I love this project citizen..! You go all out with your experiment, even adding custom graphics… I also own a Grizzly and love the power it gives us with two 1000w motors… One test that you didn’t give us was torque. I pull a camping trailer with my Grizzly and wonder how much more torque the mid drive gives you… Also I have eliminated the front wheel spin on full power take offs by starting in rear drive only and add the front drive 6’ off the starting line…. 6’ distance is like 1.5 seconds so I flip that switch fast. Not as much fun, but saves tire tread… Thanks again Citizen…!
It looks very professional, and thanks for taking the time to experiment! I do think a controller upgrade would have made more of a difference, even if it would not have been as interesting. I ride with other bikers using the BBS02, and my single hub drive outperforms them with ease. Your drag times and hill climb tests with the mid drive alone would be very revealing. Thanks for the video!
Looking forward to your collaboration bike with Wired.. I've got a build coming off the Wired Cruiser platform 72v frame fitted battery, 8k hub motor and custom one off controller. Had to slightly mod the rear end but it's looking very close to the stock bike🍻
I also pull in the left brake a tiny bit to cut the power temporarily. Your display looks like a 500c. I have heard about getting a bbshd controller for the bbs02 for more power. I believe the amps go from 24 to 30 with some easy programming. This should add 300 watts of more power. I’m excited to see your new bike release coming up!
orange plug is for a gear change sensor! You will probably find you find the right gear and you won't be changing it. Having the controller built into the motor is a godsend for ease of installation! Which is your favourite ride! I really love the moped style e bike for the comfort!
Get into the settings for the bbs02. You may need to buy a programming cable. There are maximum amp ratings per pass setting and levels of aggressiveness off the line. Those motors are highly programmable. You can find many programming guides online.
That front chainring might benefit from a 56t … they actually make them for the BBSHD mid drive. I love the fact that you did this, it’s what these bikes are all about. I’m definitely going to add a front motor to my M20 having run the rear hub and mid drive for a few months now. Cocaine Bear rocks. 😂 Cheers buddy.
Nice build. These kind of MrCentralDriver videos are entertaining...I think you are the 2nd YT person who I've seen do a 3 motor build... The other guy is electricbikeretrovintage's triple motor Cheetah
I think the performance gains achieved from this were poor compared to the weight and cost that were added. You would have been better off just increasing power to the rear hub motor. That would have made a bigger difference and might well have let the Grizzly beat your Rover in acceleration.
@CitizenCycle925 And you still have a nice BBS02 that will be handy to have around. I'm sure you will think up some other crazy use for it. That Grizzly is a really good platform for your mods. Even better with your new graphics. I think you should crank up the rear to 45-50 amps and see how it does. That would be a cheap and easy way to give the Rover a real challenge. But I think the most interesting end result for the Grizzly would be replacing the rear hub with direct drive running 72v at around 80-100 amps. Paired up with the geared front motor, it will get help off the starting line where the direct drive struggles. That should be a real performance beast. It would still weigh a lot with the heavy direct drive hub and the big battery, but it would be fast. I haven't seen that done to a Grizzly before, and it wouldn't be a cheap mod, but I bet you would have a lot of fun trying it out.
Amazing start. I wonder if you lean forward when starting to shift more weight to the front wheel it would give it more traction. Ultimate test though: what load can you pull in a trailer up a hill, the mid drive will certinly help there.
14:50 yeah that mid is pretty gutless ? Play around in the settings? Mine is a cafe racer style with the 750 watt bafang in the back and a bbshd. If im in gear 2 or 3 even ( with my front 46 tooth ring ) it pops wheelies and i am 250 + pounds.
Another great job! Cocaine Bear is awesome, love the yellow and black. I would try to put the gear shift sensor on, it will help in not breaking chains.
1. Acceleration can be improved with a smaller chain ring, lower gear ratio. The hub motors will dictate top end speed. 2. Hesitation may be a setting in the controller programming, not sure
Love your videos Mr. Citizen. I like the small rear trunk bag holding the battery to your mid drive motor. Do you have a link to that bag? Love how you modified the AR Grizzly to the Cocaine Bear just sharpe looking! Thanks!
I think the way to get more torque from the mid drive off the line would be to go with a significantly smaller chainring. Ex: the front chainring on the Sur Ron type mid drives bikes that have so much kick that the front wheel pops up easily are in the 14T-16T range. Of course this would come at the cost of ghost pedalling kicking in at a lower speed, but you aren't building a triple-motor bike if pedalling is a priority. Love that you experimenting and test outrageous ideas - thats how we learn and have fun!
I've always thought about having a triple motor ebike setup. But my conception was having a class-1 (PAS only) mid-drive equipped with throttle only mode dual hub motors. Generally I like to peddle, it doesn't feel natural for me not to peddle when I'm on a bike. And have the throttle when I want to ride standing on the peddles or I'm completely spent on a ride. I'm not at all crazed about the speed. So, I'd prefer the mid-drive to be as powerful as the 2 hub motors combined. Maybe 1000w mid-drive, and 2x500w hub motors. I definitely don't want my bike to weigh even a hair more than 100lbs, before I add my 250lbs bulk. Is such a setup possible?
Came out awesome, I’m sure you’ll refine some quarks over time. There has to be a way to eliminate the hesitation on launch, probably need to adjust the max amp limit at low rpm or something along those lines (not familiar with mid drive Bafang). I wonder if not using the shift/gear sensor has something to do with it?
Hi...That was fun! What if the mid drive was in the next higher gear for the acceleration test? Might it continue to give you increase power as you go?
Love the name and graphics! Maybe I'm wrong here, but I would think that having a rear hub motor should reduce the stress on the drivetrain from the mid drive. Is your collaboration build a bike that will be offered as a production model for retail? Or will it be a one-off custom build?
The collab build will not be offered for sale, however I am working on a product that I will be offering for sale in the near future. I should have a prototype soon and have a debut video before end of year 😁
Hey citizen I Loved your video on the T7 that’s one attractive bike! I currently have an aerial rider Kepler it hits 32mph easy tops out at 34-36 on a completely flat grade want some more acceleration tho… which is better wired or grizzly I know you have both which would you recommend . For range and over all rating
The grizzly definitely out accelerates the Wired bike. The wired has a higher top speed though. I'm not sure which one is better for range. Never did a range test on the grizzly.
🐍 Racing 2 different size controllers against each other is like racing a 2-barrel carb against a 4-barrel carb. It's not a race, it's just verifying the obvious.🖖🤙
I absolutely love your videos ........ I watch everyone. My only question is ...... Why do you never show a "GPS" app on your phone on the handlebars showing your top speed comparisons with your Citizen E-Bike?
I want that bike 😂🤣🫶🏼I know u are more concerned with takeoff and speed but I'm curious on what degree of hill climbing that cocaine bear can handle with those 3 motors set to level 5! I love the torque factor the most! Great job on your experiment friend! Great channel 👍🏼 I just subscribed ✌🏼🤘🏼❤️🔥
You should try my home made e bike,, dual direct drive hubs, dual 30A controllers both shunt modded.. 1 throttle,1 s900 display that can still program both controllers . 48/20Ah,and an auxiliary 48/22.4Ah on a battery either or switch. I have auto cruse, regen braking, no pas. I was going to use a battery blender, but because I have regenerative braking I can't use it w/out damaging it.That is why I switch between batteries. i have a video of the bike if you want to look, it doesn't explain much tho. On your 4.0 as long as you use 1 power source sharing both controllers you could eliminate one of the screens and throttle by just connecting the sensor wire of each secondary controller to the other sensor wire from primary controller. put a 3way switch on throttle sensor wires to switch between 1 and 2 motors. They have to be identical with same production software. As far as delay on start could be either because 1 controller is not shunt modded,or in settings of one of them, like start strength ,or pas assist strength.
The third motor mod is definitely over kill for the grizzly. Doesn’t really add much but it made for interesting content. Would be better for a single motor ebike
All I care about in the comparison is the 32.5 !!! Not really enough difference from the upgrades on the other one. But it was an interesting engineering project. You say pedal assist is now run by the mid-drive? That may be why you lose torque sooner on the speed run versus the CC bike. Are the other 2 motors on Bear getting no torque input besides throttle position (you removed torque sensor), and mid-drive is doing it all?
@@CitizenCycle925 yes, but isn't the rear hub motor limited on throttle only, without additional torque input from crank?; and would not that mean the mid-drive cannot override the rear hub even if the mid-drive is inputting more torque (because no torque sensor remains)? Basically I'm thinking out loud, because on the hillclimb test it seemed the Bear was better, where top speed is not reached nor is it the objective. For speed test, the rear hub is locking you out when you go for top speed?
if you started in first gear with the cocaine bear and shifted up as you went the motor would be in power for much longer. This is important as the mid drive motor powers directly through the cassete drive train,
If I was doing it longer Drag race shifting may be helpful. This was only 150 feet. In 2nd gear The mid drive provided assistance up to about 18 to 20 miles per hour.
I would’ve threw a CYC pro 3 X1 mid drive instead of that Bafang 10 times better than that mid drive motor and you could’ve thrown a 72 V battery on there you would’ve been doing over 50 miles an hour oh well maybe next time
Its 120nm torque on the bbs02. but only if you’re in the right gears shifting it. With 2 hubs the mid drive probably only needs a low , mid, and high gear. Don’t need a bunch of gears
Thank you for showing me your 2 black e-bikes with the yellow spokes covers!! I LOVE the Cocaine Bear colors!!
Yes, i told you I had a couple in that color scheme haha😂
Nice! Now time for 72v and 5000 watt rear hub motor! My V3 Grizzly goes 36 mph stock on GPS and I'm 230 lbs.
I love this project citizen..! You go all out with your experiment, even adding custom graphics… I also own a Grizzly and love the power it gives us with two 1000w motors…
One test that you didn’t give us was torque. I pull a camping trailer with my Grizzly and wonder how much more torque the mid drive gives you… Also I have eliminated the front wheel spin on full power take offs by starting in rear drive only and add the front drive 6’ off the starting line…. 6’ distance is like 1.5 seconds so I flip that switch fast. Not as much fun, but saves tire tread… Thanks again Citizen…!
Glad you enjoyed it. It was a fun project. I don't have a bicycle trailer but interesting idea..
It looks very professional, and thanks for taking the time to experiment! I do think a controller upgrade would have made more of a difference, even if it would not have been as interesting. I ride with other bikers using the BBS02, and my single hub drive outperforms them with ease. Your drag times and hill climb tests with the mid drive alone would be very revealing. Thanks for the video!
It was a fun experiment to try.
I think it solidified my favorite being hub drives.
I use a Bafang USB cable and a laptop to tune and modify controllers. You should try this method if you don’t already. Cheers.
Just bought a programming cable yesterday 😁
@@CitizenCycle925 It’s an adventure. They told me it can’t be used on a hub motor and yet…I did. Looking forward to a video on this. Carry on.
Looking forward to your collaboration bike with Wired.. I've got a build coming off the Wired Cruiser platform 72v frame fitted battery, 8k hub motor and custom one off controller. Had to slightly mod the rear end but it's looking very close to the stock bike🍻
Your build sounds absolutely insane! I may be doing some alterations to the freedom before the end of the year.
I’m not like most folks here who know this stuff. But, I sure appreciate that you’re experimenting for the layman.
I’d be curious to know your speed times with front motor and mid dive only (disable rear motor)
I also pull in the left brake a tiny bit to cut the power temporarily. Your display looks like a 500c. I have heard about getting a bbshd controller for the bbs02 for more power. I believe the amps go from 24 to 30 with some easy programming. This should add 300 watts of more power.
I’m excited to see your new bike release coming up!
orange plug is for a gear change sensor!
You will probably find you find the right gear and you won't be changing it.
Having the controller built into the motor is a godsend for ease of installation!
Which is your favourite ride! I really love the moped style e bike for the comfort!
Looking Good Brian. Interesting to watch your upgrades and ideas.
Thanks 👍
Get into the settings for the bbs02. You may need to buy a programming cable. There are maximum amp ratings per pass setting and levels of aggressiveness off the line. Those motors are highly programmable. You can find many programming guides online.
That front chainring might benefit from a 56t … they actually make them for the BBSHD mid drive. I love the fact that you did this, it’s what these bikes are all about. I’m definitely going to add a front motor to my M20 having run the rear hub and mid drive for a few months now. Cocaine Bear rocks. 😂
Cheers buddy.
Nice build. These kind of MrCentralDriver videos are entertaining...I think you are the 2nd YT person who I've seen do a 3 motor build... The other guy is electricbikeretrovintage's triple motor Cheetah
I think the performance gains achieved from this were poor compared to the weight and cost that were added. You would have been better off just increasing power to the rear hub motor. That would have made a bigger difference and might well have let the Grizzly beat your Rover in acceleration.
Was fun experiment and now I and others know the results 😊
@CitizenCycle925 And you still have a nice BBS02 that will be handy to have around. I'm sure you will think up some other crazy use for it.
That Grizzly is a really good platform for your mods. Even better with your new graphics. I think you should crank up the rear to 45-50 amps and see how it does.
That would be a cheap and easy way to give the Rover a real challenge. But I think the most interesting end result for the Grizzly would be replacing the rear hub with direct drive running 72v at around 80-100 amps. Paired up with the geared front motor, it will get help off the starting line where the direct drive struggles. That should be a real performance beast. It would still weigh a lot with the heavy direct drive hub and the big battery, but it would be fast. I haven't seen that done to a Grizzly before, and it wouldn't be a cheap mod, but I bet you would have a lot of fun trying it out.
@@CitizenCycle925 ok
Amazing start. I wonder if you lean forward when starting to shift more weight to the front wheel it would give it more traction.
Ultimate test though: what load can you pull in a trailer up a hill, the mid drive will certinly help there.
14:50 yeah that mid is pretty gutless ? Play around in the settings?
Mine is a cafe racer style with the 750 watt bafang in the back and a bbshd. If im in gear 2 or 3 even ( with my front 46 tooth ring ) it pops wheelies and i am 250 + pounds.
Another great job! Cocaine Bear is awesome, love the yellow and black. I would try to put the gear shift sensor on, it will help in not breaking chains.
Wow that's impressive... Do you have a video of your shunt modification?
Unfortunately I do not, I had someone else to do the mod for me.
1. Acceleration can be improved with a smaller chain ring, lower gear ratio. The hub motors will dictate top end speed.
2. Hesitation may be a setting in the controller programming, not sure
Love your videos Mr. Citizen. I like the small rear trunk bag holding the battery to your mid drive motor. Do you have a link to that bag? Love how you modified the AR Grizzly to the Cocaine Bear just sharpe looking! Thanks!
I think the way to get more torque from the mid drive off the line would be to go with a significantly smaller chainring. Ex: the front chainring on the Sur Ron type mid drives bikes that have so much kick that the front wheel pops up easily are in the 14T-16T range. Of course this would come at the cost of ghost pedalling kicking in at a lower speed, but you aren't building a triple-motor bike if pedalling is a priority.
Love that you experimenting and test outrageous ideas - thats how we learn and have fun!
I love this build, but ya like others have said controller upgrades (if available) would have yielded better results, and no added weight.
Maybe I will look into designing bigger controllers for it. Do you think there is demand for that?
Could it be the wheel size? How is it using the rear hub and mid drive together then adding in the front hub after your moving so it won't spin
Nice, my fastest 0-50km(31mph) is 4 seconds on a 500w geared rear hub running on a 40a kt controller+ BBSHD. 52v
Should've gotten a BBSHD, rock the full 1000w, maybe even try to get your hands on one from Luna Cycles with a Ludacris V2 motor controller update.
I've always thought about having a triple motor ebike setup. But my conception was having a class-1 (PAS only) mid-drive equipped with throttle only mode dual hub motors. Generally I like to peddle, it doesn't feel natural for me not to peddle when I'm on a bike. And have the throttle when I want to ride standing on the peddles or I'm completely spent on a ride. I'm not at all crazed about the speed. So, I'd prefer the mid-drive to be as powerful as the 2 hub motors combined. Maybe 1000w mid-drive, and 2x500w hub motors. I definitely don't want my bike to weigh even a hair more than 100lbs, before I add my 250lbs bulk.
Is such a setup possible?
Cocaine bear story is pretty cool! Happy to see you heard of it. And great name for that bike!
interesting to see 3 motored ebike!
They make a gearshift sensor when it notices the shift cables movement it kills the motor for a second. Anyway impressive sir 👍
Got me thinking about mid drive on my hyper scorpion. But may not be practical.
Came out awesome, I’m sure you’ll refine some quarks over time. There has to be a way to eliminate the hesitation on launch, probably need to adjust the max amp limit at low rpm or something along those lines (not familiar with mid drive Bafang). I wonder if not using the shift/gear sensor has something to do with it?
🐍11-inch gear test
Citizenbike is a beast...💪🏾💪🏾
Yes that bike is just set up well 😊
Hi...That was fun! What if the mid drive was in the next higher gear for the acceleration test? Might it continue to give you increase power as you go?
In 2nd gear, the mid drive provided assistance up to about 18 to 20 miles per hour.
@@CitizenCycle925 would of been interesting to see what a 3rd gear run would do. Spreading the powerband of the motor combination. Well done mate!
Love the name and graphics! Maybe I'm wrong here, but I would think that having a rear hub motor should reduce the stress on the drivetrain from the mid drive. Is your collaboration build a bike that will be offered as a production model for retail? Or will it be a one-off custom build?
The collab build will not be offered for sale, however I am working on a product that I will be offering for sale in the near future. I should have a prototype soon and have a debut video before end of year 😁
@@CitizenCycle925 can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve. Thank you for your reply!
Hi I have a 48v 350 watt motor hub can a 48v 500 watt controller be safe to run it? Plz help
I would have just gone 72v. You should try it. You'll like it. 😊
You do have room for a sail on those front bars. You are welcome 😂😅
Those bikes are fun machines for sure.
Do you store your batteries anywhere special in the coldest months ?
All my batteries just stay in the garage, doesn't get very cold in there plus I have a space heater for the really cold nights.
Hey citizen I Loved your video on the T7 that’s one attractive bike!
I currently have an aerial rider Kepler it hits 32mph easy tops out at 34-36 on a completely flat grade want some more acceleration tho… which is better wired or grizzly I know you have both which would you recommend . For range and over all rating
The grizzly definitely out accelerates the Wired bike. The wired has a higher top speed though. I'm not sure which one is better for range. Never did a range test on the grizzly.
Can you upgrade the controllers to 45amp
But is 1/2 a second and maybe 10lbs more torque with 2 mph worth the cost of a middrive/third battery & controller+setup???
🐍 Racing 2 different size controllers against each other is like racing a 2-barrel carb against a 4-barrel carb. It's not a race, it's just verifying the obvious.🖖🤙
what a cool experiment. next, a 1500w mid drive motor? lol....
Do a test with the new cyc x1 pro gen 4 mid drive motor
Johnny Neard Out may have some answers for you. Look him up! Great videos 👍
Yeah, tires look like serious business
I absolutely love your videos ........ I watch everyone. My only question is ...... Why do you never show a "GPS" app on your phone on the handlebars showing your top speed comparisons with your Citizen E-Bike?
Next time I do a video on Citizen bike I will include it for you. Top speed is about 37mph on that bike. it's built for acceleration 😁
I want that bike 😂🤣🫶🏼I know u are more concerned with takeoff and speed but I'm curious on what degree of hill climbing that cocaine bear can handle with those 3 motors set to level 5! I love the torque factor the most! Great job on your experiment friend! Great channel 👍🏼 I just subscribed ✌🏼🤘🏼❤️🔥
What's the 0 to 30 mph on it
If you could only keep 3 e-bikes, which would you keep?
Not counting my custom citizen bike, I would say Grizzly, Ocelot, and Wired.
You should try my home made e bike,, dual direct drive hubs, dual 30A controllers both shunt modded.. 1 throttle,1 s900 display that can still program both controllers . 48/20Ah,and an auxiliary 48/22.4Ah on a battery either or switch. I have auto cruse, regen braking, no pas. I was going to use a battery blender, but because I have regenerative braking I can't use it w/out damaging it.That is why I switch between batteries. i have a video of the bike if you want to look, it doesn't explain much tho.
On your 4.0 as long as you use 1 power source sharing both controllers you could eliminate one of the screens and throttle by just connecting the sensor wire of each secondary controller to the other sensor wire from primary controller. put a 3way switch on throttle sensor wires to switch between 1 and 2 motors. They have to be identical with same production software.
As far as delay on start could be either because 1 controller is not shunt modded,or in settings of one of them, like start strength ,or pas assist strength.
Did you say you were getting a CYC Gen 3 for the Havoc X2? 😂
The third motor mod is definitely over kill for the grizzly. Doesn’t really add much but it made for interesting content. Would be better for a single motor ebike
Grizzly to Cocaine Bear! 😂 The best!
All I care about in the comparison is the 32.5 !!! Not really enough difference from the upgrades on the other one.
But it was an interesting engineering project.
You say pedal assist is now run by the mid-drive? That may be why you lose torque sooner on the speed run versus the CC bike. Are the other 2 motors on Bear getting no torque input besides throttle position (you removed torque sensor), and mid-drive is doing it all?
The 2 hub motors are only run by the throttle. The stock cadence sensor was removed.
@@CitizenCycle925 yes, but isn't the rear hub motor limited on throttle only, without additional torque input from crank?; and would not that mean the mid-drive cannot override the rear hub even if the mid-drive is inputting more torque (because no torque sensor remains)?
Basically I'm thinking out loud, because on the hillclimb test it seemed the Bear was better, where top speed is not reached nor is it the objective.
For speed test, the rear hub is locking you out when you go for top speed?
Yeah, it’s for the gear sensor buddy.
Thanks, I'm not sure if I'll add that.
I look forward to simply working with you.
if you started in first gear with the cocaine bear and shifted up as you went the motor would be in power for much longer. This is important as the mid drive motor powers directly through the cassete drive train,
If I was doing it longer Drag race shifting may be helpful. This was only 150 feet. In 2nd gear The mid drive provided assistance up to about 18 to 20 miles per hour.
Is that an FZ1 😮 oh second look it's the Kawi 😔
Versys650
Cocaine Bear 🤣
That’s Awesome!🤣
Love it
You could try 60volts on your bike maybe
Nice !!
you amped up the pedal assist to max
Cocaine Bear. Dude that is too funny of a name for a bike. Legit laughed outloud. I still like your Citizen Bike better.
Oh man oh man Cocaine Bear , I love it lol lol lol
I would’ve threw a CYC pro 3 X1 mid drive instead of that Bafang 10 times better than that mid drive motor and you could’ve thrown a 72 V battery on there you would’ve been doing over 50 miles an hour oh well maybe next time
Like to set up but don't like the name don't like the cocaine part
Reference to the movie 😊
You sent $500.00 more to make it 1 mph faster and an extra 1 NM of torque? 😂 what a waste of money!
I think the idea is he does this so others don't have to, hence the channel ;)
You forgot 0.5 faster. If you take motor and battery out. Probably almost same. But 500 bucks in pocket 😂
Its 120nm torque on the bbs02. but only if you’re in the right gears shifting it. With 2 hubs the mid drive probably only needs a low , mid, and high gear. Don’t need a bunch of gears
Hey now you know the results! 😊 was fun experiment though.
Overkill
Cocaine Bear 😅
I think if you leaned forward to stop front wheel spin, you should get a faster time. But I think for a 1 mph increase, it’s a waste of $$ & time.