Buffy the Vampire Slayer 2x14 'Innocence' Reaction!!
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- WELL, THERE IT IS. THE RPG HAPPENED AND WITHOUT MIKE!?! That was the best thing to happen so far, in terms of action!!!
Poor Buffy :(
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0:00 Intro
0:55 Reaction
20:50 Discussion - Фільми й анімація
I think it’s important to note that it isn’t necessarily the sex that removed Angel’s soul. It was the contented bliss of finally having been with the woman he loves, holding her, at peace. I find that even sadder, tbh
Mike missing the rocket launcher episode breaks my heart 😂😂
First thing I said when I saw the thumbnail 😆...
@@AshLee92490Ditto! 🤣
He wanted to see it live. So he proclaimed an ‘emergency’ and went to sunnydale. 🙃
Watching Buffy have her heart surgically removed by Angelus and laughingly chopped into pieces is one of the singularly most brutal things ever filmed.
SMG is a raw nerve and Boreanz is pure malice.
Oz revealed as the Playa President.
The Slayer coldly arming the AT-4: click, click, snap, whir....
Giles' magnificent support for Buffy in the car.
Buffy letting the candle burn.
This is where the show enters Legend.
"most brutal things ever filmed" so far.
Cause ya....this is Buffy.
@@PromptCriticalJello LOL, yep.
Something to note- the judge said Spike and Drusilla “reek of humanity” and that Angelus has none. And David Boreanaz is SO good at portraying Angelus! Also, Ms. Calendars people did not lift the curse. The curse was broken by Angel having a moment of true happiness. I agree with you guys on Oz. He’s so smooth!! Cordelia is a queen and always there to help. I love that her character development isn’t immediate and that she still has her personality and just says whatever pops into her head. Over 20 or so episodes you’ve seen her go from a mean girl to someone who is publicly with the Scoobs on a regular basis and will do whatever they need.
I’m so freakin excited to see your reactions for the rest of the series! It only gets better from here! 💜
The Judge uses his powers on Angelous so that we know that it's not Angel acting evil to try to trick Spike and Dru.
Without getting into details, in his first episode, Spike called Angel his sire.
The smoking woman Angel ate was Sophia Crawford, SMG's stunt double.
spike's specific line was, "you were my sire man! you were my yoda!" you can't ignore the second part of that when interpreting what he's saying. yoda never was anyone's father, but he was a father figure to luke.
@sirmoonslosthismind Things do eventually get explained, so I'm just restating what has been established so far.
Thanks for the info about Sophia. One more thing learned.
It's interesting that the Judge called out Dru and Spike for having humanity in them, whereas Angelus (without a soul) has none. It proves that there are variations in the degree of evil between different vampires, even though they are all soulless demons.
“The two things that matter the most to me: emotional resonance and rocket launchers. Party of Five, a brilliant show, and often made me cry uncontrollably, suffered ultimately from a lack of rocket launchers.” - Joss Whedon
David Boreanaz really kept his cards hidden until he needed to reveal his real acting chops . Angelus is truly terrifying .
He acted perfectly as 'good' Angel. He did exactly what the character was supposed to be. It's what makes his work as 'evil' Angel so great.
"You couldn't have known what would happen," Giles tells Buffy, and it's what makes Jenny not saying anything that much more frustrating. Even Angel didn't know there was a catch to the curse.
I like that you pointed out that David was doing a good job acting--he really shines as Angelus and it's that which made Joss believe he could carry a show on his own. He seems to have a lot more fun with this version of the role, understandably.
Jenny didn't know that there was a clause to the curse either. Like she said, and like what we saw with her covenversations with her uncle, she didn't know what would happen. She was only there to just watch and make sure that the curse was still making Angel suffer because that was the whole purpose of giving him the soul in the first place...
The curse of Angel did make him feel emotions/guilt because the curse gave him a soul. The curse was broken because with Buffy that night he had happiness, and Ms. Calender had nothing to do about breaking the curse. Ms. Calendar was there to make sure that Angel kept feeling guilty and for that she try to kept Buffy and Angel apart.
As the uncle tried to explain, the soul was only to make him suffer from guilt and be miserable, like an eternal hell. It was not to enable him to live as a human. Buffy was the first to make him feel the full human experience with the love and happiness from having the close relationship.
@@gungho1284 The dumb thing about this curse is the human and demon are different people, it would have been better if the happiness thing breaking the curse didn't exist, cause that would make the demon suffer more lol.
@@Heldemon They just want vengeance even if it's targeting an innocent man
You guys have no idea how shook we were when this aired on tv. The first of the two parter took place on a Monday when Buffy aired and since they were launching a new night - part two came out the next day on Tuesday where it continued for sometime. We were like wtf is happening with Angel ?!? This really is a Turning point for the series to expect the unexpected. And it goes from a good show to a great show.
"I prefer Evil Angel to nice Angel." So say we all!
Joe wanting to crawl into his own skin while "trying" to watch the scene when Buffy sees Angel(Angelus) back at his place was great! And Mikey getting all excited about hopefully seeing the rocket launcher was funny and I couldn't wait for him to actually see Buffy with it because he was gonna lose hit shit. Sorry Mike couldn't be here but hope to hear his reactions
Both of you averting your eyes at 7:30 was relatable. Such a brutal scene - I wanted to be somewhere else when that played out. Ugh!
The judge was actually played by Brian Thompson, the same actor who played Luke, the Master's second in command.
We can actually see the moment Willow falls in love with Oz.
Just Willow or the entire audience?
@@lance9249 Well, we can only see Willow. We just know that the entire audience is doing the same thing. 😀
As famous last words go, "What's that do?" are right up there!
I don't think Cordy and Xander "did it" - because they "only needed 5 minutes" and they were there to get the weapon and go. No time for hanky panky. But in general, they aren't acting like they are at that point yet, and I think the show would give us a bigger clue if/when that happened.
Agreed. They knew they were on the clock and yes, they're still at the making out stage.
Fun fact: Giles takes off his glasses when he’s uncomfortable LOL
This was hilarious. Mikey was about to explode waiting to see that RPG! 🤣
Great review. The one disadvantage that present day reviewers have is the immediate abilities to see what is coming and have no day to day build up. In the weeks before Innocence the show was getting big coverage in the teen and young adult magazine world. David Boreanaz/ Angel was becoming a heartthrob for 13- 25 year old girls.Because he was so loved, every girl was incredibly concerned when Surprise ended on Monday night. The questions and anticipation for the first Tuesday night show was intense. I went to my first Buffy party with seven 15-16 year old girls. After Angel stands up, bites the woman , and then blows out the smoke…. I was the only boy there and I physically felt shock and disbelief in that room. No one today can understand the lighting strike that took place. In less than an hour, a beloved , desired, and teen idol became a villain and one that is evil. The hopes of is Angel faking, it’s a trick, it’s not real we’re all that was talked about until…. The scene with Buffy. You covered your eyes but I was around 7 crushed, I mean CRUSHED, girls. It was at that moment that BTVS became part of the souls of millions and a part of life. The stages that Buffy goes through in the episode is how every girl I know felt and experienced. When Buffy gets out the bazooka , every girl released their sadness and cheered. Then the fight with Angel. Seven girls that were in love with Angel started to encourage Buffy to kill him. I don’t think I have ever been around a group of smart and decent girls so happy when Buffy kicks Angel in the balls. When the show started , Buffy was an exciting show that was cool and fun. It all changed in 1 hour. Giles became the #1 male role model, Oz was the coolest cat, you can’t trust anyone, and Buffy was us. Every emotion, feeling, action … it all touched us like no other entertainment show or movie had. Every girl understood being happy, sad, powerful, weak, vulnerable, and enduring pain was apart of BTVS and it was true to us. Think how you feel after this episode and go back 26 years to a society that was unprepared and open to learning. If you wonder why this simple show has such a commitment from the audience, you can start here.
Thank you for your reactions. Welcome to the Buffyverse and hope you enjoy the ride
well said.
Well put and you were lucky to be witness to basically a Buffy focus group. I bet you all became regular viewers after that if you weren't already.
Brilliant summation, and so accurate to. My experience of watching this live. I was never a Bangel girlie, but my heartbreak for BUFFY’S heartbreak was so immediate.
@@ScottKornfeldOn the mark. We stopped in Sunnydale for an hour that night and none of us left. I went to an all boys school and for me and every non jock, girls were an insolvable mystery. Our sister school bused some girls over to help cheer our baseball team in a big game against our #1 rival. I heard some girls behind me talking about Buffy( the never Kill A Boy On The First Date episode) and I joined in. I was the only guy I knew that watched, even heard of , Buffy. That conversation, watching Buffy, and starting real conversations with real girls changed my High School years. I stay in contact with those girls( all successful women) and the starting point for my great High School experience was Buffy Summers . Innocence made it emotional and after we started to talk about so much more .
Poor Mike... All right, boys, say hi to Angelus.
25:11 miss calendar isn't "not good" she just kept a secret. her mission was to keep them apart so angel would not lose his soul and turn back evil. that's not a bad thing. well she didn't exactly know why but she knew she was working against the evil demon inside angel in some way. that's on the side of good regardless of her not knowing the details. they're hurt about the secrecy not her actual motives or what she was doing being bad. i'm sure they would agree that angel staying with a soul is better. all the more annoying that she didn't just tell them really. although for most of the times the writers hadn't written it into her character to be honest.
Someday someone will give Giles the talk about he birds and the bees. And Oz! Yes!
16:16 Oz so smooth even they got turned on 👀
Terrific reaction to this show-changing episode. Of course, I missed Mike but LOL at your anticipation of Mike missing the rocket launcher moment. Too much good stuff happens in this episode to name all but I'm glad you called out SMG and David Boreanaz on their excellence. The show has built up Angelus as a terrifying villain and the first impression of him here does not disappoint. Really looking forward to your future reactions (and Mike's return).
Angel/Angelus, before the human soul suppressed the demon, but as you noticed, it did not happened during climax, it was after, when Angel was "fully content" nothing the demon did before haunted him, he was perfectly at peace beside Buffy and BAAM, gone, only demon left in the meatsack.....David came from modelling to this job i think, so he doing a really good job.....Buffy, Sarah, comes from day time soups, which is why she is so excellent at emotional scenes
soaps?
@@Belnick6666 Soup's good too. ;)
And yes, Oz is ozsome. As I said before, he is my 3rd favorite charachter in the whole series, after Buffy and Giles.
Poor Mike is going to miss the one thing he was waiting for
Surprise and Innocence originally aired on consecutive days. Season 1 and Season 2 up until Surprise first aired on Mondays, and then Buffy aired on Tuesday evenings for the rest of its run. The two episodes also ran during "Sweeps Week," which was a big thing in the pre-streaming era. So this pair of episodes was heavily hyped to alert viewers to the cahnge of day for the series and to boost sweeps week ratings.
Every time one of you says "the Big Bad" I get a little tingle because that term comes from this show
I don't think the point is that the rocket launcher isn't forged. Buffy's crossbow is likely not forged either, as well as her stake. My guess is that the Judge is still alive, he is just split again in so many pieces, there is no chance of him being reassembled again. Buffy kinda confirmed that, saying in the episode she is not sure if he is dead and instructing other Scoobies to collect the pieces and keep them apart.
BTW, the original script had Buffy driving a tank.
Xander wins best present ever 😉
True. Xander saved the world a lot for no powers the guy some comes in clutch
Now you know we always kept saying that form Mid S2 onwards this show really takes off. This episode Innocence along with preceding episode Surprise are where the show changed. I think this is the best episode by far up until this point, but believe it or not there are two more episodes in this Season that surpass this! There are so many reveals and jaw dropping scenes coming up, but this episode Innocence definitely a Top 20 from the whole series of 144 episodes. Here we now know that Angel has changed into Angelus, where the Gypsy curse has come to pass. Buffy realising that Miss Calendar was behind it was a great scene where she grabs her by the throat in the classroom. There are so many brilliant scenes it this it is hard to pinpoint any. The pain Buffy feels when Angel is talking about her losing her virginity and sexual performance is just so hard to watch. 'Innocence' of course also refers to Willow who is devastated to see Xander kiss Cordelia, and you can also see the 'Innocence' of her budding relationship with Oz. The rocket launcher scene in the mall is epic. Strap in for the ride there is even better to come! BTW the actor who plays Jenny's uncle is the late Vincent Schiavelli who was in lots of famous films from 70s onwards including the Bond Film Tomorrow Never Dies, and yes he was in the cult Humbug episode of the X-Files also.
Reading this I just realized. Innocent means not guilty. So when Angel loses his soul he also loses all feelings of and capacity for guilt. Ironically, Angelus is in a state of innocence, guilt less.
Listen. The judge literally put his hand on the guy and said he's clean. He can't be cleansed. He's not human and you're not convinced. I mean, come on now, wake up and smell the daisies.
And it it was Buffy's fault.🫢
One thing that gets me about this episode is when angel is in pain due his soul being taken, he has time to put clothes on !😂
The world is not ready for David Boreanaz 'full Monty'.
@@PromptCriticalJello 😂🤞
6:15 OOP! there it is! and wow, Willow is really hurt!
7:49 Yikes!! Angelus is malicious!
15:17 Great line!!
15:55 can anyone say emotional intelligence?! wow!
27:10 I thought they had said Angelus was Spikes sire, but after parusing the Buffy Wiki, I have to admit I was wrong. Joe is wrong too, Drusilla is older than Spike. (Spike being turned to a Vampire in the year 1880, Drusilla was sired in the year 1860.)
The Moment I saw the Blue guy with bony protrusions in the last episode I knew this was the thing with the RPG
I'm missing Mike's reaction to these episodes. Hopefully he tells us how he felt about them when he comes back.
The rocket launcher scene is one of my favorites of the entire show. This 2 Parter is so epic and the acting is top notch.
I love your reactions to these episodes even the tough parts which there are a lot of them. I'm so glad i found this channel
Great reaction guys! This 2 part was killer. 😍
Sad times Mike missing the big moment
How can Mike miss the most important episode of Season 2??
"oh boy..."
You’re here 🎉
This episode always reminds me of this song; from Wikipedia:
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"If I Had a Rocket Launcher" is a song by Canadian singer-songwriter Bruce Cockburn, from his 1984 album Stealing Fire.
The song was inspired by Cockburn's visit, sponsored by Oxfam, to Guatemalan refugee camps in Mexico following the counterinsurgency campaign of dictator Efraín Ríos Montt. Although Cockburn had occasionally touched on political themes in his earlier songs, "If I Had a Rocket Launcher" was his first explicitly political song to be released as a single, and earned him a new reputation as an outspoken musical activist.
In the song, Cockburn despairs of waiting for a political solution to the crisis, and expresses the desire to take matters into his own hands. Each verse ends with a line stating what Cockburn would do if he had a rocket launcher: in the first verse, "I'd make somebody pay". In the second, "I would retaliate". In the third, "I would not hesitate". The fourth and final verse ends with the song's most famous and controversial lyric: "If I had a rocket launcher, some son-of-a-bitch would die".
In a later interview, Cockburn stated that the song "is not a call to arms; this is a cry."
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I always wondered if one of the writers was thinking of this song while they worked on this episode...
Mikey knowing any spoiler just turns him into such a spaz lol
Love the content, keep it up guys! This episode is really where the show turns on the jets and it just keeps climbing from here and getting more consistent with bangers including some of the best television ever made, stuff that's never been repeated or surpassed, and stuff that's inspired countless things you've seen.
Almost to 5K!
See... Jenny was victim of her watcher's role 💔
Forged by a blacksmith or swordsmith is different from being produced on an industrial assembly line obviously…the show has not changed. this is what everything has been leading up to in the novel that is Buffy the Vampire Slayer…and yes, it is, as they tell us happiness that leads Angel to lose his soul. Sex simply gives Angel a happy...
Buckle up boys....
Hey Mike, you picked the 2 worst episodes to miss!
For me, this is when the show finds it's footing.
8:56 BARS !! 🤣
ps: was the chokehold really necessary Buffy ? 13:13 miss Calendar saved Willow , remember
Spike said, back in “School Hard”, when talking to Angel, “You were my sire, my Yoda”. Pretty sure I mentioned back then that he didn't mean either of those things literally. I mean, Angel as a green goblin, come on.
Well....
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Angel does turn into a puppet.
So, Imma clear up the common misconception. It's easy to think this is a case of a prophecy loophole, like that thing where a villain is all "no man can defeat me" and a woman shows up and is all "I am no man". People often see the rocket launcher and are all "ah, technically that thing wasn't 'forged'".
It's not a matter of technicality or loophole. The Judge was just wrong. He thought that he couldn't be killed by any human weapons, but that's because he was sealed away thousands of years ago and had no idea what kind of weapons humans have built since then.
The Judge isn't dead. Just disassembled.
The Scoobie Gang is picking up the pieces and keeping them apart. I assume Giles will be contacting someone to disperse the parts in the remotest places on earth so the next person with an apocalypse agenda will have more trouble finding them than the nightmare of putting that jigsaw puzzle together.
@@PromptCriticalJello Separate safety deposit boxes and throw away the keys?
@@visarr Until the FBI raids the place and dumps everything on the floor together.
a lot of people misunderstand the curse, both in-universe and out. viewers wonder why angel feeling contentment would result in the loss of his soul, when that's not what happens. the *suffering* is the curse. angel is cursed to suffer; the soul is just an implementation detail. when buffy alleviates angel's suffering, *she* defeats the curse.
Am I the only one who think that the Romani curse is pretty stupid? Returning Angel's soul to punish him and making him suffer for what he did seems pointless. At this point in the show, we are told that when you become a vampire, a demon takes possession of your body but it is not you anymore. So basically, Angel is being punished for something he didn't do and the real perpetrator of the crimes of Angelus is not. We have no way of knowing if the demon Angelus does suffer from this (after all it has no guilt whatsoever so he doesn't care that Angel suffers).
And the rest doesn't make sense either. Why Angel must lose his soul if he ever achieve perfect happiness? I mean it only makes sense if it is to make sure that he doesn't because Angel will be afraid of losing his soul and will avoid any emotion or any situation in which he could be happy. But he is not aware of that. He doesn't know this could happen. Why Jenny's people didn't warn him of that if they wanted him to continue to suffer? It's obvious that, by not telling him it could happen, the risk exists that Angel will eventually loose his soul. And, by doing so, will be able to kill again and become again the monster they wanted to punish. It doesn't make sense to me...
Great reaction to Angel losing his soul... just before the hooker dies. Just not the right reason behind him losing his soul. By the way, for some reason it amused me that Mikey was wondering who the streetwalker was. For the record, she is played by Sarah Michelle Geller's (Buffy's) stunt double. It did not beat the excitement over Willow, Oz, Xander, and Cordelia showing up at the base or the (somewhat cutoff) reaction of the rocket launcher itself.
Think about the fact that Angelus cannot be burned, but Drusilla and Spike can. That is the kind of evil we're dealing with concerning Angelus.
Here's how miscommunication, both in the show and in real life happens over Angel's soul loss-age, happens: Giles wonders what triggered Angel losing his soul, which instantly makes Buffy assume it was sex. When Buffy confronts Jenny, she states "it was me," to which Jenny replies "I think so." Neither Buffy or Jenny is wrong, but what Jenny didn't know was that Buffy was blaming herself directly for the sex, and what Jenny knew was that Enyos recently informed her, "Angel was meant to suffer. Not to live as human. One moment of true happiness, of contentment..." then he finishes by clarifying himself in saying, "...One moment where the soul that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is taken from him." The group believe happiness by sex at the end of the episode because Jenny tells the Scoobies the belief Giles unintentionally put in Buffy's head. The real cause was that when Angel no longer feels guilt he loses his soul. That is what Enyos's quote boils itself down to. In this particular instance, Buffy made Angel happy enough to not feel guilt. But anything could make him not feel guilty enough to lose his soul. It didn't have to be happiness. And it wasn't the sex, because they were lying in bed for a while afterwards when he started feeling the soul going. So, Jenny told Buffy the truth when she said it was Buffy, and Buffy was right when she said it was her, but the details were off, which caused confusion for in-universe characters , as well as fans.
Also nothing says it was a choice by the gypsies to put the "guilt loss/happiness in the original curse (and they definitely didn't take the curse off him). I believe it was just as much a stipulation of Angel's curse as true love's kiss was to Snow White and Sleeping Beauty/Aurora. But that doesn't mean people like Enyos care about Buffy, either. As far as he's concerned she helped bring on the release of Angel's soul and "vengeance is served" against her in the form of Angelus.
If Willow wants to be upset that Xander doesn't like her, I understand, but to be angry that he didn't choose her when she didn't ask him out (and there are moments before this episode that clue her into him not reciprocating), that I cannot get behind. He has a right kiss Cordelia, even if Willow doesn't like it, and I dislike Willow saying "gross emotional problems," "against all laws of god and man," "you'd rather be with someone you hate than be with me," and any other such rude lines after being shown he doesn't reciprocate. There's a difference between being angry and upset. Angry is a toxic reaction. Being upset is a healthy reaction. Personally, I think having a club about hating someone is no better than Cordelia does to Willow in S1. And Cordelia, in-universe, hasn't been doing any bullying for eight months. Willow and Xander's club is just a different type of said bullying (but bullying nonetheless), whether Cordelia knows about the club or not. I love the fact that Oz calls her out on making Xander jealous by saying its on the "empty side." It's something Willow needed to hear in a way only Oz could say it.
On th DVD Special Feature, the director stated he originally wrote the scene where Angelus was mean to Buffy while pretending to be Angel with them in Buffy's front yard and with Angelus in a big coat. The scene wasn't working, so they filmed the scene with Buffy and Giles at the end, and those were real tears of Sarah Michelle Gellar being upset that she couldn't get the "Angelus is mean" scene right. When they re-filmed it, it was after the director made the realization of the scene needing to be in Angel's house next to the bed they had sex in with Angelus getting dressed, rather than on Buffy's front lawn wearing a giant coat.
I said in the last episode Jenny can't really win because she is bogged down by her gypsy heritage and her ties to The Scoobies. What I think about the result on The Scoobies side is that angry at her or not, she's the only tie to the curse they have. Cutting off that avenue isn't the smartest move, whether you agree with the decision or not.
I understand why Buffy couldn't kill Angelus, but not containing him never made sense. She kicked him in the nuts and walked away. To some degree whatever he does afterwards is on her.
16:51 Well... if you hate it, why did you spoil it?
It was actually Mike who brought it up
@@732ReviewCrewOh, right. My mistake, sorry.
Angel did sire Spike too.
You were my sire. You were my Yoda.
In School Hard
That was essentially Spike saying you were like a father to me. Not spike acknowledging that Angle turned him into a vampire.
@@PromptCriticalJello The sire part definitely was. Well at least when they said it then.
1st!