Stangmode seems like a great guy, but it doesn't appear he understands how to turn a wrench or the mechanical side of Hulk. I feel he needs to get more familiar with his engine and transmission setup including cooling tanks. He loves to race and sometimes forgets car needs to cool down between runs. He also apparently forgets to monitor his gauges. When he was ask to hot lap at Pocono racetrack. He just couldn't say no. Why do pro-racers run fans to cool their engine between runs. Running a Hot lap on a dragstrip isn't smart, but it's not like running the straight away at 170 mph back to back at Pocono international Raceway. I hope your wrong about him needing a new block, but I guess the story will be told at teardown. Great informative video and finding out that the cooler pump is defective could be an issue that could become a legal issues depending on if it's proven to have created engine failures. Racing is expensive and if you run weekly. You need the cash on hand to add new mods and repair breakage. I have to add that I've noticed religion has become a big part of your life. Something to be proud of. Good luck and be safe with your beautiful Stang. Watching you wrench your own car. When you talk about mechanical issues. I listen.
Valid feedback and concerns but couple of things: Stangmode is not a mechanic and he trusts his builds to best people so a lot of times he operates on info those people provide him. Also, yes, he "hot lapped" Hulk but (if you paid attention to his video), his IATs very looking good before the hot run, his ice tank was good and he had nitrous that does bring temps down. We don't know exactly what happened yet but an extra run in 70F weather should not kill a built block. Hopefully, we will get to the bottom of it and see which component didn't perform as it was supposed to.
@@darkvader_s650 I agree that he's not a mechanic or am I. But when I have an engine built I research and ask many questions regarding the parts being used and often I install them myself or at least become involved. To blow up a newly rebuilt engine this fast. Something had to fail internally or externally like the cooler pump . Another thing I find important is keeping an eye on my gauges. Drag racing or should I say most automotive racing is expensive. Basic items like axels, rear ends, drive shafts have cost me a few dollars over the years. I will be interesting finding out what caused the failure. I always wish him the best. Two engines in this short of time is not the norm for a street style racer. Class cars often run a full season using one engine with teardowns for inspection. Really hope he gets it figured out.
Stangmode already has everything tore down so he can't check for air pockets in the lines but I guess he can still check out the pump to see if it's working properly.
cant run pumps with the outlet below, unless there is an air bleeder on top. the air easily stays in the pump housing and prevents suction, even when the waterline is above the pump. either clock the outlet so it is on top, or drill and tap the top to fit a 1/8 fitting and run that back to the tank. This is definitely an install error. the pump is fine as it kicks back in when you manage to get the air pocket out. that loud sound is normal to hear in an airlock and wont have damaged the pump, not yet at least.
Edelbrock Stage 1 here on a 2019 GT. For the first time ever I saw temps at 145 after some pulls and then letting it sit while I filmed. I got called out and jumped in the car to make another pull. Noticed the 145 and still made the pull... which I probably shouldn't have. 5 minutes of highway driving and the temps were back down to 85. I think I'm going to make changes to my nGauge to have the LEDs light up Yellow, then Red at certain IAT temps. That way I'll get an instant notification to shut her down.
Black Mamba’s Odín is in my engine bay and it’ll be tuned by Wengerd as well. I have the VMP under hood ice tank for my build- Hopefully I will not join this bad luck club and that we all can enjoy our cars they way they were made to be enjoyed…😅 With that said, both Zander13 and Stangmode have been awesome mentors/ friends to me in my build process - y’all subscribe to these good gents! 👍🏾👍🏾
Alex, the great thing about you my brother is how much hands-on experience you personally you have with your builds and all the issues, successes, and awareness that is associated with high end builds. I admire Stangmode's successes and failures. I also admire your friendship as I admire you and him as a fan and fellow hotrodder. Stangmode needs to takes some awareness tips and get more involved with troubleshooting issues and his builds personally--relying on all these different different builders and vendors with the latest and greatest stuff without the field time, thorough installation and testing should raise some big flags! Just because someone says their shit is the best when it was released a month a go should raise that flag--Stick with the proven field mods and hopefully, it will save you $30K or more...
Great video buddy. I know his engine is out already but Have stangmode take his lines that go to the supercharger and loop them together creating a Closed loop system. Fill the tank and test the issue that way to replicate as if it were hooked up to the blower.
Safety is always First... good catch on IATs! IMO, it seems that you are having more of an air issue than a pump issue. As the pump is powered it starts to run, but the pump is experiencing cavitation, until the head of air is removed thus returning circulation. Suggest thoroughly bleeding the system of all air entrapment, check routing of lines, reroute lines as needed & remove as many fittings from the coolant lines, ESPECIALLY the 90° on pump inlet. Could it be pump? Not impossible. Good luck, any questions lmk
Sorry, anybody that works with fluid pumps could tell you that is a crappy design for a vehicle. The pump is cavitating, that is that sound. Its purely a result of the design of your system. Every time your car moves, that suction port can be exposed to air, that white froth is from the cavitation. The pumps suction cannot ever be exposed to air, and without a degas bottle, that pump will not come back, unless you perform your "cpr". I would never use that setup in my car, without a flow switch that kills fuel or gives you an indicator light warning.......that setup will fail regardless of the pump you use. Check out an OEM setup, they understand this simple principle.
@@Zander13Productions brother install can be a pain but once setup it's just a relief not having to worry about ice, air pockets, or high iats. I've never seen my temps over 135 during back to back pulls in Texas heat.
@@Zander13Productions the drag unit killer chiller is $1100 and the already welded high side line is like $100. Since you work with lethal performance give them a shout they are a dealer for Kincaid. But for the high side line you need to call Kincaid. Also I got a buddy that has the pnr tank combo with killer chiller and the guys iat2 stay lower temp longer than mine.
Is there an additive you can put in when you put water in it to keep the pump conditioned .... ?? Because that pump sounded like it needs a shot of grease .... Can't wait to see what you find out what the problem is ... thanx for the vid and all that you do .. peace
All that noise from the pump doesn't sound correct at all. Something is not right for sure, good thing you caught it. I put a 2013 GT500 HE pump on my supercharged 06 bracket racer. Makes my degas tank bubble like a hot tub there is so much flow. I'd be real nervous to drive with your pump acting up like it is now. Good luck on resolving the issue.
You can't have ANY air in the tank or lines. On the very first shift all the water in the tank will slosh and you'll instantly suck in an air bubble then all the water in the lines will move to level out. Add a tube inside the tank to pull from the bottom center of the tank. Add a reservoir tank that's as tall as possible to eliminate air bubbles from being sucked into the pump. Ideally the pump would be inside the tank like a fuel pump is, in a lower indentation.
Great find Alex. I would think there is more to it than the pump failing if that’s what happened. At Pocono there’s a lot of cool down time before you get back to the lanes so his start iat’s should of been decent. The ice tank is great but it’s not going to lower temps by over 100*….With 239* being the end result something else must of happened. We’ll find out soon hopefully so this can possibly be avoided again!
Same here...everyone always makes fun of me or says I am paranoid.....this is why!! Anything can break or happen.... try to catch what you can to eliminate what you can! More gauges= more better, lol
Tank sloshing losing prime,outlet on tank should be coming out the bottom of tank,not the side,design flaw. I think the pump is fine or damaged from cavitation by sucking air.
Sounds like a few good ideas in the comments. I think what is happening is when you kill the power to the pump it's back flowing and pulling in air. To fix that you would need a check valve coming in and going out. The only way I can figure out how this could happen is if the car is parked on uneven ground with not enough water in the tank.
I've seen things like this in other apps, u could have ran the pump "dry" with hitting bumps causing air pockets little by little pumps hate air and will start to brake from the friction. Just a guess but the trunk with wheel hop or anything causing foam or bubbles to reach the pump might mess them up. Not saying it's the case bc you'd think the manufacturer would test the whole trunk location out b4 full send. GL, sounds like the pump is on its way out tho, ive heard that exact same noise b4.
My IAT's are consistently 50 degrees over air temp. Temps go down on throttle but normally IAT's are 130 to 140 on a 80 degree day. I do have just the stock roush HE. I have the in tank pump that feeds the same pump you have and the in tank pump can't keep up so it pumps and stops. I think when I go triple HE my Temps should drop.
I had the same thought.. that inlet tube is pretty low on the pump too so if air gets in its gonna put more stress on it. can you turn it sideways so the inlet is on top but still under the reservoir? Watch some jayztwocents videos on AIO coolers.. same concept
Zander13......From what I could see in your video (maybe just the camera angle view makes this look this way), check the pump inlet grade from tank outlet to pump inlet....it looks as if your pump's inlet grade is higher than the tank's outlet port which will cause that pump (impeller pump) to cavitate due to insufficient liquid column head weight, foam up & lose prime....especially if the liquid temps go up (liquid becomes less dense at higher temps.....the foaming on the liquid's surface is a telltale sign of cavitation). May only need to either sump the pump or raise the tank to increase liquid column head weight to pump inlet to sufficiently load the pump impeller to stop the cavitation & maintain prime. A suggestion to consider...........
On my 03 cobra I had a measure pump that failed twice . I went back to the stock pump . No pump failures for 70k miles . I also have a morose ice tank in the under hood battery well . The factory pump is the lowest component in the system . Your system, my system is not airless meaning that cap on the Tank is vented . As long as the pump is the lowest component it will always self prime . I always wondered as the ice melted ... not having a screen .... could a chunk of ice jam the pump ? I have learned that ford performance and factory parts are always more dependable and better engineered especially if they came on the car originally . Because they have to live up to the warranty. I do think killer chiller is my next step .... no moving parts !!! Dodge uses a OEM version on the hellcats . Of course pushing the limits well..... You know ....its nobody's fault but our own !!! LOL !!! TK
It was 100% a tune problem. The tune didn't pull timing from high iats. The knock sensor pulled timing when the engine started destroying itself. It's obvious his heat exchanger pump failed or air was in the system which caused the high iat2 temps but any good tuner sets a car to pull timing and go rich to save the engine if that happens. His log showed niether.
Just wondering, if my Roush has a pump ? If so I need to learn where it is and start paying attention to my dash while driving . Thanks for the information , as always you give great advice. I’m looking forward to seeing you at NMRA event soon . J
@@primofx2sport I’ll have to start listening for it . I’m new to having a Supercharged car . I already know how to use the cool down feature in between runs at the track . I’m hoping this will come in handy at the track in a few weeks. Any tips on supercharged engines I can get are most appreciated. J
Wow that is very crazy, it does look like found the true reason why IAT's got so damn high that quickly. Just seeing yours doing that in the video is bad news for that pump manufacture. Pump like that should not fail that quickly in short period you had it. Definitely Stangmode should check it.
I have same tank a little different on how I have mine setup but have had no issues with my temps and I’m running 50/50. In stop traffic I don’t go pass 115. But I also have a heat extractor right above supercharger. Good luck on the issue, PNR is usually good on the pump warranty if you filled out the info on the site they tell you to go to.
I didnt have anywhere near the power in my e55 but a bad pump will ruin a motor if you dont keep track of IAT's constantly. Even with duel heat exchangers, superflow pump I had IAT issues. I'm not sure why no one runs inner chillers on there supercharged mustangs, maybe it cant work with that set up but running a innerchiller will keep IAT's way down. On any forced induction car cooling is number 1 priority since the amount of boost created just generates tons of heat.
Good video and topic Alex. I thought the same. It must be related to some issue with the air to water intercooler system. At least I can't see how it chould be an L&M related issue. It is not like these guys haven't build a coyote based engine 1-2 before!. Stuff like this makes me 2nd cause my desire to get a PD blower for my street driven only 5.0 Mustang where you want to lean on the thottle without having to watch out for the IAT's Now I hate the off throttle sound of a centrifugal blowers. At least with an vent to atmosphere BOV. But they have many benefits over PD as for run cooler, more efficient, less complexity with it's air to air system and you run stock throttle body for good driveability. Ok, they don't give as much torque at lower rpm's. But coyote's especially manual 15-17 onea with 3.73 gears. They rev' so fast you are always there in the higher part of the rev range anyway. Also I would assume a centri would be a good fit for 10r80cars. After all most street stuff is roll racing so in those scenarios. Air to air works fine and the low end punch isn't as big of a factor. Also worth mentioning. Can the low end torque of a TVS realy ever been put to the ground in a rear wheel drive car unless unless condition are perfect as for road condition,and tire and air temp? I doubt here in Iceland where it get max 60-65F few days of year usually below 50-60. I can find any low speed traction( drag radials or not ) on the street. And I doubt I would really ever see the benefit of having air to water intercooling over conventional air to air.
Comes down to user error in regards to stangmode. L&M is legit. It’s not them. If you don’t know how to use nitrous and you have zero experience with it you shouldn’t be putting a 150 shot through your motor.
I think the pump is to big….over flow creating air in the impeller housing…otherwise the hose is to small for the volume of water moving through it….so get a smaller lump or slow the pump you have down….don’t think you can do that…..plus all those 90 digress turns in the hoses are very bad for flow….my 2 cents
Yeah, these stories just push me further away from boosting my GT350R. Fast and unreliable, or slow and reliable, it’s a hard decision. Glad your motor is ok. 🇺🇸
Thats a good heads up for Stangmode Battle. That is something he should look into which may have cause his engine to blow up again, cause that engine was rated for 1500 horsepower, but one thing I don't understand is with his set up, why would he add NOS? Thats what dont make any sense to me
As a mechanic myself, I'll say this, petrol boils at 70 Degrees Celsius, E85 boils at 78 to 80 C. As someone who's been in the automotive industry for over 20 years and having been in performance workshops, the tuners should know this. Period. No ifs, no buts, no fucken maybes. 239f is 115c. That's WELLLLLLL beyond boiling point. That fact that this was ignored, and no safety parameters where tuned in for fuel temps, is beyond fucking stupid. If your IAT's are at 239f, or well beyond 200f, and when you mix fuel with that, you're literally moving beyond the safe thresholds of the mix. Fuel is meant to be a coolant as well as an ignition source. The secondary issue is the super heating of the intake port into the cylinder. Once it reaches a certain point, and the delivery source of your fuel and air is stupidly hot, its not going to bring temps down, as its basically incubating the heat. when your mix is well beyond its safe limits, and no safety parameters are putting it in limp mode, well, it's shown its ugly head. It's should have had a limiter for anything over 150f for fuel and similarly for intake.
With all due respect, Stangmode has a history of hotlapping back to back to back on a regular basis with all of his vehicles. It was only a matter of time before his issues started to show up. He’s been getting lucky for a while now.
Will all the respect, you are not correct. Hulk makes a pass at poconos and then sits with fans in the garage for at least 30-45min while we check logs, record content, talk to people and etc. Mamba does two passes at a time tops (usually one, two is extremely rare occasion) before it goes on timeout and sits untill it cools down (Odin does run hot). I say it from the perspective of a person who actually supports those cars at events and as concerned about them as everybody else. As for luck - it usually doesn't get you that far tbh, especially in racing. We all humans, we make decisions on information available to us at the moment (whether it comes from gauges, mechanic, tuner or whoever) so tbh, I would probably run the car second time as well, looking at 90 degrees IAT, knowing about built motor, NOS and ice tank and also knowing that car feels healthy and there is nothing suspicious in the logs (checked them after each pass).
These aftermarket companies don't make their pumps up to OEM standards. I've heard about the same type of failures from meth pumps. Makes me nervous about mine
Have a 2016 GT with a Roush super charger not as advanced as yours but all the power and speed I need my problem is I don't know a lot about sc mine had no paper work with the car so not sure when it was installed I bought the car used in May who ever had it had modified it ie... Carbon fiber hood with plexiglass hole to show sc also had those dopey round taillights which I have since replaced with tri bars also have added hood struts and new wing so any advice you could give me on sc would be appreciated I doubt it is tuned because as I said earlier nothing came with the car Thanks in advance
Anybody know which Supercharger is cooler stock between the VMP Odin, Roush and the Whipple? I want to get one for my 2018 but undecided, I just want it to be fast and reliable not trying to break records or anything. I’m happy with 700-800HP.
That's a horrible design. The pump should be lower than the reservoir. That would insure head pressure to the pump. And in such an important system why is there no pressure or flow guage indication.
I would have a new npt bung tig welded in the bottom of the tank and mount the pump under the trunk below the tank. That way the pump will gravity feed on the suction side 'electric pumps are notorious for being poor pullers and great pushers.
Also the temp you posted on your digital dash, does the odin kit wire setup change the reading from iat1 to iat2? Because inlet air temp is iat1, temp entering intake tube.
E85, meth or 50/50 with a centrifugal and iats never get past 120and get colder down to 70-80 during the pull. Interchilllers are nice but meth cools iat during the run best, adds octane and cools cylinder temps which is the real cause of detonation better. Only use meth for cooling and octane never for fueling so if a pump goes out your self brother.
You are definitely getting air into your system. I don’t believe that it is a wiring or pump failure. Find out why your getting air into system and you should be okay!
If I were fabricating the system I would have the bung feeding the pump coming out of the bottom of the tank with the pump underneath the floorboard with baffles in the tank to limit sloshing. Not entirely foolproof, but probably best case scenario.
@@Zander13Productions they should be gear pumps so it can always get prime. A centrifugal pump is more efficient tho, but can loose prime easily so...🤷🏻♂️
Great investigative video. This should not happen duh. Got to get to the bottom of this. Have you reached out to pump manufacturer? You should not have to do all that CPR on the pump!
239 degrees is spicy hot for IAT! Glad you could catch the issue.
Good catch!! Get that pump lower in the trunk like we discussed and I think that will help with the issues.
Zander you are a good friend checking for Stangmode.
Darrel tuned my car as well and he pulls a shitload of timing when the IAT's go up which saved me along with meth injection.
Always a good thing to be honest. I’d rather loose power than an engine from hot IATs
Yeah Daryle does a great job of keeping our motors alive
Yea he told me he had it setup to start pulling timing at 140°.
Maybe check valves and vent can stop any air bubbles that lock up the pump flow. 🤔
What do all the ppl do that don't have ice tanks? Why are you guys seeing such high IATs? Is it an engine cooling issue?
Stangmode seems like a great guy, but it doesn't appear he understands how to turn a wrench or the mechanical side of Hulk. I feel he needs to get more familiar with his engine and transmission setup including cooling tanks. He loves to race and sometimes forgets car needs to cool down between runs. He also apparently forgets to monitor his gauges. When he was ask to hot lap at Pocono racetrack. He just couldn't say no. Why do pro-racers run fans to cool their engine between runs. Running a Hot lap on a dragstrip isn't smart, but it's not like running the straight away at 170 mph back to back at Pocono international Raceway. I hope your wrong about him needing a new block, but I guess the story will be told at teardown. Great informative video and finding out that the cooler pump is defective could be an issue that could become a legal issues depending on if it's proven to have created engine failures. Racing is expensive and if you run weekly. You need the cash on hand to add new mods and repair breakage. I have to add that I've noticed religion has become a big part of your life. Something to be proud of. Good luck and be safe with your beautiful Stang. Watching you wrench your own car. When you talk about mechanical issues. I listen.
Valid feedback and concerns but couple of things: Stangmode is not a mechanic and he trusts his builds to best people so a lot of times he operates on info those people provide him. Also, yes, he "hot lapped" Hulk but (if you paid attention to his video), his IATs very looking good before the hot run, his ice tank was good and he had nitrous that does bring temps down. We don't know exactly what happened yet but an extra run in 70F weather should not kill a built block. Hopefully, we will get to the bottom of it and see which component didn't perform as it was supposed to.
@@darkvader_s650 I agree that he's not a mechanic or am I. But when I have an engine built I research and ask many questions regarding the parts being used and often I install them myself or at least become involved. To blow up a newly rebuilt engine this fast. Something had to fail internally or externally like the cooler pump . Another thing I find important is keeping an eye on my gauges. Drag racing or should I say most automotive racing is expensive. Basic items like axels, rear ends, drive shafts have cost me a few dollars over the years. I will be interesting finding out what caused the failure. I always wish him the best. Two engines in this short of time is not the norm for a street style racer. Class cars often run a full season using one engine with teardowns for inspection. Really hope he gets it figured out.
You're a good guy Zander.👍🏽
Thanks
Stangmode already has everything tore down so he can't check for air pockets in the lines but I guess he can still check out the pump to see if it's working properly.
cant run pumps with the outlet below, unless there is an air bleeder on top. the air easily stays in the pump housing and prevents suction, even when the waterline is above the pump. either clock the outlet so it is on top, or drill and tap the top to fit a 1/8 fitting and run that back to the tank. This is definitely an install error. the pump is fine as it kicks back in when you manage to get the air pocket out. that loud sound is normal to hear in an airlock and wont have damaged the pump, not yet at least.
True story
Glad you caught that when you did! Now I'm curious what is causing that! That's the set up I was wanting? Lol
Good that you caught it early. Stay Blessed Sir
🙏🙏
Edelbrock Stage 1 here on a 2019 GT. For the first time ever I saw temps at 145 after some pulls and then letting it sit while I filmed. I got called out and jumped in the car to make another pull. Noticed the 145 and still made the pull... which I probably shouldn't have. 5 minutes of highway driving and the temps were back down to 85. I think I'm going to make changes to my nGauge to have the LEDs light up Yellow, then Red at certain IAT temps. That way I'll get an instant notification to shut her down.
Black Mamba’s Odín is in my engine bay and it’ll be tuned by Wengerd as well. I have the VMP under hood ice tank for my build- Hopefully I will not join this bad luck club and that we all can enjoy our cars they way they were made to be enjoyed…😅 With that said, both Zander13 and Stangmode have been awesome mentors/ friends to me in my build process - y’all subscribe to these good gents! 👍🏾👍🏾
🙏🙏
Alex, the great thing about you my brother is how much hands-on experience you personally you have with your builds and all the issues, successes, and awareness that is associated with high end builds. I admire Stangmode's successes and failures. I also admire your friendship as I admire you and him as a fan and fellow hotrodder. Stangmode needs to takes some awareness tips and get more involved with troubleshooting issues and his builds personally--relying on all these different different builders and vendors with the latest and greatest stuff without the field time, thorough installation and testing should raise some big flags! Just because someone says their shit is the best when it was released a month a go should raise that flag--Stick with the proven field mods and hopefully, it will save you $30K or more...
Great video buddy. I know his engine is out already but Have stangmode take his lines that go to the supercharger and loop them together creating a Closed loop system. Fill the tank and test the issue that way to replicate as if it were hooked up to the blower.
Safety is always First... good catch on IATs! IMO, it seems that you are having more of an air issue than a pump issue. As the pump is powered it starts to run, but the pump is experiencing cavitation, until the head of air is removed thus returning circulation. Suggest thoroughly bleeding the system of all air entrapment, check routing of lines, reroute lines as needed & remove as many fittings from the coolant lines, ESPECIALLY the 90° on pump inlet.
Could it be pump? Not impossible. Good luck, any questions lmk
Sorry, anybody that works with fluid pumps could tell you that is a crappy design for a vehicle. The pump is cavitating, that is that sound. Its purely a result of the design of your system. Every time your car moves, that suction port can be exposed to air, that white froth is from the cavitation. The pumps suction cannot ever be exposed to air, and without a degas bottle, that pump will not come back, unless you perform your "cpr". I would never use that setup in my car, without a flow switch that kills fuel or gives you an indicator light warning.......that setup will fail regardless of the pump you use. Check out an OEM setup, they understand this simple principle.
Maybe move the pump lower so it stays primed better or tank up.
For a upgraded cooling mod even 120 cruising is unacceptable. Killer chiller FTW 🙌🙌🙌.
I need one
@@Zander13Productions brother install can be a pain but once setup it's just a relief not having to worry about ice, air pockets, or high iats. I've never seen my temps over 135 during back to back pulls in Texas heat.
@@primofx2sport how much did it cost
@@Zander13Productions Not more than those engines that blow... About $2000 for interchiller and Killer chiller is cheaper..
@@Zander13Productions the drag unit killer chiller is $1100 and the already welded high side line is like $100. Since you work with lethal performance give them a shout they are a dealer for Kincaid. But for the high side line you need to call Kincaid. Also I got a buddy that has the pnr tank combo with killer chiller and the guys iat2 stay lower temp longer than mine.
Is there an additive you can put in when you put water in it to keep the pump conditioned .... ?? Because that pump sounded like it needs a shot of grease ....
Can't wait to see what you find out what the problem is ... thanx for the vid and all that you do .. peace
All that noise from the pump doesn't sound correct at all. Something is not right for sure, good thing you caught it. I put a 2013 GT500 HE pump on my supercharged 06 bracket racer. Makes my degas tank bubble like a hot tub there is so much flow. I'd be real nervous to drive with your pump acting up like it is now. Good luck on resolving the issue.
looks like you need to add a water flow meter to your system to make sure it is always operating the way it should be.
That’s exactly what I posted on his last video. No way the temps spike like that only from heat soak. Had to be a pump failure.
You can't have ANY air in the tank or lines. On the very first shift all the water in the tank will slosh and you'll instantly suck in an air bubble then all the water in the lines will move to level out. Add a tube inside the tank to pull from the bottom center of the tank. Add a reservoir tank that's as tall as possible to eliminate air bubbles from being sucked into the pump. Ideally the pump would be inside the tank like a fuel pump is, in a lower indentation.
Great find Alex. I would think there is more to it than the pump failing if that’s what happened. At Pocono there’s a lot of cool down time before you get back to the lanes so his start iat’s should of been decent.
The ice tank is great but it’s not going to lower temps by over 100*….With 239* being the end result something else must of happened.
We’ll find out soon hopefully so this can possibly be avoided again!
Damn good thing you actually watch your gauges brother! I think I watch my gauges more then the road lol!! 😆
Absolutely 100%
Same here...everyone always makes fun of me or says I am paranoid.....this is why!! Anything can break or happen.... try to catch what you can to eliminate what you can! More gauges= more better, lol
Tank sloshing losing prime,outlet on tank should be coming out the bottom of tank,not the side,design flaw. I think the pump is fine or damaged from cavitation by sucking air.
Sounds like a few good ideas in the comments. I think what is happening is when you kill the power to the pump it's back flowing and pulling in air. To fix that you would need a check valve coming in and going out. The only way I can figure out how this could happen is if the car is parked on uneven ground with not enough water in the tank.
I've seen things like this in other apps, u could have ran the pump "dry" with hitting bumps causing air pockets little by little pumps hate air and will start to brake from the friction. Just a guess but the trunk with wheel hop or anything causing foam or bubbles to reach the pump might mess them up. Not saying it's the case bc you'd think the manufacturer would test the whole trunk location out b4 full send. GL, sounds like the pump is on its way out tho, ive heard that exact same noise b4.
Tank might have been to low and got a little sloshing from the pulls and sucked up a little air. Might have cooked the pump a little.
My IAT's are consistently 50 degrees over air temp. Temps go down on throttle but normally IAT's are 130 to 140 on a 80 degree day. I do have just the stock roush HE. I have the in tank pump that feeds the same pump you have and the in tank pump can't keep up so it pumps and stops. I think when I go triple HE my Temps should drop.
You need the vmp triple pass heat exchanger
Have you thought about relocating the pump under the floorboards to insure that no air is entering the system?
I had the same thought.. that inlet tube is pretty low on the pump too so if air gets in its gonna put more stress on it. can you turn it sideways so the inlet is on top but still under the reservoir? Watch some jayztwocents videos on AIO coolers.. same concept
Good vid... Exactly why I went with Procharger. Not a worry in the world with IATs coupled with a good tune and a 170 thermostat.
You should get a boat bilge pump, I think they would be far more reliable, and have way more flow.
Yip I agree
Zander13......From what I could see in your video (maybe just the camera angle view makes this look this way), check the pump inlet grade from tank outlet to pump inlet....it looks as if your pump's inlet grade is higher than the tank's outlet port which will cause that pump (impeller pump) to cavitate due to insufficient liquid column head weight, foam up & lose prime....especially if the liquid temps go up (liquid becomes less dense at higher temps.....the foaming on the liquid's surface is a telltale sign of cavitation). May only need to either sump the pump or raise the tank to increase liquid column head weight to pump inlet to sufficiently load the pump impeller to stop the cavitation & maintain prime. A suggestion to consider...........
Absolutely. I was re looking at that today. I plan to relocate mine further down as much as possible
Install a flow switch that makes a light come on the dash when flow stops kind of like they use for the meth injection flow
On my 03 cobra I had a measure pump that failed twice . I went back to the stock pump . No pump failures for 70k miles . I also have a morose ice tank in the under hood battery well .
The factory pump is the lowest component in the system . Your system, my system is not airless meaning that cap on the
Tank is vented . As long as the pump is the lowest component it will always self prime . I always wondered as the ice melted ... not having a screen .... could a chunk of ice jam the pump ? I have learned that ford performance and factory parts are always more dependable and better engineered especially if they came on the car originally .
Because they have to live up to the warranty. I do think killer chiller is my next step .... no moving parts !!!
Dodge uses a OEM version on the hellcats . Of course pushing the limits well.....
You know ....its nobody's fault but our own !!! LOL !!!
TK
It was 100% a tune problem. The tune didn't pull timing from high iats. The knock sensor pulled timing when the engine started destroying itself.
It's obvious his heat exchanger pump failed or air was in the system which caused the high iat2 temps but any good tuner sets a car to pull timing and go rich to save the engine if that happens. His log showed niether.
Who's he tuned by?
That cars failure is on stangmode... he pushed the car to the limit to the point he couldn't make 3 runs.... its not bad parts
Just wondering, if my Roush has a pump ? If so I need to learn where it is and start paying attention to my dash while driving . Thanks for the information , as always you give great advice. I’m looking forward to seeing you at NMRA event soon . J
Yes the roush has a pump. It's located tucked under the hiding tank on the passenger side by the front bumper.
@@primofx2sport Thanks I figured it might have one but wasn’t completely sure . J
@@jameshows5419 no problem. When you open the door it should power on the pump to prime. Should be able to hear it come on.
@@primofx2sport I’ll have to start listening for it . I’m new to having a Supercharged car . I already know how to use the cool down feature in between runs at the track . I’m hoping this will come in handy at the track in a few weeks. Any tips on supercharged engines I can get are most appreciated. J
Wow that is very crazy, it does look like found the true reason why IAT's got so damn high that quickly. Just seeing yours doing that in the video is bad news for that pump
manufacture. Pump like that should not fail that quickly in short period you had it. Definitely Stangmode should check it.
Great video and very informative thank you (Nick from Sydney Australia )
Easy way to check IP. Open cap and looks for circulation
I have same tank a little different on how I have mine setup but have had no issues with my temps and I’m running 50/50. In stop traffic I don’t go pass 115. But I also have a heat extractor right above supercharger. Good luck on the issue, PNR is usually good on the pump warranty if you filled out the info on the site they tell you to go to.
Which Supercharger do you have? Is it the VMP Odin as well?
@@mavricxx no I have the whipple on mine.
Definitely cavitation with all the foam. Need more head pressure, lower the pump or raise the tank solved.
I didnt have anywhere near the power in my e55 but a bad pump will ruin a motor if you dont keep track of IAT's constantly. Even with duel heat exchangers, superflow pump I had IAT issues. I'm not sure why no one runs inner chillers on there supercharged mustangs, maybe it cant work with that set up but running a innerchiller will keep IAT's way down. On any forced induction car cooling is number 1 priority since the amount of boost created just generates tons of heat.
I think. That I would run a 2 pump system. One upfront and one at the tank.
Good video and topic Alex.
I thought the same. It must be related to some issue with the air to water intercooler system. At least I can't see how it chould be an L&M related issue. It is not like these guys haven't build a coyote based engine 1-2 before!.
Stuff like this makes me 2nd cause my desire to get a PD blower for my street driven only 5.0 Mustang where you want to lean on the thottle without having to watch out for the IAT's
Now I hate the off throttle sound of a centrifugal blowers. At least with an vent to atmosphere BOV.
But they have many benefits over PD as for run cooler, more efficient, less complexity with it's air to air system and you run stock throttle body for good driveability.
Ok, they don't give as much torque at lower rpm's. But coyote's especially manual 15-17 onea with 3.73 gears. They rev' so fast you are always there in the higher part of the rev range anyway. Also I would assume a centri would be a good fit for 10r80cars.
After all most street stuff is roll racing so in those scenarios. Air to air works fine and the low end punch isn't as big of a factor.
Also worth mentioning. Can the low end torque of a TVS realy ever been put to the ground in a rear wheel drive car unless unless condition are perfect as for road condition,and tire and air temp?
I doubt here in Iceland where it get max 60-65F few days of year usually below 50-60.
I can find any low speed traction( drag radials or not ) on the street. And I doubt I would really ever see the benefit of having air to water intercooling over conventional air to air.
Good catch. Not many people catch that as they don't check IAT
you got to change your YT handle to Wengerd Perf or something bro so everyone knows the man is in the house lol
🙏😉
Just glad nothing bad happened brother
I imagine if you slame in the brakes it could slosh the water forward and introduce air into the system
Very possible
Comes down to user error in regards to stangmode. L&M is legit. It’s not them. If you don’t know how to use nitrous and you have zero experience with it you shouldn’t be putting a 150 shot through your motor.
I think the pump is to big….over flow creating air in the impeller housing…otherwise the hose is to small for the volume of water moving through it….so get a smaller lump or slow the pump you have down….don’t think you can do that…..plus all those 90 digress turns in the hoses are very bad for flow….my 2 cents
Yeah, these stories just push me further away from boosting my GT350R. Fast and unreliable, or slow and reliable, it’s a hard decision. Glad your motor is ok. 🇺🇸
I'd be thrilled with a stock GT 350R.
Procharger w/stage 2 intercooler and a 170 thermostat Lund or PB tune and be done with it or a turbo setup.
Even stock and slow they’re unreliable
@@agaad22 5.0 FTW
@@agaad22 Truth
Thats a good heads up for Stangmode Battle. That is something he should look into which may have cause his engine to blow up again, cause that engine was rated for 1500 horsepower, but one thing I don't understand is with his set up, why would he add NOS? Thats what dont make any sense to me
Stangmode just uploaded a video where Ken verifies everything you said here. In stangmode's latest video it starts at the 11:40 mark.
As a mechanic myself, I'll say this, petrol boils at 70 Degrees Celsius, E85 boils at 78 to 80 C. As someone who's been in the automotive industry for over 20 years and having been in performance workshops, the tuners should know this. Period. No ifs, no buts, no fucken maybes. 239f is 115c. That's WELLLLLLL beyond boiling point. That fact that this was ignored, and no safety parameters where tuned in for fuel temps, is beyond fucking stupid. If your IAT's are at 239f, or well beyond 200f, and when you mix fuel with that, you're literally moving beyond the safe thresholds of the mix. Fuel is meant to be a coolant as well as an ignition source. The secondary issue is the super heating of the intake port into the cylinder. Once it reaches a certain point, and the delivery source of your fuel and air is stupidly hot, its not going to bring temps down, as its basically incubating the heat. when your mix is well beyond its safe limits, and no safety parameters are putting it in limp mode, well, it's shown its ugly head. It's should have had a limiter for anything over 150f for fuel and similarly for intake.
Why would you do a pull at 130 IAT? 130 is the stopping point.
With all due respect, Stangmode has a history of hotlapping back to back to back on a regular basis with all of his vehicles. It was only a matter of time before his issues started to show up. He’s been getting lucky for a while now.
That’s also true yes
Mayb tune
Will all the respect, you are not correct. Hulk makes a pass at poconos and then sits with fans in the garage for at least 30-45min while we check logs, record content, talk to people and etc. Mamba does two passes at a time tops (usually one, two is extremely rare occasion) before it goes on timeout and sits untill it cools down (Odin does run hot). I say it from the perspective of a person who actually supports those cars at events and as concerned about them as everybody else. As for luck - it usually doesn't get you that far tbh, especially in racing. We all humans, we make decisions on information available to us at the moment (whether it comes from gauges, mechanic, tuner or whoever) so tbh, I would probably run the car second time as well, looking at 90 degrees IAT, knowing about built motor, NOS and ice tank and also knowing that car feels healthy and there is nothing suspicious in the logs (checked them after each pass).
@@darkvader_s650 💪
May have a bad bearing in the circulating pump.
These aftermarket companies don't make their pumps up to OEM standards. I've heard about the same type of failures from meth pumps. Makes me nervous about mine
Should of went with a Sai Li 6 row intercooler to avoid those problems and save weight
Have a 2016 GT with a Roush super charger not as advanced as yours but all the power and speed I need my problem is I don't know a lot about sc mine had no paper work with the car so not sure when it was installed I bought the car used in May who ever had it had modified it ie... Carbon fiber hood with plexiglass hole to show sc also had those dopey round taillights which I have since replaced with tri bars also have added hood struts and new wing so any advice you could give me on sc would be appreciated I doubt it is tuned because as I said earlier nothing came with the car Thanks in advance
50 shot of nitrous will lower some iats 😁
Anybody know which Supercharger is cooler stock between the VMP Odin, Roush and the Whipple? I want to get one for my 2018 but undecided, I just want it to be fast and reliable not trying to break records or anything. I’m happy with 700-800HP.
Makes total sense, good info.
That's a horrible design. The pump should be lower than the reservoir. That would insure head pressure to the pump. And in such an important system why is there no pressure or flow guage indication.
Do you have a screen to keep the ice out of the pump?
There is
I would have a new npt bung tig welded in the bottom of the tank and mount the pump under the trunk below the tank. That way the pump will gravity feed on the suction side 'electric pumps are notorious for being poor pullers and great pushers.
That's rough I'm glad you figured it out 🤙 🇺🇸
What is that R2-D2 sound??
Sounds like the pump is sucking air from somewhere? is there a way to vent that pump?
Only way to vent is with lid open. And it does have a vent valve too
@@Zander13Productions need to find out if the pump is pulling in air from somewhere. may not be a bad pump. but could be just getting airbound.
@@chillwill0330 yes. I Definitely need to spend some time on it. I’d hate to replace it
Also the temp you posted on your digital dash, does the odin kit wire setup change the reading from iat1 to iat2? Because inlet air temp is iat1, temp entering intake tube.
Those are the blower temps with their sensor.
Ahhh ok so it changes your iat1 to iat2. On my dash the inlet air temp isn't post blower.
@@primofx2sport These use a iat splice harness so IAT 1 on the cluster is actually reading charge air temps.
@@Wengerdperformance ok that's what I figured. Wish the roush were setup that way. Makes things more simple than needing a datalog reader.
Stangmode blew cause the dunce used nitrous with 93 on a big power blower car
E85, meth or 50/50 with a centrifugal and iats never get past 120and get colder down to 70-80 during the pull. Interchilllers are nice but meth cools iat during the run best, adds octane and cools cylinder temps which is the real cause of detonation better. Only use meth for cooling and octane never for fueling so if a pump goes out your self brother.
And how do you know stangmode suffered IP failure
How does a car spraying nitrous get 239 iat2s?
Like we spoke about today the killer chiller is your friend
😉
Barra 4 litre 6 cylinder. Good for 2500 RWHP.
It seem you have a fail pump or a air lock you had for a while on and off.
Bosch IP always worked for me
Bingo,, I think you found the culprit!! 💯‼️
The suction line is to high in the tank you stop short water go’s forward line sucks air
How can I fix that if it was welded that way
What should normal iat temps range from?!
I would call that poor tank design and pump placement....
That sucks to hear I’ve been thinking about getting one.
They work fine. Don’t let this scare you. I just need to relocate the pump down a little more
You are definitely getting air into your system. I don’t believe that it is a wiring or pump failure. Find out why your getting air into system and you should be okay!
running the pump with the tank open doesn't get air in the system?
If I were fabricating the system I would have the bung feeding the pump coming out of the bottom of the tank with the pump underneath the floorboard with baffles in the tank to limit sloshing. Not entirely foolproof, but probably best case scenario.
Also do the ice tanks have baffles? 🤔
No. I think they need them though
Or is there a filter before the pump? 🤔
No filter other than the metal one with holes in it
@@Zander13Productions that’s good enough then I’m sure
Are those intercooler pumps centrifugal or gear? 🤔
🤷♂️
@@Zander13Productions they should be gear pumps so it can always get prime. A centrifugal pump is more efficient tho, but can loose prime easily so...🤷🏻♂️
So basically if you supercharge your mustang, you're gonna blow the engine within 10,000 miles
Nope
My odin actually gets cooler during a run...ni ice tank either🤷♂️
First of all you are on a 69mm pulley, which is the limit to begin with. Any mistakes, even the smallest on a 69mm pulley and kaboom.
It's somebody's fault, it's Fords, Chevy LS motors are so much more reliable, especially when you add power
Air locking
Take I a part
Great investigative video. This should not happen duh. Got to get to the bottom of this. Have you reached out to pump manufacturer? You should not have to do all that CPR on the pump!
I’m right be side your car at da post office it sound sexy asf😩
69mm pulley. You are fcking nuts man....lol
Built motor 😉
@@Zander13Productions I have a fully built Boss Roadrunner engine and 69mm pulley still worries me, even on e85...lol
So this is a built motor
Yes
Hit the brakes...bet problem returns🤷♂️