NIce. You tricked us. We were all ready to do sketch patterns and you showed that just by adding the fillet in the sketch and continue to use the regular pattern was faster. Very nice
Great content Toby! Some behind the scenes info: A sketch pattern creates multiple closed contours. The Parasolid solver for the cut must evaluate each profile and determine if it intersects with another. The greater number of profiles, the great number of profiles to check each profile against. (Time increases exponentially). A feature pattern is patterning the simple cut operation. Using geometry pattern doesn’t pattern the cut in a direction, it is calculating a virtual body from the material which was removed, patterning that body, and doing a simple bulk subtract from the main body. Thanks for the video which validates the performance of the different types.
Wow! what an honor to have THE MAN himself, Mark Johnson, here in the comments! thanks for the insights and great to hear from you! Can you tell us why making that fillet as an explicit feature, then including it in the pattern, resulted in such a significant difference to the rebuild time? What's going on there?
@@TooTallToby Toby, happy to answer that. When you add and pattern a feature fillet (without geometry pattern) we are patterning the cut geometry and all the edges of the cut THEN the fillet operation to however many edges must be filleted. This is a user time saver (instead of manually picking all the edges) but from a solve time perspective, it is the same as adding XX number of individual fillets. Using geometry pattern calculates the resultant geometry of the cut AND the filets, patterns that as a body, then subtracts as a single operation (like doing a pattern of multi bodies, then doing a single combine feature) Including the sketch fillets means the pattern feature (without geometry pattern) is simply patterning the simple (even with fillets) closed contour cut operation from XX number of profile instances (independent of each other).
That is super helpful to know! The remaining comparison we need now is the hole and filled as features and doing both as geometry pattern. Because I prefer to use features and feature patterns to have better overview and control over my model, especially when I have to revise it for whatever reason. So I avoid putting stuff like fillets or holes into sketches.
Awesome as always. I think a build on this content you could consider is showing how powerful a feature pattern is when the feature being patterned has more complex end conditions instead of a flat bottom box. Keep it coming man!
16 year SW veteran here. Good tips. This video needs a follow-up showing Fill Pattern. I find it to be the only usable feature for very large hole patterns.
Thanks for all the tutorials Toby! They are very educational and engaging! In your experience, is there a general rule for making the most efficient patterns? I get the impression that in principle sketch pattern should be avoided, not only for performance's sake. would you agree?
Awww yeah! Thanks so much PeakRC for the super thanks! Much appreciated! I agree - I think it's best to make a nice easy to understand feature tree. I think this is even more important than performance. So in the example in the video, I would probably make one rectangular cut with sharp corners, then add the 4 filleted corners, then make the pattern of these 2 features (even though it yields a longer performance). This leaves me with a nice easy to understand tree. And I like to experiment with GEOMETRY PATTERN, since that seems to significantly cut down on rebuild time, because when you use geometry pattern you are no longer dynamically solving each instance of the pattern, and instead you are just making a "blob" copy of the feature, in it's current geometric state. Also - I find that if you do a BLIND CUT, rather than an "up to surface" or a "through all", and then make a pattern of the cut, you get better performance than making a pattern of an up to surface or through all cut. Again - because the end condition is dynamically solving for all the instances in the pattern (unless you use geo-pattern). Hope this helps!
So cool Toby. When I watched your vidéo, i worked on a clamping colar wich have 129 patterns. Time to regénérate 10min.... And when i click on répétition géométry in the option... regénérate in 1,25s. Synchronicity. Thanks
thanks very much Stephane! Thats amazing that you reduced the rebuild time by so much!! And also that's amazing that you were working on that challenge right when this video came out!! We are all connected!
Thanks for sharing this video tootalltoby. Recently I am thinking about this how to check performance so its helpful for me. Make a video on Lightweight feature also i dont know much more about this feature.
@@TooTallToby okk Thanks iam waiting... Hello tootalltoby iam facing one issue that is :- In part Shaded and Draft quality is enable but in assembly it is disable so what to do now to enable in assembly ? video link : drive.google.com/file/d/1_37H3ZDPv08KXWDdIiqUWwYWkLi9m3KR/view?usp=drivesdk
Thank you for sharing , though sometimes you should choose between speed and functionality. Having something as a feature sometimes is worth it , since you can suppress it at any time while suppressing an item like fillet in a sketch is not possible.
Might be a silly question, but does geometry pattern exist at the sketch level in SolidWorks? I tried some similar experiments in build123d and I did not see a huge impact in performance (0.2 seconds between the slowest and fastest). I was also surprised that build123d (which runs on OCCT -- the same kernel as FreeCAD) was not that much slower than SolidWorks at ~1 second.
It's not exactly the same as geometry pattern, but f you make the sketch a block (Tools > Blocks > Make Block) and do a sketch pattern of the block instead of the sketch entities I've seen improved performance.
Not really - I'll make a video soon on how geometry pattern works, but the basic idea is this: A regular feature pattern will solve the features being patterned dynamically, meaning each instance of the pattern needs to be recalculated. But the "geometry pattern" option overrides this dynamic solving, and simply makes a "blob copy" of each instance of the pattern. Since there is no dynamic solving, this means that the rebuild time can be reduced significantly. However, in a sketch pattern, the default is that the patterned instances only have a reference back to the original instance. For example - if you patterned a horizontal line, the patterned instances wouldn't be solving a horizontal relationship, they would just be a copy of the original line. So, in essence, a sketch pattern IS using GEOMETRY PATTERN functionality already. I like brandon's point below - if you make a block and then pattern the block it could help with sketch performance. I can understand this because if you have 50 entities in your sketch, and then you sketch pattern these 5 times, you'll end up with a pattern relatioship on each instance of each entity on the pattern (so 250 pattern relationships). But if you make a block first, you'll only end up with 5 pattern relationships - 1 to each instance of the pattern. Hope this helps!
NIce. You tricked us. We were all ready to do sketch patterns and you showed that just by adding the fillet in the sketch and continue to use the regular pattern was faster. Very nice
lol - a little - trying to teach people to fish, not just give them fish!!
Great content Toby! Some behind the scenes info: A sketch pattern creates multiple closed contours. The Parasolid solver for the cut must evaluate each profile and determine if it intersects with another. The greater number of profiles, the great number of profiles to check each profile against. (Time increases exponentially).
A feature pattern is patterning the simple cut operation. Using geometry pattern doesn’t pattern the cut in a direction, it is calculating a virtual body from the material which was removed, patterning that body, and doing a simple bulk subtract from the main body.
Thanks for the video which validates the performance of the different types.
Wow! what an honor to have THE MAN himself, Mark Johnson, here in the comments! thanks for the insights and great to hear from you!
Can you tell us why making that fillet as an explicit feature, then including it in the pattern, resulted in such a significant difference to the rebuild time? What's going on there?
@@TooTallToby Toby, happy to answer that.
When you add and pattern a feature fillet (without geometry pattern) we are patterning the cut geometry and all the edges of the cut THEN the fillet operation to however many edges must be filleted. This is a user time saver (instead of manually picking all the edges) but from a solve time perspective, it is the same as adding XX number of individual fillets.
Using geometry pattern calculates the resultant geometry of the cut AND the filets, patterns that as a body, then subtracts as a single operation (like doing a pattern of multi bodies, then doing a single combine feature)
Including the sketch fillets means the pattern feature (without geometry pattern) is simply patterning the simple (even with fillets) closed contour cut operation from XX number of profile instances (independent of each other).
That is super helpful to know! The remaining comparison we need now is the hole and filled as features and doing both as geometry pattern. Because I prefer to use features and feature patterns to have better overview and control over my model, especially when I have to revise it for whatever reason. So I avoid putting stuff like fillets or holes into sketches.
Oh thanks Toby, it was one of my questions in one of the earlier videos. This really clears it out for me. Thanks a lot!
Awesome! I love it when that happens!!
There is always something new, if not it’s just fun to watch your videos, thank you Toby
Aww yeah!! Thanks Auday!
Thanks for the great tips! It was surprising how much those fillets impacted the feature pattern rebuild time.
Awww yeah Thanks Victor! yeah I was surprised by that too!! Thanks for the super thanks bro - much appreciated!
Thank you Toby for this tip,
The performance evaluation is completely new to me.
Awesome blueray! Glad this helped!
Awesome as always. I think a build on this content you could consider is showing how powerful a feature pattern is when the feature being patterned has more complex end conditions instead of a flat bottom box. Keep it coming man!
Yeah great point and THANKS for the kind words!!
16 year SW veteran here. Good tips. This video needs a follow-up showing Fill Pattern. I find it to be the only usable feature for very large hole patterns.
Thanks PaxterEndo - I'll try to make one on the FILL PATTERN sometime soon!
Thank you , Toby!
My pleasure Dragos!
Thanks for all the tutorials Toby! They are very educational and engaging! In your experience, is there a general rule for making the most efficient patterns? I get the impression that in principle sketch pattern should be avoided, not only for performance's sake. would you agree?
Awww yeah! Thanks so much PeakRC for the super thanks! Much appreciated!
I agree - I think it's best to make a nice easy to understand feature tree. I think this is even more important than performance. So in the example in the video, I would probably make one rectangular cut with sharp corners, then add the 4 filleted corners, then make the pattern of these 2 features (even though it yields a longer performance). This leaves me with a nice easy to understand tree.
And I like to experiment with GEOMETRY PATTERN, since that seems to significantly cut down on rebuild time, because when you use geometry pattern you are no longer dynamically solving each instance of the pattern, and instead you are just making a "blob" copy of the feature, in it's current geometric state.
Also - I find that if you do a BLIND CUT, rather than an "up to surface" or a "through all", and then make a pattern of the cut, you get better performance than making a pattern of an up to surface or through all cut. Again - because the end condition is dynamically solving for all the instances in the pattern (unless you use geo-pattern).
Hope this helps!
@@TooTallToby I'll give geometry pattern a go next time I'm patterning. Thanks again!
Thanks for sharing Toby.
Sure thing Barry!
Great vid, Toby, thank you!!!!
Thanks glad you liked this one!
Wow fantastic!
Awww yeah!!!!
So cool Toby. When I watched your vidéo, i worked on a clamping colar wich have 129 patterns. Time to regénérate 10min.... And when i click on répétition géométry in the option... regénérate in 1,25s. Synchronicity. Thanks
thanks very much Stephane! Thats amazing that you reduced the rebuild time by so much!! And also that's amazing that you were working on that challenge right when this video came out!! We are all connected!
Never thought about suppressing certain features to have faster loading times, but I sometimes did it intuitively
Nice!!
Amazing trick 🎉
Yeah this is great to know for analyzing complex part trees
Thanks for sharing this video tootalltoby. Recently I am thinking about this how to check performance so its helpful for me. Make a video on Lightweight feature also i dont know much more about this feature.
Awesome thanks SolidTrouble! I'll try to do one on lightweight soon!
@@TooTallToby okk Thanks iam waiting...
Hello tootalltoby iam facing one issue that is :-
In part Shaded and Draft quality is enable but in assembly it is disable so what to do now to enable in assembly ?
video link : drive.google.com/file/d/1_37H3ZDPv08KXWDdIiqUWwYWkLi9m3KR/view?usp=drivesdk
uugggh! virtual sharps are the last thing I want to see, ill be using the feature pattern, patterning both the cut extrude + the fillet.
lol - totally agree!
good stuff
Thanks Eric!
Thank you for sharing , though sometimes you should choose between speed and functionality. Having something as a feature sometimes is worth it , since you can suppress it at any time while suppressing an item like fillet in a sketch is not possible.
Agree Frank - totally - just wanted people to know how to measure the impact of their decisions :-)
Might be a silly question, but does geometry pattern exist at the sketch level in SolidWorks?
I tried some similar experiments in build123d and I did not see a huge impact in performance (0.2 seconds between the slowest and fastest). I was also surprised that build123d (which runs on OCCT -- the same kernel as FreeCAD) was not that much slower than SolidWorks at ~1 second.
It's not exactly the same as geometry pattern, but f you make the sketch a block (Tools > Blocks > Make Block) and do a sketch pattern of the block instead of the sketch entities I've seen improved performance.
Not really - I'll make a video soon on how geometry pattern works, but the basic idea is this:
A regular feature pattern will solve the features being patterned dynamically, meaning each instance of the pattern needs to be recalculated. But the "geometry pattern" option overrides this dynamic solving, and simply makes a "blob copy" of each instance of the pattern. Since there is no dynamic solving, this means that the rebuild time can be reduced significantly.
However, in a sketch pattern, the default is that the patterned instances only have a reference back to the original instance. For example - if you patterned a horizontal line, the patterned instances wouldn't be solving a horizontal relationship, they would just be a copy of the original line. So, in essence, a sketch pattern IS using GEOMETRY PATTERN functionality already.
I like brandon's point below - if you make a block and then pattern the block it could help with sketch performance. I can understand this because if you have 50 entities in your sketch, and then you sketch pattern these 5 times, you'll end up with a pattern relatioship on each instance of each entity on the pattern (so 250 pattern relationships). But if you make a block first, you'll only end up with 5 pattern relationships - 1 to each instance of the pattern.
Hope this helps!
1min silence for those who left the video in between thinking sketch patter is better
lol - Totally - ya gotta watch to the end!!
Sorry Toby I dont like THIS vidio of yours>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I LOVE all your Vidios🥰😂
lol - nice thanks Michael!