Street Fighter's Mythical Unwinnable Matchup

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  • Опубліковано 25 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1 тис.

  • @TheoryFighter
    @TheoryFighter  3 роки тому +411

    The bounty - twitter.com/TheoryFighter/status/1388419422210121728

    • @Comboman70
      @Comboman70 3 роки тому +31

      SNES version.

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +16

      The opening spd has certain limitations, but it works on EVERY version of World Warrior AND Champion Edition (where I became proficient with it):
      1) Frame-perfect=there's no "window" for it, there's exactly 1 frame where it's possible; the first frame where the letters "FIGHT" disappear. Meaning your input must be completed on that frame & no other 2) certain characters are NEVER in range for opening spd: dictator, claw, and dahlsim...anyone else can be reliably spd'd off the bat. Those characters CAN be opening spd'd IF they hit a button that extends their hit boxes on that same opening frame while Zangief simultaneously completes his spd input on that same frame (i.e. if any of them start off sliding on the first frame), but under no other circumstances. Any other character can be opening spd'd even if they do nothing, or try to walk or jump back.

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +2

      @@Comboman70 correct, but only the snes version of World Warrior, not Hyper Fighting

    • @danielwappner1035
      @danielwappner1035 3 роки тому +27

      @@LIONTAMER3D Honestly, that doesn't sound too believable. Why just that frame? Got any footage?

    • @6Diego1Diego9
      @6Diego1Diego9 3 роки тому +1

      @@LIONTAMER3D is it possible to SPD in one frame by hand?

  • @MrBroken030
    @MrBroken030 3 роки тому +2180

    "Unwinnable matchups" could be a format for a mini series of its own! Lookin at really bad matchups and evaluating why they are so one sided would be funny and interesting :D

  • @wads80z
    @wads80z 3 роки тому +1065

    Whats weird, is that Honda is one of Gief's toughest matches in most variants of SF2. Especially if Honda gets a life lead.

    • @Ryusuta
      @Ryusuta 3 роки тому +11

      Same here!

    • @dyldragon1
      @dyldragon1 3 роки тому +297

      The Honda matchup Flowchart:
      Opponent has a projectile --> Bad Matchup
      Opponent doesn't have a projectile --> Good Matchup

    • @Bager_RBN
      @Bager_RBN 3 роки тому +104

      Honda-Gief is one of the most lopsided matchups in ST, arguably _the_ most lopsided one that doesn't involve Akuma, to my knowledge. s.LP just invalidates Gief's entire movelist.

    • @hdez.diMayo
      @hdez.diMayo 3 роки тому +25

      I hate E. Honda

    • @javjuegos_8917
      @javjuegos_8917 3 роки тому +14

      @@micahlambert5726 that's the point, it's a myth, and it's contradictory

  • @RiskyBiscuit
    @RiskyBiscuit 3 роки тому +207

    To me it sounds like the kind of thing that was lost in the details. That walk up forward honda does or even a short walk forward from geif is all that's required to be in range for the throw.
    I think it was a lot of "you can get the throw basically at the beginning of the match bro" that turned into "i remember getting thrown by geif at the beginning of a match".

    • @jamesknapp64
      @jamesknapp64 5 місяців тому +6

      That seems like a very possible sequence of events. A Honda was walking up and got grabbed at 99.
      Story of "I walked up and was grabbed at 99" became "could be grabbed at the start" and with patches is slowly morphed into what we have today

  • @taylorbee4010
    @taylorbee4010 3 роки тому +558

    POV:
    You're Chun-Li in Super Turbo and Fei Long has you in the corner.

    • @randomweeaboo
      @randomweeaboo 3 роки тому +16

      What is the setup against Chun?

    • @AgelessObsession
      @AgelessObsession 3 роки тому +86

      ​@@randomweeaboo cl.HP into Chicken Wing combos into itself as a blockstring several times in the corner against Chun Li, and her reversals are terrible. She wins the matchup as long as it's midscreen, but if Fei gets her in the corner it's really hard to get back out.

    • @rzzz5946
      @rzzz5946 3 роки тому +5

      @@AgelessObsession it's not a true blockstring or no one could escape, reversal or not. Someone tried this on me in warmup for a tourney. But Chun has a 0f air throw. Problem solved.

    • @Cardboxx
      @Cardboxx 3 роки тому +9

      @@rzzz5946 If they do it properly, it's really hard to escape, because for any of your option(jump/reversal tensho) you have to stand up for at least one frame before getting your invincible move out, so ou either get clipped, or forced into stand block and he can go for another loop.
      One solution is to kara cancel cr.jab into tensho, so you "skip" the standing frame. It's still hard but at least you can escape it.

    • @smokeg1177
      @smokeg1177 3 роки тому +1

      Don’t jump I learned my lesson

  • @raymxslappedyall3660
    @raymxslappedyall3660 3 роки тому +301

    I've never noticed how "veiny" the vs is between the fighters name is

    • @walterreedjr6762
      @walterreedjr6762 6 місяців тому +1

      I just been that too

    • @dmdeign7116
      @dmdeign7116 6 місяців тому

      Oh man, I didn't need that pointed out to me lmao

    • @esqueue
      @esqueue 5 місяців тому

      lol

  • @Grummsh00
    @Grummsh00 3 роки тому +178

    I recall the early SF2 versions having some odd balancing choices. I used to main Blanka. If Blanka's rolling attack met E. Honda's super zutsuki it would one-shot Blanka. Literally 100 health to zero. Not fun, although I think it was fixed later.

    • @usagijojo
      @usagijojo 2 роки тому +57

      Yeah, that was an accidental design oversight. Initially they were going to have "critical hurtboxes" where if you hit the right spots or hit certain moves, you'd deal extra damage, but then after Capcom changed their minds and decided against the feature, they still forgot to remove it from Blanka's rolling attack. It was left in by mistake.

    • @dethlady0
      @dethlady0 2 роки тому +13

      @@usagijojo IIRC correctly, a certain frame of Ryu's dizzy animation had a similar oversight. It was mentioned in a tweet by one of the original game designers.

    • @Ramsey276one
      @Ramsey276one Рік тому +4

      NECK FRACTURE- *FATAL*
      XD

    • @in_vas_por8810
      @in_vas_por8810 Рік тому +1

      It's not a bad idea and I think many fighting games do have it, just not to that extent. It's basically a crit and it kinda makes sense to take more damage when you're not blocking or in the middle of an action.

    • @piratesephiroth
      @piratesephiroth Рік тому +2

      @@usagijojo I think Dictator's Psycho Crusher and Claw's Flying Barcelona Attack also had weak hurtboxes in World Warrior.
      But they're unplayable bosses so that might have been intentional.

  • @gansmith
    @gansmith 3 роки тому +463

    The round start SPD does exist, but there is a requirement to it:
    First, you must defeat Sheng Lon--

    • @MrBroken030
      @MrBroken030 3 роки тому +1

      hahahaah :D

    • @lancelance4582
      @lancelance4582 3 роки тому +1

      Haha

    • @mackchop3274
      @mackchop3274 3 роки тому +9

      So you must defeat Shen long for E. Honda to NOT have a chance? Sounds legit.

  • @bigbangbot-SuperSqank
    @bigbangbot-SuperSqank 2 роки тому +247

    For those of you who don’t know, it was discovered that this 10-0 MU did exist in an SNES beta version of the game (I remember seeing it on Twitter but I do not remember where to find footage of this matchup in that version).

    • @aesthetichistory9868
      @aesthetichistory9868 Рік тому +16

      Do you have any info on this? I wanna play this rom lol

    • @dianauwu1312
      @dianauwu1312 Рік тому +18

      Proof? I want to know.

    • @patomaletero
      @patomaletero 6 місяців тому +8

      I remember that in the SNES version it was possible to spd balrog beginning the match, but that trick only worked with bosses, I have no luck with the first opponents

    • @InfernosReaper
      @InfernosReaper 6 місяців тому +7

      @@dianauwu1312 Pretty sure that's just a way to try to justify a rumor because no one can test this since no one has the *beta* version, which makes me wonder how anyone would even have known about it being specifically the beta now, but not back then

    • @EnjoySackLunch
      @EnjoySackLunch 6 місяців тому +1

      Huh??

  • @happycamperds9917
    @happycamperds9917 3 роки тому +196

    I thought about the matchups in Super Turbo that are simply depicted as “1” for like Zangief vs Akuma.

  • @underplague6344
    @underplague6344 Рік тому +12

    A matchup so vile the game version it was in was redacted from history. That would make a really funny creepypasta tbh. "Zangief beats E. Honda so hard he locks away the SF2 beta"

  • @oklimbo
    @oklimbo 3 роки тому +220

    It'd be funny if there was a move Honda can do that immediately extend his hurtbox forward in a way that lets the SPD reach him and whoever first saw this was just a masher lmao

    • @thechugg4372
      @thechugg4372 3 роки тому +61

      I think that might be it, someone mashing, hundred slaps comes out, gets instant grabbed, become legend.

    • @danielwappner1035
      @danielwappner1035 3 роки тому +19

      Pretty sure that's it tbh

    • @Felipera_
      @Felipera_ 3 роки тому +30

      exactly my thoughts. knowing old school honda noobs, they were probably mashing punches.

    • @ShoRyuBarbie
      @ShoRyuBarbie 3 роки тому +8

      I haven't played WW in ages, but I'm pretty sure HHS didn't move forward yet.

    • @naotecurto
      @naotecurto 3 роки тому +1

      Just posted the same idea. Should have scrolled down to your comment. Up voted

  • @huevonesunltd
    @huevonesunltd 3 роки тому +758

    This is basically the Mandela effect of fighting games

    • @MrBroken030
      @MrBroken030 3 роки тому +9

      Could be right? I thought of that too, this could be a Bernstein Bear situation :D

    • @huevonesunltd
      @huevonesunltd 3 роки тому +26

      @@MrBroken030 You mean berenstain bears

    • @MrBroken030
      @MrBroken030 3 роки тому +9

      @@huevonesunltd exactly :D

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +7

      "Bernstein. Mel Bernstein. Chief detective, narcotics." -Antonio Montana

    • @TheGrayton2000
      @TheGrayton2000 3 роки тому +2

      @@LIONTAMER3D foreskin fore

  • @Larry
    @Larry 3 роки тому +647

    It's the whole "Animal Farm" debate again, the ol' "yes it does exist, but the proof is in something always unobtainable". When the beta is revealed and it's shown not to be the case, it'll then be moved to a rumour "oh it was a capcom tester who said so in the Alpha version" Etc.
    And be honest, how many people not only played the beta, but were also good enough in that short space of time before it was updated to not only discover the error, but also pull it off.

    • @Lovuschka
      @Lovuschka 3 роки тому +96

      Or only Todd Rogers did it by starting the game in second gear.

    • @theotherjared9824
      @theotherjared9824 3 роки тому +26

      It's a textbook appeal to ignorance. There is no proof for it ever existing, but there is also no proof against it ever existing either. People are using that flimsy technicality as their whole argument.

    • @mafiousbj
      @mafiousbj 3 роки тому +26

      @@charleswebb1674 if we are honest a video capturing just the screen is little evidence. Could very well be an altered ROM. And people say they saw this in arcades, yet the ROM in question is a Beta SNES which no common person would have had access back then.
      Reminds me of Billy Mitchell's supposed world records at Donkey Kong ^^

    • @abaddononion
      @abaddononion 3 роки тому +2

      @@Lovuschka Underrated comment.

    • @SolidSonicTH
      @SolidSonicTH 3 роки тому +20

      Basically how conspiracy theories operate.
      "THE GOVERNMENT IS TOTALLY MANIPULATING THE TRUTH."
      "Okay, can you prove that?"
      "I COULD IF THEY WEREN'T COVERING IT UP."
      >:|

  • @Emezie
    @Emezie 3 роки тому +496

    Longshot and I'm sure you already tried this...but is it possible for Gief to walk forward slightly and then SPD at a position and timing such that Honda can't jump out? I know SPD has instant startup and jump preframes can be thrown in SF2...so maybe? Probably not, though...

    • @TheoryFighter
      @TheoryFighter  3 роки тому +221

      Unfortunately not, honda can jump or HHS (as SPD doesn't reach). The closest we got was using the proximity guard on f.MK to trap him in place but that still has counters.

    • @soggybread4583
      @soggybread4583 3 роки тому +3

      @@dantedeloden that's terrifying

    • @dantedeloden
      @dantedeloden 3 роки тому +6

      @@soggybread4583 i pick zangief.

    • @DaDoc540
      @DaDoc540 3 роки тому +6

      If this was possible, then "[STREET FIGHTER] meets [PORKCHOP 'n FLATSCREEN]!" would have ended-and started-very differently…

    • @SMTDDR
      @SMTDDR 3 роки тому

      @@dantedeloden ooooh wow

  • @Hotobu
    @Hotobu 3 роки тому +229

    Wasn't there a version of Champion Edition where Zangief couldn't duck under Sagat's high tiger shot, and he couldn't jump over it? That's a 10-0 if so.

    • @LucasHpm
      @LucasHpm 3 роки тому +6

      What about Lariat

    • @Hotobu
      @Hotobu 3 роки тому +36

      @@LucasHpm believe it only had midsection invulnerability.

    • @lifeonleo1074
      @lifeonleo1074 3 роки тому +7

      @@Hotobu you are right lairat had only midsection invisibility, Sagats high tiger would hit gif on his head.

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +27

      It's was generally impossible for Zangief to get past tiger shot spam

    • @ranhaines2012
      @ranhaines2012 3 роки тому +40

      It was his World Warrior version. Against Sagat, you would have to jump at him as soon as the round starts.

  • @Jazerus
    @Jazerus 3 роки тому +63

    The SF2 devs have said in interviews a few times that one of the biggest changes they made after the first location test was a major Zangief nerf because somebody just bodied everybody who challenged him with Zangief. They overnerfed him which is why Zangief's hitboxes in WW are pretty bad. I find it hard to believe that this was the source of the rumor though - SPD is a really rough move to execute for a new player, would the first guy to ever play as Zangief, before anyone on the planet was "good" at fighting games, really have figured out such a memorable exploit with it, and then talked about it enough for people to remember?
    I don't think we'll be seeing this board dumped any time soon though - I very much doubt that it still exists.

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому +23

      Its been proven to work on the SNES beta version:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

    • @overkill1473
      @overkill1473 2 роки тому +9

      Yoshiki Okamoto said there was a japanese location test player racking up a 60+ winning streak with Zangief in the beta of WW. He did not go into detail, but its on his youtube channel. I always thought the same. Like how can somebody be this dominant in a game that hasn't even come out yet.

  • @popixel
    @popixel 2 роки тому +36

    From what I understand, when SF2 was in beta (location) testing they had found that Zangief was winning absurd amounts of games time after time. It’s possible that it, as you said, was in the beta that has not been publically released.

  • @misterguru5135
    @misterguru5135 3 роки тому +99

    I just saw this video today - and YES! YES it was real!! We used to witness it in the arcade all the time - The thing is .... it was 'nearly' always on an arcade box that had some sort of action replay device! You know, you could do fireballs in the air, no cooldown for sonic booms that sort of thing. So, I'm guessing that people are remembering matchups on those machines, where Zaingef really could just grab you right at the beginning, and there was nothing you could do about it!

    • @universalperson
      @universalperson 3 роки тому +29

      Ah, Rainbow Street Fighter

    • @Ken-zg3ze
      @Ken-zg3ze 2 роки тому +4

      Is this the answer? @theoryfighter

    • @SrSacaninha
      @SrSacaninha 2 роки тому +5

      This is what I thought as well. Street Fighter de Rodoviária.

    • @pandedon
      @pandedon 2 роки тому +4

      i remember those in the arcades, those versions will definitely be omitted in the match-up bracket data for sure

    • @KevboKev
      @KevboKev 2 роки тому +12

      I remember one of the arcade boxes had a glitch that would allow you as Ryu (probably Ken, too) that once you took away more of the enemy's life than yours, you can jump, do a helicopter kick, keep mashing the button, and you would float to the top of the screen and pop up near the bottom and you could keep going up. However, once you were up even just one screen, it was like you were completely off, as the enemy could not attack you at all. When time ran out, you won by default, and you would fall rapidly through all the screens you went up.

  • @PrecludeLP
    @PrecludeLP 3 роки тому +110

    I hope someone comes for that £100. This is pretty interesting. Great work so far trying to track it down.

    • @gizaha
      @gizaha 3 роки тому +3

      Most likely someone will patch the rom with fake date and hack the honda hurtbox in order to work. That's what happens when you pay.

    • @Bladieblah
      @Bladieblah 3 роки тому +3

      @@gizaha Just ask them for the version and let a TAS'er verify it or let a bunch of other people try to replicate it on that version. If only that one person can do that on that version, that is reason to doubt it's legitimacy. If they really want to prove it they can give additional proof

    • @gizaha
      @gizaha 3 роки тому

      @@Bladieblah Me why? I don't care, i just told the dangers.

    • @Bladieblah
      @Bladieblah 3 роки тому +3

      @@gizaha It's called reacting to someone, you said it could be cheated so I reacted to that with solutions. When you make statements you will find that this happens more often than you'd think

    • @gizaha
      @gizaha 3 роки тому

      @@Bladieblah Read again what you said in the first comment. I said that someone would patch the rom with fake date in order to claim that this is a beta rom that only he has. Thus your second comment is not valid.

  • @JackgarPrime
    @JackgarPrime 3 роки тому +15

    World Warrior was some crazy, wonky stuff. The legendary "handcuffs" are a perfect example.

  • @tinkerer3399
    @tinkerer3399 3 роки тому +37

    Yeah, it always sounded like a myth to me. The distance is just too great, either the fighters would have to be closer together (which I haven't seen) or Zangeifs hit box would have to be TRULY monstrous (and that would be more memorable than the 10-0). That leaves glitches which is possible but seems odd. I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible but my gut has always steered me towards it being false.

    • @charleswebb1674
      @charleswebb1674 3 роки тому +1

      Apparently not: twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

    • @tinkerer3399
      @tinkerer3399 3 роки тому +2

      @@charleswebb1674 Yep, although to be fair I was basing my judgement off it being a version of an arcade machine since those are actually played by the public. With it being a SNES beta my only guess is that the rumor started in the early days of emulation.

    • @SubduedRadical
      @SubduedRadical 2 роки тому

      @@charleswebb1674 Oh wow!

  • @WHIPLASHVideosTBT
    @WHIPLASHVideosTBT 3 роки тому +46

    This yt channel is rapidly becoming one of the most interesting i'm subbed to. Auto watch tier.

  • @TheBlueArcher
    @TheBlueArcher 3 роки тому +52

    YES! I"VE BEEN TESTING EVERY WW I"VE COME ACROSS FOR YEARS SINCE I FIRST HEARD OF THIS ABOUT 6 OR 7 YEARS AGO AND NEVER CAME ACROSS IT! I WILL ADD $100 CAD IF SOMEONE CAN GET VIDEO FOOTAGE FOR THIS

    • @Rayuzx
      @Rayuzx 3 роки тому +8

      twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

    • @TheBlueArcher
      @TheBlueArcher 3 роки тому +1

      @@Rayuzx Yeah I was notified on twitter within minutes of her posting that. I've already been in contact with her. Paypal didn't want to convert to BRL so I was checking whether she wanted USD, or something else.

  • @hariman7727
    @hariman7727 2 роки тому +7

    The most likely possibility, in my view, would be that someone just did not have the presence of mind to do something other than walk forward as E. Honda.
    It was most likely someone Young, as well as someone who had Honda as their favorite character and would walk forward against all the other enemies while almost never going up against zangief.

  • @Zetact_
    @Zetact_ 3 роки тому +23

    I severely doubt it. Even in the messy dev cycles of the 90s I really don't think that anyone on staff would look at the hitbox of SPD and allow it to reach anyone at the start of the round. Glitches can exist but they tend to be based on doing weird stuff that that confuses the game and in SF2 they seem to mostly involve hit boxes disappearing when they have boxes getting involved and not moving. The only glitch I could see working for is if there was some glitch that caused the starting position to be a little closer between characters.

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому +3

      Its been proven true:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @NotTheWheel
    @NotTheWheel 2 роки тому +9

    I never knew arcade machines had balancing patch chips... This changed my perspective on a few things.

    • @joshthefunkdoc
      @joshthefunkdoc 6 місяців тому +2

      There's a lot of hidden history there. With Tekken 2, for example, the first version had a very doable infinite for Bruce (any launch into looping b+4,3 over and over); one of the original top Tekken players in the US (tomhilfiger) talked about Bruce being banned in Korean arcades during this time! This was removed in their next revision, so it's not widely known anymore.

  • @CB66941
    @CB66941 3 роки тому +57

    That SPD range on one of the versions is as if Honda teleported into Zangief's arms for an upside down hug

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +4

      In Super Street Fighter 2 (not super turbo) Zangief has full-screen SPD range, one frame only =)

    • @CB66941
      @CB66941 3 роки тому

      @@LIONTAMER3D now you got me interested. Does that have video proof? I know with Sim it's possible

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +3

      @@CB66941 you can block projectiles @ full screen & spd counter anybody
      @@CB66941 ua-cam.com/video/pjH2X7gJMik/v-deo.html
      I stand corrected: you CAN do it in super turbo with O. Zangief

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +3

      ua-cam.com/video/9qfezI-XpX0/v-deo.html
      1 frame window

    • @CB66941
      @CB66941 3 роки тому +1

      @@LIONTAMER3D lol the quality of the first one. I think I saw this before in a Zangief compilation. Thanks!

  • @possumverde
    @possumverde 2 роки тому +10

    I'm pretty sure the myth has it's origins in "casual" play. A lot of young/casual players were aggressive and had a tendency to move forward as soon as they had control. If both did so on the first few frames in a Hondo/Zangeif matchup, the range would be right to start the combo. Over time, people remembered it as a completely lopsided match up to be avoided but forgot that forward movement was needed from both players for it to lead to the lock.

    • @austinreed7343
      @austinreed7343 Рік тому

      Also, Honda is a CHARGE character, he has to move backwards.

  • @orbitaljellyfish808
    @orbitaljellyfish808 3 роки тому +6

    Great vid 👏👏
    My guess is Honda walked into it and people remember it as round start
    It is a ridiculously distant grab after all

  • @feliciavale4279
    @feliciavale4279 3 роки тому +85

    That is some melee Marth-tier grab range

  • @GustavoSilva-ny8jc
    @GustavoSilva-ny8jc Рік тому +3

    4:06 Respect the commitment brotha. It's the kind of thing a help would be the best tho, what could take days might be done in 1 or 2h.

  • @shrikelet
    @shrikelet 3 роки тому +40

    Could such a glaring oversight slip through Capcom's testing process?
    Thank you, I'll be here all night.

  • @listerofsmeg884
    @listerofsmeg884 3 роки тому +5

    Remember when SF2 first came to the SNES , people were always refering to Zangrief, because he was such a tough character to master. Clearly over the decades, that changed

    • @marcellachine5718
      @marcellachine5718 2 роки тому +3

      I remember in about 1994, I was at an arcade, an older kid challenged me as I was playing the computer. He said choose which character he was. I smugly said zagnief. Well my chung li got her ass handed to her. Never saw someone use zagnief like that till then.

  • @michiganjack1337
    @michiganjack1337 3 роки тому +52

    So if you do a SPD with Fierce on both sticks at the same time during the 1st round start, Gief will then transform into Hagger from Final Fight. But first you must defeat Sheng Long.

    • @ultimateman55
      @ultimateman55 3 роки тому +7

      Ah yes. I remember hearing about this back in 1992 on the playground in 4th grade.

    • @ErwalDeeas
      @ErwalDeeas 3 роки тому +2

      My uncle who worked at Nintendo told me about it.

    • @michaelbelmont5305
      @michaelbelmont5305 3 роки тому +1

      Shit bro that's cool but it ain't got shit on what dudes uncle at Nintendo told me?...he said after you beat S.L?....if you play mortal Kombat and make it to Shang TSUNG?...terry bogard be ones playable on both games

  • @ghin780
    @ghin780 3 роки тому +3

    That's weird because I remember playing Turbo and Honda could basically walk around using hundred hand slap and make it so you as Zangief could never be in a position to hit him out of it.

  • @0f128
    @0f128 3 роки тому +59

    Svc is a damn underrated game there should be a 2nd one someday

    • @huevonesunltd
      @huevonesunltd 3 роки тому +4

      It was broken as hell but it had it's charm
      Just like SF2 but not as broken

    • @0f128
      @0f128 3 роки тому +1

      @@huevonesunltd sf2 is even worse broken wise but fun as hell

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому +2

      I'd rather have cvs3

    • @TheTrueBro
      @TheTrueBro 3 роки тому +3

      SvC isn't underrated at all. Latinamerica, China and Mid west play it like hell.
      It's a broken unpolished mess though. It needed more development time.

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому

      @@0f128 it's broken in a fun way, like roll cancelation in cvs2

  • @yakovhadash
    @yakovhadash 3 роки тому +44

    The real SPD was the friends we made along the way.

  • @CherryPixelBun
    @CherryPixelBun 3 роки тому +5

    I know the comments mentioned it already but perhaps this came from one of the console ports. Granted World Warrior was only on SNES (not counting the obviously drastically different 8bit and computer ports) but I guess it wouldnt hurt to check the Genesis version of Turbo. Perhaps someone misremembered "Special Champion Edition" (which despite the name was basically just the genesis version of Hyper Fighting) as being one of the early editions

    • @Lukmendes
      @Lukmendes 3 роки тому

      Someone seems to have done it on the SNES beta version
      twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

    • @jackcoleman1784
      @jackcoleman1784 Рік тому

      Man the Genesis port/s were such garbage. I remember years ago I had to explain to my cousin who was ten years younger than me about how the Genesis controller didn't have enough buttons for a six button like SF but still had it anyway. He didn't believe me until I showed him a picture of the controller and booted up a ROM.

  • @stonebeard2194
    @stonebeard2194 3 роки тому +9

    So cool of you to put up a bounty and such an interesting story. I’ll fire up the roms that I have just to check. Sending Good Vibes

  • @Prisoner-jf8vi
    @Prisoner-jf8vi 2 роки тому +2

    As a kid growing up in Brooklyn that I was straight up punching with Chun Li and no one could beat me. It was the light jab and she would punch punch and throw you down. . Those were my sf2 glory days

  • @sadiceninlordoz4378
    @sadiceninlordoz4378 3 роки тому +6

    I liked the spirit for chasing a myth.
    I recall that I could manage KO Sagat with only 2 LP DPs with perfect timing by whiff punishing his tiger uppercut in SF2 World Warrior.
    I searched it but there is no footage of that. It may be a good challenge to record that one.

    • @TheSpectre2300
      @TheSpectre2300 3 роки тому

      That's not farfetched. Sagat DID take double damage if you punished a whiffed Uppercut in World Warrior.

    • @sadiceninlordoz4378
      @sadiceninlordoz4378 3 роки тому

      @@TheSpectre2300 Fair enough, I know it is not a rumor but my point is I am not a good player and could not do it again and also couldn't find any footage of it with perfect KO.

    • @paulguthrie6736
      @paulguthrie6736 3 роки тому +1

      Have u seen the damage from blanka,s roll into a dragon punch it’s about 70%

    • @TheSpectre2300
      @TheSpectre2300 3 роки тому

      @@paulguthrie6736 Indeed I have!

  • @NathanMarchandAuthor
    @NathanMarchandAuthor 3 роки тому +4

    I was expecting the 10-0 matchup to be in Honda’s favor. In SFII, he can’t jump over Honda’s Hundred-Hand Slap.

  • @Ciara0
    @Ciara0 3 роки тому +3

    Your content consistently gets better all the time. Great stuff

  • @joseluki
    @joseluki 3 роки тому +8

    That piledriver range is wild.

  • @unagisauce
    @unagisauce 3 роки тому +21

    Sean vs Chun-Li: SVC Chaos

    • @Thelowestofthelowtiers
      @Thelowestofthelowtiers 3 роки тому +3

      2ndImp Sean vs Everyone in SF: SvC Chaos

    • @danobra
      @danobra 3 роки тому +1

      Sean in SvC Chaos? Is this a meme I don't know about?

    • @Corpstoucher
      @Corpstoucher 3 роки тому

      @@danobra it’s a real Game! PS2, XBOX AND DREAMCAST.

  • @Tim85-y2q
    @Tim85-y2q 3 роки тому +3

    Even with a game this old and effectively obsolete, I would have to imagine at least one person would make a video if it were indeed possible. I suspect this is one of those gaming urban legends that just took on a life of its own.

    • @charleswebb1674
      @charleswebb1674 3 роки тому

      twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      It's been found and the bounty has been paid. The update is in the video's description.

    • @Tim85-y2q
      @Tim85-y2q 3 роки тому

      @@mydemon Yes, but it was in the beta, so it's an arguable point how much it counts. I've yet to see evidence it can be done in any version of the game that actually saw release.

  • @tinyhowie
    @tinyhowie 2 роки тому +1

    I did that all the time with Zangief when I was a kid in arcade centers. It has a requirement, your opponent has to do something to expand his hitbox. Ryu always starts with a Hadoken, grab. On high difficulty Honda will use Hand Slap as first move, grab. If any of these didn't happen. You won't get it. Back in the days arcade centers loved to wind up the difficulty which it always have some moves at the start. If it's not a jump or moving back, you can pull this trick.

  • @tw1c_
    @tw1c_ 3 роки тому +11

    Saw this discussion in the Alpha 2 discord. Really hope this gets solved!
    Edit: yea it was found like, immediately after the video was posted lol

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому

      It's been "solved" a long time ago lol

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      The link has been added in the description. Someone found the version of SF2 where this 10-0 matchup exists.

    • @LIONTAMER3D
      @LIONTAMER3D 3 роки тому

      @@mydemon it exists in every version lol

  • @PsychokoreUndergroundRap
    @PsychokoreUndergroundRap 2 роки тому +1

    On the SNES.. Honda always wins against Zangief. Because Zangief can't jump high enough to get over the 1000 hands attack.
    You might get lucky from time to time to get a sweep in. But if the Honda player mashes high and fierce, its basically impossible. The only saving grace in sf2 on the snes is, that honda can't move forward like in turbo with that move.

  • @Everdistance
    @Everdistance 3 роки тому +12

    In Dissidia 012 for the PSP, Jecht vs Emperor is 0-10 in Emperor's favor on most tier lists. Granted that game never really had much of a competitive scene for a variety of reasons, but it's the only time I've ever seen a 0-10 matchup that didn't involve a banned character.

  • @Gelwain
    @Gelwain 3 роки тому

    I enjoy your process of ensuring credibility by refusing to dismiss the possibility that it exists. You work though all known vectors, expand your search, and continue. That's a very professional way to do it!

  • @routercoach
    @routercoach 3 роки тому +4

    There was another one which I only saw once in the arcade many years ago (I was the one that actually did it) - short uppercut with Ryu taking over 3/4 health energy from Blanka when he was using the spinning roll attack. Almost 1 move kill!!

    • @Lastjustice
      @Lastjustice 2 роки тому +4

      Early versions had character take critical damage If their special attacks got hit or countered. I remember taking nearly half of Bison's health when he psycho crushered into my electricity as Blanka. The charge back moves seem to be the ones that all suffered from this weakness.

  • @mattryan7124
    @mattryan7124 3 роки тому +2

    Funny thing is I remember doing all those soft lock, crash, and other glitches on original sf2. Especially with Guile, dhalsim, etc.

  • @EastyyBlogspot
    @EastyyBlogspot 3 роки тому +11

    Not a hacked version like black belt or rainbow edition ?

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      Its been proven true on the SNES Beta version;
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @dimitaraleksandrov6381
    @dimitaraleksandrov6381 4 місяці тому

    Very interesting. I really like the scientific approach and testing of every version you could find.
    My personal theory (not proven) - when playing the game as a kid you wanted to win as quickly as possible and start as quickly as possible which usually meant heading in the direction of your opponent, not opposite. Like you said - if Honda moves forward at the start - the SPD chain can start. And afterwards it has just been passed from generation to generation :)

  • @ToastNova
    @ToastNova 6 місяців тому +3

    just looked into it, its from the BETA of the SNES version of WW, no wonder you didnt find it on FBN

  • @SyntaxHeir
    @SyntaxHeir 3 роки тому +2

    I love the dedication. I love the research. Great video. Thank you.

  • @neontetra1000
    @neontetra1000 3 роки тому +12

    Did you try it with Honda crouch blocking? It may make his hurt box thicker.

    • @kevingriffith6011
      @kevingriffith6011 3 роки тому +11

      That might get the round-start SPD, but not in a way that would create the legendary 10-0 matchup, as all Honda players would have to do to avoid it would be t o not crouch-block to start.

    • @ThePallidor
      @ThePallidor 3 роки тому +3

      It would explain the mistaken memory though.

  • @AuntBibby
    @AuntBibby 3 роки тому +8

    see, @TheoryFighter you really put in the effort. that's what makes you more trustworthy than the average r/streetfighter edgelord funhater. you tried it in every version of street fighter world warrior, which was probably a really tedious boring task, and then you posted the bounty and request in a bunch of places. there isnt much more you could have done. Real Science is testing things that have already been deemed proven, to see if they still hold up. you are a true FGC scientist, not just a videocreator

  • @Anjohl
    @Anjohl 3 роки тому +9

    I always hated that "cheaty" AI. The CPU should have to play by the same rules the player does!

    • @whirl3690
      @whirl3690 3 роки тому

      The video does not mention AI a single time

    • @Anjohl
      @Anjohl 3 роки тому +1

      @@whirl3690 um, that's the whole premise.

    • @whirl3690
      @whirl3690 3 роки тому

      No, it actually isn't. You watched the video, no?

    • @Anjohl
      @Anjohl 3 роки тому +1

      @@whirl3690 yes it was, and yes I did

    • @whirl3690
      @whirl3690 3 роки тому

      Tell me one of the points of the video that mentions AI.

  • @JannPoo
    @JannPoo 6 місяців тому +1

    It's amazing how certain myths about video games spread and everyone accepts them as facts, until someone asks "but where's the proof"?
    Another one that I was convinced was true was the aggression level overflow bug of Ghandi in Civilization. There's a whole article about that on Wikipedia.

  • @Rapid98k
    @Rapid98k 2 роки тому +5

    It is possible on SNES version

  • @joshdavis8381
    @joshdavis8381 3 роки тому +1

    So, 6 months later, has anyone been able to find this? I'm really curious. I occasionally rewatch this video, not just because it's interesting on its own, but to look at the comments to see if something was finally found on it.

    • @SolidSonicTH
      @SolidSonicTH 3 роки тому +1

      Someone did, actually, and claimed the bounty. I don't know if there's a UA-cam video of it, though. It's on an early version of the SNES game.

  • @tonyg_fgc8152
    @tonyg_fgc8152 3 роки тому +3

    Be careful man, someone may make a rom hack (modded rom) and sell it to you as the beta. In any case, good video :)

    • @firstnamelastname8534
      @firstnamelastname8534 3 роки тому +1

      Holy shit you're right dude

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      The version has been found and verified. You can check the video description for the update.

  • @pingpong4234
    @pingpong4234 3 роки тому +2

    played on 1 of the first version in London goodge st where a capcom staff was present and also the first SF 2 tournament in London & never seen zangief spinning piledriver at the start... I call it highly unlikely considering at the beginning hardly anyone pick zangief also doing 2 hit combo + spinning piledriver that came later on.

  • @wrentheenby
    @wrentheenby 3 роки тому +7

    babe wake up new theory fighter video

    • @nottobay6768
      @nottobay6768 3 роки тому

      Aaaa, funny seeing you here. 😃

  • @daithiocinnsealach1982
    @daithiocinnsealach1982 3 роки тому

    I sort of found myself in this part of UA-cam. I'm amazed at the level of interest Street Fighter still draws. I used to play the original SNES version back in the day 30 years ago. Man that makes me start to feel old 😂

  • @awc7279
    @awc7279 3 роки тому +3

    Pretty sure the rainbow edition can SPD grab from any distance :D

  • @axebox
    @axebox 3 роки тому +1

    Some moves increase hitbox. So on round start, if Honda did a move that increased his hitbox while Gief simultaneously did an SPD, theoretically it could connect.

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      Its been proven to work on the SNES beta version:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @squilliam0909
    @squilliam0909 3 роки тому +32

    I thought it’s was gonna be about Dhalsim Gief lmao

    • @Switcheroo4542
      @Switcheroo4542 3 роки тому +3

      The only 10-0 match up I've heard of is Akuma vs Gief in SF2, I expected that lol

    • @Grogeous_Maximus
      @Grogeous_Maximus 3 роки тому

      @@Switcheroo4542 Akuma in SF2? O_o

    • @Switcheroo4542
      @Switcheroo4542 3 роки тому +2

      @@Grogeous_Maximus super turbo, my bad

    • @aoisora1445
      @aoisora1445 3 роки тому

      what about dhalsim getting grabbed when throwing a punch and hit with a spinning piledriver, or was that just a random bug

  • @JagoShogun
    @JagoShogun 3 роки тому +1

    this is the "babalities, animalities, living-forest-eats-you, purple-rain ninja" of Street Fighter; An urban legend.

  • @Majkels
    @Majkels 3 роки тому +11

    MANDELA EFFECT SPOTTED

  • @gruvee9334
    @gruvee9334 3 роки тому

    Wasn't a "Zangief main" but I did notice the "extra range" on the USA and EU releases on the SNES. I know you're referring to the arcade version here. Just happy to see that there was an explanation for this :D.

  • @Qnzdipset1
    @Qnzdipset1 3 роки тому +5

    Did you try the console versions?

  • @dreamakuma
    @dreamakuma 3 роки тому +1

    It may be a hazy Memory, But I think I remember getting pretty peeved at SF2 on SNES because I'd get SPD'd by the CPU at start sometimes. The AI felt so cheap I almost didn't get turbo. One of my favorite versions of the game.

  • @swagger5979
    @swagger5979 3 роки тому +4

    Opening with Snk vs capcom chaos my 2nd fav fighting game of all time!!!
    Nice.

  • @hachi666roku
    @hachi666roku 5 місяців тому

    As someone who used to SPD ryu’s guile, anyone with a fireball - if your opponent’s shadow comes into range with Zangief’s Throw range, you could SPD. If you block the right frame of a move, like Ehonda’s Hard punch / sweep, you can input SPD and before Honda’s done - caught.
    You also could use the spd as a landing capture, so if you can range yourself out of the jump, direction did not matter, input the SPD and the second the opponent lands, captured.
    This dominance is why Zangief started getting grab animations and capcom toyed with his technical aspects. If you could not bait zangief players, you lost

  • @ShaolinTech_
    @ShaolinTech_ 3 роки тому +5

    Good vid, worthy of an episode of Pop Fiction.

  • @brentsta
    @brentsta 3 роки тому +2

    What if Honda mashes at round start? Can you throw a whiffed move or Hondas punch special?

  • @denjin_hado
    @denjin_hado 3 роки тому +8

    Could this be possible in the SNES port? Maybe since it's been a long time the games got confused but idk

    • @LucasHpm
      @LucasHpm 3 роки тому +1

      We gotta have some people trying now.

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      Its been proven to work on the SNES beta version. The bounty was claimed and discussed here:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @DBear789
    @DBear789 6 місяців тому

    This is gonna sound random but when I was a kid I was on holiday in Spain and I completed the street fighter 2 arcade game in the hotel. I used guile and I figured out a way to throw a very slow sonic boom thing and you could cover the screen in them. Once the first one hit you could just load up loads of very slow sonic booms and the opponent could not escape. It was so strange that I’ve remembered it to this day:

    • @Mascabar
      @Mascabar 4 місяці тому +1

      That’s rainbow edition, it’s an unofficial mod of the game that has a bunch of really dumb stuff like that

  • @AzraelThanatos
    @AzraelThanatos 3 роки тому +4

    Considering the setup of the move forward, that actually seems like there might be another explanation that would also cover why the roms aren't working for it.
    It might have been a hardware bug that was rather minute but uncaught and thought a part of the game, something that has popped up in even modern consoles.
    Drift...the same things that the Nintendo Switch joy-cons have had since that came out and has been a relatively common mess with just about every joystick to some level over time.
    Basically, having something going wrong with the stick that it might register movement and start it just enough that it dumps him into range for it with hardware having the issue.

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому +1

      Its been proven to work on the SNES beta version:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @fezzwheel2572
    @fezzwheel2572 3 роки тому +1

    Isn't it referenced at www.eventhubs.com/news/2020/jul/22/one-unbeatable-street-fighter-2-zangief-expert-was-reason-character-was-weak-so-long/
    **"Regardless of how much we balanced Zangief in-house, this one Zangief expert would win all the time," Okamoto said.
    Capcom would send employees out to these location tests to take notes on how characters were faring against one another. The calls back to HQ reported that Zangief was strong, explaining that one Zangief player had won 85 times in a row at one point."**
    So an early version of the game eventually got nerfed

  • @willmoua1
    @willmoua1 3 роки тому +8

    Round start spd? Never heard of it. Playing since 91

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      Its been proven to work on the SNES beta version:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @djslip_irie
    @djslip_irie 3 роки тому +1

    The CPU must do it. It's godly with Zangief. He would bolt forward using the facing direction as start and end the SPD command. The slower circle allows zangief to step forward for half of the command.

  • @karue7581
    @karue7581 3 роки тому +4

    Wait for people to mod the game just to try and get the bounty

    • @TheoryFighter
      @TheoryFighter  3 роки тому +6

      That's why the ROM is a requirement!

    • @karue7581
      @karue7581 3 роки тому +1

      @@TheoryFighter Ohh, gotcha! Very interested to see whether this actually exists or not

  • @theonewiththeeyeoftruth884
    @theonewiththeeyeoftruth884 3 роки тому +1

    Zangief can't do this combo (jump-knee, crouch-jab, SPD) against Ryu or Ken, right? Because they can just Shoryuken, which is invincible and hits anyone out of any move unless he's blocking. Does that jump-knee hit before the Shoryuken can be started by a rising Ryu or Ken?

  • @320speed
    @320speed 3 роки тому +11

    Why you always showing Ken losing??

    • @TheManyVoicesVA
      @TheManyVoicesVA 6 місяців тому +8

      Because Ken is always losing.

    • @2girls1up
      @2girls1up 6 місяців тому +2

      @@TheManyVoicesVAboo

    • @TheManyVoicesVA
      @TheManyVoicesVA 6 місяців тому +4

      @@2girls1up ah! You scared me.

    • @CrypticCocktails
      @CrypticCocktails 6 місяців тому

      He’s just, anywhere else he’d be a 0-10

  • @vintageswiss9096
    @vintageswiss9096 2 роки тому

    @TheoryFighter I very much doubt that this comment will get seen after all of this time, but I believe I know where this mythical version originated.
    Around mid 1992, there was a weird south asian bootleg cabinet that started popping up in locations that couldn't get access to an original World Warrior cabinet. Super Street Fighter 2 was coming out in 1993, and they weren't producing World Warrior cabinets anymore to get ready for the release of the Super cabinets.
    The bootleg has super glitchy hitboxes and frame delays that, I'm assuming after seeing your video, may have allowed a round start SPD on Honda.
    This same company was responsible for the SSF2 and Turbo bootleg cabinets that let you do Sonic Booms in mid air with no charge up, and the booms also flew in a wavy up-down pattern. You could jump back from round start and fill the entire screen in one jump and an opponent could not do anything about it, lol (among many many other crazy bugs).
    The World Warrior bootleg cabinet isn't remembered because, well it was actually decent. I'm sure tons of your viewers will remember the crazy Turbo cabs.

  • @dantedeloden
    @dantedeloden 3 роки тому +5

    too bad i didnt get that 100 dollars, someone posted an hour before i found this

  • @battleboo4u
    @battleboo4u 3 роки тому

    found u on reddit.
    4:05 is why I subbed.
    jesus that must have taken eons

  • @mattgoo
    @mattgoo 3 роки тому +3

    mandela effect mannn...

  • @MichaelBackwards
    @MichaelBackwards 3 роки тому +1

    Maybe this myth comes from some Honda’s not moving at the beginning of the match and the Gief player doesn’t realize that he made a step forward and did the spd.

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      Not a myth. Its been proven true:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @stashthevampede0
    @stashthevampede0 3 роки тому +1

    Zangief could *never* grab Honda off the beginning of start, unless Honda moved forward. Even with the oldest SF2 rom widely available (910214), Zangief simply cannot reach without Honda's help.

  • @Guitar-Dog
    @Guitar-Dog 3 роки тому

    Yo dude keep up the good work! I love these types of channels

  • @subliminal6969
    @subliminal6969 3 роки тому +1

    It will either be a Kara throw or cancelling the first frames of a jump to slightly increase grab range.

    • @mydemon
      @mydemon 3 роки тому

      Its been proven to work on the SNES beta version:
      mobile.twitter.com/ElenoreHU3BR/status/1392631406124224512

  • @Ayuima69
    @Ayuima69 Рік тому +1

    The only thing that makes sense to me is the game was probably an arcade cabinet of one of the "unofficial " knock off versions with broken moves. I can imagine of the didn't have a zangief infinite with a farther range throw.

  • @leandrusi4533
    @leandrusi4533 6 місяців тому +2

    The version DOES EXISTS.
    There was a challenge with money as a reward to anyone who provided proof the version existed.
    It did got responded with a snes rom version and won the challenge.
    I find it odd that uploader didnt already found this information...

    • @sdvsdvsdcsd
      @sdvsdvsdcsd 5 місяців тому +1

      This video is years old and the guy making it put up money. The even says it at the end off the video lmao

  • @samuelnieves1752
    @samuelnieves1752 3 роки тому +1

    I’m late to this vid but, the idea of a chip as an update seems so crazy. Imagine waiting a year for an update then running to your arcade and they don’t have the chip. Tough times indeed.