To be honest, I doubt he'll respond to them all. More likely Shogo will show clips of the videos he noticed. Shogo gives off the energy that he doesn't watch as much as he makes videos. Seki-sensei doesn't seem like an internet guy at all lol. I really do hope that they watch them though.
@@MasoTrumoi I would be surprised if they answer, it would be extremely cool, but in the UA-cam environment it’s rare to see someone bigger than you creating a dialogue between channels, generally speaking.
@@FedericoMalagutti True, response videos used to be a thing but the algorithm killed it. Now someone can make a response video and not get seen by the source video uploader unless they get tagged directly, linked in the response video description, or mutual viewership points it out. As far as Shogo and Seki-sensei not being internet guys, I mean, they're busy training. They make content during their free time. Hopefully we get more cross discussions for various blade systems around the world. For sometime now it's just been HEMA and FMA, Kenjutsu entering the fray is like opening the floodgates for other systems to follow the discussion and create a better community for us all. At least, way better than fanboys with gear, takes a few lessons, feel like an expert and never train again just shitposting and thinking their system is the be all and end all of swordsmanship.
Im a Kenjutsu/ Iaijutsu instructor and I have started training under Seki Sensei last spring. I also tried to learn the Kriegs messer and gross messer in n mine (no HEMA schools around me) and I have found mostly similarities and picked up some me new methods I have used successfully in Kenjutsu sparing. I also use the messers more like a Daisho in free practice. I love it when egos can subside and learning from other styles can begin.
@@FedericoMalagutti Well fortunately Seki Sensei's video seems to have helped in that regard, as after having seen a few replies to his original video your channel now seems to be popping up in the recommended column more often. Obviously it's anecdotal since I can't see any analytics, but maybe there'll be an uptick in new subscribers like myself in the coming weeks.
It is very refreshing to see after many years people from both HEMA and Japanese background discussing their weapons, their impressions, in a very polite, educated and "academic" setting. I apprecciate the respect and the insights shared in a humble way, and the push towards learning more on both sides. This is much more heart warming than the usual, nasty and toxic "fanboying" discussion that have been carried over the years on the (in)famous "katana vs longsword" debate where the sole reason behind it was to undermine one over the other. You earned a subscriber! I apprecciate that you also studied Japanese martial arts in the past and aim to be a better, well rounded swords man. Keep it up!
Couldn't agree more! I'm pretty new to the sword arts community but I was getting a lot of toxic vibes from many comment sections. I'm pleased that Seki sensei is very open minded and curious, and that they approached the long sword from that mindset of pure curiosity. It primed this wave of discussion and reactions to be open, polite and informative rather than combative or hostile. No one is claiming one is superior to the other, just talking about differences, downsides and benefits. Most practitioners know that in the end, regardless of the weapon or school, it comes down to the individual, and don't waste time squabbling about what's superior to what. This is how the topic should be approached, and I'm loving seeing all these big HEMA guys reacting so positively to their video!
The whole debate with longswords vs katanas pretty much stems from backlash after weebs mindlessly gushed over the katana and exaggerated it's effectiveness as a sword. We've now reached the other side of the skepticism hill where we acknowledge the katana as an impressive sword for a continent with very impure iron. Even when there were more effective weapons on the battlefield at the time, the katana is an iconic weapon in Asian media similar to how the revolver is an iconic gun in Wild West media.
I think the sword/weapon community is doing what the unarmed community did 30ish years ago = which started with silly arguing, then some academic style analysis.. followed by actual meetups and sparing, then cross style competition and now we have MMA. I truly look forward to seeing fencers VS kendo VS longsword VS some big Scot with a claymore in a legitimate competition - with all the appropriate safety gear of course!
@@TheCrimsonElite666 Each weapon has its own purpose and style of use Although both longsword and katana are similar, they are also different who is better? bow and arrow and ultimately the spear is better than both, as confirmed by historical facts from the battlefield * in Europe, swords are specialized as short sword, long sword and sabre katana would be a compromise between a longsword and a sabre * what is an interesting fact that no one ever mentions in such videos is the length of the blade, not all swords are the same, each sword is "tailored" for the owner, so a person who is 150 cm tall does not have the same long blade on a longsword as a person who is 200 cm tall height then the specialization of the sword, whether it is for a footman or a horseman, because for a horseman it must be longer, and it usually stays on the horse next to the saddle
using the false edge to cut the hand is also something Seki-sensi does in another video, showing how his school quickly shifts sword position to account for only using a single-edged blade. Fascinating that the same maneuver exists with such fundamentally different weapons, adjusted just a hair to make it work
This used to be an argument............I love that it's gotten to this now where it is a respectful comparison. (beyond that though, it seems to have become a desire to learn from each side) It's beautiful.
Second time watching, commenting for the Algorithm, but also to praise Sensei Sekei for the joy and humility with which he approached and enjoyd his new "toy". That is how a true Master approaches all learning. He definately deserve the love and appreciation the HEMA community has shown.
Thank you for making this reaction video! I am so glad Seki sensei's video has sparked this wave of discussion in the kenjutsu and HEMA communities! I am training with Seki sensei through their online course and we have been thrilled with the reactions you and others have given. I hope this video reaction dialog continues, I find it all very fascinating!
Thanks ! I practice Kendo and naginata, I have friend how practice HEMA and is very very intersting to exchange together. I love the similarity and your video is very cool for more understinding
It was very interesting to see how Seki-sensei interacted with the longsword, reverse engineering its purpose and the problems it was designed to solve. I think if he spent some more time with it, he would deduce the techniques with the false edge, among others, which would be very similar to those in HEMA. It was also interesting how he pointed out the different weight distribution due to ridges and used bokken to slap the opponent's longsword sideways - I think he meant that one needs to apply this kind of hit closer to the tip of the blade. Compared to katana, which has ridges stretched all along the blade (it is stated that kenjutsu relies heavily on this kind of parrying), the longsword can be easier to push aside with this particular technique - again, it is longer and thus requires more strength to steer the tip under pressure because of physics. But the same physics allows for rapid changes in cut directions, so it is an understandable trade-off in merits.
before i started with hema, i was doing kenjutsu and once i started in hema, most specifically with fiore, i immediately started to notice the similarities in poste and kamae. many of them are nearly identical. even when you look at translated manuscripts from japan like the ones from yamamoto kansuke, it is clear many of the stances shown are not very different from the ones in fiore manuscripts for example. the differences i think are mostly in the delivery of the strikes and parries. because of the katanas deferential hardening process, the edge was (and is) extremely hard but brittle. because of this, to my understanding, it was preferred to parry with the flat of the blade or the spine of the blade to avoid catastrophic damage to the blade edge (keep in mind that katana are also associated with shinto deities, so damaging one was essentially an offense against the gods, something to avoid at all costs if possible). you can see seki sensei do this even with the longsword when he does a move similar to the zornhau. he smacks the opponents blade with the flat of the blade. even when he attempts to half sword, notice he held his hand over the flat. this is because in kenjutsu you would hold the hand over the spine, which is not sharp. longswords do not have a blunt false edge, so seki sensei was adjusting and applying what he knew to the longsword and attempting to hold the non-sharp part of the blade, the flat
While I do believe you have a point, I think it is worth to add more context to the topic of edge brittleness. The issue you mention is a feature of some swords of the Edo period belonging to the shintō group (新刀) that were made from the mid 17th century onward. These blades favoured high carbon steel with extensive wide hamon that increased the artistic value of the blade at the cost of its durability. This problem was actually tackled by Japanese smiths during the late 18th and 19th century with a movement known as fukkotō (復古刀) by Suishinshi Masahide and the development of the shinshintō sword tradition (新々刀). His whole take was to restore the swords of the past (kotō, 古刀) due to their better functionality. His tests were extremely harsh and you can read online what was expected to be done (there is an article translated known as extreme aratameshi - few swords managed to achieve quite impressive stuff). When looking at these kotō era blades, we can apprecciate carbon content of less %, monosteel structure or simple lamination and less hard edges, paired with more stout edge geometry (known as niku, 肉) that prevent significant edge damage. These blades were after all forged into a period in which armor was prevalent in the battlefield. In that sense, while ideally you want to preserve the edge, you will not risk such catastrophic failure. In fact, the argument of preserving the edge is sound up until you consider that once you are swinging the blade against your opponent, you will meet his edge or his flat and the blade could still chip if it would be very hard. Another point is that longsword forged in the European tradition are not immune to dramatic failure if the edge is struck. Being of monosteel structure in some cases, if there is a crack on the edge it will propagate within the whole blade and cause breaking. This is less common with Japanese sword as there are multiple phases of the steel that react differently to the crack, stopping its propagation. The guys at the Arms & Armor channel did some test on sharp edge to edge contact and the sword got damaged, with further swinging leading to snapping. Mind you we are talking 3-4 hits edge to edge and less than 10 general hits to targets and the blade failed. This was a modern made blade, much more consistent than their medieval counterpart. To conclude, there are edge to edge actions within some kenjutsu schools although flat parries are favoured (this has to do also with the shinogi, the thickness of the blade and its balance, not only preserving the edge). And at the same time, you do have actions with the flat in longsword tradition and the use of side rings as well in the guard. Cheers!
@@lucanic4328 that was a good history lesson. Thank you 😄 of course european swords weren't immune to catastrophic failure, probably as much or even more so depending on the maker and steel quality. Even with today's steel i have seen several blades break in sparring sessions. About 2 longsword broken at the middle point and about 4 rapiers breaking at the middle, just over the tang, at the pommel and one had the cup in the crossguard broken, but blade was fine. I even saw two blades snap within the same class 😅 keep in mind these are heavily abused
@@badrequest5596 you are welcome - I think it is always good to share info on the world of Japanese swords as it is a topic that is both heavily "mystified" or dismissed entirely. As a note I think many modern manufacturers produce full hardened tangs which are not found on historical European swords, as they were often made of softer steel and not hardened. This is quite substantial as you can have blade failure at the tang resulting in the whole blade flying away - quite dangerous! I'd recommend to always check if the tang is hardened if possible and anneal it (heating it to temperature and let it cool by air). This will increase the durability of the sword! But I think modern manufacturers are also slowly changing their practice
I wonder whether that difference in tradition isnt due more to economics, esp in early modern times, when those traditions were formalized in Japan. Swords were soo much more expensive in Japan, as getting good iron and then steel (as well as plenty of charcoal) always was easier and cheaper in central Europe, with the 2 'Ore Mountains' (Erzberg) in Austria and Salzburg providing high quantities of high quality ore (with very little sulfur but quite a bit of manganese in some locations) since Roman times (ferum noricum). After 1550, that difference went through the roof as water powered furnaces in Austria could produce ever larger pieces of iron blooms in one go (up from 50-100kg in 1500 to >2t by the 1620s, though average size was more around 800kg, as that was easier to handle), and the downstream industry upsized in tandem with that development. Before Ferdinand 1 embargoed exports of steel products to the Ottomans, Austria alone exported > 2 million knifes per year in that direction, and makers of simple swords / kriegsmesser were using the same water powered processes to upscale production. Sure there were also swords that were works of art in Europe after 1550. But in the general thinking swords became rather mundane.
One thing that always fascinated me about Katanas was the iaijutsu techniques, this idea of quickly drawing your blade so you can strike as fast as possible. I haven't seen many of these techniques with European swords, but with the double edge blades and cross handle, they're better off in terms of defending, clashing and counter attacking. Either way, I really enjoyed watching all these videos.
I think most people as about that because of the different styles. Asian martial arts tend to use more deflection in order to protect the blade cutting edge. While in HEMA it seems you preferer to block the blade of the adversary and move from that while holding the other blade with your sword.
Generally speaking is true, we have a lot of deflections too though, but there's not too much care for the edge, the concept of binding (edge on edge contact) is quite important in HEMA, especially among Germans, italians shares slightly more similarities with Japanese styles.
My speculation is since the longsword tapers a lot more at the tip, blocking with the flat causes the sword to wobble more as it’s not as stable. The katana, having a thicker blade, is more rigid which encourages deflections with the flat. On the flip side, the katana has a really hard edge which is nice for cutting but also makes it more brittle while the longsword having a tougher edge (and is structurally more rigid when hitting that way) encourages more edge deflection.
@@gameragodzilla well, you anyway parry with the strong part of the blade, being the blade wobbly or not at the tip in all honesty doesn’t change a lot ^^
@@FedericoMalagutti Fair, though I would figure if you were some distance away, you’d have to parry with the upper end of the blade anyways, where the wobbliness would be the most prominent with a flat deflection. The katana being thicker and more rigid is the only thing I can think of for the difference between the two styles.
@@gameragodzilla we in Europe had plenty of iron an coal, while swords were pricy if compared to other simpler tools, such as axes, they were anyway far, far more accessible and easy to substitute when broken or damaged compared to the same for Katanas in Japan, were resources were few and, on average, of lower quality, compared to Europe. Plus humidity was harsh on steel. This truly helped developing sn utmost obsessive care for weapons, especially the most complex to make, such as the sword. Most probably that’s why most Japanese sword styles have such an obsessive care for their edge.
Iado (sword drawing into attack/defense) is supposedly an evolution of the Edo period, in which samurai were rarely battlefield fighters but duelists and, on occasion, subject to surprise assassination attempts (particularly if the political station was higher). The idea was to be prepared to respond to attacks and enter combat at any moment, even while sitting and eating a meal. (More importantly, I think it gave the samurai something additional to think about and train towards - because that's essentially all there was for them to do.)
I have always wondered about draw techniques for long swords since as a stinkin’ Texan, my primary context for self defense sidearms are handguns, and an important technique for handguns is draw speed. It’s important both for practical reasons since I’m likely not going to have my gun drawn already when I need it, and also mythologized with the old West cowboy that can outdraw everyone and become “the fastest gun in the West”. I always figured if swords are personal self defense weapons the same way handguns are, and backup sidearms on the battlefield, that speed drawing would be important the same way quick drawing handguns are important skills in modern combat. The Japanese very much developed that with the katana so I wonder why it wasn’t that commonplace elsewhere. Best explanation I could find was most manuals were written for more “formal” duels where opponents would pre-draw their swords, while Japanese samurai were forbidden to draw their swords unless attacked first. Which is more in line with laws regarding handguns today where drawing a gun without reason is called brandishing and very illegal.
Excellent presentation! I am amazed at the similarities between Japanese and European swordsmanship. Many of the stances are very similar as are things like pressure on the blade, beats, etc. The relaxed stance with the grip at the chest is hasso no kamae in Japanese. I recall the cut with the false edge under the wrist being common in sabre fencing. Thanks for sharing that.
several years ago i visited cortona, a city in italy, and at the second floor of the museo dell'accademia et-rusca there was a perfectly finished rapier 1,5 m long, forged in layers, as damascus steel, katanas and jians are forged, and that weapon had a concave equlateral triangular shape in cross section, with three sharp cutting edges. the sword is probably stil exhibited there, one floor over the gino severini exhibition... just saying
what impresses me the most is how seki sensei has earned the respect of so many people without having to brag or anything like it, we all admire him not only as a sworsdman but as a man!
Another simple reason the cross guard is aligned with the blade edge, is for carrying while sheathed. Imagine how much it would get caught on things while traveling.
@@NevisYsbrydthat would actually explain why rings and the nagel are over the knuckle more than over the thumb and fingers. I always wonderes, cause I would wamt it on the other side. The amount of incidental thumb hits I get is annoying as fuck.
the cross guard has another purpose since the knights had armored gloves, you grab the sword by the blade and then use the cross guard as a hook to knock down the opponent the technique is dangerous and demanding, but if you can surprise your opponent and throw him on his back, you practically won the duel
Dopo 20 anni di arti marziali con una spada in mano ho sviluppato molte, certo meno corrette e approssimative, "filosofie" di approcci nei vari momenti, sarà perchè la cinetica fisiologica umana è quella! ci sono manuali basso medievali di scherma italiana? un mondo mi si apre :) complimenti
There are a few European sources that deal with quickdrawing swords, although most of them are from the 17th century onwards, with a scarce few prior to that; however, battojutsu is also actually mostly a 17th century and onwards practice. European practice appears to have never emphasized it to remotely the same extent as Japanese battojutsu, though.
Notably, a lot of longswords are far less optimal for quickdrawing than katanas. blade curvature appears to have a negligible significance; rather, it is largely a factor of the blade length, handle length, and the flexibility and positioning of the suspension method. Katana are about the longest blade length possible before the blade length begins to seriously obstruct and slow the draw and the suspension system is about as optimized for quickdrawing as possible. You can do most of this with a European hand-and-a-half sword, though, which has similar dimensions and comparable handling, although you would want to pick a suitable suspension system.
It's not super-easy to find sources. Also they are most of the times had been wrote by people following the Zen way of Buddhism, so the text are, in general, more useful to let you understand if you already know something, rather than actually teaching you something (most of the times). Anyway, you can easily find on the web this three books: Book of Five Rings - Miyamoto Musashi The Sword that gives life - Yagyu Munenori The Twelve rules of the sword - Ito Ittosai But I consider them reads more useful to the experienced swordsman, so, based to your experience, they could be very useful or not useful at all.
@@FedericoMalagutti ah ok awesome thank you so much! I already study Longsword and sabre so I already have a little knowledge so I'll give these books ago I'm sure I'll be able to get something from it haha!
I am not sure if this is accurate or not, was told this 20 years ago, but is there a certain sword length based on the individual, kind of like a bow’s draw length is based on an individuals arm measurement? If so, I would enjoy seeing a video about this. 😊
I mean, it's a matter of preference and tradition in the end. Katanas basically were subject to size limitation laws after a certain period, so swords and styles from that point on would generally involve similarly sized swords, whereas earlier samples that were more based on Chinese curved war swords usually had wildly varying blade lengths, curvature, hilt length.
The few people who could afford a custom-made sword would probably give prefered mesurements and thus the sword would be tailored to their height, but for most people the sword they'd buy would be from a variety of already forged swords made with the mindset "a sword is about this long", as they weren't that focussed on exact and consistent mesurements. So if you were tall, either have the bladesmith forge you a bigger sword but that will cost you more, or hope for one of the swords aviable for purchase to be longer than the others.
i think that the lack of drawing technique for hema comes from the fact that a longsword is battlefield/sparring weapong, so generally you combat while having it already out, plus is quite unwieldy to carry it around for self defense, due to his relatively large size. The katana, on the other hand, is basically made for self defense, so its shorter (generally speaking), plus there are other factor. like how the scabbard is carried, attached etc. so you would carry it everywhere, hence the large number of katana drawing techniques
Mmmmmhhh, I don’t know, the Longsword in war is far from being a main weapon, it’s a side weapon which you rely on only when you lose the main one. I think drawing techniques are simply not there because of how social violence was carried out in general, the filters Japanese and, say, Italian nobility had while talking about violence in peace times were extremely different.
@@FedericoMalagutti true. But when i said battlefield i meant that it was more likely to carry it around while going to war, than for regular strolls around the city.
European swords were not much specialized for civil or military purpose until the 16th century; a sword was a sword. And then, civil swords generally meant rapiers (or later, smallswords). Longswords were already largely gone from both civilian and military use by the time that either Europe or Japan began emphasizing quickdrawing much. While I agree that the quickdrawing technique was less of a military practice (most of the Japanese development of it was during a period of relatively little open warfare and instead law enforcement and assassination), that does not really explain the comparative dearth of it in Europe. Katanas are optimal for defending from sudden close attacks with a held weapon-attacked in confined spaces, ambushes or assassinations. Besides the difference in political stability in Europe at the time, other weapons were popular for assassinations-crossbows, or famously, wheellock pistols. We also do have some material covering sword quickdraw techniques from this time-if far less of it and a much more rudimentary approach.
@@FedericoMalagutti I think @lucaf5255 makes a good point, since most Ryua were developed in the 400 years of peace following the togukawa unification of japan, something no european nation ever experienced. I could see one technique, were Seki Sensei was cutting to the inside of the kote, which is actually meant to fight an armored opponent but I would assume that most of the drawing techniques are aiming specificly to civil or courdial setting. I don´t think fechtbücher/manuals are a representation of all fencing techniques of that period, since they often refer to judicial combat, but I would guess that european techniques couldn´t be as refined because they had to be aplicable in many situations including warfare.
I would argue that the focus on draw-cuts is closer related to pistol quick draw than historical sword techniques, where I imagine there would have been some degree of honor associated with striking a man down before he can even draw his sword to face you outside of a battlefield. Samurai movies transitioned into Western movies transitioned into action movies like John Wick.
I offer this. Only the very experienced will have a chance to gain from it. There are really no styles. There is since ancient times one fist. It has qualities. Nothing more or less than what is the ability. It is universal.
That's exactly what I was trying to say under many videos "katana vs longsword" and they were insulting me, but these people have no idea what's purpose of big crossguard, they just use long sword like a katana, but it's not katan! So crossguard doesn't help them much. I was saying exactly as you, that in real fight (not hema play) you would do exactly this to katana user 1:51 I understand what they can't stab that much in hema, becaue it's dangerous, but real fight would look completely different, not trying to touch opponent with your sword, but more like stab him. Don't take me wrong, I have no experiences with actual sword fights, but it's really sad for me that so many people says that crossguard is just "christian symbol" or they say it's useless because it's pointed in a wrong direction, these people are just trying to do kendo with longsword, but that's wrong and crossguard has many usages as they show in historical books and pictures. If it was useless, it wouldn't be on those swords I guess.
Il sciur Matt Easton ha già pubblicato un suo video di risposta a quello di Seki sensei che maneggia un simulacro di spada a due mani. Vediamo ora quali sono le considerazioni del buon Federico.
@@FedericoMalagutti Tavanate direi proprio di no. Anzi potresti fare un video "inverso" in cui provi a tirare in sparring con il bokken con qualcuno dei tuoi che mangeggia una due mani in sintetico e vedere cosa ne viene fuori.
But isn't the reason why you parry with the edge because that's where the guard is? If the guard was side-ways, then you'd parry with the side of the blade.
We parry with the edge because it’s stronger, edge is stronger than flat as for a human it is stronger to push forward with the hands rather than sideways. Plus, having a sideways cross guard would limit the motions in an unbelievable way. As every movement close to the head and shoulders would hit you, safe for perfectly vertical ones in front of the body.
In my opinion, the best sharp edged weapon is neither the Katana or the Long Sword but rather the humble kitchen knife. From ancient times to the present, everyone is still using it. So forget about the Samurai or the European knight, they are no match for the Master Chef....lol
i love this so much. Its like the goku vs superman debates, the true answer is they would be best friends and push each other to be better both morally and as fighters. Much like i imagine masters of the long sword and the katana would bond over mutual admiration of their respective disciplines
Not to laugh, but an interesting point: in japan you wouldn't see a warrior resting his sword pointed into the ground, because: - moisture is a big problem, and even sheath is made with tge idea to draw the moister away from the blade - you could make your point dirty, and if you'd fight someone and this person got a dirty/infected wound, you would be considered unhonoreful
I _love_ how this is becoming a whole thing! I can't wait for Seki-sensei to respond to all these videos from so many people. :>
Hehe!
To be honest, I doubt he'll respond to them all. More likely Shogo will show clips of the videos he noticed.
Shogo gives off the energy that he doesn't watch as much as he makes videos. Seki-sensei doesn't seem like an internet guy at all lol.
I really do hope that they watch them though.
@@MasoTrumoi I would be surprised if they answer, it would be extremely cool, but in the UA-cam environment it’s rare to see someone bigger than you creating a dialogue between channels, generally speaking.
@@FedericoMalagutti True, response videos used to be a thing but the algorithm killed it. Now someone can make a response video and not get seen by the source video uploader unless they get tagged directly, linked in the response video description, or mutual viewership points it out.
As far as Shogo and Seki-sensei not being internet guys, I mean, they're busy training. They make content during their free time. Hopefully we get more cross discussions for various blade systems around the world. For sometime now it's just been HEMA and FMA, Kenjutsu entering the fray is like opening the floodgates for other systems to follow the discussion and create a better community for us all. At least, way better than fanboys with gear, takes a few lessons, feel like an expert and never train again just shitposting and thinking their system is the be all and end all of swordsmanship.
@@FedericoMalaguttiyes UA-cam made a mistake getting rid of tags years ago.
Im a Kenjutsu/ Iaijutsu instructor and I have started training under Seki Sensei last spring. I also tried to learn the Kriegs messer and gross messer in n mine (no HEMA schools around me) and I have found mostly similarities and picked up some me new methods I have used successfully in Kenjutsu sparing. I also use the messers more like a Daisho in free practice. I love it when egos can subside and learning from other styles can begin.
The best most underrated HEMA channel on youtube! Keep up the good work Sir!
Thank you very much, the Algorithm doesn't really like me, but I'll keep going, for sure!
@@FedericoMalagutti Well fortunately Seki Sensei's video seems to have helped in that regard, as after having seen a few replies to his original video your channel now seems to be popping up in the recommended column more often. Obviously it's anecdotal since I can't see any analytics, but maybe there'll be an uptick in new subscribers like myself in the coming weeks.
@@GiveMeBackMyUsernameUA-cam I hope so ^_^
@@GiveMeBackMyUsernameUA-cam
Same here. YT never suggested Federico's channel, despite being subscribed to several HEMA channels.
It is very refreshing to see after many years people from both HEMA and Japanese background discussing their weapons, their impressions, in a very polite, educated and "academic" setting. I apprecciate the respect and the insights shared in a humble way, and the push towards learning more on both sides.
This is much more heart warming than the usual, nasty and toxic "fanboying" discussion that have been carried over the years on the (in)famous "katana vs longsword" debate where the sole reason behind it was to undermine one over the other.
You earned a subscriber! I apprecciate that you also studied Japanese martial arts in the past and aim to be a better, well rounded swords man. Keep it up!
Thanks ;-)
Couldn't agree more!
I'm pretty new to the sword arts community but I was getting a lot of toxic vibes from many comment sections.
I'm pleased that Seki sensei is very open minded and curious, and that they approached the long sword from that mindset of pure curiosity.
It primed this wave of discussion and reactions to be open, polite and informative rather than combative or hostile. No one is claiming one is superior to the other, just talking about differences, downsides and benefits. Most practitioners know that in the end, regardless of the weapon or school, it comes down to the individual, and don't waste time squabbling about what's superior to what.
This is how the topic should be approached, and I'm loving seeing all these big HEMA guys reacting so positively to their video!
The whole debate with longswords vs katanas pretty much stems from backlash after weebs mindlessly gushed over the katana and exaggerated it's effectiveness as a sword. We've now reached the other side of the skepticism hill where we acknowledge the katana as an impressive sword for a continent with very impure iron. Even when there were more effective weapons on the battlefield at the time, the katana is an iconic weapon in Asian media similar to how the revolver is an iconic gun in Wild West media.
I think the sword/weapon community is doing what the unarmed community did 30ish years ago = which started with silly arguing, then some academic style analysis.. followed by actual meetups and sparing, then cross style competition and now we have MMA.
I truly look forward to seeing fencers VS kendo VS longsword VS some big Scot with a claymore in a legitimate competition - with all the appropriate safety gear of course!
@@TheCrimsonElite666
Each weapon has its own purpose and style of use
Although both longsword and katana are similar, they are also different
who is better?
bow and arrow
and
ultimately the spear is better than both, as confirmed by historical facts from the battlefield
*
in Europe, swords are specialized as short sword, long sword and sabre
katana would be a compromise between a longsword and a sabre
*
what is an interesting fact that no one ever mentions in such videos is the length of the blade, not all swords are the same, each sword is "tailored" for the owner, so a person who is 150 cm tall does not have the same long blade on a longsword as a person who is 200 cm tall height
then the specialization of the sword, whether it is for a footman or a horseman, because for a horseman it must be longer, and it usually stays on the horse next to the saddle
I think this whole east/west exchange is fantastically interesting and positive. We can all learn something.
using the false edge to cut the hand is also something Seki-sensi does in another video, showing how his school quickly shifts sword position to account for only using a single-edged blade. Fascinating that the same maneuver exists with such fundamentally different weapons, adjusted just a hair to make it work
This used to be an argument............I love that it's gotten to this now where it is a respectful comparison. (beyond that though, it seems to have become a desire to learn from each side) It's beautiful.
Second time watching, commenting for the Algorithm, but also to praise Sensei Sekei for the joy and humility with which he approached and enjoyd his new "toy". That is how a true Master approaches all learning. He definately deserve the love and appreciation the HEMA community has shown.
Thank you for making this reaction video!
I am so glad Seki sensei's video has sparked this wave of discussion in the kenjutsu and HEMA communities!
I am training with Seki sensei through their online course and we have been thrilled with the reactions you and others have given.
I hope this video reaction dialog continues, I find it all very fascinating!
Thanks!
I hope it will continue too, I really enjoy Kenjutsu and, broadly speaking, JMA.
I wish you good practice!
Thanks ! I practice Kendo and naginata, I have friend how practice HEMA and is very very intersting to exchange together. I love the similarity and your video is very cool for more understinding
It’s always cool to fight other people fighting and training in other styles!
It was very interesting to see how Seki-sensei interacted with the longsword, reverse engineering its purpose and the problems it was designed to solve. I think if he spent some more time with it, he would deduce the techniques with the false edge, among others, which would be very similar to those in HEMA.
It was also interesting how he pointed out the different weight distribution due to ridges and used bokken to slap the opponent's longsword sideways - I think he meant that one needs to apply this kind of hit closer to the tip of the blade. Compared to katana, which has ridges stretched all along the blade (it is stated that kenjutsu relies heavily on this kind of parrying), the longsword can be easier to push aside with this particular technique - again, it is longer and thus requires more strength to steer the tip under pressure because of physics. But the same physics allows for rapid changes in cut directions, so it is an understandable trade-off in merits.
before i started with hema, i was doing kenjutsu and once i started in hema, most specifically with fiore, i immediately started to notice the similarities in poste and kamae. many of them are nearly identical. even when you look at translated manuscripts from japan like the ones from yamamoto kansuke, it is clear many of the stances shown are not very different from the ones in fiore manuscripts for example. the differences i think are mostly in the delivery of the strikes and parries. because of the katanas deferential hardening process, the edge was (and is) extremely hard but brittle. because of this, to my understanding, it was preferred to parry with the flat of the blade or the spine of the blade to avoid catastrophic damage to the blade edge (keep in mind that katana are also associated with shinto deities, so damaging one was essentially an offense against the gods, something to avoid at all costs if possible). you can see seki sensei do this even with the longsword when he does a move similar to the zornhau. he smacks the opponents blade with the flat of the blade. even when he attempts to half sword, notice he held his hand over the flat. this is because in kenjutsu you would hold the hand over the spine, which is not sharp. longswords do not have a blunt false edge, so seki sensei was adjusting and applying what he knew to the longsword and attempting to hold the non-sharp part of the blade, the flat
While I do believe you have a point, I think it is worth to add more context to the topic of edge brittleness.
The issue you mention is a feature of some swords of the Edo period belonging to the shintō group (新刀) that were made from the mid 17th century onward. These blades favoured high carbon steel with extensive wide hamon that increased the artistic value of the blade at the cost of its durability. This problem was actually tackled by Japanese smiths during the late 18th and 19th century with a movement known as fukkotō (復古刀) by Suishinshi Masahide and the development of the shinshintō sword tradition (新々刀). His whole take was to restore the swords of the past (kotō, 古刀) due to their better functionality. His tests were extremely harsh and you can read online what was expected to be done (there is an article translated known as extreme aratameshi - few swords managed to achieve quite impressive stuff).
When looking at these kotō era blades, we can apprecciate carbon content of less %, monosteel structure or simple lamination and less hard edges, paired with more stout edge geometry (known as niku, 肉) that prevent significant edge damage. These blades were after all forged into a period in which armor was prevalent in the battlefield.
In that sense, while ideally you want to preserve the edge, you will not risk such catastrophic failure. In fact, the argument of preserving the edge is sound up until you consider that once you are swinging the blade against your opponent, you will meet his edge or his flat and the blade could still chip if it would be very hard.
Another point is that longsword forged in the European tradition are not immune to dramatic failure if the edge is struck. Being of monosteel structure in some cases, if there is a crack on the edge it will propagate within the whole blade and cause breaking. This is less common with Japanese sword as there are multiple phases of the steel that react differently to the crack, stopping its propagation.
The guys at the Arms & Armor channel did some test on sharp edge to edge contact and the sword got damaged, with further swinging leading to snapping. Mind you we are talking 3-4 hits edge to edge and less than 10 general hits to targets and the blade failed. This was a modern made blade, much more consistent than their medieval counterpart.
To conclude, there are edge to edge actions within some kenjutsu schools although flat parries are favoured (this has to do also with the shinogi, the thickness of the blade and its balance, not only preserving the edge). And at the same time, you do have actions with the flat in longsword tradition and the use of side rings as well in the guard.
Cheers!
@@lucanic4328 that was a good history lesson. Thank you 😄 of course european swords weren't immune to catastrophic failure, probably as much or even more so depending on the maker and steel quality. Even with today's steel i have seen several blades break in sparring sessions. About 2 longsword broken at the middle point and about 4 rapiers breaking at the middle, just over the tang, at the pommel and one had the cup in the crossguard broken, but blade was fine. I even saw two blades snap within the same class 😅 keep in mind these are heavily abused
@@badrequest5596 you are welcome - I think it is always good to share info on the world of Japanese swords as it is a topic that is both heavily "mystified" or dismissed entirely.
As a note I think many modern manufacturers produce full hardened tangs which are not found on historical European swords, as they were often made of softer steel and not hardened. This is quite substantial as you can have blade failure at the tang resulting in the whole blade flying away - quite dangerous! I'd recommend to always check if the tang is hardened if possible and anneal it (heating it to temperature and let it cool by air). This will increase the durability of the sword! But I think modern manufacturers are also slowly changing their practice
I wonder whether that difference in tradition isnt due more to economics, esp in early modern times, when those traditions were formalized in Japan.
Swords were soo much more expensive in Japan, as getting good iron and then steel (as well as plenty of charcoal) always was easier and cheaper in central Europe, with the 2 'Ore Mountains' (Erzberg) in Austria and Salzburg providing high quantities of high quality ore (with very little sulfur but quite a bit of manganese in some locations) since Roman times (ferum noricum).
After 1550, that difference went through the roof as water powered furnaces in Austria could produce ever larger pieces of iron blooms in one go (up from 50-100kg in 1500 to >2t by the 1620s, though average size was more around 800kg, as that was easier to handle), and the downstream industry upsized in tandem with that development.
Before Ferdinand 1 embargoed exports of steel products to the Ottomans, Austria alone exported > 2 million knifes per year in that direction, and makers of simple swords / kriegsmesser were using the same water powered processes to upscale production.
Sure there were also swords that were works of art in Europe after 1550. But in the general thinking swords became rather mundane.
@@positroll7870check about +Ulfber+T Swords , they're a masterpiece, their Iron was comparable with out modern Iron
I loved the video as well! Shogo and Sensei Seki make such good kenjutsu content. Thanks for making such a quality reply.
Thanks!!
One thing that always fascinated me about Katanas was the iaijutsu techniques, this idea of quickly drawing your blade so you can strike as fast as possible. I haven't seen many of these techniques with European swords, but with the double edge blades and cross handle, they're better off in terms of defending, clashing and counter attacking. Either way, I really enjoyed watching all these videos.
I think most people as about that because of the different styles. Asian martial arts tend to use more deflection in order to protect the blade cutting edge. While in HEMA it seems you preferer to block the blade of the adversary and move from that while holding the other blade with your sword.
Generally speaking is true, we have a lot of deflections too though, but there's not too much care for the edge, the concept of binding (edge on edge contact) is quite important in HEMA, especially among Germans, italians shares slightly more similarities with Japanese styles.
My speculation is since the longsword tapers a lot more at the tip, blocking with the flat causes the sword to wobble more as it’s not as stable. The katana, having a thicker blade, is more rigid which encourages deflections with the flat. On the flip side, the katana has a really hard edge which is nice for cutting but also makes it more brittle while the longsword having a tougher edge (and is structurally more rigid when hitting that way) encourages more edge deflection.
@@gameragodzilla well, you anyway parry with the strong part of the blade, being the blade wobbly or not at the tip in all honesty doesn’t change a lot ^^
@@FedericoMalagutti Fair, though I would figure if you were some distance away, you’d have to parry with the upper end of the blade anyways, where the wobbliness would be the most prominent with a flat deflection. The katana being thicker and more rigid is the only thing I can think of for the difference between the two styles.
@@gameragodzilla we in Europe had plenty of iron an coal, while swords were pricy if compared to other simpler tools, such as axes, they were anyway far, far more accessible and easy to substitute when broken or damaged compared to the same for Katanas in Japan, were resources were few and, on average, of lower quality, compared to Europe. Plus humidity was harsh on steel.
This truly helped developing sn utmost obsessive care for weapons, especially the most complex to make, such as the sword. Most probably that’s why most Japanese sword styles have such an obsessive care for their edge.
@6:22 you can add schlaudern cut as a technique using the extended reach of the one hand on the pommel
Iado (sword drawing into attack/defense) is supposedly an evolution of the Edo period, in which samurai were rarely battlefield fighters but duelists and, on occasion, subject to surprise assassination attempts (particularly if the political station was higher). The idea was to be prepared to respond to attacks and enter combat at any moment, even while sitting and eating a meal. (More importantly, I think it gave the samurai something additional to think about and train towards - because that's essentially all there was for them to do.)
I really hope this becomes a cross over class, where both groups get together in person and discuss, if I had the money, I would pay for it to happen!
6:17 Oh YEAH, BABY! That's the WAY! STROKE IT, just like that!
I have always wondered about draw techniques for long swords since as a stinkin’ Texan, my primary context for self defense sidearms are handguns, and an important technique for handguns is draw speed. It’s important both for practical reasons since I’m likely not going to have my gun drawn already when I need it, and also mythologized with the old West cowboy that can outdraw everyone and become “the fastest gun in the West”. I always figured if swords are personal self defense weapons the same way handguns are, and backup sidearms on the battlefield, that speed drawing would be important the same way quick drawing handguns are important skills in modern combat. The Japanese very much developed that with the katana so I wonder why it wasn’t that commonplace elsewhere.
Best explanation I could find was most manuals were written for more “formal” duels where opponents would pre-draw their swords, while Japanese samurai were forbidden to draw their swords unless attacked first. Which is more in line with laws regarding handguns today where drawing a gun without reason is called brandishing and very illegal.
Great video! I need to get back I to the chinese two handed dao there are some other interesting differences and similarities there as well.
And some two-handed jian as well, please. Roaring Dragon, maybe? 😅
Excellent presentation! I am amazed at the similarities between Japanese and European swordsmanship. Many of the stances are very similar as are things like pressure on the blade, beats, etc. The relaxed stance with the grip at the chest is hasso no kamae in Japanese. I recall the cut with the false edge under the wrist being common in sabre fencing. Thanks for sharing that.
When I was a beginner, I once hit myself in the head with my own crossguard and fell into a bush....
It’s not that uncommon! Eheheh ;-)
Hey, for the crossguard part I think we can just mention that we do have cross guards with 1/2/3/4… rings attached on🤣
Thanks Master for this video...!!!
Damn this is good bro. You definitely know your stuff. Im glad I found you somehow
several years ago i visited cortona, a city in italy, and at the second floor of the museo dell'accademia et-rusca there was a perfectly finished rapier 1,5 m long, forged in layers, as damascus steel, katanas and jians are forged, and that weapon had a concave equlateral triangular shape in cross section, with three sharp cutting edges. the sword is probably stil exhibited there, one floor over the gino severini exhibition... just saying
great video Federico, as usual!
Thanks!
Nice response video.
Thanks!
what impresses me the most is how seki sensei has earned the respect of so many people without having to brag or anything like it, we all admire him not only as a sworsdman but as a man!
I rarely respect the one who brags, hehe
goddamn I love that Sigi King.
Great Exchange. Happens when everybody leaves its Ego out
Pro! Well said and presented!
Another simple reason the cross guard is aligned with the blade edge, is for carrying while sheathed. Imagine how much it would get caught on things while traveling.
Side-rings are really obtrusive.
@@NevisYsbrydthat would actually explain why rings and the nagel are over the knuckle more than over the thumb and fingers.
I always wonderes, cause I would wamt it on the other side. The amount of incidental thumb hits I get is annoying as fuck.
the cross guard has another purpose
since the knights had armored gloves, you grab the sword by the blade and then use the cross guard as a hook to knock down the opponent
the technique is dangerous and demanding, but if you can surprise your opponent and throw him on his back, you practically won the duel
Dopo 20 anni di arti marziali con una spada in mano ho sviluppato molte, certo meno corrette e approssimative, "filosofie" di approcci nei vari momenti, sarà perchè la cinetica fisiologica umana è quella! ci sono manuali basso medievali di scherma italiana? un mondo mi si apre :) complimenti
There are a few European sources that deal with quickdrawing swords, although most of them are from the 17th century onwards, with a scarce few prior to that; however, battojutsu is also actually mostly a 17th century and onwards practice. European practice appears to have never emphasized it to remotely the same extent as Japanese battojutsu, though.
Notably, a lot of longswords are far less optimal for quickdrawing than katanas. blade curvature appears to have a negligible significance; rather, it is largely a factor of the blade length, handle length, and the flexibility and positioning of the suspension method. Katana are about the longest blade length possible before the blade length begins to seriously obstruct and slow the draw and the suspension system is about as optimized for quickdrawing as possible. You can do most of this with a European hand-and-a-half sword, though, which has similar dimensions and comparable handling, although you would want to pick a suitable suspension system.
Where did you find your sources for Japanese swordsmanship because I can't find any to learn from as an English speaker?
JSA prefer oral transmission rather than written on manuscripts.
It's not super-easy to find sources. Also they are most of the times had been wrote by people following the Zen way of Buddhism, so the text are, in general, more useful to let you understand if you already know something, rather than actually teaching you something (most of the times).
Anyway, you can easily find on the web this three books:
Book of Five Rings - Miyamoto Musashi
The Sword that gives life - Yagyu Munenori
The Twelve rules of the sword - Ito Ittosai
But I consider them reads more useful to the experienced swordsman, so, based to your experience, they could be very useful or not useful at all.
@@FedericoMalagutti ah ok awesome thank you so much! I already study Longsword and sabre so I already have a little knowledge so I'll give these books ago I'm sure I'll be able to get something from it haha!
@@jaketheasianguy3307 yeah I've noticed that but I can't find a club that's local that teaches it unfortunately
@@wonkyketchup997 good!
I am not sure if this is accurate or not, was told this 20 years ago, but is there a certain sword length based on the individual, kind of like a bow’s draw length is based on an individuals arm measurement? If so, I would enjoy seeing a video about this. 😊
I mean, it's a matter of preference and tradition in the end.
Katanas basically were subject to size limitation laws after a certain period, so swords and styles from that point on would generally involve similarly sized swords, whereas earlier samples that were more based on Chinese curved war swords usually had wildly varying blade lengths, curvature, hilt length.
The few people who could afford a custom-made sword would probably give prefered mesurements and thus the sword would be tailored to their height, but for most people the sword they'd buy would be from a variety of already forged swords made with the mindset "a sword is about this long", as they weren't that focussed on exact and consistent mesurements. So if you were tall, either have the bladesmith forge you a bigger sword but that will cost you more, or hope for one of the swords aviable for purchase to be longer than the others.
i think that the lack of drawing technique for hema comes from the fact that a longsword is battlefield/sparring weapong, so generally you combat while having it already out, plus is quite unwieldy to carry it around for self defense, due to his relatively large size.
The katana, on the other hand, is basically made for self defense, so its shorter (generally speaking), plus there are other factor. like how the scabbard is carried, attached etc. so you would carry it everywhere, hence the large number of katana drawing techniques
Mmmmmhhh, I don’t know, the Longsword in war is far from being a main weapon, it’s a side weapon which you rely on only when you lose the main one.
I think drawing techniques are simply not there because of how social violence was carried out in general, the filters Japanese and, say, Italian nobility had while talking about violence in peace times were extremely different.
@@FedericoMalagutti true.
But when i said battlefield i meant that it was more likely to carry it around while going to war, than for regular strolls around the city.
European swords were not much specialized for civil or military purpose until the 16th century; a sword was a sword. And then, civil swords generally meant rapiers (or later, smallswords). Longswords were already largely gone from both civilian and military use by the time that either Europe or Japan began emphasizing quickdrawing much.
While I agree that the quickdrawing technique was less of a military practice (most of the Japanese development of it was during a period of relatively little open warfare and instead law enforcement and assassination), that does not really explain the comparative dearth of it in Europe. Katanas are optimal for defending from sudden close attacks with a held weapon-attacked in confined spaces, ambushes or assassinations. Besides the difference in political stability in Europe at the time, other weapons were popular for assassinations-crossbows, or famously, wheellock pistols. We also do have some material covering sword quickdraw techniques from this time-if far less of it and a much more rudimentary approach.
@@FedericoMalagutti I think @lucaf5255 makes a good point, since most Ryua were developed in the 400 years of peace following the togukawa unification of japan, something no european nation ever experienced. I could see one technique, were Seki Sensei was cutting to the inside of the kote, which is actually meant to fight an armored opponent but I would assume that most of the drawing techniques are aiming specificly to civil or courdial setting. I don´t think fechtbücher/manuals are a representation of all fencing techniques of that period, since they often refer to judicial combat, but I would guess that european techniques couldn´t be as refined because they had to be aplicable in many situations including warfare.
I would argue that the focus on draw-cuts is closer related to pistol quick draw than historical sword techniques, where I imagine there would have been some degree of honor associated with striking a man down before he can even draw his sword to face you outside of a battlefield. Samurai movies transitioned into Western movies transitioned into action movies like John Wick.
It's almost as if they are both fighting with sharpened iron bars.
So swords? LoL
@@FedericoMalagutti Yes at the end of the day people seem to forget that they really aren't all that different. A lot of the techniques are similar.
im loveing this so much :)
I offer this. Only the very experienced will have a chance to gain from it. There are really no styles. There is since ancient times one fist. It has qualities. Nothing more or less than what is the ability. It is universal.
That's exactly what I was trying to say under many videos "katana vs longsword" and they were insulting me, but these people have no idea what's purpose of big crossguard, they just use long sword like a katana, but it's not katan! So crossguard doesn't help them much. I was saying exactly as you, that in real fight (not hema play) you would do exactly this to katana user 1:51 I understand what they can't stab that much in hema, becaue it's dangerous, but real fight would look completely different, not trying to touch opponent with your sword, but more like stab him.
Don't take me wrong, I have no experiences with actual sword fights, but it's really sad for me that so many people says that crossguard is just "christian symbol" or they say it's useless because it's pointed in a wrong direction, these people are just trying to do kendo with longsword, but that's wrong and crossguard has many usages as they show in historical books and pictures. If it was useless, it wouldn't be on those swords I guess.
Very good
Thanks!
I do not regret anything😂
Il sciur Matt Easton ha già pubblicato un suo video di risposta a quello di Seki sensei che maneggia un simulacro di spada a due mani.
Vediamo ora quali sono le considerazioni del buon Federico.
Scopriremo se ho detto tavanate o no!
@@FedericoMalagutti Tavanate direi proprio di no. Anzi potresti fare un video "inverso" in cui provi a tirare in sparring con il bokken con qualcuno dei tuoi che mangeggia una due mani in sintetico e vedere cosa ne viene fuori.
@@scassoniostrarompi1691 bella idea ;-)
What is this shingo?
👍👍👍
❤❤❤👍👍👍
But isn't the reason why you parry with the edge because that's where the guard is? If the guard was side-ways, then you'd parry with the side of the blade.
We parry with the edge because it’s stronger, edge is stronger than flat as for a human it is stronger to push forward with the hands rather than sideways.
Plus, having a sideways cross guard would limit the motions in an unbelievable way. As every movement close to the head and shoulders would hit you, safe for perfectly vertical ones in front of the body.
In my opinion, the best sharp edged weapon is neither the Katana or the Long Sword but rather the humble kitchen knife. From ancient times to the present, everyone is still using it. So forget about the Samurai or the European knight, they are no match for the Master Chef....lol
But Europeans where destroyed by Mongol with a sword that has no fame or recognition till date 😂
Maybe European not ready Mongolians attack or strategy, Ottoman can answer maybe
i love this so much. Its like the goku vs superman debates, the true answer is they would be best friends and push each other to be better both morally and as fighters. Much like i imagine masters of the long sword and the katana would bond over mutual admiration of their respective disciplines
Not to laugh, but an interesting point: in japan you wouldn't see a warrior resting his sword pointed into the ground, because:
- moisture is a big problem, and even sheath is made with tge idea to draw the moister away from the blade
- you could make your point dirty, and if you'd fight someone and this person got a dirty/infected wound, you would be considered unhonoreful