WHOOPS! Eric Helms Corrects The Record On His Bulking Study (Full Interview)
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- I always try to get it right, but this time I didn't.
00:00:00 Geoff Says Hello
00:01:30 Eric’s Journey To Pro
00:07:05 Is Natural Bodybuilding...Actually Natural?
00:22:35 Natural vs Enhanced Conditioning
00:25:00 The Bulking Study and Bulking Recommendations
00:45:00 Noobie Gains Are An Exception?
00:55:43 Science, Gurus,
01:08:19 Misuse of Science
01:22:00 Anecdotal Vs Scientific Evidence
01:42:00 Natural Bodybuilding Standards
For more stuff from Eric, check out:
3dmusclejourney.com
muscleandstrengthpyramids.com
massresearchreview.com/
@helms3dmj on Instagram
Iron Culture podcast also highly recommended. There are many monster episodes there.
My books:
Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates)
www.verityfit.com/product-pag...
Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts)
www.verityfit.com/product-pag...
Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters)
www.verityfit.com/product-pag...
Can check the site for full Tables Of Contents of each book. Appreciate the support!
Custom Training Plans and One-On-One Mentorship:
Email geodude412 (at symbol thingy) yahoo (dot symbol thingy) com
Bother Me On Instagram:
/ geoffreyverityschofield - Спорт
Thanks again to Dr. Helms for being so generous with his time!
This wasn't really *exactly* how I had planned on starting things, but I've considered doing long form podcast style collabs for a while now. I'll obviously have to get sound+video on my end sorted out a bit (I tried to record my audio locally but that failed), as well as practice the whole learning how to talk thing, plus time zones will make scheduling interesting, but I'm excited to see where this goes.
So...who else should I have on the channel?
You think you could get Mike Isratael on? Or the other Eric Trexler
Talk to Abel! You guys are both great.
Mike Israetel. Layne Norton.
Listening now land it’s great so far! Love that you started doing these long form podcast style interviews now. Great moment when Dr. Helms tells you that he’s a big fan of your content! 💪
7:20 Proof! Eric Helms pro natural bodybuilder...hardly any traps. Geoffrey, (fake) natural bodybuilder...massive traps. Do a video on your p.e.d stack Geoffrey.
Geoff I just want to point out you're excellent as an interviewer because you ask a question and allow your guest to speak instead of talking over them and making it all about yourself. Which is something that even people whose entire channels are based on interviewing others have issues with.
Two Muscle Zaddies talking Muscle Zaddy things, I’m in all the way.
Invite geoff onto Iron podcast.
Thought this was just some random dude from India…. It’s Omar.
I had to look up what a zaddy was lol
2 HOUR INTERVIEW WITH ERIC LESSS GOOOOOOOOOO
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Love seeing this new wave of the fitness industry. It's got integrity, which is something thats been sorely missed.
Appreciate you being one of the guys helping turn it around Geoff.
Wow! It’s absolutely amazing to see Dr. Eric Helms on the channel. I was really waiting for this collaboration to happen and I’m so happy to see that it did. I’m extremely excited to watch this and I’m certain that I’m going to really love it. You guys are two of my most favorite individuals in the fitness scene as you both are highly credible and knowledgeable. Thank you for sharing all the great and helpful information as well as your very valuable experience with us. Highly appreciate Eric for taking the time to share his insights and perspective with us. I’m deeply grateful to you guys for all the helpful information and knowledge. Thanks once again! 🙏
Either I go to bed or listen to a 2-hour podcast of Geoff and Eric at 11pm here in the Philippines. Gotta listen to this while I drift away in my sleep
48:37 Little shot at NH 😄
And at 1:25:13 maybe?
@@Amantino Yup several times
@@PauIdenino I made the previous comment before finishing the rest of the video and was disappointed by Eric, who I've always respected, taking several more jabs at NH. I wonder if he even watched the full video or just read the title and made up his mind.
@@AmantinoI think you glorify NH too much,he isn’t always right you know, but people like you will defend him no matter what. NH made baseless ridiculous statements in the video itself and was very dogmatic,Eric definitely was right in calling him out due to his limited training knowledge.
I don’t get why everyone’s acting like NH said “strength doesn’t matter”. His criticism was about power-building as a method to get as big as possible. He may be wrong about that but he never said getting stronger wasn’t part of the equation.
The last thing I expected when opening up youtube was a 2 hour long GVS video with a goofy ahh thumbnail.
Okay jokes aside I'm excited
This is so wholesome, Eric consistently reminding Geoffrey that he's not a bad guy. It warms my heart.
What do you mean “reminding” ?
No one ever thought he was a bad guy.
@@spodergibbs5088 you don't need anybody thinking you're a bad guy to be reminded. That's the point of the word reminded.
But when Geoff reviewed the study he didn't exactly agree with the findings and Eric was telling him that his intentions were in the right place, despite his interpretation.
@@ExdruidGaming I’m reminded about how gay I am.
@@spodergibbs5088 clever.
@@spodergibbs5088you are straight. Holy shit, you are straight. In a room of fifty straight guys, you are the straightest. No one's straighter than you
Nice chat gents! And Geoffrey, you trying put me out of a job :P?
Really appreciate this conversation. Eric is someone I need to listen to and read more often. Definitely appreciate being evidence-based vs. science-based and knowing the distinction.
Really great, Geoff. And thanks to Eric as well for sitting down to speak with you and discuss how the study can be misinterpreted by us lay folk.
OOOOH MY LORD I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING GEOFFREY AND ERIC HELMS LET’S GOOO
Downloading so I can listen to it during my commute, been looking forward to hearing you guys two speak, so much to learn 🙏
Cok hosuna gidecek :)
Geoffrey looks like how I look when I watch his videos lmao
Now this is what I live for 💪 listened to this while I was working out. Did extra mobility work to finish the interview 😅 thanks.
This clarified sooo much.
Eric seems like such a good dude. I always appreciate the way he teaches, clarifying a point, or backtracking if he wasn't making his real thoughts absolutely clear.
It was a delight to see him win the pro card. While I wish bodybuilding competitors didn't have to diet so hard to win and was more like it was in the 50's and 60's, I'd much rather we had that than the enhanced shows we have today.
Thanks for doing the interview!
Also lol'ed the powerbuilding is not a monstrosity comments. I love NH. I've learned so much from him, but I find it hard to agree with him on that one.
Eric Helms always brings great information. Good discussion 👍
Great conversation between two intelligent and humble men!
Fantastic video, watched beginning to end!
Great interview. Listening for the second time.
Absolutely excellent video!!! ❤
Thanks for the podcast, Geoff! Helms has always seemed like a very genuine dude 💪 and love the earring
Thanks for bringing on Eric Harris, GVS!
Excellent information. Thanks 👍🏽🏋🏽♂️💪🏽💯🔥
Excellent content.
This is awesome 😊
Starting a bulk on Saturday this is precisely what i need
How big is your calorie surplus?
Eric the GOAT
Geoff on the left acting like me on a Teams call to my boss
Now if I can just get a video of Sam Sulek being put through a grueling Mike Israetel RP workout, all my UA-cam collab dreams will have come true.
lol watching from the future I think you got what you wanted !
I would be interested in a conversation between NH and someone who took issue his video, specifically because it would be a lot less dramatic than the whole "debate" has been.
I'm not convinced that everyone got the same message from NH's video, largely due to his abrasive style. I feel like there's more agreement between everyone than they realize, so to me lot of the responses have sounded like people just talking past each other and focusing on completely different issues.
I think that in an actual conversation, NH would be way less abrasive or extreme in his terminology, so his meaning would be clearer, and then the other person would be able to respond thoughtfully to the points they actually disagree with and us viewers would receive a much more fruitful discussion.
Also I love GVS and Helms in conversation with one another. Let's have more of these kinds of vids, Geoff!
No more powerbuilding videos please...
@@Croissantrophy.meme.channel I actually strongly agree with you on that.
I'd like a conversation because I think it would actually lead somewhere, but I've had more than enough of the "response" style videos.
Yeah i think if naturalhypertrophy actually spoke with someone things would be clearer
@@Croissantrophy.meme.channelit exposed your false idol huh 😅
Well this is a treat
love this
Great interview 😃 i listen on 2x speed 🚄🚄🚄
Others have mentioned this too, but just gotta say, it's such a blessing to have an interviewer who knows how to nonverbally affirm the other person and does without the constant "u-huh" or similar. Jeff Nippard does this all the time unfortunately and his otherwise stellar podcasts are worse for it.
Yea Nipprd does that a lot and it’s really annoying
Its a great talk 10/10 , its just the audio on your end lets it down in places.
I am very proud of you Geoff
The subtle dig at Natural Hypertrophy at 1:25:12 is hilarious, and totally warranted 😹
I like NH a lot, but Eric is right here, NH has never actually trained other people, and so all of his training/exercise recommendations are things which worked for him, and he tends to arrogantly extrapolate it onto everyone else.
He can get quite dogmatic at times and sometimes it feels like he'll just pull out crazy statements like "powerbuilding is an abomination" or "incline curls are trash" out of his ass.
He's overall a positive force though, all of his programs are free and he doesn't hide anything behind a pay wall, which is rare in youtube fitness.
@@SN-ow1bpNH complained about GVS stating he portrayed him as “ some kind of dogmatic pure bodybuilder “ in his video….then goes on to make ad hominem attacks against guys who choose to train for size and strength by saying they have “ spaghetti arms “ lol,that guy is a walking contradiction and I don’t personally like him. He does have good positions though when it comes to promoting being a noble natty and not putting anything behind a paywall which is admirable.
Christmas is still 3 weeks away but here is a 2 hours worth of present. I guess the Christmas tree will be empty for this reason 😂
Nothing beats authenticity...keep doing what you're doing and your stock will grow organically.
Say what you will, Dr. Eric had the craziest obliques on the stage, no question about it. Dude had shark serrated shark gills on his abdominals
2 hours of time of these two top influencers all for free . Pure gold . ❤
Don't tarnish these two wonderful humans with the cheap "influencer" label.
@@xavierayayaell546 brother i feel influencer is a prestigious position these days as its like a king who can influence , have authority and shape the world . 🌎
If you think Geoffrey is a top influence and listening to him for 2 hrs is "Pure gold", then, deeplifefitness needs to get a life .
Damn NH will have to debate eric as well as milo wolf hahah
NH = Narcissistic Hypertrophy
@@fitnesse1288I think bodybuilders are usually narcissistic. So do I
NH will never debate he would get thrashed if he can’t cherry pick people’s arguments
@@beburshe did debate Milo Wolf, lol at this RF taintlicker (or are you RF himself)?
Nice
Hey! Lovin the videos. I had a question. So every time I take creatine, my hair sheds (genetics)& it grows back to normal when I quit for months. Can I still reach my complete natural muscle potential without it? I see my friends hop on it and “instantly” look ay fuller within a month and make faster gains and its disappointing at times that I’m at a disadvantage (unless I risk my hair LOL).
Dude don't worry about it. In 5 years it won't matter. Bodybuilding is about longevity. Leonidas also doesn't take creatine
Any plans on releasing the audio on spotify maybe ?
😂😂😂
Eric Helms!!
Disappoint that didn’t you ask Dr Helms about running his calf-stretching experiment on the neck flexors
The data is still being published in one of Eric’s students Phd thesis, so he can’t speak of it just now. He has mentioned on Steve Halls podcast (I think) that he didn’t see appreciable growth.
46:00 LMAOOOOO yooooo that IS the dream, hell yea just chuck an extra 2k into my diet and gain nearly exclusively 7 lbs of muscle in 7 weeks 😂
This is one tremendous surprise.
The clean shaven vs beard takes you from 27 to 35
Ohhhhh my God this is gonna be good one the two titans clashing together for 120 min definitely gonna save this one
1000th like 😤
The Hammurabi beard is dormant but not gone
45:58 Here Eric says that the guys having a surplus of a 2k cal weightgainer made mindboggling muscle/fat ratio gains (3 kg mostly muscle for 7 weeks). While Eric's guys, who had a much smaller surplus, gained more fat and less muscle.
THEREFORE, THE QUALITIES OF THE FOOD MATTER TOO!!!
The weightgainer, despite surely lacking high quality ingredients, is primarily made of easily digestible sugar, protein and fat. All macronutrients are very processed and enzymes are added. A ton of digestible nutrients increase metabolism and improve the hormonal state. That means less stress, deeper relaxation, less catabolism, better digestion, more energy. THIS IS THE KEY!!!
With this theory, it is not very perplexing that the weightgainer people achieved such good results. Definitely something to think about.
Can you dumb down the conclusion even further for me? So having a higher calorie intake through a bulk, even if the body can't utilize all of it for muscle growth. You still build more muscle by "brute forcing" the body to understand it has moooore than enough nutrients? I'm still a bit lost on this.
@@ouroboros6125 I added caps lock text to my first comment.
A ton of easy to digest nutrients improve metabolism and health. Better metabolism and health mean you can make productive use of more food (for tissue/organ repair, hormones, energy, etc). Being more anabolic is one of the effects. Provided the food is animal protein and fat, and lots of sugar (always better if "organic"). The weightgainer is exactly that, but has trash quality ingredients (less micronutrients, more pollutants, etc).
Animal food is better than plants for protein and fat, micronutrients, and digestion. It is much healthier, and therefore more anabolic. Also sugar (fruit, juice, honey) is more anabolic than starch (potato, rice, bread).
The only catch is that the healthier you are, the more you can benefit from eating a ton. If you're not very healthy, you can't use an enormous surplus properly and will be harmed by it. The skinny fat will become fatter and the swole will become swoler. So if the study wasn't on lifters, but wimps, the weightgainer wouldn't give them gains.
the collab we didnt know we need
Invite Paul Carter to the podcast, not many people have made podcasts with him.
Carter doesnt like him for some reason. Gvs says he blocked him without ever talking to him iirc
@@markbaker4425 Damn, I like Pauls content but its odd to block without reason.
He would get way more traction as well if he wanted but I guess he wants people to leave him alone.
I understand that he is tired of arguing with people as am I but we need more civil debates in the industry.
I certainly hope local CCP officials don't see this 1:23:54.
shhhhhhhhh
@@GVS I mean, oh geez, I blacked out for an hour. 🤷🏻♂
For the algorithm
In a few year's time, this will be viewed as a milestone within the youtube lifting community. The first official collab between GVS and Eric Helms. Awesome stuff guys!
No it won't 💀💀
Y'all mfs corny as hell
He never did answer my question about the study he did. You see, my understanding of bulking is that, in part, it fuels your training which means it allows you to do more and recover more. However, as far as I can tell, all the participants ran the same exact program -- they all did the same reps and sets. To me, this sounds like a classic example of wasting a bulk by not using the added calories to do more in the gym. Perhaps I am just misunderstanding.
some perspective on what Eric said...hes 6 foot and competing at 175..Steve Reeves the greatest bodybuilder of all time was 6 foot 1 and competing at 216!! and looked amazing! sure there wasnt an emphasis on single digit leanness back in that era but I feel this is what is wrong with bodybuilding today...especially natty bodybuilding...Ill bet Eric would look incredible at 190 on stage.
Seems your audio dropped out 30-40 minutes in? E.g. 42:30 you said something and Dr. Helms responded but you audio wasn’t in the recording for some reason
Eric could record his audio locally, I tried but failed on my end. So I had to edit/clean up the entire thing, there were a few parts where I had to just focus on one person talking because I couldn't cut in and out during those parts.
@@GVS thanks for all the work you put into editing!
Cool video, but you should put in the title or thumbnail that it's an interview. I thought it would just be a reaction video. Might be why it doesn't have more views
Added, thanks.
He said "gaintain", thats the correct term for a maintenance diet. I've never said "****gain" in my life.
Everyone said gaintain all the time until Coach Greg blew up; it makes much more sense though I think I'm fighting a losing battle to keep people saying it and that makes it a very good tracker of his influence. Oddly no one seems to have followed him in always calling TRT "HRT," even though obviously that has always been an equally acceptable, more general term.
@@salvadorromero9712 Yes, hes been saying "HRT" for years and its not catching on at all. Even Derek MPMDs doesn't say it and hes done collabs with Greg.
The issue with natural bodybuilding is the bodyfat percentage requirment is determental for natural bodybuilding , even eric helms with years of experience and an amazing physique when on stage , looks completly mediocre when with clothes.
Aside from there being no way to assure the people on the stage are natural , the issue is that current modern bodybuilding looks like a pale copy of enhanced bodybuilding.
Meal time!
WOOOOO
Note to self: bulk for biceps gains 💪
👍👍👍
Revival fitness called you a fake natty bro lmao
In which video
the one about powerbuilding, he implied it in the video but he called him out in the comments@@harshahirwar6147
@@harshahirwar6147In the comments of his video called "Debunking DUMB PowerBuilding Myths (Real Proof)" .
Anyone "bigger than me is a fake natty." Yeah, we get it.
Revival is just a bitter and angry person.
Not 100% related to the video, but i have a question that would mean the world if you or Dr Helms could answer. I've been training for 4 years now, and nos that i'm finishing my master's degree and have a stable job i've been thinking abou trying to go pro natty. The thing is: i'm a type one diabetic since 11 YO, my panceeas doesn't produce insulin and from what i know, you can't take any substance all. Am i in trouble? Like, any of you think that i won't be able to get into it because i take insulin, or if i do, i'll have an unfair advantage because of it? I'd like to do it fair, if i can.
I'd check the rules of whatever federation you plan on competing in. They're usually quite specific.
Set a goal to buy a new microphone for 2024. 🎉
Babyface GVS and deathmarch Helms!
I would love to see them run it back and use a higher volume approach.
Something like a push/pull/legs routine 2x a week taking every working set to failure.
I mean, I can tell you how that ends. Not well 😂
@@shades4313 nah, it’d be the opposite.
They’d gain significantly more muscle mass.
@@TypicallyUniqueOfficial every set to failure 6x a day with high volume? what?
True momentary muscle failure every set of every exercise? Like the bar has to be falling on pins for squat and bench every set? Or should they not do those?
@@TypicallyUniqueOfficial yea they would, but you’re missing the point. If you’re not a genetically durable individual, you’re going to get overuse injuries. I have had plenty of them due to that style of training (6x per week, every set to failure, heavy compounds every single day) so yea the gains are great, but so are the injuries. If you don’t deload, which I was an idiot and never did
HOOOOLY
how does one look at a 14day average of their bodyweight?
Weigh yourself every day at the same time of day, and then add the numbers and divide the total by 14.
My only takeaway - power building is an abomination
I wanna see NH s response. I dont think Helms quite attacked what NH means with powerbuilding is an abomination, but I d love to see a discution between the two. Probably not gonna happen.
I like nh but he is french. And therefore incapable of not being a smug cunt. Kinda why i like him though. The confidence is hilariously inspiring sometimes. Cause hes not usually wrong. Hes just expressing his opinion in the most french way possible.
NH will not allow it to happen because then he can’t cherry pick his arguments and say “ he agrees with me guyz “ lol
Normalize clarification
Thani u for the great content gentlemans, it is better than the latest marvel movie. Not a minute of this intervieuw was boring.
bring nunez next pls dood is so underated is criminal
Greg Doucette seething right now
This was a great listen while I shoveled a pound of bison in my mouth
You look much bigger than everyone on that stage, especially in the arms department and shoulder department. How come? Higher BF%?
I think higher BF + water
@@PauIdenino Even when he was very lean he still looked bigger but I don't have his numbers on hand so it could be lighting and what not.
I've read that runners have high test levels, maybe that could be it. If it's training method, all those guys should use his resources and see how much further they can go. Could be gear too but we'll assume GVS is telling the truth.
It just doesn't make sense that guys training for 20+ years are noticeably smaller at a similar height and similar BF% as a guy with 6-7 years experience, even if they spent 15 of those years mucking around and only the last 5 years taking it seriously/knew what they were doing. What are they doing wrong/what is he doing right?
It's almost laughable that a science based lifter wouldn't drop whatever they've learnt and straight up copy what GVS does.
@@Ace-zb5xr GVS would probably look smaller if he was standing next to those guys at the same level of leanness. I don't think GVS has ever been even near the leanness those guys are on stage. Also size isn't the only thing that matters, but how lean you can get and how your muscles are shaped to name a few.
@@PauIdeninogvs has been on a stage level leanness and made a video about it
Excuse me sah, this guy yo brotha?
Although I like a lot of what this dude is saying... "There is guys that pretend to be girls and women so that they can dominate the women's division of the sport..." You don't think people do that with "natural bodybuilding?" Or that people lie about it? Being a bigger fish in a smaller pond? Type ego? I mean it had to happen a lot.
Algorithm
"Illumi-Natty"
-Helms 2024
50:29 in regards to the "powerbuilding is an abomination" which seems to be jabs at each other. I believe Basement Bodybuilding has the best perspective on it since he has been cut from the same cloth as the rest of us when starting out. No offense to the "old guys" if you're reading this as a novice in the gym and somehow didnt end up with the influencers this applied but for regular joe in his teens and early twenties we have all fallen for the gymshark and youngLA type. Dont do powerbuilding in the sense "best of both worlds" Watch basement bodybuildings video. And stick to to the bodybuilding for muscle work. P.S not to throw a jab or anything but if i SELL a "powerbuilding program" why would i agree with someone who says it doesn't work. Just some food for thought. And yes Eric Helms does have a powerbuilding program he sells..
Eric Helms vs NH lol. Id love to see a debate between them.
Debate about what? NH is clueless - and painful to listen to
Who is NH? Natural Hypertrophy?
@@nolanmcnally2493Yea
@@fluffyscruffyAmen. What a clown.
@@fluffyscruffyyep but his fanboys will swear to you he is the messiah…for as much as he trashed on other fitness channels fanboys he sure grew a nice cult himself.he is intermediate and clueless like you said.
Man. NH really lives rent free in these dudes heads lol
Says the NH fanboy twink drone #9050,like Eric said NH doesn’t have much experience in training and coaching…he even looks high intermediate at best.
@@beburs love science based dorks who can't argue so they resort to ad homs. 🤡🤡🤡
@@beburs it's also rich coming from a helms fanboy calling other people small 😂
I love it too, these dweebs probably don’t know that helms took steroids in the past.
Is that really true? He does NOT look like it@@donrigo9206
Take a shot whenever they meme about powerbuilding being an abomination
Did you really need to do a study to find out that a bigger surplus would result in greater fat gain?
Is cool to see the magnitude of it, or how big of a surplus is where you start to spill over.
Why does geof just look confused 85% of the time lol
Just woke up
If Natural Hypertrophy got a cent each time Eric mentions his video on powerbuilding as an abomination he would be a millionaire...
Holy shit Eric Helms have a Security Clearance from the us airforce? I Wonder what He possible now about Ufo and the actual Thing about Reverse engineering non human technology the David grusch etc thing
Very interesting background story indeed ^^
most schizo comment I have seen all day
@@weakest_serb why schizo. The phenomen is real. The question is WHOs behind this.
Polygraph for drug testing 😂
What’s the joke?