These blocks are a very good example of how almost anything can be improved by thoughtful analysis and design. Thanks to you both. I almost wish the tool makers in China have watched these videos.
@@oxtoolco I was thinking about this some more. Would you consider showing us the procedure in a meatloaf episode? How did you square them up then grind the same amount off either side to ensure they came to size and that the hole pattern remained centered? I can grind something square, and I can match the pieces that are on the grinder. I sure would love to know how to approach something like that. I know you can't show the work because you already did it, but maybe a walk through of what you did? Cheers! Pete.
They are looking great Tom! Thanks for making this video and thanks for the shout out for my channel. Looking forward to the grind an lap video :) ATB, Robin
I think that there maybe a problem with filing a Patent now that the item has been shown in "the public domain" here on You Tube with @ 13 K people having seen them. Disclaimer, I am no lawyer or Patent Attorney, I am just going on some information I picked up sometime previously that I somehow happened to recall here and now. It would be up to ROBRENZ to determine if is possible and if he wants and can afford to proceed.
I'm having trouble describing my reaction to the awesomeness I just watched! Amazing concept and amazing to see you make it look so easy... Thanks so much for posting!
Tom I am glad your schedule and responsibilities have slacked up and blessing all us guys and gals who really appreciate,enjoy,and apply things we learn from you. Take good care of yourself I am told to do the same thing so I will pass it on.😀
This would be a cool kind of video for every once in a while. Although I do love to hear you explaining the details, you've been helping me become a better machinist.
Alignment of the blocks to each other is easy by putting the two on a mag chuck against the reference rail, turn the chuck on and then tighten the screws, Same can be done with a magnetic V block.
Robrenz? Tell you this, you’d better have your mind clear when you check out his channel. No sleeping! He delivers some high-level knowledge and experience. I’d probably find it even more useful if I was a machinist, but someday...who knows? Robrenz and the other unbelievably informative machinists out there sharing their knowledge for free make it possible for a wannabe machinist to walk into a shop with considerable basic info already learned-what employer wouldn’t like to see that in a new hire? I’m kidding about me starting that career (cause I’m 71) but I pass this stuff along to younger folks constantly. Thanks for another great video-always fascinating.
Its well suited for this kind of project, where the magic is in the application and the operations are basic enough to need little-to-no explanation. At least the ones Tom didn't reserve for Robin ;-)
Nice looking blocks there Tom! Robin is an awesome guy, I have really been enjoying the podcast he was on. Good to see some new Ox Tool machining footage.
Super cool Robyn is an amazing watch. Thanks for the show of the blocks Tom. While looking at the blocks It struck me how to fix another problem I'd been thinking about with out much forward movement for ever and there is the solution fully formed. Tks for the channel Will
Nice. He does come up with some really Kool ideas! Like the consolidation of video content to get the basics across in what was obviously a fair amount of work. Thanks for the video.
Great video as always with an extremely clever and even elegant design with the bolt screw threads relieved like that so the blocks can be screwed together in any orientation. I wonder what other fantastic ideas Robin has tucked away in his magic shop that we haven't seen yet. The concept puts every other 123 block including Suburbans and Moore's no matter how well made into ancient technology territory imo. This is exactly how the first 123 blocks should have been designed.
I like this idea... very handy. I think this should be a project for every new machinist to make a set. Good basic skills used, needs to be accurate, very functional. Now I'll have to make a set... good weekend project for a bobby guy like me.
in machine building, we have two types of panels a cover and removable guarding, the bolts must stay in the latter once removed. so i have to make hundreds of these bolts, your method is correct but you can get away with using a single tapped hole to a depth with a grub screw as a stop, you wont need to tighten down as the parting tool will make it tighten against the stop. this way its repeatable and quick :)
Oh bullshit. In "machine building" there are all types of shields/guards and systems/fasteners for attaching them and there is no requirement that the fastener stay with the shield/guard. Those "bolts" (BOLTS screw in to NUTS while SCREWS screw into THREADED HOLES in PARTS) are nothing but Allen-head cap screws no different than those used in millions of different machines/applications and available in bulk from any fastener supplier. Like any other "bolt" the MAJOR DIAMETER OF THE THREAD is the same as the diameter of the unthreaded portion or "shank" and the only way they stay "with" a part they're screwed THROUGH is if an additional retainer is used on them. Commonly a "wavy" spring steel washer of some kind is stuck on them or some other method of retaining them that puts the retainer between the shield and machine is used. But more often than not when the fastener needs to stay with the shield a dedicated, specialized fastener "system" that's preassembled and installed into a much larger hole in the shield by riveting, welding, screwing etc is used. Dzus fasteners are just one example. And you still end up with retention hardware in the "joint" and a very WEAK joint. Where shields have to add to or at least no detract from the "strength" of the machine and are there to shield moving parts from anything but human hands or other appendages, the shield is simply screwed/bolted to the machine just like every other part so the joint is as strong and "tight" as possible. And since modern fasteners have ROLLED THREADS rather than "cut threads" when produced in BULK for "industrial" use, you're pissing away lots of time and money making them if you're doing so with anything but a "thread rolling" machine you're not operating so much as babysitting as it does its thing. The only modern fasteners produced on a mass-production basis these days are sections of "ready-thread" and tiny screws that can't be "roll threaded". And there are damned few of those produced on a "mass production" basis.
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted: To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
Nice work would take me a month of Sundays, although I am self thought and just have limited hobby class machines, but those 123 blocks are nice I have been thinking about getting some as I use just big squares of tool steel to true stuff on my mill, but those I would buy those, It would take me too long to make and I would never get on to stuff I want to make, spend too long messing about making jigs and tools instead of the stuff, Thanks for the video it all helps a putz like me to learn. Tim from England.
Ah! That perpetual, ever growing, often changing (in priority) list of projects. Mine would look like a streamer if I hung it out in the wind. And yes, it just grew some more. Today's project intent is to go gather as much junk wood as I can easily find and make some charcoal for forge and heat treating work. No doubt I'll be eyeballing potential material for blocks in the process.
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted: To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
If i were to have time to make these, i'd try to add other shapes to the set from the get-go. Say a cube, say a longer version, say a half sphere, a few triangular prisms. This whole thing reminds me of toys i used to play with as a kid, made of wood. Later, as i grew up, i used them to prop up various other, more modern toys by combining them with tape. And so, i strongly believe that these would make an incredibly useful tool pack, if we could come up with various other forms to implement to it. And...it's not easy. I spent these 10 minutes sketching shapes that fit the "dogma" of these 123 blocks. Either way, a fine set as is, Robin did a great job with designing these.
Tom, thanks for showing! Rob, thanks for the design :) As wgm4341 said, registration holes/pins might be worth to consider (to ease alignment.) Having one screw on the short side helps for rotation but sometimes you just want to opposite i.e. avoid the rotation. Thus, an additional registration pin would come handy.
Mr. Lipton. I'll offer one of my favorite hacks regarding parallels and machining vises. We've seen many; separators [spring loaded tubes outside the jaws], or coil springs bearing against them, or two drops of fast-set glue, or magnets, or rubber bands [!], or nothing at all.... I use strapping tape, the steel variety binding loads to pallets. I simply cut a length and form one of three ways, depending on part width. #1 is hair-pin like, one leg longer than the other. Longer is convexed to contact ends of parallel, the shorter hits middle of opposite bent with a little snow ski like tip. That keeps it or parallel from moving out of jaws on repeated parts. #2 is great when drilling; a U-form, with ski tipped ends. #3 for wide items; roll a circular length around 3x the jaw opening and lap the joint with a strap clip. #Freebie. I don't work production; but time saved means I work on my own projects. When possible, instead a lot of deburring, use 4 parallels. Outboard of those supporting workpiece, insert shorter parallels at the jaws. Instant chip and burr clearance. A few people know me, as Toolmaker51.
can anyone clarify for me what tool is being used at 6:15 please? it looks like a regular twist drill, but it must have a flat bottom to create the square bottom of the counter-bore right?
Actually you align them on a surface plate. Pre placing super accurate dowel holes prior to heat treat and grind would mean some jig grinding. I don't actually need much of an excuse to get one so better I leave that off. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
I had considered that but I think that would raise the level of block construction difficulty about 4 times or more. i don't think just reaming the holes would give good enough positional accuracy to keep things square or parallel when interchanging with every other block. Not only do you need every hole within .0002+- but you also have to have every face square and parallel not only to each other but also to the holes and the faces have to be equal spaced from the center of the holes. I think that would be a big job for even a talented and skilled machinist.
@@oxtoolco OR better still, align them while pushed into a big V block so two adjacent (mutually perpendicular) pairs of faces are aligned simultaneously
On the deep holes that feed across the whole block: did you counter bore the hole to have a flat bottom? or did you just use a normal twist bit and leave the taper/counter-sink end?
I was thinking today, and that can be a dangerous thing for me, i wanted a method of quick, accurate, rigid, and easily reconfigurable fixturing, and after some sketches I figured the most practical was going to be traditional setup blocks with asymmetrical counterbored and tapped holes virtually identical to these.
Another one for the project list. Hate you guys. ;) Is there a special reason you choose A2? Stability during heat treat (compared to say O2 - Which is very stable too), the ability to be lapped to a very good finish, or something else I miss?
How well does Anchorlube work compared to Tap Magic. Picked up a good size bottle for free at a trade show. I like the idea of water based and it doesn't smell bad, I haven't used it yet though.
Tried to model these in cad and can't get my head around how all is going together. How can the screws clear eachother? What's the depth of the threaded section? 1/4 inch bolts?
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted: To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
I think it would take alot of setting up to manufacture these, you have to bore from each face of the block which would need 2 setups even with a 5 axis (in my head)
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted: To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
Most interesting! You have obviously left out the grinding and I presume heat treating. I wonder how many of those that you could do at once in a single setup to get the cycle time down on an automatic machine?
These are not heat treated yet. Just rough ground for basic geometry and to get closer to finish dimensions. I think we should talk to NYCCNC about cycle times for production. Didn't he just get another mill he needs to feed? Cheers, Tom
To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
Good Guy, you can drill out normal 123 blocks with carbide end mills, with all the faulty ones from China you have to it just to get normal as advertised function.
Chris, not only the Chinese ones I bought 2 sets of the brown and sharp ones- same problem even though the picture showed different. Oh wait probably Chinese also.
Wait a second, are those blocks chiral? There's definitely a difference in the faces along the x, y, and z axis axes, since the outer corners can either have threaded holes or counterbores. essentially that means you can either have left-handed or right-handed blocks, and I suspect you'd want to have both.
Yes, these are chiral. Just like dice can be chiral: www.alaricstephen.com/main-featured/2017/8/14/dice-chirality I would make two pairs with "right" and "left-handed" blocks.
What in the HECK....!!!!! I am sitting here reading my magazine "Cutting Tool Enginering".. while watching your video and I was 4 to 5 minutes in, and was questioning, if you realized if you had already done a video on these blocks, from last week? I moved the cursor around, to check the time of how long this video was going to be, ah.... 10 minute long video, there must be more to this... I'll let it play and read my magazine.. now I an on page 32 and I am looking at an article by "Tom Lipton" on these blocks.... LOL... For a second, I thought I was in the Twilight Zone... questioning, how am I seeing the same thing on the computer and my magazine about the modular 1, 2, 3 blocks.... LOL.. what are the odds that this would happen at the same time... that is just weird ..... all the while cool!!!1
oxtoolco Can you go into a bit more detail please? Are you just so good that you're hitting it right at the high spot or is there some ox magic happening there?
@@c0mputer You just randomly hit it but you have to have your wits about you and stop whenever it doesn't wobble (much). It's a pain when (as you see here) the second or third hit does the trick, but you don't stop yourself in time!)
Tom Amazon has some inexpensive 1-2-3 blocks, says they are hardened. Could you use these to save some money (McMaster-Car wants an arm and leg for A2 1x2 oversize tool steel bar stock??? John
Hi Tom, Just watched this again because I have been thinking, if I had standard 1,2,3 blocks could I tap some of the existing holes and use helicoils to produce the threads? or would the blocks be too hard to tap? Reason being, I don't have a mill or surface grinder and I don't think my old Myford ml7 lathe with a vertical milling slide would be enough to produce the blocks. Cheers
These are amazing! I have a quick question for you. I love using 1-2-3 blocks when working on non-metalwork projects, but the problem I have is my blocks came covered in oil to prevent them from rusting, so I have a bit of a challenge. Either clean off the oil and let them rust, or get oil all over everything I use the blocks with. Do you have any advice for someone like myself who uses these for stuff outside metalwork? Thanks!
In metal working everything constantly has an oily film so they never rust. My recommendation is to clean off the cosmoline, spray them with WD-40, wipe it off as well as possible and repeat every month or so. They should be clean enough to not dirty up your work, but still prevent rust. If they do start rusting, get it off immediately and it they will be fine. It's only when they sit while rusty that they get bad.
Haha, that would be a great idea. I really love using them for all kinds of stuff... weighting down templates, lifting things up by a specific amount for clamping/leveling/etc. I use them much like you would use "bench cookies" but prefer the 123 over those by far! Thanks again!
Could you have a pin with a threaded hole cut in it (at a right angle to its axis) that you insert from a hole perpendicular to the one that you are intending to hold the work from? That way you have a set of pins with different threaded holes for different fasteners?
Renzetti for president. Honestly is there anything that guy can't think up. Genius
Dave
These blocks are a very good example of how almost anything can be improved by thoughtful analysis and design. Thanks to you both. I almost wish the tool makers in China have watched these videos.
If were lucky they will and sell them for $20 bucks a pair. Cheers, Tom
@@oxtoolco Did you ever end up grinding these after heat treat?
@@PeteBrubaker Hey Pete. Yes I did. I use them regularly. Cheers. Tom
@@oxtoolco I was thinking about this some more. Would you consider showing us the procedure in a meatloaf episode? How did you square them up then grind the same amount off either side to ensure they came to size and that the hole pattern remained centered? I can grind something square, and I can match the pieces that are on the grinder. I sure would love to know how to approach something like that. I know you can't show the work because you already did it, but maybe a walk through of what you did? Cheers! Pete.
They are looking great Tom! Thanks for making this video and thanks for the shout out for my channel. Looking forward to the grind an lap video :)
ATB, Robin
Robin, this is an excellent improvement to the blocks. I plan to make a few sets for my shop.
Thanks for the video Tom.
ROBRENZ Such a tease! Someone needs to step up here and finish these.
Theball Player who better than you Robin
Sounds like a Patent should be filed to me..
I think that there maybe a problem with filing a Patent now that the item has been shown in "the public domain" here on You Tube with @ 13 K people having seen them. Disclaimer, I am no lawyer or Patent Attorney, I am just going on some information I picked up sometime previously that I somehow happened to recall here and now. It would be up to ROBRENZ to determine if is possible and if he wants and can afford to proceed.
Excellent!!!! Loved seeing the product and explanation first in the video then the machining process. Splendid!!!!!
I'm having trouble describing my reaction to the awesomeness I just watched!
Amazing concept and amazing to see you make it look so easy...
Thanks so much for posting!
Tom I am glad your schedule and responsibilities have slacked up and blessing all us guys and gals who really appreciate,enjoy,and apply things we learn from you. Take good care of yourself I am told to do the same thing so I will pass it on.😀
caught Chuck's vid on 1-2-3 blocks yesterday (8/29/33) and Rezetti was mentioned, and now this video. Thx Tom for shooting the making of these, Bear.
This would be a cool kind of video for every once in a while. Although I do love to hear you explaining the details, you've been helping me become a better machinist.
Alignment of the blocks to each other is easy by putting the two on a mag chuck against the reference rail, turn the chuck on and then tighten the screws, Same can be done with a magnetic V block.
Sounds like somebody needs some precision ground permament magnets!
Robrenz?
Tell you this, you’d better have your mind clear when you check out his channel. No sleeping! He delivers some high-level knowledge and experience. I’d probably find it even more useful if I was a machinist, but someday...who knows? Robrenz and the other unbelievably informative machinists out there sharing their knowledge for free make it possible for a wannabe machinist to walk into a shop with considerable basic info already learned-what employer wouldn’t like to see that in a new hire?
I’m kidding about me starting that career (cause I’m 71) but I pass this stuff along to younger folks constantly.
Thanks for another great video-always fascinating.
Great format on this video for this type of project. Well done! (as usual). Thanks for sharing; thanks for being there, Tom.
I dig the, "show me don't tell me" new video production style!
Mee too.
Its well suited for this kind of project, where the magic is in the application and the operations are basic enough to need little-to-no explanation. At least the ones Tom didn't reserve for Robin ;-)
Hi Tom and Robin,
Nice job! Very clever design Robin.
Steve
Nice looking blocks there Tom! Robin is an awesome guy, I have really been enjoying the podcast he was on. Good to see some new Ox Tool machining footage.
Hey Adam,
Thanks for stopping by buddy. Got to get back on the horse here. All the best. Tom
Super cool Robyn is an amazing watch.
Thanks for the show of the blocks Tom. While looking at the blocks It struck me how to fix another problem I'd been thinking about with out much forward movement for ever and there is the solution fully formed.
Tks for the channel
Will
Actually it was the Moore Special tool Company that first made these, still grateful for the video.
Nice. He does come up with some really Kool ideas! Like the consolidation of video content to get the basics across in what was obviously a fair amount of work. Thanks for the video.
I'm still in the title sequence and I've already hit the like button.
Nice video and great tool ( love Robins videos ) nice short but conscise video thank you
Great video as always with an extremely clever and even elegant design with the bolt screw threads relieved like that so the blocks can be screwed together in any orientation. I wonder what other fantastic ideas Robin has tucked away in his magic shop that we haven't seen yet. The concept puts every other 123 block including Suburbans and Moore's no matter how well made into ancient technology territory imo. This is exactly how the first 123 blocks should have been designed.
Tom you do amazing work. You have also inspired me to make my own tools as a posed to buying them. Keep up the excellent work
I just read your article on 123 blocks last night, this was suggested today! Great vid
Excellent subject Tom, and nice mention of RR's precision works, you guys are awesome!
I like this idea... very handy. I think this should be a project for every new machinist to make a set. Good basic skills used, needs to be accurate, very functional. Now I'll have to make a set... good weekend project for a bobby guy like me.
Great that is all I need another project. These look great, thanks Tom for sharing.
Very nice presentation. I purchased a pair of Suburban blocks around thirty years ago. They do not have all of the features that these blocks have.
I love this idea! I was about ready to just buy some 11 hole Suburban blocks. These will work better for what I need. Thumbs up and thanks!
in machine building, we have two types of panels a cover and removable guarding, the bolts must stay in the latter once removed. so i have to make hundreds of these bolts, your method is correct but you can get away with using a single tapped hole to a depth with a grub screw as a stop, you wont need to tighten down as the parting tool will make it tighten against the stop. this way its repeatable and quick :)
Oh bullshit. In "machine building" there are all types of shields/guards and systems/fasteners for attaching them and there is no requirement that the fastener stay with the shield/guard. Those "bolts" (BOLTS screw in to NUTS while SCREWS screw into THREADED HOLES in PARTS) are nothing but Allen-head cap screws no different than those used in millions of different machines/applications and available in bulk from any fastener supplier. Like any other "bolt" the MAJOR DIAMETER OF THE THREAD is the same as the diameter of the unthreaded portion or "shank" and the only way they stay "with" a part they're screwed THROUGH is if an additional retainer is used on them. Commonly a "wavy" spring steel washer of some kind is stuck on them or some other method of retaining them that puts the retainer between the shield and machine is used. But more often than not when the fastener needs to stay with the shield a dedicated, specialized fastener "system" that's preassembled and installed into a much larger hole in the shield by riveting, welding, screwing etc is used. Dzus fasteners are just one example. And you still end up with retention hardware in the "joint" and a very WEAK joint. Where shields have to add to or at least no detract from the "strength" of the machine and are there to shield moving parts from anything but human hands or other appendages, the shield is simply screwed/bolted to the machine just like every other part so the joint is as strong and "tight" as possible. And since modern fasteners have ROLLED THREADS rather than "cut threads" when produced in BULK for "industrial" use, you're pissing away lots of time and money making them if you're doing so with anything but a "thread rolling" machine you're not operating so much as babysitting as it does its thing. The only modern fasteners produced on a mass-production basis these days are sections of "ready-thread" and tiny screws that can't be "roll threaded". And there are damned few of those produced on a "mass production" basis.
@@deeremeyer1749 I think you totally missed what he said.
This is how all 1 2 3 blocks should be made. Pure genius.
whats happening in Min 8:30 to 8:40? Whats the reason for this knocking on the head of the screw"?
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted:
To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
😊
Nice work would take me a month of Sundays, although I am self thought and just have limited hobby class machines, but those 123 blocks are nice I have been thinking about getting some as I use just big squares of tool steel to true stuff on my mill, but those I would buy those, It would take me too long to make and I would never get on to stuff I want to make, spend too long messing about making jigs and tools instead of the stuff, Thanks for the video it all helps a putz like me to learn. Tim from England.
Nice Tom, a set of those are on my list of projects. Craig
Mind blown. Thanks, Tom. Thanks, Robin.
Flat bottom drills make the rock n' roll world go round...
EFormance Engineering funny ref to queen👍
I thought so- that was a custom ground flat bottom drill. Niiice
Another project to add to the list. Be sure to check out the cube concept from you tube "solid rock machine shop" another handy fixture concept.
Thanks Brian.
Ah! That perpetual, ever growing, often changing (in priority) list of projects. Mine would look like a streamer if I hung it out in the wind. And yes, it just grew some more. Today's project intent is to go gather as much junk wood as I can easily find and make some charcoal for forge and heat treating work. No doubt I'll be eyeballing potential material for blocks in the process.
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc.
I guess this is the "cube concept" video: ua-cam.com/video/gzPIBvWiaVE/v-deo.html
I think Brian was referring to this one ua-cam.com/video/RFuX2zOZWIE/v-deo.html
Steve
6:39 what is tapping lubricant? it looks like white lithium grease or anti-sieze.
I believe that's some Bar-Z special sauce... channel: Shadon HKW
Anchor Lube, looks like?
Anchor Lube. Water based. Excellent on Stainless, good on most everything, even wood.
And they'll send you a free sample.
@oxtoolco real question. What exactly were you doing at 8:35? Hitting the fastener straight I presume, but how does that work?
Matthew La Rosa I had the same question...does hitting it eliminate the wobble?
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted:
To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
Nice vid Tom. And Robin has a great idea there.
Wow. So much work involved in making each of these o:
If i were to have time to make these, i'd try to add other shapes to the set from the get-go. Say a cube, say a longer version, say a half sphere, a few triangular prisms. This whole thing reminds me of toys i used to play with as a kid, made of wood. Later, as i grew up, i used them to prop up various other, more modern toys by combining them with tape.
And so, i strongly believe that these would make an incredibly useful tool pack, if we could come up with various other forms to implement to it. And...it's not easy. I spent these 10 minutes sketching shapes that fit the "dogma" of these 123 blocks.
Either way, a fine set as is, Robin did a great job with designing these.
Universal machinist Meccano setup kit. Great idea. Better get busy you have a lot of holes to drill. Cheers, Tom
45-45-90 and 30-60-90 blocks are already designed with hole patterns that work with the 1-2-3 blocks. Just need some free time.
Tom, thanks for showing!
Rob, thanks for the design :)
As wgm4341 said, registration holes/pins might be worth to consider (to ease alignment.) Having one screw on the short side helps for rotation but sometimes you just want to opposite i.e. avoid the rotation. Thus, an additional registration pin would come handy.
The opposite end has two holes so you can stack them in a non rotating configuration. Cheers, Tom
All these silly comments, all should just say nice job, useful tool.
Mr. Lipton. I'll offer one of my favorite hacks regarding parallels and machining vises. We've seen many; separators [spring loaded tubes outside the jaws], or coil springs bearing against them, or two drops of fast-set glue, or magnets, or rubber bands [!], or nothing at all....
I use strapping tape, the steel variety binding loads to pallets. I simply cut a length and form one of three ways, depending on part width.
#1 is hair-pin like, one leg longer than the other. Longer is convexed to contact ends of parallel, the shorter hits middle of opposite bent with a little snow ski like tip. That keeps it or parallel from moving out of jaws on repeated parts.
#2 is great when drilling; a U-form, with ski tipped ends.
#3 for wide items; roll a circular length around 3x the jaw opening and lap the joint with a strap clip.
#Freebie. I don't work production; but time saved means I work on my own projects. When possible, instead a lot of deburring, use 4 parallels. Outboard of those supporting workpiece, insert shorter parallels at the jaws. Instant chip and burr clearance.
A few people know me, as Toolmaker51.
can anyone clarify for me what tool is being used at 6:15 please? it looks like a regular twist drill, but it must have a flat bottom to create the square bottom of the counter-bore right?
If only we had a sine-bar w/matching holes, the set would be complete.
Frank
Great design, and great idea. I'd like to see when you counter bored the long bores....
6:15
I would love to see more video from both Robin and Tom.
fascinating blocks of many holes! :)
Hi Tom, This was a great video and I think I will try to some when I have enough ability. Keep up the good work.
Bill from Seattle.
Definitely impressive. Keep on keeping on.
The only improvement I could think of, is to ream all of the tapped holes so that they can accept a dowel pin, to allow for precision alignment.
Actually you align them on a surface plate. Pre placing super accurate dowel holes prior to heat treat and grind would mean some jig grinding. I don't actually need much of an excuse to get one so better I leave that off. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
I had considered that but I think that would raise the level of block construction difficulty about 4 times or more. i don't think just reaming the holes would give good enough positional accuracy to keep things square or parallel when interchanging with every other block. Not only do you need every hole within .0002+- but you also have to have every face square and parallel not only to each other but also to the holes and the faces have to be equal spaced from the center of the holes. I think that would be a big job for even a talented and skilled machinist.
@@oxtoolco OR better still, align them while pushed into a big V block so two adjacent (mutually perpendicular) pairs of faces are aligned simultaneously
very nice blocks.
On the deep holes that feed across the whole block: did you counter bore the hole to have a flat bottom? or did you just use a normal twist bit and leave the taper/counter-sink end?
Flat bottom drill. I show a short clip in the video. Look at the tip of the long drill. Cheers, Tom
I was thinking today, and that can be a dangerous thing for me, i wanted a method of quick, accurate, rigid, and easily reconfigurable fixturing, and after some sketches I figured the most practical was going to be traditional setup blocks with asymmetrical counterbored and tapped holes virtually identical to these.
Goddamn, those blocks are works of art! Thanks for the video and the education!
Very very good, is there 5 all toll or more and ho many screws
Joe
Another one for the project list. Hate you guys. ;)
Is there a special reason you choose A2? Stability during heat treat (compared to say O2 - Which is very stable too), the ability to be lapped to a very good finish, or something else I miss?
Low distortion clean scale less heat treat. Grinds well and can be hardened up to RC65. I think you should scrape yours into perfect geometry.......
im looking at this thinking.. "hmmm-kay.. i guess thesecould be done with my equipment. but who am i kidding. i wouldnt live long enough..
How well does Anchorlube work compared to Tap Magic. Picked up a good size bottle for free at a trade show. I like the idea of water based and it doesn't smell bad, I haven't used it yet though.
Tried to model these in cad and can't get my head around how all is going together. How can the screws clear eachother? What's the depth of the threaded section? 1/4 inch bolts?
There is only about 1/4 of threads at the bottom of each counterbore.
Somehow I thought the screw heads would clear eachother inside the block, but I realise that's not the case.
That Apron looks awsome! i need to get one. 7:18
Hmm turning away the threads of the screw to be able to connect two threaded parts was pretty neat.. never thought of or seen that before.
Nice to see the circles around the holes that need counterbores right at the time I was thinking I would have to do that to avoid a bozo. 👍🏽
I'm confused about why you hit the screw with the hammer when you were setting it up in the lathe to remove the threads...?
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted:
To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
I mean .. John Saunders.. do it for the team
I think it would take alot of setting up to manufacture these, you have to bore from each face of the block which would need 2 setups even with a 5 axis (in my head)
M
Ghg
Should these be machined slightly oversized and then ground to size?
what are you achieving by hitting the cap screw head with the copper drift while turning on the lathe??
In reply to this question elsewhere on this page, Tom posted:
To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
I would buy in a heartbeat
I didn’t see any hardening or precision grinding on the blocks, what material was used and is the parallelism in the milling process enough??
They're 1,2,3s man I can't imagine they're not hardened and ground lol
Most interesting! You have obviously left out the grinding and I presume heat treating.
I wonder how many of those that you could do at once in a single setup to get the cycle time down on an automatic machine?
l wilton all depends on the size of your vice(s).
These are not heat treated yet. Just rough ground for basic geometry and to get closer to finish dimensions. I think we should talk to NYCCNC about cycle times for production. Didn't he just get another mill he needs to feed? Cheers, Tom
John doesn't seem too comfortable with mild steel, let alone A2. Like a lot of these modern CNC shops they are nearly Aluminum only.
Man, power tapping always makes me pucker up!
Fantastic, where can I buy them?
Hi Tom Thank you great video Ducky
You're not messing around with that tap. Going right at her. :)
Another good one, thanks Bob
Thanks for sharing Tom!
Something so simple, just needed a minor modification and it becomes a far superior and useful implement. Thanks Robin and Tom
Is It possible to buy 123 blocks with this pattern? Ive not seen any like these. Thanks!
What about some kind of precission boring so it can also use shoulder bolts?
Wait, what were you doing with the hand-drill there?
My guess is a light chamfer/deburr of the tap circumference at the bottom of the deep counterbores....?
Breaking the edge on the entrance to the tapped hole at the bottom. Makes the fastener start easily. Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom What material you using
Kenneth Lindeman it looks like he is using A2.
Yeah it says in the video description that it's A2
A2 toolsteel
And more questions How much material left for grinding after hardening
BTW always enjoy your video Thanks for all the efforts to show guide and entertain
Nice - it only took you ten minutes Tom - think I will give it a go ;-)
Back with more greatness
What was the purpose of tapping the head of the screw while it was spinning in the lathe? Does that center it better? Seems so random.
To center the fastener for minimum runout. Actually a lot faster than trying to indicate it. All you have to remember is to quit hitting it when it runs true. Cheers, Tom
Tom Can one modify chinese block to get close to same function or is the hardened nature going to make it impossible?
Guy Good you will spend nearly as much in carbide as you would buying A2.
Sheldon, Dont have a surface grinder
Good Guy, you can drill out normal 123 blocks with carbide end mills, with all the faulty ones from China you have to it just to get normal as advertised function.
Chris, not only the Chinese ones I bought 2 sets of the brown and sharp ones- same problem even though the picture showed different. Oh wait probably Chinese also.
Brings to mind the saying "Oh how the mighty have fallen"
Wait a second, are those blocks chiral? There's definitely a difference in the faces along the x, y, and z axis axes, since the outer corners can either have threaded holes or counterbores. essentially that means you can either have left-handed or right-handed blocks, and I suspect you'd want to have both.
Yes, these are chiral. Just like dice can be chiral: www.alaricstephen.com/main-featured/2017/8/14/dice-chirality I would make two pairs with "right" and "left-handed" blocks.
What in the HECK....!!!!! I am sitting here reading my magazine "Cutting Tool Enginering".. while watching your video and I was 4 to 5 minutes in, and was questioning, if you realized if you had already done a video on these blocks, from last week? I moved the cursor around, to check the time of how long this video was going to be, ah.... 10 minute long video, there must be more to this... I'll let it play and read my magazine.. now I an on page 32 and I am looking at an article by "Tom Lipton" on these blocks.... LOL... For a second, I thought I was in the Twilight Zone... questioning, how am I seeing the same thing on the computer and my magazine about the modular 1, 2, 3 blocks.... LOL.. what are the odds that this would happen at the same time... that is just weird ..... all the while cool!!!1
Cue sci fi music......
Is it the camera or was the 2nd block from the movable jaw side during the facing operation moving?
Ok I missed something...When the allen bolt was in the lathe, you hit it with some sort of Knocker...why?
To reduce the runout of the threaded section.
oxtoolco Can you go into a bit more detail please? Are you just so good that you're hitting it right at the high spot or is there some ox magic happening there?
@@c0mputer You just randomly hit it but you have to have your wits about you and stop whenever it doesn't wobble (much). It's a pain when (as you see here) the second or third hit does the trick, but you don't stop yourself in time!)
That's just too cool!
Great design Robin, & video Tom. What are the proportions of the screw holes (1/2" c-c)? Thanks! I've got to get my surface grinder running..
Yes. That way you can get the blocks flush with the edges and it all lines up.
oxtoolco Thanks!
It looks like the counterbores are smaller than usual, what size did you go with for those?
Hello.Where I can buy this item with metric thread ?
Tom
Amazon has some inexpensive 1-2-3 blocks, says they are hardened. Could you use these to save some money (McMaster-Car wants an arm and leg for A2 1x2 oversize tool steel bar stock???
John
Try Hudson tool steel on the web. Looks like you can buy oversize 1 x 2 x 3 blocks of A2 for $10.50
oxtoolco Thanks for the pointer. John
Was I seeing that right? The work piece screwed into an arbor held by a chuck in a chuck?
What size thread did you use? And how do you keep the treaded hole from shrinking in heat treat? Thanks
the operation with the drill from 7:20 was that just to debur the holes?
Yes. To break the lead in edge of the tapped hole.
Quick and simple thank you I understand that
When will you complete the boss' printing press?
Hi Tom,
Just watched this again because I have been thinking, if I had standard 1,2,3 blocks could I tap some of the existing holes and use helicoils to produce the threads? or would the blocks be too hard to tap?
Reason being, I don't have a mill or surface grinder and I don't think my old Myford ml7 lathe with a vertical milling slide would be enough to produce the blocks.
Cheers
Raymond Marteene too hard to tap hardened blocks.
Is there a drawing of these anywhere?
These are amazing! I have a quick question for you. I love using 1-2-3 blocks when working on non-metalwork projects, but the problem I have is my blocks came covered in oil to prevent them from rusting, so I have a bit of a challenge. Either clean off the oil and let them rust, or get oil all over everything I use the blocks with. Do you have any advice for someone like myself who uses these for stuff outside metalwork? Thanks!
In metal working everything constantly has an oily film so they never rust. My recommendation is to clean off the cosmoline, spray them with WD-40, wipe it off as well as possible and repeat every month or so. They should be clean enough to not dirty up your work, but still prevent rust. If they do start rusting, get it off immediately and it they will be fine. It's only when they sit while rusty that they get bad.
Make your own set from 420 stainless. You would be unique and super cool. You could call them medical grade 1 2 3 blocks. Cheers. Tom
Haha, that would be a great idea. I really love using them for all kinds of stuff... weighting down templates, lifting things up by a specific amount for clamping/leveling/etc. I use them much like you would use "bench cookies" but prefer the 123 over those by far! Thanks again!
Autosol polish may work. I've used in on quite a few items but I am not 100% certain whether it will stain some materials or not.
Try coating your blocks with a fine coat of Boeshield T-9. Once dry, it is like a wax coating, not oily.
You know what would make these even better, is if you taped the counterbored sections for work holding
Already on the to do list, 7/16-20 thread and then threaded inserts for using smaller screw sizes when needed.
Could you have a pin with a threaded hole cut in it (at a right angle to its axis) that you insert from a hole perpendicular to the one that you are intending to hold the work from? That way you have a set of pins with different threaded holes for different fasteners?
Of course you could!