I'd not realised that the first time I watched this episode. But then I binge-watched a couple of seasons and I just... wow. Go Ezri, go have a cry in the same place you (Dax) were murdered less than a year ago because someone called you on the bs of you being a Counsellor. It's not even a joke that her being a Counsellor, she got it because Sisko called in a favour. And I am just appalled that Starfleet thought that a green, not even really qualified Counsellor was the best person to serve as a Counsellor at the main hub of the Dominion War. Gah!
I agree. Given the mess she was, she had no business even *thinking* about counseling someone else. And don't get me started on that undeserved promotion she received. That moment just screamed, "Hey, everybody! Look at the 'Mary Sue' of 'Deep Space Nine', our very own Ezri Dax!" Can you tell that I'm not too fond of her? (Grin)
While she was already about to cry, she paused for a moment, after looking around, I think she only just realized that she ended up where her last life ended and it added too it. Then she just exploded
Earlier in the episode that was one of the first places she stopped by. Kira found her there and they talked about it a little. This time it was just instinct. As a promising young assistant counselor, she can't even keep herself together enough to help someone - her old life and career has died. As a person, the dead can do nothing, can help nobody, have no place among the living. She's a shade of Jadzia. So it's kind of a great choice to see her go to where that life ended, even if none of this is said out loud. Plus sometimes you just want to revisit something bad to get sad/mad about how much it fucked everything up.
He was talking about himself as much as he was her. I think that's why he was so disgusted by her, she reminded him too much of himself. And that's the worst thing you could do to Garak.
He was hurting and every word he said was true, just delivered in a nasty way. She should now, as a therapist AND as Dex. But no. She goes into a corner and cries.
Sisko made a major mistake asking Ezri to talk to Garak. You don't send an emotionally-compromised therapist to talk to an unwilling patient with a tendency towards biting insults and aggressive psychoanalysis. She was doomed before she even entered the shop.
But she did get to him at the end. Garak lashed at her because he was afraid to show his weakness, he knew she would find out eventually what is killing him from inside.
This is why he was such a gifted interrogator. He knows exactly where to hit you. Not to hurt you. But to utterly break you in a tweet. Hell, she's a therapist. She knows that the patient lashing out is part of the process and it still worked.
Just because you know how to mend it does not give you any resilience towards getting broken by it - as it does not the opposite way round. This is Garak "teaching" her self confidence the only way he knows, the Way he learned all his life. And seeing a Dax strengh unused in her Pains him horribly - as he yearns for this all his life but could not find it in himself. Jadzia showed him that this Strengh is only to be found through interaction, even the hurtful ones. That is the reason he started to have Lunch with Bashir, an Outsider with Secrets as him, yet managing to fit in and lacking that strengh as well. If he can teach Bashir that Strengh, he can do the same and get it as well. This also resonates with Bashirs Story - "the science Guinea Pig". Bashir realizes this to some degree, but is not offended rather than intruiged by this, he also want to see where this goes - as Garak does many Times when intruiged. And so he was "himself" while forcing Ezri to grow some selfconfidence because she will need it in that War of will end up dead as Jadzia - or worse, a "colletaral damage" as he is.
Technically he was being truthful with his 'Now get out of here before I say something unkind'. From most Cardassian's perspective, and especially someone as flawed as Garak, showing someone their flaws so they may improve themselves is a kindness.
I certainly agree with that perception. Showing someone their weaknesses can be most helpful in helping them better themselves. Its something that should be done far more often, I suspect.
As large as the Federation is, why could they not send this woman to serve someplace else. Not to the place where her predecessor had friends and family.
I absolutely ADORE Garak, but I think he was incorrect here, due no doubt to his own pain. But treating people this way is not normally his style, and his lesson to Ezri could have been better taught another way. And he of all people normally would know that.
+Mary Knasinski He was giving her the blunt truth. His own personal suffering isn't the top priority since there was much more important things, such as saving Cardassia from their own destruction. And he was right. Hundred of millions of Cardassians died as a result of the Dominion War.
She shouldn't have felt entitled to intrude in his world. She has no one to blame but herself if she didn't like what she found there. An important lesson for a young new conscious being (by point of fusion atleast).
Scenes like this just confirm my belief that Garak really was the best written character on the show… Except I could also say that about Nog, or Odo, or Kira, or Bashir, or Dukat, or Quark… and well you get the point When people ask me why I love this show, and why I think it was the best of the Star Trek series, I always respond “ Because it was so good, that even a supporting character could carry an episode”
DeBoer was put in an impossible situation; replacing a beloved character in the show--much less in the *last season*--is a truly thankless task. That she pulled it off as well as she did is a tribute to her talents as an actress.
@@chrishubbard64 Probably anything other than the simple truth of the matter. Because Ezri Dax *was* trying to be Jadzia'Dax, and not Ezri'Dax. And that is the crux of the issue of Ezri as a whole. She never tried to become her own true person but insisted on being Jadzia 2.0 and was just a pale shadow. Something unkind would be how she didn't deserve any symbiote if all she strove to be was a copy of the previous wearers, rather than adding her legacy to predecessors. The whole idea of the Trill was to add to the legacy, not to be a pale shadow. Ezi is a poor example of the Dax line and a poor Trill if she is incapable of being her own person but just a shadow of the previous one. Even if you claim that it was to save the Dax symbiote, Ezri should have taken a position literally anywhere else. She was incapable or refused to become her own person and you cannot blame that on the Dominion War.
If memory serves, Cardassians are literally turned on by insults and it's their standard courtship behavior. So actually going beyond into cruelty they would find truly hurtful is probably... extreme.
Remember when Garak told assaulted by the Klingons? Garak: Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos. Bashir: Garak, this isn't funny. Garak: I'm serious, doctor! Thanks to your administrations I'm almost completely healed but the damage I did to them will last a lifetime. He wasn't exaggerating
@@Djm95454 I thikn you're agreeing that Letsneverplayagain is right, the correct word is "ministrations", not "administrations". Not really a bad mistake though.
Lost control? Please. The guy is a raving sociopath. If he could get away with killing her he would just for asking to help. Don't for a minute think I'm kidding.
"Elim. Promise me one thing." "I'm listening." "Don't die here. Escape. Live." "Let me guess. So I can make the Dominion pay for what they've done to you." "You wouldn't deny an old man his revenge, would you?" "I'll do as you ask, on one condition…That you don't ask me this favor as a mentor, or a superior officer… but as a father asking his son." "You're not my son." "Father, you're dying. For once in your life, speak the truth." "I should have killed your mother before you were born. You have always been a weakness I can't afford." "So you've told me. Many times. Listen, Enabran. All I ask is that for this moment, let me be your son." (a pause) "Elim, remember that day…in the country. You must've been almost five." "How can I forget it? It was the only day." "I can still see you, on the back of that riding hound. You must've fallen off a dozen times. But you never gave up." "I remember limping home…You held my hand." "I was very proud of you, that day."
@Jaegar Ultima it seems like cruelty is the way cardassians live and what their whole society is built upon. but with the phrase "you have always been a weakness i can afford" i think that that was his father's way of saying that he did care for him and that caring was a weakness, and so had to repress it in order to both protect himself and his son from others who would do him harm(bc of his position of power in the spy organization and stuff).
The thing I loved about that scene was that while Worf and everyone else stayed outside of the room during this scene, Bashir was by his side like a shadow of kindness who was there for a friend to witness this most intimate of moments between a man who was losing his father and the father who had long ago given up his son. Garak doesn't have to ask Bashir to be there; the doctor understands. He knows. It was at that point in the show that I decided that their friendship was much deeper than we saw on the surface and it was beautiful. And yes, I cried like a baby more for Garak than for Tain.
The only day he was ever kind to his son. Wow. I'm glad that at least in the very end, Enabran allowed his son that one tiny bit of fatherhood. It's not nearly enough, but knowing how proud and disdainful he was, it stays volumes that he conceded for Elim at the end of his life.
@@Aleph-Noll that might not be true remember that time obsidian tried to make Kira Nerys think she was a Cardassian or the cardassian civilian leader whose son was adopted by a Bajoran family.
Can we talk about the fact Ezri got all that flung her way and did not even flinch until she had taken herself to a safer space away from Garak? Like that's difficult man, she has some serious self-control.
Okay, verbally eviscerate her then say, "Now get out of here. Before I say something unkind." After all that, I gotta wonder...what the FUCK was the UNKIND stuff he was holding back on?!
this is Elim fuckin Garak, so if he really wanted to, he'd have her throw herself from the promenade's upper level i think he rather wanted her to think about herself & find out who she really was. she was kinda sleepwalking through her life, and he helped her wake up. it was a bit of a shock therapy, but when you see her in later episodes, she gets stronger & more confident. so in fact, he was helping her.
harpyion True. Hey, I freakin' LOVE Garak, I bought his book "A Stitch In Time" (strongly recommend reading it by the way) written by Andrew Robinson himself. Garak is AWESOME and a BADASS, legit.
While I disliked the way he treated her, I think he was real upset over what was happening to his homeworld and in secret, despised their betrayal by joining the Dominion, even though he himself would have been capable of such a treacherous move. Maybe he saw Cardassia as whoring herself out to a fearsome, destructive alien empire that threatened their way of living and freedom. Being a patriot, he probably saw Cardassia being used as a 'tool' in reaping the benefits for the Dominion only. And now he was forced to kill his own people in a war they would lose. No wonder he joined Damar's resistance. I think the Dax symbiont also helped Ezri in dealing with Garak's conniption fit, despite she felt really bad over it. The symbiont probably had its fair share of bullshit over its 300 year existence, so his hurtful tirade might have been something familiar to her in another life......maybe all those times Curzon was dealing with harsh Klingons during negotiations.
The stuff making her Mind break and not make her grow stronger through defeat. If you do so, make sure the other one is strong enough inside. And a Dax is strong - Ezri was just afraid of beeing strong. Saying the same in a friendly, advising matter and not that agressive will break someone. Cause depression and finally suicidal thoughts. But make yourself the Villain, make you the enemy makes the other resent your words. If thoose Words were the true reason of that Persons struggles, the Person starts to resent this as well and start improving "to show you were wrong". That is Garak teaching. Painful? Yes. Cruel? Yes. Fast? Yes. An they had no Time as he said. She needed to grow fast or get eaten up by the Beast that is War. A Beast Garak is taught that same way to get used to handling it. If you had "helped" her by tellign what her flaws are she'd sought "to imporove to meet the Requirements" - and that had been the fastest way to make her throw herself in front of that Beast, gettin killed as trooper.
Garak has a way of making people feel terrible about themselves on multiple levels. In two sentences, he insulted Dukat on twenty levels. “She really is quite lovely. She must take after her mother.”
Dukat deserved it lol. Usually Garak's insults are earned. This time, however, he was grieving both for his people and for the loss of a friend. I get why he blew up.
It still baffles me that Nikki de Boer can get fan shade for not being Terry Farrell and that Ezri isn't Jadzia. And she is such a sweetheart in real life too, total class act.
to be fair, the writers did her dirty by putting her in that position, so it's a "do what you can with the task provided" scenario. Was just not a good follow up for fans so close to after that. Could have been on another show or in a future movie. Especially with the shit Worf was feeling, the confusion of his recently killed wife.... Sisko has gone through 2 and is on a third.... it's messed up and a lot of characters, written to respond in different ways, could catch just as much flak, even more . Imagine Worf and Ezri getting married and having children in the final season. How would fans take that? Holy smokes. It was probably just not a good choice for the writers in general but they did it and we watched it. so, eh. My Rav 4 is named Dax for being as crazy as Curzon.
@@firestuka8850 I don't agree at all, but then again I didn't really relate to the character of Jadzia and her death wasn't a punch in the gut to me. I related to Ezri far more: - emotional and draws from that fact - it's a strength and a source of wisdom, not a liability, - a quick learner that can easily think on her feet, - plagued by impostor syndrome but always delivers and outgrows the expectations despite not getting a lot of support - not even the bare minimum of help as a fresh Trill host or a counselor, because every counselor ought to have a supervisor and she wasn't granted that, so she will accomplish impossible tasks thinking that her struggles are caused by her inadequacy and pushing herself far too much instead of accepting that her level of skill is expected and natural, - doesn't sugarcoat shit and is rather free of bias (I mean the way she acknowledged flaws within her family and roasted the Klingon Empire right to Worf's face), - has a bad relationship with her family full of dicks and isn't afraid to hold them at arm's length, - wants to be her own person - for her achievements to be her own and to be fully independent instead of using her family's money and connections or piggybacking off of somebody else like Jadzia did with Dax's previous hosts, - has an analytical mind, especially towards psychology and behavioral sciences but not limited to, - is willing to explore the darkest corners of her psyche because she understands it won't go anywhere just because she'd pretend it doesn't exist, - is shy and understanding but isn't a doormat and won't hesitate to kick butt in self-defence, - rules are to be broken if needed - not as an act of defiance or rebellion but because no set of rules is good for every one person and the wellbeing of a person is more important than made up bullshit - a sign of a true counselor. So given that list I really can't understand how anyone dares say she wasn't fully developed or was badly written. She was great. They gave her far more to do as a counselor in 1 season than they gave Troi in 7 seasons of TNG, and her style of work was actually viable. They developed her as a character in 1 season more than Jadzia in 6 - sorry, I know Jadzia is a fan favorite but it has more to do with her being a hot chick and a bro than a developed well-rounded character.
@@firestuka8850well it's confusing for everyone, the only one who took it well was Sisko because this is the third time Sisko dealt with the trill dax.
DS9 is by far my favorite Trek show. My only complaint about the series is that we only got one season of Ezri. There were a ton of great characters in this series, and she was definitely one of them.
After seeing this scene we now know that when Garek said he have Martok's son some scathing remarks that would hurt him for the rest of his life he wasn't joking. It explains why we never saw Martok's son again, he probably spent the next 4 years crying in his quarters.
This was, genuinely, the scene where I came to appreciate Ezri as a separate character. It showed her overcoming her own self doubts and stepping out of Jadzia, and into Ezri. Do I still prefer Jadzia? Yes of course, but that's not because Ezri is a bad character. She just has to go through her S1 arc on the LAST season... Because they didn't want to renew it ;(
In an emotional state, she trys to go somewhere quiet, then realizes that where she ended up was where she died the last time she was there, then just let's it all out.
Everyone talking about how savage Garak was here (which he was of course, rightfully so), and all I could really think of was how pronounced his neck and shoulder ridges (if that's the right word) seemed in this scene. They made Garak look like an aggravated cobra ready to strike. And in fact strike he did, but it was more of a warning strike.
I noticed that, too! think it helps that the camera angles reinforced the idea that he was both taller and stronger than Ezri, thus making her look smaller compared to him even though Andrew Robinson is only 5'10. I think they also had perfected his makeup by that point so the details stood out better, particularly in that shirt, which framed his neck ridges rather than covering them. Mmm... Neck ridges...
To be fair to Ezri, which she doesn't deserve in this instance, we only knew Jadzia AFTER she was bonded, and she didn't have the bonding forced on her without warning, without the years of preparation Jadzia had. There's only one episode where we really got to see Jadzia as herself, rather than bonded to Dax, and she was a much more vulnerable, uncertain girl than Ezri is here.
Ah, but you're misunderstanding what a Trill "is". They are, at their core, bound beings with dual personality. Seeing Jadzia's personality right after having lost her Trill would be like trying to talk to a man the day after he got his penis amputated. It's losing a part of oneself.
when someone tells you politely to fuck off, and you continue on provoking them, then yes you deserve the tongue lashing. she most certainly deserved it.
JamesMichaelDoyle What part of 'which she doesn't deserve' was unclear? I'm not coming at this as an advocate for Ezri, I'm just saying that Garak needs to be able to parse the host/symbiote disparity here, because technically part of Jadzia is in that room with him.
I think a phaser would have done less damage. Every word he said was true. Jadzia was everything he said she was and Ezri is everything he said she is and held zero back. That is what made DS9 different. Troi, I think, would try to read his feelings and may be scared off!
You can't compare Ezri to Jadzia. Jadzia had extensive training on how to be a symbiont host. She was always confident in herself. Ezri had no experience in being a joined Trill, she didn't even want to be a joined Trill, she was fresh the Academy. Still not sure about herself, or her place in the galaxy.
I never found her attractive in DS9. The uniform, the hair, never attractive. Years later, she was far more attractive. But she recently appeared on Lore Reloaded's channel looking fine.
One of the reasons I really like this scene is that it's kind of a nod to the fans themselves - Garak is virtually repeating every fan complaint about a character who'd only been in the series (by this point) for about five episodes.
maybe first episode on the station but she had at least 2 episodes prior to this one.... she first appeared outside sisko's fathers place and then they spent another episode uncovering the orb, she didnt arrive on the station until sisko came back... so in this clip where she is clearly on the station thus it couldnt of been her first episode on the show.
Matthew Kuba yeah, during negotiations for the last season she didn't like what she was offered. Some of the others could go and do other projects and stuff but she wasn't allowed. She had to take the deal or leave, so she left. Apparently it was all Rick Berman's fault
What makes Garak's words so destructive in this scene is that he's speaking honestly....( a rarity for the character ) Garak of all people knows that honesty is very volatile and extremely potent. A brutally honest statement is easily one of most destructive things you can say to another person. Most of us will put up our emotional shields once someone starts cursing, using slurs or making threats.. but honesty is something that we innately accept.. it's something that cuts to the core. Use extreme caution when dispensing the truth. Unfiltered it can end careers, friendships, marriages, even lives.
I would make an opposite suggestion - stop being a pussy and teach yourself to be capable of accepting honesty and truth of others. That said, there are different ways of being honest and it, like any kind of communication, must be handled properly. TNG was heavily about this, Picard was the master of such communication and others were VERY good too.
TGGeko Ehh, I don't think this was really projection; just inherrent defense mechanisms at work. Garak had a horrible life from childhood onwards and survived by both compartmentalizing his emotional scars and actively stopping anyone from getting near them. His first line of defense when he's in full control is pleasant congeleality mixed with well fabricated lies to placate others (his spycraft training at work). If that fails (or if he's been made more vunerable by one of his flaws), he resorts to cruelty and biting critisism; typically using information he's built up of someone's psyche for maximum effect. He *KNEW* Ezri had feelings of inadequacy as a host and used that to get her to back off.
Garak is usually talking about himself, under the guise of talking about other things. And when he wants to talk about other things, he does so by talking about other other things.
I love how you can tell he doesn't ACTUALLY mean it. He's thought of it for sure, but would never intentionally hurt a comrade (unless it meant for the greater good of Cardassia) because I do think he respects her. This is him doing an extremely human thing and venting all his rage and anger on ANYTHING but the real issue. We're all guilty of doing the same thing. it's also him talking about himself, again, an extremely human thing. GENIUS! AMAZING ACTING, DIRECTING, AND WRITING!
i kinda wish the series lasted a little longer so we could see a little more character development on ezri. ezri wasn't around till the last season so if the series lasted a season or two longer i bet we could see some more development in ezri and it wouldn't make her look and sound like a counselor who is a girly miss two shoes that really isn't starfleet material.
Ezri's welcome to DS9, home to aliens with broken childhoods and low-functioning personality disorders. First up: A lesson in frustrated love, rage and cruelty, as only a glassy-eyed Explosive Sadist can teach it.
@@GestapoPussyRanch Garak always did have a gift for ironic understatement. This scene compares to the time years earlier when Bashir tried to help Garak and received a disillusioning diatribe for his trouble.
He was only hard on her because he knew she needed it. Naaaaa-that is psycho babble. Garek was hardcore, uncensored truthful. He did hold back a little for her.
Problem with Ezri was that she was an ensign, fresh out of SF Medical... Usually they need to work under someone else's tutelage to become experience. She wasn't experienced.
@@Locutus In hindsight, I liked Ezri more than Jadzia. It took a while as I said, but in the end she was more grounded. Jadzia could be a raving narcissist at times.
Garak WAS being kind--in his own way. Ezri needed to hear some pretty harsh truths about herself. What Garak told her was exactly how she was. He told her what she needed to hear.
Man I don't remember Garek being so cruel. I mean give Ezri a break, she never had the training to be a symbiote. Damn Garek, I thought you were a good bad guy
She should have laughed, turned on her heel and while fondling a garment near the door retorted: "Why, youre just a big softie arent you Garak? [pause] You dropped a stitch here. Come see me when you want to talk." Then left.
I think, in his own way, Garak was actually trying to help Ezri. But in a harsh dose of cold-reality type way. To make Ezri realise this was who she now was.
What a shitty cry job. lol I think DS9 has got to the only series I've watched where the guest stars were better than the main cast. Sure, you got Avery Brooks dropping the mic on every Sisko-centric episode, but you also got Max Grodénchik, Marc Alaimo, Jeffery Combs, and of course, Andrew Robinson blowing every scene they're in out of the sky and leaving everyone's jaw dropped. Even Tony Todd was freaking awesome in that ONE episode where he played the elder Jake Sisko.
The Visitor. Tony Todd was also strong as Kurn, Worf's disgraced and wayward brother. You are so right about the guest actors. Academy Award winning Louise Fletcher (Kai Winn) was so perfectly aggravating, and along with Dukat, was a chief antagonist through all 7 seasons. William Sadler as Luther Sloan? Wallace Shawn as Grand Nagus Zek? Even Brock Peters as Joseph Sisko? Martok, Damar, Nog, Bariel, Cassidy, Eddington? The list could go on and on.
If you are a main cast member on star trek, that is what your career will always be. I think by the time TNG was around, every actor knew that star trek was a career defining move that you weren't going to get away from. Ever. So I think you get actors that have already topped out in terms of talent and have gone as far as they can in Hollywood. Avery Brooks was semi-retired and teaching classes when he got the Sisko role. Being a star trek captain isn't a bad thing to have your career come down to (hence you got real talent in the form of Stewart, Avery, and Mulgrew), but "Space Shrink on the step-child TNG spin off" isn't. You might get a payday, but you're typecast from here on out. Hence the problem with post TNG era shows having shit (at the very least, very uneven levels of acting talent) acting from most of the cast, you've got to settle for subset of actors that are ok going to conventions and being a part of star trek for the rest of their lives. But anyone can guest star without getting typed cast, plus acting in star trek is probably pretty fun the first few times you do it, hence you get a lot A+ talent in the guest spots.
Garak had more "scales?" in this episode on his neck/shoulders in this scene than usual if that is the correct term. I watched his last scene with Bashir in the finale, they were back to normal. There is normally one layer from the shoulder then smooth, he has 3 layers in this scene.
Cardassians supposedly regrow neck scales all their lives. I think they conveyed that. It also makes him look tense and aggressive, which he is. Like a cobra, ready to strike with the debilitating venom of harsh honesty
Farrell was a very limited actress. She had a nice face but that was not enough to hold her for more than 2 or 3 seasons. She was boring. Ezri was bright, young, funny. Finally some lightness in deep space. I wish she was there earlier. So we could see her mature to a fine woman. I think she's adorable.
reading these comments, i'd like to point out garrak is the only one who did her a solid, here and when she felt incapable, he gave her that push no one else, she doubted herself, was probably the only person who hadn't come to terms with the fact shes in the effective middle of a warzone then we have garrak who points this out to her, in the only way really that was gonna help. when he gets oddly uncharactaristically upset about the deaths of fellow cardassians cause of his work decoding whatever it was, comms? he, a former obsiandian order member, who killed a great many, who just a year earlier blew up a romulan ambassador if it was nothing. he knows fine well what hes saying and why hes saying it to her. find the full of this and i beleive the next episode, he has this oddly satisfied smile at the end after ezri starts coming around
Garak was right, he has ALOT of baggage to unload and this ..thing.. calling herself Dax is nowhere near qualified to help him. Deanna Troi would have a hard time getting Garak fixed even after years. She did what most would figure her to do in that situation, run off and cry in a corner because someone was mean to her.
Yeah Garrick the person who has the Memories and experience of several people in her head couldn’t possibly start to understand what you are going through
Yes, Garak tears Ezri to shreds here, but that’s not what I love about this scene. When he says “I KNEW Jadzia, she was vital, alive, she owned herself”, he truly respected Dax, even though they never had an obvious on-screen friendship.
Poor little girl...Garak was a mess then, and took it out on her when she was also feeling vulnerable. It wasn't typical of Garak, he always seemed to be nice to the innocent. As for what people have said about his employing torture as a spy, I wonder if he really did. His style of torture was once described as breaking someone down by just staring at them for 3 hours, and his apparent eagerness to do the interrogations might have simply been to spare them the much more horrid experience of other interrogators. When he had to go along in torturing Odo, he hated it and agonized with him, and they bonded afterwards. He has a heart and doesn't normally like hurting people. And he as well as all the others were grieving over the loss of Jadzia. So far, I'm halfway through the 7th season, so there may be more to him than I know. Came to the series just recently
He should have skipped the pleasantries and just said something unkind. He was far to kind, a real Dax would have the fire and conviction to earn the respect of the fork tongued tailor.
I find it neat that the place Ezri goes to cry is the same place where Jadzia was murdered.
I'd not realised that the first time I watched this episode. But then I binge-watched a couple of seasons and I just... wow. Go Ezri, go have a cry in the same place you (Dax) were murdered less than a year ago because someone called you on the bs of you being a Counsellor. It's not even a joke that her being a Counsellor, she got it because Sisko called in a favour. And I am just appalled that Starfleet thought that a green, not even really qualified Counsellor was the best person to serve as a Counsellor at the main hub of the Dominion War. Gah!
Holy crap, I hadn't noticed that before. Great psychological continuity.
I agree. Given the mess she was, she had no business even *thinking* about counseling someone else. And don't get me started on that undeserved promotion she received. That moment just screamed, "Hey, everybody! Look at the 'Mary Sue' of 'Deep Space Nine', our very own Ezri Dax!"
Can you tell that I'm not too fond of her? (Grin)
While she was already about to cry, she paused for a moment, after looking around, I think she only just realized that she ended up where her last life ended and it added too it. Then she just exploded
Earlier in the episode that was one of the first places she stopped by. Kira found her there and they talked about it a little. This time it was just instinct. As a promising young assistant counselor, she can't even keep herself together enough to help someone - her old life and career has died. As a person, the dead can do nothing, can help nobody, have no place among the living. She's a shade of Jadzia. So it's kind of a great choice to see her go to where that life ended, even if none of this is said out loud.
Plus sometimes you just want to revisit something bad to get sad/mad about how much it fucked everything up.
This is one of the few times that Garaks foot slipped off the brakes and you can see how comfortable he is with cruelty.
Well, he did used to torture people as part of his job.
He was talking about himself as much as he was her. I think that's why he was so disgusted by her, she reminded him too much of himself. And that's the worst thing you could do to Garak.
It's been said that hurting people hurt people. Garak is angry and frustrated at himself and took out his anger at Ezri.
He was hurting and every word he said was true, just delivered in a nasty way. She should now, as a therapist AND as Dex. But no. She goes into a corner and cries.
@@nela3986 Because no one ever cried at being told a harsh truth?
Sisko made a major mistake asking Ezri to talk to Garak. You don't send an emotionally-compromised therapist to talk to an unwilling patient with a tendency towards biting insults and aggressive psychoanalysis. She was doomed before she even entered the shop.
For trying to help. Stop blaming the victim here.
They're saying Sisko sent her into the lion's den.
And yet it worked in the end
Sisko also sent Dax to talk to Garak in order to help Ezri. He knew Garak would say the things he never could.
But she did get to him at the end. Garak lashed at her because he was afraid to show his weakness, he knew she would find out eventually what is killing him from inside.
This is why he was such a gifted interrogator. He knows exactly where to hit you. Not to hurt you. But to utterly break you in a tweet. Hell, she's a therapist. She knows that the patient lashing out is part of the process and it still worked.
Garak should have gotten a spin-off. Such an incredible character.
Just because you know how to mend it does not give you any resilience towards getting broken by it - as it does not the opposite way round.
This is Garak "teaching" her self confidence the only way he knows, the Way he learned all his life.
And seeing a Dax strengh unused in her Pains him horribly - as he yearns for this all his life but could not find it in himself.
Jadzia showed him that this Strengh is only to be found through interaction, even the hurtful ones.
That is the reason he started to have Lunch with Bashir, an Outsider with Secrets as him, yet managing to fit in and lacking that strengh as well. If he can teach Bashir that Strengh, he can do the same and get it as well.
This also resonates with Bashirs Story - "the science Guinea Pig".
Bashir realizes this to some degree, but is not offended rather than intruiged by this, he also want to see where this goes - as Garak does many Times when intruiged.
And so he was "himself" while forcing Ezri to grow some selfconfidence because she will need it in that War of will end up dead as Jadzia - or worse, a "colletaral damage" as he is.
Technically he was being truthful with his 'Now get out of here before I say something unkind'. From most Cardassian's perspective, and especially someone as flawed as Garak, showing someone their flaws so they may improve themselves is a kindness.
I certainly agree with that perception. Showing someone their weaknesses can be most helpful in helping them better themselves. Its something that should be done far more often, I suspect.
I know people like this. They know where all your closely hidden buttons are and if you tick them off they'll push them without a second thought.
@J.L.W I was a pushover until my boss tried to end my career, so I ended his. Now I emulate JR Ewing and Lionel Luthor to survive.
I like this scene. Wish I could find a video of the scene where Garak finally tells her the reason behind his clausterphobia attacks.
MalzraAirwynn Hrm, I might upload that on my new channel.
MalzraAirwynn Is this the one? watch?v=FW9PsxYVZjc
This link doesn't work anymore... plz re link :)
Link works for me. Verified using incognito mode as well.
Ezri thought she was Therapist Level G(uinan) for a moment, gets destroyed by +1000% reflection damage.
Indeed!
Guinan could take Q.
Weird thing is, she still helped, even though he claimed not to want any help. Because what he needed was to vent.
Ezri should of wished Garak happy 30th birthday instead
As large as the Federation is, why could they not send this woman to serve someplace else. Not to the place where her predecessor had friends and family.
Just when you couldnt love Garak more… he still shocks you!
I absolutely ADORE Garak, but I think he was incorrect here, due no doubt to his own pain. But treating people this way is not normally his style, and his lesson to Ezri could have been better taught another way. And he of all people normally would know that.
+Mary Knasinski He was giving her the blunt truth. His own personal suffering isn't the top priority since there was much more important things, such as saving Cardassia from their own destruction. And he was right. Hundred of millions of Cardassians died as a result of the Dominion War.
Oof! That was like challenging the end boss before you've leveled up enough to prevail. It only ends one way.
I had forgotten where one of my all time favorite "quotes/phrases" came from: "spare me your insipid psycho babble."
And later, "Spare me your insufferable Federation optimism."
...Garak, that is not how one should mourn someone, by 'Dissecting' another who is trying to get her bearings on who she is...
She shouldn't have felt entitled to intrude in his world. She has no one to blame but herself if she didn't like what she found there. An important lesson for a young new conscious being (by point of fusion atleast).
....That looks cathartic af tho. Crying.
...she started it. He just ended it... damn, I hate psychologists.
Scenes like this just confirm my belief that Garak really was the best written character on the show… Except I could also say that about Nog, or Odo, or Kira, or Bashir, or Dukat, or Quark… and well you get the point
When people ask me why I love this show, and why I think it was the best of the Star Trek series, I always respond “ Because it was so good, that even a supporting character could carry an episode”
since ezri is reinforced with dax, she probably wouldn't have actually gotten her feelings hurt
I just paused at 1.25 and gazed in to her eyes. Not really Star Trekkie but hey ho.
If women today were to see this written the #metoo movement would have a field day!
DeBoer was put in an impossible situation; replacing a beloved character in the show--much less in the *last season*--is a truly thankless task. That she pulled it off as well as she did is a tribute to her talents as an actress.
She played her character well. The character just wasn't a satisfactory replacement for Jadzia.
She did a great job! she sold her character in 1 season! a monumental accomplishment!
Well...she did the one thing Jadzia initially refused to do: get in bed with Dr. Julian Bashir.
I really liked her character. Fish out of water, in over her head, struggling.
One of my favorite characters. Cute as a jar full of buttons too.
@@eschelar 100% agree
"before I say something unkind"
The Cardassian definition of unkind is definitely different from most other species.
I have to admit to an idle curiosity as to WHAT he would consider unkind.
I'm pretty sure he was reinforcing that everything he said was just facts, and to leave before he tells her what he *actually* thinks.
@@chrishubbard64 Probably anything other than the simple truth of the matter. Because Ezri Dax *was* trying to be Jadzia'Dax, and not Ezri'Dax. And that is the crux of the issue of Ezri as a whole. She never tried to become her own true person but insisted on being Jadzia 2.0 and was just a pale shadow.
Something unkind would be how she didn't deserve any symbiote if all she strove to be was a copy of the previous wearers, rather than adding her legacy to predecessors. The whole idea of the Trill was to add to the legacy, not to be a pale shadow. Ezi is a poor example of the Dax line and a poor Trill if she is incapable of being her own person but just a shadow of the previous one.
Even if you claim that it was to save the Dax symbiote, Ezri should have taken a position literally anywhere else. She was incapable or refused to become her own person and you cannot blame that on the Dominion War.
@@DwarfyDoodad You are right. You are not me. Nor should you try to be me. You are Tenzin.
If memory serves, Cardassians are literally turned on by insults and it's their standard courtship behavior. So actually going beyond into cruelty they would find truly hurtful is probably... extreme.
Remember when Garak told assaulted by the Klingons?
Garak: Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos.
Bashir: Garak, this isn't funny.
Garak: I'm serious, doctor! Thanks to your administrations I'm almost completely healed but the damage I did to them will last a lifetime.
He wasn't exaggerating
One of the previous comments in this thread reminded me of that scene.
"ministrations"
administrations? What the fuck?
LetsNeverPlayAgain it means “the provision of assistance or care”
@@Djm95454 I thikn you're agreeing that Letsneverplayagain is right, the correct word is "ministrations", not "administrations". Not really a bad mistake though.
Could be referring to his administration of medical care. Not really a mistake.
when you try to slightly burn someone but you lose control and set them on fire instead...
Lol
cremated is more accurate
Lost control? Please. The guy is a raving sociopath. If he could get away with killing her he would just for asking to help. Don't for a minute think I'm kidding.
@@greenhat8978 And then took the ashes and threw them into a nearby star.
@@chrissimmons7924 And then collapsed that star into a black hole so that those ashes will never escape.
"Elim. Promise me one thing."
"I'm listening."
"Don't die here. Escape. Live."
"Let me guess. So I can make the Dominion pay for what they've done to you."
"You wouldn't deny an old man his revenge, would you?"
"I'll do as you ask, on one condition…That you don't ask me this favor as a mentor, or a superior officer… but as a father asking his son."
"You're not my son."
"Father, you're dying. For once in your life, speak the truth."
"I should have killed your mother before you were born. You have always been a weakness I can't afford."
"So you've told me. Many times. Listen, Enabran. All I ask is that for this moment, let me be your son."
(a pause) "Elim, remember that day…in the country. You must've been almost five."
"How can I forget it? It was the only day."
"I can still see you, on the back of that riding hound. You must've fallen off a dozen times. But you never gave up."
"I remember limping home…You held my hand."
"I was very proud of you, that day."
@Jaegar Ultima it seems like cruelty is the way cardassians live and what their whole society is built upon. but with the phrase "you have always been a weakness i can afford" i think that that was his father's way of saying that he did care for him and that caring was a weakness, and so had to repress it in order to both protect himself and his son from others who would do him harm(bc of his position of power in the spy organization and stuff).
This whole moment kills me.... He held Elim's hand.... Just once.
The thing I loved about that scene was that while Worf and everyone else stayed outside of the room during this scene, Bashir was by his side like a shadow of kindness who was there for a friend to witness this most intimate of moments between a man who was losing his father and the father who had long ago given up his son. Garak doesn't have to ask Bashir to be there; the doctor understands. He knows.
It was at that point in the show that I decided that their friendship was much deeper than we saw on the surface and it was beautiful.
And yes, I cried like a baby more for Garak than for Tain.
The only day he was ever kind to his son. Wow. I'm glad that at least in the very end, Enabran allowed his son that one tiny bit of fatherhood. It's not nearly enough, but knowing how proud and disdainful he was, it stays volumes that he conceded for Elim at the end of his life.
@@Aleph-Noll that might not be true remember that time obsidian tried to make Kira Nerys
think she was a Cardassian or the cardassian civilian leader whose son was adopted by a Bajoran family.
Can we talk about the fact Ezri got all that flung her way and did not even flinch until she had taken herself to a safer space away from Garak? Like that's difficult man, she has some serious self-control.
And the place she went to hide was where Jadzia died
Safer space? Last time Dax was in that shrine Jadzia lost her life!!
Holy shit garak is mean..BUt god damn..He is the best charecter ever..
Okay, verbally eviscerate her then say, "Now get out of here. Before I say something unkind." After all that, I gotta wonder...what the FUCK was the UNKIND stuff he was holding back on?!
this is Elim fuckin Garak, so if he really wanted to, he'd have her throw herself from the promenade's upper level
i think he rather wanted her to think about herself & find out who she really was. she was kinda sleepwalking through her life, and he helped her wake up.
it was a bit of a shock therapy, but when you see her in later episodes, she gets stronger & more confident. so in fact, he was helping her.
harpyion True. Hey, I freakin' LOVE Garak, I bought his book "A Stitch In Time" (strongly recommend reading it by the way) written by Andrew Robinson himself. Garak is AWESOME and a BADASS, legit.
While I disliked the way he treated her, I think he was real upset over what was happening to his homeworld and in secret, despised their betrayal by joining the Dominion, even though he himself would have been capable of such a treacherous move.
Maybe he saw Cardassia as whoring herself out to a fearsome, destructive alien empire that threatened their way of living and freedom. Being a patriot, he probably saw Cardassia being used as a 'tool' in reaping the benefits for the Dominion only. And now he was forced to kill his own people in a war they would lose. No wonder he joined Damar's resistance.
I think the Dax symbiont also helped Ezri in dealing with Garak's conniption fit, despite she felt really bad over it. The symbiont probably had its fair share of bullshit over its 300 year existence, so his hurtful tirade might have been something familiar to her in another life......maybe all those times Curzon was dealing with harsh Klingons during negotiations.
The stuff making her Mind break and not make her grow stronger through defeat.
If you do so, make sure the other one is strong enough inside.
And a Dax is strong - Ezri was just afraid of beeing strong.
Saying the same in a friendly, advising matter and not that agressive will break someone.
Cause depression and finally suicidal thoughts.
But make yourself the Villain, make you the enemy makes the other resent your words.
If thoose Words were the true reason of that Persons struggles, the Person starts to resent this as well and start improving "to show you were wrong".
That is Garak teaching. Painful? Yes. Cruel? Yes. Fast? Yes.
An they had no Time as he said. She needed to grow fast or get eaten up by the Beast that is War.
A Beast Garak is taught that same way to get used to handling it.
If you had "helped" her by tellign what her flaws are she'd sought "to imporove to meet the Requirements" - and that had been the fastest way to make her throw herself in front of that Beast, gettin killed as trooper.
When you're low level but you face the end boss too early.
When you're X and you meet Vile for the first time.
Garak has a way of making people feel terrible about themselves on multiple levels. In two sentences, he insulted Dukat on twenty levels. “She really is quite lovely. She must take after her mother.”
Dukat deserved it lol. Usually Garak's insults are earned. This time, however, he was grieving both for his people and for the loss of a friend. I get why he blew up.
Quark made the same comment to Worf about Alexander lol.
Shades of Doctor Who & Harriet Jones; *Don’t you think she looks tired?*
Dukat was so incompetent and narcissistic I eventually just stop blaming him for his faults and started blaming the people that enabled him.
I come back to DS9 as an adult and... i liked it when I watched it new. I /LOVE/ it now when I can get the more subtle bits.
It still baffles me that Nikki de Boer can get fan shade for not being Terry Farrell and that Ezri isn't Jadzia. And she is such a sweetheart in real life too, total class act.
to be fair, the writers did her dirty by putting her in that position, so it's a "do what you can with the task provided" scenario. Was just not a good follow up for fans so close to after that. Could have been on another show or in a future movie. Especially with the shit Worf was feeling, the confusion of his recently killed wife.... Sisko has gone through 2 and is on a third.... it's messed up and a lot of characters, written to respond in different ways, could catch just as much flak, even more . Imagine Worf and Ezri getting married and having children in the final season. How would fans take that? Holy smokes. It was probably just not a good choice for the writers in general but they did it and we watched it. so, eh. My Rav 4 is named Dax for being as crazy as Curzon.
@@firestuka8850 I don't agree at all, but then again I didn't really relate to the character of Jadzia and her death wasn't a punch in the gut to me. I related to Ezri far more:
- emotional and draws from that fact - it's a strength and a source of wisdom, not a liability,
- a quick learner that can easily think on her feet,
- plagued by impostor syndrome but always delivers and outgrows the expectations despite not getting a lot of support - not even the bare minimum of help as a fresh Trill host or a counselor, because every counselor ought to have a supervisor and she wasn't granted that, so she will accomplish impossible tasks thinking that her struggles are caused by her inadequacy and pushing herself far too much instead of accepting that her level of skill is expected and natural,
- doesn't sugarcoat shit and is rather free of bias (I mean the way she acknowledged flaws within her family and roasted the Klingon Empire right to Worf's face),
- has a bad relationship with her family full of dicks and isn't afraid to hold them at arm's length,
- wants to be her own person - for her achievements to be her own and to be fully independent instead of using her family's money and connections or piggybacking off of somebody else like Jadzia did with Dax's previous hosts,
- has an analytical mind, especially towards psychology and behavioral sciences but not limited to,
- is willing to explore the darkest corners of her psyche because she understands it won't go anywhere just because she'd pretend it doesn't exist,
- is shy and understanding but isn't a doormat and won't hesitate to kick butt in self-defence,
- rules are to be broken if needed - not as an act of defiance or rebellion but because no set of rules is good for every one person and the wellbeing of a person is more important than made up bullshit - a sign of a true counselor.
So given that list I really can't understand how anyone dares say she wasn't fully developed or was badly written. She was great. They gave her far more to do as a counselor in 1 season than they gave Troi in 7 seasons of TNG, and her style of work was actually viable. They developed her as a character in 1 season more than Jadzia in 6 - sorry, I know Jadzia is a fan favorite but it has more to do with her being a hot chick and a bro than a developed well-rounded character.
BASHIR: They broke seven of your transverse ribs and fractured your clavicle!
@@firestuka8850well it's confusing for everyone, the only one who took it well was Sisko because this is the third time Sisko dealt with the trill dax.
DS9 is by far my favorite Trek show. My only complaint about the series is that we only got one season of Ezri. There were a ton of great characters in this series, and she was definitely one of them.
Jesus.
When garak is on your side. hes great.
But when hes on the OTHER side. And you aren't up to tackling him.
O-o. He will fucking STEAMROLL you.
After seeing this scene we now know that when Garek said he have Martok's son some scathing remarks that would hurt him for the rest of his life he wasn't joking.
It explains why we never saw Martok's son again, he probably spent the next 4 years crying in his quarters.
No, that was after Worf owned him at Quarks. Though admittedly Garak did soften him up for him.
Garak's remarks are probably why Drex lashed out at Quark while getting a drink. Then Worf went for the dagger, both figuratively and literally.
Ezri: Would you like some professional counseling?
Garak: I'm about to end this woman's whole career.
Garak: If you insist. When will you be sending one over?
On the contrary, him venting probably did help him, so she accomplished her goal.
except he didn’t, he made her whole career
"Insipid psycho-babble..." that just destroys her whole profession.
"Now get out of here before I say something unkind." Bahahaha, what a savage!
+Tiger74147 Thug life.
Harsh words
We need this today especially because of all the hand holding that's happens today.
Tiger74147 Does that mean that Jadzia Dax was a pale copy of Curson Dax.
The shot you say to your friends when they catch you in a bad mood
I love Garak.
I appreciate the fact that she folded up and ugly cried. Too often characters are just too all powerful.
This was, genuinely, the scene where I came to appreciate Ezri as a separate character. It showed her overcoming her own self doubts and stepping out of Jadzia, and into Ezri. Do I still prefer Jadzia? Yes of course, but that's not because Ezri is a bad character. She just has to go through her S1 arc on the LAST season...
Because they didn't want to renew it ;(
In an emotional state, she trys to go somewhere quiet, then realizes that where she ended up was where she died the last time she was there, then just let's it all out.
I wish we got to hear Garak's opinion on counsellor Troi!
"Now get out of here. Before I say something...unkind..."
Garak's best line ever.
Carl Hicks Jr I have used that line... usually after I said something unkind
“Carl, there may be hope for you yet.”
Everyone talking about how savage Garak was here (which he was of course, rightfully so), and all I could really think of was how pronounced his neck and shoulder ridges (if that's the right word) seemed in this scene. They made Garak look like an aggravated cobra ready to strike. And in fact strike he did, but it was more of a warning strike.
I noticed that, too! think it helps that the camera angles reinforced the idea that he was both taller and stronger than Ezri, thus making her look smaller compared to him even though Andrew Robinson is only 5'10. I think they also had perfected his makeup by that point so the details stood out better, particularly in that shirt, which framed his neck ridges rather than covering them. Mmm... Neck ridges...
Deep Space Nine is the best Trek
So true.
To be fair to Ezri, which she doesn't deserve in this instance, we only knew Jadzia AFTER she was bonded, and she didn't have the bonding forced on her without warning, without the years of preparation Jadzia had.
There's only one episode where we really got to see Jadzia as herself, rather than bonded to Dax, and she was a much more vulnerable, uncertain girl than Ezri is here.
Ah, but you're misunderstanding what a Trill "is". They are, at their core, bound beings with dual personality. Seeing Jadzia's personality right after having lost her Trill would be like trying to talk to a man the day after he got his penis amputated. It's losing a part of oneself.
***** I know what a Trill is, and your metaphor would only make sense if a man was born without a penis, and got one grafted on later.
when someone tells you politely to fuck off, and you continue on provoking them, then yes you deserve the tongue lashing. she most certainly deserved it.
JamesMichaelDoyle What part of 'which she doesn't deserve' was unclear? I'm not coming at this as an advocate for Ezri, I'm just saying that Garak needs to be able to parse the host/symbiote disparity here, because technically part of Jadzia is in that room with him.
@@LabTech41 Oof
"spare me your psychobabble"
Meanwhile, projects his own frustration at being useless onto others.
Spare me your psychobabble
The funny thing is him venting probably helped him. So she accomplished what she set out to do.
@@DaDunge reverse psychology?
I think a phaser would have done less damage.
Every word he said was true. Jadzia was everything he said she was and Ezri is everything he said she is and held zero back. That is what made DS9 different. Troi, I think, would try to read his feelings and may be scared off!
You can't compare Ezri to Jadzia. Jadzia had extensive training on how to be a symbiont host. She was always confident in herself.
Ezri had no experience in being a joined Trill, she didn't even want to be a joined Trill, she was fresh the Academy. Still not sure about herself, or her place in the galaxy.
@@Locutus Of course not. I know.
I forgot how cute she was
She really is, shame she didn't have a personality more than "concerned innocence" it was kind of one dimensional.
Ow The Edge
agree
I never found her attractive in DS9. The uniform, the hair, never attractive.
Years later, she was far more attractive.
But she recently appeared on Lore Reloaded's channel looking fine.
By and large, Ezri Dax can be summed up as cute.
Its a good thing she got out of there before he said something unkind.
One of the reasons I really like this scene is that it's kind of a nod to the fans themselves - Garak is virtually repeating every fan complaint about a character who'd only been in the series (by this point) for about five episodes.
2Scribble 3 actually. And this was her first episode on DS9.
maybe first episode on the station but she had at least 2 episodes prior to this one.... she first appeared outside sisko's fathers place and then they spent another episode uncovering the orb, she didnt arrive on the station until sisko came back... so in this clip where she is clearly on the station thus it couldnt of been her first episode on the show.
terrey farrel made a good business decision to leave though
Matthew Kuba yeah, during negotiations for the last season she didn't like what she was offered. Some of the others could go and do other projects and stuff but she wasn't allowed. She had to take the deal or leave, so she left. Apparently it was all Rick Berman's fault
@@sarahkinsey5434
Solid recovery for DS9 though
What makes Garak's words so destructive in this scene is that he's speaking honestly....( a rarity for the character ) Garak of all people knows that honesty is very volatile and extremely potent.
A brutally honest statement is easily one of most destructive things you can say to another person. Most of us will put up our emotional shields once someone starts cursing, using slurs or making threats.. but honesty is something that we innately accept.. it's something that cuts to the core.
Use extreme caution when dispensing the truth. Unfiltered it can end careers, friendships, marriages, even lives.
This is why I have issues expressing my anger
So very true. Add to it all his emotional frailty at the time and you can see why he blew up. Poor guy.
Yeah i gotta work on that...
Yes. Good writers, right?
I would make an opposite suggestion - stop being a pussy and teach yourself to be capable of accepting honesty and truth of others.
That said, there are different ways of being honest and it, like any kind of communication, must be handled properly. TNG was heavily about this, Picard was the master of such communication and others were VERY good too.
Half the time Garak wasn't talking about Ezri, he was talking about himself.
TGGeko Ehh, I don't think this was really projection; just inherrent defense mechanisms at work.
Garak had a horrible life from childhood onwards and survived by both compartmentalizing his emotional scars and actively stopping anyone from getting near them.
His first line of defense when he's in full control is pleasant congeleality mixed with well fabricated lies to placate others (his spycraft training at work). If that fails (or if he's been made more vunerable by one of his flaws), he resorts to cruelty and biting critisism; typically using information he's built up of someone's psyche for maximum effect.
He *KNEW* Ezri had feelings of inadequacy as a host and used that to get her to back off.
Garak is usually talking about himself, under the guise of talking about other things. And when he wants to talk about other things, he does so by talking about other other things.
I thought he said to spare him your insipid psychobabble?
@@Mentatskillz I don't see him in this comment chain. Do you? :P
Precisely. He's a sociopath. That's what they fucking do.
at least he didnt say something unkind
Sisko in his quarters: “Hmm I wonder if it was a good idea sending Ezri to talk to Garak...oh well I’m sure she’s fine.”
I'm sure Sisko was thinking "What possible problem could Garak pose that Dax hasn't had to deal with in 8 lifetimes?"
@@volrag Sisko always overestimated how much Dax was Dax.
I love how you can tell he doesn't ACTUALLY mean it. He's thought of it for sure, but would never intentionally hurt a comrade (unless it meant for the greater good of Cardassia) because I do think he respects her. This is him doing an extremely human thing and venting all his rage and anger on ANYTHING but the real issue. We're all guilty of doing the same thing. it's also him talking about himself, again, an extremely human thing. GENIUS! AMAZING ACTING, DIRECTING, AND WRITING!
Absolutely this, and that's what makes it such an amazing character scene.
Yeah Garak knows people well enough to know what to say to hurt someone.
i kinda wish the series lasted a little longer so we could see a little more character development on ezri. ezri wasn't around till the last season so if the series lasted a season or two longer i bet we could see some more development in ezri and it wouldn't make her look and sound like a counselor who is a girly miss two shoes that really isn't starfleet material.
Ezri's welcome to DS9, home to aliens with broken childhoods and low-functioning personality disorders. First up: A lesson in frustrated love, rage and cruelty, as only a glassy-eyed Explosive Sadist can teach it.
at least he wasn't unkind.
@@GestapoPussyRanch
Garak always did have a gift for ironic understatement. This scene compares to the time years earlier when Bashir tried to help Garak and received a disillusioning diatribe for his trouble.
Jesus, Garak...
It just occurred to me...the first place Ezri went to have her cry was the same place Jadzia was killed.
I forget, was this before or after Garak was quivering neurotically in a Dominion prison lamenting how his daddy wasn't nice?
I kind of liked Ezri. Jadzia was always full of shit.
I really liked Ezri. She had some really tough shoes to fill, but I think they did a great job with her.
I disagree. She was a poor, "replacement," for Jadzia.
Umm ... What series were *you* watching, TheMythof Feminism?
Harsh, but unfortunately it did have to be said. Ezri ultimately grew up, but it took some time, and Garak probably helped her in the end.
Ultimately, they helped each other, even if it wasn't in a convenient little package
He was only hard on her because he knew she needed it.
Naaaaa-that is psycho babble. Garek was hardcore, uncensored truthful. He did hold back a little for her.
Problem with Ezri was that she was an ensign, fresh out of SF Medical... Usually they need to work under someone else's tutelage to become experience. She wasn't experienced.
@@Locutus In hindsight, I liked Ezri more than Jadzia. It took a while as I said, but in the end she was more grounded. Jadzia could be a raving narcissist at times.
@@petrus4 and Ezri was a raving narcissist all the time.
Hell, I'm not sure that her brother was guilty and not her for that Murder...
I love garak. that was SAVAGE
Garak WAS being kind--in his own way. Ezri needed to hear some pretty harsh truths about herself. What Garak told her was exactly how she was. He told her what she needed to hear.
He was talking to himself without realizing it.
No he didn't do it be kind. He did it because hurting her distracted him from his own suffering momentarily.
Man I don't remember Garek being so cruel. I mean give Ezri a break, she never had the training to be a symbiote. Damn Garek, I thought you were a good bad guy
it may be cruel but it was also all true and exactly what she needed to hear
Well, no more caffeine for you...
The thing is, he wasn't wrong about her. This was probably the turning point for her character, where she started to learn to make her own way.
She should have laughed, turned on her heel and while fondling a garment near the door retorted: "Why, youre just a big softie arent you Garak? [pause] You dropped a stitch here. Come see me when you want to talk." Then left.
@Roger Scott Cathey: heel* (not "heal") 🤔
@@pablohammerly448 : ah yes, thanks!
I think, in his own way, Garak was actually trying to help Ezri. But in a harsh dose of cold-reality type way. To make Ezri realise this was who she now was.
I think he was reliving his childhood.
So a Cardassian walks into a psychiatrist's office...
thatsthejoke.jpg
Sometimes the truth hurts. Torturous as it may be, she did need to hear that. Snaps her back into reality and out of Dax's 300 year arrogance.
What a shitty cry job. lol
I think DS9 has got to the only series I've watched where the guest stars were better than the main cast. Sure, you got Avery Brooks dropping the mic on every Sisko-centric episode, but you also got Max Grodénchik, Marc Alaimo, Jeffery Combs, and of course, Andrew Robinson blowing every scene they're in out of the sky and leaving everyone's jaw dropped. Even Tony Todd was freaking awesome in that ONE episode where he played the elder Jake Sisko.
The Visitor. Tony Todd was also strong as Kurn, Worf's disgraced and wayward brother.
You are so right about the guest actors. Academy Award winning Louise Fletcher (Kai Winn) was so perfectly aggravating, and along with Dukat, was a chief antagonist through all 7 seasons. William Sadler as Luther Sloan? Wallace Shawn as Grand Nagus Zek? Even Brock Peters as Joseph Sisko? Martok, Damar, Nog, Bariel, Cassidy, Eddington? The list could go on and on.
288theabe The guest actor who singlehandedly sold me on DS9 was Harris Yulin in "Duet."
Not really guest actors, since they appear multiple times. More like recurring actors.
If you are a main cast member on star trek, that is what your career will always be. I think by the time TNG was around, every actor knew that star trek was a career defining move that you weren't going to get away from. Ever. So I think you get actors that have already topped out in terms of talent and have gone as far as they can in Hollywood. Avery Brooks was semi-retired and teaching classes when he got the Sisko role. Being a star trek captain isn't a bad thing to have your career come down to (hence you got real talent in the form of Stewart, Avery, and Mulgrew), but "Space Shrink on the step-child TNG spin off" isn't. You might get a payday, but you're typecast from here on out. Hence the problem with post TNG era shows having shit (at the very least, very uneven levels of acting talent) acting from most of the cast, you've got to settle for subset of actors that are ok going to conventions and being a part of star trek for the rest of their lives. But anyone can guest star without getting typed cast, plus acting in star trek is probably pretty fun the first few times you do it, hence you get a lot A+ talent in the guest spots.
Garak had more "scales?" in this episode on his neck/shoulders in this scene than usual if that is the correct term. I watched his last scene with Bashir in the finale, they were back to normal. There is normally one layer from the shoulder then smooth, he has 3 layers in this scene.
Cardassians supposedly regrow neck scales all their lives. I think they conveyed that.
It also makes him look tense and aggressive, which he is. Like a cobra, ready to strike with the debilitating venom of harsh honesty
Farrell was a very limited actress. She had a nice face but that was not enough to hold her for more than 2 or 3 seasons. She was boring. Ezri was bright, young, funny. Finally some lightness in deep space. I wish she was there earlier. So we could see her mature to a fine woman. I think she's adorable.
“Spare me your insipid psychobabble.”
I’m stealing that line
I have used that one a few times my self
Bro don’t say that in real life you’ll sound like a redditor you are not garak
That's not Ezri vs Garak.
That's Garak destroys Ezri!
Damn, that was like 8 burns in less than 1 minute... An octoburn ladies and gentlemen.
...aaaand she hides in the place Jadzia was murdered. When it rains...
"I'm about to end this trill's whole career" - Garak
Sometimes you need to break a bone in order for it to heal properly.
reading these comments, i'd like to point out garrak is the only one who did her a solid, here and when she felt incapable, he gave her that push
no one else, she doubted herself, was probably the only person who hadn't come to terms with the fact shes in the effective middle of a warzone
then we have garrak who points this out to her, in the only way really that was gonna help. when he gets oddly uncharactaristically upset about the deaths of fellow cardassians cause of his work decoding whatever it was, comms? he, a former obsiandian order member, who killed a great many, who just a year earlier blew up a romulan ambassador if it was nothing.
he knows fine well what hes saying and why hes saying it to her.
find the full of this and i beleive the next episode, he has this oddly satisfied smile at the end after ezri starts coming around
Man Garak really must have wanted to mate with Ezri bad.
Garak was right, he has ALOT of baggage to unload and this ..thing.. calling herself Dax is nowhere near qualified to help him. Deanna Troi would have a hard time getting Garak fixed even after years. She did what most would figure her to do in that situation, run off and cry in a corner because someone was mean to her.
Garak wasn't wrong. "Cast first the beam from thine own eye, that you might see clearly to pluck the speck from they brother's eye."
1:35 Wow. Garak really knew Jadzia.
Garak looks buff as hell in this scene
Sticks and Stones might break bones...but Garak weilds words like a quantum torpedo
Yeah Garrick the person who has the Memories and experience of several people in her head couldn’t possibly start to understand what you are going through
Yes, Garak tears Ezri to shreds here, but that’s not what I love about this scene. When he says “I KNEW Jadzia, she was vital, alive, she owned herself”, he truly respected Dax, even though they never had an obvious on-screen friendship.
DS9 to Fans: Garak is savage as fuck. Just in case you forgot.
Cutest chick in all of star trek.
This is nice Garak.
You don't want to see mad Garak.
Poor little girl...Garak was a mess then, and took it out on her when she was also feeling vulnerable. It wasn't typical of Garak, he always seemed to be nice to the innocent. As for what people have said about his employing torture as a spy, I wonder if he really did. His style of torture was once described as breaking someone down by just staring at them for 3 hours, and his apparent eagerness to do the interrogations might have simply been to spare them the much more horrid experience of other interrogators. When he had to go along in torturing Odo, he hated it and agonized with him, and they bonded afterwards. He has a heart and doesn't normally like hurting people. And he as well as all the others were grieving over the loss of Jadzia. So far, I'm halfway through the 7th season, so there may be more to him than I know. Came to the series just recently
I feel bad for Ezri. She's probably in her early 20s and has to perform such heavy duties without proper training. Plus this rude guy Garak.
That's garack telling her to clean her room.
Garak always falls on the floor after shouting. It's his spy body's defense mechanism, preventing him from making too much noise.
He should have skipped the pleasantries and just said something unkind. He was far to kind, a real Dax would have the fire and conviction to earn the respect of the fork tongued tailor.
He's like House: You think he can be rude or abrasive, but just wait until something actually upsets him