Longsword in the hands of Samurai Master
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- I wanted to respond to Seki Sensei's intriguing video of him trying out a longsword for the first time. As a person myself, who started his sword journey in traditional Japanese martial arts and then moving to HEMA, his experience resonated deeply with me. In a sea of "VS" videos, it was awesome to see one like this.
LINKS
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Shogo's Channel ➡️ @LetsaskShogo
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TIMELINE
0:00 - Intro
0:20 - We Built a sword fighting school!
0:59 - Seki Sensei and Shogo
1:53 - My Journey going from Katana to Longsword
2:09 - The Handguard
5:13 - Longsword vs Katana Quickdraw Comparison
7:42 - Longsword Parrying
8:45 - Length Differences
10:00 - Stance Similarities
11:30 - Half-Swording
12:23 - Katana Parrying
14:59 - Similar Parries with Longsword and Katana
16:55 - Seki Sensei's Casting Technique
18:35 - Conclusion
#longsword #katana #martialarts - Спорт
"length does matter... in a fight" 😂
Y'know this is probably one of the best vids I have ever been recomended by youtube.
Also good job on your school! I wish you only the best of luck going forward.
Wow, thanks! That means a lot.
I believe Fiore, and others, recommend carrying ones sword in the left hand if in a city. The logic is that to defend one would use the scabbard to bind an opponents weapon while drawing or binding then drawing the sword.
It's still slower than a Japanese draw but if someone's weapon is bound up with the scab and one has a bit longer to draw their weapon
Another thing with the katana, as I understand it, is that they didn't fight from the bind as much as longsword. Katana deflects & redirects more that bind & wind. As such a katana doesn't need as big a guard.
I’m sure European knights also looked for their opponents weak spots under their armour, utlitized disarm techniques or throws and then ended their assailants life’s
As skallagrim explained there are many similarities between both ancient warriors.
@@hmuphilly9129 yes knights did so & their are many similarities between European & Japanese swordplay.
But my point is that the Japanese don't fight from the bind like European systems often teach.
I bet they had to if the warring clan was in the position.
Perhaps not modern ryuha@@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145
A good thing to note is that the katana is more popular after the medieval period, as far as I know. _During_ the medieval period, a Tachi was more common, I think.
Great video! Thank am currently an online student with Seki Sensei and an instructor in a different Ryuha in Kenjutsu/ Iaijutsu/ jujitsu. There are no hema schools old around me so I have used online sources to study Messers as much as I can. Anyhow, I love it when people can put ego aside and learn from other styles. I feel like it brings more to your personal training. Keep up the great work! And nice Akado sword. 😉
How much is it to start with seki senseis online school?
Fiore actually has a "drawing from the scabbard" technique and a whole stance that imitates it.
The issue with quick draw in the longsword is you should do it with the reverse edge, the sottani falso in Italian iirc. It's still not as fast as a katana, but the use of the false edge should be done more commonly because...you know, it's there, unlike on a katana.
Ringeck also has a depiction of a draw-attack against a mace wielder.
That's so cool. I'm going to be looking for this now.
Regarding the guard, bigger and thicker ones were available, tsuba of 10+cm one more common in the past this can also be seen in artwork. Also came in different designs what you did with the cross guard here could probably be done with those tsuba, on that topic crossguards were also used in Japan on some weapons.
This is a misconception regarding blade length, before the edo period katana were longer and were in the "longsword" category, many swords bear the markings of suriage or ōsuriage meaning they were shortened, new laws cut down and regulated blade length.tachi and nodachi also went through this. Shorter length swords were defined as katateuchi, intended for one-handed use.
Kenjutsu demonstrations I have seen appear to be applied edge-to-edge parry as the most common method.
Katana actually have some spring, this is in thanks to utsuri(used to be common in the past more on this later), but also historical European swords were only kind of springy, just give a look that Adam Sarae's video a sword is shown flexing but not to the extent of a modern one where you can flex it to a 160 degrees doing that with a historical blade would break it. It also would have been less uniform throughout the blade.
"String steel" is more modern thing, at best it was spring temper, but also longswords could be made with differentially Hardened and a laminated construction. In the same regard a katana could be made with a mono-steel construction.
Historical katana could also take more abuse than what would be generally considered, more specifically kotō era swords, the problem comes with the later Shinto era swords. Where swordsmiths were really focusing on an oversized harmon not going through tampering called yaki modoshi or overly complex lamination.
Here's some videos showing abusive testing and some other sources that debunk a lot of misconceptions regarding Japanese swords.
ua-cam.com/users/shortsKwpq3lvXBXQ?si=oygWsAQ1t0XKf7ah
ua-cam.com/video/UticQnm78nQ/v-deo.htmlsi=b2RjMB4kMuU4fLJX
Neutron diffraction study on full-shape Japanese sword"
The Investigation of Establishing Time of Zuku-Oshi and Kera-Oshi with Data of Iron Image of Buddha Making Age and Old Document "Kokon-Kajibiko"
Ancient and historic steel in Japan, India and Europe, a non-invasive comparative study using thermal neutron diffraction, F.Grazzi et al, 2011.
The Sword and the Crucible: A History of the Metallurgy of European Swords Up to the 16th Century, A. Williams, 2012
Some Aspects of the Metallurgy and Production of European Armor OCTOBER 18, 2016
Archaeometallurgical Investigation on Historical Sword-Making Techniques in Northern Italy Between the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries, G.Tonelli et al, 2022
November 04, 2019 Japanese Swords "Mythbusting" - Part 1
La question du minerai de fer pour la période médiévale (IXe - XVIe siècle)
Home-made steel: A week at Manabe Sumihira's zuku-oshi tatara
Mineralogical Study of Iron Sand with Different Metallurgical Characteristic to Smelting with Use of Japanese Classic Iron-making Furnace “Tatara”
Micromorphology, chemistry, and mineralogy of bog iron ores from Poland
SOME THOUGHTS ON UTSURI
Posted on 2013/08/22
January 27, 2019
Iron and Steel Technology in Japanese Arms & Armors - Part 3: Bladesmithing
Thank you for the insight! And I love that you have all the sources listed. I'll definitely be going through these and taking a look.
@@ludusferocia8696you're welcome glad I could give you some info, one or two of them are actually about European swords tho, showing they're not that different compared to Japanese ones in regards to construction.
Great video!! Thanks for sharing your insights!!
this is a really good video. I like that you know both systems and explain the differences very well. You are a good teacher. (easy to understand)
Thank you that means a lot
thank you for this breakdown!
I used to do for fun kendo matches with some of the jsdf back when i was in japan, honestly your insight is so interesting i am much more interested in learning about hema and kenjutsu and battojutso after watching this video amazing job gents❤
Good video!
I think one of the major point considering the handguard on Japanese (and east asian) swords is that discguards are favoured due to the actions with the flat of the blade that make use of the shinogi ridge to deflect blows. In that sense, a crossguard with rings might be beneficial but otherwise is not really great to have a plain cross guard using Japanese techniques, not to mention the ease of carry.
However, I think a lot of the discussion based on the tsuba in sparring are biased: most HEMA gauntlet extend past the tsuba in a very bulky and unnatural way, resulting in a lot of hits whereas there should be no mass in real life. This is something to take into account and I think it is hardly ever noticed since we assume the medium is representative. Larger tsuba for sparring would be needed if we want an accurate proxy
nice vid!
Another thing I've noticed is because the way the katana is wedged shape with no distal taper means it can hit anywhere on the blade where the longsword has a sweet spot for cuts so if you're hitting with the tip kendo style you have the same cutting reach as the longsword it's just that the longsword has a longer reach in the cut and the versitility of 2 edges
You can definitely feel some of this with the trainers we use. Not 1 to 1 to a real katana as the training ones have a lot of flex to them and shinken do not. But more so than a hema feder
Not bad!
the game i played that featured both swords, the longsword was used like a hammer against armored knights
I think it's For Honor, yes?
4:43 it takes two moves not necesarilly because is longer but because is straight. Any curved sword can do this in one move if either has a short enough bladeor curved enough blade.
Would wearing mail gauntlets potentially have influenced the length of the quillons?
I believe it could have yes
Honestly the way katana works is really perfect if it was with fencing too. This is just my opinion not an expert.
That's why fencing experts often share like 90% of Seki's idea.
Like both of them is about technical more than just cutting. If anything if you try to cut people with a rapiers... Yep you are a nub...
Its the same with Katana. He even said in "Why full cut is bad" video too. Because Katana is about optimal small cut and leave. A full cut will get it stuck 100%.
Well the misconceptions is all thx to anime... Yeah like they don't know it's purely fiction...
Absolutely. We also want to make a video on the fully committed cut vs the snap cut. We also feel the snap cut would be very lethal in a duel and allows you to recover much quicker than a fully committed cleave. Even though this is what is typically shown in kenjutsu and iaido kata.
Make no mistake: the katana is optimised for slicing and cutting over stabbing and thrusting. It can do those things, but it isn't optimised to. Iaijutsu and kenjutsu practice big cuts to teach fundamentals of cutting and hone reflexes of "cutting hands". The reason big cuts are also used is to disable on the draw, and to quickly "recycle the blade" after being parried. Once swords are crossed though it is less advantageous to use a cleaving stroke when a slice will do.
I personally call the "push-pop" the "Stinger"
I ask this question to a lot of people and I ask you too: why compare a katana (short single edge curved blade) to a longsword (long double edged straight blade) instead of a type of cutlass or sabre which would have a similar blade profile thus a similar use?
agreed i’d love to see a tachi vs scimitar because they were both horse back weapons
@@TONEDEAFSOUND scimitar is a wide term. Short sabres vs tachi, longer vs katana
@@Ciprian-IonutPanait it would be the other way around but yes
@@TONEDEAFSOUND I though the tachi is shorter, my mistake. Anyway it would be a good comparation.
@@Ciprian-IonutPanait your totally good i think i also got the size of the scimitar wrong. but i think they’d be a cool side by side that rarely gets talked about but had similar usage
With the way the katana is designed, theres techniques and body movements to help draw the blade out even faster, which can end the fight almost instantly before your opponet drew the blade.
But also that the samurai would avoid as much as possible to get in binding with the katana.
Seki Sensei has done show plenty of it and proved how fast a person fan draw an katana and slash. And he even showed his practical an reserve grip is aswell.
He's such a good practitioner and teacher. I want to take his online lessons soon.
They’re swords. I’m not out here saying there isn’t substantial differences, but I am saying the differences can be negligible in many situations that matter. If you’re talking about the evolution of the way they fought and the “styles” they used, I would say that’s the difference that matters a lot more. A master of their weapon is a master with that weapon. The differences in that case don’t matter that much.
6:32 katana is also meant to be two hands. Normal katana would be much heavier due to bad steel
Good video - "quillion" there's another I in it
Thank you! I've seen it spelled both ways but historical writeups and documents seem to all spell it without the extra I. I default to that but I think enough people use it with the I that it means the same thing at this point.
@@ludusferocia8696The contention is because it's a French word, traditionally pronounced like "QWEE-on". Some people spell without the extra i in English because that second i is basically silent like the double L, but the most traditional spelling is quillion.
Thing is, as a loan word it has even less of a demand to be pronounced one singular way. So in my opinion you can ignore this guy's "correction" as I could counter "well you shouldn't pronounce the Ls at all then if you're going to pretend there's a 'correct' pronunciation."
i think it might be more... "apples to apples"? to compare katanas to bastard swords than comparing them to longswords.
Both in length and in the number of hands to wield it.
Or maybe the arming sword if you want to compare everyday-carry weapons.
cool video, but why ate you looking over my right shoulder the whole time.
I think a point that doesn't get enough credit is that the Longsword and Uchigatana are both evolutions of previous sword designs: Arming Swords and Tachi, respectively.
Arguably, the pronounced quillons of Medieval-style cross-guards might have initially developed as an incidental feature of Viking-age swords that were used alongside a shield; since such swords were rarely used to parry, they mostly made contact along their edges while throwing an attack. As shields became less central to defense (become narrower and small), European swordsmen continued to favor edge-centric plays that encouraged the use of the quillons.
By contrast, the Samurai chiefly served as mounted archers, needing both hands free to use their Daikyu during most engagements. Without a shield, Samurai had to use their tachi to discourage an attacker, leading to a greater emphasis on blade-forward defenses. The disk-shaped tsuba (likely worn with kote/gauntlets), provided protection against sniping attacks to the hand (like a rondel dagger). Another thing to consider is that, because katana are usually curved and single-edged, a combatant usually wanted to keep that edge directed toward an adversary; displacing an enemy's weapon with the spine of your sword does just that, allowing a fighter to follow up with their attack without having to turn the blade. You actually see a similar development with the Holy Roman Messer, which features a nagel that extended protection over the back of the wielder's hand for similar reasons.
Very good explanation. That makes sense
This is a very good point. A lot of people, at least in my experience, forget that Samurai practiced bowmanship on horseback more than anything in the beginning. Or rather in their past before the sword became the main focal point of what a Samurai is. Comparing these swords is interesting, but at the same time they were used in different time periods in different situations and different armor. This is all well and good, but a lot of people want one or the other to be better when the truth is they were both perfect tools for their era and circumstances.
U should teach Shadiversity in your school. I mean seriously that guy needs to take lessons.
Oh did he not train?
They have an episode called..."something Pendantry", i can't remember. After watching that i was under the impression that he did not have a formal education on swords. Maybe he's self taught and read a lot of books and surely watches a lot of anime.
Oh and you're holding the katana wrong.
(1) loosen up your grip a little .
Your right hand closest to the Tsuba (gard) should more be you thumb and your palm doing most of the holding along with the ring finger your other 3 finger should be loos.
(2) left hand you pinky finger should be at the bottom.
Keep in mind the bottom of the sword is for the control.
Your right hand is for the power.
You control the katana with your left hand.
I've learned about 4 ways to hold a katana from two different Ryuha so I wouldn't say how I'm holding it is wrong, just different. The mechanics you mention are all true and are all being done in the video. But there are plenty of ways to hold a katana depending on draw, function, and environment. A good example is the close grip you would use in Indoor or enclosed fighting. It differs greatly from a grip you use in open space.
I curious about something. Japanese people tend to be a few inches shorter then europeans. I think about three inches or so on average. Is it possible that katanas are proportionally similar in size to long swords when comparing the correct size for the user. We all buy swords off the shelf, but, historically except munitions grade, a lot of them where custom made for the owner. Many of the euporean sword masters like Silver advocated using swords that are the correct length for the user.I forget how he measured it but he did have an equation for determining the correct length. When I was in the SCA I could comfortably use a sword that is longer then my shorter friends.
I don't know the difference in height if there was any historically. Granted I don't know much about Japanese swords and swordmanship. I assume we are complaining a style developed in the 1800 to one from the 1400s. I wonder what the Japanese where doing in the 1400s and now long their swords where.
In modern iaido you use a sword sized for you. Traditionally you might have inherited your sword and would just have to adapt.
Katana are short because because they were most often used as a symbol of rank rather than as a weapon. Also blade length was regulated under the Tokagawa shogunate.
The answer to every question along the lines of "why did the samurai do this impractical thing?" will inevitably be Ieyasu.
@@Ianmar1 thanks for the answer. That is interesting, I hadn't thought of the status symbol angle. That makes sense. It is also interesting that you mention the regulated length. I believe there was a time in england where rapiers length was regulated. that was because they where becoming absurdly long.
Toyama Ryu?
I never learned that style but they were the first school I've ever seen use steel katana. They were actually what started my obsession with steel sparring katana
9:21 doing that with an ancient katana might result in it bending... so not really an option
Actually the tsuba is more for just incase.
In Japanese sword fighting regardless of the Martial art we rarely even block with the katana.
If we do it's to more knock the blade out of the way. And or use the spine of the blade to also block.
We never use the edge of the blade to block.
There is more dodging involved.
A katana is used for speed. Most of the time someone will die at the draw of the sword.
Using a katana isn't like how people use long swords.
Example duels: with long swords you dray your swords and fight.
Katana you stand with in striking distance and see who dies first. Yhe one how is slowest dies.
Keep in mind there is katana without the tsuba. Cane sword
I have a katana like that.
And no you cannot use a katana like a long sword it's not made for that.
Using a katana is c challenge to see who is faster and can out move and out smart someone.
The tsuba is almost never used to block.
And you are doing the quick draw wrong.
If it's in your Hakama you pull the saya (scabbard) out a litte more, turn it side ways, as you draw your blade with your other hand push the saya back as you twist your hips. And you can draw it faster.
Secondly if you have your katana in your Hakama the blade side should be facing up not down.
If you are holding the katana you should draw the blade from the side or with the blade facing up.
That way you draw and can automatically slash down if your blade is facing up.
Or slash across.
If you watch any Japanese sword fighting you will notice they rarely block with the blade if the do it's more to deflect the blade then really to block it.
In a fight😂
Or you know, in life
A lot of missconception on the longsword (especially about the edge deflecting), but this movie already debunked it
ua-cam.com/video/_0x5ur8znjI/v-deo.html
I am so glad we are putting all this "Best sword" nonsense of the centuries finally behind us.
What really need to be discussed is who had the funnier names for things.