I never understood why fans get so pissy about the Spartan IVs. Humanity is hilariously underpowered in this setting. Every major alien faction is more advanced, more numerous, and vastly more physically powerful than humanity. The horrendously unethical SPARTAN III program was one of many terrible things done to try to make up for this massive power gap, and it barely worked. After seeing the success of the Spartan program as being one of the only things giving some measure of advantage, why would any sane military NOT attempt to replicate it on a larger scale. Especially if it can be done without resorting to atrocities like those used to make the IIs and IIIs. Even if the IVs are half as good as a II, that’s still a massive step up from the basic marines that get slaughtered en masse by individual Elites. Chief is still as special as ever. He didn’t drop in quality just because other soldiers aren’t completely helpless in his presence.
I've got no issue with humanity becoming more powerful and augmentations being rolled out to larger portions of the military. My issue stems from the nomenclature. Augment humans, that's absolutely fine. Just don't call them Spartans. Spartans, by their very definition, especially on regards to their historical origins, are children trained from an early age to be the greatest warriors in the world. The 4s were not children, they were adults. So they're not Spartans. Might make a video on this, where I explore how and why the 4s are given a tough time. Mind if I reference your comment?
Installation00 Sure. I’m good with that. Just keep in mind that the name, both in and out of universe, was applied to them because it references the now-legendary warriors like Chief. It’s much easier to get recruits for your new program if you brand it as a way to become like the hero who saved humanity from its darkest hour.
Basic Marines don't get slaughtered, they can hold their own they know what they are doing. Normal people don't even get slaughtered unless it's Jackles and Brutes doing the killing. Elites don't find it honorable to kill those that do not plan on fighting and they respect humans. Grunts don't want to be there in the first place and hunters just seem like they do whatever the elites tell them to do. Humans aren't outclassed as much as you think. Odsts can take a damn gravity hammer to the chest and survive. Marines have survived countless wars which in return they get turned into odsts. That doesn't happen our of the blue man and there are tons of odst to prove it. With just a knife and odst took down a brute...what's stopping any normal human from doing that? Fear. Once you get over your fear and let determination take you over then you'll be in good shape. Humans are naturally powerful but our brains don't allow us to use all that power or we hurt ourselves. This is why we have pain receptors and why we can paralyze ourselves in various scenarios like sleep for example. We are a species that revolve around adapting quickly. We don't take millions of years to evolve into something crazy, we do that in a hundred.
Steven Jones You know what strategists call someone who relies entirely on “determination” to face massively overpowering opposition? It’s “morons”. How many marines die for you to get maybe three that have short bursts of hysterical strength that might help them overcome the basic swipe of an Elite once, at the costs of breaking their arms? Will you be “determined” enough to ignore a plasma blast dissolving your armor? Stop thinking in pure videogame terms and see it in semi-realistically. An ODST can barely survive ridiculous punishment in-game, but in a real setting, that isn’t why happens when facing weapons that break tanks. This isn’t shonen anime or something. “Determination” doesn’t overcome everything. That’s just on a purely small infantry level. On a larger level, marines were getting slaughtered by the droves. The Covenant was driving humanity near extinction. The population was cut down to a small fraction of what it once was by the end. Now humanity faces not only their remnants, but enemy factions that greatly outclass them. No sane person is going to reject a method of making better soldiers to at least attempt to prepare to fight these threats.
@@Mgauge I think my biggest problem steps off the line of strategy, and logic and i just roll my eyes whenever i see the annoying ass written characters that are the spartan 4s, but thats just me
It was bound to happen as soon as they perfected the augmentations enough to not need children. The II’s have never known anything but war and training, they can’t remember a life outside of that. Most of the threes died outside of Gama Company and the 4’s are essentially Tony Starks.. good soldiers, but normal people elevated to demigod status. That doesn’t weed out assholes and bad people. Those people can be awesome soldiers and also be someone I don’t want to be around. As you can notice I stopped 3 mins in to comment on your first point.. playing the rest now haha
As someone with experience in enlisted military, I can assure you it's more common than you think. Really good people as a troop, potentially scummy as an individual person.. or as you put it: people you don't always want to be around.
@@Mortablunt no he is same that's why he's doing this. He understand what it takes, if he doesn't then that's the end for humanity and that's it. He has nothing to lose
I just realized that the return of blue team was foreshadowed in the intro to halo 4. "MY spartans are humanity's next step, our destiny as a species... *dont underestimate them*, and more importantly, dont underestimate HIM."
I think she knew Blue team was alive. She also might have just been speaking in the past tense (Don't underestimate my Novels) because she was jail and didn't think she'd be getting out.
Of course she knew Blue Team was alive... the books went over hew being with Blue Team on Reach and getting rescued, I think in First Strike, set between Halo and Halo 2
Yes yes, but as the audience, we didnt know they were coming back as characters in the games. This was such a subtle hint, that im sure most missed it for years. I sure did.
Josh Reyes I think they wanted 4 player co op to incentivize having friends by separate copies and not play split screen. But as Joe Rogan would say “it’s entirely possible”
They were in Halo 4. BY Halo 5, they've had the gung ho cockyness drilled and trained out of them by Jun, a few other surviving Spartan III's and Chief Mendez and his team of specialist training personnel.
You have to be a moron cast an entire class of Spartans based off one superficial representation of a fire team. Majestic that is. How many fire teams are there?
Fireteam Fratboy are a mistake in general. The idea that you can just shove Spartan level augmentations into these people to make them into Spartans without the strict level of indoctrination and long term training that made the Spartan 2s humanity's finest warriors, or the traumas and then high-intensity training of the Spartan 3s into highly effective, team-oriented soldiers even without Mjolnir... Well it's just absurd. Spartans are much more than just their augmentations or equipment. I would say what makes a human into a Spartan is primarily the unmatched training and the close-knit, almost familial bonds between Spartans that result from that, including the secret, insular code phrases known only to Spartan operatives and noone else. The armour and augmentations just allow them to utilize this training to the highest degree possible.
Even without augmentations I feel as if the Spartan 2s would be the most elite unit in the UNSC due to their lifetime of training and experience. (Though their mortality rate would certainly be higher)
I think a problem with Spartan IV's is largely in a way how they're portrayed vs. what they actually are. They're portrayed as the next generation of spartan, but they are not that. Spartan IV's are essentially "normal" soldiers (compared to other Spartans) with Spartan-level aguments and armor. And whilst it's true that this does not replace the training of a previous-generation Spartan, it does allow the soldier to use their own, less impressive training to a far superior extent then what they could do without the Spartan augments. They're to spartans II's and III's what a common soldier is to a special forces soldier. They're the comparatively untrained marine to the SEALs that the previous spartan generations where. Any special forces unit needs gruints to hold the line where they are not. And the better equipped the grunt is, the better it can hold the line.
Not really. 117 disobeyed orders for love and loyalty. Hes no less fallible than any of the fours in this respect. And you can debate about the worthiness of others as Spartans all you want but this video is not ultimately about that.
Why Pandora's box? I think they have enough knowledge that this is not actually a danger, but a benefit to humanity! Seriously, this Star Trek esque "Superhumans will always strive to dominate other humans" schtick simply sucks especially since if isn't true! That is like saying all tall and strong humans will turn into bullies, when in reality it is the socialization that will determin what happens! With great parents etc. those advanced humans will probably benefit humanity as a whole!
@@dreamingflurry2729 And why would you assume their parents are going to be great? Their parents are ordinary flawed and sometimes damaged humans made into Spartans. And if we've seen anything with Humans, including Haloverse, they create conflict where there are differences, imbalances, inequality. It could be the "normies" that turn on the genetic "freaks" ala x-men. It could be a splinter group of genetic superiors determined they are better than what they are serving and choose to start their own civilization ala the clans of battletech or Khan of star trek. There are a myriad of possibilities and who knows what genetic abnormalities or aberrations crop up in the synthetic evolution of mankind. Space travel itself is always supposed to bring a golden age to humanity where we unite together and stop letting our differences define us. And what happens? New difference crop up, like the Colonies (Inner/Outer) and Earth Prime. There wouldn't be a story to tell in Hslo without conflict, whether internal (humanity) or external (alien).
@@dreamingflurry2729 this isn't the "this guy is taller and stronger" it's "this guy is literally half/full superhuman" I.e. It will breed a massive amount of inequality... Eugenics anyone?
Came back to this after playing Halo: Infinite and I’ll say this: the Spartan IVs who we find slain were worthy of the title. Five or more months on Zeta Halo, forced to take the reins and without any hope of support from off world…and yet they all fought to the end. Especially Spartan Griffin .
You arent wrong but I think that it's more the tenacity and postwar human behaviour that made them resist so long. It's because of this that the Covenant war was so long, im pretty sure that in the 4s gen where many good soldiers, more over the ODST Army & Marines veterans that take the augmentations but the others they were "rush" jobs without the screening of 2s gens (3s not so much) as well as the streamlining the process making the more cheap more human but not as effective as 2s and 3s even if this ones where silver bulets
Ya.......... this is actually a good thing. Humanity in Halo is incredibly outgunned physically by almost every single race in the covenant. Hell, ripping humans apart was literally a GAME for the brures. Any increase in humanities physical prowess would be a bigger asset than liability when competing against these alien threats. The proliferation ability of Spartan 4s is actually probably something ONI wants as you can be damn sure this would have occurred to them.
You forgot about the fact that the rebellion won't just dissapear, not everyone is a UNSC loyalist, when you have what are essentially super humans rebelling, it's a bit harder to quell than regular humans. Don't forget, the original inspiration for the spartan program was the insurrectionists, UNSC were losing.
Though by human nature they could be the next man man genocide. There might be a rather large group of people that believe ONI is the new illuminati and may go on a witch hunt as being unnatural freaks. Another thing is that because of the genetic tempering the Spartans past on could affect their mentality that they CANT function without military indoctrination at an early stage because they become super human psychopaths
Let's be real here too, the UNSC wasn't really the good guy before the Covenant arrived. They weren't necessarily the bad guy either, but they were headed that direction...as the Spartan project and the Spartan II's original missions point out.
I asumed the same thing better baseline some augmentations you would not need to perform and i would think less of a chance of rejection of futher augmentation
spartan 2 3 and 4s cannot have children just like the space marines in warhammer 40k the augmentations render their desire to and ability to procreate null and void.
@@michaelkean5969 2 and 3? yes the four are still pretty much normal, heck the opening scene from spartan ops shows that one of spartan 4 want to flirt to commander palmer
The Human’s Covenant: Grunts: Marines Jackals: ODST’s Hunters: Operators Elites: Real Spartans Brutes: Spartan .1’s & .2’s Prophets: ONI Edit: This is not meant to be a 1:1 comparison and equivalent. I’m saying that this is how a human version of the covenant would lay out.
So if everyone could be super soldiers. Then that becomes normal. So then what will we do to make the next super soldiers? How far will we go? What lines are we willing to cross?
IDK. Ask the forerunners. Also Halsey didn't seem to care much when passing legal and moral lines so I don't know how far a military eugenics program would go.
@@seanmcgrath3826 What *EVER* made you think that? I mean, ONI *TOTALLY* isn't trying to experiment with Flood genetic makeup and bacterium to try and make the next breed of Spartan Super Soldier. *TOTALLY* not at all!
@@agentmaryland1239 Thank you for correcting me. Whatever was I thinking? ONI would never do anything so awful or immoral; they only want to PROTECT humanity and its allies. Every. Single. Individual. One. Of. Them!
You can't blame Spartan-IV's, they are literally what happens when you make legends such as the Spartan II's and III's, have soldiers look up to them and this is what happens when you give them the opportunity to become a Spartan, yes it will go to their head, yes veterans do get cocky and hell, even use it to make connections. Looking at the augs for Spartan-IV's there doesn't seem to be anything going as deep as DNA, closest thing is altered nerve cells to speed up reaction so if say Spartan-IV's did have kids, they wouldn't be much different as most if not all augs are implants.
I think the IVs get telemere lengthening that will supposedly keep them combat capable for over a century and improving the effectiveness of their chondrocytes to improve cartilage I think.
@@hartianx1698 Yeah so not much on their DNA but we haven't seen long term Spartan-IV's yet, hell even II's or those from the Orian project, evidence is Johnson at near 70's when he died and he was still fighting
@@VallornDeathblade that's where you're wrong, it was Oni's idea to make the Spartans a boost for the morale In Humanity post the Original covenant war. It's even mentioned by the director of Halo 4.
@@zalrohglekgolo6149 ONI Section 3 created them before the covenant war to take down rebel groups. During the covenant war ONI Section 2 decided to selectively 'leak' information about the Spartan 2s to improve morale (since the Covenant were otherwise steamrolling Humanity), this is where myths like Spartans only ever being listed as MIA and never KIA came from. The Spartan programs ended up coming fully into the light post war because they kind of had to, not because they wanted to.
The scene where Majestic was in that engagement with the promethans, and Hoya just steps out of cover and gets clapped was all the proof I needed the Spartan-IVs weren’t true Spartans
Eh, the only real reason there were only a million or two Astartes from the beginning was so that they couldn’t overthrow and rule humanity as it currently was. The Imperium certainly has the resources to make more Astartes than that
They are a disappointing era of the Spartan Program, the High Ground Council, including Chief, was in complete agreement that they are indeed a liability
The thing is they aren't inherently loyal to the UNSC and UEG there have already been Spartan 4s that have become insurrectionists. So we have people with miltary gene enhancements running around to do what they want.
Aside from potential Insurrectionists running around with inherited SPARTAN augmentations, there may be a possibility that the kids may go their own route. "A superior man breeds superior ambition."
I read a great fanfic set after Spartan Ops where Chief's called in to turn the Spartan IVs into Spartans. Very well written. 'Consequences of Revelation'.
Which is kind of sad! Chief is kind of a soldier-robot that happens to be biological! Seriously, yes he is not 100% a mindless drone, but 90%? Sure! Hell, he has no hobbies, no person life, no true personality! I pity MC, despite the fact that he's a badass in combat!
I’ve personally inferred from the lore that the augmentations of Spartans are really just bringing humanity back up to the standard they were at in prehistory, and that their children disseminating the augmentations into the general population was part of the greater plan by the librarian to help humans in their reclaimation of their legacy, do you think this is something 343 intends to be the case or do you think the Spartans are always going to be something special and stand outs amongst the rest of humanity even thousands of years into the halo universe’s future?
The natural integration of the Spartan formula was part of the Plan by Halsey, Oni is aware of and they don't Necessarily disagree with. Also the human nature of the Spartan IVs is one of the best things about them, the nature of the IIs is a byproduct of a necessity of that time, now we can create Spartans who feel like real people. Also, in the original 3 books the Spartans all had playful banter that feels like this just not about sex. I have a generally different opinion, but I think your missing the forest for the trees here.
I suppose you could see it like our own progression of time. What was once considered necessity in say, the 1960's, has been reiterated and improved upon by now and has been readily made accessible to the masses. In the early 2500's, the Spartans were needed to crush a rebellion that would have severely weakened Humanity's forces. The technology was strong, but weak enough that only a few could actually attain such power. In the late 2500's anyone can be a Spartan provided they are adequately healthy enough and have the drive to be a soldier. The technology is weakened slightly, but is strong enough to almost replicate what once was.
@@agentmaryland1239 yes, it's a great and honest analogy as long as we remember that technology after the covenant war is still way better. it's like you implied, the Spartans later are almost as good as the earlier gen, but that's because we finally had the ability to make everyone a spartan which is objectively the goal.
Torino Deguzman I see both yours and installation 00s. I feel like the bar would be set very high and the IVs feel like a B team should the Augmented tech spread sure but should they be called Spartans? I’m not sure. They come off as to normal it’s just a bit to jarring at least in my opinion
@@torinodeguzman4243 The USMC is not a good model for all soldiers, everywhere. It is a deliberate part of their selection and training that they believe that a few good Marines can accomplish any mission, anywhere, any time, otherwise it might be hard to persuade them to get into nearly unarmoured landing craft and make an opposed landing against fortified positions with semi-auto rifles. The boots and short service members might talk that way, but you tend to get a different vibe from senior NCOs and ORs with some length of service, and especially some real combat experience. They've seen a lot of the motor-mouths come and go, and too often go feet first. I happen to know a couple of UK soldiers and Royal Marines, and their experiences and opinions of the USMC (and US forces in general) are, shall we say, mixed. The more they like to talk about how badass they are, the less likely it is to be true
Dr Halsey would approve of this video. Sidenote: I'd also be very intimidated if my wife was 6ft6, could bench warthogs and was an ex spec ops super soldier... Imagine getting into an argument! I'd be dead before I hit the ground. :(
Indeed, power imbalances to that degree in relationships kind of suck! That's why I never understand how normal people can date any of the following: Vampire, Sorcreress/Mage, super-soldier etc. - you can't even argue with them because on slip and you are freaking paste!
@@Installation00 it should be asked to 343 to think about this maybe some kind of illnes wich the kids could develop wich is the reason the unsc does not allow this to keep spartans more focussed on mission or mission's so they might not fail...
I mean, this is what Halsey meant when she said that the Spartans were the "next step" for human evolution, no? Unless she expected her great Spartan evolution to stop with the Spartan III program? Humanity won't evolve unless the Spartan genes are released into the general population. More nerd rant: I also think that this is what happened to the Forerunners (if one sticks to the original Bungie story of Forerunners being ancient humans); genetic manipulation is what allowed the Forerunners to conquer the galaxy (one of the leading factors, anyway). Why else, out of all the ancient races, were the Forerunners the ones to preserve the genetic material of the other races?
I agree, but the Forerunners weren't suppose to be the ones to preserve the other races. They stole that honor from Ancient Humanity by hunting down the Primordials and Knee capping Humanity while they fought the Flood.
i think this was an expected outcome by the UNSC as with every generation there would be a likely need to increase the recruitment pole for Spartan units later on. in fact other than the fact most spartan 4 augmentations only give humans the strength of a small brownbear( 300 pounds as the smallest). its not like the Spartan 2 and 3 variations which are much stronger and more likely to have children with abnormalities due to the augmentations. it would also make sense as ONI elements might make use of procreation to make cheaper augments that allows the spartan 3 or 2 style enhancements more viable for special ops. just looking at it if planned right ONI could be using the urges of Spartan 4( why would they have the urge when the augmentations should allow either sterilization or limited sex drives). thats my thoughts as the spreading of the Gen 4 augmentations are rather milder than the previous.
Spartan IV augmentations are arguably better than the Spartan III augmentations. Coupled with Mjolnir, they are much stronger than a brown bear, lol. That makes zero sense.
@@zenoohshit5498 well the augmentations in S4 are less drastic than S2 or S3 units so having S4.1 children can allow for S3 upgrades but more cost effectiveness.
Barry Bend S3 Augmentations weren’t even that drastic. It was a dramatic improvement from the SII augmentations. They are quid essentially the same as the SIV augmentations. Though I’m going to argue that the SIV augments are fat superior, just because they whole purpose of the SIII class was to create expendable super soldiers; excluding Gamma Company.
@@zenoohshit5498 well I was just pointing out S3 and 2 augments are on a level higher than the S4. For a comparison I compare the S4 to the astartes while S3 are Custodies( they even share the same expendability) and the S2 to Thunderwarriors from 40K. While all are possible the S4 are much easier to produce. Though unlike 40K you can pass along the genes of spartans to new generations.
Gen2 mjonir armor (the armor given directly to spartan 4s) increases their levels to near if not at spartan 2 and 3 levels. But the full training is lacking as both the spartan 2 and 3s had efficient training.
when I listen to the last clip I think Halsey saw this coming. I also agree the 4s are a liability. the spartan program should have followed the 2s model with some of the 3 program thrown in. But there is potential up side to having the 4s get busy with the rest of humanity. How strong and fast would the children or grandchildren of the 4s be if they were given spartan augmentation.
Except the first batch of Spartan 4's seen in Halo 4 were gung ho because they had joined the ranks of the famous spartans and thought themselves invincible. The events of Halo 4 put a hole in that. Which is why in the lore, between Halo 4 and Halo 5, Chief Mendez and his team of specialist trainers as well as a team of surviving Spartan III's were ordered to train and drill the Spartan IV's. In the lore, by the time of Halo 5, the IV's had been fully disciplined and had good practice ingrained in them. According to the lore, what times they arent deployed they spend training (marksmanship, hand to hand/martial arts, etc). And from what we see of the Spartan IV's in Halo 5, they are far more disciplined than the gung ho ones we see in Halo 4.
Something that would be interesting is if some parts of Ancient Humanity had survived the Forerunner-Flood war and left the galaxy and became a nomadic civilization that appears to be similar to the Triglavians in Eve Online and they return to the galaxy to retake it and they would see the Forerunner made humans as inferior and a threat to their traditions and culture so they try to purge them. That would be a interesting future story of past civilizations returning to the galaxy as different factions with their own cultures and traditions could have endless possibilities of lore. Turning Halo into something similar to Homeworld in storytelling.
Sounds like a fanfiction I read a long time ago. I didn't agree with a number of things that the author did; mostly in regards to the Master Chief, the insinuations made about the main protagonist (No, John-117 isn't *the* main protagonist, though he does still have a prevalent role to play), and how the general tone and path of the story seemed to have shifted. The biggest issue I had with this story was that the author seemed to have abandoned this work. So, you can still read this story if you want. m.fanfiction.net/s/9148451/1/The-return-of-the-forgotten-empire
Sounds like something out of Battlestar Galactica or Stargate. I really like the idea of another human faction that is culturally distinct from the UNSC
This idea would greatly conflict with the expanded lore. Both humanity and the the forerunners were cousin species created by the precursors and technological equals before the ancient flood intervention. The novels do however hint to ancient humanity’s “survival” in some form or another.
These Spartan 1.1 would make for interesting stories. What would happen if they decide to join the UNSC and have Spartan 4 augs done? Possibilities are there.
I love how in these videos you bring actual science to explain lore. Like this brings me back to some of my anatomy, biology classes while incorporating my next favorite topic, Halo. It’s just so well done, awesome video man.
I think Spartans having children and creating a 'better' humanity is part of Hallsey's plan considering she called them "Humanity's Next step, our destination as a species."
“... they are our next step. Our destiny as a species...” I think Halsey knew the UNSC would make something like the S4’s and let it happen. (Edit: I was writing this just before he said it)
You may have have forgotten that Randall 037 had a child, Natalie and was born in 2545 a year before Randall's augmentations was reduced by ONI. I don't think it was ever confirmed Maria had a kid.
Honestly Spartan IV's would seem like children to Spartan II's and Spartan III's - they are what Humanity would call 'Spartans' Disciplined. I believe Chief and Noble Six would be there respective example of a perfected Spartan II and Spartan III. Hyper Lethal and as Six's previous CO's stated prior to Noble Squad, he was their literal, personal grim reaper. It's why when I see Locke and his squad taking on Chief and blue team, I can't help but giggle, Spartan IV's v Spartan 2's would be akin to tossing a child against a Lion.
I believe the fact that the Spartan IVs debated as easily killable soldiers when Master Chief first encountered them really showed how inferior they were to the other Spartans from any other games. I doubt the vast majority of IVs will ever achieve some the feats we’ve witnessed in the games, comics, novels, and other media.
Woah...I never thought about this before. Personally, if this does happen...then Halsey's prediction of her Spartans being the Next Step, and the advancement in Human Evolution as seen by the Librarian, would be proven right...we are in interesting times.
I despise the fact that these unprofessional, undisciplined prior military hotheads were allowed to become Spartans. The UNSC should’ve moved all enhancements over to the ODST branch. Spartans should’ve remained elite in every way.
Well propaganda wise it would make it look like the Spartans were now everywhere and that the military was recovering and massing strength post-war after it's near extinction. Most likely also new Spartans would return to the shadows as originally intended to keep the most effective units secret. Think of it as we see Marine Recon and Rangers deployed, but Delta Force remains hidden
I see this as oni’s recompense for the spartan II child test subjects who died on the operating table and those who survived having their humanity forcibly stripped away in the name of progress
Are any of the spartan 2 candidates spartan 1 offspring by any chance I mean it would make sense as to why they were the highest genetics wise if they were already enhanced a generation before.
So the UNSC could try recruiting the (adult) children of Spartans. If some augmentations can be passed on, then it would likely be easier and safer to bring them up to spartan level, or even beyond Spartan IV level strength.
That video was incredibly mind numbing with all the genetic speak...at least for me. That being said...I don't think introducing potential evolutionary enhancements that would help the race as a whole to survive would be a bad thing.
I think the Spartan IV program is the best program, but it produces the least effective soldiers who can wear Mjolnir armor. My reasoning is that even though the IIs are the best, the fact that it was the smallest program with incredibly high costs makes it not as successful as it could’ve been. Plus there are the extremely unethical parts to consider. The IIIs are not as good as the IIs, but they had more units and were cheaper. However, their use as disposable supersoldiers was a bad idea. However, there were not as many washouts, if any. The IVs don’t have an ethically challenged program, they are given better equipment than the IIIs, the IVs only suffer from not being as great as their predecessors. They are still good, and come from military veterans.
They should have never branded it 'Spartan 4s'. I think they'd have more luck refitting ODSTs with mjoilner, after all they are special forces, highly trained, disciplined, *professional* Both in the way they perform in combat and how they conduct themselves outside of it too, and don't crack under pressure. Not to mention the fact they're deserving of the title, they jump from orbit with the possibility of death in every jump. I'd imagine the chance of them having rebel sympathy would be less likely because only the best of the best make it through ODST training.
Given what Halsey said about Spartan 2's being humanity's destiny as a species, and what the Librarian said about the Spartans being planned via genetic planning by the Forerunners, and given that ancient humans were supposedly closer to Spartans than ordinary people, could this be intentional? Could Spartan genetic augmentations spreading throughout humanity have been intentionally planned by the Librarian, to restore humanity to its pre-deevolution state?
Fireteam Majestic does learn and many if them later earn the Title of Spartan. Personal growth via trial by fire. Also Majestic DEMONSTRATED that anyone can become a Spartan but not everyone is born one. Fireteam Crimson was designed to showcase a team of "born Spartans" and why they always beat the "made Sapratns" of Majestic and why Osiris, a Fireteam made of the absolute BEST operators outside of Blue was leagues above even Crimson. And Buck has been wanting children with Dare. Spartan 4.1s are pretty inevtiable.
DeMarco sacrifices himself in a mission (taken place after Spartan Ops) to ensure the survival of his fireteam. If there's one theme I see consistent with Spartans, it is sacrifice. I find it quite shallow to judge Spartan IVs based on their fireteam banter.
Halsey herself said at the beginning of Halo 4... "(my Spartans are) the next step in humanity's evolution" I think the IVs having kids is... well... just part of the wider and upcoming lore for Halo. After all, Chief and Blue Team are nearly in their fifties, and most of the IIIs got wiped out. We, realistically, only have a few more in-game decades with Chief before the inevitable comes. People need to accept the IVs for what they are- to quote Halsey once again... the next step.
Demarco: * Served for years as an ODST, gaining a fair amount of tactical skill and experience. Augmentations made him nearly on par in size with Spartan-II’s in armor. He also possesed a knack for leadership that led him to be assigned to command not just one but two separate Spartan fireteams during his career. Is sometimes brash and cocky (ya know, like a human and especially any soldier would be) but is ultimately a great soldier and even sacrifices himself for the greater good * Halo fans who don’t like sprint: “JuSt AnOtHeR fAkE sPaRtAn!!”
I do know one thing. The one person that doesn’t care whether a spartan is a one, two, three, or four is John 117. John is a team player. In his mind they’re ALL his brothers and he wants them to survive. When he sees any spartan die it breaks his heart. Just look at his reaction to the dead Spartans in halo infinite. They were 4s and He was heartbroken about their deaths. It was like looking at a father losing a son or a man losing his brother. I personally think that some fans out there are too hard on the Spartan 4s. I’m not gonna judge the entire group based on a few that we’ve seen in some Cut scenes in spartan ops. The ones that we meet in halo infinite were pretty cool and they fought well. Also I’m glad they stopped kidnapping kids. I mean I’m glad we have the master chief but still what Halsey did was messed up.
Quantity over quality. Honestly to call this new generation of Spartan 4 Spartans is a disservice to genuine Spartans there more like just augmented ODSTs or marines. To quote dr Halsey “first we taught them to be silent then we taught them to be Spartans. Though they are a good representation of how too big (for its own good) and too arrogant the UNSC had become post halo 3.
@@ragemonkey117 how often do you see veterans become terrorists in real life? They still wouldn't have spartan training unless they got selected for the spartan program. In that case there is no difference between them and any other spartan going rogue
Exactly! A trained 60 year old soldier will probably win against almost all "civilians" (except those who practice martial arts competitively) half his age, despite the fact that he has a slower reaction time and is physically weaker!
I think this plays into the new narrative direction of spartan projects being "superior humans" rather than "super soldiers". In a way this makes sense considering the project was guided by the Librarian's geas, leading which mimics Foreruuner's use of genetic technology of creating individuals to suit their purpose, of artificially creating a biological caste system, rather than current Humanity's organizational occupations. It also presents how the UNSC doesn't care or think about the bigger picture, they needed soldiers for wars, charges head-strong into morally and philosophically distributing areas just for the purpose of keeping their empire running. Either way, I'm not looking forward to neither possibilities of such storytelling, the current lore is implementing weird storytelling concept that'll, in my opinion, leave many confused or outright disagreeing.
I think a good portion of S-IV were ODST and other SpecOps soldiers. SpecOps operators tend to be more cocky because they are pretty much the best of the best. You see that a lot in our current militaries. This kind of thing happens in today's world. I guess in 500 years it still exists.
The problem with Spartan IV's is the fact that you can't give someone so much power and then allow them to just roam free. It's incredible unsafe for everyone involved.
The 4's should never have been called Spartans. Centurions or something, but not Spartans. They should remain special, since they had everything taken from them to make them what they are. The 4's come off as an insult to that because they never had to sacrifice anything to become 4's. tl;dr: I don't lament the 4s' existence, but they shouldn't have been called Spartans
I think all Spartan IVs should be chemical sterilize because : 1) to prevent them to have children and all the problems that came with that 2) to make them true Spartans who only live for battle without the possibility of a normal life, basically one less distraction.
Only ones I even like are augmented Alpha Nine (Buck and his old ODST team), and Olympia Vale, Sangheili linguist. Even then, out of all the named S-IV’s, Buck is the ONLY one worthy of being called a Spartan. The rest, ESPECIALLY Palmer are nothing but ODST’s on Rumble Drugs.
I gotta give Palmer one thing, she is Spartan through and through, she won't pull stupid shit like the other 4s that are like majestic, she knows what her being one means, she is more off Will from the book fall of reach, one of the few Spartan-IIs that kept a sense of humor and would make jokes, buck and Palmer will be the only two ever considered a Spartan, because she don't like Halsey but she does hold respect for the Legacy she created, she respects all S-IIs she comes into contact with, one of the reasons she has that standing in my eyes, she respects the true Spartans and has also been called by some one of the few Spartan IV who wear the name properly
@@ralphforbes5807 the only reason "fans" hate her is because she talked smack to Master chief even tho it was literally confirmed in a novel that she did that to look "tough" in the presence of a living legend one she grew up on and someone who she sees as a literal hero of Olympus it's stated in the books that she was fangirling like crazy at the sight of him. but like chief she's military disciplined.
I wonder to what degree the native augmentations would affect the development of the children. Being born with and naturally adjusting to the capabilities of an enhanced body as opposed to medically administered augmentations at a later stage of life where there is a possibility of rejection and a considerable adjustment period... could these native abilities then be further advanced upon with additional augmentations? Would these individuals perhaps be more capable than a medically (post conception) augmented human? Is there a benchmark to compare against in lore?
I never understood why fans get so pissy about the Spartan IVs. Humanity is hilariously underpowered in this setting. Every major alien faction is more advanced, more numerous, and vastly more physically powerful than humanity. The horrendously unethical SPARTAN III program was one of many terrible things done to try to make up for this massive power gap, and it barely worked.
After seeing the success of the Spartan program as being one of the only things giving some measure of advantage, why would any sane military NOT attempt to replicate it on a larger scale. Especially if it can be done without resorting to atrocities like those used to make the IIs and IIIs. Even if the IVs are half as good as a II, that’s still a massive step up from the basic marines that get slaughtered en masse by individual Elites.
Chief is still as special as ever. He didn’t drop in quality just because other soldiers aren’t completely helpless in his presence.
I've got no issue with humanity becoming more powerful and augmentations being rolled out to larger portions of the military. My issue stems from the nomenclature. Augment humans, that's absolutely fine. Just don't call them Spartans. Spartans, by their very definition, especially on regards to their historical origins, are children trained from an early age to be the greatest warriors in the world. The 4s were not children, they were adults. So they're not Spartans.
Might make a video on this, where I explore how and why the 4s are given a tough time. Mind if I reference your comment?
Installation00 Sure. I’m good with that. Just keep in mind that the name, both in and out of universe, was applied to them because it references the now-legendary warriors like Chief. It’s much easier to get recruits for your new program if you brand it as a way to become like the hero who saved humanity from its darkest hour.
Basic Marines don't get slaughtered, they can hold their own they know what they are doing. Normal people don't even get slaughtered unless it's Jackles and Brutes doing the killing. Elites don't find it honorable to kill those that do not plan on fighting and they respect humans. Grunts don't want to be there in the first place and hunters just seem like they do whatever the elites tell them to do. Humans aren't outclassed as much as you think. Odsts can take a damn gravity hammer to the chest and survive. Marines have survived countless wars which in return they get turned into odsts. That doesn't happen our of the blue man and there are tons of odst to prove it. With just a knife and odst took down a brute...what's stopping any normal human from doing that? Fear. Once you get over your fear and let determination take you over then you'll be in good shape. Humans are naturally powerful but our brains don't allow us to use all that power or we hurt ourselves. This is why we have pain receptors and why we can paralyze ourselves in various scenarios like sleep for example. We are a species that revolve around adapting quickly. We don't take millions of years to evolve into something crazy, we do that in a hundred.
Steven Jones You know what strategists call someone who relies entirely on “determination” to face massively overpowering opposition? It’s “morons”.
How many marines die for you to get maybe three that have short bursts of hysterical strength that might help them overcome the basic swipe of an Elite once, at the costs of breaking their arms? Will you be “determined” enough to ignore a plasma blast dissolving your armor? Stop thinking in pure videogame terms and see it in semi-realistically. An ODST can barely survive ridiculous punishment in-game, but in a real setting, that isn’t why happens when facing weapons that break tanks. This isn’t shonen anime or something. “Determination” doesn’t overcome everything.
That’s just on a purely small infantry level. On a larger level, marines were getting slaughtered by the droves. The Covenant was driving humanity near extinction. The population was cut down to a small fraction of what it once was by the end. Now humanity faces not only their remnants, but enemy factions that greatly outclass them. No sane person is going to reject a method of making better soldiers to at least attempt to prepare to fight these threats.
@@Mgauge I think my biggest problem steps off the line of strategy, and logic and i just roll my eyes whenever i see the annoying ass written characters that are the spartan 4s, but thats just me
I believe we found the plot of Halo 8: Child Support
The greatest enemy of mankind 😂
@Robert Smith what if they accdiantly commit a murrder?
@@zyncwargaming179 Master chief killed 4 odst’s 14 out of 27 marines and 2 pilots.
Play on easy as a female
Or unbeatable as a male, that's how they'll need to make the difficulty levels.
I bet you money that active duty Spartans get some kind of birth control implant.
So what you’re saying is there needs to be a lifeguard in the gene pool?
*blows whistle*
NO RUNNING
You, out of the gene pool!
NO DIVING
WE GOT A FLOATER
SOMEONE PEED EVERYONE OUT
It was bound to happen as soon as they perfected the augmentations enough to not need children. The II’s have never known anything but war and training, they can’t remember a life outside of that. Most of the threes died outside of Gama Company and the 4’s are essentially Tony Starks.. good soldiers, but normal people elevated to demigod status. That doesn’t weed out assholes and bad people. Those people can be awesome soldiers and also be someone I don’t want to be around. As you can notice I stopped 3 mins in to comment on your first point.. playing the rest now haha
As someone with experience in enlisted military, I can assure you it's more common than you think. Really good people as a troop, potentially scummy as an individual person.. or as you put it: people you don't always want to be around.
Military has a huge problem with gangs getting training then using that in gang warfare or vs cold .
@@TellisTorterra Or as my father (navy) always tells me, "There's a reason for the military court".
Spartan gen 1: the original
Spartan gen2: the best
Spartan gen3: the emergency
Spartan gen4: why
Because microsoft need to sell xboxes
Wong Tik Ki what does Xbox’s have to do with why the spartan IVs exist
@@sorcererberoll4641 halo is the exclusive title that come out with each new generation of xboxes, no?
@@dickiewongtk not anymore pc have it now
Truth
So you DO believe the Master Chief did in fact succeed because he was at his core, broken.
One part of halo I used to love ODST's and the fact you was the last spartan
Yes. Any sane man would have given up and died, or killed himself.
@@Mortablunt do you even understand my reference?
@@Starlesslemon
I played Halo 4.
@@Mortablunt no he is same that's why he's doing this. He understand what it takes, if he doesn't then that's the end for humanity and that's it. He has nothing to lose
I just realized that the return of blue team was foreshadowed in the intro to halo 4.
"MY spartans are humanity's next step, our destiny as a species... *dont underestimate them*, and more importantly, dont underestimate HIM."
I think she knew Blue team was alive. She also might have just been speaking in the past tense (Don't underestimate my Novels) because she was jail and didn't think she'd be getting out.
Of course she knew Blue Team was alive... the books went over hew being with Blue Team on Reach and getting rescued, I think in First Strike, set between Halo and Halo 2
Yes yes, but as the audience, we didnt know they were coming back as characters in the games. This was such a subtle hint, that im sure most missed it for years. I sure did.
Josh Reyes I think they wanted 4 player co op to incentivize having friends by separate copies and not play split screen.
But as Joe Rogan would say “it’s entirely possible”
No it’s a reference to Her Spartans vs the IIIs and IVs.
The new Spartan 4s are just overly cocky ODST's with energy shields. Change my mind.
They were in Halo 4. BY Halo 5, they've had the gung ho cockyness drilled and trained out of them by Jun, a few other surviving Spartan III's and Chief Mendez and his team of specialist training personnel.
@@titytitmk2738 you dont even see them in halo 5 which is depressing. Hated so badly they werent even in the game XD
Chief Mendez is located within the Onyx Dyson Sphere, overseeing a joint UNSC/Swords of Sanghelios operation.
@@slumberingember
Bruh u play most of the game as a spartan 4
You have to be a moron cast an entire class of Spartans based off one superficial representation of a fire team. Majestic that is. How many fire teams are there?
"Your mistake is thinking of Spartans as military hardware, my Spartans are humanity's next step in evolution" C. Halsey.
Never thought i'd get the "birds and bee's" talk from a halo lore chanel.
How do birds and bees have sex? I still don't get it!?!?
My parents never gave me the talk, this is my first time hearing it be explained by someone out loud lol
I love paleontology and zoology and I learned about human reproduction from that or rather I figured it out from such study’s
Fireteam Fratboy are a mistake in general. The idea that you can just shove Spartan level augmentations into these people to make them into Spartans without the strict level of indoctrination and long term training that made the Spartan 2s humanity's finest warriors, or the traumas and then high-intensity training of the Spartan 3s into highly effective, team-oriented soldiers even without Mjolnir... Well it's just absurd.
Spartans are much more than just their augmentations or equipment. I would say what makes a human into a Spartan is primarily the unmatched training and the close-knit, almost familial bonds between Spartans that result from that, including the secret, insular code phrases known only to Spartan operatives and noone else. The armour and augmentations just allow them to utilize this training to the highest degree possible.
Even without augmentations I feel as if the Spartan 2s would be the most elite unit in the UNSC due to their lifetime of training and experience. (Though their mortality rate would certainly be higher)
I think a problem with Spartan IV's is largely in a way how they're portrayed vs. what they actually are.
They're portrayed as the next generation of spartan, but they are not that.
Spartan IV's are essentially "normal" soldiers (compared to other Spartans) with Spartan-level aguments and armor. And whilst it's true that this does not replace the training of a previous-generation Spartan, it does allow the soldier to use their own, less impressive training to a far superior extent then what they could do without the Spartan augments.
They're to spartans II's and III's what a common soldier is to a special forces soldier. They're the comparatively untrained marine to the SEALs that the previous spartan generations where.
Any special forces unit needs gruints to hold the line where they are not. And the better equipped the grunt is, the better it can hold the line.
@@platiuscyndar9017 Thinking of the Spartan IVs as Spartan footsloggers made my day. Thanks.
Not really. 117 disobeyed orders for love and loyalty. Hes no less fallible than any of the fours in this respect. And you can debate about the worthiness of others as Spartans all you want but this video is not ultimately about that.
The only reason the spartan 2s were taken as children is because the old augmentations only worked if given to children.
Halsey said Spartans are the future of Humanity.
She couldn't have been more right with Pandora's box being opened with the Spartan IV's.
Why Pandora's box? I think they have enough knowledge that this is not actually a danger, but a benefit to humanity! Seriously, this Star Trek esque "Superhumans will always strive to dominate other humans" schtick simply sucks especially since if isn't true! That is like saying all tall and strong humans will turn into bullies, when in reality it is the socialization that will determin what happens! With great parents etc. those advanced humans will probably benefit humanity as a whole!
@@dreamingflurry2729 And why would you assume their parents are going to be great? Their parents are ordinary flawed and sometimes damaged humans made into Spartans.
And if we've seen anything with Humans, including Haloverse, they create conflict where there are differences, imbalances, inequality.
It could be the "normies" that turn on the genetic "freaks" ala x-men. It could be a splinter group of genetic superiors determined they are better than what they are serving and choose to start their own civilization ala the clans of battletech or Khan of star trek. There are a myriad of possibilities and who knows what genetic abnormalities or aberrations crop up in the synthetic evolution of mankind.
Space travel itself is always supposed to bring a golden age to humanity where we unite together and stop letting our differences define us.
And what happens? New difference crop up, like the Colonies (Inner/Outer) and Earth Prime.
There wouldn't be a story to tell in Hslo without conflict, whether internal (humanity) or external (alien).
@@dreamingflurry2729 this isn't the "this guy is taller and stronger" it's "this guy is literally half/full superhuman" I.e. It will breed a massive amount of inequality... Eugenics anyone?
Pandora's box... or a dick in a box? Hahahaha.....Sorry, I'll leave now...
AdamantSilver yep
Came back to this after playing Halo: Infinite and I’ll say this: the Spartan IVs who we find slain were worthy of the title. Five or more months on Zeta Halo, forced to take the reins and without any hope of support from off world…and yet they all fought to the end.
Especially Spartan Griffin .
You arent wrong but I think that it's more the tenacity and postwar human behaviour that made them resist so long. It's because of this that the Covenant war was so long, im pretty sure that in the 4s gen where many good soldiers, more over the ODST Army & Marines veterans that take the augmentations but the others they were "rush" jobs without the screening of 2s gens (3s not so much) as well as the streamlining the process making the more cheap more human but not as effective as 2s and 3s even if this ones where silver bulets
Ya.......... this is actually a good thing. Humanity in Halo is incredibly outgunned physically by almost every single race in the covenant. Hell, ripping humans apart was literally a GAME for the brures. Any increase in humanities physical prowess would be a bigger asset than liability when competing against these alien threats. The proliferation ability of Spartan 4s is actually probably something ONI wants as you can be damn sure this would have occurred to them.
You forgot about the fact that the rebellion won't just dissapear, not everyone is a UNSC loyalist, when you have what are essentially super humans rebelling, it's a bit harder to quell than regular humans. Don't forget, the original inspiration for the spartan program was the insurrectionists, UNSC were losing.
Though by human nature they could be the next man man genocide. There might be a rather large group of people that believe ONI is the new illuminati and may go on a witch hunt as being unnatural freaks.
Another thing is that because of the genetic tempering the Spartans past on could affect their mentality that they CANT function without military indoctrination at an early stage because they become super human psychopaths
Humans were forcibly unevolved by the Forerunners after the Human- Forerunner war. Spartans are just returning to that level.
Let's be real here too, the UNSC wasn't really the good guy before the Covenant arrived. They weren't necessarily the bad guy either, but they were headed that direction...as the Spartan project and the Spartan II's original missions point out.
@@Grimulfr Its the WH40k morality question: does humanity need to be a united front once we discover space travel amd become an interstellar species?
Wouldn't they acctually encourage Spartan 4's to have children in order to produce 4.1's? creating a base in the population from which to recruit?
There will most likely be deformities from the augmentations.
@@torianjones9591 not really there is a possibility but we dont know the tech they have then so maybe they wont.
I asumed the same thing better baseline some augmentations you would not need to perform and i would think less of a chance of rejection of futher augmentation
spartan 2 3 and 4s cannot have children
just like the space marines in warhammer 40k the augmentations render their desire to and ability to procreate null and void.
@@michaelkean5969 2 and 3? yes
the four are still pretty much normal, heck the opening scene from spartan ops shows that one of spartan 4 want to flirt to commander palmer
Seems like humanity is naturally reverting back to how they were before the forerunners de-evolved them.
Are we talking about 343s characters or current events?
It's still too slow
@@DaSquareful
Perhaps both?
@@DaSquareful
Perhaps both?
The Human’s Covenant:
Grunts: Marines
Jackals: ODST’s
Hunters: Operators
Elites: Real Spartans
Brutes: Spartan .1’s & .2’s
Prophets: ONI
Edit: This is not meant to be a 1:1 comparison and equivalent. I’m saying that this is how a human version of the covenant would lay out.
Schneeflocke Monsoon where’s ODST
@@BOOMGUY-ez7gg ODST = Spec Ops elites
Everything: Tank
Dude even spartan 2s couldn't match brutes in a straightforward physical challenge
@@Phantom6.6.6 they more than match them on adrenaline, hell even one ripped a hunter in half...
So if everyone could be super soldiers.
Then that becomes normal.
So then what will we do to make the next super soldiers? How far will we go? What lines are we willing to cross?
Mechanized super soldiers with augmented physiology and armament while able to be digitized back and forth.
IDK. Ask the forerunners.
Also Halsey didn't seem to care much when passing legal and moral lines so I don't know how far a military eugenics program would go.
Knowing what we do about ONI, I would say they'd cross ALL of them...
@@seanmcgrath3826 What *EVER* made you think that? I mean, ONI *TOTALLY* isn't trying to experiment with Flood genetic makeup and bacterium to try and make the next breed of Spartan Super Soldier.
*TOTALLY* not at all!
@@agentmaryland1239 Thank you for correcting me. Whatever was I thinking? ONI would never do anything so awful or immoral; they only want to PROTECT humanity and its allies. Every. Single. Individual. One. Of. Them!
You can't blame Spartan-IV's, they are literally what happens when you make legends such as the Spartan II's and III's, have soldiers look up to them and this is what happens when you give them the opportunity to become a Spartan, yes it will go to their head, yes veterans do get cocky and hell, even use it to make connections. Looking at the augs for Spartan-IV's there doesn't seem to be anything going as deep as DNA, closest thing is altered nerve cells to speed up reaction so if say Spartan-IV's did have kids, they wouldn't be much different as most if not all augs are implants.
I think the IVs get telemere lengthening that will supposedly keep them combat capable for over a century and improving the effectiveness of their chondrocytes to improve cartilage I think.
@@hartianx1698 Yeah so not much on their DNA but we haven't seen long term Spartan-IV's yet, hell even II's or those from the Orian project, evidence is Johnson at near 70's when he died and he was still fighting
@@CrimsonKnyght telomeres are literally at the end of chromosomes homie, which involves altering DNA
@@panamaklz Oooohhh, now I remember, been a while since I touched on biology
Telomeres could be lengthened via means that wouldn't be heritable. Most genetically engineered cells wouldn't be passed on to offspring.
Some may say Spartan 4s are mostly semen dispensers to spread specific genetics among the populace lol
When everyone's spartan
*no one will be*
Lol
“Moneymoneymoneymoneymoney- WE CAN’T KEEP DOING THIS, CHIEF!”
- Lord Hood (Probably)
I mean, not everyone is a spartan, to even begin to enlist to become one you would need to be the best of the best
Just think they threw away ODST's for this shit
BlackStar 458 mmmmmmmm no lol. Olympia Vale was a translator who spoke sangheili. Lol most of them aren’t the best of the best. It’s all BS
Well every citizen of sparta were spartans and soldiers.
Imagine being at school and asked what you dad does for a living. "He's a spartan"
Jay B315 and then have to go on to say he’s from Greece and he is unemployed.
That's what happens when you go for quantity over quality.
More like super quality over super mega quality
But do keep in mind that the spartan IV program is overall better from a morality standpoint than any of the iterations of the prior spartan programs.
@@TheMickey0718 This is ONI we're talking about. I don't think morality enters into their calculations
@@VallornDeathblade that's where you're wrong, it was Oni's idea to make the Spartans a boost for the morale In Humanity post the Original covenant war. It's even mentioned by the director of Halo 4.
@@zalrohglekgolo6149 ONI Section 3 created them before the covenant war to take down rebel groups. During the covenant war ONI Section 2 decided to selectively 'leak' information about the Spartan 2s to improve morale (since the Covenant were otherwise steamrolling Humanity), this is where myths like Spartans only ever being listed as MIA and never KIA came from. The Spartan programs ended up coming fully into the light post war because they kind of had to, not because they wanted to.
The scene where Majestic was in that engagement with the promethans, and Hoya just steps out of cover and gets clapped was all the proof I needed the Spartan-IVs weren’t true Spartans
The Emperor of Man wouldn't stand for his legionnaires acting in such a frattish manner.
Rogal Dorn would straighten them out
Eh, the only real reason there were only a million or two Astartes from the beginning was so that they couldn’t overthrow and rule humanity as it currently was. The Imperium certainly has the resources to make more Astartes than that
Alex Frost uh...so what does that have to do with the code of conduct for astartes during the golden days of the Imperium, was sky high
Alex Frost You do realise there was nearly one million Ultramarines at one point?
Wrong, there were only 250,000 at max during the height of the Horus Heresy
Just saying, the Astartes would have faced the same problems as the one proposed in the video were it not for said code of conduct
They are a disappointing era of the Spartan Program, the High Ground Council, including Chief, was in complete agreement that they are indeed a liability
Spartan Generations have to move on at sometime right?
Madness 01 No, we all know Spartans never die. There for they cannot age because the high ground is strong within them.
@@griffin5653 lol whatever you say.
Madness 01 you don’t understand sarcasm do ya?
@@mavelll8103 evidently not, just like you dont understand facts.
Also, introducing these people into the population, "improving" the human race from within, isn't that a good thing?
supsup335 Who says those will be good guys?
The thing is they aren't inherently loyal to the UNSC and UEG there have already been Spartan 4s that have become insurrectionists.
So we have people with miltary gene enhancements running around to do what they want.
It's not really a good or a bad thing outside of small pockets of possible inequality/division.
That’s pretty much what 00’s last sentence said.
Aside from potential Insurrectionists running around with inherited SPARTAN augmentations, there may be a possibility that the kids may go their own route.
"A superior man breeds superior ambition."
That first few scenes of the Spartan 4s would make even the chief shake his head in disappointment.
I read a great fanfic set after Spartan Ops where Chief's called in to turn the Spartan IVs into Spartans. Very well written. 'Consequences of Revelation'.
That's the point, thier human first. They haven't have the same level of training like John when he was a kid. Human physiology & mental development.
@@tristanbackup2536 They are human but they are not kids. They are involved in potential galaxy wiping conflict every time.
Which is kind of sad! Chief is kind of a soldier-robot that happens to be biological! Seriously, yes he is not 100% a mindless drone, but 90%? Sure! Hell, he has no hobbies, no person life, no true personality! I pity MC, despite the fact that he's a badass in combat!
@@crimsonquill4255 Links?
I’ve personally inferred from the lore that the augmentations of Spartans are really just bringing humanity back up to the standard they were at in prehistory, and that their children disseminating the augmentations into the general population was part of the greater plan by the librarian to help humans in their reclaimation of their legacy, do you think this is something 343 intends to be the case or do you think the Spartans are always going to be something special and stand outs amongst the rest of humanity even thousands of years into the halo universe’s future?
The natural integration of the Spartan formula was part of the Plan by Halsey, Oni is aware of and they don't Necessarily disagree with.
Also the human nature of the Spartan IVs is one of the best things about them, the nature of the IIs is a byproduct of a necessity of that time, now we can create Spartans who feel like real people. Also, in the original 3 books the Spartans all had playful banter that feels like this just not about sex.
I have a generally different opinion, but I think your missing the forest for the trees here.
I suppose you could see it like our own progression of time. What was once considered necessity in say, the 1960's, has been reiterated and improved upon by now and has been readily made accessible to the masses.
In the early 2500's, the Spartans were needed to crush a rebellion that would have severely weakened Humanity's forces. The technology was strong, but weak enough that only a few could actually attain such power.
In the late 2500's anyone can be a Spartan provided they are adequately healthy enough and have the drive to be a soldier. The technology is weakened slightly, but is strong enough to almost replicate what once was.
@@agentmaryland1239 yes, it's a great and honest analogy as long as we remember that technology after the covenant war is still way better.
it's like you implied, the Spartans later are almost as good as the earlier gen, but that's because we finally had the ability to make everyone a spartan which is objectively the goal.
Because the bungees Halo games people think Spartans 2's only spew out liners when they talk.
Torino Deguzman I see both yours and installation 00s. I feel like the bar would be set very high and the IVs feel like a B team should the Augmented tech spread sure but should they be called Spartans? I’m not sure. They come off as to normal it’s just a bit to jarring at least in my opinion
@@torinodeguzman4243 The USMC is not a good model for all soldiers, everywhere. It is a deliberate part of their selection and training that they believe that a few good Marines can accomplish any mission, anywhere, any time, otherwise it might be hard to persuade them to get into nearly unarmoured landing craft and make an opposed landing against fortified positions with semi-auto rifles. The boots and short service members might talk that way, but you tend to get a different vibe from senior NCOs and ORs with some length of service, and especially some real combat experience. They've seen a lot of the motor-mouths come and go, and too often go feet first.
I happen to know a couple of UK soldiers and Royal Marines, and their experiences and opinions of the USMC (and US forces in general) are, shall we say, mixed. The more they like to talk about how badass they are, the less likely it is to be true
Dr Halsey would approve of this video.
Sidenote: I'd also be very intimidated if my wife was 6ft6, could bench warthogs and was an ex spec ops super soldier... Imagine getting into an argument! I'd be dead before I hit the ground. :(
You say intimidated, but tall chicks are my fetish. Tfw no 6’6 Spartan GF.
Indeed, power imbalances to that degree in relationships kind of suck! That's why I never understand how normal people can date any of the following: Vampire, Sorcreress/Mage, super-soldier etc. - you can't even argue with them because on slip and you are freaking paste!
Cultured individuals who appreciate amazoness muscle bound snusnu gf
Is there any lore on johnson having children between after the orion project to his death in halo 3?
Nope. No lore of Johnson having kids.
But plenty of Johnson making sweet sweet love, because he knows what the ladies like.
@@Installation00 it should be asked to 343 to think about this maybe some kind of illnes wich the kids could develop wich is the reason the unsc does not allow this to keep spartans more focussed on mission or mission's so they might not fail...
That Spartan 1 Pull out game though
@@Installation00..harvest, with an ONI spook...he knows what the ladies like : ]
he could've had kids but the dog beat him over the fence.
Imagine this 6'10 female veteran comes to you planet and starts dating you.
Major Payne
"I thought, if the marine corps wanted me to have a wife, they would have issued me one."
Romeo would definitely be a case of this.
nah, many will say Romeo deserves to be an Spartan... but just for nostalgia
Romeo despite his flaws, is actually a very good spartan. Read bad blood.
@@hummerskickass good point, he's better than Mickey.
@@hummerskickass Romeo is claimed by many to be almost as good a sniper as Linda now that he's a spartan.
I mean, this is what Halsey meant when she said that the Spartans were the "next step" for human evolution, no? Unless she expected her great Spartan evolution to stop with the Spartan III program? Humanity won't evolve unless the Spartan genes are released into the general population.
More nerd rant:
I also think that this is what happened to the Forerunners (if one sticks to the original Bungie story of Forerunners being ancient humans); genetic manipulation is what allowed the Forerunners to conquer the galaxy (one of the leading factors, anyway). Why else, out of all the ancient races, were the Forerunners the ones to preserve the genetic material of the other races?
I agree, but the Forerunners weren't suppose to be the ones to preserve the other races. They stole that honor from Ancient Humanity by hunting down the Primordials and Knee capping Humanity while they fought the Flood.
People shit on Spartan IVs all the time but damn i think they're cool
i think this was an expected outcome by the UNSC as with every generation there would be a likely need to increase the recruitment pole for Spartan units later on. in fact other than the fact most spartan 4 augmentations only give humans the strength of a small brownbear( 300 pounds as the smallest). its not like the Spartan 2 and 3 variations which are much stronger and more likely to have children with abnormalities due to the augmentations. it would also make sense as ONI elements might make use of procreation to make cheaper augments that allows the spartan 3 or 2 style enhancements more viable for special ops. just looking at it if planned right ONI could be using the urges of Spartan 4( why would they have the urge when the augmentations should allow either sterilization or limited sex drives). thats my thoughts as the spreading of the Gen 4 augmentations are rather milder than the previous.
Spartan IV augmentations are arguably better than the Spartan III augmentations. Coupled with Mjolnir, they are much stronger than a brown bear, lol. That makes zero sense.
@@zenoohshit5498 well the augmentations in S4 are less drastic than S2 or S3 units so having S4.1 children can allow for S3 upgrades but more cost effectiveness.
Barry Bend S3 Augmentations weren’t even that drastic. It was a dramatic improvement from the SII augmentations. They are quid essentially the same as the SIV augmentations. Though I’m going to argue that the SIV augments are fat superior, just because they whole purpose of the SIII class was to create expendable super soldiers; excluding Gamma Company.
@@zenoohshit5498 well I was just pointing out S3 and 2 augments are on a level higher than the S4. For a comparison I compare the S4 to the astartes while S3 are Custodies( they even share the same expendability) and the S2 to Thunderwarriors from 40K. While all are possible the S4 are much easier to produce. Though unlike 40K you can pass along the genes of spartans to new generations.
Gen2 mjonir armor (the armor given directly to spartan 4s) increases their levels to near if not at spartan 2 and 3 levels. But the full training is lacking as both the spartan 2 and 3s had efficient training.
when I listen to the last clip I think Halsey saw this coming. I also agree the 4s are a liability. the spartan program should have followed the 2s model with some of the 3 program thrown in. But there is potential up side to having the 4s get busy with the rest of humanity. How strong and fast would the children or grandchildren of the 4s be if they were given spartan augmentation.
Draco2525 4.1s would definitely be a good reservoir of recruits. Imagine 4.1s with the training of 3s and the tech of 4s.
if they followed the same formula as the spartan 2 program then they would be hypocrites.
As long as they don't into insurrectionists first...
So you want them to kidnap children and turn them into slave soldiers? Where are you from the Congo?
I think the issue is 'lazy writing' by the writers for Spartan IV's.
Except the first batch of Spartan 4's seen in Halo 4 were gung ho because they had joined the ranks of the famous spartans and thought themselves invincible.
The events of Halo 4 put a hole in that.
Which is why in the lore, between Halo 4 and Halo 5, Chief Mendez and his team of specialist trainers as well as a team of surviving Spartan III's were ordered to train and drill the Spartan IV's.
In the lore, by the time of Halo 5, the IV's had been fully disciplined and had good practice ingrained in them. According to the lore, what times they arent deployed they spend training (marksmanship, hand to hand/martial arts, etc). And from what we see of the Spartan IV's in Halo 5, they are far more disciplined than the gung ho ones we see in Halo 4.
As I always say, “It’s not the suit that makes the man, it’s the man that makes the suit,”
Something that would be interesting is if some parts of Ancient Humanity had survived the Forerunner-Flood war and left the galaxy and became a nomadic civilization that appears to be similar to the Triglavians in Eve Online and they return to the galaxy to retake it and they would see the Forerunner made humans as inferior and a threat to their traditions and culture so they try to purge them. That would be a interesting future story of past civilizations returning to the galaxy as different factions with their own cultures and traditions could have endless possibilities of lore. Turning Halo into something similar to Homeworld in storytelling.
Sounds just like the Human/Covenant War all over again.
@@griffin5653
But in a different way.
Sounds like a fanfiction I read a long time ago. I didn't agree with a number of things that the author did; mostly in regards to the Master Chief, the insinuations made about the main protagonist (No, John-117 isn't *the* main protagonist, though he does still have a prevalent role to play), and how the general tone and path of the story seemed to have shifted.
The biggest issue I had with this story was that the author seemed to have abandoned this work. So, you can still read this story if you want.
m.fanfiction.net/s/9148451/1/The-return-of-the-forgotten-empire
Sounds like something out of Battlestar Galactica or Stargate. I really like the idea of another human faction that is culturally distinct from the UNSC
This idea would greatly conflict with the expanded lore. Both humanity and the the forerunners were cousin species created by the precursors and technological equals before the ancient flood intervention. The novels do however hint to ancient humanity’s “survival” in some form or another.
You go hard with lore, I love it
Halsey called it...again
Now I'm wondering if these naturally augmented humans can be further artificially augmented to the point of being "better" than any previous Spartan.
That sounds like the start of the spartan Vs, children of the IVs with augmentations
It’s how the Spartan II’s were made. Augmenting Children of the Ones. Mostly.
Halsey said that the Spartans are the future
These Spartan 1.1 would make for interesting stories. What would happen if they decide to join the UNSC and have Spartan 4 augs done? Possibilities are there.
I love how in these videos you bring actual science to explain lore. Like this brings me back to some of my anatomy, biology classes while incorporating my next favorite topic, Halo. It’s just so well done, awesome video man.
So essentially they would bred a warrior caste like knights or equites?
I think Spartans having children and creating a 'better' humanity is part of Hallsey's plan considering she called them "Humanity's Next step, our destination as a species."
“... they are our next step. Our destiny as a species...” I think Halsey knew the UNSC would make something like the S4’s and let it happen.
(Edit: I was writing this just before he said it)
You may have have forgotten that Randall 037 had a child, Natalie and was born in 2545 a year before Randall's augmentations was reduced by ONI. I don't think it was ever confirmed Maria had a kid.
We can still destroy the enemy's core
Honestly Spartan IV's would seem like children to Spartan II's and Spartan III's - they are what Humanity would call 'Spartans'
Disciplined. I believe Chief and Noble Six would be there respective example of a perfected Spartan II and Spartan III. Hyper Lethal and as Six's previous CO's stated prior to Noble Squad, he was their literal, personal grim reaper.
It's why when I see Locke and his squad taking on Chief and blue team, I can't help but giggle, Spartan IV's v Spartan 2's would be akin to tossing a child against a Lion.
This thumbnail/title made me giggle. It’s so true.
I believe the fact that the Spartan IVs debated as easily killable soldiers when Master Chief first encountered them really showed how inferior they were to the other Spartans from any other games. I doubt the vast majority of IVs will ever achieve some the feats we’ve witnessed in the games, comics, novels, and other media.
They will inadvertently create the "Chad overman"
What makes me upset is that these guys are supposed to be the most elite of normal human soldiers, and we get guys like fireteam majestic.
Woah...I never thought about this before. Personally, if this does happen...then Halsey's prediction of her Spartans being the Next Step, and the advancement in Human Evolution as seen by the Librarian, would be proven right...we are in interesting times.
I despise the fact that these unprofessional, undisciplined prior military hotheads were allowed to become Spartans. The UNSC should’ve moved all enhancements over to the ODST branch. Spartans should’ve remained elite in every way.
"They are the next step for Humanity" - Halsey
I think...
Well propaganda wise it would make it look like the Spartans were now everywhere and that the military was recovering and massing strength post-war after it's near extinction. Most likely also new Spartans would return to the shadows as originally intended to keep the most effective units secret. Think of it as we see Marine Recon and Rangers deployed, but Delta Force remains hidden
i feel like op has never met anyone in the army. hed be very disapointed
I see this as oni’s recompense for the spartan II child test subjects who died on the operating table and those who survived having their humanity forcibly stripped away in the name of progress
Are any of the spartan 2 candidates spartan 1 offspring by any chance I mean it would make sense as to why they were the highest genetics wise if they were already enhanced a generation before.
So the UNSC could try recruiting the (adult) children of Spartans.
If some augmentations can be passed on, then it would likely be easier and safer to bring them up to spartan level, or even beyond Spartan IV level strength.
That video was incredibly mind numbing with all the genetic speak...at least for me.
That being said...I don't think introducing potential evolutionary enhancements that would help the race as a whole to survive would be a bad thing.
I think the Spartan IV program is the best program, but it produces the least effective soldiers who can wear Mjolnir armor.
My reasoning is that even though the IIs are the best, the fact that it was the smallest program with incredibly high costs makes it not as successful as it could’ve been.
Plus there are the extremely unethical parts to consider.
The IIIs are not as good as the IIs, but they had more units and were cheaper.
However, their use as disposable supersoldiers was a bad idea. However, there were not as many washouts, if any.
The IVs don’t have an ethically challenged program, they are given better equipment than the IIIs, the IVs only suffer from not being as great as their predecessors. They are still good, and come from military veterans.
They should have never branded it 'Spartan 4s'. I think they'd have more luck refitting ODSTs with mjoilner, after all they are special forces, highly trained, disciplined, *professional* Both in the way they perform in combat and how they conduct themselves outside of it too, and don't crack under pressure. Not to mention the fact they're deserving of the title, they jump from orbit with the possibility of death in every jump.
I'd imagine the chance of them having rebel sympathy would be less likely because only the best of the best make it through ODST training.
Uh Mickey? Odst
@@Oddball-_- While there were ODSTs in the S4 branch it was predominately Marines and others, What I was suggesting was *All ODSTs*
I thought most of the Spartan 4 candidates were current of former ODSTs though...
@@Povsa_ I meant he was a rebel
@@Oddball-_- Oh, yes. That's why I said reduce the chance not completely mitigate.
Given what Halsey said about Spartan 2's being humanity's destiny as a species, and what the Librarian said about the Spartans being planned via genetic planning by the Forerunners, and given that ancient humans were supposedly closer to Spartans than ordinary people, could this be intentional?
Could Spartan genetic augmentations spreading throughout humanity have been intentionally planned by the Librarian, to restore humanity to its pre-deevolution state?
Fireteam Majestic does learn and many if them later earn the Title of Spartan. Personal growth via trial by fire. Also Majestic DEMONSTRATED that anyone can become a Spartan but not everyone is born one.
Fireteam Crimson was designed to showcase a team of "born Spartans" and why they always beat the "made Sapratns" of Majestic and why Osiris, a Fireteam made of the absolute BEST operators outside of Blue was leagues above even Crimson.
And Buck has been wanting children with Dare. Spartan 4.1s are pretty inevtiable.
I wouldn't view Osiris team as being better then Crimson team.
DeMarco sacrifices himself in a mission (taken place after Spartan Ops) to ensure the survival of his fireteam.
If there's one theme I see consistent with Spartans, it is sacrifice. I find it quite shallow to judge Spartan IVs based on their fireteam banter.
Halsey herself said at the beginning of Halo 4... "(my Spartans are) the next step in humanity's evolution"
I think the IVs having kids is... well... just part of the wider and upcoming lore for Halo. After all, Chief and Blue Team are nearly in their fifties, and most of the IIIs got wiped out. We, realistically, only have a few more in-game decades with Chief before the inevitable comes.
People need to accept the IVs for what they are- to quote Halsey once again... the next step.
Demarco: * Served for years as an ODST, gaining a fair amount of tactical skill and experience. Augmentations made him nearly on par in size with Spartan-II’s in armor. He also possesed a knack for leadership that led him to be assigned to command not just one but two separate Spartan fireteams during his career. Is sometimes brash and cocky (ya know, like a human and especially any soldier would be) but is ultimately a great soldier and even sacrifices himself for the greater good *
Halo fans who don’t like sprint: “JuSt AnOtHeR fAkE sPaRtAn!!”
When a Halo lore channel teaches you more about Genetics than your Biology class.
I'd be interested in following the life of John 117's son or daughter, I don't care if it's a clone, donation, or naturally.
I do know one thing. The one person that doesn’t care whether a spartan is a one, two, three, or four is John 117. John is a team player. In his mind they’re ALL his brothers and he wants them to survive. When he sees any spartan die it breaks his heart. Just look at his reaction to the dead Spartans in halo infinite. They were 4s and He was heartbroken about their deaths. It was like looking at a father losing a son or a man losing his brother. I personally think that some fans out there are too hard on the Spartan 4s. I’m not gonna judge the entire group based on a few that we’ve seen in some Cut scenes in spartan ops. The ones that we meet in halo infinite were pretty cool and they fought well. Also I’m glad they stopped kidnapping kids. I mean I’m glad we have the master chief but still what Halsey did was messed up.
Quantity over quality. Honestly to call this new generation of Spartan 4 Spartans is a disservice to genuine Spartans there more like just augmented ODSTs or marines. To quote dr Halsey “first we taught them to be silent then we taught them to be Spartans. Though they are a good representation of how too big (for its own good) and too arrogant the UNSC had become post halo 3.
3:27 you forgot about the Spartan 2 from Halo nightfall who had a daughter.
Games are the main canon. Everything else is a side story except I think it was Halo legends? And like 2 books.
@@stevenjones7823 I thought that was the Bungie approach to canon whereas 343 tried to tie it all together as much as possible.
you know someone's a true nerd when the man starts rapping the information at Ludicrous speeds
Any ideas what happened to the spartan 1.1? Or how strong their children would be?
@@henrykimberley5922 I meant after the war and how strong the 1.1's children would be.
I understand that humanity is on its last legs after the in covenant war, but are none of the Spartan IV's supplied with helmets?
Just having the augmentations won't make spartan 4.1s that much of a threat. You don't understand how important training is.
And if those future kids join the Marines or the Army?
@@ragemonkey117 how often do you see veterans become terrorists in real life? They still wouldn't have spartan training unless they got selected for the spartan program. In that case there is no difference between them and any other spartan going rogue
@@Starlesslemon that's not what I meant.
Exactly! A trained 60 year old soldier will probably win against almost all "civilians" (except those who practice martial arts competitively) half his age, despite the fact that he has a slower reaction time and is physically weaker!
Installation 00: *talks about sperm cells and scientific stuff about them
Kazuma Jinnouchi's soundtrack: 🔥🔥🔥
As Halsey Said First we taught them how to be silent Then we taught them how to be Spartans.
I think this plays into the new narrative direction of spartan projects being "superior humans" rather than "super soldiers".
In a way this makes sense considering the project was guided by the Librarian's geas, leading which mimics Foreruuner's use of genetic technology of creating individuals to suit their purpose, of artificially creating a biological caste system, rather than current Humanity's organizational occupations.
It also presents how the UNSC doesn't care or think about the bigger picture, they needed soldiers for wars, charges head-strong into morally and philosophically distributing areas just for the purpose of keeping their empire running.
Either way, I'm not looking forward to neither possibilities of such storytelling, the current lore is implementing weird storytelling concept that'll, in my opinion, leave many confused or outright disagreeing.
What if the covenant starts there own program. Super Elites
I think a good portion of S-IV were ODST and other SpecOps soldiers. SpecOps operators tend to be more cocky because they are pretty much the best of the best. You see that a lot in our current militaries. This kind of thing happens in today's world. I guess in 500 years it still exists.
"Cannot get intoxicated by alcohol"
Sounds like a disadvantage to me...
AutumnOnFire not if you participate in drinking contests for money.
Randall-037. This Spartan II is CONFIRMED to have had a child. See Halo: Nightfall.
The video stops or keeps buffering at 21 seconds.
That might be your internet friend, because it didn't do that to me.
It happens occasionally when you try to watch a video within an hour or two of being uploaded
The problem with Spartan IV's is the fact that you can't give someone so much power and then allow them to just roam free. It's incredible unsafe for everyone involved.
The 4's should never have been called Spartans. Centurions or something, but not Spartans. They should remain special, since they had everything taken from them to make them what they are. The 4's come off as an insult to that because they never had to sacrifice anything to become 4's.
tl;dr: I don't lament the 4s' existence, but they shouldn't have been called Spartans
4s should be spartans because its great for their morale and the morale of the regular marines
Minotaur1501 ! 4s sacrificed nothing. They are not worthy of the name Spartan. It is an insult to those who sacrificed so much to call them such.
@@burnttoast26 that's a bit gatekeepy
Minotaur1501 ! So sacrifice means nothing to you?
I think all Spartan IVs should be chemical sterilize because : 1) to prevent them to have children and all the problems that came with that 2) to make them true Spartans who only live for battle without the possibility of a normal life, basically one less distraction.
Maybe it's want ONI wanted, what better way to fast forward evolution *(cough* FEV *cough*); then with real *super heros*.
Spartans IV's are just Marines with shields that means dubbo could be a spartan
Dear god. What if Spartan spermatozoa are “naturally” more likely of penetrating and binding with ovum?
Just augment everyone who’s not naturally enhanced in a few generations. “Because when everyone’s super, no one will be”
Lol only Spartan IV I have respect for is Palmer and Buck 😂
Only ones I even like are augmented Alpha Nine (Buck and his old ODST team), and Olympia Vale, Sangheili linguist. Even then, out of all the named S-IV’s, Buck is the ONLY one worthy of being called a Spartan. The rest, ESPECIALLY Palmer are nothing but ODST’s on Rumble Drugs.
I gotta give Palmer one thing, she is Spartan through and through, she won't pull stupid shit like the other 4s that are like majestic, she knows what her being one means, she is more off Will from the book fall of reach, one of the few Spartan-IIs that kept a sense of humor and would make jokes, buck and Palmer will be the only two ever considered a Spartan, because she don't like Halsey but she does hold respect for the Legacy she created, she respects all S-IIs she comes into contact with, one of the reasons she has that standing in my eyes, she respects the true Spartans and has also been called by some one of the few Spartan IV who wear the name properly
@@ralphforbes5807 the only reason "fans" hate her is because she talked smack to Master chief even tho it was literally confirmed in a novel that she did that to look "tough" in the presence of a living legend one she grew up on and someone who she sees as a literal hero of Olympus it's stated in the books that she was fangirling like crazy at the sight of him. but like chief she's military disciplined.
I wonder to what degree the native augmentations would affect the development of the children. Being born with and naturally adjusting to the capabilities of an enhanced body as opposed to medically administered augmentations at a later stage of life where there is a possibility of rejection and a considerable adjustment period... could these native abilities then be further advanced upon with additional augmentations? Would these individuals perhaps be more capable than a medically (post conception) augmented human? Is there a benchmark to compare against in lore?