Why I won't use Victron Multiplus in my personal van

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  • Опубліковано 17 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 59

  • @TheGalifrey
    @TheGalifrey 11 місяців тому +7

    Pretty sure you can change the software settings from charger priority to load priority which would fix your second problem. If not you can limit the charge amps when you're in that situation.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      Yes, but I don't want to have to change software settings every time. I don't know why they wouldn't put a switch to turn on or off the charger on the unit or functionality in the Cerbo GX.

    • @AndrewMetcalfe
      @AndrewMetcalfe 11 місяців тому +1

      @@TheNaker So instead of changing a software setting you're changing hardware? That's not the way most people go with that choice.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      @AndrewMetcalfe Not at all. You didn't listen because what I said was that in my NEXT build I won't be using a multiplus. Not a helpful comment anyway.

    • @AndrewMetcalfe
      @AndrewMetcalfe 10 місяців тому +2

      @@TheNaker OK. I agree with the other posters that you don't seem to understand the MP very well.

  • @STRUTZKOFF
    @STRUTZKOFF 11 місяців тому +4

    the mp1 needs a mains detector to turn back on but this is fixed on multp plus 2 , you can disable battery charging for charging , set shore power limit . or use charger only and set to current 0 . , you can also disable charging in dvcc menu.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      I'll have to look at the multiplus 2...

  • @DaddyEric222
    @DaddyEric222 10 місяців тому +2

    I run this in my van with a 15kwh battery. Plus an extra inverter on a separate circuit. I always had a victron 30 amp charger which worked out well if the battery died all the way and nothing else would charge it (happened like once I a year of full time living) I later switched that out to a 100amp charger as a backup/fast charger to combine with the multiplus.
    Problem 2 seem like you need to dive into the settings more. Mine would pull from grid/generator up to about 1300 watts which would be sent straight to the appliance. Once the appliance turned off the charger would pick back up the 15 amps (1600 watts ish). It worked perfectly for that actually, which is why yours should too.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  10 місяців тому

      Thanks. I get the idea of a separate charger.

  • @jonathanwiggins7017
    @jonathanwiggins7017 9 місяців тому +1

    You could always just buy a ac bypass switch in the event of a failure which would cover your inverter failing or your batteries. Which is recommended by Victron to do anyway if you read the manual. Just a thought.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  9 місяців тому

      Yes, I will end up doing this. Don't recall seeing this recommended in Victron schematics though...

    • @jonathanwiggins7017
      @jonathanwiggins7017 9 місяців тому

      @@TheNaker It is recommended in both the wiring unlimited document. I am an EE and I work with this stuff everyday so I’ve seen lots of similar situations to yours before.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  9 місяців тому

      ​@jonathanwiggins7017 OK. Thanks. What are your thoughts on keeping the components separate vs an all-in-one solution like the Multiplus? I'm considering separate tranafer switch, charger and inverter on my next build.

    • @jonathanwiggins7017
      @jonathanwiggins7017 9 місяців тому

      @@TheNaker This really just depends on application. Most that I have seen have chosen to use an external transfer switch however keep the all in one functionality of a Multiplus as it offers a lot more than being able to pass through ac in 2 when applicable. The Multiplus units only have one ac input, so I’m assuming you are using the term transfer switch loosely as it cannot switch between separate ac inputs without help from an external device. Truthfully, I would only use a Victron unit as a transfer switch if it were a larger unit such as a Quattro with 2 separate ac inputs to function as a true transfer switch i.e gen to ac in one and shore to ac in 2.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  9 місяців тому

      ​@@jonathanwiggins7017 By transfer switch I meant switching AC loads from shore power to inverter or vice versa automatically.

  • @tonybaudier6398
    @tonybaudier6398 9 місяців тому +1

    hey Sean ,, I have experienced these same problems , also one other , I have an on board Generator , If you have the inverter controlled by Cerbo and you turn inverter off. and you run the generator to power you van direst or Shore power , the power will not pass through the Multiplus unless it is in On position .. real pain

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  9 місяців тому

      I hear you. Seems like best option is a manual transfer switch before the Multiplus. It is annoying...

  • @junkerzn7312
    @junkerzn7312 11 місяців тому +2

    I prefer discrete systems over all-in-one's for small systems myself. Once a system grows large enough to require redundancy, paralleling two or three all-in-one's becomes the go-to choice. But for small systems having discrete components greatly improves flexibility and reduces the cost of maintenance.
    But before you start spending more money you should really consider moving to at least a 24V system instead of 12V. Even 48V, but the charger controllers you already have can support 24V and you already have 2 x 12V batteries, so maybe stick with 24V. There is a lot of unneeded bulk and heat in 12V systems and it is totally unnecessary to saddle yourself with that.
    For discrete components, my preference is to use a generator only for battery charging and have enough capability in the DC system to run all loads from the inverter. Taking the generator, for example, the most efficient use of fuel is to run it at 50% load. So if you get a battery charger to match that, you only need to run the generator for however long it takes to top-off the batteries and can then turn it off to return the peace and quiet.
    Silence is golden.
    Generator -> high-power-battery-charger (sized to 50% of the gen load) -> batteries (25.6V)
    Shorepower -> load-support battery charger -> batteries (25.6V)
    Shorepower -> (same high-power-battery-charger as used with generator) -> batteries (25.6V) (if needed)
    solar -> charge controllers -> batteries (25.6V)
    batteries (25.6V) -> inverter(s) (these would have to be 24V inverters of course)
    batteries (25.6V) -> DC-to-DC converter(s) for legacy 12V gear.
    --
    Batteries: 24V (8s, 25.6V nominal). The best configuration is to have two or more in parallel, such as 2 x 24V batteries in parallel. But if you already have 2 x 12V batteries you are limited to have 2 in series with no paralleled redundancy unless you intend to add more batteries to your system. Or unless you want to buy new batteries (I assume the answer to that is "no").
    load-support battery charger: Something like a Victron Blue Smart 24-volt 12A battery charger for example (if you had a 24V battery system). Bluetooth accessible, fanless, and can be put into power-supply mode to provide load support instead of fully charging the battery if desired. But limited to 25.6V x 12 = roughly 300W. You can have more than one though.
    Charge controllers: Same ones as you have now, no need to buy new ones since those will support 24V batteries (and output far fewer amps in the process, so they won't even get warm).
    Inverter(s): You would have to buy 24V inverters to match the ~24V system voltage.
    That would be my recommendation. Get away from 12V... the sooner the better.
    -Matt

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      Thanks Matt. I appreciate your thinking. This system is done but I'm planning for a new build and will look into 48v. What to you use to get back to 12v for lights and appliances?

    • @junkerzn7312
      @junkerzn7312 11 місяців тому +2

      @@TheNaker For low-power things like LED lights, just a few of those cheap fully potted DC-to-DC converter works quite well. I trust them up to around 3-5A on the output. But don't trust them too much... always have an inline fuse on the input power wire.
      For medium-power appliances, a commercial DC-to-DC converter such as the "Orion" products that Victron sells works quite well.
      For high-power DC appliances... that's where you really want an appliance that directly matches your system voltage because high-power DC-to-DC converters get expensive.
      A couple of notes about 48V.
      * When looking into 48V, only consider 16s (51.2V nominal LiFePO4) battery configurations. "48V" batteries are sold in both 15s and 16s configurations (24V is always 8s and 12V is always 4s). For 48V you want the 16s configuration.
      * Fusing. 12V and 24V systems can use auto-fuses and ANL fuses. But these fuses are typically only rated for up to 32V. For 48V systems you want to look into glass auto fuses, ANN/CNN fuses (same form factor as ANL), and so-called monster and mega-fuses.
      * Manual disconnect switches are only good to 32V in general and are usually a bad fit for solar battery systems anyway because they can't safely be switched under load. Also look into getting proper DC breakers if you haven't already. DIN rail mounted Mini-DC breakers are a good choice and putting all the components on breakers makes working on a live system really easy.
      And, in general, at any voltage, all wiring should be protected by appropriate fuses or breakers or both. This is doubly true for 24V and 48V systems where higher-gauge (thinner) wiring can be used all over the place.
      For example, on my 48V system since I never actually use more than 60A (3kW) under any circumstances, I use 2 AWG battery cables good to 115A, 100A fusing, and an 80A breaker.
      -Matt

  • @Downgrader
    @Downgrader 11 місяців тому +3

    Are you sure about your first point re: absence of DC power? I’ve had the 12/24v side disconnected and also dead while still getting shore power A/C passthru to work. The first instance I engaged the 12/24v disconnect switch while everything was previously on and didn’t lose any power to my 120v circuit (interestingly I discovered that because I have a 24/12v dcdc converter I was also able to keep my DC circuits powered from the A/C line). The second instance accidentally drained my LiFoPos completely (shore power was out overnight) and when shore power came back I was able to get power to the Multiplus to charge the batt bank. I’ll concede that I’m not exactly sure how this is working; i was under the impression the Multiplus wouldn’t do anything without DC power. I wonder if the 24/12v converter can charge using the inverter during passthru. Either way, I would like to understand this better and see better documentation from Victron.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому +1

      If you disconnect the 12v power while connected to AC then the relays are already engaged and you will have shore power passthrough. But if your 12v power dies and then you connect to AC, the relays won't allow passthrough (Id be happy to be proven wrong on this but it happened twice and I couldn't resolve.). The obvious issue here is that if you drain your batteries too low and then connect to shore power you can't charge them because the relays don't allow the AC to connect to the charger. In your case, the converter is saving you because it provided the Victron with 12v power for the relays.

    • @Downgrader
      @Downgrader 11 місяців тому

      @@TheNakerahh…makes sense. So maybe the easiest solution is to just add a 24/12 (in my case) or 12/12 converter (non isolated?)to the busbar. They’re fairly inexpensive.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      @@Downgrader Yes, thats solves one issue. Still have the other. You start to get to the point where a separate charger/converter, inverter and transfer switch may be a better solution...

    • @kimsandb
      @kimsandb 11 місяців тому

      @@TheNaker Maybe you could use Charge Current Control assistant. That should allow you to control charge current from Aux input.

  • @jamesmason7124
    @jamesmason7124 4 місяці тому +1

    The Victron Multiplus 2 addresses most of these problems, my only problem with it is being able to afford it as i am disabled and unable to work anymore and live on a very fixed income

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  17 днів тому

      I'm going to try the Multiplus II in the build I'm starting now. Will post updates.

  • @pifle9471
    @pifle9471 10 місяців тому +1

    I wonder if Victron could add an "ignore battery" function that would solve both problems ? Either through software or a tiny hardware box to attach?

  • @summerWTFE
    @summerWTFE 11 місяців тому +1

    You did a pretty good job at making a compact setup there! I’d be interested in seeing what you come up with because I also don’t like the idea of these all-in-one monsters where magic just happens. I’d rather have a more complex setup with individual parts that don’t necessarily come from the same brand.

  • @ShaneFromSA
    @ShaneFromSA 10 місяців тому

    Problem 1: Just flip the switch to charger only mode. It will output 12V on the battery terminals, as you don't have a battery attached you can't put on large loads as there is no buffer.
    Problem 2: on the GX, set the input current limit to match your generator size. Inverter will only pull that from the generator and it automatically slow down/turn off charging if the AC loads exceed the current limit.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  10 місяців тому

      On problem 2, I've done that and I can assure you it still directs current through charger. I think the only way to stop it is to program the charge current to zero but then I have to put it back afterwards which is not convenient.

    • @ShaneFromSA
      @ShaneFromSA 10 місяців тому

      @@TheNaker yes, it will still direct current to the charger but only what is left over.
      Example, if you set to to 10A and your AC is using 8A, it will charge with 2A. It won't overload your generator. You just need to make sure to set it to the correct limit for the source whether that be generator or shore power.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  10 місяців тому +1

      Thank you for your answer to problem 1. I don't know why I never tried that combination but I just went out and tried it and it worked! It outputted enough 12v to get the AC connected.

  • @xrmad
    @xrmad 11 місяців тому +2

    you havent configured it properly by the sounds of it. the multiplus can be configured for load priority so it wont charge the batteries when the AC power is needed elsewhere

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      But like I said in the video, I don't want to have to change the software every time I don't want the charger active. For most clients, this isn't realistic.

    • @xrmad
      @xrmad 11 місяців тому +1

      @TheNaker set it to load priority mode and let it do its thing. It will stop charging the batteries when required and then resume charging when the large current draw has finished

  • @MichaelSchmitz-mk8ll
    @MichaelSchmitz-mk8ll 11 місяців тому

    Hmmm my Victron Energy 150/70 MPPT controller app (battery) has a enable battery / disable battery .. Real easy an works every time, sucks that your having issues.

  • @adamsherman
    @adamsherman 11 місяців тому

    I do not experience the First problem you describe at all. The second one can be solved with the “prioritize wind and solar” feature.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      Disconnect your battery and turn off the multiplus. Then turn the multiplus back on without battery and try to get AC power. You won't.

    • @adamsherman
      @adamsherman 11 місяців тому

      @@TheNaker Correct, it is not rated as a power supply. But it will sustain the DC side temporarily while you figure out what killed your battery. (In a modern system, a battery disconnect should only occur in a catastrophic failure scenario.)

  • @awesomusmaximus3766
    @awesomusmaximus3766 11 місяців тому +1

    I have the quattro I can turn the charger off

  • @TW0T0M
    @TW0T0M 11 місяців тому

    A bypass is pretty simple to wire up, like this: watch?v=qbZ6NmXhV10 Though if/when my multiplus dies i'll probably go separates for more resiliency.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      Yes, I could wire a bypass but shouldn't have to. I agree with your point about more resiliency!

  • @jeffreyumeh8580
    @jeffreyumeh8580 11 місяців тому

    Like if you wanted a bunch of high power stuff... dude you should have went 24 or 48V with a bigger inverter, personally I would suggest 5kVA, to be fair if your going for 51.2V that does require you to go with 200Ah which is the equivlent of 800Ah of 12.8V (aka 10.24kWh), but really if your going to have an air conditioner etc honestly I think thats about how much you should be aiming for anyway with at least 1000W of solar. If you go with a Sprinter LWB you can fit 3x 425W pannels (1275W total) with space for a roof fan / skylight, semi directional 5G antena and omni directioal 5G antena.

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      Ive got a mini split Air conditioner that is super efficient. Plus 900W solar and 412AH of lithium (ability to add more). But I hear you. I may look at 48V on a future build! 3x425W panels would be awesome! What brand panels are these? Ive always used renogy so far.

  • @DuTangTheCryptoSurfr
    @DuTangTheCryptoSurfr 10 місяців тому +1

    ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

  • @schwarz1933
    @schwarz1933 11 місяців тому +2

    Sorry pal ... seems to me not having a Victron problem ... more an "understanding the system" problem ....

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому +1

      Really??? What's your brilliant solution to my first issue?

    • @schwarz1933
      @schwarz1933 11 місяців тому

      @@TheNaker What I understand .... when the battery is drowned to zero (btw .... I never would let that happen) then charge it to at least 10% .... if the battery failed completely then change it .... but it seems your most concern is missing the AC. In this system the Victron Multiplus is the heart of an off grid emergency power system with the battery as main source ... meaning ... if any AC power input fails, the battery takes over. How would you expect ... this system would work without a functional battery? Your second issue could be a faulty dip switch configuration. ..... let the battery charge first for a short time and switch then the AC on (low power) .... the batt charger current reduces automaticly when the generator struggles ....

    • @MrNonDescript01
      @MrNonDescript01 11 місяців тому

      Maybe I'm missing something or it's too simplistic of a suggestion but: how about a battery disconnect when you don't want to charge the batteries when using the generator?

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      ​@MrNonDescript01 thanks for an obvious possible solution I haven't tried. Will see if this works. Crazy obvious!

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      @@schwarz1933 If the Multiplus is designed for an off grid home with huge battery bank then your logic makes total sense. I, maybe mistakenly, thought it was designed for mobile use (they show ambulances and RVs in marketing material but maybe not for the Multiplus). They could have added a converter to provide 12v in case batteries disconnected so that it can operate easily off of just AC.

  • @shanonqual759
    @shanonqual759 11 місяців тому +3

    sounds more like you dont know how to use the victron software

    • @TheNaker
      @TheNaker  11 місяців тому

      I understand it can be programmed but my point was that its not user friendly or practical to have to change software settings every time I don't want the charger active.

    • @simon359
      @simon359 10 місяців тому

      @@TheNaker
      For me, just use the software (VictronConnect app) to turn off the charger? But again I have never plugged the generator in and used it directly to charge just the loads.