Hey all! Unfortunately for these next two episodes Mike was very sick and could not make it for recording this day...we didn't know the topic of these episodes until too late! Apologies but things also happen and we keep moving! We try to have everyone for the reactions but if we need to record, we record with 2/3 of us available. We hope you understand! -Mikey
It would help, however in events someone can't make it but 2 are around we keep going for our patreon viewers who pay. I've watched a few channels and they do this too. 3 is preferred always but illness and emergencies happen and as they do we keep going
This is the episode where we truly learn how evil Angelus is. We've been told multiple times he was bad, he was evil, he was the "most vile creature I ever knew," but here, we see it viscerally. Also, Angels "O" face when he sees Buffy and Willow balling in tears over learning of Jenny's death. This was the episode that I truly understood that Angel was an emotional sadist.
Wow, someone sure is missing all the important episodes! There was just a Hellmouth convention held at the Torrance high school location and Robia LaMorte , who played Jenny, was doing photos with the fans in front of that window! So many good times at that place. 😆
Welcome to the Whedonverse, where a character's value is not measured in how much the audience enjoys them, it is measured in how devastated we will be when they die.
The reason this feels like a Valentines Day episode is because this was originally written to be the Valentines Day episode, but SMG was hosting SNL, so they had to push it back a week. And we got the Xander episode instead.
Just when you think it couldn't get worse, or Angelus could be any more vile...he gives that slow, deliciously satisfied smile at Buffy's grief... Whedon and Boreanz created a monster for the ages.
The writers had Angel snap Jenny's kneck to show the audience that Jenny was truly dead and never coming back. Even so, so many people were convinced that she is coming back, that she is a vampire somehow, because people are so attached to her that they couldn't process her death. We all went into denial with grief. GRR Martin learned how to kill off important and beloved characters from Joss Whedon.
Great reaction to a series changing episode. In 1998, all of my girl friends were still suffering from Angel whiplash. It’s hard to explain how popular he was before Innocence and how confused the fans, especially the girls, were now. Before this episode everyone hoped they could “ get Angel back”. ( I heard it so much for a month it was sickening). But not after Passion. We forget that Angelius brutally kills a girl to start the episode. What happen over the next hour was startling. Jenny Calender was super popular and besides Willow a big favorite. When this show ended my phone just kept ringing. Every girl friend called and it went like this…. Sobbing… I cant beleive Miss Calendar is dead…. I hate Angel…. Buffy needs to kill that bastard. Angel went from a desired heartthrob to a SOB in just a few weeks. This episode changed millions of people and let us all understand that no one is safe and that there is no bottom to where this show will take its viewers. This stayed with us for a long time and the emotions for many were never repaired. Finally, Joyce. Would you allow your daughter to go out at night to fight supernatural forces in a life and death struggle? What would Joyce say? “ Good luck Buffy. Hope you have a good slaying and it will be great if are you alive in the morning?”
I think up until S2 episode Innocence, it was the best episode so far. However this is where the show went into overdrive. Passion is a superb episode which had absolutely everything, and very much a top ten episode from the whole series. The plot really thickens here with Jenny trying to get the way to restore Angel's soul, but Angelus is too strong and clever and foils her attempt with her brutal and shocking murder of a main character. Superb atmospheric narration from David Boreanaz at the start and end of the episode explaining Passion itself. The bit where Giles see's Jenny in the bed lifeless is so cruel, as is Angelus looking in through the window at Buffy and Willow crying, pure evil. The writing here was excellent as we build up to the Season finale with this incredible arc of Season 2. You can really see here how brilliant the Series has now become heading towards a fantastic Season Finale. The ending where the computer disk falls in between the desk is so well done. Superb writing and brilliant acting. Passion is I think a top ten episode from the whole Series.
This is definitely when the show went into overdrive. Up till this point I had only watch maybe one or 2 episodes but I caught this and was immediately hooked
I'm sorry Mike missed the group reaction. Your 3-person-dynamic is always fun, but I mostly hope he is feeling better. Still enjoyed your 2-person review of this heavy and powerful episode. RIP Jenny Calendar,, you will be miss.
Mike seems to have a talent for missing the most important and best episodes! Maybe that can be an indicator in the future? Whenever Mike misses an episode, you can be sure that it will be a great one! Anyway, get better soon, Mike!
"This was mad depressing, but the ones that hit your emotions the best are the depressing ones. Those are the ones that make you feel something." (Mikey) Couldn't have said it better myself. Spoken like a true BtVS fan. 👍😊
Before I start watching, feel better Mike! Lighting candles and using magical charms to make sure he's there for the two part finale! Now on to the reaction.
Feel better Mike! I would love for Mikey and Joe to ask his opinion on this episode on screen, when he's feeling better please. The episode where everything Angel said about what he did to Drusilla is proven to be true about him. 2:00-2:06 The problem is Angel is just as much like that as Angelus with the stalker watching Buffy behavior. He can claim to be doing it to help Buffy and have better boundries than Angelus, but it was creepy even before Angelus came along. Telling Buffy he would be doing so to help and make sure she was safe wouldn't even take the creepy ick factor out of it for Angel. Giles telling Buffy not to tell her mom the truth, but not offering an alternative over Buffy's worries doesn't lend the _don't tell your mom_ action any merit. And the problem with Buffy staying elsewhere is that Angelus isn't after Buffy. He's after those around Buffy she cares about, as Angel said he did to Drusilla to start driving her insane, which is why Giles advice about "ignore him and he'll go away" is so bad. What excuse would Buffy give to Joyce to get her to stay somewhere else (that wouldn't get the law [or someone else not in the know] involved and thus killed) that would be better than the truth? To me, that is not actually a question that can be answered. It is a rhetorical question. Xander is also right that Buffy is the "watchers pet." I fiind it odd that Willow fed the fish that weren't there without noticing they were gone or looking for them. It actually does add cadence to the idea that they hadn't bonded yet, as she states to Buffy. It seems like Giles lets Buffy dictate his relationship with Jenny. When Buffy's upset at Jenny, Giles breaks up with her and when Buffy starts getting over it and talks to Jenny, Giles starts mending the _get back together_ bridge. I don't feel he was upset with Jenny so much as I feel he allowed Buffy being upset to dicate his actions about the relationship. Angelus is toying with Jenny by saying the latin sign invited him in. A school is a public building he would have access to anyway. He also toys with her by running right at the cleaning cart, so he can surprise her by going up the back way and surprise her from behind. I'm not a hundred percent sure the car invitation is an actual thing unless a person lives in it. I always theorized Cordelia was being dramatic because she didn't know, and the group didn't correct her as they thought it'd be too much work to deal with an overdramatic Cordelia. 15:34-15:36 Giles said he did, one scene earlier, but we didn't see the actual invitation happen. The look on Buffy's face as Angelus watches her get the news of Jenny's death is the whole point of what Angelus is doing. Xander's speech about saying he deserves something for saying he told them so before Angelus did anything to any of them, states he is blaming Angel for things Angelus did before Angel became Angelus. That's jealousy. If he wants to blame Angelus for Angelus things, there isn't a problem with that, but bringing his Angel jealousy into Angelus' wrongdoings downgrades his point into jealousy of Angel instead of hatred for Angelus' actions, making his point less valid than it should be. The school's higher ups are cheap and corrupt enough to exploit a willing student aka Willow into breaking the law and teaching classes so they don't have to higher anyone. Jenny Calender was going to die no matter what (Angelus' in-universe logic). It wasn't about a trade off with Buffy's mom surviving. It was about Drusilla's visions figuring out she was a threat with Angel's soul restoration being in progress. To me, disregarding Angel because of what Angelus does is the same as disregarding Xander for what the hyena did while in his body. The situations are definitly different, but Xander's face still nearly raped Buffy and Angelus is admittedly, by in-universe charactes, not the same as Angel, but both characters have two sets of faces (good and evil) under the circumstances. So I cannot say I would distrust Angel because of Angelus' actions anymore than I would Xander for the hyena.
Loved your reaction. Such a powerful, heart-breaking, near perfect episode. The show had told us how evil Angelus was but it then successfully demonstrates, and boy did it. Many if not most shows would have ended with the shock of Jenny's murder but here we see the emotional consequences and they hurt just as much. Joe is right, that the death is more than shocking, it feels very real. And as great as this episode is, IMO there is even better to come.
One bit of trivia Jenny was originally not supposed to be the one killed by Angelus. But for some reason or another she decided to or had to leave the show and Oz who was the one who was supposed to get killed ended up having extended availability to stay on the show so they swapped Angelus killing Oz this episode for Angelus killing Jenny instead.
I LOVED your reaction! Back in the day when this first aired it broke my heart and I knew that this episode was going to break your hearts as well! This demonstrates exactly how cruel and evil and devious Angelus really is. But yes, remember that Angel and Angelus are two separate "people". I don't know if you guys are Marvel fans, but someone wrote an interesting article comparing Bucky Barnes vs The Winter Soldier to Angel vs Angelus. When Captain America (Steve) told Bucky that "you know, all those things that you've done, that wasn't YOU" and then Bucky said: "I know, BUT I still DID it". And Tony Stark couldn't forgive Bucky for killing his (Iron Man's) parents. I'm SO sorry that Mike is so sick. Looking forward to your reaction to the next episode and working your way to the season finale! Cheers from South Africa! ❤
I really don’t claim much actual knowledge here; I’m not a hardware person. I do know that unlike kodern LCDs, CRT’s like the one over which Angel is warming himself can store (if you’ll forgive the phrase) an unholy amount of power; we’re talking “kill you stone dead” voltages, even after it’s been turn off. I recall instructions on how to safely discharge one before removing a CRT from an enclosure long ago and far away. I genuinely have no idea if it’s remotely possible for one to start a fire, but it seems at least plausible? Obvs I defer to you if you know more about CRTs and electricity than me (which isn’t a terribly high bar). :)
My only problem with this episode is that given Angelus is out there, why aren't people like Miss Calendar carrying crosses and holy water everywhere they go? They might not have saved her, but it doesn't make sense that she didn't have any protection. Powerful episode.
I agree. It's just one of those things i have to slip into my 'suspension of disbelief' file and go on enjoying the show. How does Cordelia still have a license after driving to the library at the end of season 1? The show is so enjoyable that i don't have too much trouble suspending my disbelief to enjoy the story. It's kind of interesting how, on shows that i don't enjoy, it's almost impossible to not see the glaring problems and fixate on them. But shows like Buffy, that i do like I can either rationalize it and find a way for it to make sense, or hand wave it away as inconsequential. Like the computer fire. Mikey is right, a computer might catch fire, but not like that (unless it had a wooden motherboard). The writer just needed a convenient way for Angelus to dispose of the printout so he wrote that into the scene. But it's fairly easy just ignore and get wrapped up in the rest of the story.
@@PromptCriticalJello yep. Also, the fire doesn't spread and burn the whole school down either. It would have made more sense if he ripped up the pages, used a match to light them and tossed them in a metal waste basket.
It drives me NUTS that Giles forbids Buffy telling her mom. The idea that she’d be safer-or that Buffy would be-by keeping her in the dark makes zero sense from a security standpoint. Everyone would be safer if Joyce could adopt some security measures. While there is a canon reason that could make sense later (I won’t go further bc spoilers), Giles should know better.
Watching this back after seeing the comment Buffy makes in Season 6 Episode 17 (no spoilers!) makes it less frustrating that she isn't telling her mom about being a Slayer. It just sucks it takes so long for us to realize why she was so hesitant to let her know. But just so you guys know, there's a reason! It's a good one too. Lol.
Feel better Mike! Glad you all enjoy this one. This just goes to show you no one is safe in this show. Any character's life is at risk as well as their hearts I think that is why I love this show so much. Along with nerdy, awkward comedy and the relationships between the gang as well as the baddies. By the end of the season a good number of your questions/concerns will be answered.
Congratulations! You guys are doing a great job of reviewing Buffy. Now, you've watched the most shocking episode yet! Want to know an odd feature of this episode? The main characters almost never mention garlic or have tons of garlic nearby to repel vampires, but in this episode, garlic is shown to be behind Buffy and Willow. Garlic might repel me, or, garlic breath.
An unfortunate one to miss, but sickness happens. I hope Mike is feeling better now. I would like to point out that you were technically correct when you predicted that Ms. Calendar would make it to Giles' place. Just not in the way you'd hoped
I saw this episode first time 21 years ago and it still hurts. Jenny was my fav's character. Robia LaMorte (now Robia Scott) is so underrated actress...
Absolutely gutting episode. I was so wrecked after this episode. I don’t know I could even talk for like an hour. I was barely recovered at all even by the time they finally got to putting out the next episode still basically wrecked. And so many tropes were not tropes until Buffy established them so stuff really hit hard back in the day it was all new for TV they just never did stuff like so much of what they do before. So it was all extra shocking.
Lie To Me (S2E07) was where I, as a young person, thought, "Oh this show is different and really good." It was this episode where I thought, "Oh this is my new favorite show."
So the point at the end commentary y’all made about the implied trade-off I.e. Jenny instead of Joyce… I see the your point but slightly disagree. He would’ve killed them both that night, if he’d had the chance But angel ultimately killed Jenny to prevent her from restoring his soul, or from telling the scoobies how to do it. The emotional wreckage caused by killing her was just icing on the cake for him. Like he said.. 2 birds. 1 stone. Once dru got that premonition, Jenny’s fate was sealed IMO
Definitely try to put all thoughts about the Angel show to one side. It'll be pretty obvious when its coming and why. Get well soon Mike, you missed another great episode
You are correct about the curse on Angel. It was for vengeance and not justice. Vengeance is based on evil with the result to satisfy the selfish desires of a person or persons. There is no love / light in vengeance, only evil purpose to achieve dark results. The theme of duality is a constant of the entirety of BTVS. Where is the line that separates justice and vengeance. True forgiveness and misguided punishment. Unconditional surrender towards true love versus selfish desires. The profound questions asked for centuries and at the heart of Western culture. The underlying complexity of the show is now coming out and enhances the stories with every coming situation.
@@williambowman2326 True, but even vengeance has to be perpetrated to hurt the one responsible. Here... it's not Angelus that suffers the most. It never is. But I agree, Jenny's uncle said it too. Their business is not justice, it's vengeance.
Honestly, the first time I saw this episode I almost threw up. It made lose a lot of sleep, it was in my nightmares, and even seeing it as many times as I have I still hate it for being so horrid.
How dare you miss this episode Mike 🖕but really hope you feel better soon. I'm with Xander this episode Buffy put everyone she cared about lives at risk because she was not ready he and everyone absolutely have the right to be upset. Not only did Angel almost kill Willow though Xander saved her with a cross from behind Angel almost killed Xander but Dru saved him now Ms. Calander is gone because Buffy chose a kick to the groin instead of a stake to the heart. Everyone in the line of fire but unlike Buffy they don't have the superpowers to defend themselves, but Xander words are what's bad when he's the only one being rational.
that damned love spell last episode! if angel could have killed xander when he'd tried to, that would have been the wake-up call our protagonists desperately needed, and jenny probably would have lived.
Yeah if you didn’t believe it after the principal got eaten or stopped believing it again after they killed Buffy only for a moment in S1 finale you definitely for sure got it got now. Between all that stuff truly not any character is safe now.
Get well, Mike. And also, nothing much happens in the season finale. You might as well miss that, too... XD I love the monologue about passion. It feels creepy in context, but I actually agree otherwise. And we should point out that Angel is quite the artist. We sometimes wonder how he can afford the appartment and blood and stuff. Maybe he paints and sells portraits. I admit that it's shocking to see Jenny killed, but the moments it gets sad is when Giles finds her. Angel really took some time to set the scene! Also, you should have just let us believe that was a magic pen!
My headcanon is that Angel was showing off. “Me so smart, me speak Latin”. A school is a public building, he doesn't need an invitation. Besides, he was there many times before.
Ok now look dammit!!! Mike betta drag himself out of bed and stop missing these critical episodes lol Take a DayQuil and come sit on this couch! I bet he makes “Go Fish” 🙄😅😅
Not Mikey liking THE outfit 😢 Over the course of the series, there are some significant, iconic outfits that are burned into the brains of the Fandom. This is one of the ones that makes my heart ache just to see it. ❤
When mickey first reacted to the death I was like wait why is he smiling💀. I think it was just the shock tho cause you were super quiet afterwards when it probably sunk in lol.
This episode is crazy, we see alot of death in the show wether its someone we care about or not, its very clear that vampires are evil but the difference between a vampire and Angelus is made very clear in this episode, hes psychotic, the way he stalks and messes with peoples minds first, the way he set up Jenny's body in that way for Giles to find is so dark ... amazing episode :)
We've never seen Giles inviting Angel into his house. But there is no reason why he shouldn't have; and more, he says a bit earlier in this episode that after Willow and Buffy's houses are secured, he needs to do the same to his own - indicating that Angel does have access into it.
This episode. Man. Lifted the show from teenage pap to quality tv. Birthed future Twilight fans. Launched David Boreanaz' career (Alyson Hannigan got launched earlier, but this is where us oldies love her from). Set up one of the greatest long-running shows on telly. Joss Whedon may have turned out to be an ass, but he's an ass who knows how to tell a freakin' story.
Great reaction guys. This episode always kills me. Angelus watching Buffy sleep, the scene between Angelus and Joyce, Angelus taunting Spike, Jenny's death, Giles' finding Jenny's body and the fight between Giles and Angelus and the final scene between Giles and Buffy - so much emotion, so much passion. As you say, this is such a 'real' episode.
Mikey's face and hand flailing when Angelus snapped Jenny's neck was awesome. It actually cracked me up. So sorry Mike couldn't be there for this big episode, would have loved to have seen his reactions. Hope you are feeling better. Everyone stay well for the finale!
Yea, a demon would never want to be re-souled as it would be like self deletion and Angel/human soul is not in the body, it can not whisper or try to influence the demon, the soul is gone, heaven or hell, depending on what exist in whedonverse....the[word for people from Romania] brought the soul back to punish him, but it actually punish the human, not the demon
Welcome to BTVS, guys. The show that can seem so funny, and silly one moment, and then rip your heart out and beat you over the head with it the next. for context, fhis episode is on my personal top ten (possibl top 5, depending on how I'm feeling). It's not in my top 3, though.
This show does such a good job of juxtaposing opposites. At first, Willow is so excited about the prospect of taking over Calendar's class. After Jenny's death, it's the last place she wants to be.
When Cordy is talking about inviting Angel into her car, she is referencing s2e2 when she had Angel ride home with her after discovering all the body parts in the trash can.
This is it gentelmen. This is the turning point and where you can see why this is going to be one of the best shows ever made. There are still some weak episodes here and there but overall it will be your favorite show ;)
"I hated angel before the rest of you" is not the flex Xander thinks it is. It just underscores that he never cared about the difference between Angel (with soul, human soul in charge) and Angelus (without soul, demon in charge). As for Joyce not knowing, let's just say that there are reasons. More than that, I will not say.
Hey all! Unfortunately for these next two episodes Mike was very sick and could not make it for recording this day...we didn't know the topic of these episodes until too late!
Apologies but things also happen and we keep moving! We try to have everyone for the reactions but if we need to record, we record with 2/3 of us available.
We hope you understand!
-Mikey
Feel better soon Mike.
Would like a list of the ones it would be better to react too once all 3 are healthy?
It would help, however in events someone can't make it but 2 are around we keep going for our patreon viewers who pay.
I've watched a few channels and they do this too. 3 is preferred always but illness and emergencies happen and as they do we keep going
Feel better Mike!
@@RLucas3000 That's a long list.
This is the episode where we truly learn how evil Angelus is. We've been told multiple times he was bad, he was evil, he was the "most vile creature I ever knew," but here, we see it viscerally. Also, Angels "O" face when he sees Buffy and Willow balling in tears over learning of Jenny's death. This was the episode that I truly understood that Angel was an emotional sadist.
Wow, someone sure is missing all the important episodes! There was just a Hellmouth convention held at the Torrance high school location and Robia LaMorte , who played Jenny, was doing photos with the fans in front of that window! So many good times at that place. 😆
lol poor Mike missing the critical episodes QQ
Every time it happens we text him a gif of the pen writing and catching on fire. The writing was phenomenal
OK, just to reassure you - there is a reason why Buffy doesn't tell Joyce. But it won't be elaborated on for quite some time. Keep watching.
Buffy. The show that makes you aware that anyone can die, and nobody's safe... several times. Remember principal Flutie?
Welcome to the Whedonverse, where a character's value is not measured in how much the audience enjoys them, it is measured in how devastated we will be when they die.
The reason this feels like a Valentines Day episode is because this was originally written to be the Valentines Day episode, but SMG was hosting SNL, so they had to push it back a week. And we got the Xander episode instead.
Just when you think it couldn't get worse, or Angelus could be any more vile...he gives that slow, deliciously satisfied smile at Buffy's grief...
Whedon and Boreanz created a monster for the ages.
The writers had Angel snap Jenny's kneck to show the audience that Jenny was truly dead and never coming back. Even so, so many people were convinced that she is coming back, that she is a vampire somehow, because people are so attached to her that they couldn't process her death. We all went into denial with grief. GRR Martin learned how to kill off important and beloved characters from Joss Whedon.
The ecstacy of grief ...
Chilling
Great reaction to a series changing episode. In 1998, all of my girl friends were still suffering from Angel whiplash. It’s hard to explain how popular he was before Innocence and how confused the fans, especially the girls, were now. Before this episode everyone hoped they could “ get Angel back”. ( I heard it so much for a month it was sickening). But not after Passion. We forget that Angelius brutally kills a girl to start the episode. What happen over the next hour was startling. Jenny Calender was super popular and besides Willow a big favorite. When this show ended my phone just kept ringing. Every girl friend called and it went like this…. Sobbing… I cant beleive Miss Calendar is dead…. I hate Angel…. Buffy needs to kill that bastard. Angel went from a desired heartthrob to a SOB in just a few weeks. This episode changed millions of people and let us all understand that no one is safe and that there is no bottom to where this show will take its viewers. This stayed with us for a long time and the emotions for many were never repaired.
Finally, Joyce. Would you allow your daughter to go out at night to fight supernatural forces in a life and death struggle? What would Joyce say? “ Good luck Buffy. Hope you have a good slaying and it will be great if are you alive in the morning?”
Love learning little facts like this about what happened when it aired!!
Why did I hear "Goodnight Westley..... I'll most likely kill you in the morning" When I read that 🤭
I think up until S2 episode Innocence, it was the best episode so far. However this is where the show went into overdrive. Passion is a superb episode which had absolutely everything, and very much a top ten episode from the whole series. The plot really thickens here with Jenny trying to get the way to restore Angel's soul, but Angelus is too strong and clever and foils her attempt with her brutal and shocking murder of a main character. Superb atmospheric narration from David Boreanaz at the start and end of the episode explaining Passion itself. The bit where Giles see's Jenny in the bed lifeless is so cruel, as is Angelus looking in through the window at Buffy and Willow crying, pure evil. The writing here was excellent as we build up to the Season finale with this incredible arc of Season 2. You can really see here how brilliant the Series has now become heading towards a fantastic Season Finale. The ending where the computer disk falls in between the desk is so well done. Superb writing and brilliant acting. Passion is I think a top ten episode from the whole Series.
It was the best we've seen so far.
Willow crying broke us
This is definitely when the show went into overdrive. Up till this point I had only watch maybe one or 2 episodes but I caught this and was immediately hooked
I agree, this episode was sad, intense and real and it was the show's statement: Shit is real now, never gonna be the same and it's glorious
I'm sorry Mike missed the group reaction. Your 3-person-dynamic is always fun, but I mostly hope he is feeling better. Still enjoyed your 2-person review of this heavy and powerful episode.
RIP Jenny Calendar,, you will be miss.
You're appreciated
Mike seems to have a talent for missing the most important and best episodes! Maybe that can be an indicator in the future? Whenever Mike misses an episode, you can be sure that it will be a great one! Anyway, get better soon, Mike!
😂
"This was mad depressing, but the ones that hit your emotions the best are the depressing ones. Those are the ones that make you feel something." (Mikey)
Couldn't have said it better myself. Spoken like a true BtVS fan. 👍😊
Before I start watching, feel better Mike! Lighting candles and using magical charms to make sure he's there for the two part finale! Now on to the reaction.
17:56 Joe's bro FTW! 🖋
He was waiting for his time to shine!!
Feel better Mike! I would love for Mikey and Joe to ask his opinion on this episode on screen, when he's feeling better please.
The episode where everything Angel said about what he did to Drusilla is proven to be true about him.
2:00-2:06 The problem is Angel is just as much like that as Angelus with the stalker watching Buffy behavior. He can claim to be doing it to help Buffy and have better boundries than Angelus, but it was creepy even before Angelus came along. Telling Buffy he would be doing so to help and make sure she was safe wouldn't even take the creepy ick factor out of it for Angel.
Giles telling Buffy not to tell her mom the truth, but not offering an alternative over Buffy's worries doesn't lend the _don't tell your mom_ action any merit. And the problem with Buffy staying elsewhere is that Angelus isn't after Buffy. He's after those around Buffy she cares about, as Angel said he did to Drusilla to start driving her insane, which is why Giles advice about "ignore him and he'll go away" is so bad. What excuse would Buffy give to Joyce to get her to stay somewhere else (that wouldn't get the law [or someone else not in the know] involved and thus killed) that would be better than the truth? To me, that is not actually a question that can be answered. It is a rhetorical question.
Xander is also right that Buffy is the "watchers pet."
I fiind it odd that Willow fed the fish that weren't there without noticing they were gone or looking for them. It actually does add cadence to the idea that they hadn't bonded yet, as she states to Buffy.
It seems like Giles lets Buffy dictate his relationship with Jenny. When Buffy's upset at Jenny, Giles breaks up with her and when Buffy starts getting over it and talks to Jenny, Giles starts mending the _get back together_ bridge. I don't feel he was upset with Jenny so much as I feel he allowed Buffy being upset to dicate his actions about the relationship.
Angelus is toying with Jenny by saying the latin sign invited him in. A school is a public building he would have access to anyway. He also toys with her by running right at the cleaning cart, so he can surprise her by going up the back way and surprise her from behind.
I'm not a hundred percent sure the car invitation is an actual thing unless a person lives in it. I always theorized Cordelia was being dramatic because she didn't know, and the group didn't correct her as they thought it'd be too much work to deal with an overdramatic Cordelia.
15:34-15:36 Giles said he did, one scene earlier, but we didn't see the actual invitation happen.
The look on Buffy's face as Angelus watches her get the news of Jenny's death is the whole point of what Angelus is doing.
Xander's speech about saying he deserves something for saying he told them so before Angelus did anything to any of them, states he is blaming Angel for things Angelus did before Angel became Angelus. That's jealousy. If he wants to blame Angelus for Angelus things, there isn't a problem with that, but bringing his Angel jealousy into Angelus' wrongdoings downgrades his point into jealousy of Angel instead of hatred for Angelus' actions, making his point less valid than it should be.
The school's higher ups are cheap and corrupt enough to exploit a willing student aka Willow into breaking the law and teaching classes so they don't have to higher anyone.
Jenny Calender was going to die no matter what (Angelus' in-universe logic). It wasn't about a trade off with Buffy's mom surviving. It was about Drusilla's visions figuring out she was a threat with Angel's soul restoration being in progress.
To me, disregarding Angel because of what Angelus does is the same as disregarding Xander for what the hyena did while in his body. The situations are definitly different, but Xander's face still nearly raped Buffy and Angelus is admittedly, by in-universe charactes, not the same as Angel, but both characters have two sets of faces (good and evil) under the circumstances. So I cannot say I would distrust Angel because of Angelus' actions anymore than I would Xander for the hyena.
I will absolutely ask him, thank you for your wonderful comments as usual, especially with clearing some stuff up
Loved your reaction. Such a powerful, heart-breaking, near perfect episode. The show had told us how evil Angelus was but it then successfully demonstrates, and boy did it. Many if not most shows would have ended with the shock of Jenny's murder but here we see the emotional consequences and they hurt just as much. Joe is right, that the death is more than shocking, it feels very real. And as great as this episode is, IMO there is even better to come.
Thank you so much
i didn't remember either, and Mikey is right about it being a trope. "Can I see you later?" that's when I knew.
When he said it it made me realise....can't say more cause spoilers but I hope you catch my drift
This episode is a near perfect microcosm for the entires show.
The rollercoaster of highs and lows flows through every season.
One bit of trivia Jenny was originally not supposed to be the one killed by Angelus. But for some reason or another she decided to or had to leave the show and Oz who was the one who was supposed to get killed ended up having extended availability to stay on the show so they swapped Angelus killing Oz this episode for Angelus killing Jenny instead.
Joss Whedon decided... And yes, in first version Oz was Angelus's victim.
I LOVED your reaction! Back in the day when this first aired it broke my heart and I knew that this episode was going to break your hearts as well! This demonstrates exactly how cruel and evil and devious Angelus really is. But yes, remember that Angel and Angelus are two separate "people". I don't know if you guys are Marvel fans, but someone wrote an interesting article comparing Bucky Barnes vs The Winter Soldier to Angel vs Angelus. When Captain America (Steve) told Bucky that "you know, all those things that you've done, that wasn't YOU" and then Bucky said: "I know, BUT I still DID it". And Tony Stark couldn't forgive Bucky for killing his (Iron Man's) parents. I'm SO sorry that Mike is so sick. Looking forward to your reaction to the next episode and working your way to the season finale! Cheers from South Africa! ❤
13:26 That big fire is being fueled by 100% pure Plot Convenience, a very volatile substance.
I really don’t claim much actual knowledge here; I’m not a hardware person. I do know that unlike kodern LCDs, CRT’s like the one over which Angel is warming himself can store (if you’ll forgive the phrase) an unholy amount of power; we’re talking “kill you stone dead” voltages, even after it’s been turn off. I recall instructions on how to safely discharge one before removing a CRT from an enclosure long ago and far away. I genuinely have no idea if it’s remotely possible for one to start a fire, but it seems at least plausible? Obvs I defer to you if you know more about CRTs and electricity than me (which isn’t a terribly high bar). :)
My only problem with this episode is that given Angelus is out there, why aren't people like Miss Calendar carrying crosses and holy water everywhere they go? They might not have saved her, but it doesn't make sense that she didn't have any protection.
Powerful episode.
She had a cross with her in the episode “Innocence”. Maybe it was in her purse or something?
@@migmit that could be. It was a pretty big cross! And she might not have had time to get it out. That makes sense, thanks!
I agree.
It's just one of those things i have to slip into my 'suspension of disbelief' file and go on enjoying the show.
How does Cordelia still have a license after driving to the library at the end of season 1? The show is so enjoyable that i don't have too much trouble suspending my disbelief to enjoy the story.
It's kind of interesting how, on shows that i don't enjoy, it's almost impossible to not see the glaring problems and fixate on them. But shows like Buffy, that i do like I can either rationalize it and find a way for it to make sense, or hand wave it away as inconsequential.
Like the computer fire. Mikey is right, a computer might catch fire, but not like that (unless it had a wooden motherboard). The writer just needed a convenient way for Angelus to dispose of the printout so he wrote that into the scene. But it's fairly easy just ignore and get wrapped up in the rest of the story.
@@PromptCriticalJello yep. Also, the fire doesn't spread and burn the whole school down either. It would have made more sense if he ripped up the pages, used a match to light them and tossed them in a metal waste basket.
You people sound like a bunch of insufferable nerds.
I loved your optimism/pessimism shots when the idea of restoring Angel's soul entered the picture. Great camera work.
It drives me NUTS that Giles forbids Buffy telling her mom. The idea that she’d be safer-or that Buffy would be-by keeping her in the dark makes zero sense from a security standpoint. Everyone would be safer if Joyce could adopt some security measures. While there is a canon reason that could make sense later (I won’t go further bc spoilers), Giles should know better.
Watching this back after seeing the comment Buffy makes in Season 6 Episode 17 (no spoilers!) makes it less frustrating that she isn't telling her mom about being a Slayer. It just sucks it takes so long for us to realize why she was so hesitant to let her know. But just so you guys know, there's a reason! It's a good one too. Lol.
Feel better Mike! Glad you all enjoy this one. This just goes to show you no one is safe in this show. Any character's life is at risk as well as their hearts I think that is why I love this show so much. Along with nerdy, awkward comedy and the relationships between the gang as well as the baddies. By the end of the season a good number of your questions/concerns will be answered.
Poor miss Calendar 😢poor Giles
Congratulations! You guys are doing a great job of reviewing Buffy. Now, you've watched the most shocking episode yet! Want to know an odd feature of this episode? The main characters almost never mention garlic or have tons of garlic nearby to repel vampires, but in this episode, garlic is shown to be behind Buffy and Willow. Garlic might repel me, or, garlic breath.
An unfortunate one to miss, but sickness happens. I hope Mike is feeling better now. I would like to point out that you were technically correct when you predicted that Ms. Calendar would make it to Giles' place. Just not in the way you'd hoped
Mikey going full Deadpool @14:21 is hilarious.
Feel better, Mike!
I saw this episode first time 21 years ago and it still hurts. Jenny was my fav's character. Robia LaMorte (now Robia Scott) is so underrated actress...
Agree
Absolutely gutting episode. I was so wrecked after this episode. I don’t know I could even talk for like an hour. I was barely recovered at all even by the time they finally got to putting out the next episode still basically wrecked.
And so many tropes were not tropes until Buffy established them so stuff really hit hard back in the day it was all new for TV they just never did stuff like so much of what they do before. So it was all extra shocking.
Feel better, Mike! (watching this episode will not help with that)
Lie To Me (S2E07) was where I, as a young person, thought, "Oh this show is different and really good." It was this episode where I thought, "Oh this is my new favorite show."
Perfect episode. Also proof that some of these people behind the camera are literally sadists, but still.
11:51 - 11:59 Oh, the juxtaposition of tragic memory and naïve hope!
Wishing Mike a speedy recovery!!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Mike missing the best episodes. He can't take any more days off during Buffy episodes.
So the point at the end commentary y’all made about the implied trade-off I.e. Jenny instead of Joyce… I see the your point but slightly disagree. He would’ve killed them both that night, if he’d had the chance
But angel ultimately killed Jenny to prevent her from restoring his soul, or from telling the scoobies how to do it.
The emotional wreckage caused by killing her was just icing on the cake for him. Like he said.. 2 birds. 1 stone. Once dru got that premonition, Jenny’s fate was sealed IMO
Definitely try to put all thoughts about the Angel show to one side. It'll be pretty obvious when its coming and why. Get well soon Mike, you missed another great episode
I was waiting for this episode,
You are correct about the curse on Angel. It was for vengeance and not justice. Vengeance is based on evil with the result to satisfy the selfish desires of a person or persons. There is no love / light in vengeance, only evil purpose to achieve dark results. The theme of duality is a constant of the entirety of BTVS. Where is the line that separates justice and vengeance. True forgiveness and misguided punishment. Unconditional surrender towards true love versus selfish desires. The profound questions asked for centuries and at the heart of Western culture. The underlying complexity of the show is now coming out and enhances the stories with every coming situation.
@@williambowman2326 True, but even vengeance has to be perpetrated to hurt the one responsible. Here... it's not Angelus that suffers the most. It never is.
But I agree, Jenny's uncle said it too. Their business is not justice, it's vengeance.
Chicken Soup. Vitamin C. Get well MIkes.
Honestly, the first time I saw this episode I almost threw up. It made lose a lot of sleep, it was in my nightmares, and even seeing it as many times as I have I still hate it for being so horrid.
Welcome to the club boys, this is just the beginning
Mike got the worst luck, huh?
It seems like it 😭
How dare you miss this episode Mike 🖕but really hope you feel better soon.
I'm with Xander this episode Buffy put everyone she cared about lives at risk because she was not ready he and everyone absolutely have the right to be upset. Not only did Angel almost kill Willow though Xander saved her with a cross from behind Angel almost killed Xander but Dru saved him now Ms. Calander is gone because Buffy chose a kick to the groin instead of a stake to the heart. Everyone in the line of fire but unlike Buffy they don't have the superpowers to defend themselves, but Xander words are what's bad when he's the only one being rational.
ohhh nooooes, away from this one as well :o
Poor Mike missed the entire Jenny Calendar arc!
that damned love spell last episode! if angel could have killed xander when he'd tried to, that would have been the wake-up call our protagonists desperately needed, and jenny probably would have lived.
I agree Joyce should know, but in all fairness. Oz, he is a werewolf ruff🐺
You guys are the best, during the worst. Again, here we go....
Mike has the worst timing for missing episodes lmao
Mike missing out again.
This episode is where it was proven just how INCREDIBLE this series was. And proved no one is safe!!
Early proof of Whedon's writing ability.
Yeah if you didn’t believe it after the principal got eaten or stopped believing it again after they killed Buffy only for a moment in S1 finale you definitely for sure got it got now. Between all that stuff truly not any character is safe now.
But ... plot armor
Get well, Mike. And also, nothing much happens in the season finale. You might as well miss that, too... XD
I love the monologue about passion. It feels creepy in context, but I actually agree otherwise. And we should point out that Angel is quite the artist. We sometimes wonder how he can afford the appartment and blood and stuff. Maybe he paints and sells portraits.
I admit that it's shocking to see Jenny killed, but the moments it gets sad is when Giles finds her. Angel really took some time to set the scene!
Also, you should have just let us believe that was a magic pen!
I also wanted to add some love for the musical score of this episode by Christophe Beck. It is so good.
My headcanon is that Angel was showing off. “Me so smart, me speak Latin”. A school is a public building, he doesn't need an invitation. Besides, he was there many times before.
I don't underhow people are confused by this. She was asking a rethorical question. And he was being a smart as
Ok now look dammit!!! Mike betta drag himself out of bed and stop missing these critical episodes lol Take a DayQuil and come sit on this couch! I bet he makes “Go Fish” 🙄😅😅
😭😂😂
Now i have an image of Mike in footie pajamas with a bowl of soup sitting there on the couch.
Sometimes i hate my brain.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not Mikey liking THE outfit 😢 Over the course of the series, there are some significant, iconic outfits that are burned into the brains of the Fandom. This is one of the ones that makes my heart ache just to see it. ❤
I have no fashion sense but even I know she's iconic 🤷
When mickey first reacted to the death I was like wait why is he smiling💀. I think it was just the shock tho cause you were super quiet afterwards when it probably sunk in lol.
It took a while to sink in
This episode is crazy, we see alot of death in the show wether its someone we care about or not, its very clear that vampires are evil but the difference between a vampire and Angelus is made very clear in this episode, hes psychotic, the way he stalks and messes with peoples minds first, the way he set up Jenny's body in that way for Giles to find is so dark ... amazing episode :)
We've never seen Giles inviting Angel into his house. But there is no reason why he shouldn't have; and more, he says a bit earlier in this episode that after Willow and Buffy's houses are secured, he needs to do the same to his own - indicating that Angel does have access into it.
Buffy: "You can't leave me!"
Always brings out the water works for me.
This episode. Man. Lifted the show from teenage pap to quality tv. Birthed future Twilight fans. Launched David Boreanaz' career (Alyson Hannigan got launched earlier, but this is where us oldies love her from). Set up one of the greatest long-running shows on telly.
Joss Whedon may have turned out to be an ass, but he's an ass who knows how to tell a freakin' story.
Great reaction guys. This episode always kills me. Angelus watching Buffy sleep, the scene between Angelus and Joyce, Angelus taunting Spike, Jenny's death, Giles' finding Jenny's body and the fight between Giles and Angelus and the final scene between Giles and Buffy - so much emotion, so much passion. As you say, this is such a 'real' episode.
Mikey's face and hand flailing when Angelus snapped Jenny's neck was awesome. It actually cracked me up. So sorry Mike couldn't be there for this big episode, would have loved to have seen his reactions. Hope you are feeling better. Everyone stay well for the finale!
A brilliant but heartbreaking and rather shocking episode! This show has everything..it can be camp, lots of drama and very dark. Love it!
This is favourite episode of the entire show, there are many more popular episodes but this one to me is the perfect episode.
Mikey is so funny and I'm still curious to know what Joe remembers from the show.
Great reaction, guys :)
Great reaction guys. This episode is heavy. This is when the show gets more mature.
Thank you!
Hope Mike feels better soon!!! I know it’s almost a throw-away joke but I love it when other kids try to use the library.
Poor Jonathan
28:23
not unless you can compartmentalize like a MFer
Well, restoring Angel's soul would at least render a powerful enemy harmless. It'd still make sense.
This was a great episode and there are many even greater yet to come! Love how Joe saw through Angelus plan
Paitience dudes. This is an unfolding text.
Yea, a demon would never want to be re-souled as it would be like self deletion and Angel/human soul is not in the body, it can not whisper or try to influence the demon, the soul is gone, heaven or hell, depending on what exist in whedonverse....the[word for people from Romania] brought the soul back to punish him, but it actually punish the human, not the demon
The demon is not happy about having a roommate.
And as the man said, "It is not justice we serve. It is vengeance."
Very smart keeping a box of tissues handy. Believe me when I tell you, there are plenty of moments in this series when you'll require them.
If he misses the finale, Mike will have officially skipped all of the main storyline episodes of season 2.
IIRC.
I won't let him 🪢🪢🪢
So sorry, Mikey. We knew this day was coming. 🙁
Season 2 is my favourite.
Get well soon Mike!
Mikey: "She's gonna make there!"
Joe: Sure Jan.
Buffy's mum doesn't know?
Me: perhaps she always did...but she is in a level of denial that you aren't considering.
I could be wrong but I think Jenny is the first ON SCREEN death. Every other death happens off screen before this.
Welcome to BTVS, guys. The show that can seem so funny, and silly one moment, and then rip your heart out and beat you over the head with it the next. for context, fhis episode is on my personal top ten (possibl top 5, depending on how I'm feeling). It's not in my top 3, though.
This show does such a good job of juxtaposing opposites. At first, Willow is so excited about the prospect of taking over Calendar's class. After Jenny's death, it's the last place she wants to be.
So sorry Mike had to miss reacting to this one with you! It's such a good one. Hope you're feeling much better now, Mike ❤🩹
When Cordy is talking about inviting Angel into her car, she is referencing s2e2 when she had Angel ride home with her after discovering all the body parts in the trash can.
Just found you guys. I'm starting to think that you should never watch episodes without Mike, considering what he is missing this season.
This is it gentelmen. This is the turning point and where you can see why this is going to be one of the best shows ever made.
There are still some weak episodes here and there but overall it will be your favorite show ;)
"I hated angel before the rest of you" is not the flex Xander thinks it is. It just underscores that he never cared about the difference between Angel (with soul, human soul in charge) and Angelus (without soul, demon in charge).
As for Joyce not knowing, let's just say that there are reasons. More than that, I will not say.
Sad to hear Mike is feeling poorly and hope he feels better soon.
Now you know what's on the stack and how far the show is willing to go. Welcome to the Buffyverse!
angel ??devil, is the more appropriate name!
the episodes only get better and better!!
Absolute banger of an episode!