Molecular Biologist here (that means I have looked at a lot of drawings of the cell). Have the kickstarter version of the game and find it quite good. Just wanted to make a note that the science of the game is correct. If a bit simplified in the actual gameplay, but you have to if you want to make an enjoyable game. If you want to learn more the accompanying booklet with the proper scientific background is there for you, even if it is a bit dry.
My wife studies biological sciences and she loves how accurate to the science this is. We couldn't pass it up on kickstarter. It's a really solid worker placement game.
Just played for the first time with the wife (who has a PhD in microbiology) and we both loved it. It's a bit heavier than the usual games she plays but she still said she enjoyed it very much!
I did the PnP version and put it all together and got all the pieces I needed. The is a great game. Most euro games don't appeal to me but this one did and I'm glad I got it.
These are my favorite kind of reviews...when the sincerity really comes through. is it seal of excellence good? perhaps not given what it is....but is it going into the collection? I suspect it is ;)
I got a game called Pathogenesis... deckbuilder with a similar theme. I totally get Tom's initial hesitation because of the experience. I find science interesting, including Biology, but I can't say I know a ton about it. The issue was that as I'm told, the game was "well themed" in terms of if you knew stuff on the topic, but that not being the case, it was like "Well, this card of pink squiggles works with that card of purple lumps". Ultimately, the mechanics weren't enough to carry the game, but the theme was actually MORE boring than even really dull ones like the 9 millionth euro game about overly specific region/period farming and/or trading, because no matter how thought out all the theming was, there was no real appreciating it for someone without a lot of biology knowledge.... it was just a bunch of cards with long unintuitive names and abstract colored/shaped cells on them. I understand that this game comes with a sort of lore compendium so interested players can learn about the concepts the game uses for it's theme? I think this was probably an absolutely necessary idea the other game I mentioned failed to implement... But even with Tom speaking for it after having similar hesitations... yeah, I dunno. I try not to place weight on theme other than where it's super GREAT, but I feel a bit hesitant with games based on concepts like this even still. Like chopping wood to build fences to herd sheep or trading fish to a merchant for bricks is super boring, but at least I have enough comprehension of the idea that I have a sense I did something and what it was. All this... alcohol detoxification or building protein receptors... like I can grasp mechanically I'm taking more complex actions to get higher pay outs, or playing the long game for income rather than burst points, but in terms of WHY those cards do those things, is just... I don't even know. I'd rather have a theme that I see how it synchs up with the mechanics, even if it's really dull. I feel like that sounds super Luddite, which I hate because I am quite science minded (just... my field isn't Bio), but... feel like this ones is a hard pass for me.
He didn't have anything negative to say. Why not a Seal of Excellence? Not that it matters to me I've been really interested in this game since rahdo did his runthrough, but it is a little suspect.
jimtwo in that case they are just giving seals based on the reviewers excitement level, instead of something more objective (like ratio of pros to cons). Not that one can ever be completely objective but one can try, as a reviewer, to be as objective as possible. I mean he is allowed to give any type of seal he wants to any game but when someone essentially raves about a game and lists no cons with the base game and then gives basically just a passing score, it deligitimises their scoring system in my eyes.
His words were „great theme, great components and a solid good game“. Not an excellent game. Seal of approval = 7-8/10 Seal of excellence = 8.5+ So there is a lot to rave about an 8/10 game without it getting a seal of excellence. And he did say the game was a bit in your face.
Andrew Lawrence I do think that a Seal of Approval is a bit more than a "just a passing score." I think it does mean quite a positive thing to be worth putting a Dice Tower seal on it. Personally, I put less weight on the seal than the actual stuff he discusses, so maybe that's more important to you too?
Meeple Overboard! I guess so. I guess I have a different idea of how good "approval" is. But I'm sure whatever system you come up with someone is going to criticize it. It just was kind of jarring to me for him to be saying great thing after great thing, the word approval didn't seem to fit.
That's true, the word "Approval" is ambiguous, as it could even mean "It functions!" haha. It doesn't sound as good to say "Seal of Good" or "Seal of Solid."
I feel like this would be a real pain to teach to people who have never seen it before. A lot of explanation of the what the different areas of the board do, people constantly asking questions about what actions to take, people forgetting things mid game because the theme is too abstract to understand what’s going on.
It was an upgrade during the Kickstarter campaign. They started out exactly the same as the ones in Peptide but we really wanted the actually structure of ATP on the tokens rather than just a abstract image. And we raised well enough money to complete the upgrade during the KS, so we totally redesigned them to them more accurate :-)
They recently raised their criteria for the seal of excellence. Usually an 8 was an seal of excellence, now its raised to a 9 or something like that....even with that said, I must admit I was also expecting a seal of excellence.
Tom is obviously giving major props to this game for the theme. The mechanics seem very well done but aren't original. Also, the Seal of Approval now actually means something, before it would go to any game that isn't broken. Now it means you are actually getting a very good game (7-8/10). The Seal of Excellence is awarded to the best of the best (8.5+)
Breadcrust Olive well, not really. There are no intrigue cards plus this game has a multi phase production mechanism that LoW does not have. This game I feel also is better at tying theme to the gameplay than LoW. This is also crunchier... for me it worked better with my uber-nerdy game group than my casual+ game group where LoW is more accessible to the casual crowd.
I passed on the Kickstarter for this because I was burned by a few of their past games. The science was good but the games were pretty weak. It was such a hard decision whether to back or pass this one; guess I chose wrong. Ah well.
Mike Morris I get what you’re saying but the new part of this game is the theme. Better than another game with no new ideas about trading goods. There are only about 10000 of those. I’ll take 1 about this theme.
Molecular Biologist here (that means I have looked at a lot of drawings of the cell). Have the kickstarter version of the game and find it quite good. Just wanted to make a note that the science of the game is correct. If a bit simplified in the actual gameplay, but you have to if you want to make an enjoyable game. If you want to learn more the accompanying booklet with the proper scientific background is there for you, even if it is a bit dry.
My wife studies biological sciences and she loves how accurate to the science this is. We couldn't pass it up on kickstarter. It's a really solid worker placement game.
My girl too
Just played for the first time with the wife (who has a PhD in microbiology) and we both loved it. It's a bit heavier than the usual games she plays but she still said she enjoyed it very much!
Endoplasmistic Reticulum... one of those words that has been stuck in my head since 7th grade science. lol
"Golgi Apparatus"
I kickstarted this game for the theme and am happy I did. Very cool and scientifically as accurate as it could be and still be fun.
Lords of Waterdeep with a good theme finally. As a BioOrganic Chemist I approve. Its super basic info but it gets it mostly right
There are a lot of good worker placement games with good themes outside of waterdeep and cytosis though. It's a whole genre
Cellular microbiology is so interesting and exciting. Glad there's a game about it.
I use games for homeschooling my kids, this game looks GREAT for this!
I did the PnP version and put it all together and got all the pieces I needed. The is a great game. Most euro games don't appeal to me but this one did and I'm glad I got it.
Agreed, publishers need to take note: resources and player pieces need to be different colors!
Very neat and colorful production. The Kickstarter was also well presented , but I too was suspicious for it being a "science game".
Love this game! The Kickstarter components are even better than the cubes!
These are my favorite kind of reviews...when the sincerity really comes through. is it seal of excellence good? perhaps not given what it is....but is it going into the collection?
I suspect it is ;)
Tom is so excited to say big words that are real and not in the Vasel dictionary!
And as far as I heard - He pronounced them all correctly.
It’s a great game and the Deluxe Edition is just BEAUTIFUL. I absolutely love it :D
smooth snag Tom, I about spit out my drink!
The game looks fun!!
How dare you steal Melody's BOOM! ;)
I got a game called Pathogenesis... deckbuilder with a similar theme. I totally get Tom's initial hesitation because of the experience. I find science interesting, including Biology, but I can't say I know a ton about it. The issue was that as I'm told, the game was "well themed" in terms of if you knew stuff on the topic, but that not being the case, it was like "Well, this card of pink squiggles works with that card of purple lumps". Ultimately, the mechanics weren't enough to carry the game, but the theme was actually MORE boring than even really dull ones like the 9 millionth euro game about overly specific region/period farming and/or trading, because no matter how thought out all the theming was, there was no real appreciating it for someone without a lot of biology knowledge.... it was just a bunch of cards with long unintuitive names and abstract colored/shaped cells on them.
I understand that this game comes with a sort of lore compendium so interested players can learn about the concepts the game uses for it's theme? I think this was probably an absolutely necessary idea the other game I mentioned failed to implement... But even with Tom speaking for it after having similar hesitations... yeah, I dunno. I try not to place weight on theme other than where it's super GREAT, but I feel a bit hesitant with games based on concepts like this even still. Like chopping wood to build fences to herd sheep or trading fish to a merchant for bricks is super boring, but at least I have enough comprehension of the idea that I have a sense I did something and what it was. All this... alcohol detoxification or building protein receptors... like I can grasp mechanically I'm taking more complex actions to get higher pay outs, or playing the long game for income rather than burst points, but in terms of WHY those cards do those things, is just... I don't even know. I'd rather have a theme that I see how it synchs up with the mechanics, even if it's really dull. I feel like that sounds super Luddite, which I hate because I am quite science minded (just... my field isn't Bio), but... feel like this ones is a hard pass for me.
He didn't have anything negative to say. Why not a Seal of Excellence? Not that it matters to me I've been really interested in this game since rahdo did his runthrough, but it is a little suspect.
jimtwo in that case they are just giving seals based on the reviewers excitement level, instead of something more objective (like ratio of pros to cons). Not that one can ever be completely objective but one can try, as a reviewer, to be as objective as possible. I mean he is allowed to give any type of seal he wants to any game but when someone essentially raves about a game and lists no cons with the base game and then gives basically just a passing score, it deligitimises their scoring system in my eyes.
His words were „great theme, great components and a solid good game“. Not an excellent game.
Seal of approval = 7-8/10
Seal of excellence = 8.5+
So there is a lot to rave about an 8/10 game without it getting a seal of excellence. And he did say the game was a bit in your face.
Andrew Lawrence
I do think that a Seal of Approval is a bit more than a "just a passing score." I think it does mean quite a positive thing to be worth putting a Dice Tower seal on it. Personally, I put less weight on the seal than the actual stuff he discusses, so maybe that's more important to you too?
Meeple Overboard! I guess so. I guess I have a different idea of how good "approval" is. But I'm sure whatever system you come up with someone is going to criticize it. It just was kind of jarring to me for him to be saying great thing after great thing, the word approval didn't seem to fit.
That's true, the word "Approval" is ambiguous, as it could even mean "It functions!" haha. It doesn't sound as good to say "Seal of Good" or "Seal of Solid."
I feel like this would be a real pain to teach to people who have never seen it before. A lot of explanation of the what the different areas of the board do, people constantly asking questions about what actions to take, people forgetting things mid game because the theme is too abstract to understand what’s going on.
Why is the ATP bigger than a peptide? Lol
It was an upgrade during the Kickstarter campaign. They started out exactly the same as the ones in Peptide but we really wanted the actually structure of ATP on the tokens rather than just a abstract image. And we raised well enough money to complete the upgrade during the KS, so we totally redesigned them to them more accurate :-)
After so much praise, I was expecting an "Excellent" seal of quality...
They recently raised their criteria for the seal of excellence. Usually an 8 was an seal of excellence, now its raised to a 9 or something like that....even with that said, I must admit I was also expecting a seal of excellence.
Tom is obviously giving major props to this game for the theme. The mechanics seem very well done but aren't original.
Also, the Seal of Approval now actually means something, before it would go to any game that isn't broken. Now it means you are actually getting a very good game (7-8/10).
The Seal of Excellence is awarded to the best of the best (8.5+)
This is basically D&D Lords of Waterdeep
Breadcrust Olive well, not really. There are no intrigue cards plus this game has a multi phase production mechanism that LoW does not have. This game I feel also is better at tying theme to the gameplay than LoW. This is also crunchier... for me it worked better with my uber-nerdy game group than my casual+ game group where LoW is more accessible to the casual crowd.
Show how to play Virus!
Seems like lords of waterdeep without the interesting part (intrigue and building, also corruption)
Sold mines. Has. Major flaw in it.
It is cumbersome and not at all intuitive. Kind of expensive and don’t feel we learned much from it.
I passed on the Kickstarter for this because I was burned by a few of their past games. The science was good but the games were pretty weak. It was such a hard decision whether to back or pass this one; guess I chose wrong. Ah well.
Hey Tom, I think sitting during the video isn’t doing you any favors. Either angle up more or stand.
Nothing special. Another game with no new ideas.
Mike Morris I get what you’re saying but the new part of this game is the theme. Better than another game with no new ideas about trading goods. There are only about 10000 of those. I’ll take 1 about this theme.
Yeah, I agree with Bret. It is hard to say that this has nothing new when it actually intertwined a solid, fun game with an educational science theme.
Ugh mic still sucks , makes me not want to watch your vids
what's wrong with the mic?