HOW LION EL'JONSON COULD ACCEPT GUILLIMAN AS IMPERIAL REGENT!
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2022
- Hi all Rho here! Today we discuss how the Primarch Lion El'Jonson, could accept his brother Roboute Guilliman as Imperial Regent of the Imperium despite their difficulties...
General Spoiler Warning to begin as we will be referencing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. So you have been warned!
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While Guilliman's response to the Ecclesiarchy and others in the Imperium has been appeasement and mostly trying to just stay out of their way and do his own thing. I think The Lion's response to each and every single one of them would be that meme of Bane placing his hand on that guys shoulder and saying Do you feel in charge?
Oh that would be fucking epic could totally see him doing something in that style also could see Guilliman do that in a more diplomatic way as well could be cool
@@killinspecialist1965 Good Primarch/Bad Primarch routine?
Lion: I'll gut you like a fish!
Robute: He will, you know. But maybe if you talk to me and we can come to an agreement that pleases everyme, I can talk him down to a friendly, gentle, maybe even lover-like spanking.
This
I agree, Guilliman lacks the resources to directly take on the Ecclesiarchy. But if Johnson returns and unites the Fallen with his Angels then I can see the Ecclesiarchy flying off the top rope.
Sisters of Battle: *pulls out Power Chanclas* Do you?
The lion would perfectly understand why Guilliman took control. I mean the Emperor is incapacitated and Guilliman was the only one of the Emperor's loyal sons active in the Imperium so what else was Guilliman supposed to do? Leave control with the High Lords of Terra? I think the Lion will understand his motives and help him.
That's what I was thinking. Maybe a verbal 'confrontation', but the Lion will know that this is a product of circumstance. Is the Lion of the jealous sort? It would be ironic, given Luther's treachery...
Agreed. He’s not stupid. He’d immediately understand why gulliman is in charge, as there wasn’t anyone else to really entrust with it since the emperor is out of commission. He might want to co-rule since he’s back, whether it’s to help gulliman or to make sure he doesn’t have too much power now that there’s another primarch available, but he won’t be nearly as angry as people suspect.
It's pretty much this who else is there? The Lion isn't blind and stupid it will bne pretty obvious pretty quickly what a perversion the Imperium has become in the absence of the primarchs and their father.
Agree with your points. Plus i think the lion will be more than happy to leave guilliman to the politicking and admin while he goes off on crusade with the legion
@Hurnn1 :) this is what I see is going to happened
1) lion wakes up take charges of Cariban and his piss off about the codex astaste so he abolish it for his legion and reform his legion of old.
2) he learns the status of the Imperium and he is going to be piss off of the current affair and just like the Imperium secedus he wants Guillaman side of the story of why he is doing what he is doing what he does
3) they have a confrontation and of course the Imperium now have a 2 Primach that has arrived th news will travel quickly. But like last time the Lion will understand why Guillaman is doing what he is doing and knows how dire the situation is
3) this is where I think things are going to be tricky but I think the most logical and important I think Guillaman is going to remove the title of Imperium regent from Dante and give it to Lion and let the Lion crusade and take control of the dark Imperium. While Guillaman can focus dealing with the other side of the Imperium
4) in regards of the Ecclesiastes as much as they both going to hate it they realize that they are still not powerful enough to take on the Ecclesiastes just yet. What is more important crushing the religious worship or saving the Imperium of Men from extention? They know that if they tackle the Ecclesiastes it will lead to a civil war. Even taught they are 2 now they are now powerful enough to take on the Ecclesiastes just yet especially considering all the dangers they are facing.
5) the space wolf will have a much better relationship with the Lion than they have with Guillaman which will help bolster the unity of the empire.
I am actually convinced that the Lion is next to return. I am also thinking that the one that comes AFTER the Lion is Vulcan. This one is the next crucial one for two reasons
1) it will bring back humanity, is more than just machine to die but to actually cherish life. It will dramatically give a moral boost to Guillaman and to the Lion
2) this is the more important reason and I think this is going to be the most difficult but it is to bring back technological innovation. This is something that I don't hear much in theory crafting. Imagine how much stronger the Imperium becomes when they start innovating again instead of relying on relic of the past
Has everyone forgot that the last time The Lion saw old rowboat. He apologized for the Kurtz's incident and then solemnly swore to be his jailer. He did all of that AND was the one who came to the rightful conclusion that the Emperor was still alive. Pretty sure Girlyman and The Lion are on good terms.
On top of that I would expect the Lion to be utterly shocked and furious at the state of the Imperium.
Its the Lion so some suspicions will emerge about the breaking down of the legions and Guilliman role as regent. But I suspect both will work that out rather quickly, with the Emperor his intervention if necessary. Then the Lion with a reformed and strengthened Dark Angles legion can be unleashed on the foes of the Imperium while Guilliman finally gets to devote some time to do something about the Imperium itself.
Yeah but a little drama is gonna have to happen to keep us *engaged*.
People remember what they want
I'm with you. Maybe these two brothers who are good guys will do good guy and brother stuff like not be assholes to each other for little reason, when everything is on the line.
@Scott Webb Yeah, sounds right to me. Though, I don't think he'd need to use an excuse or anything. Imo, if the Lion wants to do a thing, Robute for the most part has no reason to stop him and no reason to desire to stop him. If the other chapters get mad cuz they wanna be a legion too, then fuck it. Whatever.
The Lion is fundamentally pragmatic beyond anything else; he is highly similar to the G-Man himself in many ways. I highly doubt he'd be so blinded by suspicions and superstitions that he'd oppose him, even though he introduced the first major advantages for the Imperium in millennia.
The Lion's pragmatic vision for what is needed to succeed in battle would overshadow his baseless suspicions of treachery.
He could also think that Guilliman tried this once with Imperius Secundus. Now with Big E and no brothers to stop him, he now is building two Imperiums at once.
@@KaiserAfini Funny you mention Secundus because if anything, that helped solidify Lion's trust for G-Man in my eyes. He was initially very suspicious, but after seeing G-Man essentially hand most power over to him & Sangy his fears were quelled immensely. Not to say he's buddy/buddy with G-Man right now, but Secundus served to make them even more trustworthy at the end of the day, imo.
There was a point when it really did seem like Lion, G-Man & Sangy against a galaxy of chaotic traitors.
He does not feel that pragmatic to me. He is quite extreme in his opinions, maybe not that black-and-white as Dorn, but in similar lines.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no That would've been an interesting alternate universe story. Terra falls to the hands of the traitors but Big E uses his last restort Warp Supernova mcguffin that he had Vulkan create and Chaos is dealt a serious blow. But it's nowhere near done for and the remaining heretics decide to go for the realm of Ultramar, where the Imperium Secundus stands in a valiant effort to preserve the Emperor's dream.
Remember the strategic skill of Guilliman. the easiest way to ease tensions would be for The Lion to be made War Master while Papa Smurf runs the buracracy. lion can't be suspicious if he is essentially handed the Imperiums military.
The Lion would recognize that at the end of the day, the role of government fits him poorly. He can do it-no doubt about that!-but the strength of Lion El'Jonson is leading soldiers into battle and handling the campaign's needed tasks. Guilliman is the statesman, who can handle the politics that creates and keeps the worlds behind him strong and vital. The Lion would agree that Guilliman is a superb general-not as good as him, but at their level that is the barest sliver of difference. But, when Imperial Secundus was formed, they chose the Lion to be the Warmaster and Guilliman to run the government for a reason.
Warm aster has a bad rep tho, so let's call my Primarch "general of the forces of the Imperium"
He was not built to rule he was built to wreck sh!t in the emperor’s name.
This is why he's better off leading the crusade in Imperium Nihilus while Guilliman manages Imperium Sanctus.
Lion and guillmen did mock battles against each other lion won the first 3 rounds before always losing against guillmen. Guillmen is the only primarch who doesn't care about military tradition and change strategies on the fly.
@@lordpfeiffer8490 I believe that was Guilliman and Corvus
I can see the lion taking his role as the Warmaster and being cool with everything other than the codex. The lion always plays to win.
Yes he does💪🏾
And honestly with gulliman regretting the codex, he might not even offer that much of a resistance to the Lion wanting it disbanded. He might wanna take a slower approach to it, but he’d prolly see it as reassurance that his doubts in the codex are valid and it is time to remove it.
Plot twist, the Lion returns to stop Angron, Cypher turns up with the Fallen and reveals himself to be Omegon, and the Fallen are actually a group of loyalist Alpha Legion. They aid G-man in stopping the World Eaters, G-man handles running the Imperium, the Lion become the new Warmaster and Omegon begins the clandestine removal of the Echlesiarchy
As a fan of all three of those legions and primarchs, I would love to see that
Got my vote
I kinda like that, the Alpha legion loyalists slowly infiltrating and replacing the Fallen would explain the connections between the two and why the Dark Angels were after the Alpha Legion during the Siege of Vraks.
Everyone expects the Lion to come back next, and here I am in my little corner, holding out hope for Clonegrim :(
Me waiting for Jaghatai like: :|
Fingers crossed that when daemongrim gets his model, he won't be far behind.
Me expecting the Second Legion....
waiting for corax🫠
This is too awesome to come to life, sadly.
I am of the opinion that, even if the Lion does not approve of Guilliman, he will be forced to accept it.
But not by the forces of Ultramar or even the high lords, but rather the Ten Thousand. He Himself has, as the Captain General testified, approved of Guilliman's selection. To go against His will is betrayal, and His guardians are the bearers of His voice.
Perhaps Valoris, perhaps Colquan, perhaps Valerian. They will not permit any backstabbing. This is not the Valdor's Custodians, these are Trajann's. They will intervene if blows are threatened, as it would threaten the Imperium and His majesty, which is the greatest of all heresies.
This need to be top comment
Pretty sure Bobby G was only selected because... I mean who else was there? The Lion is going to remember what happened with Horus and Bobby G and realize they're a big part of the reason why everything is fucked. We all know if The Lion was warmaster the Heresy wouldn't have happened the way it did. We also know if Bobby G wasn't such a cunt about secundus the emperor would still be alive. The Lion is loyal only to the Emperor. No one else.
Lion: I'm going to, hypothetically, punch you in your practical face.
Roboute: Brother please, not again.
Custodes: Lion El'Jonson, stand down, by the Emperor's Will!!
(The full might of the First legion's weapons activate against the Custodes)
Azrael: Fuck around, and find out, golden plated assholes.
Yeah, would love to see Trajanus step in the middle of two pissed primarchs. He will understand he is NO Valdor.
@@TheLostPrimarch2nd None of the Custodes are afraid of facing Primarchs. Sure, they might not want to, but they certainly wouldnt hesitate if they betrayed the Emperor.
Besides, if the Custodes themselves accuse the Lion of Heresy, they wont just have to deal with the ten thousand, but the whole imperium. Guilliman is in charge because the custodes vouched for him.
@@alek7998 Let's be honest, in between the Custodes and a Primarch, most people would choose a Primarch. If, by some strange mind-bending reason, the First Legion and the 10.000 fight.... Well, the Custodes will remember why they are bodyguards, not soldiers.
And Lion ain't giving a fuck. He is way past that point. Only Guilliman, or maybe Azrael, would be able to talk him about of it.
Guilaman isn’t the same “brother” that the lion would remember either here! While the lion has slept roboute has fought magnus and mortarion, AND has their fathers blessing’s. The custodes and the silent sisters are back in the war. It wouldn’t take the lion much to see that and he’d be impressed. The last loyal son taking the fight to ALL the traitor legions “FOR THE EMPEROR”
I think the Lion and Guilliman departed on good terms when they set out from Ultramar. Sure I don't think Johnson would appreciate the Codex and he might demand to have a legion at his command again but I don't think he'll outright attack Guilliman. Besides I'm sure he'll be told that Guilliman wasn't around that long. I expect the Lion to be more outraged at the state of the Imperium rather than Guilliman being in charge.
Plus the situations are not the same. During the heresy, Johnson thought that Guilliman was trying to carve out his own empire from their father's empire. This time he's in charge of their father's empire and it's because none of their brothers are around and their father is on that throne. There's also the fact that the Lion knows that Guilliman is loyal to their father and the Imperium now, so I can't see him reacting too violently. I think the Lion is smart enough to see that it makes sense for Guilliman to be in command of the Imperium.
why would he need to demand a legion ? he already is master of all the grandmasters of the unforgiven
This is all solved with a single phrase.
"Audience with the Emperor."
Why do people keep forgetting that the moment Big E talks to the Lion he'll just fall in line instantly? I mean hell Guilliman will even tell the Lion "talk to dad".
Exactly!
An important thing that Rho gets wrong is that Guilliman didnt make himself imperial regent,the Big E made him such.
And I think the Lion after talking with his father and seeing the results of the Indomitus Crusade would be accepting of his position.
Very excited for the reaction of the Dark Angels to the Lion's return...
Also, I think the Lion would see Guilliman holding the Emperor's Sword and be like "WTF?" but also "stealing that would have meant killing all of the Custodians. And there might be magic involved." Point is, the Emperor's Sword is a badge of office is there ever was one.
@@Elia-fn8jv Chapter Master Azrael: Asmodai, Interrogate!
Lion: What did you just say to me, son?
Chapter Master Azrael: Oh, sorry dad. Hair trigger for anyone that knows our secrets.
Lion: That seems a little suspicious, but okay.
Honestly, while there may be hostility at first, the solution is incredibly simple, one chat with the Emperor and everything is resolved. The Emperor assures Lion that this is not a power grab but a necessary measure and despite the appearances, Big E is still very much the head honcho. Hell, the Lion doesn't even need to go to Earth, the Emperor could simply possess Guilliman again and speak to Lion from a distance (though the Lion may want to still go to Earth to confirm that who he spoke to is indeed the Emperor and not some Tzeentch trick).
For sure. The first thing that Guilliman did was head to Terra so he could speak to the big E and I don't think the Lion would be any different. Guilliman would not be so stupid as to refuse him access, and the first thing the Emperor would tell El'Johnson is that he must work together with his brother.
I don't doubt there will be some struggle at first for plot purposes, but I don't think it will last until the final chapter of the book he returns in.
Welllll we still do not know if the Emperor is back or if the sheer amount of warp energy fluctuating during Roboute's fight with Morty allowed him to coalesce enough of his essence together to possess Guilliman
@@codycurtin2295 Guilliman also had a discussion with the Emperor in the throne room on Terra though, why couldn't the Lion do the some thing?
Agreed. There is absolutely no way the Emperor awakens the Lion just to have things go totally bad again.
Emperor (possessing Gulliman): "yes Lionel, I ordered Gulliman to command the Imperium, kill heretics and clapping Eldar cheeks and save some for me"
Guillman (waking up):" Did father say anything to me?"
Lionel: "Nothing of important brother... just carry on with your job."
I think that people underestimate how much Robute and the Lion actually do hold each other in esteem. They're brothers. Potentially the only two left. I think any reunion would be a happy one
Lion is not that caring of duty. His priority is loyalty. Duty is Guilliman's thing.
Also he SHOULD normally just accept Guilliman as Lord Regent because the Emperor sword is with G-Man, and that he would know that the sword wouldn't just be with him unless Emperor allowed it.
Unless the Lion is cuckoo this time
No. The lion is duty as well. That's why he was allowed on his own with little over sight becuase the emperor knew the lion would do what needed to be done.
I can see the Emperor coming down on the potential in fighting between Guilliman and The Lion. Seeing it was simply him not being involved caused the heresy. It's not sons needing their father but as 2 powerful generals with powerful independent forces. Logically speaking there's bound to be conflict if 2 independent forces that are on the same side don't adhear to a greater power.
Anyone having trouble with the audio
if the emperor told him to accept Papa Smurf, El'Jonson might accept him
No "might" at all.. He would accept it immediately.
But if Roboutte is regent, and better in social standings and delegation.. The Lion should be Commander of Battle.. General of the armies of the Imperium.. Coz we know he's way better at fighting and tactics than his brother
@@bassjunkie85 more like he is better at fighting and quick mid battle decisions. Guilliman is still better at general tactics.
@@AlphaOmegon who holds your fielty, cousin?
@@AlphaOmegon and what of The First have you read?
There's a lot of talk about how Lion will react to Guilliman's new role, but I don't see any discussion about how Guilliman could react to Lion returning?
In their meeting on McCragge, Robute is portrayed almost like a meet younger brother seeking the approval of a hard-to-please older brother in Lion. We see how worried Robute is about how smart Lion's legionaries are and of the Space Wolves' behaviour potentially embarassing him. Unbeknownst to him at the time, Lion was simply looking for a reason to kill Robute and, by his own estimation, basically found one (Sanguinius' timing couldn't have been better).
Now I wonder if Robute, weary and emotionally hardened from being the only surviving loyalist Primarch, getting killed by demon Fulgrim, being resurrected and forced into a leading role in a galaxy that now worships the Emperor (which must sting seeing as he was sent to bomb Monarchia for this _exact_ reason, knocking over the first domino that led to the Heresy), fighting Mortarion and the Death Guard, helping other legions fight against the Tyranids and running the Primaris programme, all while trying to prevent the Lords of Terra from _completely_ screwing things up... that he might _not_ be so welcoming to a returned Lion (given how his brother treated him the first time)? Especially if it's Lion who become softer towards Robute, I think it would be a very interesting interaction.
Naw, I think Guilliman would be overjoyed to have another loyalist Primarch back. Someone to help him shoulder the immense strain of the job ahead. Being able to have someone to trust, not to mention someone on his “level” to talk to and confide in.
Would be interesting though. Lion returns to a jaded Roubute, angry at the state of the Imperium only to get snapped back at with " I died Lion el. What is your excuse for slumbering while our father's works where undone?"
'The First of the First does not bow to lesser!'
The Loyalty of the Lion is to the Emperor of Mankind and the Dream of humanity as envisioned by him,
the current Day Empire is a travesty of this vision there are no grounds to compromise on.
Anything less than a direct intervention of the Emperor in whatever shape or form would make the Lion budge.
'Loyalty is its own reward.'
I feel like a good way to reconcile the two primarchs would be having the lion spend some time with his chapters, learning about the state of the imperium, before his meeting with his brother. Sort of how we saw roboute coming to terms with the state religion and different state of the imperium. Realizing the world they left, isn't the one he's returned to, and perhaps even seeing their fathers semi divine state might make him more understanding.
Agreed. Give the Lion some time to realize the kind of world his brother has been living in for the past decade, and then have their meeting. Obviously, once Guilliman learns that the Lion is alive, he will rush to meet ASAP, but it will still take him time to get there, even if the Ruinous Powers didn't do everything in their power to keep the two brothers apart. Which you know they will-Guilliman is dangerous enough, as he has the genius and charisma to help get the Imperium up off its ass after ten thousand years, albeit slowly. Lion El'Jonson, the most incredible military mind among the Primarchs, who even Horus was scared of, is even worse.
I think the first encounter between the two will be very tense and could even end in some hands being throne, but the Lion is incredibly smart and will understand the position Guilleman is in and aid him. They are both loyal, so I can’t imagine the lion having a genuine reason to attack him or feel the need to take his place as regent.
Guilleman is designed for such tasks. Guilleman can build and run an empire as easily as the Lion can whip up a battle plan that destroys an enemy. And both are smart enough to realize they both are needed
I don't know why people think the Lion is that stupid... He is smart and pragmatic, after meeting Guilliman he would see how burdened he is by the task in front of him. I genuinely think that Guilliman will cry in private after meeting the Lion. He wants another brother back so that hope could be restablished for the wider imperium. He woudn't even question apointing Johnson as WarMaster so that both would share the burden of carrying the imperium. I hope the writers will not just make the Lion an idiot and just demand that Guilliman would abdicate so that he will be the regeant... This shoudn't even be a situation that the Emperor has to mediate. The story right now doesn't need a imperial civil war with all the shit that transpires in the Galaxy as a hole.
I think I would like to see him come back a broken primarch. All the loss and betrayal just before his nap, would mess a man up. This would give him the ability to grow, yet still be pissed off enough to do a whole lot of damage to Luther and chaos
Damn i feel absolutely honoured by your putting up my wee speed paint as your thumbnail :D you sir are a legend!
Guilliman tells him to speak with daddy. Daddy tells him little brother will remain Imperial Regent because that was what he was made for, but he will be Warmaster from this point forward because that is what he was made for.
I would imagine that Lion would at first think that Guilliman has seized power and leaves to confront him. But once he stands before his brother he doesn't see a prideful, gloating ruler but rather a weary brother burdened by his responsibility and the state of the Imperium that his actions partially helped to create. I think the the Lion would still be weary of Guilliman to an extent, but perhaps Guilliman will appoint him as Warmaster as a check to his own power and influence and to reassure El'Johnson and the High Lords that he does not intend to seize the throne from the emperor.
You know I really hope those making the live action movies watch all Warhammer UA-cam channels especially this video of yours, it will undoubtedly help them. Great video
I see the return of Lion’El a necessary thing. The Emperor will explain it to him. Guilliman and El’Jonson compliment each other. Guilliman is the infrastructure guy, the logistics guy. If anyone can build up and manage the Imperium, and coordinate the incomprehensible numbers in its defense, it’s Robute. Meanwhile, Lion’El is a campaigner. If anyone can spearhead the crusades needed and lay low the Traitor Primarchs, Orc Warbosses, and Necron Phaerons with the fury of a Primarch, Lion’El is a damn good name to toss.
Oh to see Abby the despot shit his terminator plate looking across the field and seeing the Lion stalking him with murderous intent? Please grant me that!
I could see the Lion taking on the Necrons or/and a specific Traitor Legion's return being the reason for him to come back. I think that will be the case for several specific threats and Primarchs. Leman Russ to deal with Ghazghul's WAAAGH and bring the Fruit of the Tree of Life to the Emperor, and Dorn coming to stop a Tyranid hive fleet on it's way to Terra, Corax to deal with Lorgar and the Word Bearers, the Khan comes back to fight the Dark Eldar and Fulgrim, Vulkan to put an end to the nids when the Salamanders find all his artifacts.
Loving the Lion content! The purrfect Primarch….. Keep it coming chief!
Interesting to watch this now that it's been announced that the Lion is back.
Honestly I just see the meeting as the lion going all hot and bothered to demand the dealio before seeing Roboute all tired and worn who just gives a massive grin a bearhug and gives the lion full command of all the armies of the imperium to (including his own beloved ultramarines) and it is just a bit heartwarming moment as the lion will smile for the first time ever.
But then.. I am an optimist
Wrong universe for optimism but id love to see it 👌
The Lion will be in shock. how much the Emperial has fallen so hard. he will team up with Gulliman and go after the fallen.
No, i think The Lion says "fuck the fallen, look people we got compromised, that shit happens on planets with chaos taint we did not know about chaos influence at the time, let's not waste so much manpower and materials for low return missions to cover for something that happened 10k years ago, let's be more productive."
@@Abb0able they will both be fighting for Emporer Dream. The Lion will be shocked of the state of the wider imperial. He will also probably sort his own Chapter out and fit all the shit that's grown over time. Now we just need Russ
Im sure if the lion returns he would not be the same primarch as we knew him from the heresy. Same goes for all of the remaining loyalist brothers. It would fair well in the current setting to have atleast a change in their mindset and behavior. Even Gman has changed significantly since being revived.
I thought you articulated your thought process extremely well on the subject. My thoughts are simply this. Does the Lion still believe in his father and the Imperium after the HH? I think that question is what I want answered the most and it will provide insight into his interaction with Guilliman. Does the Lion come back and see the absolute disarray the Imperium currently is in and decides bickering with who should lead it be a better course of action? Or does he return and UNDERSTAND that Guilliman had to make do with what he has, realizes none of his other loyal brothers are around to help, and decides to put the welfare of the Imperium before his issues with Guilliman. I hope to see more Primarch interaction in the future because they are the main reason I got into Warhammer. Cheers to the Lion's hopeful return!
I think IF the Lion returns intially he gonna beat the crap out of smurfy. Then as Custodes break them up, his fathers sword will speak to the Lion upon touching it telling him "This is the path to follow my loyalist of sons, serve your brother as you would serve me and if my sword rejects him, slay him." and after about a weeks recovery Guilliman will put forth his plans to restore their fathers dream. The Lion WON'T be happy BUT he is his fathers ever faithful son and will do his duty leading the campaign while Smurfy keeps putting the imperium back in order (an unending task). I also Foresee a third loyal son being returned to his Red legion in good health and dropping by soon after. 3 loyal sons to face many disloyal ones isnt fair, but what a story of struggle THAT would be to fight to the last and in the PRIMARCHS darkest hour the father returns to put his house in order.
The lion? In current Imperium? Now that's a series
Nobody envies Guilliman that much paperwork.
Wouldve loved to see a TTS covering the Lions return
Now we get this question answerd❤
How great would it be to get Wolf 🐺 and Lion 🦁 comeback to take fight back to enemies. That would be dark days for Xenos and Chaos.
LJ: Who died and made you in charge!?
RG: No one and dad.
I think a lot of how the Lion views and interacts with Roubute will depend on how he takes in everything that's changed, the fact that they're the only 2 (possibly at the time, we'll see) loyal Primarchs left, the Primaris, the Imperial cult (how he'll love that) and so much more. I could see him definitely having a chip on his shoulder but also seeing that Guilliman has made the best of a shit situation and the fact that there are now two Primarchs it may be useful to have on on either side of the Great Rift given that crossing can be such a costly affair. On top of everything though, Johnson will absolutely want to see the Emperor and how that plays out could very well be what sets him on his path. Right now there's just too many variables to to o much more than wildly speculate...which is fun to do! :D
He went to Macrage during the Heresy to for fill his Emperor given role to eradicate completely those who transgress against him, he landed with an Honour Guard first to ascertain what Guilliman's Intentions were in his Empire building but with his full Legion strength ready if he proved to have turned from their Father
I would think the Lion would offer his sword to Guilliman and say "use me well". Situations change. I'm no expert in lore, but the way I see it, in combat, the Lion is all intuition, but outside of combat, rather practical and thoughtful, ruled by that intuition. I understand the need to keep characteristics intact, but after thousands of years of life, you'd think a primarch would slowly change and come into a state of wisdom. Eventually you would have to stop being a man-child and come to terms with reality. I mean, super hormonal soldiers with god-like egos, written for edgy teenagers is cool and all, but really, grow up a little.
The Lion, at the end of the day, is a servant, in the vein of a samurai. Samurai loosely translated to English is "Those that serve". Loyalty is all, because that is his Truth. He needs to dedicate himself to something to be fulfilled. He'd need verification of course, because I don't see him being fooled twice with a would-be new Emperor, but after that, he knows the strengths and weakness of both Guilliman and himself. He'd probably welcome the chance to become the Warmaster that he was denied, as he is the practical choice for Warmaster. As Guilliman is the practical choice for the administration/leader role.
Perhaps a little less Grim-derp then usual, but our society is changing. Zombie films and series of the last 20 years or so were a product of how our society was being perceived, and they have run their course and are in a decline. As society is slowly changing to a more right-wing stance, GW would do well to take this into account and change to keep things profitable.
the Lion has not lived for thousands of years, he does not have that experience, like Guilliman he's been in deathlike stasis
The EMPEROR of Mankind would tell his 2 sons to EQUALLY to run the Imperium
I would love them to look at one another and rather than fight....embrace each other....knowing that both have literally died and come back....then just say 'i am going hunting' and walk out...
The Lion will finally get what he wanted, to become the Imperial Warmaster.
There was a leak a few years ago that confirmed every primarch released so far. With the next up being the wolf.
I think the Lion and Guilliman are the perfect pair. Guilliman on the logistical and administrative side acting as Lord Regent and the Lion as Warmaster, commander of all the Imperium military forces.
These are Primarchs, they are brilliant and they would recognize and know this.
That combo would make the Imperium next to unbreakable.
I believe you are 100% right. Also I believe that Cypher is actually Alpharius and when he returns the Lions sword the truth will shown to the Lion that Alpharius was always loyalist. With that done, Alpharius will never have a legion again, but I could see him becoming an advisor the Lion. The only Primarch with an ego small enough to allow him to be an advisor is Alpharius and he would compliment the Lion perfectly!
Considering the Imperium is divided in two, and desperately needs two leaders regardless - I actually don't think there would be much of a direct conflict. Guilliman is desperate to cross the Great Rift and start putting things in order. He would be willing to give up a lot of his power on Terra to a brother in order to get the work properly started, or would be willing to delegate the next Crusade to a loyal brother while bending himself to the task of supporting them as best he can.
I could see Guilliman asking El'Jonson to take up the mantle of Warmaster, and carry their father's sword across the rift both figuratively and literally.
I imagine it will start tense, and guilliman both having endured the decades/centuries of being surrounded by people who not only don't remember, but actively reject, the Imperiql truth, shows a more sensitive side to the lion. Where at first he is cautious, but as he sees hesitance by the lion, guilliman basically goes "big bro I've missed you!!!" And hugs him like vulkan
Lion "how could you?"
Guillimen while trying to hold back a hive tyrant "We got bigger problems right now"
Between the fallen, Luther, each traitor primarch being nearly out and about. And whatever "Subject XI" is locked away on Terra. It makes you wonder how the brothers will react to state of affairs. The Lion is pragmatist after my own heart. And Guiliman has taken his lumps due to his return. So who knows?
Cypher (Alpharius) will sort them out if the Lion and Guilleman get silly.
@@kccustodes2618 That's indeed possible.
@@willsword8100 This one idea is growing with me more and more, Cypher is Alpharius and Alpharius is loyal. Dorn killed Omegon pretending to be Alpharius because the two traded identities without even the Alpha Legion knowing. Alpharius is working / helping Valdor as Valdor goes about his mission from the Emperor to create that big ass specialized army he is apparently making. I believe that Alpharius has for the last 10k years been doing the Emperors will, behind the scenes, the sword in the darkness, all without ego.
@@kccustodes2618 It makes you wonder just where the state of play is going.
@@willsword8100 I started with 40k in the 90's and left, returned, left again, returned, etc. because nothing ever changed. The game suddenly feeling not static has pulled me back in this time. Sadly the other side of the game (rules/costs/etc) has gone out of crazy.
I'm expecting (if he returns) for him to actually lurk in the shadows and not reveal himself to the imperium, maybe even his sons initially. To see if the imperium he now exists in is anywhere near the same as he was building or if it is so beyond redemption that he would start assembling a plan to eradicate all he deems as treasonous to the notion of the Original Imperium. The millennia asleep dreaming very strange and dark dreams of events both real and unreal forcing him to get a broader and more detailed image of the new present
One thing is sure, after the Lion had an audience with his father, and see him in his current state, there Will be hell to pay, and the enemies of the imperium Will remember the Lions wrath again, as they Will be hunted down and purged.
This hits different now
I'll stick to what Ulvurul Heoroth in Prospero Burns describes as each of the surviving loyalist Primarch's Wyrds:
One to be the heir to the Emperor's Throne: Guilliman
One to command the armies: The Lion
Lion:.....gimme daddy's sword
I thing there will be no bad blood in the moment when Gulliman ask him to lead Imperiums army. Imperium have someone to lead it ... now it needs someone to fight for it. And there is noone better then Lion ( maybe loyal Peturabo with his new homeworld of Krieg :D )
Guilliman was designed to be a god tier statesmen, the lion would likely know this and accept him as regent since lets be honest The imperium kinda needs a rework that only a demigod with the power of accounting and legislating really really good could provide and he can’t Rework the crumbling rotted infrastructure of the imperium WHEN HE’S ALSO LEADING CRUSADES SO THE IMPERIUM ISN’T EATEN BY HELL
Lion kicks open the door in anger "Brother, I have come to
sees Guilliman's face having run the tattered remains of the Empire
"give you a hug?"
I would like to see that the tensions between Lion and Gullimen get so bad Gullimen goes/is summoned to the Emperor, Lion storms in and they have an argument in front of The Emperor and in a flash the Emperor uses what psyker powers he has to manifest a ghost to chastise his sons and remind them of the bigger picture that their tainted brothers are lurking in the warp and chaos is rising and unless they bury what grudge they had they will fall along with everyone else, so the ghost fades and the brothers bury the hatchet to work together to save the imperium. I mean that's what I would like.
Still I'm surprised by how human the primarchs are, that despite being literal super human's, they are still human. Lion seems like a decent Primarch as well as Vulkan. Much like how I like Captain Titus (I know he's a lieutenant but he will always be a Captain, Leandros is solely to blame for his demotion , may chaos take him) , he seems to care about humans. But still I've always like the loyalist Primarchs and thought if it was possible to cleasn and even bring the traitor's back.
The Emperor come to Johnson in a dream which goes on to wake him.
man when i cry or raise my voice i get scolded but the lion gets to vent by stabbing his brother with a sword, not fair
I think that he would leave Gulliman as Imperial Reagent but take the mantle of Lord Commander. Would like to know what he made of Cawl and the primaris
Calling it now - Lion comes back and guilleman names him new warmaster...
Lion and Guilliman are on fine terms and retain some respect for eachother, the Lion may not agree with the division of the Legions, but he wouldn't make a massive deal about a problem that's 10 thousand years too far gone.
The Lion should absolutely have a period of "wtf is going on?" But he and Guilliman should absolutely trust eachother, despite and disagreements, we've already had their whole mistrust character arcs, Guilliman should have faith in the Lion as he did in Ruinstorm and Lion should have some trust in Guilliman.
They've already been through this whole song and dance, the parallels between Unremembered Empire and the current setting, shouldn't just lead to a repeat of Lion and Guilliman not trusting eachother, instead it should reflect how far they've both come, how things have changed, and how they will move forward together without the need of Sanguinius to mediate between them.
I read the Horus Heresy Primarchs book about The Lion. "Some men need recognition..Some men.. Do not" -The Emperor
I believe when the brothers meet if Guilliman tells the Lion that their Father gave him his sword and gave him the job of Imperial Regent. I think the Lions sense of duty above all else will make him see that they both have a job to do.
bigilman could appoint lion as imperial reagent to appease his doubts about his loyalty
I don't think the Lion would be particularly for or against Guilliman and the Imperium. So long as he is aware that the Emperor still remains in charge he'll do as he's always done, take the First out into the dark and kill some monsters.
I imagine a massive crusade led by the Dark Angels into the Imperium Nihilus, hunting down Chaos strongholds and Xeno worlds wherever they can be found whilst Guilliman and Cawl desperately try to use the time the Lion is buying them to finish the pylons that would mend the rift.
Wrathful Lion returns, sees Girlyman has the place propped up and is patching the holes; so Lion gathers up his legion (DA & the Successors Gang), goes out the back door into nihilus and stomps some choas ass looking for Luthor.
Lord Regent, and lord general (not warmaster). Use their emperor given talents in the most efficient way.
I never like how the legions and primarchs were separated. Each legion should have been an amalgamation of every Legion type and used efficiently. The difference on how the lion would use ravenguard, or corax would use deathguard or white scars. Roboute with some iron warriors would just be a black hole for the enemy a wall of logistics and seige experts. While he gets ravenguard infiltrating, Iron fists building the lines, white scars running skirmishes.
And I think loyalties would be more spread out . There is primarch gene father, there is your primarch Legion general, your gene brothers, and your battle brothers. Would make playing one off the other more difficult I think
El'Jonson can probably accept that Guilliman is regent since he knows empire building is his specialty. He will want control of the military though since he's the superior strategist, just as in Imperium Secundus. And he will probably act very autonomously as do the Dark Angels and their successor chapters. The galaxy is a big place though, there's more than enough space for two loyalist primarchs.
Either way; I think we can all agree. that Lion should get a moment with current-era Big E and hear the greater plan from big E and then hear Guil's version of the plan so they can both talk it out and if needed change "merge" what they got from big E so they can say "Hey, we're doing our best to make sense of Pops' current self and we brothers are the ones best fit for that understanding after all we are still very much human and yet are very much our father's sons."
Would also love to see what the Lion thinks of Grey Knights personally. I think he would be oddly pleased.
8 months ago, oh my how this feels
if jonson goes to the emperor and talks with him he will accept it without any word back
pretty sure he will however goe against the codex and rebuild his legion with aproval of the emperor
Out of all the other loyalist Primarchs that could return, Lion is the one that Guilliman should fear least insofar as having his actions judged. It isn’t that I think Dorn or Sanguinius, etc, would be upset, but that the Lion is the most pragmatic out of the group. Guilliman came back to an Imperium that is worshipping his father - who has been indisposed - and is getting wrecked on all sides by Chaos, Necrons, Eldar, Tyranjds, etc. Whatever leadership the High Lords or Ecclesiarchy are providing, it isn’t even close to enough. Not to mention, the rift has essentially split the Imperium in half.
No, the Lion would see immediately that Guilliman needed to take charge. He may even think Guilliman didn’t go far enough. The Lion is no dumbass, whatever issues with power and control there may come, it takes a back seat to getting the Imperium back on better footing.
It would be really cool if the Lion and Gulliman had a reunion. I.e Unremembered Empire mk2.
Curze should come back somehow and force the Lioness to rise from his slumber for some more kickass duels.
When the Lion comes back he’s gunna have the same talk with Big E like Robute did.
The Lion will probably be somewhere in between, Guilluman's got his hands full and then some. The Lion will probably end up in a role of high commander or something using all the forces at hid command. He won't just be using his legion, but all the different chapters like Guilluman did. He's see some value in the codex but he'll probably have a mock legion just to look legel.
Lion will probably be handling things over at nihilus while rob handles things on the other side of the rift
Well for one guilliman has been fighting for the emperium longer and has died for it already. And guilliman trying to give it up would spark a desire to help him out but his willingness to give it up makes him the best suited to run the emperium
Can you tell me in which books the lion is returning?
There's another reason for a slightly different Lion - the long aeons 'asleep'. It's been said in several places that Guilliman has been changed by the long time in stasis, that his ego has mellowed a bit, that he's become more thoughtful. There's a possibility that the Lord of the First is likewise altered somewhat.
If the Lion returns he won't be jumping to conclusions Azrael, Belial, Ezekiel etc will have alot to tell him and he'd want to learn as much as possible about what's been happening in the imperium in his absence.
personally, I do not think the Lion would even place Gulliman's shenanigans in his top 10 to do list. What he has been consistent over the time we have known him is that what he wants does come first. Luther and the Fallen are the first thing he would focus on dealing with. only after that would he even consider meeting Robute.
this
No sound? Mobile, checked media volume etc.
Edit: Must have been a glitch, now have sound
Is it just me or does this vid have no audio tried to watch this on 2 phones already and no audio
Ok so this analysis completely ignores the character growth of The Lion during the Unremembered Empire arc. He already changes a LOT by the time that he and Guilliman decide to assist Sanguinius in reaching Terra. A LOT. He learns the ability to express himself to those two truly and honestly and is apologetic. During the attempt of their respective fleets to reach Terra he also learns more and more about his two brothers and where he may compromise and cooperate. It is he that comes to crucial decisions to allow either of his brothers to move forward in the ways they see fit. He develops a truly elder brother relationship with these two that is definitely still growing and sometimes intense but also respectful of their perspectives and allows him to be more flexible in his choices. He becomes more of a team player and admits to potential flaws in his judgement. Something he also does in his own Primarch novel. I truly think the already logical course of a reunion of Guilliman and The Lion is one of cooperation based on who The Lion already became before he fought Luther. They would definitely argue and not see eye to eye on all matters. There's probably several easy points of contention but none that would truly threaten to make them enemies. I suspect The Lion would also aid Guilliman in trying to alter the decay of Imperial Society into the dark theocracy it has become. And of course he will want to address the problems of his own Legion. I doubt The Lion will be best pleased with many of their actions over the last 10 millennia. Of course some writer could screw all that up by giving him amnesia or something as a result of his last battle and a bunch of that character growth is conveniently removed so they can make him a real asshole. I wouldn't be surprised.
yeah same here no way the lion will be suspicious of anything.... super practical man. its like you been deal this hand work with it. Also the G-man already spoke to the emperor so yeah its a given he would be the imperial regent! Lion will have no choice but to follow.
Where's the sound? Only this video?
I'm more interested to see which Daemon Primarch The Lion will true death first.
Is anyone else not getting sound on the video??
The Lion won't be upset at Robute for long, he'll understand that the Imperium was on the verge of collapse and that he had to do it.
What if the Lion wasn't of sound mind after 10 000 years in stasis ? What if he was about to lead a crusade against the Fallen as a stern, almost completly silent (I mean even more than before) and way too angry version of himself ? To put things simply, what if the newly awakened Lion had become more like his 40th millenium's chapter rather than the Heresy one ?
That Lion could totally not give a damn about anything other than his very own (self imposed) mission, for a few years at least.
I can totally see the Lion becoming a hero of the Imperium Nihilus long before meeting Guilliman.
In fact, maybe the two of them will only meet after other loyalist primarchs have come back... I mean, I kinda feel like all of them could come back in one form or another, Sanguinius possessing Dante or some other Blood Angel, Russ coming back from the warp as a half-wulfen monstrosity and the Squats telling they had a backup of Ferrus Manus' mind in their computer, ready to dowload in a mechanical body. 😂😅
Lion will be pissed about the legions until Guilliman admits he was wrong
SANGUINIUS: THE PRIMARCH WE NEED NOW!
SECUNDUS AGAIN
He will be like Dorn and build a bridge to get over it.