I've watched Tom's videos long before I bought the machinery for my hobby shop.....Tom, thank you! You are like the king of this type of video. The machining footage is hypnotic and acts like a sedative...I must have been a machinist in a former life.....I can fall asleep watching your vids, no offense.....I just like them....Thanks for doing these.
Love the feet, super elegant design. The results from the rough grind really goes to show how big a difference good inspection makes. Knowing the calibration on your plate is like night and day levels of confidence.
Well Tom, just laying here after back surgery, the mind is feeling hungry, and look, Meatloaf! Just what I was hungry for, Yumm! The project is looking good, looking forward to the next installment. Nice trick on the adjustable little feet. Meanwhile, I'm rooting the refrigerator, looking for meatloaf & such I missed, a good way to spend on your back time! Thanks!!
Enjoy seeing your Hermann Schmidt vise in the video. Got mine from the Hermann himself, in late 60's. He used to go door to door to the machine shops in North Jersey selling direct. I was an apprentice at the time and got to pay off in time. Also bought his vise sine plate, blocks, and angle. Still have everything.
Extremly interesting precesion construction of your master square. So interesting how pieces from raw steel can be fabricated into such a high precision square. I'm looking forward to the final work after the heat treat. Tom, Thank you for sharing.
REALLY cool video. I've been learning from you and adam and mrpete for awhile now, but still a little bit the newb. it took me awhile to figure out your adjustment legs. I eventually figured it out, and allI have to say is BRILLIANT! Very elegant design. Thanks for sharing.
For all of the CNC work that I do I still get a ton of enjoyment watching things done by hand like this. Well done, sir. Hope you are doing great! Tom Z
I just watched the LB lab tour video with John Saunders this morning, so when I saw 'composite', I was thinking glues, plastics, layers, you know, composites. When you were working on the lightening holes, I would have swore you were milling a composite material. I began to doubt that, when it 'clunked' on the vise, just a little, as you sat it down. Sounded like steel, then I started thinking, why would he need to lighten composite, THAT is why they are used, composites are already light. It was the grinding that confirmed my confusion. When you said composite, you meant multiple part... Ah well, it's been one of those days. My morning got interrupted for about 3 hours when a dare devil squirrel was immolated by a tranformer, which then exploded, knocking out power. My day never recovered... Guess I need to go back, and look at the first milling sequence, to see what I thought I was seeing... Thanks for sharing... still blown away by where you get to work. GeoD
Very nice indeed. Food for thought as a Master Square is quite expensive especially here in Australia. Just to have a nice reference tool like that for the small workshop would be so handy. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Good looking project. The welded construction is a huge benefit as making/getting a casting as base for such project is usually beyond the resources of us home gamers.
I notice your square check indicator. I like how heavy duty it is, using a big dial drop indicator instead of the smaller interapid that I use. I will be making one soon. Thanks for the inspiration!!
Man Tom that was a HUGE cut on that one side edge, hell even .003" is deep on my t&p, but i'm grinding dry for the moment, gotta weld up a pvc wier tank for coolant. Got all the stuff, just lack the time. Ps. Thanks for getting back to the vids!
Looking good Tom! Have you considered grinding/turning a very shallow taper on the head of a SHCS for your adjustment screws for better resolution and shock stability instead of the steep flat head angle? Thanks again for all your support! ATB, Robin
Hey Robin. You are probably right it would be better to have a steeper angle. I built one flexure before hand and tested it to see how well it behaved. It took considerable force to move the foot and seemed controllable so I decided I would trade fastener tension for resolution in this case. The goal is to lap the feet accurately but have an adjustable back door if needed. All the best, Tom
robrenz.....sir...the internet isnt the same without constant videos from you..I sure wish youd either stop making videos aLL TOGETHER SO WE SO SIT AND WAIT.,.,OR MAke some videos....youre missed ir!!
I assume that the heat treat would stress relieve the block some.. Not sure of that's correct. Would it have been a good idea to heat the whole part to stress relieve before doing the rough grinding before heat treat? I like the setup for milling out the triangles.. I assume that they were mainly for looks. If going for weight I would think you could mill rectangles in the flat sides that mate the plates before welding.. I look forward to seeing this project finished. Thanks for the video..
Hi Max, The neat thing about case hardening is you get both qualities in one part. A hard tough exterior and a soft ductile core. We will see about long term stability I guess. Easy enough to monitor. Mass and weight are you friends when it comes to stuff like this. Its the old if its heavy it must be quality and precise...... Cheers, Tom
Thanks, I understand the case hardening process.. I'm was curious about the project changing shape since it's manly all cold rolled steel. I know that machining will also allow the material to distort.. Guy Lautard mentioned it in one of his bedside reader books. As I understand the heat treat process. The metal is heated to a point that allows carbon to be introduced into the surface making the surface harder..Still have a can of Kasenit around here someplace. I'm thinking that at that temp any stress due to the cold rolling of the base pieces would be relieved causing the part to shift. Also the welding would create more stress in the part. I was wondering if it would have been a good idea to stress relieve the part before initial finishing and heat treat.
Fantastic video. Fascinating. Do you use the file wrong at 1:50? I had this idea that you're only supposed to move the file along its length, not side to side.
You didn't need to flip the vice around to mill those triangles. Simply flip the part in the vice around the spindle axis and those angles are now on the Y axis as they were before.
I know this is old This was sent for heat treatment? What kind of steel was this? The base (1st part) looked like 2x2 1/4 hot rolled? The sides might be tool steel but look like plate?
Tom, when you surface grind a big piece how does it remain perfectly consistent when the wheel is actually wearing while being used. Are there automatic compensators on the machine? I do realize it is a minute amount of wear, but it IS still wearing.
Bobby W you're only cutting with the outside leading edge, and as it breaks down you still have the rest of the way towards the center, but it will round off vs leaving a nice square edge to cut with as the wheel breaks down. Hope this makes sense.
I've been wondering if it would be a good idea to have to wheel at an angle against the travel of the work. Any tiny imperfections on the wheel would be evened out. Of course it has to be perpendicular if you were to make some kind of profile cut on an edge.
Only the "high spot" of the wheel is contacting the surface as it moves along it. Grinding wheels are used to "machine" crankshaft journals and other precision shafts that have sufaces that aren't concentric with the centerline, but in those situations the work is rotating as well and there is a lot of coolant involved and the stone is grinding only a portion of the width of the journal. It's also done post-heat treatment and final polishing is done with emery cloth bands that are like a narrow belt sander against the journal. The other major difference is that crankshaft journals have plain bearings supporting them in the block and supporting the connecting rod and those bearings are made with steel backs but have relatively soft "babbit" surfaces in contact with the journals. There is oil clearance built into the "joint" so the bearing "floats" on a hydrodynamic '"film" of oil and in theory the shaft never contacts the bearings. And that is pretty much true except for at startup with no oil pressure or high-load situations with insufficient oil pressure. Then there's a slight amount of wear in the first case and very short part life in the second. The bearing and journals are obviously of different materials and "self-lubricate" and are never TRULY "dry" at startup. Really high-quality bearings used in some heavy-duty diesels actually have a "depression" in the middle of the bearing so oil can "puddle" there at shutdown. Surface tension and the fact that the engine begins cooling and the oil thickens immediately after shutdown help keep oil in bearings as well. I can't say that I've ever seen a flat and straight surface ground for precision and it seems counter-intuitive to me since a grinding stone is going to leave a rougher surface finish and scratches that are small "ditches" with some of the material "dug" out of them sticking up around the edges. I'm not a machinist but I've been turning wrenches for a long time as a professinal diesel mechanic for 25+ years and I've done some "minor" machine work and a lot of fabrication and surface prep and I know a lot of machinists and have pretty extensive experience in every diesel industry except marine. I've also done a lot of automotive work and I'm a "gun nut", so I'm pretty familiar with most things that are machined to precise tolerances. And I've used a lot of precision instruments and standards and learned "the old fashioned" way how to dress grinding stones, sharpen drill bits, properly use files and hacksaws, etc. I've gotta say to me this looks like one hell of a lot of work and time and material put into something you can't make without having the commercial tools and standards and gauges to make sure its right. The only way to get them is to buy, rent, borrow or steal them. That's the case with all quality tools that "DIY" guys use to make their own "made it myself" tools that are usually made because its "cheaper". Well, it may be "cheaper" but if "cheaper" is in part due to borrowing or renting or stealing a tool from someone else, the only one paying for your tool in its entirety is still you. And if its a purchase to keep or rental then the owner and everybody "upstream" of you and that owner benefit from the hard work and effort and skill and investment other people put into the tool and they've been compensated in some way. But if its a tool borrowed from someone under the guise of "personal use" to make or fix something to keep and use or to repair or make something for someone else "gratis" and offers to compensate the lender anyway are refused, that's also a "pay it forward" situation. But buying a tool to use and then returning it for a refund in my book is stealing and stealing is stealing and if its to make a "DIY" tool to then use to produce MORE "commercial" tools for sale or trade, that's stealing and fraud. No matter what nobody is ever a TRUE "DIYer" unless the "project" is "living off the land" and that project is started by leaving all your current commercially manufactured possessions behind and starting out bare-assed naked from scratch. Like I said, I'm no machinists but I damn sure have used lots of quality tools and I know that you can make any standard really quickly and pretty easily from plain stock if you have quality machine tools and gauges and very basic materials to start with. Standards for checking micrometers 1-2" and larger are just precisely machined and lapped pieces of round stock that aren't going to grow or shrink providing you keep them and use them in the same environment in which you made them and machinist squares and straightedges are typically mild steel stock milled and lapped to be straight and perpendicular and flat. Most parts in even the best and most expensive heavy-duty diesel engines don't have tolerances tighter than .0001" and even then its going to be several ten thousandths on top of a thousandth with a +/- of a few more ten thousandths. I think the main reason we even seen ten thousandths in machines and areas easily accessible with ordinary tools and where the same fundamentals and processes apply whether its a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton or a 500-hp Caterpillar, is specifically to keep amateurs - mechanics AND machinists AND "remanufacturers - with cheap tools and/or no clue what they're doing from destroying parts and engines and potentially lives by using "good enough" techniques and processes and tools to "repair" or "rebuild" or "remanufacturer" machines where in operation it really DOES matter. It might seem like anybody who doesn't have the experience and skill and tools to do a job properly and is taking a shot at it anyway to "make" or "save" money doing it for themselves or someone else wouldn't be hesitant to work on an engine or other component or machine where the tolerances and clearances go to .0001" instead of just .001", but that extra decimal point requires vernier-scale micrometer to accurately measure and even though there are el-cheapo micrometers all over these days and "budget" tools aren't something new, vernier micrometers are typically the "too expensive" brands and ELECTRONIC CALIPERS, which are VERY commonly and incorrectly used AS a "micrometer" do NOT go to .0001". Even if they measure to .0005", that's not .0001". And the thing about DIYers looking to "save" or "make" money is that just like there's always that point where SOMEONE ELSE'S TIME AND EFFORT AND SKILL is "too expensive", there's a point where they realize that their OWN TIME AND EFFORT AND SKILL could get REALLY expensive. Especially if they're "DIY" project is owned by someone else who is ALSO "frugal" and doesn't want to pay professionals for their time and expertise and tools and probably isn't going to want to pay for even a "cheap" job twice. Much less pay for a NEW or REBUILT component or machine or part when the "mechanic" or "machinist" who took on the original job "dropped the ball" and the results was what a service manager I used to work with (RIP Andy) called "fuckage". Overall, what I see here with all the fancy and unnecessary machine work on what is really just a piece of square tubing with some plate welded onto it when the tubing itself if good enough for the "foundation" could have simply been milled flat and square and true itself as evidenced by the commercially-made example, is someone trying to put a lot of "value" into something that they know they're not going to get back out of and that is costing them a lot of extra time and money to make and that they're also going to end up paying someone else to "manufacturer" at least in part when they have it heat-treated. I'm not sure WHY you'd want a precision standard that would be very easily broken or chipped if dropped or struck with something harder than it accidentally while being used or when left unattended on a bench or table (the small portable toolboxes a lot of machinists use to store gauges and standards and other delicate, fragile and expensive tools and that are usually Kennedy and brown in color in contrast to red for regular toolboxes so "visitors" don't raid them and thieves overlook them) are small and portable so they go with the tools to the work area or the work is brought to them. And the bench or table they're on is usually on along a wall out of harms way and even then the tools are put back as soon as they're no longer needed. That's so they don't get left lying around where they're easily "lost" or damaged by some "visitor" seeing a new and unusual and NEAT tool to "inspect". Anything with a DIAL and a PLUNGER to make the needle move is a MAGNET for "visitors" to be drawn to and amuse and distract themselves with while a mechanic or machinist is working and they're "helping" or just "watching". And just like a shiny new toy to play with gets old quickly for a child when it turns out to not do anything that special despite outward appearances and children rarely put "toys" back where they got them, its very easy for a "visitor" to set the new toy aside when he finally has the mechanic's or machinist's attention, OR never notice them at all if he's in "pay attention to me mode" from the get-go and happens to catch the mechanic or machinist when he's "not busy" and knock them over or shove them out of the way with or for his own convenience when he needs a spot to put himself or something he's brought in to have worked on and one or both have to be FRONT AND CENTER and TAKEN CARE OF IMMEDIATELY OR SOONER IF POSSIBLE. Even then, shit happens and tools and gauges and standards get used and damaged or just plain wear out. GAUGES are very OFTEN hardened and polished on their anvils or contacts or jaws where they frequently contact HARD and possible sharp or gritty parts (that shouldn't happen but again, shit happens) and are moved on the part to get an accurate and precise measurement in one or more locations. But STANDARDS should be "soft" to save wear on the gauges and for toughness.
Can you elaborate on your choice to use 4 flexures instead of three? I know you can get something to sit on four points but it's much easier to use three, no? Also, caught the lexan pinch bar for the mag chuck ... NICE! Thanks for the video.
For squarish bases four points is more stable. The Hermann Schmidt has four lapped feet on it for this reason. Its over constrained but more stable in this situation. Three flexures would have been awkward with this design so I opted for symmetry. Cheers, Tom
Tom, you should have age (old) the part after welding. It can be distorted, bent with time. Aging can be speed up by placing in fire, and then slow cool down
Another great video. What is your clean up after using the NOGA Cool Mist? I have a mill about identical to yours except it says EISON and I am concerned with rust under the vise after using the Cool Mist. Do you dismount your vise to clean after using the mister either on your mill or surface grinder?
Shop vac. The surface under the mag chuck is prepared and protected prior to mounting the chuck. Once you have the mag chuck trued up you generally leave it as long as possible.
oxtoolco how do you prep the surface under the chuck so it won't rust? I just got a surface grinder and am wondering what will I find under there. Not sure if I'll take it off yet, waiting to hook it up and see how flat it is first.
Circles are not ellipses and squares are not rectangles, regardless of what grade-school teachers tell children just wrapping their heads around basic math are taught to "simplify" geometry. And although I've heard the "squares are rectangles" spiel and its at least somewhat "legitimate" IF you stay at the "elementary" definitions, I've never heard the "circles are ellipses" bit before and probably because it's obviously a lie. That's not to say its not in a lot of math "textbooks", but its false. Period. FIrst of all square vs. rectangle and then I'll dispense with the "circles are ellipses" garbage, although the reason neither squares are rectangles or circles are ellipses is the same in both cases and should be obvious and is obvious to people that learned geometry beyond an elementary "keep it simple" level. A RECTANGLE is a quadrilateral with two pairs of sides of different lengths perpendicular to each other and if one interior angle is a right angle they all are and its QUADRANGLE. Two measurements are required to calculate its area and its circumference and a third is required to calculate the volume of a box formed out of two rectangles by adding 4 vertical planes of the same lengths and widths. To calculate its volume you still need to measure the length and width of the rectangle and multiple the area by the height of that box. You have to measure that height because until you do, its not possible to know it precisely. So determining VOLUME of a box formed from rectangles requires THREE measurements and two calculations. L x W = A and A x H = V. That makes it a COMPLEX shape and "complex math" is required to determine the simple quantities of that shape and the object it forms when made three dimensional. A square is a also QUADRANGLE but its also a QUADRILATERAL and therefore it is NOT a rectangle. If it were it wouldn't be SQUARE and the box it forms when additional planes that have the same length and width are added to it in order to form a "box" wouldn't be a CUBE. There is a DIFFERENCE to go with the DISTINCTION. The word SQUARE refers not just to the equal lengths of the sides but the ability to calculate the area by SQUARING the length of a single side so only a single measurement and a single calculation is required. Its circumference is also calculated using that same single measurement. Measure one side and SQUARE that measurement and you know the area. Its a QUADRILATERAL rather than just a QUADRANGLE SIMPLE MATH for SIMPLE SHAPES. A CUBE is a CUBE because its VOLUME can be calculated with a single measurement and a single calculation by CUBING the length of one side. A square is a REGULAR geometric shape and a SIMPLE shape that can be SIMPLY measured with even a piece of string cut to the length of one side. If the string then matches any other perpendicular line's length, the object is a square or a cube. If the string is placed on each corner and an arc is swung through the square and the points of the four arcs intersect and form another square, the square IS "square" and its an equilateral quadrangle. Meaning its SQUARE.Another piece of string stretched from corner to corner can be cut and with those two pieces of string you can construct identical new squares with precisely the same dimensions and use them to check the "squareness" of other shapes that appear identical. The square is the SIMPLEST geometric shape and that's why its is taught FIRST and any reference to it as a "rectangle" only comes later when the DIFFERENCE between the two is taught and "if we take a square and make either pair of sides LONGER it becomes a RECTANGLE" is used to expand on the basics and move to a more COMPLEX concept and SHAPE. That gets translated as "a square is a rectangle" INCORRECTLY because the statement is that if a square has one pair of sides lengthened it BECOMES a rectangle. If one thing becomes something else with a different name and different qualities and its more complex, its NOT THE SAME THING. So a square is NOT a rectangle. EACH SHAPE has its OWN NAME because they are DIFFERENT. A CIRCLE is also a REGULAR and SIMPLE shape with a constant radius and using simple math the area is easily calculated from one measurement using a single operation. Its radius can be calculated from its diameter and vice versa ALSO with a single measurement and calculation. Using EITHER value its AREA and CIRCUMFERENCE can also be calculated using one measurement and a single operation. By that point in a geometry lesson after squares and retangles and cubes and boxes and probably triangles and pyramids and acute and obtuse angles have been digested and understood, PI is relatively simple and since some people are fraction people and some decimal people, between 22/7 and 3.14, one or the other should stick. By teaching AREA first, the good old SQUARE comes back into play and that's a relief for kids wondering how in the hell you measure the area of something that has no sides. PI multiplied by the radius SQUARED. Easily comprehended or at least remembered if the teacher is smart enough to tell them to see the CIRCLE as a SIMPLE SHAPE and to measure the RADIUS and use it to check to see that its actually a CIRCLE if the RADIUS is the same at two points on the outer arc with straight lines to them forming a RIGHT ANGLE at their intersection. If so, then the two diameters those radii are half of will form four equal PIE PIECES. So by measuring the radius and SQUARING IT and multiplying it by PI, the area is calculated. Circumference also seems like mission impossible but by taking the diameter because you're going AROUND THE WHOLE CIRCLE and multiplying THAT by PI a SINGLE measurement and calculation gives the circumference as well. And at that point, they whole volume thing is old hat and its a SIMPLE and REGULAR shape so AREA x HEIGHT gives the volume of a CYLINDER. The "circles are ellipses" thing probably comes from "if we take a circle and "flatten it" or "stretch it" it becomes an ellipse". But just like a square is not a rectangle, a CIRCLE is NOT an "ellipse". The same thing applies that if a CIRCLE becomes an ELLIPSE it CEASES being a CIRCLE. SOME people make that mental leap on their own and some teachers MAKE them make that leap because its IMPORTANT and some people and teachers just leave well enough alone and before long, COMPLETE LIES become "facts".
DEEREMEYER1 an ellipse is not a circle, but a circle *is* an ellipse. Look up the definition for ellipse and see what happens when focus 1 is in the same location as focus 2. To be even more general, circles, ellipses, parabolas, and hyperbolas are all cone sections. Similarly, a square *is* a special case of rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Without getting too deep into the presidential definition of what "is" is, the word is not generally used in a way that implies transitiveness. In other words, when you say "a circle is an ellipse", you're saying that the circle is part of the set of all ellipses (which it is). You are not saying that all ellipses are also circles, or "circle = ellipse".
DEEREMEYER1 Rectangle comes from the Latin rectus, meaning right. A rectangle is a closed planar shape containing 4 right angles. That is literally where its name comes from. All squares are rectangles.
Why don't grinders always grind a slightly uphill slant as you feed the workpiece across the wheel (not the back and forth horizontal, but the steady motion perpendicular to the repetitive horizontal axis)? Doesn't the wheel wear away and effectively become further from the surface the longer it is used?
Silly question or maybe its obvious but what is that white material the sparks are hitting on your surface grinder? I assume its to stop the sparks from going further and to get them to drop down but it looks like material of some sort but it isn't getting burnt by the sparks.
that round cylinder square looks a lot like one of mine that I made on the lathe. pretty handy using a black granite tile I got at home depot was flat' latest sweep not so much. there's still a corner that leads to the middle but hey found my squarest square demonstrate some fleemarket find squares for bet you'll find some old rusty one's that'll blow your mind thanks tom got one of those huntsman mig welders just love that helmet always be my favorite
hey Tom, is there anything that speaks against drilling the holes and other miscellaneous machining after the welding instead of before as you did? the webbing makes total sense but i would tend to think that the calibration holes would be something that could wait until the coarse grinding was completed cheers mike
That looks great, and I wish I had a surface grinder in my personal shop. A couple of questions: why four feet and a flexure on each? Won't that make it over-constrained?
oxtoolco Shouldn't the second pivot on the sine bar be resting against the the same jaw face as the gauge blocks? [edit] Never mind. . . Viewing error on my part. The tiny amount it obstructs the view of the vice, it appears to be resting on the end as others have observed.
Its a wussy soft start of sorts. Just old habit. Probably does not make a lick of difference but I probably got yelled at at some point for not doing it.......
Looking good so far. I bet you get it to 1 millionth or some other almost unobtainable accuracy. Ahl be baak for the next part. (I am still an Arnold fan).
Tom, just watched the video again and have a further question / observation about you using the Sine Bar. I take it that you were just using it to clock along and NOT to set an accurate angle. You had one roller touching the Gauge Blocks against the fixed jaw of the vice, but you had the other roller of the Sine Bar hanging off the end of the vice, therefore voiding any accurate setup by not using the 5 inch centers of the rollers. Or have I missed something I do not know about using a sine bar. I have always understood and used the bottom of the 2 rollers, the calculations of the roller centers and Slip Gauges to obtain the angle you need.
Hi Tom, thanks for the reply, I have put on reading glasses and zoomed in on the shot. Somehow it must either be the camera angle / reflection / optical illusion or lighting as it still looks as though the left hand roller is hanging off the vice and the Sine Bar body is touching the fixed jaw. Anyway you say all is fine so I will believe you this time around.
Tom, when does wheel degradation become and issue when grinding? I understand that the type of wheel and material have a lot to do with it, but if your taking large passes and wanted precision, how do you account for wheel degradation?
Could you have made some lighting cuts on the sides of the tube that have the plates added? I see the benefits of grinding those sides flat, but it seems to me that leaving only a few "bars" of material across the face and ribs along the sides for welding would be sufficient and there would be more weight removed. Interesting project anyway.
Hi Kenny. Its actually two inches thick. I had the rough stock plate of my welding table blanchard ground. It was actually pretty cheap at $500 and free delivery. Cheers. Tom
As always a great video with lots for me to learn. Thanks. I do have one question, what is the purpose of the cloth hanging on the end of the surface grinder?
Gilberto Diaz Castro i believe it’s a wet cloth to help catch the grinding dust and grit. it keeps some of the mess down that is surface grinding!! fun but messy.
Tom Lipton and Stefan Gotteswinter star in: "The World's Most Accurate Fidget Spinner Showdown"! No plans, just mano-a-mano for run-out and rotation time. What a showdown that would be!
"A machinist can never leave good enough alone." That's the most accurate quote I've ever heard.
Amen
Just skived off what i am supposed to be doing to watch this. Time well spent...clearly. Thanks for the film, truly lovely to watch. thanks
Patience, precision and planning, that's what makes this channel so very interesting. Thanks for sharing young man. Kindest regards. Joe.
Glad to see your smiling face working in your shop again on really neat projects.
Love to see you making stuff again (on camera for us to watch). Very enjoyable.
Nothing better than to watch the creation of a precision measurement tool to unobtainium specs!
I've watched Tom's videos long before I bought the machinery for my hobby shop.....Tom, thank you! You are like the king of this type of video. The machining footage is hypnotic and acts like a sedative...I must have been a machinist in a former life.....I can fall asleep watching your vids, no offense.....I just like them....Thanks for doing these.
Love the feet, super elegant design. The results from the rough grind really goes to show how big a difference good inspection makes. Knowing the calibration on your plate is like night and day levels of confidence.
Well Tom, just laying here after back surgery, the mind is feeling hungry, and look, Meatloaf! Just what I was hungry for, Yumm! The project is looking good, looking forward to the next installment. Nice trick on the adjustable little feet. Meanwhile, I'm rooting the refrigerator, looking for meatloaf & such I missed, a good way to spend on your back time! Thanks!!
Dear Mr. Wizzard I am so GLAD Your Back ! GREAT VID as usual .Greetings From New Mexico.
Enjoy seeing your Hermann Schmidt vise in the video. Got mine from the Hermann himself, in late 60's. He used to go door to door to the machine shops in North Jersey selling direct. I was an apprentice at the time and got to pay off in time. Also bought his vise sine plate, blocks, and angle. Still have everything.
Extremly interesting precesion construction of your master square. So interesting how pieces from raw steel can be fabricated into such a high precision square. I'm looking forward to the final work after the heat treat.
Tom, Thank you for sharing.
That's the nicest and cleanest welding table I've ever seen
Additive manufacturing has it's advantages but nothing beats substrative when it comes to viewing pleasure!
REALLY cool video. I've been learning from you and adam and mrpete for awhile now, but still a little bit the newb. it took me awhile to figure out your adjustment legs. I eventually figured it out, and allI have to say is BRILLIANT! Very elegant design. Thanks for sharing.
For all of the CNC work that I do I still get a ton of enjoyment watching things done by hand like this. Well done, sir. Hope you are doing great!
Tom Z
It is very impressive to see how aggressively those professional machines go through material
I just watched the LB lab tour video with John Saunders this morning, so when I saw 'composite', I was thinking glues, plastics, layers, you know, composites.
When you were working on the lightening holes, I would have swore you were milling a composite material. I began to doubt that, when it 'clunked' on the vise, just a little, as you sat it down.
Sounded like steel, then I started thinking, why would he need to lighten composite, THAT is why they are used, composites are already light.
It was the grinding that confirmed my confusion. When you said composite, you meant multiple part...
Ah well, it's been one of those days. My morning got interrupted for about 3 hours when a dare devil squirrel was immolated by a tranformer, which then exploded, knocking out power.
My day never recovered...
Guess I need to go back, and look at the first milling sequence, to see what I thought I was seeing...
Thanks for sharing... still blown away by where you get to work.
GeoD
Very nice indeed. Food for thought as a Master Square is quite expensive especially here in Australia. Just to have a nice reference tool like that for the small workshop would be so handy. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Was good to see you get well grounded in your task at hand...
Love watching the master at work Tom, Carn't wait for part two :) cheers mate
I'm finally buying my mini lathe tomorrow after many years of wanting it lol. I cannot wait to make some chips!
Good looking project. The welded construction is a huge benefit as making/getting a casting as base for such project is usually beyond the resources of us home gamers.
Love the new 1 2 3 blocks too. thanks for sharing. Very well done.
Beautiful work, thanks for sharing. I love your videos!
Excellent work, Tom. Many thanks.
I notice your square check indicator. I like how heavy duty it is, using a big dial drop indicator instead of the smaller interapid that I use. I will be making one soon. Thanks for the inspiration!!
Always super interesting Tom, enjoying this series I am!
I envy that bat cave of yours Tom! All those wonderful toys -the surface grinder I would die for mate. Keep the loaf coming buddy.
You do amazing work! Love the channel.
Can we get the sequel video sir? I would like to see how that finishes :)
Loving the TT sticker! Greetings from the Isle of Man :)
Outstanding project Tom.
Bill from Seattle.
Forgot about earth clamp, lots of times. I'm wondering what's happening to the printing press? Thanks Tom.
Классная работа. Почти как у ДМ! Мечики у Вас очень хорошие. Жаль у нас таких не делают. Успехов Вам!!!
Never forgot the ground clamp but have had it jump off a couple of times, frustrating as hell. Nice looking piece of tooling Tom..
Love this video, watched it a few times now.
Man Tom that was a HUGE cut on that one side edge, hell even .003" is deep on my t&p, but i'm grinding dry for the moment, gotta weld up a pvc wier tank for coolant. Got all the stuff, just lack the time.
Ps. Thanks for getting back to the vids!
With small step overs it works fine. You can take even more than that safely. Just think like a centerless grinder.
Cheers,
Tom
This is hypnotizing. Thanks for sharing!
Looks good Tom, will be interesting to see the movement after heat treat.
Good stuff! I'm really looking forward to the results of heat treat, not enough about that whole field on the net. Thanks, mate!
really love the choice to use a truss design in there.
Looking good Tom! Have you considered grinding/turning a very shallow taper on the head of a SHCS for your adjustment screws for better resolution and shock stability instead of the steep flat head angle? Thanks again for all your support!
ATB, Robin
Hey Robin. You are probably right it would be better to have a steeper angle. I built one flexure before hand and tested it to see how well it behaved. It took considerable force to move the foot and seemed controllable so I decided I would trade fastener tension for resolution in this case. The goal is to lap the feet accurately but have an adjustable back door if needed.
All the best,
Tom
robrenz.....sir...the internet isnt the same without constant videos from you..I sure wish youd either stop making videos aLL TOGETHER SO WE SO SIT AND WAIT.,.,OR MAke some videos....youre missed ir!!
I assume that the heat treat would stress relieve the block some.. Not sure of that's correct. Would it have been a good idea to heat the whole part to stress relieve before doing the rough grinding before heat treat? I like the setup for milling out the triangles.. I assume that they were mainly for looks. If going for weight I would think you could mill rectangles in the flat sides that mate the plates before welding.. I look forward to seeing this project finished. Thanks for the video..
Hi Max,
The neat thing about case hardening is you get both qualities in one part. A hard tough exterior and a soft ductile core. We will see about long term stability I guess. Easy enough to monitor. Mass and weight are you friends when it comes to stuff like this. Its the old if its heavy it must be quality and precise......
Cheers,
Tom
Chewy on the inside and crunchy on the outside like an armadillo or a dime bar! Maybe that joke only works in Europe?
Thanks, I understand the case hardening process.. I'm was curious about the project changing shape since it's manly all cold rolled steel. I know that machining will also allow the material to distort.. Guy Lautard mentioned it in one of his bedside reader books. As I understand the heat treat process. The metal is heated to a point that allows carbon to be introduced into the surface making the surface harder..Still have a can of Kasenit around here someplace. I'm thinking that at that temp any stress due to the cold rolling of the base pieces would be relieved causing the part to shift. Also the welding would create more stress in the part. I was wondering if it would have been a good idea to stress relieve the part before initial finishing and heat treat.
Oh! Nice Plexiglas pry-bar. I'm stealing that idea :)
Hah, You spotted that!
Cheers,
Tom
Good video, great advice. Note: did not realize that Shasta made a good lubricant, lol. Thank you!
enjoyed cant wait to see the finished piece
Fantastic video. Fascinating.
Do you use the file wrong at 1:50? I had this idea that you're only supposed to move the file along its length, not side to side.
Nice trick with the rubber bands!
You didn't need to flip the vice around to mill those triangles. Simply flip the part in the vice around the spindle axis and those angles are now on the Y axis as they were before.
Did a follow up video ever get made? The heat treat and final finishing?
Did you ever do the carburizing and grinding on this? I'd love to see the finished product!
How do you think the carbourised case will stand up to the movement around the flexture radius? I enjoy these experiments!
As long as it works in the elastic deformation range it should be fine. And I don't think it's supposed to go in the plastic deformation range.
We will be moving the steel in the elastic range so it will not be a problem.
I guess you will be building it close enough to only need a few microns or so adjustment on each foot
I know this is old
This was sent for heat treatment? What kind of steel was this? The base (1st part) looked like 2x2 1/4 hot rolled?
The sides might be tool steel but look like plate?
Tom, that master square is looking real good so far, It'l be interesting to see how it fare's after heat treat.
Tom, when you surface grind a big piece how does it remain perfectly consistent when the wheel is actually wearing while being used. Are there automatic compensators on the machine? I do realize it is a minute amount of wear, but it IS still wearing.
Bobby W you're only cutting with the outside leading edge, and as it breaks down you still have the rest of the way towards the center, but it will round off vs leaving a nice square edge to cut with as the wheel breaks down.
Hope this makes sense.
The edges of the wheel is what break down first. The diameter actually changes really slowly.
I've been wondering if it would be a good idea to have to wheel at an angle against the travel of the work. Any tiny imperfections on the wheel would be evened out. Of course it has to be perpendicular if you were to make some kind of profile cut on an edge.
Only the "high spot" of the wheel is contacting the surface as it moves along it. Grinding wheels are used to "machine" crankshaft journals and other precision shafts that have sufaces that aren't concentric with the centerline, but in those situations the work is rotating as well and there is a lot of coolant involved and the stone is grinding only a portion of the width of the journal. It's also done post-heat treatment and final polishing is done with emery cloth bands that are like a narrow belt sander against the journal. The other major difference is that crankshaft journals have plain bearings supporting them in the block and supporting the connecting rod and those bearings are made with steel backs but have relatively soft "babbit" surfaces in contact with the journals.
There is oil clearance built into the "joint" so the bearing "floats" on a hydrodynamic '"film" of oil and in theory the shaft never contacts the bearings. And that is pretty much true except for at startup with no oil pressure or high-load situations with insufficient oil pressure. Then there's a slight amount of wear in the first case and very short part life in the second. The bearing and journals are obviously of different materials and "self-lubricate" and are never TRULY "dry" at startup. Really high-quality bearings used in some heavy-duty diesels actually have a "depression" in the middle of the bearing so oil can "puddle" there at shutdown. Surface tension and the fact that the engine begins cooling and the oil thickens immediately after shutdown help keep oil in bearings as well.
I can't say that I've ever seen a flat and straight surface ground for precision and it seems counter-intuitive to me since a grinding stone is going to leave a rougher surface finish and scratches that are small "ditches" with some of the material "dug" out of them sticking up around the edges. I'm not a machinist but I've been turning wrenches for a long time as a professinal diesel mechanic for 25+ years and I've done some "minor" machine work and a lot of fabrication and surface prep and I know a lot of machinists and have pretty extensive experience in every diesel industry except marine. I've also done a lot of automotive work and I'm a "gun nut", so I'm pretty familiar with most things that are machined to precise tolerances.
And I've used a lot of precision instruments and standards and learned "the old fashioned" way how to dress grinding stones, sharpen drill bits, properly use files and hacksaws, etc. I've gotta say to me this looks like one hell of a lot of work and time and material put into something you can't make without having the commercial tools and standards and gauges to make sure its right. The only way to get them is to buy, rent, borrow or steal them. That's the case with all quality tools that "DIY" guys use to make their own "made it myself" tools that are usually made because its "cheaper". Well, it may be "cheaper" but if "cheaper" is in part due to borrowing or renting or stealing a tool from someone else, the only one paying for your tool in its entirety is still you.
And if its a purchase to keep or rental then the owner and everybody "upstream" of you and that owner benefit from the hard work and effort and skill and investment other people put into the tool and they've been compensated in some way. But if its a tool borrowed from someone under the guise of "personal use" to make or fix something to keep and use or to repair or make something for someone else "gratis" and offers to compensate the lender anyway are refused, that's also a "pay it forward" situation.
But buying a tool to use and then returning it for a refund in my book is stealing and stealing is stealing and if its to make a "DIY" tool to then use to produce MORE "commercial" tools for sale or trade, that's stealing and fraud. No matter what nobody is ever a TRUE "DIYer" unless the "project" is "living off the land" and that project is started by leaving all your current commercially manufactured possessions behind and starting out bare-assed naked from scratch.
Like I said, I'm no machinists but I damn sure have used lots of quality tools and I know that you can make any standard really quickly and pretty easily from plain stock if you have quality machine tools and gauges and very basic materials to start with. Standards for checking micrometers 1-2" and larger are just precisely machined and lapped pieces of round stock that aren't going to grow or shrink providing you keep them and use them in the same environment in which you made them and machinist squares and straightedges are typically mild steel stock milled and lapped to be straight and perpendicular and flat. Most parts in even the best and most expensive heavy-duty diesel engines don't have tolerances tighter than .0001" and even then its going to be several ten thousandths on top of a thousandth with a +/- of a few more ten thousandths.
I think the main reason we even seen ten thousandths in machines and areas easily accessible with ordinary tools and where the same fundamentals and processes apply whether its a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton or a 500-hp Caterpillar, is specifically to keep amateurs - mechanics AND machinists AND "remanufacturers - with cheap tools and/or no clue what they're doing from destroying parts and engines and potentially lives by using "good enough" techniques and processes and tools to "repair" or "rebuild" or "remanufacturer" machines where in operation it really DOES matter.
It might seem like anybody who doesn't have the experience and skill and tools to do a job properly and is taking a shot at it anyway to "make" or "save" money doing it for themselves or someone else wouldn't be hesitant to work on an engine or other component or machine where the tolerances and clearances go to .0001" instead of just .001", but that extra decimal point requires vernier-scale micrometer to accurately measure and even though there are el-cheapo micrometers all over these days and "budget" tools aren't something new, vernier micrometers are typically the "too expensive" brands and ELECTRONIC CALIPERS, which are VERY commonly and incorrectly used AS a "micrometer" do NOT go to .0001". Even if they measure to .0005", that's not .0001".
And the thing about DIYers looking to "save" or "make" money is that just like there's always that point where SOMEONE ELSE'S TIME AND EFFORT AND SKILL is "too expensive", there's a point where they realize that their OWN TIME AND EFFORT AND SKILL could get REALLY expensive. Especially if they're "DIY" project is owned by someone else who is ALSO "frugal" and doesn't want to pay professionals for their time and expertise and tools and probably isn't going to want to pay for even a "cheap" job twice. Much less pay for a NEW or REBUILT component or machine or part when the "mechanic" or "machinist" who took on the original job "dropped the ball" and the results was what a service manager I used to work with (RIP Andy) called "fuckage".
Overall, what I see here with all the fancy and unnecessary machine work on what is really just a piece of square tubing with some plate welded onto it when the tubing itself if good enough for the "foundation" could have simply been milled flat and square and true itself as evidenced by the commercially-made example, is someone trying to put a lot of "value" into something that they know they're not going to get back out of and that is costing them a lot of extra time and money to make and that they're also going to end up paying someone else to "manufacturer" at least in part when they have it heat-treated.
I'm not sure WHY you'd want a precision standard that would be very easily broken or chipped if dropped or struck with something harder than it accidentally while being used or when left unattended on a bench or table (the small portable toolboxes a lot of machinists use to store gauges and standards and other delicate, fragile and expensive tools and that are usually Kennedy and brown in color in contrast to red for regular toolboxes so "visitors" don't raid them and thieves overlook them) are small and portable so they go with the tools to the work area or the work is brought to them. And the bench or table they're on is usually on along a wall out of harms way and even then the tools are put back as soon as they're no longer needed.
That's so they don't get left lying around where they're easily "lost" or damaged by some "visitor" seeing a new and unusual and NEAT tool to "inspect". Anything with a DIAL and a PLUNGER to make the needle move is a MAGNET for "visitors" to be drawn to and amuse and distract themselves with while a mechanic or machinist is working and they're "helping" or just "watching". And just like a shiny new toy to play with gets old quickly for a child when it turns out to not do anything that special despite outward appearances and children rarely put "toys" back where they got them, its very easy for a "visitor" to set the new toy aside when he finally has the mechanic's or machinist's attention, OR never notice them at all if he's in "pay attention to me mode" from the get-go and happens to catch the mechanic or machinist when he's "not busy" and knock them over or shove them out of the way with or for his own convenience when he needs a spot to put himself or something he's brought in to have worked on and one or both have to be FRONT AND CENTER and TAKEN CARE OF IMMEDIATELY OR SOONER IF POSSIBLE.
Even then, shit happens and tools and gauges and standards get used and damaged or just plain wear out. GAUGES are very OFTEN hardened and polished on their anvils or contacts or jaws where they frequently contact HARD and possible sharp or gritty parts (that shouldn't happen but again, shit happens) and are moved on the part to get an accurate and precise measurement in one or more locations. But STANDARDS should be "soft" to save wear on the gauges and for toughness.
I'm not sure I'm following you. Could you go into a little more detail? Don't leave anything out.
Man, I just started building the 123 block, now you are showing something else?! Great video as always though.
Can you elaborate on your choice to use 4 flexures instead of three? I know you can get something to sit on four points but it's much easier to use three, no? Also, caught the lexan pinch bar for the mag chuck ... NICE! Thanks for the video.
For squarish bases four points is more stable. The Hermann Schmidt has four lapped feet on it for this reason. Its over constrained but more stable in this situation. Three flexures would have been awkward with this design so I opted for symmetry. Cheers,
Tom
Great project Tom. Matt C.
Was their ever a follow up video of this after the heat treatment or did it not survive the process
Very nice video. Congratulations !
Tom, you should have age (old) the part after welding. It can be distorted, bent with time. Aging can be speed up by placing in fire, and then slow cool down
Another great video. What is your clean up after using the NOGA Cool Mist? I have a mill about identical to yours except it says EISON and I am concerned with rust under the vise after using the Cool Mist. Do you dismount your vise to clean after using the mister either on your mill or surface grinder?
Shop vac. The surface under the mag chuck is prepared and protected prior to mounting the chuck. Once you have the mag chuck trued up you generally leave it as long as possible.
oxtoolco how do you prep the surface under the chuck so it won't rust? I just got a surface grinder and am wondering what will I find under there. Not sure if I'll take it off yet, waiting to hook it up and see how flat it is first.
Unusual method of construction. Many variables added to the long term stability equation. I guess the proof will be in the eating
why do they use that vertical saw thing. is that like the big guns for milling flatness?
with the grinding wheel, do you notice the wear across a surface like the side of that object?
Isosceles triangle? Weren't those equilateral triangles? Or did it just look that way?
I think you got me on that one. Equal sides and equal angles. Thanks for keeping me honest.
Cheers,
Tom
Equilateral triangles are also isosceles triangles.
Circles are not ellipses and squares are not rectangles, regardless of what grade-school teachers tell children just wrapping their heads around basic math are taught to "simplify" geometry. And although I've heard the "squares are rectangles" spiel and its at least somewhat "legitimate" IF you stay at the "elementary" definitions, I've never heard the "circles are ellipses" bit before and probably because it's obviously a lie. That's not to say its not in a lot of math "textbooks", but its false. Period.
FIrst of all square vs. rectangle and then I'll dispense with the "circles are ellipses" garbage, although the reason neither squares are rectangles or circles are ellipses is the same in both cases and should be obvious and is obvious to people that learned geometry beyond an elementary "keep it simple" level. A RECTANGLE is a quadrilateral with two pairs of sides of different lengths perpendicular to each other and if one interior angle is a right angle they all are and its QUADRANGLE.
Two measurements are required to calculate its area and its circumference and a third is required to calculate the volume of a box formed out of two rectangles by adding 4 vertical planes of the same lengths and widths. To calculate its volume you still need to measure the length and width of the rectangle and multiple the area by the height of that box. You have to measure that height because until you do, its not possible to know it precisely. So determining VOLUME of a box formed from rectangles requires THREE measurements and two calculations. L x W = A and A x H = V. That makes it a COMPLEX shape and "complex math" is required to determine the simple quantities of that shape and the object it forms when made three dimensional.
A square is a also QUADRANGLE but its also a QUADRILATERAL and therefore it is NOT a rectangle. If it were it wouldn't be SQUARE and the box it forms when additional planes that have the same length and width are added to it in order to form a "box" wouldn't be a CUBE. There is a DIFFERENCE to go with the DISTINCTION. The word SQUARE refers not just to the equal lengths of the sides but the ability to calculate the area by SQUARING the length of a single side so only a single measurement and a single calculation is required. Its circumference is also calculated using that same single measurement.
Measure one side and SQUARE that measurement and you know the area. Its a QUADRILATERAL rather than just a QUADRANGLE SIMPLE MATH for SIMPLE SHAPES. A CUBE is a CUBE because its VOLUME can be calculated with a single measurement and a single calculation by CUBING the length of one side. A square is a REGULAR geometric shape and a SIMPLE shape that can be SIMPLY measured with even a piece of string cut to the length of one side. If the string then matches any other perpendicular line's length, the object is a square or a cube. If the string is placed on each corner and an arc is swung through the square and the points of the four arcs intersect and form another square, the square IS "square" and its an equilateral quadrangle. Meaning its SQUARE.Another piece of string stretched from corner to corner can be cut and with those two pieces of string you can construct identical new squares with precisely the same dimensions and use them to check the "squareness" of other shapes that appear identical.
The square is the SIMPLEST geometric shape and that's why its is taught FIRST and any reference to it as a "rectangle" only comes later when the DIFFERENCE between the two is taught and "if we take a square and make either pair of sides LONGER it becomes a RECTANGLE" is used to expand on the basics and move to a more COMPLEX concept and SHAPE. That gets translated as "a square is a rectangle" INCORRECTLY because the statement is that if a square has one pair of sides lengthened it BECOMES a rectangle. If one thing becomes something else with a different name and different qualities and its more complex, its NOT THE SAME THING. So a square is NOT a rectangle. EACH SHAPE has its OWN NAME because they are DIFFERENT.
A CIRCLE is also a REGULAR and SIMPLE shape with a constant radius and using simple math the area is easily calculated from one measurement using a single operation. Its radius can be calculated from its diameter and vice versa ALSO with a single measurement and calculation. Using EITHER value its AREA and CIRCUMFERENCE can also be calculated using one measurement and a single operation. By that point in a geometry lesson after squares and retangles and cubes and boxes and probably triangles and pyramids and acute and obtuse angles have been digested and understood, PI is relatively simple and since some people are fraction people and some decimal people, between 22/7 and 3.14, one or the other should stick.
By teaching AREA first, the good old SQUARE comes back into play and that's a relief for kids wondering how in the hell you measure the area of something that has no sides. PI multiplied by the radius SQUARED. Easily comprehended or at least remembered if the teacher is smart enough to tell them to see the CIRCLE as a SIMPLE SHAPE and to measure the RADIUS and use it to check to see that its actually a CIRCLE if the RADIUS is the same at two points on the outer arc with straight lines to them forming a RIGHT ANGLE at their intersection. If so, then the two diameters those radii are half of will form four equal PIE PIECES. So by measuring the radius and SQUARING IT and multiplying it by PI, the area is calculated.
Circumference also seems like mission impossible but by taking the diameter because you're going AROUND THE WHOLE CIRCLE and multiplying THAT by PI a SINGLE measurement and calculation gives the circumference as well. And at that point, they whole volume thing is old hat and its a SIMPLE and REGULAR shape so AREA x HEIGHT gives the volume of a CYLINDER.
The "circles are ellipses" thing probably comes from "if we take a circle and "flatten it" or "stretch it" it becomes an ellipse". But just like a square is not a rectangle, a CIRCLE is NOT an "ellipse". The same thing applies that if a CIRCLE becomes an ELLIPSE it CEASES being a CIRCLE. SOME people make that mental leap on their own and some teachers MAKE them make that leap because its IMPORTANT and some people and teachers just leave well enough alone and before long, COMPLETE LIES become "facts".
DEEREMEYER1 an ellipse is not a circle, but a circle *is* an ellipse. Look up the definition for ellipse and see what happens when focus 1 is in the same location as focus 2.
To be even more general, circles, ellipses, parabolas, and hyperbolas are all cone sections.
Similarly, a square *is* a special case of rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Without getting too deep into the presidential definition of what "is" is, the word is not generally used in a way that implies transitiveness. In other words, when you say "a circle is an ellipse", you're saying that the circle is part of the set of all ellipses (which it is). You are not saying that all ellipses are also circles, or "circle = ellipse".
DEEREMEYER1 Rectangle comes from the Latin rectus, meaning right. A rectangle is a closed planar shape containing 4 right angles. That is literally where its name comes from. All squares are rectangles.
Why don't grinders always grind a slightly uphill slant as you feed the workpiece across the wheel (not the back and forth horizontal, but the steady motion perpendicular to the repetitive horizontal axis)? Doesn't the wheel wear away and effectively become further from the surface the longer it is used?
That poor acid brush!
Me too Acid Brush, me too.
Out of curiosity, why did you mill the slot for the feet rather than slitting it?
Hey! Yer draggin that file backwards again lol. Thanks for the vid Tom. Im on the lookout for a surface grinder!
Good video, Mr. Ox.
Silly question or maybe its obvious but what is that white material the sparks are hitting on your surface grinder? I assume its to stop the sparks from going further and to get them to drop down but it looks like material of some sort but it isn't getting burnt by the sparks.
I really enjoy your videos a? if I may, What material is your welding mask? shield? made of?
Treated fiber paper stuff. Old school Huntsman hood.
Thank you for the response, I was thinking some sort of composition, or perhaps even leather. It looks cool, and light.
How's the square's stability so far? Any measurable changes?
Never made a part 2? Did heat treat really mess it up?
You been to IOM TT? Sticker on weld helmet. You do. Anything with motorbikes?
Nice one. A follow up, anytime soon?
that round cylinder square looks a lot like one of mine that I made on the lathe. pretty handy using a black granite tile I got at home depot was flat' latest sweep not so much. there's still a corner that leads to the middle but hey found my squarest square demonstrate some fleemarket find squares for bet you'll find some old rusty one's that'll blow your mind thanks tom got one of those huntsman mig welders just love that helmet always be my favorite
hey Tom,
is there anything that speaks against drilling the holes and other miscellaneous machining after the welding instead of before as you did? the webbing makes total sense but i would tend to think that the calibration holes would be something that could wait until the coarse grinding was completed
cheers
mike
Lots of ways to skin cats. You could do it the way you suggested on your square.
Cheers,
Tom
That looks great, and I wish I had a surface grinder in my personal shop. A couple of questions: why four feet and a flexure on each? Won't that make it over-constrained?
Yes it is over constrained. Its also more stable when you have a squarish base. I opted for symmetry and stability in this case.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, will you be able to include any footage of the heat treatment process for this Master Square.
Mark Fryer I second this though. I'd love to see how they treat such a large item.
3:17 - noob question, what in that picture is the 'sidebar' please? Thanks! :)
Hi Wireline. "Sine Bar". This is the plate/bar clamped in the vise to help me measure and set a precise angle. Cheers. Tom
oxtoolco Shouldn't the second pivot on the sine bar be resting against the the same jaw face as the gauge blocks? [edit] Never mind. . . Viewing error on my part. The tiny amount it obstructs the view of the vice, it appears to be resting on the end as others have observed.
Ahh ok thanks!
Curious as to why you give the grinder wheel a spin before powering it up.
Its a wussy soft start of sorts. Just old habit. Probably does not make a lick of difference but I probably got yelled at at some point for not doing it.......
Looking good so far. I bet you get it to 1 millionth or some other almost unobtainable accuracy. Ahl be baak for the next part. (I am still an Arnold fan).
You got to separate Arnold the man from Arnold the actor, two different people.
Tom, just watched the video again and have a further question / observation about you using the Sine Bar. I take it that you were just using it to clock along and NOT to set an accurate angle. You had one roller touching the Gauge Blocks against the fixed jaw of the vice, but you had the other roller of the Sine Bar hanging off the end of the vice, therefore voiding any accurate setup by not using the 5 inch centers of the rollers. Or have I missed something I do not know about using a sine bar. I have always understood and used the bottom of the 2 rollers, the calculations of the roller centers and Slip Gauges to obtain the angle you need.
Hi Dave, You need to clean your glasses and slide up a little closer to the screen. The real roll is in contact with the vice jaw.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, thanks for the reply, I have put on reading glasses and zoomed in on the shot. Somehow it must either be the camera angle / reflection / optical illusion or lighting as it still looks as though the left hand roller is hanging off the vice and the Sine Bar body is touching the fixed jaw. Anyway you say all is fine so I will believe you this time around.
Tom, when does wheel degradation become and issue when grinding? I understand that the type of wheel and material have a lot to do with it, but if your taking large passes and wanted precision, how do you account for wheel degradation?
See comment above. The edges break down first and the diameter lasts a long time.
So! How's the square holding up? Is anything moving? I hope not! *fingers crossed*
Tom where do you get your heat treatment done ? I have some small iron surface plates I want to have stabilized. Cast local here in California to.
In the shot at 27:40 you can see that the back wall (right of frame) got warped by that long vertical weld. The tacks must not have been strong enough
What you are seeing is the internal resistance weld from the tubing manufacture.
Cheers,
Tom
I enjoy your videos. A suggestion for a name, Slide Form, or Tap Form, kinda obvious but simple and easy to live with.
Could you have made some lighting cuts on the sides of the tube that have the plates added? I see the benefits of grinding those sides flat, but it seems to me that leaving only a few "bars" of material across the face and ribs along the sides for welding would be sufficient and there would be more weight removed. Interesting project anyway.
How stable is structural tubing for a master square? Or will it be stress relived and normalized in heat treat?
Dying to know what happened during heat treatment, is there a part 2??
Has not been heat treated yet. Part 2 coming soon. Cheers. Tom
Cool!! It's a great project and I'm curious to see how it may move about. I may add this to my project pile to do about 5 years after I retire lol
Whoa are you welding on 1.5" ground stock plate?!! You get to play with all of the toys
Hi Kenny. Its actually two inches thick. I had the rough stock plate of my welding table blanchard ground. It was actually pretty cheap at $500 and free delivery. Cheers. Tom
Which material did you use for this project. Apologies if you said and I missed it
Thanks for the video Tom, very informative. What's the fabric hanging on the spark guard of your surface grinder made of?
Its actually a sheet of white paper so I can see the gap between the wheel and the work more easily.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom, makes a lot of sense. It also seems to take some of the impact of the grindings and drop them into the trough.
first comment! thanks Tom, really appreciate the opportunity to learn that these videos present.
Hey Emma,
Thanks for stopping by!
All the best,
Tom
As always a great video with lots for me to learn. Thanks. I do have one question, what is the purpose of the cloth hanging on the end of the surface grinder?
Gilberto Diaz Castro i believe it’s a wet cloth to help catch the grinding dust and grit. it keeps some of the mess down that is surface grinding!! fun but messy.
Tom Lipton and Stefan Gotteswinter star in: "The World's Most Accurate Fidget Spinner Showdown"! No plans, just mano-a-mano for run-out and rotation time. What a showdown that would be!
Poncho likes bacon With robrenz quietly smiling in the background for some reason…
If Robin wants to join in it's open to all comers. This Old Tony, Mr. Crispin, Joe Pie, let's have a pissing contest!
Excellent video Tom! Are you going to share how much it moved around after carburization?
Hi Dan,
Yes there will be anther video showing the finish grinding after heat treat.
Cheers,
Tom