Cut Through Confusion to Your Perfect Golf Swing! 🏌️♂️
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2022
- In today's video, we'll take a look at Athletic Motion Golf: the podcast where we discuss cutting through the confusion to a PERFECT Golf Swing!
Misinformation, bad advice, and "feelings" versus facts are all causes of confusion in golf instruction. Using 3D technology is the truth of the golf swing, and with proven data of millions of golf swings, it's not hard to determine what makes a great golf swing vs what creates more confusion in your golf swing.
The "Misinformation" rabbit hole in golf instruction is ruining golf swings and annihilating passion and enjoyment from golfers every single day. We take misinformation seriously and call it confrontational, but we simply will not stand for misinformation in a sport that has proven data and analytics.
Furthermore, YOU are the CEO of your own golf swing, and it's your job to decide what information and/or advice is sound and worth implementing versus damaging or not worth doing.
🚨 ADD MAJOR DISTANCE TO YOUR SWING FAST & FOR FREE 👇
Click Here: athleticmotiongolf.com/distance
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🚨 ADD MAJOR DISTANCE TO YOUR SWING FAST & FOR FREE! Click Here 👇
athleticmotiongolf.com/distance
You guys have been the most consistent from day 1 .. when I see other people’s videos I can’t even finish them because i know they’re teaching the wrong concepts. Appreciate y’all 👊🏻
We’re glad they’re helping 👊🤓
I have been to their golf school and their information is gold. They measured me just like they say. I went in March and worked on what they told me all summer. It takes time and effort but by the end of the season I was hitting it better than ever. Unfortunately, winter comes early in Vermont. But their videos are exactly what they teach and it works. Sean and Mike are the real deal. Take everything they say to the bank.
Thank you so much !!!!
Shaun’s story of going to a “top” instructor and their aversion to learning and growing hit home for me. It’s exactly what lead me into golf instruction (golf science). I went to so many $200-$400 an hour (in the nineties so these were the top guys) who I think actively made me worse with their theories in what should happen in the golf swing. So I went on a quest to learn what the best are really doing. Even today when someone asks me “what’s your swing theory” I always say I don’t teach theories I try to only teach facts with the best information available to me today. Why guess when you can measure. I brought in one of Arkansas’s first privately Owned (not by the big manufacturers) launch monitor in a Vector then Vector pro (now a couple Trackman 4’s and GC Quads) in the early 2000’s and can remember how instructors working with me that had been in the business thought I was “complicating” things and almost had distain for me across the community. I love where things are headed though, and appreciate you guys for just speaking the truth about how there is no MCAT or LSAT or ANY barrier to entry for golf instruction and golfers be wary! That said, I’ll admit when I first started I was teaching what I thought was right because it was what the top guys before me were telling me was right. Some of it was but a lot of it I cringe when I think about what I was telling people early on and would love to have some students and do over lessons back as I’m sure we all feel as our collective knowledge grows. On that note, who do you guys think is leading the way in marker-less motion capture? I’m looking at sport box ai and another but would love to hear what you guys think.
Been watching ya'lls videos for many years now. Both of you guys are genuine and it is evident that you truly enjoy working with tech that makes people better golfers. I would definitely like to have a lesson from you guys one day, at this point, it would be a dream come true. I've had some lessons in the past but nothing that I can say has been a game changer. Keep being authentic in an inauthentic world, it's all that matters. Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas, Murray! Thank you for the kind words. If you’re ever in the Orlando area let us know 😉
Thank you so much for this discussion. I've been playing golf for nearly 60 years and I've become a worse player going from a 9 handicap using my athletic instincts to a 16 handicap through decades of confusion mostly created by so many different swing thoughts that came from supposedly expert instruction. The biggest problem for me has been that sometimes I'd find something that really works well with one particular swing thought resulting in breaking 80. The next though that same swing thought is not working and I will shoot something in the 90's. Soooo frustrating. The good news is a new practice facility has opened nearby that has access to track man. The leads to the question of how best to use trackman to improve.
this has been the best channel to understand the swing and what i've been doing correctly or incorrectly. can't beat the math and the point of a regular camera fooling you is huge.
Man this video hit home!!
Love the channel and your advice, especially the gears stuff. Golf instruction is a problem of objective rather than method. Every student gets to "adjust" his swing to approach the "improved" result. Thus, every objective is different for every student. If the objective were to be a standard (ie most efficient and easy to reproduce) swing, then all students would be instructed to do the same movements. When only one goal is in sight, it is easier to achieve.
How you guys teach is next level hands down. ✋️ Thank you.
I’m a high handicaper and a late starter to golf at 57 now 61yrs, and I feel I have wasted so much time, to find AMG has been the eye opener it’s only the best information out there, no one explains it better or more simple, it’s their in 3D for you to see , you work on it, you improve, thanks guys , love the wall drill from your last post, so far the drywall or plaster board reminds intact
Lol I’m sure the Mrs appreciates that! We’re glad the videos are helping. If there’s anything specific we can make for you just let us know👊
Great video guys. Really resonated with me where I hear golf commentary on TV saying there are so many different swings and I think.. not really, just a few minor differences to create an almost identical dynamic impact position. My best ever lesson was actually a club fitting where they used trackman. I was 13 degrees in to out with driver! That fact alone enabled me to vastly improve off the tee just working on it myself, knowing my feel was wrong. The challenge of improvement is how to achieve what we now know are the correct dynamic movements. It's thanks to you that we know what they are.. still a challenge to replicate them and know you're doing it right. That said.. I think the obsession with improvement is what makes this wonderful game so addictive.
Great post. No question we golfers will go through the ringer chasing the beauty of that well-struck shot flying at the target 😍
You two are the best in the industry for offering help to golfers!!
I think sometimes people forget we are golfers too. "What would we have wanted to know when our only focus was playing" is what drives everything we do lol. We're just thankful there's other golfers like yourself interested in that too🙏
The first of your videos that I watched was several years ago and what attracted me to it was precisely that you were the only one (that I knew of) posting videos in which you measured what was going on in the swing. You can't beat the data!
Thank you!
i agree, listening to too many different sources is clusterf***, i listen to you guys because my coach pointed me in your direction. he did that because you guys follow the same technical model im learning so the message is consistent.
You guys and TXG are the best in the biz. You guys for swing analysis and them for club and ball analysis
Ian and the crew run a class operation, thanks for the kind words🙏🏻👊
From a high handicapper who has roamed the UA-cam jungle of swing advice that turned my brain to mush, I agree. I spent a couple years changing my entire swing what felt like every month in search of improvement. I did learn a few things along the way, but I couldn't put it all together into consistent better ball striking. I've now turned to science to solve this problem. Physics, momentum, rhythm movement, biomechanics. It's great stuff that does cut through the confusion but some if it can be very technical nature. The people who can boil the golf science down into easy-to-understand concepts win in my opinion.
Great insight 👏
Are there any other instructors on youtube that you would recommend? You guys are really the only guys I trust, but I'm always looking to soak in more information and I just don't like the way most internet teachers explain things. This is by far the best golf channel I have found but are there any other channels/instructors that you respect and/or recommend?
The golf swing is a biomechanical action. You Guys are the only ones who measure that to help me swing better. As a doctor who plays golf (or a golfer who plays doctor) I think your comparison to medicine is spot on. I have been following you guys for a year and listen/read about the golf swing from others but keep coming back to you guys because you have real data to support what you say and have great drills to reinforce it. Thank you!
Thanks for taking the time to comment, and we're glad you didn't find the comparison offensive 😊
Awesome gentlemen🙏 I have had good and bad instruction over the years. I can point to many injuries because I was trying to model things not built for my body (heard of theSwing Jacket).
You guys were the first ones to talk about proper lead arm depth on backswing and it was golf game changing!
Glad to hear it 👊🤓. And yes, I had one of those straight (swing) jackets 😖
@@AthleticMotionGolf Got a C-2 spine strain on that that still needs occasional Chrio😳
@@kevinshoemaker5466 noooo😖
Shaun Webb: “We always reserve the right to get smarter at this.”
I love that Shaun and Mike never claim to have all the answers, admit when they didn’t have it quite right and constantly give shout outs to others like Scott Hamilton.
Short story. Decades ago I went to a Jim Flick PGA seminar. During the Q and A, one of the attendees (obviously an older gentleman), stated that he had taken lesson from the great Ernest Jones. Mr. Flick immediately switched from instructor to student as he inquired what Ernest Jones had taught him. The humility of Mr. Flick absolutely shocked me.
Here is the instructor to Jack Nicklaus, Tom Lehman and many other professionals at that time still eagerly trying to learn. The truly great ones never stop learning and never think they have all the answers.
That’s why I follow you two. You’ve taken me on quite a journey. God bless and Happy New Year.
Thank you for the kind words, Ken, and what a cool story. Mr Flick was one of the legends of our profession. It's never a good sign when teachers stop being hungry students. No player will ever master the swing, and no teacher will ever know everything about it. So the pursuit to improvement has to be where the love is. Thank you for posting that. We really appreciate it!
Hi Guys.Your technic instruction with 3D is more efficient than any other instruction.Continue your excellent work
Thanks 🙏🏻 and that’s the plan👊🤓
Chasing tail? Talk about changing the subject.
Lol
But seriously, I’ve been watching your videos for a while now and I can say as an accomplished golfer that you guys are one of the best on the tube for clarity, honesty, and just a couple of good guys doing a good job. Keep it up.
Appreciate you, but hanks for the kind words🙏🏻💯
I owned a golf range for 5 years. I hired golf teaching professionals. In that time I found the lack of communication between the pupil and professional was the main of the failure of the pupil to improve. I add you guys and your videos with your technology are the best available. Keep up the good work.
Great point! My pops has told me for as long as I can remember that communication can just about be found anywhere there's failure.
@@AthleticMotionGolf wise pop
Fair comment.
Love the content you guys are creating. As a science driven person, I'm so unbelievable happy I found your channel in my goal to fix my swing (also heavy in to out of about 10°). Filming, using an R10 and all your videos have gotten me quite a bit on the way but the final piece came with the @dewizgolf watch which could give me some of those data points you refer to. And now I'm at ~1° in to out grinding to get that in to muscle memory going slow. Wish I had access to a place like yours, but you make do with what you have. What are your thoughts on the DeWiz by the way, have you had the chance to check it out and compare to what gears measure?
Again, huge thanks for all your content and damn am I close to signing up for some virtual lessons with you guys, just need the season to get a little closer (6 more months until the courses opens up here in northern Sweden, hehe).
Love it! We haven’t yet tried the Dewiz but the big PGA merchandise show is next month so we be looking to check it out there.
Very good observations. Data is important. The technology you have has greatly advanced the science of golf instruction. You are also making strides in the final piece of the puzzle, that is how to communicate this information to golfers is ways they can understand and use. Thanks.
That last bit is so important. Well said 👊
You guys are 100percent right because you have the equipment to measure everything you teach-- 3d with 1000’s of pga tour players doing basically the same things is proof-- I’ve learned alot from your videos-- thanks 😊
When so many great player do the same things over and over again, even our brains start to understand what’s happening 😆
@@AthleticMotionGolf 😄👍👍👍👍
Would you please compare the “Stack and Tilt” vs conventional weight shift swing? Golftec measures the S&T too.
Superb! This is the kind of information that everyone should hear but would be particularly beneficial to novice golfers because there are so many conflicting voices speaking on golf with a so-called 'expert' opinion. It's little wonder that some, like the person on your introduction, get confused to the point of anger. I gave up on golf lessons because it was filled with instructors who prefaced their advice with "I think..." Why I subscribed to AMG is because you preface your advice with "We know..." As you alluded to in this piece, the great debate on Face V Path was finally and conclusively settled with the introduction of technology and therefore every credible instruction should now be starting from the point of, what we know to be true not form, what I think may be the case. The same is true of any logical construction on any subject.
Personally, other than yourselves, I listen to very few golf instructors here, other than to get a different angle on something I may be confused about or have a problem with. Keep up the good work.
Merry Christmas.
So we’ll said👏. The better info we can start with, the bigger head start we give ourselves to improve.
Believe you me, I’ve seen a lot of golf videos out there and you guys ( amg ) are the best there is.
Wow thank you! Where do we send the check 🤓🙏🏻
I love what you guys do…you’ve helped me narrow the field of where I get swing tips…that said, Most, if not all, of your videos that I’ve watched over the years are geared towards comparing a pro swing to a top Am (1-5 HCP) and how to swing like them…there are many of us out here who don’t have the body to be able to do that…for me, I’ve had both hips replaced, degenerative back disease, shoulder surgery…I can’t get into some of those positions that pros and low hcp ams get into…would be nice to see you guys do reviews of players with disabilities/limitations as that sector of player grows (e.g., Wounded Warriors comes to mind as a military guy)…Keep it up and enjoy the holidays!
Merry Christmas, Pete! Thanks for taking the time to comment. We use a ton of pro data as the basis for our videos. We do that because as a group, those players swing it the best AND have dramatically simpler swings when compared to ams. All of our videos highlight the things those players do that the rest of us can do. It would be the worst instruction model of all time to ask players to do things only the pros can do, lol. Shaun has herniated disks and I've got 6 screws in my back, so from that stand point, we're in the same boat as MANY ams. To provide context, could you tell me something specific you've seen in one of our videos where we've recommended doing something that you physically can't do?
@@AthleticMotionGolf Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you guys too! I will see if I can go through some of the old vidz to see if I can come up with any of the issues I’ve raised…I should have done that to begin with, otherwise it’s just complaining! Love the stuff you guys do and keep it up…I absorb about 1% each time I watch a vid, so I watch them over and over.
@@petegalindez9961 It's helps us make better videos 🙏
Great segment, smart and thoughtful
Thanks for watching!
Hi guys love your content may I ask a couple of questions? I have been playing now for over 30 years and in the past the lowest handicap I got to was a 5. Since then iv got older fatter uglier and less supply as we all do. I too go on UA-cam to my detriment and get a lot of conflicting info. I have tried 3 methods in the past The A swing by Leadbetter for two years, stack and tilt for around a year and lastly the right sided swing advocated by Gary Edwin who has had pro players use this method ie Peter Lonard and Peter senior and another pro I forget his name. Please can you give me your thoughts on these three methods. Another question is what starts the swing the arms , the core , or a combination of both.?Does the pivot create the depth and the arms creat the up and down motion? I live in New Zealand and as far as I know I don’t know if any instructors that have gears. Most have trackman though. The previous instructor didn’t have trackman but hackmotion .
I believe the important point is feel vs. physical reality, of which, on the one hand, the latter can be quantitatively measured, and the former, on the other hand, may produce different kinds of outcomes for different players. There's a video on UA-cam where Collin Morikawa and Tiger Woods discuss that comparing their "swing feels" would be pointless, because the feel may be totally different from what they're actually doing, and the same physical move may also feel different from one player to another.
That’s exactly why we don’t teach feels. The proper movement should create the feel, and as you said, that can vary greatly.
If there's one site that doesn't confuse it's this one! Unlike the others, who are mostly fishing for cheap clicks, you give us straight facts and the tools to self diagnose, and not just the usual tip-of-the-day that may or may not apply to a particular golfer.. In fact, I even started unsubscribing from the millions of youtuber I use to watch to filter out the noise! That's the reason I bought myself a radar, so I can measure and practice with actual facts. "otherwise, you're just exercising!" (TM). ;) Keep up the excellent work guys.
That’s for the kind words 🙏🏻👊. Who wants to just be exercising? 😜
I think even with all the tech and GEARS and everything you can measure how much a body part is moving and what sequence or timing of all the movements but you still cannot tell if that is because the golfer is firing certain muscles and how hard he is firing those muscles vs how much his body is moving or being moved by the momentum of the club swinging thru. So as they say when the club is releasing it is moving faster than your wrist muscles can help it even though it looks like they are doing something. Or even with "ground force" pressure how much is a conscious effort to push off the ground vs how much just happens because your body is just naturally compensating for the forces of the club swinging so you don't lose your balance and fall.
This is exactly why the right concepts are important. Much of what you mentioned you’ll get for “free” when working from a good concept. We’d be happy to make a video if there’s a specific issue you’re having 👍
I personally think this really encapsulates exactly what I discovered through working with various “top” instructors myself. The individual isn’t necessarily wrong, they’re all teaching you what has worked for THEM, or a player of there’s that has been successful using that method/idea.
You could see/talk to 100 instructors and get 100 different swing thoughts/keys. The only way to find a repeatable motion is to use these devices available to us now and find out how your body moves, thus allowing you to efficiently deliver the club properly. This is an individual game and every body is unique, every athletic motion will also be unique to that individual
Absolutely! Get measured and get a plan 👍🏻
Watched you guys for years. Love the channel. I actually was a subscriber to Sean’s channel back in the day. My thoughts are golf is hard. The difference between a good shot and a poor shot might only be a few degrees. Our bodies really aren’t designed to repeat anything at such high tolerances. Golf starts to come down to the little things. Little things can be hard to manage. We can only keep one or maybe two little things in our head at a time. I think that’s why tips are so popular. We’re looking for that magic bullet. But I think that what gets us ams in trouble.
I hope everyone takes the time to read your post. FOMO and the “magic bullet” derail more golfers than anything. Great post 👏
Once you learn the secret to the golf swing- it only lasts for a day.
I think Jonnie Miller said that.
@@allensnyder2081 he called it WODO. Works one day only 😂
I’d LOVE to have a coach that has gears but even though I live in a fairly large metro OKC the closet location is 4 HOURS AWAY in Dallas that I’ve been able to find the closest thing I could find was GOLFTEC and an indoor trackman facility
I've always trusted AMG for correct and accurate golf instruction because they have the data to back up what they are saying. It also helps to know that actual tour pros go to them for advice as well.
👍🏻👍🏻🏌️♂️. Thank you!
I'm curious, talking about 3D, I believe is the only really efficient method like you say. I curious why you haven't mentioned or advocated Sportsbox 3D.
Gentlemen, I was listening to your podcast about why a golfer may not be improving even though they are practicing many many hours. I really am thinking about joining your AMG+ site. The thing that worries me is without getting a 3D analysis of the swing can you really tell what is going on in the swing by just a down the line view and a face on view? Or are we just guessing? I do love your teaching and instruction you provide on youtube and instagram.
Weve looked at so many swings in 3D that our "eye" for the swing is very good with video. I believe Thats why were having success with online teaching
Hi Mike and Shaun. I recently passed 77, and after 2 years of hardly touching a club, because of the plague, I'm trying to get back to somewhere near where I was. My problem is that I'm trying to swing the club as I did 20 years ago. I recently treated to myself to new irons, and I'm seeing both sides of the course, whereas I only ever saw the left side previously. My question is how long does it take to get used to new equipment, I'm using the range 2/3 times a week, the clubs have been fitted (STEALTH). Is there a video I should be looking at.
Taking this opportunity to wish you a happy Christmas, and a good and prosperous New Year. Thank You!
Merry Christmas! There are a number of variables that can have an influence of this. How would you describe your swing prior? Do you regularly record your swings when you practice?
Could you do a video or podcast on what trackman/flightscope etc. numbers mean relative to each other, and which goalposts players should be trying to stay within. In the above video, Shaun mentions good golf is most often played with an in to out swing between 3 and 6. To me that suggests a FTP range between 1.5 and 3 (assuming 1/2 path is appropriate). What about ball speed, club speed, smash factor, etc.? Which radar numbers or number ranges should a player without access to measuring tech other than video and a radar focus on?
Good idea👍
Try trackman university, it’s free and explains all of that
Shaun... Some months I would get 4 golf magazines.... when I could get ahold of a UK mag.
I finally trimmed my 106 book collection when my wife suggested there may be an issue. 😉
Apparently it's genetic. Way back when my Grandfather died, I found a 3 ring binder, with each of the 5 ORIGINAL HOGAN SECRET articles from Sports Illustrated.
I really hope the frustrated commenter quoted at the beginning your video finds success and improvement and joy from this great game, however he finds it.
I will agree with your comment that you haven't ever said release lag with body.
But I feel his frustration.
It's a hard hard game. It's a great great game.
As I've said in other comments... NOTHING has ever helped my golf game as much, as fast, or as sensibly as the AMG UA-cam channel.
Doesn't mean that will be true for others .. but that's my experience.
Thx as always guys.
R
Wow 4 mags, that’s a super sized desire to improve right there 😊. A man after our own hearts lol. Thanks for posting those comments, I hope anyone the hamster wheel of tips takes the time to read.
@@AthleticMotionGolf 🙂
It's all about impact! Lol! We have been taught as amateurs to "work on our swing" and all the other "positions" that are involved. This year I started to actually improve when I realized that how I got to impact was step one for me. My swing was okay, but if I couldn't get the club to the ball in the proper impact position, it didn't matter what my swing looked like! Just my two cents. I do love your channel and videos though!
Impact is the net result of everything you do prior to impact, it’s not a separate event 👊😉
@@AthleticMotionGolf Oh for sure! But if you can't hit the ball from a good impact position set up, your swing may not be the culprit. Just my experience recently. I think we focus too much on positions that are a snapshot of the swing captured in video! Like you said, everything is a net result of the swing.....but you gotta find the back of the ball first! Lol!
Boy do I agree! I have to discipline myself or else i would chase a new rabbit every day. Its very hard for me to ignore the myriad of UA-cam piecemeal approaches.
BEST thing i ever did was change my Iron backswing based on your data. God did a plethora of well intentioned teachers have me in big trouble ! I could discuss this for hours but i wasted years
Used to be 6 or 7 in to out also. No more.
Thanks for understanding our point in the podcast 👊🤓. There’s no shortage of good intentions or bad swings.
Gotta keep it fun, right? Golf Tips magazine was my favorite twenty or more years ago, Golf Digest, nooo, Golf Magazine screwed me all up with their X factor stuff when I really first got into golf, in 1996. Golf Illustrated somehow came to my mailbox even though I didn't subscribe to it and then of course Golf weekly, which I liked for all the equipment news, yeah I'm a bit of club nut,, oh yeah I joined the PGA Partners club and of course Another magazine in the mailbox!!
You guys are offering great information for free and it is my responsibility to interpret it correctly and then practice practice practice. So far so good!
Wow those are some names I haven’t heard in a long time. Oh yeah, can’t forget about the “p” word 👊🤓
What do you suggest for younger golfers keen to learn? I'm not aware of anyone that has your technology where I live.
Really depends on how young, but there is never a wrong age to learn how to hold the club properly, have a great setup, and a killer short game. None of those are age and strength dependent. But the most important one, make sure they have fun!
I've been guilty of paralysis by analysts. I started finding UA-cam videos that made sense to me that have improved my game. For Eg, your play a draw with the driver. I don't look at any other videos now. I've found good info that works & I stick with it.
Smart man right here folks 👏
I absolutely love the content. I do have one question though. When yall mention that the avatars from videos are tour players, do you guys not mention who that tour player is due to privacy? Thanks.
That’s one of a couple reasons.
Watching you guys has actually convinced me not to waste my time and money on lessons with the local PGA pro that I had used before. Nice fella, but never used anything other than video - just going through the motions with his lessons and I realized he really didn't care. Thank you for what you do for us non-athletic hackers trying to do what comes naturally to the elite.
Question: has anything you've both learnt contradicted the writings of Harvey Penick? I suspect not.
Nothing comes to mind off the top of my head. He’s a true legend for good reason.
@@AthleticMotionGolf That's reassuring. Have you done much motion capture on short-game swings? I don't remember seeing any. Thanks again.
@@matthewstroud4294 we have. Most of it is in our Short Game System but we do plan on releasing more here on YT.
@@AthleticMotionGolf OK thanks. I have integrated a lot of Pelz's short game advice, like "dead hands" and the "clock" idea, just interested to know what you have tested, because short-game seems to be quite a lot more personal compared to the full swing.
I have a question…did the old guys(hogan,Snead) have different measurements than the n guys today…they swung heavier flatter lie angles etc
There’s no way of knowing. It would’ve been so cool to have these tools around when they were on their primes.
Couldn't agree more. When all is said and done, you , the golfer, are responsible for your own swing and improvement. There are literally 1,000s of golf teachers on UA-cam, and as you said, some are very good, but most are down right awful. Choose who you follow and allow to teach you very wisely. It's similar to choosing a club fitter, most are crappy and only interested in making a sale. A few, are truly interested in getting the best clubs for you. To find them, you have to look long and hard, because they are so scarce. Same thing with golf instruction. So, be careful.
Great analogy with club fitting. When you’ve had a good one, the difference is night and day. We’ll said 👊
Love the analogy of the doctor. In golf instruction, just like medical practice, the student/patient has a responsibility to be their own advocate which starts with questioning someone not using good data based on the latest technology.
This! You said it better than we did 👊🤓
I totally agree with you guys in most respects and have had similar experiences and grievances with traditional golf instruction. However, you need to acknowledge that these tools that you use aren't measuring everything yet. For example, where does the weight go in the various sections of the feet throughout the swing and not merely from one foot to the other and the same thing is true with the hands. Which parts of the hands are receiving the pressure at which points during a swing. The golf swing is so nuanced that these things do matter in my opinion and the swing is literally the sum of every single move that is made, in it's most elaborate detail, on the way to striking the ball.
Also, in light of what Shawn said about 10 degrees in to out, it might be interesting to consider the case of Marcus Edblad, a youtube instructor (the long driver record holder of Sweden at 470 yrds. or so) whose bread and butter is to try and deliver the club 10 degrees or so I-O on almost every shot and who is a very good ball striker in general. Clearly someone can do a well above average job with ball striking using a very I--O golf swing. I am not advocating such a swing but merely trying to acknowledge it's existence and "keep it real".
My take would therefore be, that you shouldn't get ahead of yourselves because you have a lot of great information but also don't know everything yet. Thus you should remain positive about what you know but humble about what you don't and continue doing the exemplary work that you are doing in uncovering the truth about the swing. IMO there is nowhere to go but up if you continue to "tell it like it is" and don't get ahead of yourselves and golf will be better for iit. Much appreciation for your honesty and all the best for the holidays and the New Year. Cheers.
We absolutely don’t know everything. But we do have $30,000 forceplates that measure every part of the weight shift 👍🏻. Also 10 degrees in to out is not functional. Maybe for long drive but that’s a different discussion
Thanks for the great comment by the way. We love the discussion
@@AthleticMotionGolf Well, in light of what I mean about the weight shift if you can tell me that by "every part of the weight shift" you mean that these plates can measure exactly where in the foot the pressure is on each foot throughout the entire weight shift sequence, then I will concur that they fully measure that shift. That however is not my impression of what they are able to measure. I'd be glad to be told that I'm wrong but as I currently understand it, I'm not.
Some might not feel that such data needs to be measured to have a full understanding of the swing. However, my personal feeling is that rotation and weight shift integrate so tightly that this does matter. Nonetheless, I would certainly concede that a lot is already learned by just accurately knowing where the weight is at each phase in the swing and that is enough to get one well on the way to a sound basis for a good swing, yet IMO still not the full picture.
Also, if you think 10 degrees I-O can't work, search for "Marcus Edblad Set up for a push draw" and go to 2:30 in the video and you'll see him hit an 8-iron about 190 yrds. (he can max it out at about 210) swinging 11 degrees from the inside and he is 50 years old. He plays everything back in his stance and according to him tries to maximize the in to out feeling. He also is generally pretty straight (controlled draw) especially with a smooth swing. It's interesting from a golf swing theory perspective to watch. Cheers.
@@timothypollock8358 yes force plates have been able to do that for a while. The ones we use are sensitive enough to detect heart beat. When we talk about functional, we talking about playing for score. I’m sure loads of people have large path numbers, but we haven’t seen any playing at the top level.
10:27 that is a huge issue in alot of sports
You guys should check out jim venetos swing. I learned from him and we look alot different then most but produce a really good golf shots well most of the time for me atleast Jim is something else for sure extremely good player/coach I would love to see his swing on gears you guys should reach out and talk him into getting on it so you can measure his swing I've been playing golf about a year and a half and I shoot in the 80s most the time I'm a old man too didn't start golfing until 32
I wanted to be the first comment. I did see that post and going back six years ago or more that was definitely a valid statement. Now, not so much. I was late to the game with you guys and for that shame on me. I was chasing shadows for decades. Not anymore. I will not listen to teachers who are not at the very least taking concepts that have been proven by guys like you. My next step will be to get analyzed with 3d motion analysis. Great info here.
Shit, I wasn’t the first to comment!
I totally agree with your honesty, describing the power of 3D. I find most of my peers don't think it is worth using. Sad!
See where the ball goes, thats your feedback, this is rubbish
What we DONT let in is just as important as what we do. Awesome post 👏
@@sausagembape677 more holes in that logic than a submarine with a screen door 🤦♂️
Bunker shot were taught by open blade then grip and open stance and swing along the foot line, but nowadays bunker shot are taught with square set up either with open club face and square club face for better accuracy. There is no one style for all, just look at different swing style of pro golfers which works for them and one should find their own swing and enjoy it.
Styles come and go. A swing style is just the look, but how the player actually moves, how the club actually moves does not vary much. Seeing past the style is what is important. There are very few ways to move the club properly and consistently. Knowing the variables that produce that is what’s important, not the style 😊
The idea is to find a coach and stick with him or them. There are different styles of coaching and different ways to swing the club. Even Tiger Woods and many other pro golfers changed coaches because what they was being taught wasn't working for them. There is the old swing that is still being taught, there is the new swing. you might be 5'6" tall and weight 200lbs witch may require to swing the club one way or 6'6" and 180 lbs. which may require you to swing the club another. My first lesson years ago was with a company that showed me a PGA pro that had my same body style as me on the monitor and said we believe this is the swing that will work for you.
I would really like to see a gears capture of a couple of you tuber's swings, firstly Shawn Clements as his swing method teachings must be hitting some key positions, and Christo Garcia who as a amateur his swing looks good.
They would have to go to a facility that has gears to get captured.
Watched you guys from the start and you’ve never said the body releases the hand, ever. In fact quite the opposite, the hand speed video is a good example of that. I trust what you say because you back it up with GEARS, forceplates using data obtained from professional pga tour winner swings. You boys are presenting just the facts 😊
😄 thank you
what do you think about some of the ideas of mike adams... he also believes in measurement of the golfer to decide what swing will work the best for a particular golfer... he measures wingspan to height ratio... equal wingspan to height ratio will get the top of the backswing left arm to be at the shoulder plane... higher wingspan to height ratio will get the top of the backswing above the shoulder plane....lower wingspan to height ratio will get the top of the backswing below the shoulder plane... he will measure knuckle to elbow (forearm) length compared to elbow to shoulder (humerus) length... equal forearm to humerus length will get downswing similar to the backswing plane, higher forearm to humerus ratio will get downswing above the backswing plane, lower forearm to humerus ratio will get downswing below the backswing plane, he has ways to determine if you are a front post golfer, a centered golfer, or a rear post golfer... he has ways to see if you have an "on top" right hand grip, a side cover right hand grip, a side on right hand grip, a side under right hand grip, or an under right hand grip... he also uses some swing catalyst and some pressure mat readings... other golfers like terry rowles and e.a. tischler (eagolfpro on youtube) know mike adams.... i guess the main point is that he is attempting to measure golfers and match the instruction to their personal measurements.... what do you think about mike adams approach ?
We’ve not seen those static measurements correlate to those swing movements.
@@AthleticMotionGolf thanks... i appreciate your opinion.... steven vig
Although I love your technical "solid data" approach, I feel you are in the beginning of your trip.
You can tell us WHAT pro players do that differentiates them from amateurs, but you don't tell us HOW they are doing it and WHY they are doing it.
You show us what happens with bone structures, joints, and rotation, but this is a passive part of our body.
I really would like you to tell me which part of the muscles should be activated in each move, push here, pull there, and how it should affect the club movement.
I love your "shoulder rotation and arm depth" video. I do have a medical background, and I know "a bit" about anatomy and esp. neurophysiology. I can relate to this old idea of firing hips - it actually does make sense. As far as I learned it is outdated... And I think, frankly speaking, it was replaced by ... muscles. Hand release - you just need arms like Rory or Tiger.
I think we have less than a dozen Pros vs Ams videos on the channel (the “what” videos you referenced). The other few hundred videos are “how” and “why” videos lol. We’ve been at this for more than 30 yrs. Don’t know where that puts us on the career arc, but I gotta think it’s well past the beginning stage 😊
I’m glad I came across your channel, far too many rabbit holes that you could go down weekly. Are you able to say what other instructors are putting out quality objective information like yourselves?
Hmm. There's a few good teachers out there.
As an “older” instructor, I have learned to measure, measure, measure. Anecdotally, I just measured a top collegiate golfer who tries to have his fastest hand speed at impact. Of course, like all elite golfers, his top hand speed is much earlier. It is “feel versus real”and it works for him. Conversely, I have a beginner with her fastest hand speed after impact. Now I know where to go with her to improve her swing. This would not be possible without measurements. It’s impossible to see on video. Thanks for all you two do. Happy holidays!
Thanks for sharing that, Ken. Our hats are off to anyone who been doing this for awhile and is still interested enough to keep investing in the tools to help their players. Thank you for doing that! You gave two great examples why it’s important and how it helps 👊🤓
I think the concept of “releasing the club” is in itself confusing (as it relates to achieving a consistent golf swing), and I don’t like using that phrase. I prefer the terminology of “squaring the club face.” From my perspective, that is the most important aspect of playing good golf … consistently squaring the club face to the ball. There are two ways to square the club face to the ball: (1). On one extreme, the use of only arms (forearm rotation) and hands. (2). On the other extreme, the use of only body rotation to square the club face to the ball. For example, I can address the ball and hit little shots by using only my arms and hands (with zero body rotation), AND I can also stand at the ball and hit little shots with only body rotation (with zero use of arms and hands, like hitting little chip shots). Obviously, a full golf swing is a BLENDING of BOTH body rotation AND the use of arms and hands to square the club face to the ball. Of that, there is no doubt. Putting these on opposite ends of a continuum, the CLOSER you can get to squaring the club face through the use of body rotation, the more consistent you will hit golf shots, day in and day out, because TIMING becomes less of an element in doing so. Obviously, the more you can take timing OUT of the swing, the more consistent one can be as a golfer. I tell the guys I work with that if you can achieve a marriage of 70% body rotation to 30% forearm rotation, that is ideal! That is the goal! A golfer can tell if he is flipping the face too much through impact. The challenge of the instructor is to teach HOW to better use body rotation so there will be less reliance on forearms and hands to square the face. As you guys like to say, we all have the impact position we HAVE TO HAVE in order to hit the ball. Now, I think you guys are the BEST in the business, and your instructional videos are pure gold because they are data driven. No doubt, far and away the best. 👊👊. However, not every instructor has access to gears, force plates, or Trackman, for that matter. Not every golfer can afford an instructor who does. All that is available for many instructors is their IPhone or IPad camera. With that, you can still clearly see how the club face is acting through the impact zone. You can see if there is excessive face rotation or not. You can see if the face is shutting down right after impact or not. You can see if the face is staying relatively square to the swing arc or not. Thoughts on my post? Anyway, I really enjoyed your discussion and I always look forward to your video releases. Like I said, they are the best! I hope the both of you have a happy holiday season! 🎄👊👊
Merry Christmas back at you👊. Very good post. You’re right, not everyone will have or can have access to a bunch of tech, but they can have access to the concepts based from good use of all that tech. Starting there is maybe the most important part of all this.
You guys bring the “in God we trust, all others bring data” philosophy to golf…thank you. I feel sorry for anyone not listening to you…except for the guys I play against!
🤫they might be listening 😂
Went to an instructor for a while that would tell me to lift my hands up high bow my wrist and rotate. Finally ended up getting frustrated and telling me to just "be more athletic". Last time I went to him lol
How can anyone argue with GEARS? You guys always have great content. Where can I grab one of those hats?
Thanks brother🙏🏻. Our hats can be gotten here shop.athleticmotiongolf.com
I think his problem is he's thinking of an individual movement and it's very difficult to learn a golf swing like that generally people who try to hit specific locations have no fluidity (except pros) very mechanical and for me way overthinking it. I hope he gets the info he needs and hope his and everyone's game is getting better and remember you could be at work so have fun
👊😊 the great reminder, well said!
Appreciate you guys. Q: why and how to cure fat shots
Make sure you’re on your lead side early enough in the downswing 👍
The comment you responded to is just noise and, based on all the videos I’ve watched from you gentlemen, is also patently false. You’ve consistently stated you need to use the body to put yourself into a position where you can simply release the club-with the hands. I came back to golf this last season after a 3 year hiatus. Expectedly, I played like trash…until I gave your guys’ videos a go. It turns out 3 years off was enough time to forget all my bad habits and an opportunity to start anew utilizing your instruction. Thank goodness I did because I’m now shooting in the low 80s with the goal of breaking 80-for the 1st time-next season. Thank you for your content; it’s been a game-changer for me.
Wow that’s awesome and not easy to do. Be proud of that work! 👏
I think ALLOT of it is the imprecise use of language it’s physically impossible to release the club with the body but to get out of flipping coaches say to release with body to delay the release which should just naturally happen
Definitely doesn’t help. Good point.
The hardest thing to learn and execute consistently is a properly timed sequence.
The amount of things that should be in done in the backswing is key for that. When we see poor sequences, it doing enough in the backswing (trying to do too much in the downswing) is the #1 cause 👍
Are you saying that online lessons are not good? If so, I would tend to agree…just wish I lived in a place where someone had some of the newest technology.
No, not saying that at all.
@@AthleticMotionGolf but if the camera angles aren’t perfect, then how can the instructor really see what’s going on? Also, I don’t have access to the technology you speak of, so an online instructor wouldn’t be able to measure any portions/aspects of my swing.
I’m really struggling with my swing right now, to the point where I’m really close to hanging it up, which is really frustrating because the last 2 years have been some of the best golf I’ve ever played in nearly 20 years of playing.
@@michaelparsons541 well we teach our people to use good camera angles. It’s lot that hard
@@AthleticMotionGolf thank you for your response…I just had a quick range session and worked on the re-centering and was hitting it the best I have since October. Unfortunately, some back issues have been flaring up and stopped me from being out there longer.
The limitation, even with the best technical teachers, will always be with the student. In other words, putting into practice objective data relative to the golf swing is a can of corn for the proficient teacher. But always and forever a much more difficult task for the student to apply. There is a thing called natural ability. It applies to musicians, and it applies to athletes also. Good teachers understand this. And the best teachers know how to navigate with the middling students. And they never sell them pie in the sky. No Norman Vincent Peale nonsense.
Great point, and where the real “art” of teaching comes into play.
While it is true that you are presenting the raw data it is also true that the data has to be interpreted and as such subject to subjective analysis. A pro swings exactly this way but what gets him/her there.
That has more to do with the skill of teaching than the data. Meaning a unique feel to get you in the right range of a parameter is good for you, but might be a disastrous feel for someone else. We starting with the parameter as the goal, not the feel. MANY golfers look for a feel first thinking it’ll produce the correct parameter. That rarely works. Then if the parameter isn’t based in reality, all bets are off from the get go.
Golf is like life, you're always searching for the truth, you do, and you should backtrack sometimes. but when your on the right path, move slow, listen to your gut, stack the bricks firmly and level, and hopefully you won't need a sledgehammer.
We’ve had to buy so many sledgehammers over the years 🤦♂️. Great post!
@@AthleticMotionGolf Thanks man! I've torn a few walls down, and I'm rebuilding. I've never hit the ball farther and straighter, and I'm 62. Thanks for the great videos, they are very helpful, I love the analytical nature of them.
Two weeks later and I’m still laughing at the comment shared at the start of the video…only one thing to ask in response: HUH?! As a golf professional myself, I deeply enjoy teaching this amazing, yet ridiculously difficult game. Importantly, all of us who’ve tried getting better at golf have navigated through the “UA-cam, instagram, swing tip websites, magazines, tv, etc. rabbit hole”; particularly, for those of us who identify as ‘self-taught.’
I laugh because - really? Information being provided on the game of golf appears contradictory? Correct…and of course. Go watch the current top 10 golfers in the world swing the club…they look the same or different to you? I’m not judging the aforementioned individual - that feeling/opinion isn’t felt exclusively by them - and I have empathy for any and all who experience it. But the takeaway here is that there are endless ways to swing the club and be a phenomenal (or terrible ;)) ball striker. 3 things - attack angle, club face, and club path - matter specific to one’s ball flight/ball striking ability. Period.
For the FIRST time (at least that I’ve seen and trust me, I’ve seen way too much), athletic motion golf has created a golf learning platform rooted in FACTS EXCLUSIVELY! Is no one else mind-blown to have found a channel that compares professional and amateur golf swings, identifies the most notable differences, and provides data-driven swing advice based on those differences? The potential value is overwhelming!! They’re not making this stuff up or throwing darts at potential “cure-alls.” Believe it or not, that’s unheard of in the industry! And a quick side bar: when you work to change anything in your swing, please understand 3 different things will get worse as a result of said change. CHANGE. TAKES. TIME. Nothing about that time will feel short or linear so embrace the ride. My recommendation (I’m pleading, tbh) would be to avoid reading, watching, or listening to any other source of golf swing information. If you take the time to digest, understand, and grind through what’s being taught on this channel (which could and probably should take the rest of your golf life), you will 100 percent improve…and substantially I might add. Take solace in knowing that all the information, even that which seems contradictory, is accurate. Whoa! Even that sentence contradicts itself a little bit. Chill. Open up your mind to the possibility that this isn’t target BS aimed at maybe helping some golfers games. It’s correct. All of it.
*rant complete.* All that aside, I thank you guys for for the service and experience you provide your viewers. It’s no doubt a ton of work and you continue to deliver huge amounts of potential value. It’s made my own game better. It’s made my students games better. Hats off fellas!
Actually you would have trouble bending all irons in a set to 8 iron but we get your drift. lol
They were older forged irons, the kind that bend when you look at em wrong lol
This is a "Cut through the confusion" video, but its just you two talking
I kind of agree. You have hundreds of videos. Way too confusing. I'm sure it makes sense to you, but they're still too confusing
Problem; you have a problem, you see a video, you fix that problem, then,… another video contradicts that fix so you fix the problem that fixed that problem. It never ends and then you end up worse than before! We all know it takes along time and a lot of boring practice to be a good golfer and to seriously change a bad swing. I’ve been watching your videos for the last 3 months and I get what your simple swing techniques are. I’ve really been watching and practicing the Harvey Penick’s magic move. It works, but, you got to practice it every day and I mean every day! The big problem with teachers like yourselves is that there’s so many magic moves that it screws everyone up!
Sorry, Daniel, as you’ve described it - the problem is you fixed something then kept clicking on videos to fix something that’s no longer broke. STOP clicking on videos if you fixed it. Problem solved 👍
Chris Como who was Tigers last instructor had a show on the Golf Channel in which he interviewed TOP instructors - he asked what was the state of instruction - response 90% don’t know what they are doing - bottom line find a good instructor ie gears
Wow that’s a lot 🫣
What about trainers and coaches confusing the hell out of us. Spend thousands and get worse
Yes it’s pretty bad.
haha that comment in the beginning seems like it belongs in a twitter thread about politics or something lol. Relax man! It's golf!! Blame yourself if you're mad haha.
Lol we golfers invest a lot in our games. The frustration is understandable, but we also can’t avoid the mirror when looking for people to blame 😊
@@AthleticMotionGolf Well said!
it always depends on the shot...high draw? u better be releasing? low draw? meh you can hold trap that? the fade low or high is that hold feeling? i play for many years, my body does not hit the ball. jackasseasseszzz...just talkin just to talk....talk much? talkers? hey talkers, wanna talk about how we are going to talk about talking to talk to talkers who like to talk to talkers about talking to talkers.
Not sure what you’re talking about 😜
As usual, missing the point entirely,. The problem is much more with intentions and outcomes than positions or actions. The way this rubbish is taught, based on movements creates problems, massive problems which you're part of. You don't understand how learning happens , that's the problem.
I tried the drop the arms down and turn what they mentioned AND STARTED HOOKING
Lol so when players intent to hit good shoots and want good outcomes, but are using actions that don’t allow either to happen, I’ll be sure to let them know they don’t understand how learning happens🤦♂️. Please start a channel so you can help us all how to learn better and play better. It seems selfish to have all the answers but not share them with the world.
There are too many videos that say do this do that, and so many golf club video hyping up how forgiving they are, it is ridiculous, I think every golf pro is joining the band wagon, what makes me laugh is that the pros who give all the advice and techniques haven't won any title's 😂 so for me I don't really listen to them now, unsubscribed to all them.
To be honest I watched their swings and they were virtually the same technique with their own spin on it.
Rick shield is more about how many people subscribe to his channel as do most off them.they show you so many different techniques / ideas well I call them props empty box, or a tee, jumper under your armpit and it goes on,
Totally agree most swings are much the same, it's all about the practice and what suits you.
At least you two are talking sense.
Paul from the UK
Thank you!