Awesome job picking and thanks for having the balls to show us what's inside. I got one given to me last week without a key. So I was wondering if I picked it and try and reset it with a key I have and it worked. I am now a subscriber. : )
Thanks for your sub, and the kind words, Robert! If you get stuck putting it back together, I made a newer video about the changes Kwikset has introduced that shows much more clearly how to re-key the lock without the keying cradle. I was really figuring it out as I went on this video, so it's poorly explained at best.
Hi tumbl3r, this is a great demo, and between watching you SPPing and bosnianbill raking it open, I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get any pins to bind in mine at all... so I took it apart, and it turns out mine (that I just bought today) is different from yours, and apparently improved. On mine, the sidebar is held in by two springs on either end pushing it inward and into the gates when they align (wish I could upload a picture here)... I think the wafers themselves push it back out when the key is removed and slides them to the wrong places as it pulls out. The problem then is if you put rotation tension on the core the sidebar binds against the recess in the sleeve and can't fall into the gates, thus nothing binds or grinds or anything. So I thought I had figured out the answer -- since the same alignment that drops the sidebar *also* aligns the lower "gates" that let the rekeying assembly (I suppose that's what it's called) slide over the dogs between the wafers (which is what keeps the rekey tool from working without the key inserted), maybe I could use the rekey tool to put linear tension on that slider and get the wafers to bind against those dogs and get my sets that way (hope my terminology is right). I tested, and as long as the key is in, the slide will move regardless of whether it's at the 90 degree spot (it has a spring that holds it for you if it's in that spot, but that's the only significance to the 90 degree postion), so you can simply put in the key, put in the tool and hold it in while you pull out the old key and put in a new key (without any turning at all) and you're rekeyed just fine. I figured if I got a pick that way, the assembly would slide to the rekey position and I could just put in whatever Kwikset key I had handy, and whammo. Sadly, if you put pressure on the slide before you put the key in, the sidebar binds up against the end of the sleeve recess slot it sits in, so it won't bind the wafers against the dogs, and still no joy... I honestly can't logic out a way to get this thing open without a key... Any chance you could take a look at a newer one and tell me I'm wrong? Got mine at HomeDepot today, is model #985 3 SMT CP K4, double-keyed deadbolt. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
Hey Chad, This sounds like a really substantial and dramatic departure in the design. I think your explanation was good, although I admit that I'm still having a bit of trouble visualizing the changes. I can pick one up and look into it at the beginning of September (my wife will kill me if I buy any more locks this month); or, if you like, you can send me yours and I will promise to send it back to you. If that's the way you want to go, shoot me a PM. If not, I completely understand... It's never a good idea to simply trust strangers on the internet :) It sounds like some really interesting changes. Thanks for the great comment and info!
Great picking. I have one of these and have not yet managed to pick it open. I like the way you take us along on the exciting journey of exploring the inside and trying to understand what we see. Thanks a lot - great pleasure to watch :-)
Thanks man! I was really uncertain about what I'd find in that thing... At first I thought I'd try to figure it all out while narrating, but then just kinda gave up. I don't think I completely understood how the things work until was putting it back together. Cheers, my friend :)
wicked bud! love that! wanted to see the inside of one of them for a while now so cheers, great work for having the balls to gut it, it looks fairly intimidating on first glance but makes sense after a min or two.... and very nice picking too! thanks man
Thanks man! I was really nervous taking that thing apart because I really had no idea what I was going to see. After studying it for a bit and finally getting it back together it makes sense. The little carriage that caries the wafers and sidebar slides backwards when the change tool is inserted. This disengages the serrations on the wafers from the little shelf on the keypins(?). Keeping the carriage pressed back, you can insert another key, slide the assembly forward fully, and the serrations re-engage with the new shelf levels and the lock is rekeyed. Pretty clever system, really. Too bad it is so easily broken and bypassed. Edit: had forward and backward reversed :)
I did have to contend with the sidebar, but in this generation of the lock, the sidebar was sprung outwards, meaning I didn't have to apply artificial pressure on it. SImply by tensioning the lock, the sidebar bound with the wafers. In subsequent variations of this loc, they have used a "reverse sidebar", and idea the got from a much older GM car lock. Anyhow, on that one you need to shim the sidebar to put artificial tension onto it. If you are interested in digging more into this, check out my "Design Changes to the Kwikset SmartKey" video.
I love your video..... I'm a big fan of SSP and this lock was really givin me trouble it's nice to know what's inside.....it would be nice if you could say how much your tensioning or if your doing anything different to beat serrated waffers
Thank you for your kind words and thoughts. In recent videos, I have been making an effort to explain things a bit more as I am picking. With this lock, I used fairly light tension, and the typical sidebar lock technique which is to "jiggle test" the pins / wafers. If you move them up into a false gate, they will bind solidly under moderate tension, which tells you they are not done yet. When they are loose, but only move slightly, you know the bar is in the true gate.
+tumbl3r Thanks so much for the tip! It took a little while to understand but I successfully picked it with full control the other day (haha although I'm not gonna say how long it took).... anyway yet again great video (by far one of the most helpful!) and thanks for responding!
AnonymousFox My pleasure man! I'm stoked for you that you were able to get it opened with SPP! That "jiggle test" is really the most important skill to develop when working with sidebar locks. Each one has their own unique personality and feel, but I have used essentially the same technique on Medeco, ASSA Twin, this SmartKey and to a lesser degree on Schlage Primus. I think any time spent learning it and refining it is a really good investment. Again, thanks for the update, and congratulations! Great work man!
+tumbl3r +tumbl3r Thanks so much! Wow that's amazing?! Do you do this just for sport?....Well once I realized the correct gates are wider then the serrations and allows wiggle room I could tell the difference between picked and non picked pins...I don't mean to keep bothering you but honestly the biggest issue is trying to pick other pins without all the the others falling down. I use a fairly firm tension wrench should I use one with more flexibility or is it all in technique?
I pick locks totally for fun and as a hobby. I started about 20 years ago when I was in college. I noticed one tiny detail to clarify... It would be a disservice not to mention it. What allows the wafers to wiggle is not the fact that the true gates are wider, but rather that they are deeper. Under moderate tension the back of the false gates get pressed into the sidebar, locking them up. Not so when they are in the true gates because they can only bottom out when the entire sidebar retracts. Does this make sense? I know it took me awhile to get my head entirely around. But onto your question: Just like pin tumblers, sidebar fingers (wafers in this case) have a binding order. It is usually quite a lot more subtle than pins, but it is there. When picked in the correct order, they will stay set, even as you set others. There is no real way to determine this binding order without some analytics, followed by trial and error. Feeling for the one that binds tightest is a good indication, but not always enough to conclusively prove that IT is the next pin to pick. Sometimes, as with Schlage Primus, the binding order of the sidebar fingers is variable depending on their rotational angle... it can be maddening! Analytics: Once you click a wafer into position, put moderate tension on the core and jiggle test it. If it jiggles, back WAY off on the tension and start tapping the others until you find one that binds slightly. This is a pretty good indication that this pins is the next one to work on. If none of the others bind, increase tension and repeat. Continue increasing tension gradually until you find a binder. Set it, jiggle test it, and repeat. Trial and error: If you get a bunch of pins set and jiggling, and end up dropping one, remember that this is the lock leaking information that you can use. Go back and find which one dropped and add it to your mental map. Remember that this pin will likely be among the last you will work on. Sometimes you will even need to intentionally drop them to see which pins drop and in which order. I didn't find any of this careful analytics and trial / error necessary for my SmartKey, but every lock is different and you may have one with tighter tolerances. I certainly have to use both of these strategies on ASSA Twin locks. Finally, as for tools. I prefer a ridged, flat tension bar, as I feel like it gives me the best feedback. The VAST majority of my feedback comes from the tension tool, so the less flexible it is the better. This is personal preference, however. Many very talented pickers absolutely LOVE springy tension tools. I guess the answer is that it's all technique. Any truly difficult lock will require not just light, moderate or heavy tension, but a variety of tensions applied at different phases of picking. Hopefully the tips under "Analytics" will help explain what tensions to use and when. I'm really excited that you are diving into high security locks and learning the techniques to pick them! To me at least, these are the most exciting locks to pick and work on. I'm here to help if have other questions or if something is unclear.
Drew Dman you are not alone. I too have spent countless hours screwing with this cylinder without any luck. Single pin, rakes, EPG, but nothing to show for it but a bunch of false sets and no matter how gently you ease off pressure on the tension wrench it causes every single one of the pins to reset. I'm starting to doubt myself and get desperate because I just can't allow a quickset to beat me. I simply cannot go out like that which is why I'm on UA-cam now looking at videos because there's got to be something I'm missing here
@@richard102879 i cant seem to pick any of these locks. I sit and mess with different cylenders when watching netflix and feel like a fish trying to swim up a river but keep running into a damn. False set for days
It's a 0.040 Peterson Prybar. Pretty much all of my tools are from Peterson. They are a little more expensive than some of the other options, but I feel like the quality is worth it.
cant say i know of any bypass methods for smartkeys..what have u heard...i got one of those qtactical smartkey decoders but thats all i have ever heard of as bypass for these
I guess it's not so much of a bypass, as it is a force. If you put a key shaped item in the key and turn it hard, it will open the lock, leaving it still functional with the original key in most cases. Interestingly, Kwikset seems to have addressed this in their most recent design.
ah the dumbkey force tool...oryou can make one...or you can take a kw1 key cut at a 3 or bitting and break it off at the 3rdor 4th pin and use a screwdriveer to turn it
![[109] Lock Picking Rapid Entry Techniques (Standard Pins)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IzWfNejwVVY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[290] Dual Core Kwikset SmartKey Cylinder Picked (x2) and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ooq7FlSVlPw/mqdefault.jpg)
Great picking! And much respect for getting right to the point!
Awesome job picking and thanks for having the balls to show us what's inside. I got one given to me last week without a key. So I was wondering if I picked it and try and reset it with a key I have and it worked. I am now a subscriber. : )
Thanks for your sub, and the kind words, Robert! If you get stuck putting it back together, I made a newer video about the changes Kwikset has introduced that shows much more clearly how to re-key the lock without the keying cradle. I was really figuring it out as I went on this video, so it's poorly explained at best.
Hi tumbl3r, this is a great demo, and between watching you SPPing and bosnianbill raking it open, I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get any pins to bind in mine at all... so I took it apart, and it turns out mine (that I just bought today) is different from yours, and apparently improved. On mine, the sidebar is held in by two springs on either end pushing it inward and into the gates when they align (wish I could upload a picture here)... I think the wafers themselves push it back out when the key is removed and slides them to the wrong places as it pulls out. The problem then is if you put rotation tension on the core the sidebar binds against the recess in the sleeve and can't fall into the gates, thus nothing binds or grinds or anything.
So I thought I had figured out the answer -- since the same alignment that drops the sidebar *also* aligns the lower "gates" that let the rekeying assembly (I suppose that's what it's called) slide over the dogs between the wafers (which is what keeps the rekey tool from working without the key inserted), maybe I could use the rekey tool to put linear tension on that slider and get the wafers to bind against those dogs and get my sets that way (hope my terminology is right). I tested, and as long as the key is in, the slide will move regardless of whether it's at the 90 degree spot (it has a spring that holds it for you if it's in that spot, but that's the only significance to the 90 degree postion), so you can simply put in the key, put in the tool and hold it in while you pull out the old key and put in a new key (without any turning at all) and you're rekeyed just fine. I figured if I got a pick that way, the assembly would slide to the rekey position and I could just put in whatever Kwikset key I had handy, and whammo. Sadly, if you put pressure on the slide before you put the key in, the sidebar binds up against the end of the sleeve recess slot it sits in, so it won't bind the wafers against the dogs, and still no joy...
I honestly can't logic out a way to get this thing open without a key... Any chance you could take a look at a newer one and tell me I'm wrong? Got mine at HomeDepot today, is model #985 3 SMT CP K4, double-keyed deadbolt.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
Hey Chad, This sounds like a really substantial and dramatic departure in the design. I think your explanation was good, although I admit that I'm still having a bit of trouble visualizing the changes. I can pick one up and look into it at the beginning of September (my wife will kill me if I buy any more locks this month); or, if you like, you can send me yours and I will promise to send it back to you. If that's the way you want to go, shoot me a PM. If not, I completely understand... It's never a good idea to simply trust strangers on the internet :)
It sounds like some really interesting changes. Thanks for the great comment and info!
Great picking. I have one of these and have not yet managed to pick it open. I like the way you take us along on the exciting journey of exploring the inside and trying to understand what we see. Thanks a lot - great pleasure to watch :-)
Thanks man! I was really uncertain about what I'd find in that thing... At first I thought I'd try to figure it all out while narrating, but then just kinda gave up. I don't think I completely understood how the things work until was putting it back together. Cheers, my friend :)
Just some polite upload critique. While you pick, I'd enjoy hearing the feedback on the locks feedback. Thanks
Fantastic Picking & Video. Keep up the great work. Nick.
wicked bud! love that! wanted to see the inside of one of them for a while now so cheers, great work for having the balls to gut it, it looks fairly intimidating on first glance but makes sense after a min or two.... and very nice picking too! thanks man
Thanks man! I was really nervous taking that thing apart because I really had no idea what I was going to see. After studying it for a bit and finally getting it back together it makes sense. The little carriage that caries the wafers and sidebar slides backwards when the change tool is inserted. This disengages the serrations on the wafers from the little shelf on the keypins(?). Keeping the carriage pressed back, you can insert another key, slide the assembly forward fully, and the serrations re-engage with the new shelf levels and the lock is rekeyed. Pretty clever system, really. Too bad it is so easily broken and bypassed.
Edit: had forward and backward reversed :)
Excellent video. Thank you. So my question is, how come you didn't have to address the sidebar at all.
I did have to contend with the sidebar, but in this generation of the lock, the sidebar was sprung outwards, meaning I didn't have to apply artificial pressure on it. SImply by tensioning the lock, the sidebar bound with the wafers. In subsequent variations of this loc, they have used a "reverse sidebar", and idea the got from a much older GM car lock. Anyhow, on that one you need to shim the sidebar to put artificial tension onto it. If you are interested in digging more into this, check out my "Design Changes to the Kwikset SmartKey" video.
@@tumbl3r Thank you. As always, a wealth of knowledge. We appreciate the time you put in for us.
Yes nice picking. Now re-key it Then pick it. That is what i han't seen ppl do yet. Try picking it after it is rekeyed.... Great job
Nice video. Excellent picking.
Why is your tension wrench up at the top where your pins are
I love your video..... I'm a big fan of SSP and this lock was really givin me trouble it's nice to know what's inside.....it would be nice if you could say how much your tensioning or if your doing anything different to beat serrated waffers
Thank you for your kind words and thoughts. In recent videos, I have been making an effort to explain things a bit more as I am picking. With this lock, I used fairly light tension, and the typical sidebar lock technique which is to "jiggle test" the pins / wafers. If you move them up into a false gate, they will bind solidly under moderate tension, which tells you they are not done yet. When they are loose, but only move slightly, you know the bar is in the true gate.
+tumbl3r Thanks so much for the tip! It took a little while to understand but I successfully picked it with full control the other day (haha although I'm not gonna say how long it took).... anyway yet again great video (by far one of the most helpful!) and thanks for responding!
AnonymousFox My pleasure man! I'm stoked for you that you were able to get it opened with SPP! That "jiggle test" is really the most important skill to develop when working with sidebar locks. Each one has their own unique personality and feel, but I have used essentially the same technique on Medeco, ASSA Twin, this SmartKey and to a lesser degree on Schlage Primus. I think any time spent learning it and refining it is a really good investment. Again, thanks for the update, and congratulations! Great work man!
+tumbl3r +tumbl3r Thanks so much! Wow that's amazing?! Do you do this just for sport?....Well once I realized the correct gates are wider then the serrations and allows wiggle room I could tell the difference between picked and non picked pins...I don't mean to keep bothering you but honestly the biggest issue is trying to pick other pins without all the the others falling down. I use a fairly firm tension wrench should I use one with more flexibility or is it all in technique?
I pick locks totally for fun and as a hobby. I started about 20 years ago when I was in college.
I noticed one tiny detail to clarify... It would be a disservice not to mention it. What allows the wafers to wiggle is not the fact that the true gates are wider, but rather that they are deeper. Under moderate tension the back of the false gates get pressed into the sidebar, locking them up. Not so when they are in the true gates because they can only bottom out when the entire sidebar retracts. Does this make sense? I know it took me awhile to get my head entirely around.
But onto your question: Just like pin tumblers, sidebar fingers (wafers in this case) have a binding order. It is usually quite a lot more subtle than pins, but it is there. When picked in the correct order, they will stay set, even as you set others. There is no real way to determine this binding order without some analytics, followed by trial and error. Feeling for the one that binds tightest is a good indication, but not always enough to conclusively prove that IT is the next pin to pick. Sometimes, as with Schlage Primus, the binding order of the sidebar fingers is variable depending on their rotational angle... it can be maddening!
Analytics: Once you click a wafer into position, put moderate tension on the core and jiggle test it. If it jiggles, back WAY off on the tension and start tapping the others until you find one that binds slightly. This is a pretty good indication that this pins is the next one to work on. If none of the others bind, increase tension and repeat. Continue increasing tension gradually until you find a binder. Set it, jiggle test it, and repeat.
Trial and error: If you get a bunch of pins set and jiggling, and end up dropping one, remember that this is the lock leaking information that you can use. Go back and find which one dropped and add it to your mental map. Remember that this pin will likely be among the last you will work on. Sometimes you will even need to intentionally drop them to see which pins drop and in which order. I didn't find any of this careful analytics and trial / error necessary for my SmartKey, but every lock is different and you may have one with tighter tolerances. I certainly have to use both of these strategies on ASSA Twin locks.
Finally, as for tools. I prefer a ridged, flat tension bar, as I feel like it gives me the best feedback. The VAST majority of my feedback comes from the tension tool, so the less flexible it is the better. This is personal preference, however. Many very talented pickers absolutely LOVE springy tension tools. I guess the answer is that it's all technique. Any truly difficult lock will require not just light, moderate or heavy tension, but a variety of tensions applied at different phases of picking. Hopefully the tips under "Analytics" will help explain what tensions to use and when.
I'm really excited that you are diving into high security locks and learning the techniques to pick them! To me at least, these are the most exciting locks to pick and work on. I'm here to help if have other questions or if something is unclear.
LOL@ "Okay, that's picked! Now let's gut it, that's the hard part"
I've spent hours in my god damn lock and nothing. I've unlocked every other lock I own including ones with security pins but nothing with this one.
Drew Dman you are not alone. I too have spent countless hours screwing with this cylinder without any luck. Single pin, rakes, EPG, but nothing to show for it but a bunch of false sets and no matter how gently you ease off pressure on the tension wrench it causes every single one of the pins to reset. I'm starting to doubt myself and get desperate because I just can't allow a quickset to beat me. I simply cannot go out like that which is why I'm on UA-cam now looking at videos because there's got to be something I'm missing here
@@richard102879 i cant seem to pick any of these locks. I sit and mess with different cylenders when watching netflix and feel like a fish trying to swim up a river but keep running into a damn. False set for days
Gen 1 or 2. Can't do that with a Gen 3.
Dude and also the Defiant(Kwikset) is impossible..
what brand name tensioner are you using? The pick set I have needs a better tension rod.
It's a 0.040 Peterson Prybar. Pretty much all of my tools are from Peterson. They are a little more expensive than some of the other options, but I feel like the quality is worth it.
I agree the quality looks way better than my set.
I opened the one on my front door but bent 2 of the tabs on the side ended up breaking them.
And that is why part of the code for locksport is to not pick any locks that are in use. It's easy to fuck them up.
Excelente ganzuado, felicidades
the new smartkey locks have a square side bar that sits inside a squared recess... tensioning doesnt work on them as the bar binds up.
cant say i know of any bypass methods for smartkeys..what have u heard...i got one of those qtactical smartkey decoders but thats all i have ever heard of as bypass for these
I guess it's not so much of a bypass, as it is a force. If you put a key shaped item in the key and turn it hard, it will open the lock, leaving it still functional with the original key in most cases. Interestingly, Kwikset seems to have addressed this in their most recent design.
ah the dumbkey force tool...oryou can make one...or you can take a kw1 key cut at a 3 or bitting and break it off at the 3rdor 4th pin and use a screwdriveer to turn it
@@kylecorey88 hey Kyle, could you explain your method to us a little better, sounds like you have used it successfully. Thanks
great job!!
Thanks Jeff!
nice work!
Thanks dude!
I bought the decoder tool and it makes these things a breeze to open. You just read the code, punch out a key, and open it up.
Does it have a mirror for viewing inside keyway?
sorry i mean SPP haha my bad....
the key must be the sound.
Let’s see you pick it when it on a door