I think it's really funny that they got all offended about Aaron Turner calling it "thinking man's metal." I don't think he meant that it's exclusively for smart people. I think he just means that its music for introspection. Of course smart people can listen to whatever, but it's kind of hard to say you're going to have a deep, meditative, pensive experience listening to Cannibal Corpse or something like that.
I think THE OCEAN (formerly The Ocean Collective) are a band that deserves consideration as seminal in the genre because Robin Staps is a genius. They aren't a minor band, their discography consists of 6 masterpieces so far and their 7th studio album due out later this year is one of my most highly anticipated of 2017.
The Ocean are great. Sometimes they get a little too far away from Neurosis and into more pure prog territory, but they always seem to bring it back to that base. And their lyrics are fantastic. Comparing the depths of the oceans to types of mental despair. Copernicus' crisis of faith upon his discovery of that the solar system is heliocentric. Lots of stuff relating human experiences to the geological ages of (pre)history. Just a really smart band. All these bands are lyrically very deep and very intelligent, but the things The Ocean come up with are next level stuff!
It makes me cry that Rosetta didn't make this list. They are the bridge between the first and second waves of post metal. 3 genre-defining albums. Acclaim from their peers. They belong.
I think it's fair to say Deftones definitely has elements of post-metal, but alternative metal seems like a better fit. (since we're on the topic, that chart needs an update)
Still gives me chills when you acknowledge Raphael, Arthur, DeliciousDishes, and myself as the 4 horsemen of lock horns cause we've been here since the first episode 🤘🏻
I was glad to see John return for this episode. It's always nice to have a person that really knows the genre well and loves it. Hope to see him again sometime in the future.
Really annoyed that I missed this one. I find the term "post-metal" kind of irritating but there are a lot of great bands under this umbrella that are worth singling out. Skipping ahead and sneaking a peak at the chart, I'm glad you saw fit to put Godflesh at the roots; the post-Swans/Whitehouse industrial/noise-rock crossover scene of the '80s and '90s was fertile ground for heavy yet vaguely cosmic experimental music-Skullflower, Ramleh, Bodychoke, the list goes on; you could do a whole episode on "heavy noise-rock," to be honest-but Broadrick really was the one who took this massive sound into metal spheres as well as the sort of contemplative, highly dynamic places that it would go later.
Shocked noone mentionned the fact that members of ISIS and the vocalist from Deftones have a band together called Palms. Also, I saw Alcest last week and The Body opened for them. It was weird.
Yeah thought the same. Personally I could never get into Palms though... sounds good, but the compositions are just boring and unmemorable. Pretty disappointing :/
I think the reason Tool got brought up so much is because they're contemporaneous with both Neurosis and the early post-rock movement (bands like Stereolab, Slint, and Tortoise). They also borrow a lot of the elements of post-rock in their sounds (long, loose song structures, heavy use of textures, extreme loud-soft/light-heavy dynamic shifts, ponderous atmospheres, the occasional bit of electronics). I wouldn't call them a post-metal band though, because their roots are more grunge-y. Tool is a band that happens to sound like post-rock, but whose roots are actually more like shoving Green River into King Crimson. Post-metal proper is more rooted in that Neurosis style of atmospheric sludge. (On top of all that, post-rock itself borrows those elements from Shoegaze, as does math rock like Don Caballero and Minus the Bear)
You need Aaron Tuner's other bands up there: Old Man Gloom and Sumac. Also Minsk and Mouth of the Architect, otherwise good list was very happy to see this style acknowledged.
neuroisis85 you listed 3 amazing bands that were not even mentioned especially since old man gloom and sumac are almost supergroups. I love mouth of the architect but they are sadly under appreciated.
One of my favorite genres! Glad you guys are talking about it. At some point will you discuss some of the newer 'shoegaze' metal genres that have become popular in the mainstream outlets these last 5 years? Bands like Alcest, Deafheaven, Les Discrets, (by association) Drudkh, Fen, Lantlos, Lifelover, Ameseours, Todglitcher, Autumn For Crippled Children and Wolves In The Throne Room? I realise they get lumped as 'hipster' metal nowadays, but I feel they they've come to represent a mixture of genres that would have been unthinkable even 8 years ago. On top of being a large jumping off point for some of the more ' politically questionable' european extreme metal bands as well (Peste Noire, Germ, etc)
Luka Calle Peste Noire are politically loathsome but their music is fantastic. That being said, as you are probably well aware, they did go on to cover atmospheric black and blackgaze in later episodes, and DSBM has been on the docket for quite some time, so you did ultimately get your wish on that front.
Post Metal = If early '70's Pink Floyd wanted to make sludge metal basically.. (Meddle, Set The Controls For The Heart Of the Sun, Careful With That Axe Eugene etc..) with lyrics that talk about the ocean. lots of ocean references used as metaphors haha
I think Deftones are a band that likely got a lot of people into post metal, they certainly were for me, but they fit more as shoegaze+alt metal rather than post rock but heavier.
Callisto, Rosetta, The Ocean, Amenra, Breach, Old Man Gloom, Intronaut, Mouth of the Arcitect, and others like these are still big names, they should have grabbed for the board. not new at all considering how young the genre is especially breach (CoL mentioned them and Callisto a lot as influences for them)
I think Callisto should at least be mentioned. True Nature Unfolds and Noir are great albums. Providence gets more melodic but i completely love that album.
Not influential enough. Whilst I love those albums I don't see how they really added anything influential to the genre (maybe the usage of horns... but still...)
You might have a point but they've been around for as long as Pelican and almost as long as the others so who's to say they didn't influenced those bands too?
I think Callisto is worth a mention. I think Noir and True Nature Unfolds are pretty big albums in the genre. Might add Mouth of the Architect too. Time and Withering is classic too.
Whaaat? Where's Ufomammut, Rosetta, Amenra, The Black Heart Rebellion, Year of No Light, Mouth of the Architect, Red Sparrowes, Battle of Mice, even Altar of Plagues could be argued, Palms. The first half of this episode was relevant. The second half was a bit off. The Ocean yes! Precambrian anyone? I'm surprised post-metal is such a mystery to these metal guys. Tool has post tendencies such as Third Eye and maybe parts of lateralus but they aren't post metal. Tool is the first wave of American metal. The first wave is orders of magnitude better than the second wave.
Ufomammut are definitely not post metal. Awesome, but I'd call them something like doom/drone/stoner... similar to Buried At Sea but more typically psychedelic (reminiscient of 70's stuff, which is also not a post-metal thing at all imo). I'm mostly bummed Amenra weren't even mentioned (though Oathbreaker were! If you're gonna mention ANY CoR band in this thing you really should mention the flagship..!)
I think Cloudkicker and Set & Setting are really good post metal bands that could've made the list but are maybe too underground or unknown. Cloudkicker did have an "instrumental djent" thing going on early in their catalog, but as a whole, I'd consider them post metal, especially since Russian Circles made the list and their music is very similar.
I think if this list would be revised again in 5 years, Cloudkicker would make the list. They do take into account the legacy of the bands and how influential they are, and I don't disagree. Cloudkicker is too "new" but Ben's influence is starting to poke around in newer bands. Also the fact that Cloudkicker is one guy doing everything could influence them to not call the project a "band" but I doubt it.
You can brand the Post Metal as a subgenre to Prog Metal. As Post Rock is a descendant of Progresive Krautrock and Space Rock, like early Pink Floyd and Popol Vuh.
May get some crap for this, but will we ever get a grunge lock horns? Grunge being in metal is a debate of it's own but I'm curious what bands would be considered heavy grunge bands.
I'd definitely be keen for that. I've been saying for ages that 'grunge' is just a marketing label for bands from a particular region at a particular time, and that Alice In Chains, as just one example, is a hard rock band that just happened to be labeled as grunge. It'd be interesting, for example, to try to think of a band not from Seattle that fits the 'grunge' genre - when you try to do that you realise just how amorphous the category is. Maybe Bush? That's about it...
A lot of Grunge bands had ALBUMS that bordered on metal but not completely all of their work...EX: STP "Core", Alice In Chains "Dirt", Nirvana "Bleach", Soundgarden "Badmotorfinger" but then the rest of their albums aren't heavy enough to be considered "METAL"....
RXR Again, a lot of Grunge bands made ALBUMS that were heavy enough to called "metal" albums but not all their discography is heavy enough to make them proper metal bands and this includes AiC and Soundgarden and Melvins etc. Those guys are Hard Rock or Sludge Rock OVERALL.
Grunge is not a sound! it was a time and a place...a scene much like the Madchester scene in the UK in the early 90's the bands involved with the scene itself didn't sound alike...the big grunge bands are Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins and Alice in Chains...but to label them all as Grunge would be to claim that they sound the same...which they just don't! Back to the whole Madchester thing I mentioned, the big bands of that scene were Stone Roses and the Happy Mondays...both big bands from Manchester in the UK who sound totally different, yet they were Madchester...it was a scene not a sound....I'd like to see a Grunge episode if we can acknowledge this that I have said and talk about where each Grunge band belongs genre-wise...an example would be Melvins being a Sludge Metal/Stoner Metal band by sound, but they are well known for being a "Grunge" band....Nirvana and Mudhoney would probably fit into Alternative Rock whereas for Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, their sounds are not Alt Rock at all!
It makes me kind of sad that the length of post rock and post metal songs scares people off. I think people are really missing out on some of the most emotional and rewarding music on the planet. You just have to have a little patience I guess.
On the subject of Deftones: While not explicitly post-metal NOR channeling post-metal structures as a whole, the entirety of *Gore*, and prime cuts from all albums since *White Pony* ("Battle Axe" and "Moana" from *Deftones*, many from *Koi No Yokan*, etc.) are definitive influences - at least for me - as far as post-metal goes.
So I looked up "what is post metal" in youtube and this channel came up. Great show btw! My definition of post metal is that it's a genre of metal that you can listen to at a craft brewery because the dude working behind the bar is playing it from his phone. I would also consider it the easiest background metal you can have like elevator music. Post-metal = elevator-metal
R Z ha ha, I can see that, "elevator metal" though I personally like a lot of it. For the most part though, it would be a pretty depressing elevator ride, wouldn't it? :-P
After recently starting to create music of a somewhat Post-Metal style this episode came at a great time! Would also love to see an episode on some more modern Post-Black Metal bands :)
My logic on including Russian Circles is that I used to think of them as a heavy post rock band, until I talked to post rock fans who were like "no, that's post metal." Whatever, if they don't want Russian Circles, let's take'em. Great fuckin band.
I also used to see them as a post-rock band, but honestly they've always been pretty heavy. Enter was at least as heavy and almost anything consider metal (of almost any genre). After that they just became heavier (though sadly imo also more boring).
Baroness Red - Their first album was definitely post metal, with their second album Blue having some elements of post metal, but moving away from the genre as their sound progressed. Red is worth the mention.
In retrospect it's almost a sin we didn't get Amenra (the best live band on the planet) and Year of no Light on here. They would've fit a bit more than Jesu and The Body (still both picks that work, but are more on the fringes) in my opinion.
If Sam wants to check out the genre the galliean satellites is the best album. Check it out. Get tow cd players or record players going for the full effect.
I love this style of Metal, Neurosis and Isis are both in my top 10 bands ever. But this style has been creatively dead since the early 2010's. It's really rare to find anything in this genre that's not just straight up ripping off Neurosis, Isis, Cult of Luna or Pelican nowadays.
Sadly I have to agree. I do find bands making more evocative/interesting music than in metalcore though. I haven't heard an interesting metalcore band since about 2004.
agreed! from there selftitled album till now they deffo have had similarities to post metal but for the most part their structures were catchy and mainstream! although their new album Gore I think is a lot more than just a mainstream album it's more adventurous and I'd say of all their albums it's the leans towards post metal the most, but still it is quite catchy at times...I think they definitely take inspiration from Isis who members of that band have done a project with Chino and I believe Steph takes a bit of inspiration from their sound also! the next Deftones album could be very interesting if things are put into the hands of Stephen Carpenter as more of a leader for their sound! haha I've yapped on a bit here, sorry!
MARE. MARE. MARE. MARE. MARE. 1 EP and it basically helped push the scene in ways no other 'post metal' band could or have done. Callisto deserve to be on here too, 'Noir' pushed the 'Cult Of NeurIsis' sound in a jazzier way and the composition is incredible.
my first experience to this so called post metal was from a band called Deafheaven,they are ambient but black metal vocals,which i think i very feel oriented in a sense
If you're interested in further exploring the genre, I recommend for you to check out Neurosis, Isis, The Ocean Collective, Kayo Dot, Nero Di Marte, and Alcest.
I'm bummed Oathbreaker got a mention but Amenra didn't!! If you're gonna mention a Church of Ra band, mention the most important and influential one! They've been the most interesting band in the genre for the past few years anyway... likely to be increasingly influential, also thanks to their amazing live theatrics, aaand the fact that they fit in as another piece of the post-metal/blackened post-metal genres. Imo they really fit in the little gap right there, though being more on the post-metal side.
Great show though, really enjoyed it and of course some things are always gonna be debatable. But you guys did a good job I think and I agree with at least the first half of the show haha!
Oathbreaker was mentioned but they believe it belongs in the Post Black Metal branch to which I agree. Post Metal stemmed from Sludge and early Pink Floyd to my ears (ex: Isis "In Fiction")
Yeah, Oathbreaker is certainly not a post metal band. But they are a Church of Ra band, which is 'lead' by Amenra, generally considered a post-metal band.
Shame I didn't see any notifications on The Mire. They were a solid band that released a few very excellent albums. Vice Regalia had more a Black Metal aspect to it, but was still a great release from the same band that wrote songs like "Embers", "Palmreader", "Shadows", and "Triple Gemini".
If you are considering Avante-Garde Metal bands I would definitely suggest Stolen Babies and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. SGM is definitely a bit heavier but when John was describing the genre these were the two bands I thought of.
An interesting point to make about Post Metal that wasn't raised in the episode is that it doesn't seem to be an off-shoot at all from the more typical 'main branches' of metal such as Thrash, Death or Black metal, and although it does have something of a line back to Black Sabbath (well everything does), it's more like a development through hardcore and post-rock that became a wholly new kind of metal (Neurosis initially starting as a hardcore band). In that sense, it's maybe more as if it's a branch that was grafted onto the heavy metal tree, rather than one that grew out of it.
Yea, that's about right. It's like crossover or grindcore or sludge. They come out of Hardcore and/or Punk but turned into Metal. Like Melvins, Neurosis, Napalm Death, COC all started as Hardcore bands.
Just wanted to list some suggestions of Post Metal bands that I dig if anyone is interested to dig deeper or find more music: Isis, Rosetta, Mouth of the Architect, We Lost the Sea, Red Sparowes, Russian Circles, Battle of Mice, Cult of Luna, Year of No Light, North, Latitudes, The Random Monsters, Oak, etc...
Deftones should have place in post metal because they have been experimenting with a lot of shoegaze and dreampop, and ambient in their music since around the fur and that was the Blueprint for shoegaze Metal bands like Deafheaven, alcest, jesu, lantlos(Melting sun) even Aaron Turner and Chino Moreno collaborated with each other to form palms and he called the Deftones the best band of the planet. And so many post metal bands have cited Deftones as an influence.deftones are to post metal what tool is to progressive, alternative metal bands that incorporated so many influences in their music that Paved a way for an entire generation of music; and for people that say Deftones doesn’t have shoegaze nor dreampop influence listen to mascara,Crenshaw punch/I’ll throw stones at you,be quite I’ll drive away,the boys republic, knife party,passenger,change in the House of flies, battle axe,Minerva,cherry waves, hole in the earth,sextape,Mein,tempest,Romantic dreams,Rosemary, prayers/triangles, phantom bride, and many more
I mostly agree. I wonder how much Deftones themselves were influenced in later years by more obvious post-metal bands though. At some point it becomes a bit of a circular process maybe?
You forgot about Minsk. I know it is not the most famous band but I think they never went into the region were music is hard to listen (sorry guys, but I cannot take Neurosis an albums on one go). They have all the components which post-metal band needs but they also don't overdose those hard-to-listen parts and they also don't replace those with boring, sweet post-rock-ish parts. They know how to keep balance between all ingredients. And they are also really nice, cool people. They definitely deserve much more attention than they get.
Disappointed at the lack of *Year of No Light*. If I had been able to tune in live, I would've campaigned hard for their inclusion. Formed in 2001, went fully instrumental after their 2006 album _Nord_, 2010's _Ausserwelt_ is an absolute must-have post-metal album, and _Tocsin_ is an excellent follow-up. They were integrating heavy reverb, multiple layered guitars, and synth in 8-10 minute songs well before many bands who emulated the sound. They've been featured at Roadburn and Hellfest, have done split 7" records with bands like Nadja and Altar of Plagues, and they headlined a show in a goddamn Romanian castle. I WILL DOZE YOUR GUTS FOR THIS, SAM!
Awesome band, but I question how influential. Whilst their music is awesome, I'd say their sound is quite 'general' for the genre. Same as the awesome band Callisto.
What about Poland's Blindead? I think this is where they would be catagorized. As would Obscure Sphinx, also from Poland? Not sure what else to call them, progressive doom?
Wow I thought they were going to give the "Legend" status to ISIS. They have more dynamics in their songwriting (heavy and cleans) compared to Neurosis and ISIS have 5 albums in which none are bad by a general consensus. But I get where John Semley is coming from, given that he is into doom and sludge and Neurosis leans more on that end.
The big 3 (neurosis, Isis and cult of Luna) were obvious. Glad to see Russian Circles make the list. Three things I disagree with (1) the body do not belong (not post metal) and (2) where is Rosetta (3) and Mouth of the Architect?
By the by, The Body are pretty fucking dope. I'd call them some subspecies of doom but this is a good enough place for them, particularly with tracks like "Lathspell, I Name You".
I saw them open for Alcest 2 nights ago and to me they came off as Industrial Sludge Noise. Not a single guitar on stage. All pads, drum machines and keys. I dunno. It didn't seem metal, but it was heavy.
The two synonyms I've heard for this genre are metalgaze (like Dave Edwardson said) and atmospheric sludge. (thats why people talk about the Melvins in the same breath) I don't mind the term Post-Metal though.
This is a pretty good grouping for this genre, seeing it got me in the mood to listen to Red Sparrowes again, while not metal they certianly show what post rock can be.
Would Rodan be a controversial suggestion for this branch? They came out of Louisville right after Slint and pretty much did Slint's sound, but heavier and with more loud/soft dynamics. Unlike like Mogwai and Godspeed their connection back to post-hardcore seems more pronounced.
Europe is full of these bands. Poland in particular is overflowing with them. Bands like Riverside, Mind's Edge, Tides From Nebula. Or you could even consider everything Steven Wilson is up to, from Porcupine Tree to Blackfield. Literally anything that sprouted around university student bands and got lost between the cracks of prog, old school 70's rock and modern stylings of indie and alternative, with the odd power chord thrown in.
Post metal, post rock...i think this genre is so vague because not even the bands themselves know. They just say post and then attach whatever they feel like at that moment.
My band is influenced a bit by stoner metal but mostly by post-metal bands and I'm leaning more and more to 'labelling' ourselves post-metal, purely because it seems to give people the most accurate idea of what to expect. That is the only reason, in writing our music we try not to purposefully stick to any genres and just make music that's interesting to us. Influences range from stoner to thrash to noise, post-rock and ambient, but still post-metal is the most fitting label (also because of its ambiguity).
Agree with almost everything. Neurosis first, Isis followed. But Neurosis has so many masterpieces, while Isis drifted to gooey and awful post rock stuff. Cult of Luna, the first 2 are masterpieces. Today's Neurosis though is Sweden's This Gift is a Curse. It's like Enemy of the Sun on steroids it's insane. The new post metal legend for sure. SubRosa is also a good new post metal band. Also there is ONE track from a band that isn't really post metal that is one of the most post metal tracks you can find. That's Zozobra by Old Man Gloom. It's better than anything Isis has put out to me. Truly a legendary EP respected by all metalheads. Another debate is, where do you put Swans ? I would put them in post metal with Tool. Deftones no, they're nu metal not post metal. A big band missing to me is Yob. Yob could be in doom metal or stoner metal, but they fit better in post metal to me.
Tool is definitely not post-metal. Great band. They, along with Pink Floyd, were one of the first bands that helped me understand that music could be something more than dancey sing-along stuff. Great band. But the best thing you could say about them is prog metal, maybe psychadelic metal if that were a bigger thing. Really sad there wasn't more love for Intronaut. Post-black metal/blackgaze is definitely its own thing. Which I fucking love. Also please stop including WitTR with those genres. Just because hipsters like them it does not make them blackgaze. They're solidly atmospheric black metal. This I'm addressing to whatever fans said it at the beginning of the video there, hahaha.
damn sorry I missed this episode guys. John and Lisa and ok Sam u guys did a great job on this episode. this I would have added well for one I remember at one Time some of the bands in the genre said that albums by Helmet such as in the meantime and betty had a direct influence on the time signatures and riffing found in post metal. Also I know bands like Agalloch and Cult of Luna did enjoy and could have possibly taken influence from the album Brave Murder Day by Katatonia which contains some amazing soundscrapes and sustained almost looped riffing found on most post metal albums and add in Mikeal s vocals it makes total sense when hear the more gutteral vocals heard on Cult of Luna and Isis Albums
I think it's really funny that they got all offended about Aaron Turner calling it "thinking man's metal." I don't think he meant that it's exclusively for smart people. I think he just means that its music for introspection. Of course smart people can listen to whatever, but it's kind of hard to say you're going to have a deep, meditative, pensive experience listening to Cannibal Corpse or something like that.
I think THE OCEAN (formerly The Ocean Collective) are a band that deserves consideration as seminal in the genre because Robin Staps is a genius. They aren't a minor band, their discography consists of 6 masterpieces so far and their 7th studio album due out later this year is one of my most highly anticipated of 2017.
The Ocean are great. Sometimes they get a little too far away from Neurosis and into more pure prog territory, but they always seem to bring it back to that base. And their lyrics are fantastic. Comparing the depths of the oceans to types of mental despair. Copernicus' crisis of faith upon his discovery of that the solar system is heliocentric. Lots of stuff relating human experiences to the geological ages of (pre)history. Just a really smart band. All these bands are lyrically very deep and very intelligent, but the things The Ocean come up with are next level stuff!
It makes me cry that Rosetta didn't make this list. They are the bridge between the first and second waves of post metal. 3 genre-defining albums. Acclaim from their peers. They belong.
I'm genuinely shocked they didn't get even get mentioned.
They did near the end!
They were mentioned.
Best band
monument was my jam
I think it's fair to say Deftones definitely has elements of post-metal, but alternative metal seems like a better fit. (since we're on the topic, that chart needs an update)
The Metal Meltdown I think couple other bands here needed to be mentioned. Cult of Luna, Thrice, Coheed and Cambria and Baroness.
Deftones is to metal, what Radiohead is to rock. And Radiohead is not a post-rock band but I can imagine that post-rock bands are influenced by them.
@@Grimeyhoob isnt cult of luna doom metal?
@@m00rtin4 isn’t Opeth Swedish death metal with progressive cheese and chocolate? Stop uttering genres as if it’s some universally held truth
no
Still gives me chills when you acknowledge Raphael, Arthur, DeliciousDishes, and myself as the 4 horsemen of lock horns cause we've been here since the first episode 🤘🏻
I Agree with this analysis of the Post-metal genre. What about Amenra ? Year of no light ?
Could they fit in ? I think so
Erwann Maudez Absofuckinlutely
yeah I tried my best (especially for Amenra, the best live band on the planet), but there just weren't enough people.
I'm glad they mentioned Godflesh. One of the most important "metal" bands ever.
Agreed
Post Metal is by far my favorite genre! Cult of Luna, Neurosis, ISIS, and The Ocean are all my favorite bands
As mine. And other good bands like Minsk, Light Bearer, Rosetta, Thy Catafalque (if you wanna call it Post M.) ...
Greetings from Bavaria
You guys forgot Amenra!!!
Neurosis is everything to me. Thank you for this!
I was glad to see John return for this episode. It's always nice to have a person that really knows the genre well and loves it. Hope to see him again sometime in the future.
Really annoyed that I missed this one. I find the term "post-metal" kind of irritating but there are a lot of great bands under this umbrella that are worth singling out. Skipping ahead and sneaking a peak at the chart, I'm glad you saw fit to put Godflesh at the roots; the post-Swans/Whitehouse industrial/noise-rock crossover scene of the '80s and '90s was fertile ground for heavy yet vaguely cosmic experimental music-Skullflower, Ramleh, Bodychoke, the list goes on; you could do a whole episode on "heavy noise-rock," to be honest-but Broadrick really was the one who took this massive sound into metal spheres as well as the sort of contemplative, highly dynamic places that it would go later.
Shocked noone mentionned the fact that members of ISIS and the vocalist from Deftones have a band together called Palms. Also, I saw Alcest last week and The Body opened for them. It was weird.
Love Palms, Love Team Sleep, Love Crosses, Palms came up a bit in the chat
Yeah thought the same. Personally I could never get into Palms though... sounds good, but the compositions are just boring and unmemorable. Pretty disappointing :/
Just to add some bands not mentioned in this episode that I really like:
Kongh
Lantlôs
Dream Of An Opiumeater. (Live shows only)
I learnt quite a lot from this episode. Much enjoyed being part of the live stream.
I just saw Neurosis and Pelican live. It was so good.
Pelican what a dumb name
I think the reason Tool got brought up so much is because they're contemporaneous with both Neurosis and the early post-rock movement (bands like Stereolab, Slint, and Tortoise). They also borrow a lot of the elements of post-rock in their sounds (long, loose song structures, heavy use of textures, extreme loud-soft/light-heavy dynamic shifts, ponderous atmospheres, the occasional bit of electronics). I wouldn't call them a post-metal band though, because their roots are more grunge-y. Tool is a band that happens to sound like post-rock, but whose roots are actually more like shoving Green River into King Crimson. Post-metal proper is more rooted in that Neurosis style of atmospheric sludge. (On top of all that, post-rock itself borrows those elements from Shoegaze, as does math rock like Don Caballero and Minus the Bear)
You need Aaron Tuner's other bands up there: Old Man Gloom and Sumac. Also Minsk and Mouth of the Architect, otherwise good list was very happy to see this style acknowledged.
Aaron Turner should just be up there on his own lol
neuroisis85 you listed 3 amazing bands that were not even mentioned especially since old man gloom and sumac are almost supergroups. I love mouth of the architect but they are sadly under appreciated.
Anyone else want to mention that alot of Post Metal musicians actually come from the Hardcore scene?
No love for Intronaut? They are a bit of progressive metal but they definitely have some post-metal influences.
One of my favorite genres! Glad you guys are talking about it. At some point will you discuss some of the newer 'shoegaze' metal genres that have become popular in the mainstream outlets these last 5 years? Bands like Alcest, Deafheaven, Les Discrets, (by association) Drudkh, Fen, Lantlos, Lifelover, Ameseours, Todglitcher, Autumn For Crippled Children and Wolves In The Throne Room?
I realise they get lumped as 'hipster' metal nowadays, but I feel they they've come to represent a mixture of genres that would have been unthinkable even 8 years ago. On top of being a large jumping off point for some of the more ' politically questionable' european extreme metal bands as well (Peste Noire, Germ, etc)
Don't forget Agalloch!
Luka Calle Peste Noire are politically loathsome but their music is fantastic. That being said, as you are probably well aware, they did go on to cover atmospheric black and blackgaze in later episodes, and DSBM has been on the docket for quite some time, so you did ultimately get your wish on that front.
Post Metal = If early '70's Pink Floyd wanted to make sludge metal basically.. (Meddle, Set The Controls For The Heart Of the Sun, Careful With That Axe Eugene etc..) with lyrics that talk about the ocean. lots of ocean references used as metaphors haha
Word Post metal is Eclectic and redefines what heavy music is, can and could be
Post Metal is related to Post Rock wich is an updated versión of Space Rock and Krautrock. So the Pink Floyd conection is spot on.
Pink Floyd's Echoes is about the Ocean
Might that full Neurosis interview get posted at some point? A full-band interview would be amazing to see.
Minsk is my favorite Post-metal band
I think Deftones are a band that likely got a lot of people into post metal, they certainly were for me, but they fit more as shoegaze+alt metal rather than post rock but heavier.
True.
If These Trees Could Talk, Junius, Rosetta, Mouth Of The Architect... The Body?
mooncountry1017 Russian Circles, Thrice, Baroness, Cult of Luna
Extend your live show to one hour and a half! 50' its too short for a great show like this.. we want more info !! keep up the good work! \m/
Steak Number Eight from Belgium and Huldra from Utah should be up there. Two of the most underrated post-metal bands
Omega Massif, Russian Circles, Amenra, Year of No Light, Sunwolf ...
Callisto, Rosetta, The Ocean, Amenra, Breach, Old Man Gloom, Intronaut, Mouth of the Arcitect, and others like these are still big names, they should have grabbed for the board. not new at all considering how young the genre is especially breach (CoL mentioned them and Callisto a lot as influences for them)
I think Callisto should at least be mentioned. True Nature Unfolds and Noir are great albums. Providence gets more melodic but i completely love that album.
Not influential enough. Whilst I love those albums I don't see how they really added anything influential to the genre (maybe the usage of horns... but still...)
You might have a point but they've been around for as long as Pelican and almost as long as the others so who's to say they didn't influenced those bands too?
I think Callisto is worth a mention. I think Noir and True Nature Unfolds are pretty big albums in the genre. Might add Mouth of the Architect too. Time and Withering is classic too.
Whaaat? Where's Ufomammut, Rosetta, Amenra, The Black Heart Rebellion, Year of No Light, Mouth of the Architect, Red Sparrowes, Battle of Mice, even Altar of Plagues could be argued, Palms. The first half of this episode was relevant. The second half was a bit off. The Ocean yes! Precambrian anyone? I'm surprised post-metal is such a mystery to these metal guys. Tool has post tendencies such as Third Eye and maybe parts of lateralus but they aren't post metal. Tool is the first wave of American metal. The first wave is orders of magnitude better than the second wave.
Ufomammut are definitely not post metal. Awesome, but I'd call them something like doom/drone/stoner... similar to Buried At Sea but more typically psychedelic (reminiscient of 70's stuff, which is also not a post-metal thing at all imo). I'm mostly bummed Amenra weren't even mentioned (though Oathbreaker were! If you're gonna mention ANY CoR band in this thing you really should mention the flagship..!)
I think Cloudkicker and Set & Setting are really good post metal bands that could've made the list but are maybe too underground or unknown. Cloudkicker did have an "instrumental djent" thing going on early in their catalog, but as a whole, I'd consider them post metal, especially since Russian Circles made the list and their music is very similar.
I think if this list would be revised again in 5 years, Cloudkicker would make the list.
They do take into account the legacy of the bands and how influential they are, and I don't disagree. Cloudkicker is too "new" but Ben's influence is starting to poke around in newer bands.
Also the fact that Cloudkicker is one guy doing everything could influence them to not call the project a "band" but I doubt it.
You can brand the Post Metal as a subgenre to Prog Metal. As Post Rock is a descendant of Progresive Krautrock and Space Rock, like early Pink Floyd and Popol Vuh.
May get some crap for this, but will we ever get a grunge lock horns? Grunge being in metal is a debate of it's own but I'm curious what bands would be considered heavy grunge bands.
It's on the list Brooks.
I'd definitely be keen for that. I've been saying for ages that 'grunge' is just a marketing label for bands from a particular region at a particular time, and that Alice In Chains, as just one example, is a hard rock band that just happened to be labeled as grunge. It'd be interesting, for example, to try to think of a band not from Seattle that fits the 'grunge' genre - when you try to do that you realise just how amorphous the category is. Maybe Bush? That's about it...
A lot of Grunge bands had ALBUMS that bordered on metal but not completely all of their work...EX: STP "Core", Alice In Chains "Dirt", Nirvana "Bleach", Soundgarden "Badmotorfinger" but then the rest of their albums aren't heavy enough to be considered "METAL"....
RXR Again, a lot of Grunge bands made ALBUMS that were heavy enough to called "metal" albums but not all their discography is heavy enough to make them proper metal bands and this includes AiC and Soundgarden and Melvins etc. Those guys are Hard Rock or Sludge Rock OVERALL.
Grunge is not a sound! it was a time and a place...a scene much like the Madchester scene in the UK in the early 90's the bands involved with the scene itself didn't sound alike...the big grunge bands are Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins and Alice in Chains...but to label them all as Grunge would be to claim that they sound the same...which they just don't! Back to the whole Madchester thing I mentioned, the big bands of that scene were Stone Roses and the Happy Mondays...both big bands from Manchester in the UK who sound totally different, yet they were Madchester...it was a scene not a sound....I'd like to see a Grunge episode if we can acknowledge this that I have said and talk about where each Grunge band belongs genre-wise...an example would be Melvins being a Sludge Metal/Stoner Metal band by sound, but they are well known for being a "Grunge" band....Nirvana and Mudhoney would probably fit into Alternative Rock whereas for Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, their sounds are not Alt Rock at all!
It makes me kind of sad that the length of post rock and post metal songs scares people off. I think people are really missing out on some of the most emotional and rewarding music on the planet. You just have to have a little patience I guess.
Most classic era post metal tracks aren’t even that long… like 5-7 minutes is pretty typical for Isis tracks
Callisto, MINSK, Mouth of the Architect, Kongh,A Storm of Light, Old Man Gloom, Blindead, Sumac, Amenra..?
On the subject of Deftones: While not explicitly post-metal NOR channeling post-metal structures as a whole, the entirety of *Gore*, and prime cuts from all albums since *White Pony* ("Battle Axe" and "Moana" from *Deftones*, many from *Koi No Yokan*, etc.) are definitive influences - at least for me - as far as post-metal goes.
So I looked up "what is post metal" in youtube and this channel came up. Great show btw! My definition of post metal is that it's a genre of metal that you can listen to at a craft brewery because the dude working behind the bar is playing it from his phone. I would also consider it the easiest background metal you can have like elevator music. Post-metal = elevator-metal
R Z ha ha, I can see that, "elevator metal" though I personally like a lot of it. For the most part though, it would be a pretty depressing elevator ride, wouldn't it? :-P
this is exactly what I've been waiting for. thank you guys!
this guy is so good, really knows his stuff, and can explain it well
After recently starting to create music of a somewhat Post-Metal style this episode came at a great time! Would also love to see an episode on some more modern Post-Black Metal bands :)
Just saw Alcest tonight. It was great \m/
The Electrocist Me too!
PilotAC would defhaven be in one of these categories??
Yeah I'd say Deafheaven would definitely fit into Post-Black or Blackgaze, though I have to say I've not really listened to them that much
I love Alcest! Would love to see them live sometime :)
When's the Blackgaze episode?
This week! Tomorrow!
After all these years, my UA-cam comments have finally amounted to something.
Ben Lucas review UDO-steelhamer
TOOL is definitely Proto Post Metal !!!
Robert OuttaMyndX Eh. The argument could be made.
I'd argue their last 2 are more Post than their first 2
My logic on including Russian Circles is that I used to think of them as a heavy post rock band, until I talked to post rock fans who were like "no, that's post metal." Whatever, if they don't want Russian Circles, let's take'em. Great fuckin band.
I also used to see them as a post-rock band, but honestly they've always been pretty heavy. Enter was at least as heavy and almost anything consider metal (of almost any genre). After that they just became heavier (though sadly imo also more boring).
Baroness Red - Their first album was definitely post metal, with their second album Blue having some elements of post metal, but moving away from the genre as their sound progressed. Red is worth the mention.
Damn it! I've been waiting for this one and missed the live stream!
In retrospect it's almost a sin we didn't get Amenra (the best live band on the planet) and Year of no Light on here. They would've fit a bit more than Jesu and The Body (still both picks that work, but are more on the fringes) in my opinion.
My favorite band of this genre are Lvmen. They should be in this list, musically
Shoot I meant to watch live and talk about Rosetta.
If Sam wants to check out the genre the galliean satellites is the best album. Check it out. Get tow cd players or record players going for the full effect.
I love this style of Metal, Neurosis and Isis are both in my top 10 bands ever. But this style has been creatively dead since the early 2010's. It's really rare to find anything in this genre that's not just straight up ripping off Neurosis, Isis, Cult of Luna or Pelican nowadays.
Sadly I have to agree. I do find bands making more evocative/interesting music than in metalcore though. I haven't heard an interesting metalcore band since about 2004.
TOOL needs to go up with Godflesh. Elements of TOOL influenced Post Metal but did not pioneer it.
The Deftones embraced post metal but continued creating more mainstream music overall, they are not post metal.
agreed! from there selftitled album till now they deffo have had similarities to post metal but for the most part their structures were catchy and mainstream! although their new album Gore I think is a lot more than just a mainstream album it's more adventurous and I'd say of all their albums it's the leans towards post metal the most, but still it is quite catchy at times...I think they definitely take inspiration from Isis who members of that band have done a project with Chino and I believe Steph takes a bit of inspiration from their sound also! the next Deftones album could be very interesting if things are put into the hands of Stephen Carpenter as more of a leader for their sound! haha I've yapped on a bit here, sorry!
MARE. MARE. MARE. MARE. MARE. 1 EP and it basically helped push the scene in ways no other 'post metal' band could or have done.
Callisto deserve to be on here too, 'Noir' pushed the 'Cult Of NeurIsis' sound in a jazzier way and the composition is incredible.
neurosis is defiantly its own genre, and arguably one of the most important bands in all of extreme metal.
Damn right
Could we see more of that Neurosis interview.
my first experience to this so called post metal was from a band called Deafheaven,they are ambient but black metal vocals,which i think i very feel oriented in a sense
If you're interested in further exploring the genre, I recommend for you to check out Neurosis, Isis, The Ocean Collective, Kayo Dot, Nero Di Marte, and Alcest.
Also Cult of Luna, especially loved last years Mariner record, as well as both Vertikal albums.
I'm bummed Oathbreaker got a mention but Amenra didn't!! If you're gonna mention a Church of Ra band, mention the most important and influential one! They've been the most interesting band in the genre for the past few years anyway... likely to be increasingly influential, also thanks to their amazing live theatrics, aaand the fact that they fit in as another piece of the post-metal/blackened post-metal genres. Imo they really fit in the little gap right there, though being more on the post-metal side.
Great show though, really enjoyed it and of course some things are always gonna be debatable. But you guys did a good job I think and I agree with at least the first half of the show haha!
Oathbreaker was mentioned but they believe it belongs in the Post Black Metal branch to which I agree. Post Metal stemmed from Sludge and early Pink Floyd to my ears (ex: Isis "In Fiction")
Yeah, Oathbreaker is certainly not a post metal band. But they are a Church of Ra band, which is 'lead' by Amenra, generally considered a post-metal band.
fuck yes i have been waiting so long for this!!!!
I would have liked to see Solstafir, Kayo Dot and Ancestors on the board...
Shame I didn't see any notifications on The Mire. They were a solid band that released a few very excellent albums. Vice Regalia had more a Black Metal aspect to it, but was still a great release from the same band that wrote songs like "Embers", "Palmreader", "Shadows", and "Triple Gemini".
Glass Cathedral is the most underrated album in the metal genre period and one of my top ten of all times and I'm old af
AMENRA , ROSETTA
If you are considering Avante-Garde Metal bands I would definitely suggest Stolen Babies and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum.
SGM is definitely a bit heavier but when John was describing the genre these were the two bands I thought of.
An interesting point to make about Post Metal that wasn't raised in the episode is that it doesn't seem to be an off-shoot at all from the more typical 'main branches' of metal such as Thrash, Death or Black metal, and although it does have something of a line back to Black Sabbath (well everything does), it's more like a development through hardcore and post-rock that became a wholly new kind of metal (Neurosis initially starting as a hardcore band). In that sense, it's maybe more as if it's a branch that was grafted onto the heavy metal tree, rather than one that grew out of it.
Yea, that's about right. It's like crossover or grindcore or sludge. They come out of Hardcore and/or Punk but turned into Metal. Like Melvins, Neurosis, Napalm Death, COC all started as Hardcore bands.
Oh, and two older and highly important instrumental metal bands that immediately come to mind: Earth and Gore.
I mentioned Earth several times during the stream but they ignored it.
I think Earth is more drone metal than Post-metal
Alter of Plagues & Mouth of the Architect...
Ethan Gardner destroyers of all by ulcerate...
Just wanted to list some suggestions of Post Metal bands that I dig if anyone is interested to dig deeper or find more music: Isis, Rosetta, Mouth of the Architect, We Lost the Sea, Red Sparowes, Russian Circles, Battle of Mice, Cult of Luna, Year of No Light, North, Latitudes, The Random Monsters, Oak, etc...
Post-metal or metalgaze is a stylistic fusion of heavy metal with post-rock and or shoegazing
surprised nobody on the show took the opportunity to call Godflesh a PRE-post-metal band
We kind of did! That's why the magnet is put above the board. :-)
Deftones should have place in post metal because they have been experimenting with a lot of shoegaze and dreampop, and ambient in their music since around the fur and that was the Blueprint for shoegaze Metal bands like Deafheaven, alcest, jesu, lantlos(Melting sun) even Aaron Turner and Chino Moreno collaborated with each other to form palms and he called the Deftones the best band of the planet. And so many post metal bands have cited Deftones as an influence.deftones are to post metal what tool is to progressive, alternative metal bands that incorporated so many influences in their music that Paved a way for an entire generation of music; and for people that say Deftones doesn’t have shoegaze nor dreampop influence listen to mascara,Crenshaw punch/I’ll throw stones at you,be quite I’ll drive away,the boys republic, knife party,passenger,change in the House of flies, battle axe,Minerva,cherry waves, hole in the earth,sextape,Mein,tempest,Romantic dreams,Rosemary, prayers/triangles, phantom bride, and many more
I mostly agree. I wonder how much Deftones themselves were influenced in later years by more obvious post-metal bands though. At some point it becomes a bit of a circular process maybe?
You forgot about Minsk. I know it is not the most famous band but I think they never went into the region were music is hard to listen (sorry guys, but I cannot take Neurosis an albums on one go). They have all the components which post-metal band needs but they also don't overdose those hard-to-listen parts and they also don't replace those with boring, sweet post-rock-ish parts. They know how to keep balance between all ingredients. And they are also really nice, cool people. They definitely deserve much more attention than they get.
Disappointed at the lack of *Year of No Light*. If I had been able to tune in live, I would've campaigned hard for their inclusion. Formed in 2001, went fully instrumental after their 2006 album _Nord_, 2010's _Ausserwelt_ is an absolute must-have post-metal album, and _Tocsin_ is an excellent follow-up. They were integrating heavy reverb, multiple layered guitars, and synth in 8-10 minute songs well before many bands who emulated the sound. They've been featured at Roadburn and Hellfest, have done split 7" records with bands like Nadja and Altar of Plagues, and they headlined a show in a goddamn Romanian castle. I WILL DOZE YOUR GUTS FOR THIS, SAM!
Good call on Year of No Light!
Awesome band, but I question how influential. Whilst their music is awesome, I'd say their sound is quite 'general' for the genre. Same as the awesome band Callisto.
... the sound and the style of METAL has Changed !!!
What about Poland's Blindead? I think this is where they would be catagorized. As would Obscure Sphinx, also from Poland? Not sure what else to call them, progressive doom?
Wow I thought they were going to give the "Legend" status to ISIS. They have more dynamics in their songwriting (heavy and cleans) compared to Neurosis and ISIS have 5 albums in which none are bad by a general consensus. But I get where John Semley is coming from, given that he is into doom and sludge and Neurosis leans more on that end.
No mention of AMENRA! a fantastic band! With close links to neurosis!
The big 3 (neurosis, Isis and cult of Luna) were obvious. Glad to see Russian Circles make the list. Three things I disagree with (1) the body do not belong (not post metal) and (2) where is Rosetta (3) and Mouth of the Architect?
Russian Circles... Instrumental but, Amazing!
one of my favourite genres
By the by, The Body are pretty fucking dope. I'd call them some subspecies of doom but this is a good enough place for them, particularly with tracks like "Lathspell, I Name You".
I saw them open for Alcest 2 nights ago and to me they came off as Industrial Sludge Noise. Not a single guitar on stage. All pads, drum machines and keys. I dunno. It didn't seem metal, but it was heavy.
Thanks, enjoyed this enormously.
Amenra definitely deserved a spot.
The two synonyms I've heard for this genre are metalgaze (like Dave Edwardson said) and atmospheric sludge. (thats why people talk about the Melvins in the same breath) I don't mind the term Post-Metal though.
This is a pretty good grouping for this genre, seeing it got me in the mood to listen to Red Sparrowes again, while not metal they certianly show what post rock can be.
Post metal, blackgaze and metalcore are my favourite metal genres tbh
Core kid
Awesome. Hail Banger TV.
Best post-metal bands:
The Deliver Escape Plan
Judas Post
Avenged Letter-Fold
Mail Van Halen
Package At The Gates
Mailstorm
Would Rodan be a controversial suggestion for this branch? They came out of Louisville right after Slint and pretty much did Slint's sound, but heavier and with more loud/soft dynamics. Unlike like Mogwai and Godspeed their connection back to post-hardcore seems more pronounced.
John is such a nice guy.
Europe is full of these bands. Poland in particular is overflowing with them. Bands like Riverside, Mind's Edge, Tides From Nebula. Or you could even consider everything Steven Wilson is up to, from Porcupine Tree to Blackfield. Literally anything that sprouted around university student bands and got lost between the cracks of prog, old school 70's rock and modern stylings of indie and alternative, with the odd power chord thrown in.
I was also thinking about Steven Wilson's work and Tides From Nebula, but thought they'd fit better into post-rock than post-metal.
Post metal, post rock...i think this genre is so vague because not even the bands themselves know. They just say post and then attach whatever they feel like at that moment.
My band is influenced a bit by stoner metal but mostly by post-metal bands and I'm leaning more and more to 'labelling' ourselves post-metal, purely because it seems to give people the most accurate idea of what to expect. That is the only reason, in writing our music we try not to purposefully stick to any genres and just make music that's interesting to us. Influences range from stoner to thrash to noise, post-rock and ambient, but still post-metal is the most fitting label (also because of its ambiguity).
Agree with almost everything. Neurosis first, Isis followed. But Neurosis has so many masterpieces, while Isis drifted to gooey and awful post rock stuff. Cult of Luna, the first 2 are masterpieces. Today's Neurosis though is Sweden's This Gift is a Curse. It's like Enemy of the Sun on steroids it's insane. The new post metal legend for sure. SubRosa is also a good new post metal band.
Also there is ONE track from a band that isn't really post metal that is one of the most post metal tracks you can find. That's Zozobra by Old Man Gloom. It's better than anything Isis has put out to me. Truly a legendary EP respected by all metalheads.
Another debate is, where do you put Swans ? I would put them in post metal with Tool. Deftones no, they're nu metal not post metal.
A big band missing to me is Yob. Yob could be in doom metal or stoner metal, but they fit better in post metal to me.
Tool is definitely not post-metal. Great band. They, along with Pink Floyd, were one of the first bands that helped me understand that music could be something more than dancey sing-along stuff. Great band. But the best thing you could say about them is prog metal, maybe psychadelic metal if that were a bigger thing.
Really sad there wasn't more love for Intronaut.
Post-black metal/blackgaze is definitely its own thing. Which I fucking love.
Also please stop including WitTR with those genres. Just because hipsters like them it does not make them blackgaze. They're solidly atmospheric black metal. This I'm addressing to whatever fans said it at the beginning of the video there, hahaha.
Evan Schooling agree with you about Tool, prog/psychedelic/art metal/rock for sure, not post metal.
Melvins between Melt-Banana and Napalm Death in Pensacola was fucking amazing..
Cool episode. Would've been cool to acknowledge oathbreaker and lantlos.
post black metal. Sam did mentioned at the end
Dirge from France is great post metal band...cheers
No one mentioned Alcest?
damn sorry I missed this episode guys. John and Lisa and ok Sam u guys did a great job on this episode.
this I would have added well for one I remember at one Time some of the bands in the genre said that albums by Helmet such as in the meantime and betty had a direct influence on the time signatures and riffing found in post metal.
Also I know bands like Agalloch and Cult of Luna did enjoy and could have possibly taken influence from the album Brave Murder Day by Katatonia which contains some amazing soundscrapes and sustained almost looped riffing found on most post metal albums and add in Mikeal s vocals it makes total sense when hear the more gutteral vocals heard on Cult of Luna and Isis Albums
do other federal services get their own style as well?? cop metal, paramedic metal, fire dept metal, DMV metal, parks dept metal!!
Yeah I thought that was weird when looking up their official site :P BUY IT!
If only a visit to the Doctor was 99 cents :p.
steve cat code compliance metal
Is there a link to that Neurosis interview, the full thing? I want to see that.
Love your show but I'm out in Calgary and can never catch it live.