I've also watched your video enough to appreciate the guitar music I presume you played? I liked the switch to "you spin me round" as you were showing the circling action 😁
is this how tagliariol was dominating his opponents? Lightning fast footwork to close the distance and blade control if the opponent tries to counterattack?
@@kptnflam3724 it was definitely a major part of his style! You can see him do exactly what you described in his final touch against Jeannet at the 2008 Olympics-flèche forward, sweep the blade, land the flick
@@Z.O.M.G then you can still use some of these ideas! I’m a French grip user actually, and learning this style has made my blade actions stronger. But there are a few weaknesses that make it harder: since we have less leverage on our grip than pistol grip users do, it’s harder to make the circle motions as fast, and it’s also harder in some cases to hit the crazy angles we might need to land ripostes at close distance. But you can still apply the ideas of keeping your tip out wide to hold the opponent’s blade, and of trying to parry so that their point goes past your body
I'm pretty new to fencing (12 months as of September) but my coach and most other people I've fenced with have recommended small circles, and in parries to keep the top on my opponent as much as possible. I fence a very off the blade french grip style, and I find that opponents (at least at my low level) that do massive sweeping/searching actions are pretty easy for me to disengage counter attack. I was wondering how the small actions school of thought compares with this style? Is is just 2 different styles that have their own strengths and weaknesses (kinda like french vs pistol grip, neither is strictly 100% better than the other, its kinda preference), or is it just easier to teach beginners to keep small when they learn the fundamentals (like how I was told to extend out and keep my arm there to fix a point and not pull my arm back, but now that I understand that fundamental I can pump faint in certain contexts, you don't have to extend your arm at a binary of 0 and 1)
@@ashtonreid2938 very sharp thinking, especially for somebody in the first year of fencing. I’m actually an absence-of-blade French grip fencer too. There are several things we can say about this: - it’s absolutely a different school of thought. The French system teaches to always keep the tip on target, to take parries as quickly as possible. They don’t “trap” the opponent’s blade; instead, they deflect it for just a fraction of a second to create the opening to launch their own riposte. It takes quick timing. - even in the Italian style, you still want to keep your tip on target until the blade engagement actually happens. The hard part of these parries is knowing when the moment comes that you’re able to fully take that leverage. If you try to do it from too far away, your opponent gets the easiest disengage touch ever. - I absolutely think it’s a good idea to emphasize smaller actions for beginning fencers. It’s way more common for beginners to make movements too big, and it takes specialized training to learn to keep them tight and focused. This style of parry-riposte is more suitable for intermediate to advanced fencers, who already have a feel for the basics.
why do you flip over your wrist when doing ther reposte off of the parry 7, rather than reposting by rotating the blade to the right in your hand, so as to turn very quickly, instead?
@@MeeMe3moOMoo I’m betting you mean the parry 4, right? But the reason I do that here is because at short distance, the wrist flip makes it easier to find target. For a riposte where the opponent is a bit further in front of you, the movement you’ve described is ideal. But at close range, the wrist flip helps create the space you need to place the tip on target.
@@Holo_bolo as a French grip user myself, when fencing somebody who parries like this, you have to work your long distance threats very, very effectively, and NEVER get close enough for them to use one of these parries (unless you’re suddenly blasting forwards when they’re not ready). I find that people who use Italian-style parries as their main defense are often a little more exposed to getting hit on the hand.
@@Holo_bolo more specifically, I mean “short target”-targets that you can hit without having to get too close to the opponent, mainly the hand and foot.
@@fernandoromero9906 it can be! It’s just trickier. Hard to move the point as fast with French grip’s weaker leverage, and tricky to get some of the angles for ripostes. Still not bad at all, just doesn’t play to the strengths of French grip as much.
@@achilleus2669 Switched to the french grip years ago, love the absolute dominance of distance that it offers but I was never trained in the french style (or any other style for that matter). Last night I went for a training session with some older fencers and met a guy who fences the traditional french style. Really cool dude (he's a family man as well), probably twice my age yet has absolutely amazing point control and distance control. I somehow got a pretty even score with him using my very unorthodox tactics that I picked up along the way fencing people better than me. Watching this video made me realise how similar my bladework is with the Italian style, the parry 6 and bind riposte is literally a bread and butter move of mine and it has very rarely failed me despite me posting with a french grip.
Watching this video has made me reconsider a lot. That wide circling and aggressive binding style is quite literally what I've been doing for the longest time, maybe it's time I whip out the old Visconti grip to try out some of the more wilder angles and easier flicking that it offers. However, I'm still too stubborn to completely give up on my french.
@@meridio4441 not sure, having no direct personal experience with HEMA rule sets. If you try it with a weapon where cuts with the edge of the blade are a part of the game, that would probably make it much riskier than it is in Olympic epée, where only the tip of the blade can score a point.
This video is highly interesting for those who practice weapons like the rapier. It’s principles of leverage and “pointing away” are analogous to maneuvers you see in Spanish style, or “Verdadera Destreza” I don’t think it’d be doable with cutting weapons though
@@iamthespy9808 Out of my depth, here, but maybe it could be viable in a weapon discipline with armor and/or grappling as well. The guy who taught this method to me described it as being "like the epee equivalent of grappling." For unarmored cutting-edge weapons, though, I agree--the applicability would be much more limited at best.
@@achilleus2669 I really like this video and I’ve seen it multiple times. I only practice Sabre in Sports Fencing but this shared a lot of interesting insights for the functioning of thrusting weapons, aspects such as “flicks” with the wrists, parrying and pointing away (Atajos), thrusting with the sword facing “left or right” at an angle were pretty much taught to me similarly in rapier I wouldn’t be surprised if the italian style of epee was a direct evolution of 16th-17th century spanish treatises
@@iamthespy9808 if you want to see this style at its absolute peak, you should go check out some highlights from Matteo Tagliariol. Olympic epee champ ‘08, with some of the flashiest actions ever seen in the sport. He’s the best showcase (imo) of the heights somebody can reach by using this approach to fencing
Seems like with this idea you never step back with parries, otherwise your opponent would not pass behind you. How Italian schoold approaches this? Typical parry is done with step back to make yourself more space and time for reaction.
Smart observation! If you watch the guys on team Italy, they do often stay planted or even step forward with the parry. However, they do sometimes still take a quick retreat when attacked, either because they're not confident they have the parry, or because the opponent is coming in at a speed where they need the extra time and space to get blade control. In the end, we should use footwork to get whatever the correct distance is for the parry, whether that's backwards, forwards, or in place.
T.21/ 3 - When the handle has a special device or attachment or has a special shape (e.g. orthopedic) it must be held in such a way that the upper surface of the thumb is in the same plane as the groove in the blade (at foil or at epée) and perpendicular to the plane of flexibility of the blade at sabre. You cant do this.
This man is cooking 🔥
Great video. Great music. Would like to see more videos from you!
Sick moves, sick music and sick hair!
love this. thank u. I have trouble with parade, this is really helpful!
You're a legend!
You positively can do those parries with a French or an Italian grip, btw. It might look a bit weird, but still ❤
Fencer from Türkiye and oh wow i am amazed and relieved. I am doing the same attacks again and again...
I was*
Preparing for uni, i guess i will try these in home it would take a while to try these at the club
Great video!
Keep it up mate🥂
Nice man. You should make more videos in this vein. 👌
@@flaze3 thanks!! I’ll be glad to, if I can think of another action or aspect of fencing that I feel like I understand and can explain.
@@achilleus2669 I liked the prime to nine flick. Some more stuff on flicking would be cool. Do you just do épée or foil too?
@@flaze3 I’ve done foil in the past, although I’m all epée now. But I do like foil flicks in particular
@@achilleus2669 me too. I flick quite a lot in foil, and also in épée! But hardly ever as a parry riposte action, so I like seeing content on that 😁
I've also watched your video enough to appreciate the guitar music I presume you played? I liked the switch to "you spin me round" as you were showing the circling action 😁
is this how tagliariol was dominating his opponents? Lightning fast footwork to close the distance and blade control if the opponent tries to counterattack?
@@kptnflam3724 it was definitely a major part of his style! You can see him do exactly what you described in his final touch against Jeannet at the 2008 Olympics-flèche forward, sweep the blade, land the flick
You are the best ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉
can i use this in foil ?
@@green_burn totally. In fact, a lot of common foil technique resembles this approach; it’s arguably even better in foil than in epée.
How to parry with Jim Morrison)
@@Andy-gg9yo I am the Lizard King, I can parry anything
Lets say (hipotetically of course) I use the french grip, what then?
@@Z.O.M.G then you can still use some of these ideas! I’m a French grip user actually, and learning this style has made my blade actions stronger. But there are a few weaknesses that make it harder: since we have less leverage on our grip than pistol grip users do, it’s harder to make the circle motions as fast, and it’s also harder in some cases to hit the crazy angles we might need to land ripostes at close distance. But you can still apply the ideas of keeping your tip out wide to hold the opponent’s blade, and of trying to parry so that their point goes past your body
I'm pretty new to fencing (12 months as of September) but my coach and most other people I've fenced with have recommended small circles, and in parries to keep the top on my opponent as much as possible. I fence a very off the blade french grip style, and I find that opponents (at least at my low level) that do massive sweeping/searching actions are pretty easy for me to disengage counter attack. I was wondering how the small actions school of thought compares with this style? Is is just 2 different styles that have their own strengths and weaknesses (kinda like french vs pistol grip, neither is strictly 100% better than the other, its kinda preference), or is it just easier to teach beginners to keep small when they learn the fundamentals (like how I was told to extend out and keep my arm there to fix a point and not pull my arm back, but now that I understand that fundamental I can pump faint in certain contexts, you don't have to extend your arm at a binary of 0 and 1)
@@ashtonreid2938 very sharp thinking, especially for somebody in the first year of fencing. I’m actually an absence-of-blade French grip fencer too. There are several things we can say about this:
- it’s absolutely a different school of thought. The French system teaches to always keep the tip on target, to take parries as quickly as possible. They don’t “trap” the opponent’s blade; instead, they deflect it for just a fraction of a second to create the opening to launch their own riposte. It takes quick timing.
- even in the Italian style, you still want to keep your tip on target until the blade engagement actually happens. The hard part of these parries is knowing when the moment comes that you’re able to fully take that leverage. If you try to do it from too far away, your opponent gets the easiest disengage touch ever.
- I absolutely think it’s a good idea to emphasize smaller actions for beginning fencers. It’s way more common for beginners to make movements too big, and it takes specialized training to learn to keep them tight and focused. This style of parry-riposte is more suitable for intermediate to advanced fencers, who already have a feel for the basics.
why do you flip over your wrist when doing ther reposte off of the parry 7, rather than reposting by rotating the blade to the right in your hand, so as to turn very quickly, instead?
@@MeeMe3moOMoo I’m betting you mean the parry 4, right? But the reason I do that here is because at short distance, the wrist flip makes it easier to find target. For a riposte where the opponent is a bit further in front of you, the movement you’ve described is ideal. But at close range, the wrist flip helps create the space you need to place the tip on target.
@@achilleus2669 ahh ok thank you!
Great video! How can someone beat that kind of fencer? Especially when using a French grip?
@@Holo_bolo as a French grip user myself, when fencing somebody who parries like this, you have to work your long distance threats very, very effectively, and NEVER get close enough for them to use one of these parries (unless you’re suddenly blasting forwards when they’re not ready). I find that people who use Italian-style parries as their main defense are often a little more exposed to getting hit on the hand.
@@achilleus2669 thank you! When you say long distance threat you mean a long lunge for example ?
@@Holo_bolo more specifically, I mean “short target”-targets that you can hit without having to get too close to the
opponent, mainly the hand and foot.
@@achilleus2669 thank you!!
Can't be done with French Grip?
@@fernandoromero9906 it can be! It’s just trickier. Hard to move the point as fast with French grip’s weaker leverage, and tricky to get some of the angles for ripostes. Still not bad at all, just doesn’t play to the strengths of French grip as much.
@@achilleus2669
Switched to the french grip years ago, love the absolute dominance of distance that it offers but I was never trained in the french style (or any other style for that matter).
Last night I went for a training session with some older fencers and met a guy who fences the traditional french style.
Really cool dude (he's a family man as well), probably twice my age yet has absolutely amazing point control and distance control. I somehow got a pretty even score with him using my very unorthodox tactics that I picked up along the way fencing people better than me.
Watching this video made me realise how similar my bladework is with the Italian style, the parry 6 and bind riposte is literally a bread and butter move of mine and it has very rarely failed me despite me posting with a french grip.
Watching this video has made me reconsider a lot. That wide circling and aggressive binding style is quite literally what I've been doing for the longest time, maybe it's time I whip out the old Visconti grip to try out some of the more wilder angles and easier flicking that it offers. However, I'm still too stubborn to completely give up on my french.
Is this doable in hema too?
@@meridio4441 not sure, having no direct personal experience with HEMA rule sets. If you try it with a weapon where cuts with the edge of the blade are a part of the game, that would probably make it much riskier than it is in Olympic epée, where only the tip of the blade can score a point.
This video is highly interesting for those who practice weapons like the rapier. It’s principles of leverage and “pointing away” are analogous to maneuvers you see in Spanish style, or “Verdadera Destreza”
I don’t think it’d be doable with cutting weapons though
@@iamthespy9808 Out of my depth, here, but maybe it could be viable in a weapon discipline with armor and/or grappling as well. The guy who taught this method to me described it as being "like the epee equivalent of grappling." For unarmored cutting-edge weapons, though, I agree--the applicability would be much more limited at best.
@@achilleus2669 I really like this video and I’ve seen it multiple times. I only practice Sabre in Sports Fencing but this shared a lot of interesting insights for the functioning of thrusting weapons, aspects such as “flicks” with the wrists, parrying and pointing away (Atajos), thrusting with the sword facing “left or right” at an angle were pretty much taught to me similarly in rapier
I wouldn’t be surprised if the italian style of epee was a direct evolution of 16th-17th century spanish treatises
@@iamthespy9808 if you want to see this style at its absolute peak, you should go check out some highlights from Matteo Tagliariol. Olympic epee champ ‘08, with some of the flashiest actions ever seen in the sport. He’s the best showcase (imo) of the heights somebody can reach by using this approach to fencing
100!🙂
Thats not an italian epee/spada though?...
It's an Olympic Epee, and this style is specifically for Olympic fencing. This is just how Italian schools do it.
I have a French grip.
Me too.
French dip is delicious
brother iam from india can i get a EPEE lesson from you ?
I don't know much about giving any lessons, but if you have any questions, I'm glad to try to answer them if I can!
Seems like with this idea you never step back with parries, otherwise your opponent would not pass behind you. How Italian schoold approaches this? Typical parry is done with step back to make yourself more space and time for reaction.
Smart observation! If you watch the guys on team Italy, they do often stay planted or even step forward with the parry. However, they do sometimes still take a quick retreat when attacked, either because they're not confident they have the parry, or because the opponent is coming in at a speed where they need the extra time and space to get blade control.
In the end, we should use footwork to get whatever the correct distance is for the parry, whether that's backwards, forwards, or in place.
Это не шпага, это рапира
Uugh, ewww...An olympic foil...fascinating still none the less lol
T.21/ 3 - When the handle has a special device or attachment or has a special shape (e.g.
orthopedic) it must be held in such a way that the upper surface of the thumb is in the same
plane as the groove in the blade (at foil or at epée) and perpendicular to the plane of flexibility
of the blade at sabre.
You cant do this.