Starship Lore: Ares Class - Pushing Pink Skins to the thin Ice
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- Опубліковано 1 січ 2019
- What's up Lore Masters,
This is the second part of Axanar Series.. A starship Lore. What do you think about Axanar and the Ares Class? Let Me know..
Information gathered from statements made by Alec Peters and interviews such as Trekyards: • Trekyards E17 - Ares C...
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When a fan project is a million times better than a high budget studio production.
It's down to the passion for Trek and the good writing ideas. Discovery had/has neither.
I always loved Soval's line about humans.
"An Andorian acquaintance once said, 'Don't push the pink skins to the thin ice.' Not very eloquent but for the Klingons it would prove prophetic."
"But the Andorians. They were happy to supply us the phasers."
Have to admit that I was always kind of "Meh" about Andorians before Enterprise. Commander Shran was an awesome character.
Enterprise made me love Andorians. They went from just kinda being there to being one of my favorite alien species.
Shran WAS awesome. My favorite character in ENTERPRISE, with definite nods to Soval and T'Pol, particularly in their interactions with Shran.
It actually annoys me they aren't used more often. The other founding races are ok to be off doing thier own things due to pacifict or mercantile ideology, but the Andorians and the Humans should be the bulk of the Starfleet. Grumble.
@@omni42 Agreed. I think one of the reasons Shran and Archer became friends is because the Andorians seem to be a lot like humans. A little headstrong, not afraid to shoot first, yet their own code of respect and honor along with willingness to work with others (mostly of it helps them out)
Shran was awesome. He is one of my favorite Star Trek characters
"For my self, I have but one fear : Destroying the dream of the Federation.
Compared to such a loss. I DO NOT FEAR the Klingon empire"
It's a good speech. Wish we could've gotten more of him. More of Axanar in general, really.
Axanar was the series we needed.
It's still there. They are starting production again.
Sadly we only get two 15 minute episodes. That was in the agreement with CBS and the Axanar people. After the Prelude of Axanar and CBS suing and claiming that they were making money on their copyright. Which I don't know how much fact that was in. Yet the judge at the trail fucked up and ruled under law that Axanar had no legal case for Fair Use. Which Axanar appealed right off. As Fair Use was not a matter of law but of fact. And well being at the time CBS was getting close to celebrating Star Trek's 50th anniversary. They really did not need this lawsuit. So they went out of the courtroom and struck a deal. It was not the 2 hours the Axanar people wanted but 30 minutes is better than nothing and they told a damn good story in 20 minutes compared to a whole season of STD.
@@lucofparis4819 except the fact because of CBS only get 2 15 minute episodes rather than entire seasons. Hence why I said it was the SERIES we needed.
Oh I know it's only 30 minutes. But they never intended a full series anyway. I don't know where you get that from. They wanted to do like 2 or 3 hours of content, initially. Going by memory here. I can be wrong, but I don't think so.
@@lucofparis4819 ok even then 2-3 hours. In the Anime world as an example, that's a full length OVA series. Which is still fine. Still, because of these asinine rules from CBS, we'll never have it now. And that's a shame. 30 minutes, just isn't enough.
Unlike Star Trek Discovery the Axanar series actually made it's ships and uniforms match the era it's supposed to be set in while still looking better than what we got in the 60s
Won't hear me argue. Axanar was the media about the Four Years' War that we deserved, but CBS got greedy.
@@vicroc4 Don't forget jealous. Thst said, I hear Axanar did done questionable things as well.
@@RurouniKalainGaming The major problem with Axanar was that the crowdfunding was TOO effective and raised too much money.
@@chrisdufresne9359 And then someone on the production staff started selling Axanar merch, which allowed CBS to sue them into effective oblivion.
@@willdavis3802 I actually didn't know about the merchandise issue. The main problem I have with the whole thing is that the Axanar crew wasn't picked up by CBS/Paramount for a new series or movie.
The Sisko did not lie: The Defiant-Class was the first pure warship in Starfleet... because The Sisko’s definition of a warship is “A vessel that kicks as much ass as The Sisko”
No Sisko is a liar. But that's fine.
Shhhhh... Better don't tell the Sisko he couldn't defeat the the Eddington :)
The Aries is a cruiser so technically the Sisko did not lie. Except for that time he lied to get the romulans involved in the fight with the Dominion. And got a Romulan Senator, his aides, and a criminal killed... that was a total lie. And when Starfleet classified the Defiant as an escort class ship. That was a lie too. Starfleet Personnel sure lie a lot...
Is this part of the same universe? Didn't they divert it so they can do what ever they wanted?
@@cleny217 CBS certainly tried, but amazingly their lawsuit was struck down, due to 'Axanar' being a not for profit fan production. Last i heard of it, work on the movie has resumed.
Prelude to Axanar's answers more questions about cannon than you think it does. for example...
Q1) how do star fleet ships go from "enterprise" to "TOS" style? A1) the Ares class, It's a perfect blend of both. It's clearly descended from the NX01, but is also clearly the precursor to the Constitution.
Q2) why did the NCC1701 get such a massive overhaul in it's refit. A2) It was made in a hurry, with changes being made as they were built. Thus each Constitution would be different on the inside, and systems and pipes would be messily intertwined as things were put wherever there was space, rather than being carefully designed to fit. It would be much easier to simply rip everything out all at once and do it all again properly, than try to untangle it all and workout how to weave the new system around the existing old mess.
Q3) why did the NCC1701 break down all the time? A3) If she was made the way Prelude suggests, then no consideration would have gone into long term maintanance, and basic repairs would be a nightmare, if not impossible. You'd need a genius like Scotty to keep her systems running at all.
Q4) why do TOS ships have so few windows. A4) there refitted war ships. windows are structural weaknesses.
Q5) why were all starfleet ships in TOS all the same ship type A5) the Klingons destroyed anything that wasn't an Ares or Constitution class. But only the constitution class would be big enough for a peace time refit to explore deep space. If the Arys are still around at all, there probably on boarder patrol.
So cannon wise, the Arys and Axanar in general fit like a glove within star trek cannon. While Discovery fits like a cactus.
@mandellorian that design sadly is not cannonical as it only exists in a design doccument
@@abrr2000 the problem with the NX-01 refit and the Ares class is canonical status. Both are technically Beta canon.
Q/A 4 especially the saucer sections; IF salvageable; would be carried over into more powerful vessels like the original USS Stargazer (NCC-2893)
I like how Axanar shoehorned the Ares class in as a stopgap measure before the Constitution's came on to the battlefield .
The federation has an insidious weapon of expansion; root beer
it is so bubbly, and happy...
Cloying
But if you drink enough of it you actually begin to like it
It’s insidious
just like the federation
This requires a bigger "Like" button.......This story would be epic to watch
It's not canon breaking as Sisko never outright said the USS Defiant was the first Federation Warship. The closest line to the Defiant being the first of anything is...
SISKO: "The Defiant was the prototype, the first ship in what would have been a new Federation battle fleet."
He never said it would have been the "first ever" Federation battle fleet, just a new one. Let's be honest here, the Federation of the 23rd-century was militaristic. There were no families on James Kirk's Enterprise and the Constitution-class was identified by the Klingons as a Federation "Battlecruiser". Both powers had spent decades in a Cold War with each other, which did in fact break out into an on again, off again shooting war.
Starfleet's militaristic tendencies began to decline after the signing of the Khitomer Accords. We can see this at the start of Star Trek VI when Starfleet Admiralty is discussing what would follow peace with the Klingons...
CARTWRIGHT: "Negotiations for what?"
SPOCK: "The dismantling of our space stations and starbases along the Neutral Zone, an end to almost seventy years of unremitting hostility, which the Klingons can no longer afford."
MILITARY AIDE: "Bill, are we talking about mothballing the Starfleet?"
C-IN-C: "Well, I'm sure that our exploration and scientific programs would be unaffected, Captain, but..."
The ending of hostilities with the Klingon Empire meant that Starfleet's priorities would shift from military programs back towards more "exploration and scientific" programs. This is the Starfleet we would see in TNG and the early days of DS9 until the Dominion showed up and Starfleet decided it was time to build a NEW battle fleet. Well technically it was when the Borg showed up, but that plan was put on hold until the Dominion made them dust those plans off.
Axanar is basically showing us the beginning of 23rd-century Starfleet's military endeavors which would end at Star Trek VI. So Sisko's Defiant was not the first Federation warship, but their first NEW warship after a new threat convinced them one was needed again.
Nailed it!
This. This right here.
Well said..
In addition. first drop what you know about naval vessel classifications. then think of the following.
Warship..
Just reading the name you can imagine it being a ship capable of participating in a war.. The Ares does just that, self capable of combat, inteligence, limited medical and troop transport. Border patrol should be no issue vs participating in any fleet actions.
Battleship..
A ship capable of preforming excelent in battle. Armed and armored to bring decisive strenght into the combat zone. With no extra's wasted other then preforming actuall combat. The Defiant class does just that. You have a target, it will take care of it with brute strenght. But it would be ill adviced to do anything else. inteligence, maybe, depends on how much space it would take. But given that our R&D Defiant didn't even had a medbay or a single Biobed i doubt inteligence would be anything beyond a secured com unit. It would have some space for internal security capable of preforming boarding actions, but most of shipboard personel would be dedicated to Operations and Engineering. Should it be properly packed together in a battle fleet design, we would safely see Defiant personel rotated out regularly to other ships with proper R&R facilities.
Ok having said that. You can see where the difference is between the two Designes.
Why the Ares was as good as it preformed, in a war that needed all of strategy, tactics, firepower and durability.
And why the Defiant was good at what it was designed for, the 'Borg' or any other imminant threat. Even if no battlefleets are required at the time. You could still put them scattered around Federation territory. Found a borg ship? All starbases, activate and man your Defiant class vessel(s), rendezvous with other ships at a intercept point and bring all guns to bare. So what we see happen at DS9 should actually be perfectly normal for a Defiant class to be docked and locked at a Starbase.
One thing is that you could politically say if you deploy those Defiants to starbases is that the Federation is actifly militarizing, regardless of Borg threat.
So you can safely say that is why the defiant got scrubbed after R&D got mostly finished. Got the blueprints? We will wait to deploy them.
The problem was there would NEVER be lasting peace with the klingons. As older political leaders were ousted from their positions by younger warriors eager to fight and gain their own glory in battle, the federation would be drawn into conflict incapable of mounting a effective defence. The post kirk era peace was mostly due to chancellor Azetbur and later K'mpec holding back the council with a iron fist.
Axanar is based on the FASA RPG timeline. They invented much of their own Star Trek background taking a huge amount of inspiration from Goldstein and Sternbach's Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology. In the FASA game almost everything is a combat vessel, they have cruisers, destroyers, frigates and the Excelsior is considered a battleship. Unlike the Star Wars RPG which became the cornerstone of their own EU, FASA's ideas about the Star Trek universe were nuked by an angry Gene Roddenberry who thought they were trying to usurp his ideas and he killed the deal. The FASA legacy still simmers among some Trek fans. Because it is more militaristic than what we see in later Trek, Axanar's take, though pretty much its own thing gladly borrows from the idea that the Federation needed warships in time of conflict.
The Sisko argument is an interesting one and we could parse words all day. This class was more optimized for war; it still used the same overall Federation starship components albeit reinforced and weaponized. The Defiant used a different frame, nacelle system and was scratch built for attack against Borg.
*(Axanar Lives)*
Agreed!
Eckhartsladder is chubs?
"Beep"
@@PathsUnwritten
What is "chubbs"?
Bullshit lives
I didn't mean to say Discovery should be hauling Garbage, I meant to say it should be hauled away _AS_ garbage.
LMAO, brilliant comment.
dat referance tho
Laddy, can I buy you a drink?
No bloody A, B, C or D!
No one started a fight then?
id fight by an Andorian any day.
Maybe because they don't hesitate to hop off the moral high horse when the chips are down, and do what needs to get done without being stuck-up about it.
Leggo MuhEggo - Yup, the blue heads are badasses...
The point is a ship like the Ares class are always in the drawers of ship constructors. They are ready, always.
exactly, I mean look how long the defiant sat in a drawer who knows what Starfleet would have in store to follow that up with should their be another great war, because of course they would be working on designs even before the defiant was going into full production, I imagine had the war gone on longer they would of came out with some sort of crazy marry sue ship like the scimitar(which my headcannon was original designed to fight the dominion with as well). shame we don't really see anything like that from the dominion too bad because that is how war works its a race of tech on both sides.
Defiant was designed in 2366, and ready by 2367. It wasn't put in service till 2372. So it wasn't chilling in Drydock for as long as people think.
And then when they really needed to, they built the Prometheus. Its not that Starfleet can't build warships, they just prefer not to. They're a club of nerds who just wanna chill and marvel at the universe. But if you break their telescope, they will build a giant robot to curb stomp you.
The Promethius was probably like the Galaxy class, in that it had a balance of power and capability: Galaxy class not outclassed but overpowered many vessels in Starfleet for several months when it first came out. Promethius is like Galaxy class in that it could seperate; but the later vessel was entirely capable of it. Not only dividing into 2 (lifeboat and weapon) but 3 with defensibility in all. Galaxy just came out in a time of relative peace while Promethius came out in a more restless period.
Even car designers and their teams will tell you... You can only design so many homogenized sedans and SUV's. Sooner or later you want to design a sports car.
To the "First, pure warship," idea. I think BOTH are right. Hers why.
The Defiant was purpose built to do one thing, fight the Borg. So Sisko was right, as no other ship was built to only fight. Case in point, the primary phasers were an experimental design, and the Sick bay was ONE bio bed in a supply closet.
So why is Garth also right? From what is said, and the behind the scenes interviews, I get the impression that the Aries was a pre-designed but never built, ship hull. As the war happened, the design was then updated with the top of the line, but still "off the shelf" technologies, then, Optimized for combat. The spaces that would normally be used for the sciences, would be filled with extra medical and combat personnel. This plays into the Starfleet design philosophy of plug and play ship parts. So after the war, those sections could be repurposed for a more balanced ship role. Though it would still keep a strong Bias for combat, it wouldn't be a pure breed war ship.
Like in DS9 during the Dominion war, I don't think all those ships in the Four Year War, kept a full complement of planetary and stellar scientists, while fighting the Klingons.
Makes sense to me!
That was the inclination I got. The Defiant series was started from a fresh piece of paper. The Ares series used existing technology maximized for combat.
Seems likely the Federation would do that. I mean, look at the Galaxy, that one went the other way with the Enterprise-D being an exploration cruiser and the wartime Galaxys being scary battlecruisers and command ships with: No civilians, better shielding, better engines, more weapons and built in much larger numbers - it also carried a lot of empty hull space because they just left out all the non-combat modules to speed up construction. The Ares could probably be refitted the other way after the war - throw out some torpedo magazines, and half the launchers, scale down sick bay, remove some of the plating to reduce weight and cost and install some basic science equipment and crew amenities. Might not be as comfortable as a Constitution or Galaxy, but it could work as "classic" starfleet multirole vessel.
It always struck me as A contradiction in commonsense that the Federation didn,t build and maintain A dedicated warfleet that was totally configured for war.Facing Klingons and Romulans and later cardassians,Borg and whatever else decided to take A poke at the Federation( No I didn,t forget the Dominion.) It,s A nonsensical strategy to protect the Federation.
excellent answer thank you. so axanar doesnt actually break canon. it fits into neatly. i wonder where garth of izar was during the discovery timeline? i guess the red angel killed him
The Federation should have kept the MACO's and gave them ships like the Ares class and other warship classes to fight for them instead of using science and exploration vessels with people that have no fighting experience during a time of war.
The MACO would have been akin to the Marines and they should have replaced "Security" with these guys
After the UFP was formed the role of the MACOs was mostly taken by Andorian forces but they along with some of their Andorian counterparts were folded into Starfleet security.
ya, the various early wars the feds fought proved the need for a proper military. especially along hostile borders.
You mean earth should have its own specialized force along side Starfleet and those Marcos guys.
Jean-Luc Martel yes seems like it took the dominion war for them to finally concede the point...
Liking just for the title.
I wish we could have seen the entire original movie concept of Axanar; instead we will get a greatly shortened version in two 15-minute episodes. Still looking forward to it. I will never forgive Paramount and CBS for the loss of not only a full Axanar, but all of the great possibilities fan films could have brought use in the future.
Not to mention the pure garbage they produced in it's stead...
And now I'm going to watch Prelude to Axanar...again...for like the 5th time.
Matt C. 5th?
Seems a bit low. Are you sure your a Trekkie? Rofl!
I wish CBS had swallowed their pride and embraced this fan film. They would’ve had a lot more to work with for future series had they bought the script and the production.
@@Thermool lol you caught me. I'm a "casual" Trekkie. Totally agree about CBS embracing Axanar. If only...
When I first heard of Axanar from another channel, I went there immediately and watched it multiple times!
I knew right away why CBS banned it. Not because they couldn't handle the competition, but because there WAS no competition!
Also, a great little ship.
The design of the ships and the scenes are awesome, true Star Trek. I wish I could design ships like this. But I'm working on it.
Do you do cgi design?
@@skyeplaysgames6734 I try, click on my avatar icon and you will see my fleet. Any comment are welcome. ;)
The space scenes are by the German Tobias Richter, aka thelightworks.com - check out his Wallpaper and Portfolio section for some stunning pictures (hint-wallpapers-hint!). :) He's worked on games, Star Trek Phase II, did Trek book covers and whatnot. Before I read the credits, when watching Prelude to Axanar, I already suspected this might be his work - he has a certain style of lighting and moving the models in his animations.
I'm happy that Axanar at least gets a short closure...
Looking forward to the results. Keep it up, Zefram!
And this is why I like axonar more the discovery. Story wise, lore wise it fits better. Just like enterprise try to explain ridgeless klingons. Could you make a video about that?
I thought he already did.
@@Zachomara oohh cool. Need 't look it up then
Well, they explained TOS klingons in Enterprise. So technically ridgeless.
worf replies to the question, "what happened to klingon foreheads" by saying "we dont like to talk about that." in a TNG episode where they go back to Kirk Era time line, oh and Dax looked hot as hell in that episode, wearing a 60's miniskirt!
I love the seemless blend of TOS and Kelvin design and technologies.
I agree and I really don't care for the Kelvin timeline ships but they definitely fit in there very nicely
@@dougc190 I kinda love the Kelvin ships. They're attractive, industrial but also cleanly designed. They look exceptionally human, and I like that.
They took several of the JJ-verse ships and re-did them as early TOS designs. They go over in in a couple Trekyards episodes.
I’m pretty sure that the Federation knows it can roll over all the other Alpha Quadrant powers If it felt like it and probably uses that as diplomatic leverage
All the hostile powers of the alpha and beta quadrants are like dumb frat boys trying to hit a bear and underestimating it just because its trying to be friendly. You would not want to meet a pissed off Federation.
All the other powers exist because the Feds let them exist
a very quiet and easily accessible truncheon displayed during diplomatic talks not something flaunted or obvious...but none the less very much indirectly evident that proceedings would warrant its inclusion in all negotiations
Like the andorians say, dont push the pink skins to the thin ice. You force the federation to think, act and fight like soldiers, you'll see just how deadly their new toys will be when they fly out of their shipyards, manned by fired up captains willing to fight and die for the federation's ideals.
Gorgeous ship built to fight.
So I’ve been trying to square this class with the Defiant Class of ship for about a year now ever since first found Axenar and I think I have a solution that works with cannon save for the Cannon destroying Discovery, so we know that before Undiscovered Country Starfleet considered itself a military with an exploration primary mission as several times in the series kirk directly refers to himself as a soldier and in the meeting of the Admirals and Captains early in the movie they talk as military personnel about the dangers of mothballing Starfleet, and then after Undiscovered Country Picard and Riker seem to see themselves as Explorers who double as defenders of the Federation. Now that the background is out of the way we get to what was said in the Defiant’s introduction, Sisko calls it a warship, then Kira says she didn’t think Starfleet made warships, note we know Kira’s knowledge of Federation history is not the best as in the mirror universe episode she fails to recognize Kirk’s name so she’s only speaking about modern Starfleet, then Sisko says that the Defiant was meant to be the First of the Federation’s NEW BATTLE FLEET, nothing about if The Federation ever had an older Battle fleet In fact now one could say it was a repeat of history for the Federation to get complacent and then have to build a warship to because their multi-role ships had become too focused on exploration and not enough on defense, what are you think?
@Snake Plisken no we're not but I'm not going to justify my position to you I've found that talking to 90% of STD fans is like talking to a hard-core Radical political drone of any party rational arguments mean nothing.
@Snake Plisken OK so you why are you even watching Lore Reloaded, because by your so called "logic" he's a criminal too? But we all know that you don't actually believe any of that your only trying to provoke me so you can convince your self I'm the bad guy and your better than me well I'm done playing this game, though since you claim to be a HP fan I'm going to ask you who here's acting like a Death Eater, because I'm pretty sure it's not me.
@Snake Plisken okay I’ll play for just a little bit longer first of I see no link so I can’t play it, but further more you’re attempting to change the subject of the argument instead of dealing with the problem of the fact that Axinar works with established Star Trek lore than STD dose, but I’m just going to throw you a bone and pretend you’re doing this in good faith because I Generally want to believe in the best in people and just say that the people behind Axinar have complied with every unreasonable request by Viacom CBS to remain within the the bonds of fair use so it’s legal just like Lore Reloaded is now if you have any compelling lore related reason Axinar doesn’t work 100 times better than STD I would love to hear it if not well let’s just agree to disagree like reasonable none fanatical political nut jobs, okay?
@Snake Plisken okay I’m done, considering the fact that STD is a dark, gritty action show that introduces a war we’ve never heard, where as Axinar is based on a war we’ve heard of in TOS that means between the 2 Axinar fits better, also the battle scenes are better choreographed and fit better with the culture we see going on between Klingons and humans in TOS and I could go on and on but I’m not going to as we both no you’re not really listening and have no intention of agreeing to disagree because this isn’t a good faith argument so I’m not playing this game anymore this is my last reply I’m unilaterally deciding to agree to disagree.
@Snake Plisken in the episode Whom Gods Destroy Garth of Izar was introduced and he was a hero of the “Battle of Axenar” the 4 years war was just a framing device, and before you ask the STD war is to late to be the Battle of Axenar war as it’s after Kirk is already graduated from the academy so again we agree to disagree
Would of loved to see a full feature length film of this, hopefully those 15minute episodes work out well.
One reason why I loved DS9 was the Dominion War story arc. Science fiction, *good* science fiction, asks questions of the reader /viewer. It asks the uncomfortable moral and ethical questions that keeps a thoughtful person awake at night, like 'at what point does a machine become a person'? In DS9, that question was 'Can the Federation live up to it's lofty ideals while losing a war that it cannot win'?
The exploration of that theme made for some of the best television sci-fi writing since The Twilight Zone.
So you can see why I'm looking forward to seeing the finished Axanar product. As I understand things, the lawsuit has been settled between the producers and CBS and production can continue. Here's hoping that the finished product lives up to the high bar that they've set for themselves.
Why couldn’t cbs apologise and offer Alec and his team a chance to create a Star Trek set after enterprise and before discovery
With Les Moonves' resignation, perhaps smarter execs will see the talent at Axanar and bring them onboard to either fix Discovery or replace it.
@@whirledpeaz5758 Wasn't their some controversy with axanar? Unpaid actors and pocketing of raised funds? Something to that degree, or was that just blown out of proportion?
@@Sceth I don't know for sure. I just know that the Prelude to Axanar was so well done IMO that CBS should have embraced it and brought it into the fold instead of Squashing it.
@@whirledpeaz5758 Yeah, I agree, it was done very well, it's just a shame it's marred in controversy and CBS bullshit.
@@Sceth Greed, pure and simple. The CBS crackdown on fan-produced vids was bound to happen, from the moment CBS acquired the show, for the express purpose of milking the franchise for every dollar it was worth. Hell, even if it had remained the property of Paramount, eventually someone was going to decide that the fan productions were a serious threat. AXANAR showed CBS that they had a formidable enemy in the fans themselves, who had already grown tired of the 're-imagining' of their beloved STAR TREK, and who were willing and able to out-Trek the new STAR TREK, while sticking (more or less) to canon.
Who put my DS9 in my TOS?
DS9 was always in your TOS; they just never showed it.
Having used ACTUAL Star Trek actors (like some fan series, but unlike others) like Gary Graham and J G Hertzler makes this series all the more legit.
Which is why the "agreement" CBS shoved down Alec Peter's throat includes a ban on actors employed by Trek. AS IF one company can dictate what roles actors take or don't take. That's a SAG arbitration action waiting to happen.
Sisko calling the Defiant the Federations first warship is because of one thing.
Federation propaganda and revisionism has removed almost all traces of warships in Federation history. Unless you really study Federation history and dig-up all the files and documents that the Federation has quietly shoved in a corner and allowed to gather dust.
After-all the Federation would NOT destroy information. But it would bury it so deep it's next to impossible to find.
And Ares was built long before Sisko was born so that kinda makes sense.
That or Axanar simply breaks canon... Either way, this excellent fan fiction is less egregious than a "spore drive".
Also, Ares class could be refitted for other purposes after the war. Then it's original purpose would be known just among people interested in military history, which in our world is a niche topic, even among military officers. I would imagine that Sisko calling defiant the first warship would be met with Picard's "ACTUALLY...".
@@sir0herrbatka all that is said here is true, not to mention how quickly history forgets once people stop talking about topic sure people still talk about ww2 today but like others have said that is a very niche topic still
Also even Sisko noted that the federation didn't like to call the Defiant a Warship, they called it an escort ship... They were revising history before it was even written XD
The design of the ship feels like it belongs in the TOS Era.
Their version of the defiant.
Small nimble and powerful.
Given the tech of the time its quite impressive.
I don't think it breaks canon, it was recorded differently in the Federation classification of ships. Example: Sisko call the Defiant a warship, but Star Fleet recorded it as an escort vessel. Even when The Lakota engaged the defiant, it could not stop it because they were not aware of the armor on the ship: ua-cam.com/video/dBmmlHR1Bwg/v-deo.html . I think the same can be said about the Ares!
good that axanar is back
for 15 min only
I love the trailer for Axanar - it's so convincing, humans, klingons and vulcans just telling the story like it was a Battle of Britain.
Axanar is truly true Startrek at its finest and best ever since the original series, Any ways you did a very good job of informatively executing and explaining everything very well indeed 👌.
Still better than Discovery.
Discovery is a piece of art.
@@brielsaideles ...bad art
The Earth ships that fought the Romulans in the 22nd century were warships, or Earth would be a cinder long before Pike. Looking at the original scripts of TOS, season one and two (ignore any later changes and backfill):
There must be light speed and above in the 21st and 22nd century as Zephram Cochrane is "of Alpha Centauri" so he created warp from a colony.
The Romulan war occurred a century before 2266. It was crude, no ship to ship viewers, long range atomic war and predated the Federation or Earth's membership. It was an "Earth/Romulan War" leaving "Earth Outposts". The Romulans didn't have Warp Drive even in 2266. Therefore their fleet took years long voyages to attack Earth colonies. The Empire is probably quite close. Probably just on the other side of Vulcan.
The time barrier (stardrive added to Earth saucer ships) was resolved between the science expedition crash on Talos IV and Pike's rescue expedition (20 years).
Kirk encounters " The First Federation" of Balock and leaves a Starfleet research officer, ten years after the Talos IV incident. Six months later scripts start mentioning the UFP. Obviously not Balock's but similar.
The Klingons are the rival colonizing/spreading mercantile race to Earth and The Federation. The "war" of the past would be mentioned later. As the US had never been in a declared war against the "USSR" it is likely that the original history had no war, as it was a Cold War by parties that had never taken each other on directly.
Later movies, books and series have ignored, rewritten or tried to meld these things. However if viewed in filming order it seems pretty clear that Star Trek star drives and the Federation membership is quite recent for Kirk. Probably within his 35 years. Life on Earth colonies when he was a lad was quite dicey. The fleet and government is still quite full of officers that don't share the ideals of Spock, Kirk and Bones. Ethnic hatred is still pretty strong. Earth is still a young star race.
I'm just blown away with the Axanar stuff. And their interview/documentary format stuff is a interesting way to go that I really enjoy.
What fans wanted: Axanar
What NO fans wanted: Discovery
And CBS Hated ...and tried to kill.
I mean they(CBS and or the showrunner they hired) didn't even come up with an original idea for Discovery(they just blatently took whole chunks of an obscure game/fiction and slapped on Star Trek stickers. They even got caught by the original Creator and they sorta changed a few things while still giving only in my mind half as...er, hearted writing effort.) in the first place and they bitch about this well made(and mostly Original) Fan Fiction? Only one episode I really enjoyed (Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad) the rest were meh and maybe Huh at best. CBS doesn't know what it wanted/wants from Discovery the production design says it in the first episode, call back(to TOS pilot('s)) hand props and then ENT era evolution uniforms and JJ-verse ships and ship scale. Nobody could decide on what "look" to go with, but CBS (who could have given some direction) seems to have said "..include everything to draw in the most viewers..." The (now former) showrunner('s?) Included everything, just really poorly, almost like 'cut and paste' done without thought to where it was done. Ship scale is wonky, uniforms don't match up and tone of show seems like 'Star Trek' was just added to the series to sell it. Relable Orville with Star Trek and it could work... Discovery should have used Something else...
me I like Discovery
@@sevendaggerssix7298 CBS and its management of its StarTrek asset ist pure capitalistic. How in nine hells do you come up with "a socialist breeding ground"…?
@@lordrhavin because if CBS was truly capitalist, they would have went to the Axanar project and said hey we'll help you, and we'll air it as a special for Star Trek's 50th anniversary.
@@sevendaggerssix7298 you know that the federation is the representation of what Marx wanted for socialist. And especially communism. I dont think you know what that word means.
man a Star Trek ship done right (Cough Discovery )
Not to mention the "Klingon"
blake stout , Discovery looks like a badly designed hybrid between a flying saucer and arrow! When I first saw the ship, I literally said are you kidding?! I know kids that had more imagination!
You know, everytime i watch Axanar i recognise and appreciate it's pure class. It is impressive and it looks absolutely fantastic. Then i think about Discovery, and how horrible it is, and the lack of respect with which it approaches canon in look and content. It takes placing Axanar and Discovery side by side to realise how terrifically horrible STD is as a Trek series.
Personally, I think it’s a damn good looking ship. I love what Axanar Studios did here both aesthetically and capabilities. Where it falls in canon is also fun, I think it tells a good story over all.
oh and loving the series keep up the good work
Axanar means that I do not have a suffer from any STD's. 😆
If only CBS and the Axanar producers could've got a deal going.....then Axanar would be the current cannon series...... I can wish, I suppose.
I watch the axanar vlogs and i must say i'm hyped for the upcoming 2 miniseries
If Starfleet did build large numbers of Ares class ships, it stands to reason that they had to find something to do with them after the war ended. My guess is that they were retrofitted for exploration and scientific missions after the war ended, making them no longer technically a warship, and giving Sisko the tiny little bit of wiggle room his statement needs.
CBS plagiarized their whole first season from Axanar.
Not really. They plagiarized their whole first season from an independent game called, Tardigrades... and got taken to court for it.
@@johnevans6084 And was recently dismissed, as a judge ruled that adventures in space with a tardigrade isn't something you can copyright. Leonard French, a copyright attorney, basically said that unless Anas Abdin could prove CBS found his game and said let's use this story for Discovery, he had no case.
@@Thatguy101987 Those fuckers at CBS _won?!_ It wasn't just the tardigrade, there were uncanny and inexplicable parallels in casting as well. Abdin would practically have had to be inside CBS looking over the staffer's shoulder when it was discovered, that's a ridiculous standard of proof!!!
I love the Ares class. It works for the audience of today, but still fits with the aesthetics of TOS. I would've preferred CBS licensing Axanar the use of Trek to make the full-length movie. We'll have to see how it turns out when it's all said and done. At the very least, we can be thankful for Prelude.
As far ar STD, I've only seen the pilot. I'm not interested in paying to watch one show. The Klignons as depicted in the pilot and Michael's behavior/connection to Spock really didn't appeal to me. Pilots/first seasons are generally not good, but they butchered the Klingons, came up with the "Vulcan Hello" nonsense and gave Spock a sister? It's as if these people never watched Star Trek. My first bad omen was the design of Discovery itself.
On the positive, I love the other Starfleet vessel designs, though Axanar's fit better. The special effects were great and I loved captain Georgiou.
What Peters did is fucked up. Used fans to pay for his company ,pay himself a salary .Peters made himself the Mary sue of his film Garth of altar is the bestest ever .
One of my favorite videos of yours
Now THIS Star Trek done right!
The Ares class is gorgeous.
Just a beautiful ship and a tragic story. This is the trek we deserve
I’m guessing the Ares class wasn’t remembered as a warship class. It’s a near certainty that after the 4 Years War, they were refitted for Starfleet’s more traditional mission of exploration. Thus, by Sisko’s time it would have been remembered as a general purpose cruiser like the Constitution class and be seen (rightfully) as its direct predecessor. That’s my theory anyways.
I love the Ares class and Axanar. Wish we had a full Axanar series.
DS9 does not say that the Defiant was the first warship. Just that at that point in time/era startfleet didn't make warships. Isn't the TOS dreadnought cannon?
Ah the dreadnought, I always loved that ship even though the twin deflectors made no sense.
This should’ve been the new Star Trek show not Star Trek discovery it’s closer to cannon than std
I think it perfectly fit to this game.... Maybe prequel of it
ua-cam.com/video/u1bUDUxcVcc/v-deo.html
I LOVE the Ares class.
Tom Clancy described a frigate in one of his books and in my mind it is the best criteria for any sci-fi warship in any franchise:
"Any beauty that might be seen in her was completely secondary to her ugly function, to find, identify, and engage her enemies, winner take all. But to professional navy sailors she was a pageant queen... sleek lines, efficient design, and powerful systems. She was first and foremost a warship, and she was going lookin' for a fight."
THAT is how I see the Ares.
This whole situation with the Andorians and Vulcans backing the federation reminds me of a bar fight where all the people in the bar are "behind you" cheering while you fight and take the beating.
is there any chance they will ever finish Axanar? I've watched Prelude to Axanar about five times which {IMO} is the best Star Trek we've gotten since DS9.
Considering the rules CBS put in place regarding fan works and the fact that they are suing (or counter-suing, I forget) the creator of Axanar... I wouldn't bet on it.
There was a settlement and Axenar is being allowed to make two 15 minute episodes. They have weekly update videos. This week was opening all the ship badges from China.
What little of Axanar we will get, thanks to the CBS lawsuit, is finally back in production. Fucking CBS. If it wasn't for the dedication of fans, fanfiction, fan game designers, etc. _they wouldn't even have an intellectual property franchise to ruin in the fashion they currently are_
CBS, who had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of Star Trek or any of the classic species in it, crying infringement of "their" intellectual property is a joke. They didn't create it, they didn't make it what it is, and they didn't keep it thriving throughout the years. They've proven time and again they don't have the intellect for the property.
Take a look at Star Trek: Renegades.
I don't so much care for Discovery, Axanar is canon in my eyes.
First I've heard of this series and gotta say, I love the documentary style.
Yea, I do as well. I don't think they are continuing that style with the actual axanar episodes - which I honestly urged them too.
I like the design of the ARes, but it honestly feels more like it belongs in the TOS movie era, not pre-TOS, largely because of the glowing deflector and the under-slung nacelles. But I really do love the fan designs for the era, they go into a more 'sciencepunk' direction where it still has the classic Trek look, but there's just all these things added to the designs that make them feel a little more real.
Like EC Henry's Pacfic design, that ship is just amazing to me because of it's modular design. It makes perfect sense. And as for Axanar as a whole...Well I really appreciate the effort as a whole, but the acting...Or maybe it's just the writing, but I shouldn't be cringing when freaking Martok delivers what should be an epic line. I like that they got Helen Tigh in there though.
Axanar is is true Star Trek prequel.
Not STD.
Could you do a Klingon empire vs the Dominion?
Although that would be a glorious battle the Klingons on their own had no chance over the Dominion. Doing a video would be pointless without doing a CGI battle sequence that likely CBS wouldn't allow.
@@kenjett2434 true but if the Klingons had worf martok kang in his good years they might stand a chance
With mess that is Klingon goverment, Klingons would be growing food for dominion by the time Voyager gets home.
on a Tech level the dominion is to far ahead of the empire, however the KDF vs the Dominion with starfleet secretly backing the empire giving them better weapons/shields tech would even the odds and make it an interesting take.. however if you want to make it less speculative and more based off the empire a KDF+Romulan alliance vs the Dominion I do think that would be more even, perhaps even winnable by the two empires... only problem I just don't see said empires forming an alliance, they have in the past but my headcannon on that(no clue how it stacks up) is more so the Romulans helping the klingons to use them as a sort of proxy war vs starfleet so they could finish the blow themselves after the KDF is to weak, and then they could take the enitre quadrant for themselves.
**edit also no cardasian support for the dominion, they come in take bajor and it would go from there on their own no alliances for them.
KDF vs. DOM, the DOM wins through attrition. Vorcha's and Neg'Vars can be destroyed by a single Jem'Hadar escort ramming it. Ground combat, it's much the same the DOM pulls through by attrition, Klingons will fight to the death, but the Jem'hadar losses are replaced faster than the KDF can bring in reinforcements, and once all the most skilled and talented Klingon warrior are dead, that's it. Just like how the Japanses expended the lives of thier elite pilot core in Kamikaze attacks, and only had pilots with a dozen hours of training left to defend Japan by the time the nukes where dropped during WW2.
Love the ship, and I love the format of the little SF Action Documentary.
Man, the guy they had playing Captain Garth even looks a lot like the TOS actor. That's pretty good casting!
What is your favorite star trek ship?
Mine is the defiant
Prometheus.
@Gareth Fairclough
The USS Prometheus NX-59650
Excelsior. The 2000, not the Enterprise-B variant.
@@GeofftheIronwolf it is a great ship true
Better yet a Defiant class ship only much larger. That would be a ship with teeth.
$1.4mil in crowd funded assets, to make Axnar. Alec thought it was ok, to pay himself a salary from it. That's what he got into trouble over. But to hear him talk on the Axnar channel, He's a innocent victim by Big Corporate over "Fare Use", and CBS was just wasting his time with the lawsuit.
Bootlicker, take your liea elsewhere!
great respect for those talented fans who worked very hard to give us some incredible material
Love the video, yes what is the first warship lol so glad u brought that up!
I love the design and the feel of Axnar and the Ares class ship. We have two 15 minute episodes that should be released this year of Axnar. I wonder how the fans will responded to it over Discovery. Axnar still lives!!!
Actually better done than the regular Star Trek movies of late.
They need to make a series about this Id watch the heck outta this
Stray thought, but a Vulcan quoting an Andorian about Humans in this context of 'Don't push the pink-skins to the thin ice' (about that ship facing Klingons) would really just make me proud to be in the Federation. :)
I do love the over all design of the ship, plus also it looks even better when it is given the refit look like the Enterprise A...
one of my favorite ship designs. after the war i could see it being retrofitted for other missions easy enough
Love the Ares design. No vulnerable neck separating primary and secondary hulls
I am going to give Sisko the benefit of a doubt. It is possible he is strictly referring to the modern Starfleet. The one that arose as a result of the demilitarization after the Khitomer Accords. Because we _know_ that Starfleet was meant to be a peacekeeping force that could go to war at any seconds against the Romulans and Klingons. But after the Accords, Starfleet became a Scientific Organization that does not like to even participate in wargames or keep their combat skills sharp.
I love this series! I hear that they were able to get 2 fifteen minutes episodes.
A documentary, about a documentary about a fictional universe.
i really like the way that axenar drops perfectly (almost) into the old timeline, and not only fits the old lore but is also true to Roddenberry's vision!
very refreshing for an old Trekkie like me to see!
I grew up with reruns of StarTrek on bbc2, then when I was 14 TNG aired on bbc2, I can still remember the shock that many older fans experienced at seeing a Klingon on the bridge of the enterprise but for us kids it fitted perfectly with the original ethos of trek and of course the ethos of star wars both of which were based on "judge a person, not by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character" for my generation (gen x) that whole cultural ethos was a deeply sacred belief bordering on the religious.
which is why it pain's so many of us to see millennials openly opposing that stance in their attempts to destroy all we held dear and rewrite history to make us look like the racist ones when it actual fact it is the leftist millennials with their insidious racism of low expectations that are the truely reprehensible racist thugs!"
My take on "the first ship built for war": The Ares-class, while designed first and foremost for combat, could later be refitted to carry out more standard Starfleet missions at a later date. The Defiant class is little more than a weapons platform with engines. It's ill-suited to any other role outside of combat.
Basically, the Ares-class is a cobat focused ship that can still do other things. The Defiant is a single purpose ship the does one thing REALLY well.
I think this is definitely the first war ship i just got a wonderful feeling when seeing it
I really love how this class looks like a 23rd century version of the luna class. You can clearly see the resemblance
I love this ship and the fact that you can tell how much the creators love the lore by trying to not screw it up
What I like is that this also seems like a TOS version of the Luna class starship
These are fans. These are the people who are keeping the real Star Trek going because of love and passion for the series, not the corporate suits whose decisions are based on dollar signs. CBS should let them make their movie. Of course, anything the corporate suits make would compare poorly and they just can't let that happen. CBS will end up losing us old Star Trek fans.
IMHO, nobody was ever smart with federation technology. For instance, a ship should be fitted with multiple transporters with permanent memory. Once a ship has had its shakedown cruise and all modifications are made, the ship should be transporter scanned, bit by bit, from stem to stern. Its vital systems all committed to permanent memory. Then, when any vital part is damaged, the damage is scanned and discarded, then the new part from memory is transported into place. As good as new in just a couple seconds - even faster repairs than the Borg. Think about it - shields going from destroyed to fully functional in just a few seconds. Structural and hull integrity restored to 100% in seconds.
Additionally, why let anyone die? Every time someone is transported on a mission, they should be committed to memory until their return. The memory could be purged upon their arrival. Or, every morning, someone can scan himself just like taking a shower. That memory can remain until updated. If anyone dies, that memory can be used with the transporters to recreate the person - sans whatever memories of what happened since the last update. Voila - nobody ever dies unless the ship itself is destroyed. Yes, I know. Transporters take a gawd awful amount of memory and energy. But what about the investment they already put into training Starfleet personnel? Why would we worry about energy consumption if it can save the ship from destruction? Sure, there are times you should fire phasors instead of repairing the shield. And that can be worked out in simulations. But to go without it entirely seems... stupid. And how would you like it if Starfleet came to you and said your child died. They could have recreated him, but they opted to purge him from the transporter memory, and opted to never keep his patterns in memory at all. I'd be going, "you cheap *$*#&".
Additionally, we all know Federation starships were not to use cloaking tech. But that doesn't mean we can't have it installed and ready to go. If we were to go to war with the Klingons, you would think that treaty would be null and void anyway. So it would make sense to have the device - just not use it.
The B-52 bomber has some powerful ECM transmitters. There is an international treaty that prevents anyone from using the emergency beacon signals - those are the frequencies we use to locate downed aircraft and such - for communications... or jamming them. But the B-52 has a switch that is wired in the 'off' position with copper safety wire. You can't break that wire by accident, but you can if you mean to. That switch enables the bomber to jam those emergency frequencies. And our crews are authorized to jam those emergency frequencies if they think their enemy is using them to communicate or track the bomber. In other words, we can jam it if we want to - but we never do because have never needed to. The same can be said of cloaking devices on Starfleet ships. And it would be a strong incentive for the Klingons to never go to war with the Federation.
We can cloak if we want to. We can leave your ships behind
Because your friends can't cloak, and if they can't cloak, then that 's no friends of mine.
So ready for this movie!
I love how it mirrors the D-6. The nacelles down below the hull unlike the classic Starfleet design.
Pretty funny how the fans can keep the TOS aesthetics while still making it look upto date
"And as always, make your story a good one..." yes, thank you very much. mine has been a good one, and scary at times, and triumphant other times...
It's a truism that most of our historical perspectives begin the day we were born. That being the case, I'm not surprised by Sisko's comments when he introduced the Defiant vs ST: Axanar. I extend that premise to Picard, who maintained that Starfleet wasn't a military, but rather an exploratory, organization... the truth is, it had been for about 80 years before TNG started. The biggest conflict we know about was the Cardassian Border War... and the Cardies weren't exactly a match for the Federation back then.
This needs to be a full documentary type series like it is and I also want to see a retrofit of the ares class because why not?