I think the people who "dislike it" dislike the fact nowhere outside of London seems to ever get anything nice like this rather than the thing itself. I'm one of them. It isn't an either or thing either, as a country we can easily afford this and for similar lines to be built elsewhere in the country, the government just aren't interested in things outside of the M25 unless it brings direct benefits to London.
I live in the Cotswolds and frequently have to travel to the Excel centre. Paddington to Custom House now takes me 25 minutes instead of an hour. I LOVE the Elizabeth line!
@@street-levelNo, HS2 is still going to Manchester. There's the electrification of the Trans-Pennine route. And the completion of the Ordsall Chord. New trains for the Tyne and Wear Metro. New trains for Liverpool.
I used to live near Crowland. It's a village in Lincolnshire, roughly half way between Spalding and Peterborough. Taking the Elizabeth line out there would be quite ambitious.
I know Crowland, my grandparents used to live in Bourne. I didn't know there was anywhere NEAR Crowland, though - it felt like the remotest place I've ever been to in the UK!
Crowlands lives on in a tiny way on the Great Eastern line today - there's a neutral section (gap of overhead wire electricity supply) between Chadwell Heath and Romford known as 'Crowlands Neutral Section'!
Those green belt nimbies are a menace. There are literally cars parked a stone's throw from the Crowlands site and those people could be using Crowlands station to travel both west and east. That bridge, at Crowlands didn't seem to be wide enough to have four tracks and also space for an island platforms. I get the impression that the bridge would need more wiidening, on the Crossrail side. I hope they do it sometime. With electrified trains, it's not to hard to stop and start again.
I think that the Overground should be extended from Barking Riverside to Thamesmead (across the Thames) and also the Elizabeth line from Abbey Wood to Thamesmead.
Congratulations Jago! Something that merits a sentence in the history books is expanded to a six and half minute video. Just imagine what you could do with War & Peace!
Glad I checked out the comments before stating the same. Does anyone have any links to the Romford Brewery track, that went under the main line before emerging on what is fast track to London now? Someone said it was the tightest curve in the country at the time. Can recall seeing trains on it back in the early 60s and some of the track still survived in the 'Battis' up until a few years ago.
@@donquixote2553 I can still remember walking from school on the London Road toward Romford town centre. If the wind was an easterly, you could smell the brewery long before you got anywhere near it.
Is the fare from Reading to Paddington the same on the Intercity and semi-fast trains as it is on the Elizabeth Line? If so, I can see using the Elizabeth line being pretty pointless if Reading is your closest station, and also if you live near Slough.
My friend from Reading now uses Elizabeth Line daily to commute to work, but that is for West Drayton. For London it’s best to use GWR of course, and change at Paddington.
The island platforms thing would seem to explain a lot of stations that I used to go through when at Essex Uni (Colchester). Shame about Crowlands though. As my mother used to say "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". I'm ambivalent about the Elizabeth Line as I've not used it yet. It seems to me to be the kickstarter line to the rebranding of Londons Overground services.
Interesting indeed to speculate how Crowlands would have done financially. It neatly filled a >2 mile gap between Chadwell Heath and Romford but had limited houses nearby plus factories and a park. It would probably have been one of the more lightly used stations. But if it had survived to the Elizabeth Line I can imagine lots of new housing construction on the brownfields sites as it's a sustainable location. An interesting equivalent was Angle Road which must have been one of London's least used stations when surrounded by industrial estates but has now been replaced by Meridian Water (and a new 3rd parallel track from Tottenham Hale) to serve new housing developments. As for the Elizabeth line, I travelled on it off-peak a couple of days ago and could barely get a seat. Admittedly the train had started at Heathrow so some of the seats were blocked by mega-luggage.
I love the Elizabeth Line, for purely self-serving reasons. I live close to one end of the line (Berkshire) and someone I like to visit often lives almost at the other end. Using contactless payments under TFLs pricing structure has almost HALVED how much I need to pay, and I don't have to change a few times in central London, as long as I'm not in a hurry...
As I mentioned above, I live in the Midlands and I love the Elizabeth Line, but the fact is when so much money is spent on a project it ought to be totally amazing. And the rest of the country isn't getting the same level of investment as London has. For example the bus shelters in my local town look like they haven't been renovated for about 40 years, and it would probably cost about 0.000000000001% of the amount it cost to built CrossRail.
@@ajs41 come to Peterborough, we have bus shelters and bus stops with no buses. Yet a brand new shelter built at the penultimate stop of one route. Why? (Probably paid for by developers).
To add to the Elizabeth Line hate, earlier this week all trains to Shenfield were delayed due to a line side fire "in the Maidenhead area", despite these trains terminating at Paddington. That would never have happened when the Shenfield line terminated at Liverpool Street.
@@highpath4776 Apparently not. There was a train in the sidings at Gidea Park, but it wasn't going anywhere. There are a couple of scheduled trains early in the morning that still go to Liverpool Street, but that's it.
I used to go through there all time as a kid when I lived in Rush Green as we used it to get to London Road avoiding the path that passed the old gas works
Fascinating. Having used the line into Liverpool Street my entire life, I never knew that a station was proposed at Crowlands. However, without the hospital being built it's hard to see there would be much demand for it back then and even toda It sits a short equidistance between Romford and Chadwell Heath and Romford is well served by both the Elizabeth Line and Greater Anglia services, as such it is a far busier station than Chadwell Heath, which even though it now has far more frequent Elizabeth Line services is still a relatively quiet station; time will tell, but I suspect that as long as Green Belt development restrictions remain in place, the major effect of the Elizabeth Line will be to raise house prices all along its route which it has been doing ever since it was being developed.
Definitely a fascinating what-if, if this station were ever to be made. Who knows if it would have survived, or if Beeching would have taken his dreaded axe to it - then again, London's commuter rails were generally not too badly hit by that. Great video!
I think that Crowlands is too close to Romford to have merited the expense. Especially as it's got Chadwell Heath close too. Gidea Park, whilst also being close to Romford at roughly the same distance, had the advantage of having more potential commuters to traverse its platforms. Crowlands land is mostly a giant cemetery, with a giant park nearby in Rush Green and Rush Green commuters are a wild card as they have the option of Dagenham East Station. Great video! 😊
Trains have legs (1:18)? Surely they have wheels? (Apart from Brunton's Mechanical Traveller of 1815, which distinguished itself not just by having legs but in killing the largest number of people in a UK locomotive boiler explosion - at least 13, mainly sightseers, in Philadelphia - County Durham, not Pennsylvania.)
I am waiting for Jago's vid on this, I am sure the intro is a set up for it, though Volk's high water transport at Brighton he has already covered is a sort of honurable second place hybrid of legs with wheels on
@@highpath4776 We shall see! Volk's Daddy-Long-Legs was an utterly amazing contraption and there is nothing quite like it. Boat, train or pier? It makes the Mechanical Traveller seems quite pedestrian by comparison (***joke***) but also there is not much info about the latter because of its early date and sad end.
If Crowlands had been built it would definitely have been used by people heading to the hospital, And maybe, because that, the hospital would have grown in size and importance, maybe developing some specialist wards that focused on research of sleep apnoea or virology. But maybe this would have led to an unfortunate mingling of patients with what, on the surface, was a harmless rash, but when mixed created what the World feared most, the Zombie Virus. Suddenly Crowlands would have been ground Zero of a devastating epidemic that would have culled civilisation during the 60s thus depriving the World of The Monkees, in-line roller skates and all future rail development. And that would have led us to be without the Elizabeth Line and, I fear, your regular videos. Thank goodness Crowlands was never built!
Some years ago during the original 'Crossrail' planning, there was a proposal to build a new train maintenance depot on the tract of land to the south side between Allen's Ford workshops and the up main. There were all sorts of artists impressions in the Romford Recorder newspaper and local media at the time. However, it proved an expensive option and challenging operationally. So, like the station it never took place. Incidentally, I understand that Justums Lane was a local variation of Judson's Lane - whoever Mr. Judson was - and Crowlands was originally known as 'Crownlands' as much of the land in the area had early Royal connections - but don't quote me on it!
A London City Airport station would be super useful, but I guess it will only ever happen if LCY foot most of the bill (especially after LHR did so for their station) - so I won’t hold my breath.
The now gone Silvertown station was once an embarkation point for London City Airport and about where the old station was, is a structure that might be for ventilation. In fact, London City Airport was REFUSED permission by TfL to build and fund a Silvertown station in 2016.
Growing up just round the corner from Jutsums lane I sure would have found this station useful 😂 Fascinating video though, never knew there were ever plans!
As a non-londoner any 'dislike' is purely because it's a vast expensive project that could have had the funds directed elsewhere. And aside from reducing the journey times of the best served people in the country all it seems to have done so far is reduced the service pattern of the other lines.
There are some lovely old photos of steam trains passing Crowlands Signal Box, which is perhaps surprising, as it can't have been easy to get to that location in the 1920s, especially lugging an old-fashioned plate camera. A station there wouldn't have got much business - it's mostly industrial units. I think I once picked a car up from Allen's of Romford near there.
Not living in London, I would like to learn more about the land cleared for HS2 at Euston. In Southampton there are never used and abandoned railway embankments built by the GWR to extend their line from Winchester to Southampton Docks. Partially built and abandoned railway lines have a long heritage.
Even more interesting was the former roadside buildings along Euston Road before Euston Tower and the Flyover were built. Benny Green used to talk about it on his London Weekend programs about London and his Radio 2 radio program but I dont know if recordings survived.
I find it curious that they started building an island platform station and yet the tracks today are dead straight with no room for a platform. Did they realign the tracks back straight again after the construction was abandoned?
if you look at the road bridge, there’s a fringe of green that looks to be big enough for another track. presumably the platform would have been quite narrow, and possibly lightly built enough (of wood?) that re-straightening the tracks wasn’t too difficult
Lived very near this site in fact my children went to Crowlands primary school, interesting to hear there could have been a station here, very handy, hated the walk to Romford station
as a ladbroke grove resident, seeing “the elizabeth line station that could’ve been” got my hopes up you’d be talking about the proposed kensal town station, only for it to be heartlessly dashed by this place in the middle of nowhere. perhaps a future topic given the new development going in around there?
Рік тому+2
I wish someone would do what you do but for Berlin! It's so relaxing 🙂
Very interesting, I do a lot of compliance work and Allen Ford at Jetsums lane was one of my sites to inspect, there is a lot of Network Rail access points on their land that cannot have anything parked in front of them and I always thought this was weird that they accessed the track from inside Allen Ford. I would guess if there were plans for a historic station that never came to anything then the historic rights of way would still exist within the lease plans to BR. I have quite a few photos from inside the car park that I guess anyone could get, but may raise questions amongst the staff if you start nosing about the car park.
There was an article some years ago in" london railway record" about the proposed Crowlands station. The writer even did a reconstruction of what the station would look like if it had been completed, even down to the running-in boards
Ah, Crowlands is one I rarely ever hear get mentioned. I think it could probably be just about justified these days, especially if the industrial estate is redeveloped. Would be good to have a video on the proposed North Kensington station too!
I believe at one time there was a station at Crowlands, not sure if is was when Eastern Counties Railway existed or after. On the Down Electric side under brambles, I've been told are the remnants of an original platform.
Have you seen today work has started on making Motspur Park station disabled friendly , looks like one of the identikit lift pairs and bridges with the brick effect panelling with just under a 18month timescale to do. Its worth at look at Motspur Park, hopefully the old southern footbridge can go to another preserved railway .
Jutsum: is that the surname of some local farmer whose lane/farm was enveloped by the new community (think Daniel Rayner at Rayner's Lane)? I love regional names: where we used to live, in Hereford, one regularly found Taysom & Snowzell - never seen them anywhere else.
Samuel and Edward Jutsum are listed on the Romford parish records for 1848 as local farmers, and the lane is named after them. It's probably of Devonshire origin.
Maybe ask Sadiq Khan and TfL to rebuild and reopen Crowlands station that would serve nearby Romford Stadium. I’m pretty sure that a new railway station at Crowlands is planned to be built just for the Elizabeth Line. Whilst Greater Anglia trains would pass through the newly reopened station.
I would like to see a railway station where London City Airport is...but I would also like to see the airport closed and council housing, parks and shops built the full length of the runway.
if I had a pound for every time a railway station was proposed to serve hospitals just outside Greater London but never happened, I'd have £2 - which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
My only wish is that the EL would have been routed south of the River ie the Abbey Wood to Reading branch, say via London Bridge and Waterloo, but possibly too much extra expense.
Re another City Airport station: when Heathrow's 3rd (NW) runway opens, City Airport's runway may close to jets - being for small quiet electric short-haul aircraft instead. So it might not warrant an Elizabeth Line station...
Not looking at todays date Crowlands (a primary school) is between Chadwell Heath and Romford not further east and the other side of central Romford going towards Gidea Park
The idea of "crossrail 2" is interesting and it will probably be the next big thing. And by that I mean it will probably be built 50 or so years from now.
I can't help thinking those people who live outside London might get some transport projects if they elected people interested in representation rather than Daily Mail headlines.
I always enjoy your videos. However, living on the GE, I did pick up one error in your commentary (sorry) At about 2:15 you say Crowlands would have been between Romford and Gidea Park, in fact it would have been between Chadwell Heath and Romford (to the west of Romford not the east).
I always find it so interesting how UK and US rail systems went in different directions so early in their history. In the UK companies realized that the money was in moving people around while cargo came in 2nd place, while in the US freight was king from nearly the very beginning, and moving people was just something railroad companies did for extra money and to show off.
For many railways freight, and in particular coal, was king and certainly where the money was. But there are no coalfields in East Anglia, and little heavy industry, so the GER, like the companies south of the Thames, cultivated their commuter traffic instead. Which is why the Tube network is concentrated in north and west London, where the main line companies had bigger fish to fry.
Having lived in Barkingside for five years, I knew Ilford, and heard of Romford and Gidea Park. But not Crowlands. A place that size doesn't really need its own station.
They didn't. New transport infrastructure induces demand that wasn't previously there. Some people switch modes but also new journeys start happening that wouldn't have before, simply BECAUSE you can now do it more easily.
I have used, and loved, the Elizabeth Line since it opened but now find it impossible to understand how such a new, and expensive, line can be fully, or partly closed for maintenance most weekends. What sort of reliability do we have here? And what a farce!
@@seanbonella definitely! I just think it’s curious that the UK has such an extensive rail network that seems to be criminally underutilised, existing and potential!
A good name. Scotland could have Crow Road. Should be in a deep cutting between serious Banks. (No, nothing at all about the Victoria line, which is good if you want to go that way.
Now that you mention London City Airport again, can you please pass on to Rishi Sunak that a Cross/Purp/Liz station for the London City Airport would see it become the centre of electric aviation in the UK. Also, the Tate and Lyle factory is something of a dog's breakfast (to use an Australian term) in terms of layout, and sugar needs a bigger more efficient site elsewhere. A developer would be pleased to take the site off the owners hands for a large premium if it came with heritage preservation orders and the right to turn it into medium rise dwellings and a local shopping centre. Extra land for the station would be part of the deal as well as a pedestrian tunnel from the airport terminal to the station and the new shopping centre. Here is Jago's opportunity to advocate for better.
The site is west of Romford, in the direction of Chadwell Heath, not east, towards Gidea Park. Can I have back the three minutes of my life I spent looking for it on Google Maps satellite view?
I look forward to heading over to the UK one day to be able to ride the Elizabeth Line. You mentioned joke in the opening, was that your attempt at and April Fools video?
I’m a person outside London. I adore the Elizabeth Line since it was announced. I was so happy when it was finally open to the public.
I think the people who "dislike it" dislike the fact nowhere outside of London seems to ever get anything nice like this rather than the thing itself. I'm one of them. It isn't an either or thing either, as a country we can easily afford this and for similar lines to be built elsewhere in the country, the government just aren't interested in things outside of the M25 unless it brings direct benefits to London.
I live in the Cotswolds and frequently have to travel to the Excel centre. Paddington to Custom House now takes me 25 minutes instead of an hour. I LOVE the Elizabeth line!
@@TalesOfWar Agreed. No investment money north of Brum, as HS2 is showing. Does the government want everyone to live inside the M25?
@@street-levelNo, HS2 is still going to Manchester. There's the electrification of the Trans-Pennine route. And the completion of the Ordsall Chord. New trains for the Tyne and Wear Metro. New trains for Liverpool.
@@hairyairey And things are looking promising for the massive Clyde Metro scheme in and around Glasgow. Game changer for public transport in Scotland.
“This trains idea had legs” love it Mr Jago, your genius dazzles through my myopia.
I used to live near Crowland. It's a village in Lincolnshire, roughly half way between Spalding and Peterborough. Taking the Elizabeth line out there would be quite ambitious.
I know Crowland, my grandparents used to live in Bourne. I didn't know there was anywhere NEAR Crowland, though - it felt like the remotest place I've ever been to in the UK!
its near romford
It’s beyond ambitious - simply insane!
@@neiloflongbeck5705 None of them as there are many places with the same name, the county, Post Code these days tells them apart.
Lincolnshire was basically gutted of railways by an unmentionable Doctor...
Crowlands lives on in a tiny way on the Great Eastern line today - there's a neutral section (gap of overhead wire electricity supply) between Chadwell Heath and Romford known as 'Crowlands Neutral Section'!
15 chains or ~300m west of the station site. 😀
If the station had been built, the neutral section would have simply been further down the line
Those green belt nimbies are a menace. There are literally cars parked a stone's throw from the Crowlands site and those people could be using Crowlands station to travel both west and east.
That bridge, at Crowlands didn't seem to be wide enough to have four tracks and also space for an island platforms. I get the impression that the bridge would need more wiidening, on the Crossrail side. I hope they do it sometime. With electrified trains, it's not to hard to stop and start again.
I think that the Overground should be extended from Barking Riverside to Thamesmead (across the Thames) and also the Elizabeth line from Abbey Wood to Thamesmead.
Thamesmead
yep, so the powers that be stuck barking riverside on a viaduct , rather than a tunnel.
I think the Overground should be upgraded to DLR trains and signalling, though faster and with fewer stops.
I was at Barking Riverside yesterday. It doesn't look anywhere near high enough for the line to be extended while allowing tall-ish boats underneath.
@@highpath4776 Because it's very, very unlikely to be extended. Especially as the GOBLIN only sees 4tph.
Congratulations Jago! Something that merits a sentence in the history books is expanded to a six and half minute video. Just imagine what you could do with War & Peace!
Great video as always Jago, but it's not between Romford and Gidea Park it is between Romford and Chadwell Heath going in the other direction.
Glad I checked out the comments before stating the same. Does anyone have any links to the Romford Brewery track, that went under the main line before emerging on what is fast track to London now? Someone said it was the tightest curve in the country at the time. Can recall seeing trains on it back in the early 60s and some of the track still survived in the 'Battis' up until a few years ago.
This
@@donquixote2553 I can still remember walking from school on the London Road toward Romford town centre. If the wind was an easterly, you could smell the brewery long before you got anywhere near it.
@@englishciderlover7347 Loved the beer but hated that aroma! Always on a Thursday, no?
@@donquixote2553 I can't remember which day(s) of the week it was.
The Elizabeth Line is my favourite bus line. Sometimes it works as a rail service though
I live near Reading. It's not great for traveling into London but I love being able to get from Paddington to the Docklands so fast.
Is the fare from Reading to Paddington the same on the Intercity and semi-fast trains as it is on the Elizabeth Line? If so, I can see using the Elizabeth line being pretty pointless if Reading is your closest station, and also if you live near Slough.
My friend from Reading now uses Elizabeth Line daily to commute to work, but that is for West Drayton. For London it’s best to use GWR of course, and change at Paddington.
The island platforms thing would seem to explain a lot of stations that I used to go through when at Essex Uni (Colchester). Shame about Crowlands though. As my mother used to say "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
I'm ambivalent about the Elizabeth Line as I've not used it yet. It seems to me to be the kickstarter line to the rebranding of Londons Overground services.
Now there is a cool idea. The Overground could be the Charles, George, Edward, Henry and James Lines.
Interesting indeed to speculate how Crowlands would have done financially. It neatly filled a >2 mile gap between Chadwell Heath and Romford but had limited houses nearby plus factories and a park. It would probably have been one of the more lightly used stations. But if it had survived to the Elizabeth Line I can imagine lots of new housing construction on the brownfields sites as it's a sustainable location. An interesting equivalent was Angle Road which must have been one of London's least used stations when surrounded by industrial estates but has now been replaced by Meridian Water (and a new 3rd parallel track from Tottenham Hale) to serve new housing developments. As for the Elizabeth line, I travelled on it off-peak a couple of days ago and could barely get a seat. Admittedly the train had started at Heathrow so some of the seats were blocked by mega-luggage.
Angle Road? "Morning Angle" to quote Hot Fuzz 😂
most of those brownfield sites were highly containminated, mostly from the paint factories and other stuff.
What about the bridge at Whalebone Lane?
@@hairyairey Oooops, indeed Angel Road :)
@@iankemp1131 Not to worry Mr Messenger, it's all for the Greater Good...
I love the Elizabeth Line, for purely self-serving reasons. I live close to one end of the line (Berkshire) and someone I like to visit often lives almost at the other end. Using contactless payments under TFLs pricing structure has almost HALVED how much I need to pay, and I don't have to change a few times in central London, as long as I'm not in a hurry...
As I mentioned above, I live in the Midlands and I love the Elizabeth Line, but the fact is when so much money is spent on a project it ought to be totally amazing. And the rest of the country isn't getting the same level of investment as London has. For example the bus shelters in my local town look like they haven't been renovated for about 40 years, and it would probably cost about 0.000000000001% of the amount it cost to built CrossRail.
@@ajs41 come to Peterborough, we have bus shelters and bus stops with no buses. Yet a brand new shelter built at the penultimate stop of one route. Why? (Probably paid for by developers).
To add to the Elizabeth Line hate, earlier this week all trains to Shenfield were delayed due to a line side fire "in the Maidenhead area", despite these trains terminating at Paddington. That would never have happened when the Shenfield line terminated at Liverpool Street.
can the EL trains still divert to Liverpool Street national rail ?
@@highpath4776 Apparently not. There was a train in the sidings at Gidea Park, but it wasn't going anywhere. There are a couple of scheduled trains early in the morning that still go to Liverpool Street, but that's it.
Alternative Title: ‘Where The Crowlands Sing’.
For those in the north , remember also the barmy destruction by Beeching ? of the line to Saffron Walden, totally bonkers.
Never before have I heard "tantalising" used in such an apt way
The opening of the Liverpool & Manchester Rly proving that trains had legs was a wheely good idea.
Some really insightful insights into how the Great Eastern railway started. Fast forward to the present day it's become one of the busiest lines.
I used to go through there all time as a kid when I lived in Rush Green as we used it to get to London Road avoiding the path that passed the old gas works
Wonderful video, well done Jago. I'm quite close to London but firmly outside. I love the Elizabeth line just because it is interesting
There are eight million stories in the naked city. This has been one of them. Can't be many more left now.
@Peter John Cooper Oh ye of little faith! You underestimate the investigative resourcefulness of Jago!
@@aprilsmith1166 Of course. You are absolutely right.
I still haven't traveled the entire Elizabeth line yet, it's my goal for this year.
Fascinating. Having used the line into Liverpool Street my entire life, I never knew that a station was proposed at Crowlands.
However, without the hospital being built it's hard to see there would be much demand for it back then and even toda
It sits a short equidistance between Romford and Chadwell Heath and Romford is well served by both the Elizabeth Line and Greater Anglia services, as such it is a far busier station than Chadwell Heath, which even though it now has far more frequent Elizabeth Line services is still a relatively quiet station; time will tell, but I suspect that as long as Green Belt development restrictions remain in place, the major effect of the Elizabeth Line will be to raise house prices all along its route which it has been doing ever since it was being developed.
Definitely a fascinating what-if, if this station were ever to be made. Who knows if it would have survived, or if Beeching would have taken his dreaded axe to it - then again, London's commuter rails were generally not too badly hit by that.
Great video!
Great video Jago 👍
I think that Crowlands is too close to Romford to have merited the expense. Especially as it's got Chadwell Heath close too. Gidea Park, whilst also being close to Romford at roughly the same distance, had the advantage of having more potential commuters to traverse its platforms. Crowlands land is mostly a giant cemetery, with a giant park nearby in Rush Green and Rush Green commuters are a wild card as they have the option of Dagenham East Station. Great video! 😊
Trains have legs (1:18)? Surely they have wheels? (Apart from Brunton's Mechanical Traveller of 1815, which distinguished itself not just by having legs but in killing the largest number of people in a UK locomotive boiler explosion - at least 13, mainly sightseers, in Philadelphia - County Durham, not Pennsylvania.)
I am waiting for Jago's vid on this, I am sure the intro is a set up for it, though Volk's high water transport at Brighton he has already covered is a sort of honurable second place hybrid of legs with wheels on
@@highpath4776 We shall see! Volk's Daddy-Long-Legs was an utterly amazing contraption and there is nothing quite like it. Boat, train or pier? It makes the Mechanical Traveller seems quite pedestrian by comparison (***joke***) but also there is not much info about the latter because of its early date and sad end.
I am from and live ‘up North and am a complete Elizabeth Line fan boy. ❤
If Crowlands had been built it would definitely have been used by people heading to the hospital, And maybe, because that, the hospital would have grown in size and importance, maybe developing some specialist wards that focused on research of sleep apnoea or virology. But maybe this would have led to an unfortunate mingling of patients with what, on the surface, was a harmless rash, but when mixed created what the World feared most, the Zombie Virus. Suddenly Crowlands would have been ground Zero of a devastating epidemic that would have culled civilisation during the 60s thus depriving the World of The Monkees, in-line roller skates and all future rail development. And that would have led us to be without the Elizabeth Line and, I fear, your regular videos. Thank goodness Crowlands was never built!
@ua-cam.com/channels/dXecHEIRJaMJXgTffPbm2Q.html Thought you were describing Romford residents there
Been watching far too many pandemic movies I see! 😂
You forgot those who are buried in their mobile phones, the Phone Zombie generation.
Brilliant piece of work, Mark. Hope to see more of your beautifully constructed and well argued pieces below more videos.
You're correct in your assumption that Crowlands is an inherently creepy name
Some years ago during the original 'Crossrail' planning, there was a proposal to build a new train maintenance depot on the tract of land to the south side between Allen's Ford workshops and the up main. There were all sorts of artists impressions in the Romford Recorder newspaper and local media at the time. However, it proved an expensive option and challenging operationally. So, like the station it never took place. Incidentally, I understand that Justums Lane was a local variation of Judson's Lane - whoever Mr. Judson was - and Crowlands was originally known as 'Crownlands' as much of the land in the area had early Royal connections - but don't quote me on it!
A London City Airport station would be super useful, but I guess it will only ever happen if LCY foot most of the bill (especially after LHR did so for their station) - so I won’t hold my breath.
The now gone Silvertown station was once an embarkation point for London City Airport and about where the old station was, is a structure that might be for ventilation. In fact, London City Airport was REFUSED permission by TfL to build and fund a Silvertown station in 2016.
tbh I dont think city airport needs any more promotion, thamesmead should get it
@@contrapunctusmammalia3993 Agreed, Thamesmead would see more passenger traffic however it will not be cheap to build a railway line there.
Growing up just round the corner from Jutsums lane I sure would have found this station useful 😂
Fascinating video though, never knew there were ever plans!
To get back to Windsor from London City Airport took DLR to Woolwich and it was a short walk to the Elizabeth line.
Used to go to a car boot sale near the should-have-been Crowlands station
As a non-londoner any 'dislike' is purely because it's a vast expensive project that could have had the funds directed elsewhere. And aside from reducing the journey times of the best served people in the country all it seems to have done so far is reduced the service pattern of the other lines.
There are some lovely old photos of steam trains passing Crowlands Signal Box, which is perhaps surprising, as it can't have been easy to get to that location in the 1920s, especially lugging an old-fashioned plate camera.
A station there wouldn't have got much business - it's mostly industrial units. I think I once picked a car up from Allen's of Romford near there.
Not living in London, I would like to learn more about the land cleared for HS2 at Euston. In Southampton there are never used and abandoned railway embankments built by the GWR to extend their line from Winchester to Southampton Docks. Partially built and abandoned railway lines have a long heritage.
Even more interesting was the former roadside buildings along Euston Road before Euston Tower and the Flyover were built. Benny Green used to talk about it on his London Weekend programs about London and his Radio 2 radio program but I dont know if recordings survived.
Looks like a good piece of Railway. Reminds me of our Former PRR and Reading Company Suburban lined outside Philadelphia.
*LINES* 🙄
@@StevensPaul you know, you can edit your comment on UA-cam? This ain't Rumble!
@@BroonParker This Computer 🖥️💻 is still New to me 🤪!
I find it curious that they started building an island platform station and yet the tracks today are dead straight with no room for a platform. Did they realign the tracks back straight again after the construction was abandoned?
if you look at the road bridge, there’s a fringe of green that looks to be big enough for another track. presumably the platform would have been quite narrow, and possibly lightly built enough (of wood?) that re-straightening the tracks wasn’t too difficult
Lived very near this site in fact my children went to Crowlands primary school, interesting to hear there could have been a station here, very handy, hated the walk to Romford station
Crowlands. Great name. Gothically ominous.
@ Bay Stated rather too Gothic.
There was a Wolf's Castle Halt on the line from Fishguard to Carmarthen.
as a ladbroke grove resident, seeing “the elizabeth line station that could’ve been” got my hopes up you’d be talking about the proposed kensal town station, only for it to be heartlessly dashed by this place in the middle of nowhere. perhaps a future topic given the new development going in around there?
I wish someone would do what you do but for Berlin! It's so relaxing 🙂
Thanks-very informative as always.
Very interesting, I do a lot of compliance work and Allen Ford at Jetsums lane was one of my sites to inspect, there is a lot of Network Rail access points on their land that cannot have anything parked in front of them and I always thought this was weird that they accessed the track from inside Allen Ford. I would guess if there were plans for a historic station that never came to anything then the historic rights of way would still exist within the lease plans to BR. I have quite a few photos from inside the car park that I guess anyone could get, but may raise questions amongst the staff if you start nosing about the car park.
Honestly would had been interesting IF Crowlands went ahead. Shame it didn't happen, great video
There was an article some years ago in" london railway record" about the proposed Crowlands station. The writer even did a reconstruction of what the station would look like if it had been completed, even down to the running-in boards
The London Railway Record July 2001,:page 83, issue no 28 "The Unfinished Station At Crowlands" by J.E. Connor
...'the trains idea had legs'.... a definite Boom-Tish for that one!
Was the new hospital the one I used to work at and I cannot remember the name of, its now been knocked down and replaced with another one...
That probably was Oldchurch, replaced by Queens. They are/were both in Romford, quite close to the station.
@@michaelbaker2465 that was it, in my defence I was 16, so thirty years is a long time ago 🤷🏻♂️🦧😊
Ah, Crowlands is one I rarely ever hear get mentioned. I think it could probably be just about justified these days, especially if the industrial estate is redeveloped. Would be good to have a video on the proposed North Kensington station too!
I believe at one time there was a station at Crowlands, not sure if is was when Eastern Counties Railway existed or after. On the Down Electric side under brambles, I've been told are the remnants of an original platform.
You are sort of correct - it’s the unfinished construction for this station.
@@JagoHazzard Does Jay Foreman Know ?
I think Crowlands station would have been a good idea. It would be relatively close to the local B&M and Asda where I sometimes go to get Hot Wheels.
Have you seen today work has started on making Motspur Park station disabled friendly , looks like one of the identikit lift pairs and bridges with the brick effect panelling with just under a 18month timescale to do. Its worth at look at Motspur Park, hopefully the old southern footbridge can go to another preserved railway .
Ah the old fabled reopening of Blackbird Halt
Quote of the Day: “It’s always nice to speculate.”
Jutsum: is that the surname of some local farmer whose lane/farm was enveloped by the new community (think Daniel Rayner at Rayner's Lane)? I love regional names: where we used to live, in Hereford, one regularly found Taysom & Snowzell - never seen them anywhere else.
Samuel and Edward Jutsum are listed on the Romford parish records for 1848 as local farmers, and the lane is named after them. It's probably of Devonshire origin.
@@Tevildo Thank you!
Maybe ask Sadiq Khan and TfL to rebuild and reopen Crowlands station that would serve nearby Romford Stadium. I’m pretty sure that a new railway station at Crowlands is planned to be built just for the Elizabeth Line. Whilst Greater Anglia trains would pass through the newly reopened station.
I ❤️the Elizabeth Line but I’m currently in Ecuador on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. 0:23
I would like to see a railway station where London City Airport is...but I would also like to see the airport closed and council housing, parks and shops built the full length of the runway.
The Elizabeth Line saved my bacon back in November when all the tubes were on strike and I needed to get to Heathrow.
if I had a pound for every time a railway station was proposed to serve hospitals just outside Greater London but never happened, I'd have £2 - which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
Positively spooky.
Tantalisingly getting closer to that woodham to Maldon line that once was.
If it wasn't for this video, I wouldn't have heard of Crowlands, and I live in east London!
Great video Jago
My school was just along from Crowlands. It would have been between Romford and Chadwell Heath, surely. Gidea Park is towards Brentwood.
Is there anything of interest between Romford and Gidea Park. In Passing does Chadwell Heath still have the railway club there ?
Not much apart from suburbia. I don't know about the club.
My only wish is that the EL would have been routed south of the River ie the Abbey Wood to Reading branch, say via London Bridge and Waterloo, but possibly too much extra expense.
That could have simplified some of the South Eastern's Dartford Loop for it.
Re another City Airport station: when Heathrow's 3rd (NW) runway opens, City Airport's runway may close to jets - being for small quiet electric short-haul aircraft instead. So it might not warrant an Elizabeth Line station...
Not looking at todays date Crowlands (a primary school) is between Chadwell Heath and Romford not further east and the other side of central Romford going towards Gidea Park
Might need an Elizabeth line station at Old Oak - seems like H2S will never make it to Euston
That is already the plan! There will be two Elizabeth line platforms. :)
@@HarryLangers 4 actually
@@HarryLangers Will Acton Main Line close ?
Crowlands is between Romford and Chadwell Heath, Gidea Park is on the other side of Romford.
The idea of "crossrail 2" is interesting and it will probably be the next big thing. And by that I mean it will probably be built 50 or so years from now.
I can't help thinking those people who live outside London might get some transport projects if they elected people interested in representation rather than Daily Mail headlines.
1:16 pretty sure it had wheels mate.
I always enjoy your videos. However, living on the GE, I did pick up one error in your commentary (sorry) At about 2:15 you say Crowlands would have been between Romford and Gidea Park, in fact it would have been between Chadwell Heath and Romford (to the west of Romford not the east).
I always find it so interesting how UK and US rail systems went in different directions so early in their history. In the UK companies realized that the money was in moving people around while cargo came in 2nd place, while in the US freight was king from nearly the very beginning, and moving people was just something railroad companies did for extra money and to show off.
For many railways freight, and in particular coal, was king and certainly where the money was. But there are no coalfields in East Anglia, and little heavy industry, so the GER, like the companies south of the Thames, cultivated their commuter traffic instead.
Which is why the Tube network is concentrated in north and west London, where the main line companies had bigger fish to fry.
Having lived in Barkingside for five years, I knew Ilford, and heard of Romford and Gidea Park. But not Crowlands. A place that size doesn't really need its own station.
Crowlands would be a badass name for a station.
"Proved that these train things have legs"
Fairly sure if trains had legs they'd be a hell of a lot slower than they are now 😂
In next weeks episode: Geoff Marshall wants to know when the 'LizPurp' as he alone calls it will reach Corrour....
My brother lives near Jutsums Lane and I’ve never heard of it called crowlands, is it coz it’s off Crow Lane?
Also it’s to near Romford Station, like a 12 minute walk.
On London Road, at the top end of Jutsums Lane, there's Crowlands Post Office and Crowlands Primary School. Your brother can't get out much. lol
@@peterdean8009 We're from Upminster and he's only lived in Romford for a couple of years.
when you see precisely how many people are using the elizabeth line it's a wonder that many people could cram on to other services before it opened.
They didn't. New transport infrastructure induces demand that wasn't previously there. Some people switch modes but also new journeys start happening that wouldn't have before, simply BECAUSE you can now do it more easily.
Equally, had someone decided to that the station ought to have been built, they could have also renamed it to the rather stunning 'Jutsum'.
I have used, and loved, the Elizabeth Line since it opened but now find it impossible to understand how such a new, and expensive, line can be fully, or partly closed for maintenance most weekends. What sort of reliability do we have here? And what a farce!
its prob the NR End bits , track does wear out and outside of the new tunnels its still the old stuff
I think the topic of ‘have been’ stations would be good to explore in contrast to the ‘could have beens’
@@seanbonella definitely! I just think it’s curious that the UK has such an extensive rail network that seems to be criminally underutilised, existing and potential!
A good name. Scotland could have Crow Road. Should be in a deep cutting between serious Banks.
(No, nothing at all about the Victoria line, which is good if you want to go that way.
Surely 'this train idea had wheels' (rather than legs)?
What happened with the mooted station of North Kensington? Would probably provided a more viable market than this proposal
Now that you mention London City Airport again, can you please pass on to Rishi Sunak that a Cross/Purp/Liz station for the London City Airport would see it become the centre of electric aviation in the UK. Also, the Tate and Lyle factory is something of a dog's breakfast (to use an Australian term) in terms of layout, and sugar needs a bigger more efficient site elsewhere. A developer would be pleased to take the site off the owners hands for a large premium if it came with heritage preservation orders and the right to turn it into medium rise dwellings and a local shopping centre. Extra land for the station would be part of the deal as well as a pedestrian tunnel from the airport terminal to the station and the new shopping centre. Here is Jago's opportunity to advocate for better.
I wonder how long it will be until someone uploads a trainz version 😂
Let's hope the same is eventually true of HS2, which is being built about 2 miles from where I live in the Midlands.
Interesting video here. 👍
"If the new railway had legs.. " it would have been a first!
I walk outside and all i see is lines. Lines all around. Nothing but lines.
You must live in Acton.
Where is Acton? I can only find a Acton in Canberra
I think they would have needed to change the name of the station from Crowlands.
The site is west of Romford, in the direction of Chadwell Heath, not east, towards Gidea Park. Can I have back the three minutes of my life I spent looking for it on Google Maps satellite view?
No, because you could have read the video description.
@@JagoHazzard Meanie! I'll not watch the first three minutes of yur next video! That'll teach you!
JAGO: Your speculations are just as contemplative as your facts and research!!
Crow lands is between Romford and Chadwell HEATH not Gidea Park.
Someone didn’t read the video description!
@@JagoHazzard some of us play wordle while listening to vids, so we never see the on screen flash-ups
@@highpath4776 How rude.
I look forward to heading over to the UK one day to be able to ride the Elizabeth Line.
You mentioned joke in the opening, was that your attempt at and April Fools video?