The 2013 returns were announced in the October (though maybe delayed due to stolen Web3). I guess we have exactly 4 months until Nov 23, if there no announcement by then we can all go back to sleep on the subject
Nor me. Some of the "bad" ones may better found so they are watchable and more like the enemy of the world and a gem that a recon or audio didn't do justice
@Joey15811 Yeah exactly. The Enemy of the World was once considered pretty boring, because the only episode we then had was episode 3, the absolute worst to base your judgement of the entire story on. The same could happen with others. :)
@michaelnorris3639 Yeah episode 2 is the absolute worst. I wish we had episodes 4-6, as that's when the story really gets going. It's not a perfect story, but I'd love to see more of it. :)
The thing is, if there's one thing that you can almost guarantee about every single one of these private collectors, they'll look after what they've got. The only thing to watch out for is what happens to the prints once they die? Let's just hope that something is able to be arranged and sorted out, before the prints get thrown away by the families. :)
@@BillWhovianI knew someone who some Patrick troughton with yeti as the enemy, I watched it on some big weird tape real thing he said he was only person who had access to it, he died in 90s, wonder what he done with it???
@@BillWhovian it was called .... Snowman something I think??? He was fascinated cause yetis where like robots I think they had the metal sphere circular ball inside them, it was long time ago, my memory's faint
I can't help thinking if the BBC were to announce the fact that there are missing episodes when a new episode of Doctor Who is aired this might get some results, or at least inform people and prevent the possibility of relatives of deceased collectors binning our media heritage.
There hasn’t been any fresh new lost episodes found since that last ones for it’s 50th anniversary ten years ago. It’s been a while but I’m still hoping. 🤞🤞
I hope so were so overdue for another recovery announcement it would make my 60th. Phillip Morris did say at a panel that the number of 97 will go down soon but the question is how soon is soon and how reliable is it true?.
Yes that's the thing with Morris' comments. He's promised the world to us fans for the past 10 years, and yet still nothing else has been officially announced as being returned to the BBC. :)
Re the Oz collection, as I understand the bulk of the material lost to landfill was on video cassettes and the model of video cassette recorders he had all postdated the last broadcast on Australian TV of missing Dr who. It seems the video reels from earlier video recorders may still exist. These would all be mid/late 60s to very early 70s. So possible he has a lot of missing who or also possibly absolutely nothing, it will take a very long time, as you say a decade or more, to play and transfer the potentially hundreds of tapes if that is even possble and for us to find out either way
Yes a lot of his collection was thrown away. So if he did record say the Space Pirates (the most likely missing story he would've recorded as that was repeated for the last time around the time he started using U-Matic tapes I think), the recording could've been among the ones thrown away. Then again, there were still thousands of his collection saved, so you never know. And yeah, we won't know until probably the 70th with how big the remaining collection is! 😆
@@BillWhovian if I understand the original podcast report correctly he also had a number of reel to reel video recorders that he aquired in about 1967/68 and possibly these tapes have not been thrown away, best to assume there's nothing though
@Da1Dez Mate, what I said about the 70th was a joke because of how big this Melbourne collection is. I think you need to stop rushing to conclusions that I'm the kind of person who likes to get his hopes up. Because I can assure you, I'm not.
@@Da1Dez luckily the type of recording tape used pre 1973 is more durable than those used after so if there is video reel tape from the late 60s it has a better chance of still being playable than the later cassettes, still not getting my hopes up though, I'm assuming there's nothing until I hear differently
Still hoping If it's first Doctor i hope it's either Daleks Master Plan or the Crusades If it's second Doctor i hope its either Fury From The Deep or Wheel in Space
@@BillWhovian all chapters yes Asides from 2, 5 and 10 as we already have those. Read some of the transcript of Daleks master plan and it's excellent. Just a shame that it's one of the stories that are missing :/ I'd like wheel in space as it was one of the many Doctor Who that my uncle worked on as a sound operator
@@BillWhovian unfortunately he passed away in 2009 but I do have some of the programmes he's done. Doctor Who, Dad's Army and Doomwatch were he was most credited on among others Doctor who ones he did were The Massacre (Bill Hartnell) Patrick Troughton: - Wheel In Space - Mind Robber - The Krotons Jon Pertwee : - Planet of The Spiders Tom Baker - Robot - Seeds Of Doom - Meglos - Full Circle - Keeper of Traken - Logopolis
deepfakes AI and CGI will be the only way to replace these episodes and this may take another 10 years to do. also with AI you could fix all the hartnell line fluffs so that he speaks every line perfect. imagine that
To be honest, I think AI is pretty iffy. There are some real ethical issues to take into account when using it to recreate performances from mostly people who are long gone. And to be honest, it's still a very new technology, so we can't really say for sure that it will have advanced to the point where it can recreate a TV episode in full in 10 years time. I'd prefer it if they stuck to reconstructions and animations personally
I think if any missing Doctor Who episode had been found it would have been announced by now. It would be big news on the BBC and other tv news channels. It is all wishful thinking.
Please God let this be the case. I’m hopeful cos of Phillip Morris recent comments and the story in the Mirror, but it might be just talk and not a recovery
Whilst the Mirror have gotten some stuff right in the past, they're ultimately still a tabloid newspaper, so you can't always be 100% sure that they're telling the truth about stuff. I hope something comes back though, even if it takes a few more years. :)
Good to hear that I'm not the only one haha 🤣 I imagine it'll be all sorts of reasons. Perhaps it being almost entirely missing doesn't help? Maybe it’s because it doesn't take itself too seriously, which not everyone is going to be a fan of? 🤔
@dddayesq5061 I don't know if it would be as popular as Enemy, but hopefully it would change a few attitudes to it. It's a shame that people are always making jokes of it, as I really don't think it's as bad as they say.
If you haven't already, check out Josh Snares' reconstruction of it. It is somewhat harder to watch all of it on UA-cam due to copyright, but it really helps bring the original TV version to life. That or the Loose Canon recon of course. :)
Paul Vanezis has said recently that for these collectors, it's all about trust. They're not just going to hand over something that they've had for decades over to a complete stranger. I understand it's frustrating but calling them names won't help, as that could further put them off ever giving them back (nobody ever likes being insulted). We don't even know for definite what kind of person each of them are. Only people who have ACTUALLY met them like Paul Vanezis would know that.
Why would a private collector who had episodes not arrange something with the BBC? In the past the BBC made it clear that they would only borrow the episodes to copy and that they collector could keep the original.
We can only guess as to their reasons why. Although we shouldn't be annoyed with the collector. They were the one who saved the episodes from destruction, and looked after them when the BBC didn't really care much for any old prints. Even if the episodes are never returned, at least we now know they're out there and being properly looked after. :)
@@BillWhovian If this selfish collector won't let the BBC at least copy them (surely he should receive some financial remuneration too?!) then those eps are stilll as good as forever lost!
@Paul_1971 I understand how frustrating it is that they haven't been returned. But we shouldn't start jumping to conclusions as to what kind of person the collector is, or why they haven't returned the episodes. That will just potentially make the chances of us seeing the episodes even less likely. :)
Remember City of Death? How 7 buyers would be willing to buy the Mona Lisa in private where no one would know they had it? Some collectors are like this and enjoy having something no one else has.
Well, like any missing episode being found, that would be great. It doesn't fully live up to it's potential as a story, but I would still like to see more of it. Let's hope they can find at least one more episode of it someday. :)
@@BillWhovian I was also thinking that maybe Russell Davies ideas for the 60th anniversary might have been influenced by something behind the scenes like this. Just a shot in the dark lol
It's just amazing that these collectors won't (at least) let the episodes they have get scanned then returned. What would be the harm. They would still have their originals and all of us would get to enjoy these epsiodes. It would even be courteous to (at least) tell us WHAT episodes they DO have to satisfy our curiosity . These "collectors" are terribly selfish.
It's the mentality of owning something unique that no one else has.Kind of like an original painting,They know they most likely have the only print of an episode in the world and the moment copies are made it loses it's value.
I think we should maybe stop rushing to conclusions before we know the facts in full. I've seen plenty of comments on here calling these collectors "selfish." Some could be yes, but not all of them will be. Others might have very valid reasons for not wanting to give anything back. We honestly don't know what's going on, and if we want there to be an actual chance that they might change their minds one day, we need to stop jumping to conclusions and accusing them of being something that they might very well not be. Because if I was one of these collectors, and I took one look at this comments section and saw that people were calling me "selfish" for hanging on to this stuff, I don't think I'd be terribly happy about it.
Yeah it doesn't look great at the minute. I don't think there will always be 97 missing episodes though. It's just a question of how much longer do we have to wait? :)
The 2013 returns were announced in the October (though maybe delayed due to stolen Web3). I guess we have exactly 4 months until Nov 23, if there no announcement by then we can all go back to sleep on the subject
I would not even be upset with the Space Pirates being returned. At least that would mean we could get a season 6 box set!
Yeah exactly (although I would be happy with it anyway haha 🤣)
Nor me. Some of the "bad" ones may better found so they are watchable and more like the enemy of the world and a gem that a recon or audio didn't do justice
@Joey15811 Yeah exactly. The Enemy of the World was once considered pretty boring, because the only episode we then had was episode 3, the absolute worst to base your judgement of the entire story on. The same could happen with others. :)
@@BillWhovian Yeah we arguably have the most boring episode of Space Pirates surviving. Id be happy with whatever we get back in the future.
@michaelnorris3639 Yeah episode 2 is the absolute worst. I wish we had episodes 4-6, as that's when the story really gets going. It's not a perfect story, but I'd love to see more of it. :)
We can only hope.
Those private collectors needs to learn of they dont hand them back soon the film.will one day be so bad the episode will be gone forever
The thing is, if there's one thing that you can almost guarantee about every single one of these private collectors, they'll look after what they've got. The only thing to watch out for is what happens to the prints once they die? Let's just hope that something is able to be arranged and sorted out, before the prints get thrown away by the families. :)
@@BillWhovianI knew someone who some Patrick troughton with yeti as the enemy, I watched it on some big weird tape real thing he said he was only person who had access to it, he died in 90s, wonder what he done with it???
@@John-uf8nt I hope you're not pulling my leg..
I only say that because some people have lied about having missing episodes before. Do you remember any more details? :)
@@BillWhovian it was called .... Snowman something I think??? He was fascinated cause yetis where like robots I think they had the metal sphere circular ball inside them, it was long time ago, my memory's faint
I think we'll get something, maybe not before december but hopefully something
I hope you're right but we'll have to wait and see :)
I can't help thinking if the BBC were to announce the fact that there are missing episodes when a new episode of Doctor Who is aired this might get some results, or at least inform people and prevent the possibility of relatives of deceased collectors binning our media heritage.
Yes possibly, although the BBC has tried that before, and yet you still see people having no idea what the value of these things are. :)
There hasn’t been any fresh new lost episodes found since that last ones for it’s 50th anniversary ten years ago. It’s been a while but I’m still hoping. 🤞🤞
For me at this point I would rather just know they are still around better knowing they are in safe hands than gone completely
Yeah that's understandable. They probably are looking after them (at least as much as they can anyway)
I hope so were so overdue for another recovery announcement it would make my 60th. Phillip Morris did say at a panel that the number of 97 will go down soon but the question is how soon is soon and how reliable is it true?.
Yes that's the thing with Morris' comments. He's promised the world to us fans for the past 10 years, and yet still nothing else has been officially announced as being returned to the BBC. :)
Re the Oz collection, as I understand the bulk of the material lost to landfill was on video cassettes and the model of video cassette recorders he had all postdated the last broadcast on Australian TV of missing Dr who. It seems the video reels from earlier video recorders may still exist. These would all be mid/late 60s to very early 70s. So possible he has a lot of missing who or also possibly absolutely nothing, it will take a very long time, as you say a decade or more, to play and transfer the potentially hundreds of tapes if that is even possble and for us to find out either way
Yes a lot of his collection was thrown away. So if he did record say the Space Pirates (the most likely missing story he would've recorded as that was repeated for the last time around the time he started using U-Matic tapes I think), the recording could've been among the ones thrown away. Then again, there were still thousands of his collection saved, so you never know. And yeah, we won't know until probably the 70th with how big the remaining collection is! 😆
@@BillWhovian if I understand the original podcast report correctly he also had a number of reel to reel video recorders that he aquired in about 1967/68 and possibly these tapes have not been thrown away, best to assume there's nothing though
Yes that's true. So it's not impossible that other missing episodes could be there. But yeah, it's best to not get our hopes up just in case. :)
@Da1Dez Mate, what I said about the 70th was a joke because of how big this Melbourne collection is. I think you need to stop rushing to conclusions that I'm the kind of person who likes to get his hopes up. Because I can assure you, I'm not.
@@Da1Dez luckily the type of recording tape used pre 1973 is more durable than those used after so if there is video reel tape from the late 60s it has a better chance of still being playable than the later cassettes, still not getting my hopes up though, I'm assuming there's nothing until I hear differently
I've got a feeling about 'The Celestial Toymaker' story being 'found'
That or an animation of it to tie in with Neil Patrick Harris playing him in the 60th specials perhaps? :)
@@BillWhovian Yeah! Exactly what I think!
Still hoping
If it's first Doctor i hope it's either
Daleks Master Plan or the Crusades
If it's second Doctor i hope its either Fury From The Deep or Wheel in Space
Pretty good choices. I'd take anything, but having more of Master Plan would be great (especially if it was the final episode) :)
@@BillWhovian all chapters yes Asides from 2, 5 and 10 as we already have those.
Read some of the transcript of Daleks master plan and it's excellent. Just a shame that it's one of the stories that are missing :/
I'd like wheel in space as it was one of the many Doctor Who that my uncle worked on as a sound operator
@mrrocknroll5284 Oh nice! Does he have any memories of it? :)
@@BillWhovian unfortunately he passed away in 2009 but I do have some of the programmes he's done.
Doctor Who, Dad's Army and Doomwatch were he was most credited on among others
Doctor who ones he did were
The Massacre (Bill Hartnell)
Patrick Troughton:
- Wheel In Space
- Mind Robber
- The Krotons
Jon Pertwee :
- Planet of The Spiders
Tom Baker
- Robot
- Seeds Of Doom
- Meglos
- Full Circle
- Keeper of Traken
- Logopolis
@mrrocknroll5284 Oh I'm sorry to hear that. Looks like he had a very impressive career though. :)
deepfakes AI and CGI will be the only way to replace these episodes and this may take another 10 years to do. also with AI you could fix all the hartnell line fluffs so that he speaks every line perfect. imagine that
To be honest, I think AI is pretty iffy. There are some real ethical issues to take into account when using it to recreate performances from mostly people who are long gone. And to be honest, it's still a very new technology, so we can't really say for sure that it will have advanced to the point where it can recreate a TV episode in full in 10 years time. I'd prefer it if they stuck to reconstructions and animations personally
I think if any missing Doctor Who episode had been found it would have been announced by now. It would be big news on the BBC and other tv news channels.
It is all wishful thinking.
Yeah I think you're right unfortunately
Please God let this be the case. I’m hopeful cos of Phillip Morris recent comments and the story in the Mirror, but it might be just talk and not a recovery
Whilst the Mirror have gotten some stuff right in the past, they're ultimately still a tabloid newspaper, so you can't always be 100% sure that they're telling the truth about stuff. I hope something comes back though, even if it takes a few more years. :)
I wonder why people don't like The Space Pirates. I like it (having heard both the show audio and the audiobook).
Good to hear that I'm not the only one haha 🤣
I imagine it'll be all sorts of reasons. Perhaps it being almost entirely missing doesn't help? Maybe it’s because it doesn't take itself too seriously, which not everyone is going to be a fan of? 🤔
@dddayesq5061 I don't know if it would be as popular as Enemy, but hopefully it would change a few attitudes to it. It's a shame that people are always making jokes of it, as I really don't think it's as bad as they say.
I wish they would keep animating missing episodes. I've yet to see The Daleks' Masterplan. Read the novels though.
If you haven't already, check out Josh Snares' reconstruction of it. It is somewhat harder to watch all of it on UA-cam due to copyright, but it really helps bring the original TV version to life. That or the Loose Canon recon of course. :)
If a private collector has them, send them in already. You're being not nice in not doing it. I'll go through someone's pile.
Paul Vanezis has said recently that for these collectors, it's all about trust. They're not just going to hand over something that they've had for decades over to a complete stranger. I understand it's frustrating but calling them names won't help, as that could further put them off ever giving them back (nobody ever likes being insulted). We don't even know for definite what kind of person each of them are. Only people who have ACTUALLY met them like Paul Vanezis would know that.
Why would a private collector who had episodes not arrange something with the BBC? In the past the BBC made it clear that they would only borrow the episodes to copy and that they collector could keep the original.
We can only guess as to their reasons why. Although we shouldn't be annoyed with the collector. They were the one who saved the episodes from destruction, and looked after them when the BBC didn't really care much for any old prints.
Even if the episodes are never returned, at least we now know they're out there and being properly looked after. :)
@@BillWhovian If this selfish collector won't let the BBC at least copy them (surely he should receive some financial remuneration too?!) then those eps are stilll as good as forever lost!
@Paul_1971 I understand how frustrating it is that they haven't been returned. But we shouldn't start jumping to conclusions as to what kind of person the collector is, or why they haven't returned the episodes. That will just potentially make the chances of us seeing the episodes even less likely. :)
Remember City of Death? How 7 buyers would be willing to buy the Mona Lisa in private where no one would know they had it? Some collectors are like this and enjoy having something no one else has.
Some of these collectors might not know they have missing material or that it’s missing in the first place.
What if they found *The Celestial Toymaker* ?
Well, like any missing episode being found, that would be great. It doesn't fully live up to it's potential as a story, but I would still like to see more of it. Let's hope they can find at least one more episode of it someday. :)
@@BillWhovian I was also thinking that maybe Russell Davies ideas for the 60th anniversary might have been influenced by something behind the scenes like this. Just a shot in the dark lol
@@stonebaxter Possibly, although we won't really know for sure until November. :)
i think all we will get is those colorisations for the 60th
Possibly
It's just amazing that these collectors won't (at least) let the episodes they have get scanned then returned. What would be the harm. They would still have their originals and all of us would get to enjoy these epsiodes. It would even be courteous to (at least) tell us WHAT episodes they DO have to satisfy our curiosity . These "collectors" are terribly selfish.
It's the mentality of owning something unique that no one else has.Kind of like an original painting,They know they most likely have the only print of an episode in the world and the moment copies are made it loses it's value.
I think we should maybe stop rushing to conclusions before we know the facts in full. I've seen plenty of comments on here calling these collectors "selfish." Some could be yes, but not all of them will be. Others might have very valid reasons for not wanting to give anything back. We honestly don't know what's going on, and if we want there to be an actual chance that they might change their minds one day, we need to stop jumping to conclusions and accusing them of being something that they might very well not be. Because if I was one of these collectors, and I took one look at this comments section and saw that people were calling me "selfish" for hanging on to this stuff, I don't think I'd be terribly happy about it.
I'm not optimistic that new episodes will be found this year.
I really hope I'm wrong.
Yeah it doesn't look great at the minute. I don't think there will always be 97 missing episodes though. It's just a question of how much longer do we have to wait? :)
Looks like no, I think we'd have heard something by now