The US Army’s new Service Rifle - The SIG SPEAR / NGSW XM5
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- The SIG SPEAR has been selected as the US Army's new Service rifle. Many people have tons of questions about the SIG SPEAR especially since it’s such a relatively new and in many ways traditional system compared to some of the other competitors in the NGSW. In today’s video we delve into the SIG SPEAR and this video will likely be the first of several that explore the new rifle of the US Military.
00:00 SIG SPEAR review begins
03:06 SIG SPEAR is now adopted
04:54 SIG SPEAR Ammunition is extremely capable
07:05 SIG SPEAR Suppressor
10:27 SIG SPEAR Handguard
14:00 SIG SPEAR Controls
15:59 Problems I foresee with the SIG SPEAR
19:57 SIG SPEAR Trigger
22:23 Final Thoughts on the SIG SPEAR
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All firearms shown are semi-automatic firing from 20 round magazines. All shooting was conducted on a closed private range.
A big thank you to Illumined Arms for lending us this weapon!!!
Can I be borrow one…asking for a friend?
Totally agree Afghan war mind set designed weapon.
@@rootbowy825 the ATF are on the way to your house ! i hope you dont have a dog
saw with no sights. let's go!
Muhahahahah
I’m a machinist at sig and take a lot of pride in the parts I’ve made for SPEAR and hearing you sing the praises of the rifle make me extremely happy. Keep up the great work!
Dang that's the job I wanted lol
One does not simply has a job that any normal man would want. :D
No u keep up the great work
Ayo all my fellow NH homies in the chat! Then again all you seacoasters are like masshole transplants 😂.
What are the tolerances at sig?
As an armed forces memeber who has terrible hearing loss for my age, i cant express how thankful I am for supressors on service rifles. With the amount training you do, this is a godsend regardless of tactical advantage.
If I remember the suppressors on these make the gun perform better than with out it as well
They need to be readily available to the general public without the whole ATF process.
@@4runnercolorado422 I have no idea why the ATF hates you guys having suppressors so much, here in Europe most rifles come with one already threaded on - it's an expectation and etiquette to use one.
@@nxxynx5039 It's because the entire existence of their agency is based on a century old bill that they are desperate to keep the general public from knowing about. They're so afraid, they don't even ask Congress to raise the price of the tax stamps, when passed it was equivalent to $4,000 current dollars (probably more with inflation lol).
@@nxxynx5039 the problem with the US is, most people usually fall into one of two camps, morons that think any gun should be able to be owned by any idiot with the cash for it, or people who have never shot a gun that think everything about them is terrifying. Funny thing is people think that paying a couple hundred bucks for a suppressor is "infringing on their rights" but nobody has any problem with a rifle that costs several thousand dollars
Good gun but need L4 traders for any good ammo
And by the time you have L4 traders, global restock is out and you can't get it, anyway.
If u know u know
And when you finally get the ammo and the weapon, you get stomped by a wild scav
@@anttikoljonen1941 on streets. Two minutes into the raid.
It’s 350k roubles not worth
Thing to note is that the m16 wasn’t an immediate home run. I’m sure they’ll learn a lot in the next few years and make adjustments where needed
Actually the M16A1 was a very good an reliable weapon system. Most jams on the M16 was always magazines. The problem in Vietnam didn't come from the M16A1. It came from the experimental version that they bought off the shelf instead of waiting for the production version to be produced.
@@maddogs1989I'd return the A1 as an official assault rifle, probably one of the best rifles ever made.
@@dobridjordjereally an A1 lower and A2 or A4 upper would be perfect
@@maddogs1989 Nah just good ole M16A1 30 round mag, birdcage flash hider, but improved sight system to be able to attach scopes and other machinery, it worked in Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Gulf war and Iraq, and sure as hell outclasses the AK platform (albeit 74 is on almost on par)
@@dobridjordje the A1 never had the birdcage that was the A2. It was the A2 in Grenada and onwards at least for the Marines and for the Army it was the A2 from 86' onwards
Am I the only one who felt strangely satisfied when he was shooting full auto with the clear mag and saw the bullets rising up?
I really liked that too
That’s what your mum said.
I was rising up too, if you know what I mean
Something else was rising up while I was watching that.
I don't understand why redditors so often feel the need for internet strangers to affirm their feelings and beliefs. Quit it, it's lame.
What an awesome preview of a future episode of forgotten weapons!
Thank you US army! Very cool!
BASED
Fake, not French enough Ian would never review
Based AF🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Gonna be better than the current standard issue, m4 troons seething.
Damnit. This made me laugh. It's a tragic possibility
This guy just killed me on Lighthouse
USEC mfs fr 😭
Something to consider, when thinking about the switch from the M14 to the M-16 with respective calibers is that something like the M249 didn’t really exist. Now that we have squad level weapons that are some thing that can be carried and sustained more easily than something like the M 60 moving back to a heavier rifleman round does kind of make sense.
I was thinking the same thing after rewatching that part of the video just now and I’m glad someone said it. With the Spear also comes the xm250 which is just a Saw on steroids. Meant to fill the same role while being lighter, able to engage at longer ranges (with 6.8), and has quick change barrels
You make a great point.
I carried the M249 and it was so cumbersome and heavy, it limited my mobility and running distance. The Spear weighs less than half what the Saw does and isn't as bulky.
The transition from the M14 to the 16 saved around four pounds for just the rifle, going from the M4 to the SAW almost triples the weight, whereas transitioning from the 7.75lb M4 to the MX7 would be similar in weight to returning to the M14.
I can advocate the change to a larger, more powerful round, but I won't have to carry it. When I served, I would have preferred the M14 to the M16.
The M249 wasn’t too bad, but it so often got assigned to the smaller guys of the platoon. If you didn’t get cursed w/ an unadjustable stock, then pop on the short barrel and it’s pretty easy to maneuver. To your point though, that run time and distance plummets.
Two thoughts cross my mind. The original post war thinking was that NATO standardisation was needed and a common single cartridge shared by all countries was ideal. That was supposed to be 7.62, until the US changed their minds and brought in 5.56 for the M16 (ironic because the UK originally pushed for .280). The UK, then stuck with 7.62, used it for riflemen (FN FAL) and machine gunners until the 1980s when they moved to 5.56.
If you bring in a 3rd new cartridge, that is going to really complicate logistics and tactics... or is the plan to phase out 7.62? Even if it is, that will take some time, and what about all the many allied NATO countries?
The other thing, is that 5.56 still has massive advantages.. you can carry 10kg of 600 rounds. The rifle platforms using it are 5kg or less. The recoil is very low, and it's much more manageable in full auto. This makes it much easier to train basic infantry to use it, especially if you have a conscript army in a time of war. I will be really surprised if 5.56 dissappears.
At least it's better than AK-12
about 5-9% of combat losses is from firearms, the rest is artillery - and US spends billions to replace fully capable M4, not the 60 years old 3 rounds per minute paladin, complete junk against Msta or Coalitsiya. Keep it up!😆 And yeah, if you are shoot - you are dead, was it M4, AK-12, XM5 or Kar98 - no matters
The AK-12 is giving you nightmares isn’t it? 😏
@@Mkvine ye
Ak12 isnt real and you cant use monkey emojies on YT apparently
Depends on the purpose
I think the greatest innovation is that it's balanced well enough to stand on the magazine floor plate. Makes photoshoots way nicer. Welcome to 2022
General's lives matter xD
Thank goodness that's the modern blue-hair problem solver.
@@denmanfite3156 blue haired people don’t wear body armor.
Thats not innovation lol tons of guns balance well on the mag.
The principle of using a higher pressure in the round to maximize the effectiveness of a shorter barrel has also been adopted by the Japanese in their updated MX10 tank.
the new optic package combined with this rifle is hella crazy. basically aims itself. put all that with the next gen nightvision theyve shown as well and the lethality range is tremendous in any condition. maybe not necessary for every infantryman but its crazy stuff. the new sig machine guns are even cooler
Russia gonna be crying when they find out America has aim bot
@@knightpal1545and they would also be crying since this weapon can penetrate body armor that they claim to “possess”
@@thekiller7994 well shooting through card board isn't that hard so what's your point?
@@knightpal1545 I’m just pointing out the fact that this rifle was made to shoot a bullet to penetrate Russian “body armor”
@@thekiller7994 I was making a joke, that came off as a little aggressive sorry there.
Looks like the starting assault rifle you get in every COD game that ends up being the most reliable and OP choice.
lets hope MW2 isn’t like that and has it that almost every gun is viable and balanced. no more of this single gun metas we’ve seen for years now.
edit: this aged terribly
Swickzy
MW2 already released, Twice,
The one we’re getting sold is…
Just fucking why?
@@Caliborino mw2 released once, and the new "mw2" game is a diffrent game than the og mw2
BrightPri
It released twice with the remaster,
I guess the reboot is it’s own series right?
Certainly with the goofy redesign of ghost and price now sounding like the great value version of himself.
But hey money right?
@@Caliborino not the mulitplayer. The mulitplayer never got rematstered only the campain
Finally an actual in depth review and not just small snip bits of shooting and rambling about how it’s gonna be another M14 blunder
Don’t listen to boomers
@@bradenmchenry995 flashbacks to 6.8 grendell
This will ultimately make the m14 look like a brilliant design in the long run.
@@blackhawk65589 6.8 SPC? Not aware of any 6.8 "Grendel" the military has looked into
It wont
Regarding training issues, look how long it took the US Army to fully adopt the M-4. Even today, most POG units still have the M-16. Even if the SIG SPEAR does become the "new" Army rifle, it will take years after that for Joes in S-1 to get them in-hand.
The 101st is getting them this month. My brigade is getting both the XM5 and the XM250
@@collins4984 good luck with your 12lb rifles and greatly reduced combat loads
@@MandatedCupcake Well when we get back from this deployment we are spending 2 weeks on the ranges to qualify on these new weapon systems. Shouldn’t be too different from the M-4 and the 249. Only difference is the weight and they both take a different caliber round so it’s more accurate and effective than the 556 NATO rounds we use. We will see though, I can’t imagine it be that much different to be honest
It is initially to be adopted by 20-25% of the armed forces personnel, mostly the combat units. Everyone else will stay with ye olde M4s for the time being.
@@ponraul1221 theyre the same weight as an M27 IAR
Great rifle. I agree with your findings as a main battle rifle. Now in my 20 years as infantry (now retired), I think that would be an awesome SDM (Squad Designated Marksman) rifle. It is lighter than the souped up M-14 they had us using for years that weighed over 14 lbs. Throw a 3-9×40 or a 4-16×50 on it and you have a great longer range weapon while still keeping that armor piercing capability within the infantry rifle squad. Just my opinion.
We have the m110 which is basically an updated sr-25. This will be helpful against A proper military, yet you know and even I know with only my 4yrs in as of right now that it won’t just be proper military. We will still have to fight an insurgency
Idk about using this as an SDM.. it has a 13.5” barrel
@@Painfulwhale360 but even the non military version of the round is getting 2800 ft/s. Wonder what it's ballistics look like out of 16 and 18?
Seems the military is going towards special forces style combat on a mass scale using intelligence as the first line of offense with the F35B's in the air, a more surgical approach rather than the suppressive fire style of old. If you know where the enemy already is and aren't walking into the unknown then the more accurate, powerful rifles will serve better. If you're just a group of soldiers without the intel and surveillance then you'll definitely want more ammo
Easily the most highly anticipated video of all time. This should have been in theaters
Finally! It is here!
I am everywhere around you. Do you not feel my *Fury* ?
The taliban wants to know when they will be getting these
@@deadboltzz5199 I will automatically disable myself if I detect the presence of a heathen operator.
@@deadboltzz5199 Taliban is just civilian talk to AL-CIA-DUH
The Montage at the beginning of each of Mike's Videos are becoming that of Legend. Great Video Gents. Big Fan of the Spear
Can't say enough good about your reviews bro. You are definitely a person I would base my purchase options from. Solid review
The fact that this rifle reaches 2800+ fps out of a 13 inch barrel is pretty amazing. Also really dig the color!
Shame the trade-off for that velocity is extreme pressures.
I wonder if the new round will have ERP projectiles, like the ones used in the m855a1 and 7.62x51mm
@@josedorsaith5261 the barrel is very thick in comparison to normal ar 10s along with other thicker components, should do just fine
The Military rounds velocity is still classified but it is more likely 3100+ fps from the 13 inch barrel.
@@jeffkenkel4257 really? Damn
SIG spent a lot of R&D on these firearms. Time for the US consumer to purchase. Create jobs.
Thank you for the video. Waiting for a while to see it being used.
I can’t wait to learn more about this weapon. I might be interested in this one for sure!
I think the army is going to use DARPA quadrupeds to mule ammo around for each battalion, which is one reason for the bulkier ammo.
Instead of doing that. The army will rely on the same beast of burden they've used for generations. The U.S. Infantryman.
No they aren't, soldiers will always be mules
@@Truthbomb918 I don't think you're looking far enough ahead. Those quadrupeds will absolutely be used.
More likey they will arm these bots and use them like they do with drones right now.
@Commie Hammer LOL yeah they are
Previously on GT: “plate carriers are more common place now, here's how to set yours up"
GT now: "Why would the government switch to an AP round with less overall ammo?"
Coincidence? I think not
Because they might use against its own citizens to enforce a mass disarmament of lawful abiding citizens.
Head, shoulders, knees and toes bro
@@TheAnonymous111111 we're just gonna add velcro to everything and strap up mags everywhere. careful not to get ammo racked as a walking tank XD
@@TheAnonymous111111 what is that referencing lol
@@sigspearthumb8856 soft points of armor
Another fantastic video lads...... absolutely brilliant channel, I love it!!
The SIG Spear is an amazing weapon machine fitted in rugged environment and fitted to special forces due to the suppressor.
I’m honestly impressed that he managed to control this gun in full auto mode so well that he makes it look as if the gun has the recoil of a 5.56. I suppose that all his experience in firearms training has paid off!
@@meta55645 Or more Likely, it's the "Recoil Mitigation System And Smuzzle Can", that reduces the felt Recoil of the weapon.
Bruh he was spec ops what did you expect
You never fired one? My DS showed us how soft the M-16 was by holding it on his groin while he pulled full auto. The recoil spring looks the same length as the original M-16 so I expect it to be smooth as butter.
@@meta55645 You never fired one? My DS showed us how soft the M-16 was by holding it on his groin while he pulled full auto. The recoil spring looks the same length as the original M-16 so I expect it to be smooth as butter.
@@johnmartin6420 Is that what they call the recoil spring now? jeez, lol. You never fired one? My DS showed us how soft the M-16 was by holding it on his groin while he pulled full auto. The recoil spring looks the same length as the original M-16 so I expect it to be smooth as butter.
I feel like the charging handle issue is something that will phase out in due time as more soldiers get a hold of the rifle and find which they prefer and they pick one and stick with it.
The introduction of the side charger was for when having issues getting the bolt unstuck as to the T handle having little leverage and possibly having to mortar it. The reason for having the T handle is training/habits, so I would guess if they did remove one it would be the T handle but it too has a small benefit of being ambi. My thoughts though would be they just keep it cause getting changes done in military equipment is a lot of processing.
@@ellysiakyoki5587 when you explain the reasoning for it, it makes a lot more sense to have both. The ambi use of it is a plus and I don't think they could remodel this to have an ambi side charger. Also, the side charger being mainly for dealing with malfunctions that the T handle just can't really handle makes sense for long and dirty deployments.
@@BionicBurke Yes I agree, the T handle has been in the training regiment for years and the ambi option gives more benefits than just for a lefty, it gives the soldier easier access if he/she has injured their arm or hand. Could also think of it like if you're in a position where you wouldn't be able to have access to the side charger. Even though the side charger handle folds in a bit the T handle is a little less protruding to have possible snags too. In the end I think its only an advantage in clearing stuck cartridges but that was the intent so it works 🤷♀️ Very excited to see more vids of it though, I like it a lot.
I understand the benefits of both. But considering how beefy the rifle is already, I wish they just picked one to save some. weight. I know that there is gonna ne some guy saying "Just suck it up. Soldiers are supposed to be strong." Those dudes never seem to understand that it just helps the military in general in the long run. Ounces equal pounds. But my first thought was also that one of the charging handles would be deleted eventually.
@@leroyatleroys having the T handle kinda does reduce the weight because if it was only the side charger then all that material that's removed where the T handle is would actually add weight. The T handle itself is nearly weightless. I understand your input but charging handles are usually a weight loss positive with the area of material removal compared to the handles weight itself.
UA-cam recommended me this video because i play tarkov and love the SIG spear
I was looking for this comment
Such a badass intro 🔥battle of the universe such a good sound track
If history is any guide, in America’s next war the soldiers will be like, “Wow, this rifle sucks in these conditions. We got any of those old M4s in storage somewhere?”
That and the Krauts will refuse to sell parts and new rifles, because they would rather lick whatever dictators' toes for a few euros.
The US Military should become independent of foreign companies and foreign designed/ made weapons.
😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
honestly even if the rifle turns out to be successful you are correct about what a shit-show new weapon system rollouts usually are.
look up the debut of the Bradley
More likely “Wow, this rifle sucks in these conditions. We got any of those old M14's in storage somewhere?”
@@martyc1533 This rifle is basically a better M14.
Between the scar and this rifle, I like the fact that most of the functionality of the old m4 still remains visible, probably to make soldiers more able to adapt!
No way bro... Lol
Personally I don't understand this ammo OR gun. Since they are still using AR-10 magazines, it seems redundant making an entire new round for "armor piercing" abilities when you can modernize the 7.62x51mm and push more pressure out of it(or just use the same 7.62); no need to reinvent the wheel. The Ruger SFAR did an amazing job keeping the AR-15 chassis with a .308 chambering. Its capable of a 30 round magazine while keeping the same layout that everyone knows. Fits the "keep it simple" assessment AND it would have saved MILLIONS of dollars in contracts that are now going towards a gun manufacturer and not some other government project, or civilian project.
@@Technie87 He said why. It's to carry more rounds.
@@Technie87 Because this ammo is more effective then the 7.62x51mm, on top of being lighter weight and allowing you to carry more of it effectively. Also, the idea of 'don't reinvent the wheel' doesn't really work with Ammo in the modern age. Every military is on the hunt for the new future round for their military processes. The same way we developed 5.56 post WW2 and the USSR came up with the 5.45 in the same time frame.
@@weeboftheleft5113 Well its more effective on papierre.
Great Video!
Binge watching your videos is a guilty pleasure of mine. You guys do a very nice job with the production. 0:48 to 0:60 the quick snap movements, suppressing a large sector alone... into the mag change at the end gave me all 2 inches my friend! I thought it displayed the versatility of this rifle well in a possible defensive posture. Looking forward to seeing the kinks worked out and getting her streamlined.
$4500?!? OUCH
Loved the M1A video as well, keep up the good work boys 🤟
The fact that the optic let's you ping positions with your squad is mind blowing 🤯
That is going to be majorly deadly
First thing that someone is going to do is draw a dick with the ping marks
And now consider the disadvantages to pinging
And while it is a "short range" RF signal, it still means a signature that can be detected intermittently for 40,000 feet due up. When you have a dozen or more of them, you give them a free gift- airstrike, artillery, whatever the flavor of the day is.
@@btglass60 there's going to be pings from everyone..
*SIG should have hired you for their promo materials. You are the only one I have seen that can handle the recoil effortlessly*
keep in mind that he's not shooting the mil spec ammo. the mil spec round's a bit hotter than the civilian market version.
@@apple_with_a_human_butt true but he is a marine though.
@@infinitespeen3092 Thought he was airforce?
@@jameslarsen5764 i just checked this, i guess he is i thought he was a marine whoops lol
What does that say about the recoil and how good of an idea it is to equip every infantryman with this rifle?
Looks like you had way to much fun filming that sick intro, great vid.
The XM5 has been renamed to the XM7 due to avoiding Trademark Issues with Colt’s Manufacturer LLC from the M5 Carbine
That’s Bullshit they should’ve made Colt change it.
I will still call it the XM5
One thing that everyone forgets is that when the military was using the M14, and during Vietnam using the M16A1, we didn't have the M249 or now the M250. These are fire team level fully automatic weapons. In a fire team (in the Marine Corps) you have fully automatic gunner (M250), an assistant gunner (M5 simi-auto), a rifleman (M5 semi-auto), and the fire team leader and grenadier (M5 and/or grenade launcher). Only one person is to have their weapon on full auto. The M4 only has a burst of three rounds, (recently switched to full auto). In any case you're not suppose to put it on those settings (burst of full auto) except when being over ran. You will always be more effective with semi-auto except at very close range (trench fighting). So the concern about full auto on the M5 is valid to a small point.
What you did miss is the additional 2 lbs for optics. Now how that new optic will help or hinder people will be found out once it gets deployed. Most new weapon systems don't survive first deployments as is. A private can break anything!!! Even unbreakable items. Where there is a will there is a way. Murphy's Law is alive and well.
In my day we only used iron sights. When the Marine Corps switched to the ACOG all of us old Corps didn't trust it. Yet the Corps went on faith (and 2 years of field testing) to use the ACOG. Once the Marines were being accused of war crimes because of all the head shots they were getting, caused us old Corps to change our opinions. We will need to take another leap of faith on this.
Great review!!!
Well said.
The problem of being able to carry less rounds still stands tho, and its not a small one; you cant suppress much(even with a SAW) if your squad is out of ammo. On the other hand you need the round to be lethal enough, otherwise it doesnt matter how many you can carry, both concerns are valid.
Polymer cased ammo seemed a good way to mitigate the issue of weight to some extent, and imo was the truly meaningful innovation of the program, its a shame they didnt give it a chance, but perharps it was too big a leap.
The rifle itself seems to be a modernized scarH with a spicier load, a bit underwelming. I'd love to shoot them side by side, maybe it would change my mind
The kids are too young to remember - totally agree with you.
@@matteocesa9017 Fair. You are 8-10 less per mag. The belts will still be 100 rounds. I think the idea is that you will have a more accurate weapon (new optics) and more lethal (better penetration), and require less rounds to inflect damage (guessing). It is a leap of faith in any direction you go. In WWII we only had 8 rounds and the Garand ping that the Germans listened for. I think the recoil is more manageable than than the M14 or what we are imagining. We need to field it and break it and then we will know and can fix it.
@@hefeibao LOL!!!
I’ve seen a lot of controversy surrounding this rifle but to me, it makes sense. Regarding your point about volume of fire winning firefights, and not being able to carry as much 6.8 vs 5.56; my own experience tells me this isn’t going to be as much of an issue as we might expect. very recently we (British Army) have been moving away from the philosophy of filling every square inch of an enemies space with hot lead. We phased out our FN Minimi’s and instead of having an LMG gunner per section, we now have a 7.62 sharpshooter in every section instead. Filling much the same role as intended by your new Sig rifle. I think most modern western forces are going to go through this “evolution” in tactics. We learn from every conflict, we’re not totally regressing back to the Cold War era mentality, and carrying large powerful rifle cartridges, but we understand the limitations of our current ammunition technology.
I don’t know if I’ve articulated myself particularly well, but the new Sig and it’s ammunition makes sense to me.
Still can't deny the appeal of lead hoses. Something enticing about the idea no?
For the kind of war we faced in Afghanistan that combat philosophy works. But in a near peer war, I'm not convinced that volume of fire has taken the back seat. The war in Ukraine will be the big study on what does/doesn't work at the end of the day for near peer fighting though.
@@Dim2134 I think the idea is if you're gonna hose, have it come from a gunner trained in that role with an appropriate weapon. Having the entire squad emptying their mags into the air drains everyone. Make at least half your composition use the Spear and now the enemy knows they're peeking into a wall of essentially DMRs. Psychological suppression.
In the cold war those big battle rifles were using irons, not delivering the same precision we can now. They weren't giving up as much as we are now by focusing on suppressive fire.
@@ShimmeringSword No, I get the idea of the doctrine. It's just that there's still a lot of theory involved and us in the chairs, at least myself in the chair for what I know, I can only weigh things from a position of safety so I don't know. We won't really know until it's tested and money is put where our mouth's are you know? Still I kind of understand what you're getting at and I get the arguments for both sides but frankly we don't know how doctrine or even how the troops will evolve tactics to support these weapons yet since... doctrine is only useful if it works you know?
@@ShimmeringSword
They wouldn't be peeking out. Mirrors have been around for longer than guns.
Glad that i was able to try SIG Spear out.. its a great badass weapon, bit hard to get, but the marked rooms in Reserve usually have one, it rips PMCs and bosses aswell! Tarkov finally has a new king!
The good thing with this caliber and ammo is they can also shoot the non stainless case ammo if the hot stuff isn’t available.
Yet, brass 7.62 is faster from the same length barrel. It would be better to get it in 7.62 if you're not going to use hybrid ammo
@@theimmortal4718 it’s not in 7.62
@@TheGamingHellhound
Yes, it's in 6.8x51, which is slower than 7.62 from an all brass case.
@@theimmortal4718 as he clearly stated in the video multiple times, he wasn’t shooting the real-deal 80k psi .227 Sig Fury ammo. The real stuff leaves the barrel at over 3k fps, which for sure is faster than almost all .308 loads, and retains more of its velocity than .308’s at longer distances.
@@RB-xv4si
I'm well aware of that. Look at the barrel wear and destruction that 62k PSI m855A1 does to barrels, locking lugs, and feed ramps. The 80K PSI 6.8 will be even worse.
The 264 USA is a superior bullet and doesn't have the excessive pressure. It's lighter, top.
My 2 cent is this: yes the Army as adopted this rifle, and it seems to be a great rifle; but like GT said in the video, this is aimed toward the infantry units, direct action units (SF, 75th, etc.). As for the rest of the Army, Reserves and Guards included, the M4s will stay around for a long, long time. Now infantry platoons in the 82nd, 101st, 10th Mountain, etc., will probably get outfitted with the Spear rifles and MGs in the next 3 to 5 years. But for the rest of us POGs, it'll be DECADES before we even see this; especially if you're Reserves or Guards. Heck, my current arms room still have tons of M16A2s and M9s and those are still being used. Would I like to have this rifle for myself, absolutely! But as a Medical POG, the M4 and M18 are plenty for me.
The major issue with that will be the ammunition difference if the US military is involved in a major conflict that requires activation of those Guards or Reserve units.
You’re correct that POGs in the part time service don’t need it haha
I doubt SF guard will have to wait, but you know everything it seems.
@@evannmason6376, I was a Combat Engineer in the reserves before I went active. Served a tour in Afghanistan with them, cleared routes of IEDs, saw a lot of combat, slept in the same grime and hell hole, etc. We used all the same gear and weapons the rest of the Army did. It would be stupid not to get the reserves and guard the same equipment and trained on it, especially if you have to go to war with a major power like Russia or China and you need the bodies from the reserves and guard.
Im still jealous of you yanks with all your pretty toys.
Well, the need for a more powerful longer range round was apparent immediately in Afghanistan, now, 21 years later, after we left Afghanistan, we have it(Yet to be phased in). Great success!!!
Why not just have more weapons in 7.62x51 issued to units to support the 5.56 weapons?
@@smudge7057 Army planners are afraid that ballistic protection already exists within Russia and China that makes the very best 7.62 AP rounds useless, so they want something moving faster and with more energy to be able to defeat it.
This is exactly what I was thinking lmao
The Army is known for “fighting the last war”. While in some ways taking lessons learned and applying them can be good the Army often comes to the wrong conclusions and/or the lesson learned dont apply to the next conflict.
@@smudge7057 because they also approved a sig sauer replacement for the m249 saw (the xm250) also chambered in 6.8mm, having the ammo standardization helps a ton and it has better ballistics and penetration than 7.62 anyways.
The xm5 is absolutely not designed for the last war, it’s designed for any future large brigade combat instead of the lightly equipped guerrilla forces we’ve been fighting. The gun also really shouldn’t be discussed in a military context without mentioning the special fire control system/sight that will be equipped on every single one
Love your work men ❤
That AR T-handle is one of the things that pushed me to the AK first. Recent developments in aftermarket ARs has brought me back to the middle ground though, in particular the MCX and other AR-18/180 derivatives
GT out here showing us why training is important.
Recoil control is hands down THE BEST I have seen on this weapon. Watching literally everyone else shoot it, you would think it's an unweildy weapon that can't be used. Shows you how much people need to spend more time training and less time filming.
To be fair, he outright says he's using a lower pressure round. Given the full brass case and the specs from other civ spec 6.8 he's probably shooting a round that's around 20,000-30,000 psi lower than mil spec
You just described what I see in the range weekly. People's recoil management/stance/control is Awful.
I second this!
@@chrisclark6161 also fair. Would like to see him slinging some full pressure rounds. I have a suspicion that he manages the recoil with similar results. He's also the first person I've seen running a BCM foregrip (reversed) on that weapon and running a proper C-clamp on it. But you're right, full pressure rounds would be nice to see. Maybe in a few years when they're actually available.
He clearly states that he is not firing the high-pressure military round in the montage, so the excellent recoil management he demonstrates is not representative and can't be compared to the footage of the actual round other sources have provided. We'll have to wait to get a fair comparison ground.
They have both charging handles so when the stock is folded over you can still load and clear without having to extend the stock.
Not to mention it has an easier adoption. I don't understand why having more options without increasing complexity is a bad thing. The experienced can use what they want, and the newly trained can adopt either/or. For me, its like saying ambidextrous controls are a bad thing.
I much prefer a non-reciprocating left side charging rifle vs the AR style as you can charge the weapon without unshoukdering the weapon or losing sight picture... although this mainly becomes an issue with a malfunction as hot weapon on safe is the way to roll
@@dgtldead but it does increase the complexity and dirt ingress points. This thing sucks
@@wtice4632 I meant in regards to manufacturing. The rear charging handle and side charging handle can effectively be activated from the same point, only adding a contact point. I'm sure there's more to it, but in the overall sense, it isn't too complex. In regards to operational complexity, the user just has to get used to operation from a side-mount perspective ie making sure dirt doesn't get in from the side.
As long as the SAW gunners do their job it shouldn't be an issue
Your intro music is somethin else Mr. Thumb. Thumbs up Thumbs!!
Outstanding video Grand thumb as always you never fail to disappoint and you always give an honest assessment which is appreciated in these biased times that we have :-) that being said I am excited for the implementation of this weapon system I do agree with you all that shortcomings the wait the cost the spare round carrying capacity this weapon I feel would have been an absolute instrument of Doom on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq when I was there with my company my platoons my personnel now as far as combative Nature's and ballistic itineraries being a replacement for our main battle Implement not a specialized weapon or a DMR or snipers rifle this is indeed a full powered service rifle battle rifle whichever term is more sufficient to describe it but it is a return to that original concrete formula one shot one kill Precision heavy round infantry combat it's a cliche to say it but it is relatively speaking a matter of time to decide whether this is the right switch or not.
It's an absolute fact you know if you're on duty you're on your feet combat for extended periods of time I was on my feet for one instance for over 4 days so it does make a difference as my old man used to say rounds give way to pounds and certainly this thing is going to buy its design and functionality less ammo will be able to be carried it is an effective trade-off again time will tell I think what's been said about it is accurate but that's the same about every weapon system this thing is absolutely geared up to free fight operation enduring Freedom this is meant to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with ease now the round being a penetrator armor piercing supposedly for Superior Body armors coming online that in and of itself does not seem to be a Mainstay concern right now.
the Chinese and the Russians are not Fielding increased squads in companies and divisions with class 4 or greater level body armors yet they may Squad of well armored soldiers holding a perimeter yes that hot round can shine but that being said if we went to war with this thing today I just don't see that high pressure ammunition being utilized in times of War yeah 10 to 12,000 round service life Barrel is a glaring longevity problem but if there's a payoff then it certainly worth it but I just don't see it the Chinese are not outfitting the Mainstay of their army navy Marines Air Force whatever you want to supplement them with with high grade levels of body armor the Russians have proven that that was a cost cutting feature on their own troops in Ukraine as an illustration now that doesn't necessarily mean that he first class shooting War over Titanic battlefields going into the very heart of the Russian Bear itself you wouldn't see it.
But in its absence we only have speculation on for preparations as this weapon begins to be utilized and gains experience we may start to see contemporaries and advantages defenses against it's just as we did with other battle implements whether infantry or artillery or something in between needless to say though I'm excited my M16 I had a basic training and then the M4 platform that I utilize throughout my effective career I would say it was an absolutely effective battle instrument in a fully functioning assault rifle it was ballistics cannot be denied that being said I mostly had engagements with irregular Infantry terrorists Taliban militia you name it most of them had Surplus military equipment in the way of their uniforms and harnesses but most of them did not carry body armor so I'm sure if they had that would have nullified the effectiveness of the good old 5.56 but at the current stage in time everything you described in this video sir is on point and maybe you'll change your mind.
But I think this is the weapon of the future as we see it as we understand it and only by the weapon failing it's Mark will we see it shelved however if it is retained and utilized a great effect I'm going to make a premonition here or rather how I think it's going to go that high pressure ammunitions just not going to be utilized because the necessity for it may or may not materialize and if it doesn't materialize keeping everything else the same then you're going to see regular Full Metal Jacket 6.8x51 mm cartridges you're not going to see the high pressure loads that the Department of Defense in the military industrial complex has been pushing on it and it doesn't have a purpose you bet your ass they're going cut it if it's not serving a functional application getting results on the battlefield as it has been with every other inclement
M14 getting scrapped in Vietnam was not a big surprise looking at it from 2022 it was Second World War era battle rifle that did not carry its weight well was not the ideal weapon to be utilized in that conflict I think it's adequate with enough training in preparation but if you're talking fresh recruits full scale War guys under 6 ft it's not the ideal weapon system the M16 was the perfect weapon system for the Vietnam War considerably lighter softer to shoot so no brainer still think the fal would have been the better battle rifle to choose from the pile the G3 if it had been on the table but intermediary compact weapons and jungle warfare or a godsend
It's like I said before with modern enhancements we now have a weapon system that effectively is just shy of what looks like an antimaterial rifle scaled down for the Infantry and I will be excited to see which direction it goes when I go back on active duty after Christmas I wonder when if at all we'll see it at any place in the echelons of the Air Force but I'm going to pleasantly be surprised if this turns out to be our next M1 standard battle rifle
It seems like it may be a decent rifle, what I would really like to see is someone on the shorter side (or a less experienced shooter) shoot the full power ammo side by side with Garand Thumb. It would provide a good contrast.
@Commie Hammer yeahhhh, homie was getting shoved by this thing
@@adamho8059 I think he was using the military ammo where as GT was not.
@@Wonderboy205 makes sense, but I’m not sure that’s a good thing. I’d imagine that your average soldier would be less experienced that either of these guys and would get pushed around just as much
How tall is Garand thumb exactly?
Honestly how is the new woke transformer, bundle of sticks,
Female Dominated US military ment to operate this weapon and use it to the full extent of its capability
I figured 6.8 would be pretty hard to handle on full auto but GT seems to do alright with it.
@@ASS_ault waaay more than that my friend.
Hes not exactly a basic grunt, dude. Your weapon has to be optimally effective for least trained and experienced.
@@springbloom5940 Exactly. I want to see a female or smaller framed male soldier shoot it.
He can handle 7.62 just fine, 6.8 should be alright.
He's shooting the underpowered non steel base ammo so it's easier to manage.
I think the rear charging handle is a way to not have to deal with retraining every soldier to use the side charge but no doubt it will eventually be fazed out while the boot camp training changes to favor and teach all new recruits to use the side charge.
The MCX Mk2, the Virtus, is a fantastic rifle in both 5.56 and .300 blackout, even though it is a bit heavy. I think this Spear is the result of that Sig design, isn't it?
I really wished they had adopted 300blk when it was developed. Replace 556 and keep 308 for DMRs. Would've been financially economical too since all they have to change is a barrel, or for really quick change, an upper. Absolute minimal change to current "systems" and familiarity. But... They wanted a better BC bullet so here's we go...
@@jmanswat2457 how is 300blk a better cartridge? It has less range than 5.56
Supposedly, this weapon isn't complete without the "fire control system", which allegedly will negate some of the "problems you foresee". I'm skeptical, but I assume there are many professionals who have already tested the system and agree that the concept functions and provides us a significant overmatch. If all of that is true, and they are able to train the average troop to take advantage of all that overmatch, then I'm all for it.
Yeah to me that looks like just more complication that the average soldier has to deal with. I've heard military dudes talk about how hard it is just getting average guys to understand how to use the BDC in an ACOG. If it all works it'll be awesome, but i just don't see the average soldier using it to its potential, and it has a lot of stuff to go wrong compared to something like an ACOG. Hope i'm wrong, because in a vacuum the technology looks amazing.
Yeah I'm sure a bunch of woke female truck drivers can handle a 12 pound rifle just fine 😂😂😂
@Riorozen have you shot this?
The average troop has 80IQ mate
“If it works then I like it” basically what you said dude, way to make a very decisive argument…
I love this gun because it’s everything annoying AR guys hate, it keeps the forward assist, it’s a larger caliber, it’s short stroke piston system, and it has a side charging handle. Also the pseudo monolithic upper is super cool.
Haha yes, AR guys cope hard
Not sure why they would hate it. But cliques seem to be in literally every hobby out there,so weird on either side to me. A rifle is a rifle.
@@brianrich7828 it is because he is a contrarian no guns.
Yeah!
We all know a Russian designed rifle from 1947 is the only way to go.....
Ohh the sig does have the forward assist still didn't even notice until u said that interesting
Take a look at this barrel "she's a thick thick boy"
Love the videos mate. But had to poke fun at ya for the blunder, gave me a great laugh
Looks badass AF! and finally a larger round than the 5.56! This is a good thing! Dont forget we going to use the XM250 bad-boy. Theres your cover fire!
I was all excited like “Damn he’s handling that reportedly high recoil very well!”, then he said he wasn’t using the higher pressure 227’s 😭.
The Department Of Defense Should Be Ashamed.
I was watching MAC the other day and they said they wouldn’t be surprised if they nerf the round to GT’s pressure or even re-chamber this into regular 7.62x51 NATO, and I completely agree.
@@peasantjeff4731 doing either of those things invalidates the entire rationale for this rifle and caliber. They'll do neither.
@@Grinchlip They will. Once they realize that the recoil makes the hit to miss ratio weird.
He's not the average shooter. Look at other people shooting it. It's throwing them around.
I just realized an advantage that the XM5/XM250 will have over in urban warfare:
The majority of peer/near-peer combat we are seeing in Ukraine that falls into the CQB realm is being decided primarily with superior initiative, better reconnaissance and with whoever is better at getting grenades into the enemy’s lap. There’s no real advantage to the Spear vs the M4 in the grenade aspect, the Army’s said the fireteam will retain its grenadier, whether it’ll be an underslung M320/M302 or something else I don’t know. But there’s the recon value: The Spear coupled with its new optic will be leaps and bounds more effective in seeking and picking off the main opponent of an infantry formation in an urban environment: Snipers. Now each American soldier can effectively act as a poor-man’s sniper, pinning, communicating positions and allowing other elements to move in and take tactical initiative. And overall the Army’s banking on its ability to be better aware of the battle space than their opponents, as evidenced by the sheer amount of information sharing and networked capability the infantry has now compared to what it did even as recently as Fallujah or Mosul. The Spear itself comes into play here in the ability of these weapons to make structures that were once considered cover against 5.56 penetrable to the average soldier if he knows what/who is there. This allows the Spear to use its size to its advantage by standing off and picking apart enemy units from locations placed at ranges that their weapons wouldn’t necessarily be able to punch through, and attempts at closing the distance would reveal their locations to superior reconnaissance and allow for counter maneuver to be conducted to defeat them or allow air support to counter them. It is either that or the enemy would be forced to vacate the position and surrender ground.
At least, that is what I think (emphasis on “I think”) is the theory of the Army’s future tactics.
Even if you’re wrong about literally everything you’ve said here, it’s still a really well thought out thought process
@@DPolk98 fr 😂
@@DPolk98 ...but...but...but, whut abouwt mUh 556??? I thought the m4 in 556 wuz the gr8test thang since sliced bread, naw whut am I gunna dew??? -random fudd
When i first saw the power of this new cartridge and the emphasis on armor penetration, my first impression was that the US higher-ups were planning a war against Russia.
If you think using a a literal Battle Rifle for CQB role is good, the M5 failed that role in every sense, and yeah you are just wrong, there is reason we go for 5.56 and AR for a reason, and not 7.62 with BR after WWII
The spear is a cool gun plain and simple, love your videos garand thumb
I think my favorite part about these videos is the beginning montage/edit
18:25
For what it's worth, for my line infantry company in 2008/2011 we honestly shot somewhere between 250 to 400 live rounds through our rifles in a calendar year. It was a bit of a joke how little we shot "to maintain proficiency". Gearing up for deployment it'd be closer to 200 or 300 a month, but still. Everything else was blanks with BFDs. Very OSUT-esque. Mileage may vary of course. My unit was probably trash, too. Just figured I'd throw this in there.
Lol i guess some things never change.
That has not changed in my experience.
Sounds exactly correct, that's just a tad more than what we were doing in the Marine Corps reserves in 2003-2007ish (I was an 0341). It's one of the main reasons I got out: I was just so disappointed with the training we were getting, I didn't have confidence in my abilities or that of my fellow Marines.
So.... we have an all volunteer military. It ain't the Vietnam thing anymore ( GOD BLESS THOSE WHO SERVED) Take it from the USMC. Not much chance of jungle War with Russia or PRC.
In my time with the 101st Airborne as an infantryman from 2014 to 2018 we actually shot a ton of live rounds during training. I would shoot about 300 rounds in one day of training. When I moved up to be a Weapons Squad leader my machine gun teams would put out about 600 rounds or more in a day. We were in the field quite a bit, a lot was shooting blanks but we did shoot a lot of live ammo as well.
This could be good in a "Tier" system, being issued to troops depending on what type of terrain they're operating in.
It would be great in desert or mountains, but in jungles, you would run into the same problems we had in Vietnam with the M14.
I guess it will do until we can make a Plasma Rifle in the 40 Watt Range!
In the end having more specialized divisions looks like the way to go
it might be closer to the 1918 Bar or m1 garand in the ww2 pacific jungles/korea thru Vietnam which have a great track record. both the m14 - m16 failed the Vietnam reliability test. so the m14 isn't a reliable representation as it was the rifle design more failing then the cartridge.
Mark,has this new weapon been tested in a desert environment ??? That's my main concern for soldiers who may have to fight in the desert again.
@@powerbad696 No one in the west will be fighting in the desert for at least the next 50 years. And if we do, it'll be in Western China.
@@TechnoMinarchist You mean,you hope we don't !!! Things are subject to change.The new army is marsh-mellow SOFT.And when the army first started fighting in Iraq they were a hot mess !!! LOL. No up-armored vehicles,trying to turn non-combat arms into doing convy escorts,combat patrols. Soldiers who didn't know enough to clean their weapons,to points the weapons wouldn't fire !!! Ncos & officers didn't know how to read a map !!! In 2004,a 4 star general was on tv saying his troops didn't have AMMO and were going thru garbage to find something to use as armor for their vehicles.
OMG the start of this vid goes so hard!!
"The MCX in .566 versus the MCX spear is you versus the guy she told you not to worry about" ... I'm dead lol
The XM250 looks great and I think this would be epic as a DMR or an option, like you said, for missions that have the majority of firefights taking place at 400-500 meters but I think the military is going to rediscover the same lessons pretty quickly when their guys are saying that carrying less than half the number of rounds you can carry with a 5.56 just isn't enough.
I really don't think the ability to defeat body armour is important enough to offset the round deficit.
As someone who has deployed and engaged targets that wouldn’t stop with (1) 556, this concept is relevant. 556 doesn’t put people down past 200m. When my DMRs/Snipers weren’t taking the M39 or M110 I did instead as the stopping power of the 762 projectile far off set the less rounds I took as one round stopped the engagement.
Buy the solders a gym membership and the heavier ammo wont be a issue
It's ability to defeat modern body armor is questionable as well. M14A1 API out of 20" barrel can't penetrate modern Russian plates. 6.8 is overpressured and afaik uses tool steel in it's penetrator but it's shot out of 16" barrel. ua-cam.com/video/Ywlf6uaDvjQ/v-deo.html
Are they setting up to switch to the polymer case rounds though? I don’t know much about what pressures those can take but certainly helps the weight
@@TheUsmc0802 You need a Spear in .375 Fury.
250 Grain at 2600 FPS. 16 inch Barrel.
Shoots through buildings like a DShk.
7:48 No photo popped up showing anything
But awesome breakdown of the XM5. Absolutely love the design and function of this platform.
I don't think anything will ever really replace an M4A1 or any AR15 platform for that matter, but this definitely has my acceptance of coming close.
And the Russian AK-12???? Hahahaah AR All the way
Just discovered this LARP channel. Very cool.
i swear this guy looks so cool shooting any gun
Production value of this channel has come so far, amazing work as always
Not going to lie, I absolutely love your intro's. They're always on point. I have a big crush on all of the MCX's and when I saw this one about a year ago my feelings weren't any different. When I saw you made a video with the Spear I knew the introduction was going to be good and you did not disappoint. That was the best video clip with the Spear yet!
The sig spear basically shoots a .270 Winchester short mag. I was asking years ago why the military never entertained .270 rounds. It’s a great balance between Linda range accuracy, power and light recoil.
They told us it was mostly because our NATO "partners" only used 5.56, so a European war made getting ammo easier. BUT we found out in Iraq the Brits used less powder, thus throwing our zero and quals out of whack!
@@fyrdoc Not having the exact amount and type of powder is crazy if you are aiming for unified ammo in NATO.
@@fyrdoc I think NATO is a thing of the past and everyone is preparing to fight one another like pre-WWII.
@@BarisPalabiyik Always the fucking Brits
Mr. Garand originally designed his rifle for a new .277 round. General MacArthur said we had huge warehouses full of 30.06 and made Ordinance change it.
Man that clear mag looks so dope on camera
I think Sig got it pretty much dead on with the spear for a service rifle. It’s an evolution, yes, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. The velocities coming out of it are pretty damn impressive, and the ammo will evolve and improve in short time. Ergonomically familiar. Quality components. Well thought out. I’m just a retired old grunt, but the Spear gives me a warm and fuzzy for our warfighters.
Seems like a a midway between a proper DMR and a standard infantry rifle. More rounds really are just more important than better rounds for standard infantry. The use for this seems like a SOCOM type of deal, replacing that shitty SCAR-H. Hard to see us moving away from 5.56 unless it was to use 5.45, which is really unlikely.
I'd like to see a replacement for the M4 that's more reliable with less maintenance, and I think the Corps nailed it with the pick of the IAR. It's really smooth in operation, rugged, and accurate.
@@DavidFrycSaber Just curious, why is SCAR-H crappy?
@@bokiNYC its heavy, bulky, not as ergonomic, and shoots a .308 with not enough barrel to make full use of the cartridge.
Its still a fantastic firearm just not a good infantry rifle, if only just because of the cost.
@@bokiNYC watch this video he even said the scar H is bad. Holding the hand guard feels like holding a brick
@@bokiNYC Th reciprocating charging handle is annoying, and it kills optics for some unexplained reason. Way overpriced if you ask me.
Optics are usually way way more expensive than guns are so I'd rather get a cheaper gun that still reliable like many AR's and AK's over some microscopic gains that some lab tests say the gun does better.
9:38 "She is a thick boy"
A modern rifle indeed
You handle that thing like a beast.
Can definitely use it mountain long range,great assessment btw.
This seems like a good *conventional war* rifle. Open ground, basic infantry tactics, support by fire type stuff alongside beltfeds. Any close range stuff, or like you said Vietnam, I’d rather have something else.
In those instances it'll probably be a good thing that we keep the old shit around for.
@@Dim2134 that’s what I was thinking, like in Battalion we have the Geissele upper, we still have the short Daniel Defense MK18 and guys can use either one. We even have SCARs laying around but, those go to new privates lol. So that’s probably what’ll happen with this rifle
@@brotherjew1Hmm, it's probably going to be something developed more as time goes on like the M-16 was at minimum though. Things always change in implementation.
@@Dim2134 Yeah like maybe a shorter CQC version? I dunno if that would fuck with the ballistics, like I dunno what they’d do to make it more SOF friendly.
@@brotherjew1 Not sure, still being able to shoot fellas with body armor is at least a good thing.
After using modified versions of M4s in theater, i would have loved to have used this on deployments. Really like this platform. Multi purpose and 6.8? OOF. CQB with 6.8 is devastating for anyone on the receiving end of the boomstick
@@niklas6405 The 5.56 is a varmint round. .277 is a .270.
@@niklas6405 a partition projectile in cqb measuring 6.8-7.62mm is nasty. Redepositing flesh
China'll think twice, I'd say
It'll surely leave some nasty dents on a concrete wall but it'll just whizz through your enemies due to bullet restraints the military has to abide to
@@stockloc a war with china is unlikely even before xm5.
Love how he just drops the mcx on the ground when doing the comparison in size.hahaha
"You vs the guy she told you not to worry about" Its christmas when i saw this, it just hit different today 😂
Less than 30 seconds gang rise up
That's what she said
I’m here. But I read less than 3 inch
Yes sir
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88.2% of people who liked this were, in fact, not here before 30 seconds
This rifle and cartridge seem like an excellent M110 replacement! In-fact from looking at the ballistic charts, it seems that the 6.8x51 would make an excellent 7.62 replacement pretty-much across the board (due to higher muzzle velocity as well as ballistic coefficient) in stuff like GPMGs & MMGs (like the M240)
But, when joes start running out of ammo in firefights more and more often because a 7 magazine loadout only gets you 140 rounds (vs the current 210 5.56mm) while also weighing more, I'd wager a lot of questions are going to get asked about why this was adopted for this role.
As for armor penetration capability, I'm a bit dubious of the 6.8x51mm's capability given that NIJ IV plates (which I'll use interchangeably with SAPI & foreign equivalents) are rated to stop a larger, heavier, & faster bullet with a tungsten penetrator (The M2AP) than what this caliber can deliver.
6mm ARC seems much better suited to the "Oh no, our infantry rifle can't reach out far enough" problem that was endemic of the war in Afghanistan, without sacrificing the M4's size or weight, and only moderately compromising on magazine capacity (30 rounds being reduced to 25, rather than 20) while still keeping the same magazine form-factor (As opposed to the significantly bulkier AR-10 pattern magazine)
30-06 will be hitting with 60,000-70,000PSI even while using Tungsten tips.
The SPEAR can hit with 80,000PSI using regular ammunition, and even harder with AP rounds. Thats a SIZEABLE difference in terms of striking force.
So your thought process about it not hitting as hard as the 30-06 is incorrect. This thing hits much harder.
Can it penetrate as far as a 30-06? Perhaps not. But it'll get close due to the massive increase in striking force. And I guarantee you that if you get hit with this round, regardless of body armor, its going to put you on your ass and take you out of the fight all the same.
@ObiWanShinobi The PSI is the operating pressures of the cartridge and not a factor in the ability of the projectile to penetrate armor. It is the mass and the speed, as well as the composition, of the bullet that determine it's ability to penetrate armor. I agree with everything stated by Caleb
You’re far too logical for the comment section here. Be gone with you and your valid question asking ways!
@@ObiWanShinobi917 psi is chamber pressure. Impact energy of a round is measured in joules, or kgs/pounds per ft/m2
@@l5mtf393 fpe
I think they should make a few divisions worth of them, and keep them in storage. It makes sense to have them. They would be great for long distance environments or near peer countries. The majority of the time however, I think carbine is the way to go.
Very Good Review. I understand the new Sig has a foldable stock so showing the length seemed a bit biased. Also the new scope to be basic issue for this rifle wasn't talked about.
I have a strong feeling that the spear xm5 won’t replace all M4s but will be relegated as the new DMR with that new vortex smart scope. Maybe some riflemans would have it, but likely not all considering the big reduction of fire superiority with less ammo. They’ll still get to be ran with the ngsw xm250 as the saw for ammo compatibility.
DOD likely wouldn’t like the logistical nightmare of needing sig proprietary ammo for big army while other branches still use 5.56 with their newly procured HKs and noveskes. I’m guessing there could be a better m855a1 in the future with a beefier chamber on new barrels and perhaps a more robust bolt and bolt carrier group. Especially considering the relatively recent adoption of the urgi and the tango 6t, I’m thinking those m4s will get stretched a bit more. Similar to how 9mm made the millennium caliber .40’s reign so short-lived with ammo developments in view of wanting more capacity.
In other news, US Army will soon be called SIG army.
Ngsw: spear xm5
Ammo: 6.8 fury of sig
Ngsw saw: xm250
6.8 can: sig
Full size handgun: m17
Compact handgun: m18
Lpvo: 6t
Sig Uniform and humvees next anyone?
Yeah agree it's self a great candidate for a DMR. With a flatter trajectory than 308 I'm sure more hits will achieved with it in combat. 1 or 2 of these plus 1 or 2 XM250s in a squad and the remainder with AR15 carbines would be a great mix. Add medium velocity 40I'm ammo for grenadiers and you have a squad that rocks from CQB ranges to beyond 600 AND can carry reasonable amounts of ammo.
If they can realistically phase out 7.62x51 and replace it with 6.8 NGSW, that might make sense, provided you can maintain barrel life.
It's a great DMR.
Just not a regular grunt's weapon.
Probably
Not only that, but replacing a NATO standard round now when everyone is finally standardized on 5.56 and NATO is more relevant than ever would be.... odd.
i think it's really the evolution of optics that's leading us back to long range accuracy in rifles, because it's going to become very easy for even inexperienced shooters to hit targets at very long distances as the technology progresses. the new optic supposedly lets you automatically zero the optic by pressing a button while aiming it at a target, and that sounds incredible.
20 round magazines in CQB doesn't sound very fun, but i suppose CQB is less of a concern in a near peer conflict than it has been during insurgency conflicts. we'll just have to wait and see how it performs in actual combat.
CQB will be just as big of an issue. That’s not why the round was adopted it was because of body armor. But to defeat body armor you lose a little bit in other places. This one is body armor
you have a point about CQB. but i disagree. Urban warfare is here to stay. Ukraine has been sucking Russia into prolonged deathtraps in cities for a while now. But I'm not sure the 10 less rounds will make as big of a difference when you hit actually hit people twice as much or if all it takes is one shot to incapacitate.
The question is still, is a war against a near-peer opponent pure fantasy or likely to happen?
No such war has existed since 1945. War after war has been fought, but none against near-peer opposition.
If, by adopting this rifle, all you do is make it ten times more expensive to put a bullet in the stomach of a farmer off his tits on khat and fighting with an antique AK47 (the opponent most likely to be fought against), that is hardly an improvement.
You still gotta hit what you see.
@@adamkhan4451 XM5 won't even defeat current issue body armor. What are you on about?
It sounds just like the m16s used in black hawk down, the audio at least, that thing is a beast
Just held one at the Sig pro shop. It's very heavy! Literally feels twice as heavy as a military m4 even if it's not technically. I can't see this being standard issue
If I recall correctly, one of Sig’s representatives did say their new cartridge technology could be applied to other already existing cartridges and significant performance increases could be gained by doing so. I’m no expert, nor do I know the exact details of the NGSW program, but did anybody on that board raise their hand and ask sig to apply the bimetal case to 5.56 or any other actual intermediate cartridge that already exists to improve said cartridge’s performance and still retain roughly the same size as the m4/m16? The DOD keeps talking about how they want to keep up with near-peer threats like China, but China has a roughly 3 million man military. So the U.S army’s solution is to adopt a heavier rifle with less magazine capacity and most likely a lower ammunition load out than 5.56? Once again, I’m no expert, but it seems to me there is a disconnect here. The rifle seems like it is a good rifle, wether or not it’s a good standard-issue rifle remains to be seen.
EDIT: You guys all correctly brought this up, and yes, I do understand the m4 would require retrofitting, perhaps to a substantial level, in order for it to be able to take high pressure bimetal cartridges. I do think it can be done, but it of course requires funds and resources I don’t have. I do love seeing you guys being all smart and scientific down here, though. Garand thumb’s comment section is far more intelligent then they give themselves credit for. Keep it up, gentlemen. 👍
The issue is the m4 wont handle the higher chamber pressures if they switch to the bimetal cartridges.
I recently got to talk to some of the sig representatives and they did indeed confirm that this ammo technology could be applied to about any cartridge as long as the weapon could handle the new chamber pressures crated by the new round
NAS3 cases the tech of which sig is using, are already available in most common handgun and rifle calibers. They are also much lighter than brass.
I wonder what the round performance is going to be like? I’m discussion of the foreseen conflict with China I think back to the stories from troops in Korea who were able to take down several Chinese soldiers at a time during mass charges because of the 30-06. I doubt China would forget the lesson learned there considering they hid their true losses as well as feared joining in Vietnam openly due to the losses in Korea.
I think it’s more the concept of having a cartridge that significantly outranges the enemy, 5.56 made sense in Vietnam where you dealt with close ranges, but it was criticized constantly in the Middle East for its range limitations and if we’re expecting war in places like Eastern Europe and Asia, we may be dealing with far more open areas.
If you swap out the operator foregrip for the ranger foregrip you'd reduce vertical and horizontal recoil by 12% only at a cost of 10% reduced ADS movement speed...
Rangers are operators also what is a ranger grip or operator grip?
@@jonahjones5736 it's just a video game joke, like Call of Duty and that stuff.
@@jonahjones5736 boomer….
Ha!
or you could use RKP zenitco grip and get that massive ergo boost. (head, eyes) for days.
I was in the Marine Corps when they promoted the 223 round. After over 50 years, they are going back to the bigger round. Crazy.
Crazier than that. This is a .277 or so in a necked down .308 cartridge. Mr. Garand originally designed the M1 Garand in a new …. .277 round! But General MacArthur said we had millions of rounds of .30-06 in storage and ordered it changed to .30-06. So it’s more like a hundred years.
Gotta keep the funding coming in.
I’ll be infantry 11b in a few months in Fort Wainwright AK! I might see these by next year! Feeling pretty excited to try out 6.8! Hopefully Sig gets it right for our sake 😅! 🤘🏼🇺🇸
Totally should have stuck with side charging. I prefer that over the other for ARs. This is is probably the best review of this gun I have seen. Great job Mr. Thumb
Mr Thumb😭😭😂😂
He should rename to Mr Thumb, officially.
My buddy has a side charging AR15 in 22LR
I'll stick with traditional, thanks
Personally I’d like to run this with a 16-20” barrel configuration with Sig’s Tango MSR LVPO with 1-10x Magnification. This would make a killer DMR platform for sure.
Except the Tango MSR 1-10 is entry level and you could do MUCH better.
@@SeanMcDermott True but I’d like to start off with less expensive glass to learn to shoot with an LPVO. I’d switch off to Sig Sayer’s more premium options or run something from Trijicon later after getting more practice.
@@gtmike916 I get that but this rifle is $8000. Someone buying this would likely not put anything entry level on it.
@@gtmike916 no reason to start off with cheap glass. Buy once cry once with glass. If you're on a budget spend less on the gun. You can get a fine gun for less than several thousand dollars, glass you cannot
@@SeanMcDermott Right but like I said I would get the better stuff later after training.
Awesome 😮
Excellent
I think it makes a lot of sense as a specialist rifle, for certain people like a Designated Marksman... just use .277 as a replacement for 7.62x51 and keep 5.56 as the standard for the regular infantry.
Technology has moved on...insurgents are rocking body armour now. Its about post penetration lethality.
I think that’s what is going to happen. The M4 will stay the standard infantry rifle. This will become a DMR and squads will either replace their current DMR setup or they will add this as a supplement.
the military thinks otherwise & they do war fighting for a living =/
In terms Ww3 or civil war 2 miltary might need everyone in the squad to effectively engage longer distances effectively 😅
@@LIONTAMER3D No, the brass thought otherwise because they needed to justify their bloated budget