I literally recall back in the year 2000 stumbling upon the top warrior in EverQuest. I'd heard the name, I knew who he was, but then I randomly saw him. He was AFK, which gave me a chance to creepily stare in awe and inspect his amazing looking gear, while wondering how incredible the stats must be. He had stuff I'd never seen before and it looked awesome. This gear was better than even the epic weapons available at that time. This was equipment that no one else had on any server and I had the ultimate "That guy is awesome, I want to get that gear" moment. So to me, cosmetics matter. They matter just as much as the actual stats. If you allow cosmetic purchases, you RUIN half of the purpose of an MMORPG. You dilute the achievement of looking like a rockstar and the journey of getting there. As a passionate gamer, that is an absolute travesty and we won't have it. We want to go make memories killing a dragon with our buddies at 2am. Then we're gonna cut the dragon's eyeballs out and make some AMAZING looking gear with sweet stats then quickly proceed to the nearest social hub and act like we're the baddest dudes that ever lived. That's the adventure we want and it doesn't have anything to do with swiping a credit card. Appreciate the coverage again :) - Josh Side note: multiple copies of the game, subscriptions, etc... we don't really care too much. We think if we build a great game, people will support that in whatever way that makes sense to them.
I 100% agree with diluting the achievement of getting there. I think if gear is going to look amazing you should have to do something other than dual-wield a Visa and a Mastercard to get there. Personally, I often wear gear that suits my character in a game with transmogs. In FFXIV I wear level 65 gear (appearance) when the cap is 90. In Archeage my gear was Level 30 transmog (when not covered by a cosmetic). I think it might be a refreshing change and a throwback to yesteryear where the gear you wear looks like gear you are wearing.
Brad McQuaid never got a chance to pass his torch to anybody, so now it's stuck in the ground only dimly lit compared to what it used to be. Time for you to pick it up, my friend.
I despise micro transactions. I do NOT want them in the game. The only exception to this is things like cosmetic items that go inside a player house or something restricted to a private space. Vanilla WoW is my preferred ideal. I'd much rather pay a higher monthly rate than have a lower quality game.
I agree that Box Price + Monthly sub is probably the best way to do it. I could understand if they want to have some minor stuff for your private area (as long as you can show that area off and it not be locked) then that is fine for an additional source of income.
Yes. This is the game. I'm going to do a more in-depth look and review of the game in the near future. This one was more another one of the MMORPG topics as opposed to game coverage.
The inclusion of microtransactions in MMORPGs undermines the core principles of fairness, balance, and immersion inherent to the genre. By allowing players to bypass traditional progression mechanics through financial transactions, the sense of accomplishment derived from in-game challenges is compromised. Additionally, the introduction of microtransactions fosters an environment of imbalance and disparity among players, detracting from the sense of camaraderie and fairness within the community. Moreover, these transactions disrupt game balance and economy, leading to a scenario where those who can afford to spend more gain a disproportionate advantage. Ultimately, the imposition of microtransactions primarily serves to augment profitability for developers and publishers, rather than enhancing the player experience. Thus, it is imperative to advocate for the preservation of fairness, balance, and immersion in MMORPGs by refraining from the integration of microtransactions.
I loved the Everquest 2 days before micro transactions. Monthly subscription fee = Play good and often to win. Especially with a lot of the rarer items being bound. Even if you used a 3rd party black market site, it would just give you gold. Since most top-tier items were bound, the gold didn't do much for you.
We were talking about that today on my Twitch show. How do you make an MMORPG in today's day and age that people will 1) play daily but also 2) doesn't penalize you if you can't play every day. The year 2024 has so much more entertainment available than the year 1997 did. Back in the 90s the only thing you did was play MMORPGs. Now people do much non MMORPG stuff that I don't envy developers for the choices they have to make.
That is very true. A few years ago I stopped playing Archeage and started playing a mobile game called Brawl Stars. A good portion of this was because I could play it anywhere I was... on break at work, at home, on the train, ect. The other portion was due to the slow increase in micro transactions across nearly all MMORPGs.
I think that microtransactions are okay in a limited manner, such as: 1) Paid services that don't directly affect gameplay such as server transfers and name changes (with conditions). 2) Accelerated catch up services. Many games don't "start" (we can discuss that aspect of game design elsewhere) until max level, and once a game has matured to the point that the majority of the player base is max level, new players aren't going to stick around if they don't have a less resistant path to the "fun" part of the game. 3) All "fashion" items (cosmetics, transmogs, whatever you want to call them) should be acquirable solely through gameplay. However, I'm okay with requiring a paid service to "activate" the appearance of the items (e.g. equipping them does not change your appearance unless activated). The details (per item vs blanket, periodic vs permanent, etc) are up for debate. Straight up cash for stats is a hard no. Anything that allows cash to bypass meaningful gameplay (circumstances outlined in point 2 are not, IMO, meaningful gameplay) is a hard no. I get it, companies need to make enough money to keep the lights on and pay its people. It's best for everyone if they can do so without milking their players like they're money cows, which is a concept that most companies either don't understand or just don't care about these days. Love you, J, glad you're back. o7
Yeah I think server transfers in MMORPGs need to stop anyway, since they are an issue. I rank server transfers up along side server merges and they are a bad idea. ua-cam.com/video/Qhiu6iZ4rAU/v-deo.html Name changes are ok, I guess, but it leads to a lot of account selling. Catch Up services you are spot on with why they are sold, and why they are a good thing, but that's a whole additional rabbit hole.
They're doing it right. If the game is good enough I'd sub anyway despite not being an altoholic. I've been talking about wanting to see more of the game for months now, so I'm glad we'll finally get to next month.
This is an important statement. I would subscribe to them if I really enjoy the product just because I want to help a small studio succeed. If the game is $1 per 1 hour of entertainment on the box price, I have no problem paying a sub each month as long as it maintains the $1 per 1 hour ratio.
I worry about the ability to keep funding an mmo past launch with only a box price. You would need a lot of new players consistently, which is often harder when there is an initial buy in to start playing, and an optional sub means a significant amount of the playerbase will likely not be paying that consistent revenue source. With rising costs/inflation and the consistent pricing of games rn, having two funding sources seems required. Especially since you are missing the whales which REALLY keep the lights on (good riddance though)
This is a very good point, and its something that I've thought (and spoken) about a lot over the years. A box price does increase the barrier to entry, which means you will get a lot less players given how many free-to-play options there are. An optional subscription means, exactly what you said, many people won't pay it. Have to hope they have a plan for how this is going to work out, or they have a plan for a constant steady stream release of DLC that is worth a few bucks that people are willing to pay for.
If there is ZERO pay to win and the money is helping to maintain and improve the game it's fine I guess, My main issue with micro transactions is that ususally the developer/pubisher just introduce them out of corperate greed.
thats cool that they dont have microtransactions, but what about the end game content, like raids, castle sieges, node sieges etc, like ashes of creation has?
I'm sorry if the point of this video wasn't clear. This wasn't a comparison video between Ashes of Creation and Eternal Tombs. In fact, this wasn't even an Eternal Tombs showcase, it was more a philosophy of Microstransactions and how one company making an MMORPG is doing it.
I used to be against this position; but over the years I've come to accept it. In an online game each user should have the ability to turn off store bought cosmetics. Let the people who paid money look how they want to look, but let the people who want to see what's really being worn see that.
I think a box price plus a sub is going to be the way to go. Their sub is optional unless you want alts, then you need to buy a second account or pay a sub. I really hope they can pull it off. Would be nice to see a game go back to Box plus sub.
MMORPG die like they have old models or pay models for cashgrab. No one have fun enymore with lootboxes. and no one have fun to play games 3years upwards, and after it the account and items die like they are at most account bound. there NFT will be bring back the MMORPG fun. like you can give the stuff out of hand and espicially when it is through selling, then devs get more income through royality of item sell, what is some passiv continus income instead old abbo modells.
So I will say I do see the value of having your in game items have a real world value (the NFT idea) however the moment people start playing MMORPGs for their job instead of for their hobby is when the genre is doomed. I know a small minority of people want the NFT model, but its never going to work.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork it work already and i play only this games now, one last except i did with hogwqrts legacy, and get rid of it again. The thing is there are always everytime 2 kind of player, the fun player like me and the hardcore gamer. And people ho work for it like you say, dont overcome the regular hardcore gamer.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork not for me :) i playd many hardcore grind games , the feeling of work is often given in there. So finally only like the possibility is given that someone can make the game to the own job, do not meaning that you have so. An on this way you woud still be on the fun path of the games , not in job / hard grind / competiv scene. Fot me like i say it already work, i play good games , that are enjoyable and can transver things i dont need enymore. I understand your way bit thats mine. And i dont like to have again 3 k value in dota2 and other games , that is rotten now like account bound etc. Some other people woud love to use the skins and stuff, no support from my side for this old cashgrab system
@@ParadoxGamingNetworkthanks ParadoxGaming for feedback i will pass on to the team. Does it just look/feel like that because of the crypto aspect on the website? They will redo website later. I will put in some suggestions 🙏
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork 🤣 forgot to say...they have a Channel on UA-cam and some community members doing closed alpha have been posting some gameplay 😀🫡
If we are talking actual "micro" transactions then yes! Not the price of a full on xpac per item and call it micro lol. I do not endorse P2W items at all. Housing//Cosmetic//P2Convenience. BDO I had to pay too much money for things like storage, and backpack space it's completely P2W when you have to stop farming and lose your spot to drop items cause your weight or space sucks.
BDO makes me laugh when looking back on it. They said no P2W but then sold the ghillie suit. I mean come on. Personally I think storage should be earned in game, backpack space should be earned in game. Anyone who played FFXI will know the horrors of Gobbie Bag IV V and VI. I'm in agreement with you about it being P2W because of having to stop to drop loot. 100% spot on. Thanks for sharing!
I literally recall back in the year 2000 stumbling upon the top warrior in EverQuest. I'd heard the name, I knew who he was, but then I randomly saw him. He was AFK, which gave me a chance to creepily stare in awe and inspect his amazing looking gear, while wondering how incredible the stats must be. He had stuff I'd never seen before and it looked awesome. This gear was better than even the epic weapons available at that time. This was equipment that no one else had on any server and I had the ultimate "That guy is awesome, I want to get that gear" moment.
So to me, cosmetics matter. They matter just as much as the actual stats. If you allow cosmetic purchases, you RUIN half of the purpose of an MMORPG. You dilute the achievement of looking like a rockstar and the journey of getting there. As a passionate gamer, that is an absolute travesty and we won't have it.
We want to go make memories killing a dragon with our buddies at 2am. Then we're gonna cut the dragon's eyeballs out and make some AMAZING looking gear with sweet stats then quickly proceed to the nearest social hub and act like we're the baddest dudes that ever lived. That's the adventure we want and it doesn't have anything to do with swiping a credit card.
Appreciate the coverage again :)
- Josh
Side note: multiple copies of the game, subscriptions, etc... we don't really care too much. We think if we build a great game, people will support that in whatever way that makes sense to them.
I 100% agree with diluting the achievement of getting there. I think if gear is going to look amazing you should have to do something other than dual-wield a Visa and a Mastercard to get there.
Personally, I often wear gear that suits my character in a game with transmogs. In FFXIV I wear level 65 gear (appearance) when the cap is 90. In Archeage my gear was Level 30 transmog (when not covered by a cosmetic).
I think it might be a refreshing change and a throwback to yesteryear where the gear you wear looks like gear you are wearing.
Brad McQuaid never got a chance to pass his torch to anybody, so now it's stuck in the ground only dimly lit compared to what it used to be. Time for you to pick it up, my friend.
I despise micro transactions. I do NOT want them in the game. The only exception to this is things like cosmetic items that go inside a player house or something restricted to a private space. Vanilla WoW is my preferred ideal. I'd much rather pay a higher monthly rate than have a lower quality game.
I agree that Box Price + Monthly sub is probably the best way to do it. I could understand if they want to have some minor stuff for your private area (as long as you can show that area off and it not be locked) then that is fine for an additional source of income.
Oh, so this is the game with the live game masters doing events and world changes live? Interesting.
Yes. This is the game.
I'm going to do a more in-depth look and review of the game in the near future. This one was more another one of the MMORPG topics as opposed to game coverage.
The inclusion of microtransactions in MMORPGs undermines the core principles of fairness, balance, and immersion inherent to the genre. By allowing players to bypass traditional progression mechanics through financial transactions, the sense of accomplishment derived from in-game challenges is compromised. Additionally, the introduction of microtransactions fosters an environment of imbalance and disparity among players, detracting from the sense of camaraderie and fairness within the community. Moreover, these transactions disrupt game balance and economy, leading to a scenario where those who can afford to spend more gain a disproportionate advantage. Ultimately, the imposition of microtransactions primarily serves to augment profitability for developers and publishers, rather than enhancing the player experience. Thus, it is imperative to advocate for the preservation of fairness, balance, and immersion in MMORPGs by refraining from the integration of microtransactions.
This response was a 10/10. Grinning Jack is a dragon spitting flames.
I loved the Everquest 2 days before micro transactions. Monthly subscription fee = Play good and often to win. Especially with a lot of the rarer items being bound. Even if you used a 3rd party black market site, it would just give you gold. Since most top-tier items were bound, the gold didn't do much for you.
We were talking about that today on my Twitch show. How do you make an MMORPG in today's day and age that people will 1) play daily but also 2) doesn't penalize you if you can't play every day.
The year 2024 has so much more entertainment available than the year 1997 did. Back in the 90s the only thing you did was play MMORPGs. Now people do much non MMORPG stuff that I don't envy developers for the choices they have to make.
That is very true. A few years ago I stopped playing Archeage and started playing a mobile game called Brawl Stars. A good portion of this was because I could play it anywhere I was... on break at work, at home, on the train, ect. The other portion was due to the slow increase in micro transactions across nearly all MMORPGs.
I think that microtransactions are okay in a limited manner, such as:
1) Paid services that don't directly affect gameplay such as server transfers and name changes (with conditions).
2) Accelerated catch up services. Many games don't "start" (we can discuss that aspect of game design elsewhere) until max level, and once a game has matured to the point that the majority of the player base is max level, new players aren't going to stick around if they don't have a less resistant path to the "fun" part of the game.
3) All "fashion" items (cosmetics, transmogs, whatever you want to call them) should be acquirable solely through gameplay. However, I'm okay with requiring a paid service to "activate" the appearance of the items (e.g. equipping them does not change your appearance unless activated). The details (per item vs blanket, periodic vs permanent, etc) are up for debate.
Straight up cash for stats is a hard no. Anything that allows cash to bypass meaningful gameplay (circumstances outlined in point 2 are not, IMO, meaningful gameplay) is a hard no. I get it, companies need to make enough money to keep the lights on and pay its people. It's best for everyone if they can do so without milking their players like they're money cows, which is a concept that most companies either don't understand or just don't care about these days. Love you, J, glad you're back. o7
Yeah I think server transfers in MMORPGs need to stop anyway, since they are an issue. I rank server transfers up along side server merges and they are a bad idea. ua-cam.com/video/Qhiu6iZ4rAU/v-deo.html
Name changes are ok, I guess, but it leads to a lot of account selling.
Catch Up services you are spot on with why they are sold, and why they are a good thing, but that's a whole additional rabbit hole.
They're doing it right. If the game is good enough I'd sub anyway despite not being an altoholic. I've been talking about wanting to see more of the game for months now, so I'm glad we'll finally get to next month.
This is an important statement. I would subscribe to them if I really enjoy the product just because I want to help a small studio succeed. If the game is $1 per 1 hour of entertainment on the box price, I have no problem paying a sub each month as long as it maintains the $1 per 1 hour ratio.
I worry about the ability to keep funding an mmo past launch with only a box price. You would need a lot of new players consistently, which is often harder when there is an initial buy in to start playing, and an optional sub means a significant amount of the playerbase will likely not be paying that consistent revenue source. With rising costs/inflation and the consistent pricing of games rn, having two funding sources seems required. Especially since you are missing the whales which REALLY keep the lights on (good riddance though)
This is a very good point, and its something that I've thought (and spoken) about a lot over the years.
A box price does increase the barrier to entry, which means you will get a lot less players given how many free-to-play options there are.
An optional subscription means, exactly what you said, many people won't pay it.
Have to hope they have a plan for how this is going to work out, or they have a plan for a constant steady stream release of DLC that is worth a few bucks that people are willing to pay for.
If there is ZERO pay to win and the money is helping to maintain and improve the game it's fine I guess, My main issue with micro transactions is that ususally the developer/pubisher just introduce them out of corperate greed.
I agree with this.
Often, its gluttony. Case in point WoW and FFXIV. They both do box price, plus sub, AND a cash shop on top of it.
thats cool that they dont have microtransactions, but what about the end game content, like raids, castle sieges, node sieges etc, like ashes of creation has?
I'm sorry if the point of this video wasn't clear. This wasn't a comparison video between Ashes of Creation and Eternal Tombs. In fact, this wasn't even an Eternal Tombs showcase, it was more a philosophy of Microstransactions and how one company making an MMORPG is doing it.
I have no problem with microtransactions that do not impact gameplay. Let me buy that awesome looking gear but don't give me an advantage for cash.
I used to be against this position; but over the years I've come to accept it.
In an online game each user should have the ability to turn off store bought cosmetics.
Let the people who paid money look how they want to look, but let the people who want to see what's really being worn see that.
Microtransactions are shit. Just take my montly Sub (+ box price)
Box Price + Monthly sub is the way to go.
bold claims. but it would be awesome to see them pull it off
I think a box price plus a sub is going to be the way to go. Their sub is optional unless you want alts, then you need to buy a second account or pay a sub.
I really hope they can pull it off. Would be nice to see a game go back to Box plus sub.
MMORPG die like they have old models or pay models for cashgrab. No one have fun enymore with lootboxes. and no one have fun to play games 3years upwards, and after it the account and items die like they are at most account bound. there NFT will be bring back the MMORPG fun. like you can give the stuff out of hand and espicially when it is through selling, then devs get more income through royality of item sell, what is some passiv continus income instead old abbo modells.
So I will say I do see the value of having your in game items have a real world value (the NFT idea) however the moment people start playing MMORPGs for their job instead of for their hobby is when the genre is doomed.
I know a small minority of people want the NFT model, but its never going to work.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork it work already and i play only this games now, one last except i did with hogwqrts legacy, and get rid of it again. The thing is there are always everytime 2 kind of player, the fun player like me and the hardcore gamer. And people ho work for it like you say, dont overcome the regular hardcore gamer.
I would disagree with you that its work already. Whenever I start to feel like a game is a job, I stop playing that game.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork not for me :) i playd many hardcore grind games , the feeling of work is often given in there. So finally only like the possibility is given that someone can make the game to the own job, do not meaning that you have so. An on this way you woud still be on the fun path of the games , not in job / hard grind / competiv scene.
Fot me like i say it already work, i play good games , that are enjoyable and can transver things i dont need enymore. I understand your way bit thats mine. And i dont like to have again 3 k value in dota2 and other games , that is rotten now like account bound etc. Some other people woud love to use the skins and stuff, no support from my side for this old cashgrab system
Look at a new game being developed called Domi Online. MMORPG..
No level cap
No skill cap
Free to play
Open Alpha to all to try
Absolutely zero pay to win.... That's the best part
I will look into that later today.
So went to Domi Online, no updates since 2023 and its a crypto game. Not really a good look for a game, even in Alpha
@@ParadoxGamingNetworkthanks ParadoxGaming for feedback i will pass on to the team.
Does it just look/feel like that because of the crypto aspect on the website?
They will redo website later. I will put in some suggestions 🙏
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork 🤣 forgot to say...they have a Channel on UA-cam and some community members doing closed alpha have been posting some gameplay 😀🫡
If we are talking actual "micro" transactions then yes! Not the price of a full on xpac per item and call it micro lol. I do not endorse P2W items at all. Housing//Cosmetic//P2Convenience. BDO I had to pay too much money for things like storage, and backpack space it's completely P2W when you have to stop farming and lose your spot to drop items cause your weight or space sucks.
BDO makes me laugh when looking back on it.
They said no P2W but then sold the ghillie suit. I mean come on.
Personally I think storage should be earned in game, backpack space should be earned in game. Anyone who played FFXI will know the horrors of Gobbie Bag IV V and VI.
I'm in agreement with you about it being P2W because of having to stop to drop loot. 100% spot on.
Thanks for sharing!