Who's funding? Why this one? New missing episode animation announced! │Doctor Who News
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- Опубліковано 10 сер 2023
- The BBC have announced a brand new missing episode animation to be released on DVD and Blu-ray in November 2023. the 2nd Doctor story 'The Underwater Menace'
But who is funding it? and why this story?
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Nothing in ze world will stop them now!!
I personally love the underwater menace. it's just the right amount of camp.
Good to hear. As I say, I’ve never really looked into the story in any form so I have no opinions on it as yet. Looking forward to finding out what I think.
"NOTHING IN THE WORLD CAN STOP ME NOW!"
@@CulturePhilterHi Philip hope they do the wheel in space in 2024
It was a crazy one, I was embarrassed to watch it. And what's up with giving Patrick the terrible hats? This episode felt like they put Flash Gordon (Prof. Zaroff/Zarkov) episode and 20000 Leagues Under the Sea into a blender and then salvaged what they could.
Thanks for the video Philip!
My pleasure 🙂
interestingly, the two missing eps of the underwater menace was originally going to be animated by planet 55 for the dvd release in 2014. for reasons unknown, even though planet 55 had already started pre-production on it, the bbc just dropped the animation and just had the missing parts 1 and 4 as telesnap reconstructions. when the doctor who restoration team suggested that they should do the recons, they were told "no thanks".
I think it’s very much a matter of personal taste, but I love The Underwater Menace. It’s probably one of the earliest instances of The 2nd Doctor feigning innocence whilst deliberately interfering and I think Josef Furst as Professor Zaroff is very entertaining - pompous, self-righteous and paranoid.
The representation of the Fish People is really good considering the tiny budget, but for me though, the slightly childish, spiteful delivery of “May The Wrath of Amdo ENGULF You!!” is absolutely worth watching the whole thing for!
It’s one of the more whimsical classic stories, for sure, but that doesn’t diminish it in my eyes. Lots to enjoy!
The extra ,The man from Miditz is the first episode of a 1964 BBC historical drama called the Midnight men that both Patrick Troughton and Joseph furst appeared in ,so that rare episode (the only one surviving) is nice to have as an extra
Ooo that’ll be interesting to watch
"I've never seen Atlantis in the Doctor Who universe" - presumably owns a copy of The Time Monster from behind his back.
Not in the individual DVDs. But I do have the Season 9 collection Blu-Ray set…. I just haven’t gotten around to watching it yet.
Atlantis was shown in Jon Pertwee's era, The Time Monster I believe!
Yes I believe you are right, although I’ve never seen that one either.
Fantastic news , the design of the Animated Atlanteans looks really cool , Disney+ is a possibility but they’re haemorrhaging money left right and centre
"Nothing in the World can stop me now!!"
Honestly, I don't get the hate for the UInderwater Menace. Everyone involved knows exactly what they're doing and exactly how camp it is, and no one holds back. Sheer poetry.
Doctor who Celestial toymaker steelbook has just been released. I'll definitely pick this story up.
I keep forgetting to order that.
They are also animating The Celestial Toymaker.
That’s not confirmed though. Just a rumor. It’d made sense though given the character is likely in 60th.
@@CulturePhilter Correct it has not been announced. Yet it is in production. No idea when it will be announced officially but it probably should not be long. Underwater Menace and The Celestial Toymaker are not the only ones they are doing. There are two more.
I have a few speculations as to why they picked The Underwater Menace;
- Only 4 episodes
- 50% complete with detailed telesnaps so easier to copy the original camera directions etc
- Character models already exist
- Pretty much one set in which all the action takes place.
Incidentally if you've seen 'The Time Monster' then you have seen A Dr Who version of Atlantis 😜
Being able to copy the camera directions is an interesting one.
@CulturePhilter Yeah. I definitely don't claim to be an expert but there's a commentary on one of the eps they've animated when it already exists that touches on it. They say that OK it's nice to have freedom but as they use the original audio and it's from the era it is they have to justify every little noise etc in the animation, which can mean looking for ages as to like "oh Pat knocked a table here so we have to animate the table and put it where the sound came from" etc. Hope that long-winded response makes sense lol.
@@MarvelManMike82 it does indeed 🙂
Great comment. The Time Monster had such a convoluted storyline that it's forgivable to not remember Atlantis being featured in it.
after underwater menace i think there's about 11 serials left to completed by animated episodes
That’s not bad. Hopefully we’ll get them all done eventually
we don't have a troughton season boxed set as yet, maybe thats why!
Good point. He’s looking rather left out in that regard.
I have surprised myself by how much I've loved the animations, after being a bit tentative, and I'm really glad they're coming back. For some missing stories/episodes it might be the closest we get to seeing the originals! I would like to see more Hartnell stories animated, I really liked Galaxy 4
Totally agree there should be more Hartnells done. Which would you want first out of his?
@@CulturePhilter The Daleks master plan would be the dream, but it would be best to spend more time on it I think and put it out in 2024 or 2025. I think The Celestial Toymaker would look great in an animation, so I think that would be my next choice.
@@1976stoney - Celestial Toymaker would also make sense if Neil Patrick Harris’s character in 60th IS him. Would tie in nicely to release it within a few months of that coming out.
Bit weird if they're focusing on season 4 when both season 5 and 6 only have one story left each
I am just glad that we are still going to be able to get a Animated reconstructions again. I hope they will be able to finish off series 1 and four. Still waiting for them to do “the Daleks’ Master Plan”.
That’s definitely the ‘Holy Grain’ of potential animations isn’t it ? 😁
It's the tartan patterns in The Highlanders that seem to be the difficult part. In the revamped version of Power of the Daleks, they got rid of the plaid pattern on the Doctor's pants because they felt it didn't work.
Perhaps they could simplify the tartness a lot. (Obviously you can’t completely remove them)
@@CulturePhilter They just made the Doctor's pants plain grey in the revamped Power of the Daleks animation. :(
@@jaydemetrick8399 - true but I don’t think that would work for kilts. You need SOME kind of Chequers pattern or they just don’t look like kilts.
@@CulturePhilter Exactly.
The animation looks interesting. It seems to be a mix of both animation teams (BBC Studios who did Shada, Faceless Ones, Evil of the Daleks and Big Finish who did Fury from the Deep, Galaxy 4, Abominable Snowmen). Seems to be a joint effort between both. I imagine character animation & character design was done by one team (BBC Studios) and backgrounds & layouts were done by the other (Big Finish). From the teaser, the characters look like they’re in the same art style as seen in Evil of the Daleks (the 2nd Doctor & Jamie models are the same from Evil, with Jamie being in the wrong costume), but the backgrounds & layouts of characters is more similar to the Big Finish animations (which I personally don’t like).
Some people say that because it was said in The Mirror back in January that both Underwater Menace & The Smugglers were getting animated (as well as colourised 60s Doctor Who episodes), a Smugglers animation is basically confirmed, but I still wouldn’t say Smugglers or full colourised 60s episodes is 100% confirmed because of this. I remember back in 2018 when The Mirror said Macra Terror was being aniamted, they also said Wheel in Space. And while it technically wasn’t wrong as a part of Ep. 1 was animated, we still don’t have a full one.
Some info mixes up & we don’t get exactly what was said.
. Underwater Menace animated = ✅
. Smugglers aniamted =❔
. Colourised 60s Doctor Who =❔
What we might get instead of Smugglers being animated & fully colourised 60s Who is instead just the surviving clips of The Smugglers l being colourised (which just happened) & just Underwater Menace animated
But, I am hoping to be wrong there 🤞
What I will say tho is in that original January Mirror article, it did say that the funding for these new animations was not from Disney, so we can scratch that potential off for now…
As for future animations, I actually DON’T want them to do animation for Marco Polo just yet. That story is an epic majestic masterpiece and the idea of that one being rushed to animate just to put on The Collection Sets is not a good or logical reason. It wouldn’t even make sense from a marketing point of view as surly BBC Worldwide would want to release Marco Polo on its own first & make money from those sales, wait a bit, and than put it on a collection boxset. It’s not good for marketing or business to make an animation just for the sake of putting on The Collection Sets.
Basically what I’m saying is:
“Take your time on Marco Polo! Don’t rush animations of media which is likely to be lost forever, just for the sake of Collection sets!”
True. I don’t want them to rush it. I’m just hoping they’ve already been secretively working on it for years so it’s not rushed but will still come out this year 😄
With The Underwater Menace getting it's special edition at last, there's only three Second Doctor stories left to be animated. Those stories being "The Highlanders", "The Wheel in Space", and "The Space Pirates". With three Troughton Era stories left to go, I imagine they will probably go through and get them all animated. And with the rumor of The Smugglers getting animated (that rumor has more credibility now), I imagine late 60's entries in The Collection are next up.
Could be. Still wish we were getting a season 1 this year though
If the rumors are true that the Smugglers is also coming out, then I think this is an effort to complete season 4. Even though they've said they have no plans for the Highlanders, I do think it'll happen one day. I've been a fan for more than 35 years and most of the stuff they said they would never do, they've done. I've learned to never say never.
So do you think they might do this and smugglers and then release Season 4 collection set with Highlanders as a Reconstruction?
@@CulturePhilterthere has been rumours that a few missing episodes have been found/located. Among these particular episodes, it’s believed to include Smugglers Episodes 2 & 4 and Highlanders Episode 2. Take this with a massive grain of salt, but I would like to believe that this is true.
@@ruairiedwards8616 that would be great.
@@CulturePhilter It's certainly my personal speculation. Based on what happened with Season 2, I can imagine that the team behind the Collection sets is okay with episodes from ONE missing/incomplete serial from each 60's season being represented by tele-snap reconstructions.
The missing non-animated episodes at the moment:
-Season 1 has all 7 eps of Marco Polo (no tele-snaps for Ep 4)
-Season 2 had 2 eps of The Crusade
-Season 5 has 4 eps of The Wheel in Space
-Season 6 has 5 eps of Space Pirates (no tele-snaps)
-Season 4 has 4 eps of The Highlanders; with The Smugglers rumoured and Underwater Menace confirmed for animation
-Season 3 has Mission to the Unknown and 5 other serials; with The Savages being the only one with tele-snaps
Season 3 is obviously quite far away, and there's still room for any of them to be animated (we all have our preferences) but this is what I imagine makes the most sense without having to animate everything.
I've already pre ordered it, have to wait until November though.
Very eager 🙂
Hopefully Dalek Masterplan is on the cards too. 🤞
That one is like the holy grail of missing episode potential animations.
Love TUM. It's one of my favourites and it's pure fun. This one is finally getting the justice it deserves as it was supposed to get one back in 2012. All of the half complete ones were getting done but this was cancelled and the Crusade ignored.
I personally hope The Celestial Toymaker is next given he is returning.
I think get one more of season 4 done, then alternate season 3 and a story to complete a season.
I do think season 2 blurry should have been held off for a an animation though.
Every season bar a 3 and 4 need 1 story now. And season 4 is down to 2 with TUM.
Marco Polo and Daleks Master Plan should be the last 2 imo given their popularity and their length.
Yeah I wish they had held off with season 2 as well. Guess they were just keen to release at least one 60s series so they didn’t have them bunched all at the end in several years time.
Looking forward to the way animation flows the whole plot seamlessly. It was ahead of its time and needed a bigger production budget with better set tech.
I presume already having the character designs for the Doctor and companions, would also result in at least a modest saving with this story.
Good point.
Lovely to hear that they're doing these again, even if I'm still massively behind on seeing these animations. I've not seen Galaxy 4, Evil of the Daleks or Abominable Snowmen yet, I've found myself spending what would have gone towards these on the blu ray sets the last little while. I will need to catch up at some point. Underwater Menace is fine, it's not great, but like most stories people really hate it's really not that bad. I watched the loose canon reconstruction of parts 1 and 4 along with the existing two episodes back when I was doing my last full watch of everything, some time between 2013 and 2016, I had a fun enough time with it. I've got the original dvd, though I haven't actually watched it since I got that.
Going to potentially pull out the "um actually" card, you mention you've not seen Atlantis in the doctor who universe, but they also go there in The Time Monster with Jon Pertwee, haven't you seen that? Maybe you haven't.
I HAVENT seen Time Monster, no. I’ve probably only seen about half of Classic Who. Shameful, I know 😄
@@CulturePhilter In fairness, you're not missing much with that one, it alternates between being kind of dull and being exceedingly silly.
@@CulturePhiltertime monster has a bad rap. I think it's fine though, not a stand out.
Very happy the animations are back! Season 1, 5 & 6 only have one story left to animate for a complete ish season which is exciting for the collection. Season 3 is a whole kettle of fish (no pun intended haha)
I've said it before but the Daleks & Cybermen now have only one story each left to animate and then you could theoretically release a special. Box Set of "every classic Dalek story/Cybermen story". Maybe even package the set with a limited edition figure or collectible etc.
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if Season 3 was the very last Collection set to be released.
Great idea.
I hope we get more of these older episodes on DVD. Disney may have stopped all DVD releases of the new series... at least that's what I choose to believe, until proven otherwise. Happy to hear that this will be released with new animation. Physical media is far from dead, in my opinion...
There was a rumor of them colorizing some classic stories too, I hope this is true. I really wanna see some of these stories fully colorized.
That could be interesting but so much of the filming choices were made to take advantage of black and white I’m always a bit doubtful about how effective colorization is
@@CulturePhilter Everyone has differing opinions on this topic, but personally from all the colorization attempts I've seen from the community, they add a lot to the stories, so I'll like them to be done in some official capacity.
@@sadmanadib8536 it’d certainly be an interesting alternative
We’re back in business!!!
In multiple senses 😁
I don't think u underwater menace is that bad. I think part of its reputation is down to being surrounded by some great stuff.
Possibly.
if we trust that the smugglers is next every series besides series 3 will need 1 animation
my guess is we will get mostly s6 episodes with a addition of another
I was hoping they would animate Marco Polo so we could get a season 1 set announced at 60th but given they might have issues with An Unearthly child now that’s looking even more unlikely
Could Brit Box be funding some costs?
Underwater Menace is a guilty pleasure - villain is totally barking and OTT but in a good way. Seeing it in colour will be interesting. The previous dvd is not the best n terms of quality etc.
I have a theory that it might be because Underwater Menace has half the episodes in full they picked it first. Other episodes like Daleks master plan or The Highlanders are completely wiped so maybe they are saving them for later
How does that help them if they are animating the whole thing anyway though?
i do wonder why they re-animated it from scratch and not just released the original animations that the first disc had
I haven’t seen any original animations. I was under the impression that they just had reconstructions from tele-snaps on the original release of the DVD but maybe I’m wrong, I haven’t watched that DVD.
I’ve always wondered how the Atlantis in this story coincides with one Atlantis in a later Doctor’s story? I don’t want to mention the story by name in case you haven’t seen it.
I know of the other one but haven’t actually seen either.
Do you recommend standard or Blu-Ray. Quality can’t be much of a difference surely. Do they have the exact same special features on both? This goes for all the animation DVD’s.
Exact same content. I can’t speak to the quality of image difference as I’ve always just got the DVDs so they fit in with all my other classic series DVDs on my shelf
'The Smugglers' was filmed entirely on location in Cornwall. That might make it a bit more difficult to animate. Now, I'd LOVE to see 'The Crusade' animated - the quality of the remaining episode made me hungry for more. The two that the fans really want, though, are 'Marco Polo', and the behemoth that is 'Mission To The Unknown/The Daleks' Masterplan'. Any Who completist would love to see those.
'The Underwater Menace' is a slightly daft slow burner, hampered further by the stage chewing histrionics of it's main bad guy, Professor Zaroff, as portrayed by Joseph Furst. Not really a fan of this one - it's one of the very few Target novelisations I could not finish, due to tedium. Sorry.
Yes Marc Polo and Master Plan would certainly be the two I’d be most excited for.
Di$ney definitely isn’t funding it. The company is bleeding cash and Disney Plus is losing millions of subscribers. The company is in turmoil with blockbuster loses. The Beeb has to be footing the bill. For one they know that if they didn’t deliver something for the 60th anniversary the fans would be coming after them with pitchforks and torches. My guess is the BBC will continue to fund the animations albeit at a slower pace on reduced budgets. Maybe 1 each year. We were getting 2 per year before the Abominable Snowmen.
The fish people just look like fish. They've not properly done it!
I mean from the brief footage I’ve seen the original first people looked like regular people with weird goggles on and bits of fabric hanging off them…. So arguably it’s an improvement.
Dig out the colour set photos and see what the animators COULD have done!@@CulturePhilter
I realise the choice would be for financial considerations, but, for the 60th anniversary? Meagre fare.
Hmmmm. Yes, doing Marco Polo would have felt fitting because it completes the 1sts season on its 60th anniversary or something big like Dalek Master Plan would have also felt fitting.
But it is better than nothing.
Do you think we will get a season 4 collection boxset that's what I think
It looks like they are trying to complete that season so maybe not this year but possibly next year
Given the current schedule of two a year it will be a DECADE before they get to season 4.
The Highlanders, yes, a multitude of the Clans foght in the 1745-6 Jacobite Rebellion. I have visited Culloden, and while American, my Parents lived in Derby, the furthest south the Scots got in Winter, and there is a statue of The Prince on his horse, near the cathedral.
I learned about Culloden through the Target novel when I was 14 years. 🏴
All the tartan, and red military uniform, and some locations. I would be estatic for animation,…but, they may just have to do a high quality recon.
The Smugglers, rumor or animation. Then the colorized clips done by BBC. Could also be a recon. 🐟
They could release a Season 4 box next year. Fans would buy it. Have a disclaimer at the start of disc 1, for some of these Sixties series “We, the BBC were clueless, we’re sorry. Enjoy our efforts to restore our error”. 🙄🖥️
I’ve heard that the Tarten would make animation more challenging and that’s why it hasn’t been done yet.
@@CulturePhilter D'not blame Scots Kilt-tartan. No fault o' it. It' cost an' time of animators.
With "underwater menace" they started with Jamie already changed out of his full Kilt-attire. Would not see Jamie in his full Kilt until "the Two Doctors" or "Tales in the TARDIS. in the original UM episodes, he still wears his kilt into episode 3....left the garb at Atlantis, and in the Moonbase, a more modern kilt and sweater.
With all the Clans that were at Culloden, and the Jacobite rebellion of 1745-'46, how would you determine all the Clan Tartan for each Scot -like on the prison ship-?
Likely, best hope for a Recon'. for the Blu-box.
If only we had a time machine...
Can’t wait to watch it, but god I wish they gave it a better art style than this shit. The artistic side of the missing animations have only really gone down since the beginning.
Edit: We haven’t had a genuinely well choreographed, natural movement, hand drawn looking animation. It all looks puppeted, so flat. As an artist myself it pains me to watch these pieces of shit.
And to prove I’m not some angry nerdy prick, I’ve been working on (The Crusade) as a missing episode animation. The missing episodes from that I’m reimagining, but I’m still on the character likeness phase.
We’ll see if I ever actually finish it lol.
Which has been you’re favourite animation style wise?
@@CulturePhilter The Moonbase was *perfect.*
@@Logan_Irrelevant I agree.
In terms of box sets, if the Highlanders is animated then I think they would split the season with the season 4 box set going from Power of the Daleks to Evil of the Daleks and then have the Smugglers and the Tenth Planet as part of a season 3 box set. It just makes sense to split it this way so Hartnell and Troughton stories are seperated. By the way, Atlantis was also featured in the Time Monster...
No! Those first 2 stories are part of season 4 just use William Hartnell's regeneration image on the cover with Patrick playing his flute with the regeneration of William Hartnell on the floor in the center of Patrick
Hmmmm I guess we haven’t had any of the seasons that have two doctor’s stories in yet have we. I’d actually prefer that the season is kept as thee season was. Although I’d get why for marketing purposes they might change this (especially as in American market they title them as like “2nd Doctor Season 1)
@@jerrancebowman965 Why would this be a big deal? The Twin Dilemma was added to the season 22 box set rather than being held back for a Season 21 release. I'm not the decision maker. I'm just saying it would make sense.
@@KelebrimbearXI have season 22 and twin dilemma is not part of that season even though it's colin Baker's first story it's the final story of season 21
@@jerrancebowman965 My mistake. I thought the Twin Dilemma has been included in the season 22 box set.
The Underwater Menace is probably my least favorite Patrick Throughton serial primarily due to the horrible costumes, long fiiller sequences (especially the swimming scenes) where nothing happens, and very weak special effects. I can understand why they chose this serial since it is one of the few where animation could significantly enhance the story by overcoming all the weaknesses mentioned. Animating all the episodes is a really great idea since they can make the creatures, sets, and effects look so much better than the live version. Just seeing the brief shots of the fish people animation gets me excited about this one!
The Underwater Menace was the last existing Throughton serial that I didn't already have so I broke down and bought it on DVD right after the BBC announced the end of the animations. I'm a huge Throughton fan but it was honestly difficult to watch in many places due to the poor costumes and plodding filler sequences
Someone needs to fund better animation redos of these. Lemme put it this way, these all look "Star Trek: The Animated Series" when they need to look "Star Trek: Lower Decks" to be watchable.
I’d love that. Although while they certainly could be better I wouldn’t go as far as saying they are unwatchable as is…. At least most of them aren’t
I really don't care about the order, I just want a complete set. I have everything up through Jodie Whittaker's first season, all the missing ones on CD, and a number of Big Finish. "The Timeless Children " ended new Doctor Who for me. I am so happy Big Finish is there.
Rubbish release original
The one they don’t have? 🤔