Review: PID Upgrade ECM Synchronika & Profitec Pro 700 at SCA
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- More steam power! Review of PID upgrade and other new features on the ECM Synchronika and Profitec Pro 700 espresso machines from the 2018 Specialty Coffee Expo. Marc from Whole Latte Love gets the details from Michael Hauck of ECM/Profitec. With a new PID and safety valve these machines deliver steaming power on par with professional cafe machines. Also covered: New E61 brew group design, ECO mode and other refinements.
ECM Synchronika: www.wholelatte...
Profitec Pro 700: www.wholelatte...
I just got a new synchronika with all of these upgrades and just let me say.......wow, the steam pressure is simply amazing. 2 bars !! This machine is absolutely beautiful. The craftsmanship is amazing. Such attention to detail. I couldn't be more happy with my purchase. Thank you WLL. !!! Also Mark and Todd you guys are great, your videos, as well as these upgrades and the extra year warranty was what led me to the Synchronika over other machines and to purchase from WLL instead of Clive which is only 2 hours from me. Worth the extra couple day wait during shipping.
Hi Anthony, Thanks for the comment! The Synchronika was one of our favorites even before the PID upgrade. Now it's more better! Also love the internals of the machine. It's one of the easiest DB PID machines to open up and work on.
I just upgraded my Profitec Pro 700 this weekend with the PID upgrade here and wow what a difference. Steaming milk is MUCH better now. I had to really work at getting a good froth before but this has taken it to a whole new level. Like having a new machine. Kudos to the Profitec (or whoever) folks for making this upgrade available and for the videos from WLL for putting it together.
Hi Santiago, You are welcome for the videos and thank you for the comment sharing your impressions with the upgrade! We work directly with manufacturers on upgrades like this one. We asked Profitec/ECM for the steam pressure upgrade and they delivered. The upgrade is now standard equipment on all their dual boiler machines giving them best in class steaming performance.
Marc
I wish this part would be available for a Technika IV Profi. :(
Hi Patrick, Thanks for the question. No it will not be. The Technika IV P is not a PID machine so it would take quite a bit of hacking to make it work. Also a whole set of issues running an HX boiler as hot at this can go. It would result in high brew temps.
Thankfully I can still get some AMAZING foam if I just take the time to freeze a frothing pitcher before hand. Thanks for the reply.
The Pro 700 is a great machine but another major determining factor in deciding on a machine is parts availability. In New Zealand there is only one supplier and he refuses to sell parts to individuals -also Profitec do not allow international shipping of there products effectively tying up supply check availability before you buy otherwise you may be screwed...
Hey Nick, Thanks for the comment on the Pro 700 - it is a great machine. Sorry parts are an issue in NZ - that's strange! Not the case for our customers in US and Canada.
Marc
So We are appliance owners YEP🤷♀️! It is a double boiler tho so we learned ALLOT! We have the Eureka Mignon facile and love it!!! We use scales and all that jazz. So with The BDB it has pre infusion but after watching dozens on awesome WL❤️ vids I still wondering some stuff!
Why do the non appliance DB machines not have pre infusion?
Do we need that?🤔
I think we’re looking for a forever machine and don’t need plumbed water line. I want to taste better expresso shots and I want power on steam.
Is flow control necessary to mimic pre infusion or is that pre infusion thing only put on these appliances to make decent coffee??
I really like a knob for steam and prefer rotary pump and i am also really wanting a start up timer. I need a shot timer too and a big enough warmer for cups.
Im really liking a couple of the options but now it’s the hard work to narrow it to 3 and then chose!!!
Hi Lise, Tough decisions! Most non-appliance or prosumer level machines do have a type of pre-infusion. Machines with the classic E61 brew group have pre-infusion built in. It's a little different than on appliances which run the pump for a moment to wet the coffee then pause and restart the pump. E61 groups build pressure slowly so the group releases water onto the puck with very little pressure for a few seconds and accomplishes essentially the same thing as the appliances. Flow control is not required for pre-infusion. But flow control definitely allows for a lot more than pre-infusion. It's incredible for working with very fresh lighter roast specialty coffees. If you want to take your espresso to a level beyond the classic Italian styles fresher from roast high-altitude specialty coffees often feature fruit/berry notes. When fresh they tend to be bright/acidic. A long low flow start to an extraction of up to 15 seconds to first drip allows the fresh coffees to off-gas CO2 and bring the brightness way down so other flavors push through.
If you do not need a plumbed machine the Profitec Pro 600 sounds like a good option for you. It has knob operation, best in class steaming power, shot timer, good size warming surface. It does not have a start up timer but you can run from an appliance timer - and those are usually easier to use (especially app connected WiFi models) with more capabilities than what you'll find on the few machines with built in turn on timing.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Buck!! 🤗
The 600 is for sure in my top 3. So does it have the louder vibration pump or rotary?
I really like the nutty medium coffee and we tend to only run a couple types of beans. I usually stay away from fruity so I’m wondering if we need flow control or not.. I think it’s an add on the the 600 correct? Wouldn’t it be nice to do some coffee tastings .. haha!!!! Ok back to business we also want the option to fix our own stuff and I keep loving the video’s where you guys show the open cases (hubs is very capable of fixing our stuff), parts are avail to Canada?
Lastly for lattes what do people tend to like more the knob steamer or the lever like in ECM! Ideally I’d love to just try them both but I live in northern Ontario and we have zero options to feel these machines in hand before purchasing..
@@Wholelattelovepage Marccccc can you do a video comparing the 600 and 700 pleaaasseee🙌🏻😬🤗🤔💕✅
The 600 has a vibration pump.
If not diving deep into specialty type coffees then flow control may not be needed. Can always upgrade that later if desired. Very easy to install.
We do do some tasting from time to time like this one featuring 5 of our favorites to try in 2022: ua-cam.com/video/f46AAPRUVcM/v-deo.html
We love doing the support videos and showing internal components. At this time parts have limited availability in Canada but that should be changing.
Knob or lever is a personal choice. One nice thing is the knob operated valves on the the Profitec line are all quarter turn from full closed to full open and are sprung so you don't have to crank on them to close/open.
Marc
Any news on Profitec Pro 500? I just purchased my PID version and just wondering would any upgrades be coming my way.
Hi PP, Spoke with Profitec at the SCA show and there are no plans to upgrade the PID on the 500. Running the boiler hotter in the PP500 would present a bunch of challenges as it's the same boiler which heats brew water.
Whole Latte Love how bout that pid upgrade on the none pid pro 500..??
Hi Jesus, I spoke with Profitec at SCA show and they have no plans to offer a PID upgrade for non-PID 500's. One reason given was there's no place to mount it.
Whole Latte Love darn. i wouldnt even care bout the screen just tge hardware to make it more accurate withought tge screen.
Great video,
What about spareparts. Are they generally exchangeable. I mean can you use ECM-parts where the design is similar for the Profitec P700?
Regards Martin
Martin Emch Hi, thanks for the comment. Yes, many parts are interchangeable between ECM and Profitec machines. Marc
Are you sure that you can only do pre-infusion when it’s plumbed? I just watched a video from Clive that said that pre-infusion ALSO works when using the reservoir...
Hi Jon, Thanks for the question. When going from reservoir it's more of a pre-wetting. Eventually water flow will stop after a couple of ounces are released. When plumbed, you can continue applying line-pressure water to the coffee indefinetly. Those long pre-infusions (think 15 seconds or so) with line pressure behind them of about 2 bar do wonders to control/tame brightness in fresh form roast single origin coffees.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Ok, thanks for the response. So you can KINDA do some pre-infusion with a reservoir, but not as well as you can when you are plumbed...
Hello, just a short question:
Where is Made synchronika ? Germany or Italy ?
Also Profitec Pro 700 ? Where is made ?
Thanks in advance
Hi ST, Both the Synchronika and Pro 700 are made in Italy. Here's a video I shot at their production facility in Milan with CEO Michael Hauck: ua-cam.com/video/K0RI5rdz4Ww/v-deo.html
Marc
Great Video Marc, When will the PID and Valve be in stock? Any Ideas on price point?
Hi Joe, Thanks for the comment and question. We're in a 2-3 month time frame for PID/valve upgrade. No information on pricing at this point. Marc
Are existing PID's programmable? Is there a potentiaometer or something that can be manually turned to up temp range?
Joe Cuzzola No pots. I believe parameters are stored within the PID on ROM.
I'm from Europe and own also the ECM Synchronika. Can I use the same new PID from you for my machine and can I tell the PID to show the temperatures in Celcius degrees, not Fahrenheit? Would be pretty important to me :)
Hi Stefan, Our PIDs here in the US are switchable from C to F degrees so it's likely your PIDs can do the same. We currently do not ship to Europe so I would contact your dealer in Europe for details on PID upgrade.
Very Good video. What is the different the ECM Synchronika and Profitec Pro?
Hi TD, Internally they are near identical. Differences are in the chassis, valves and external casework. They are made by the same company. Might think of Profitec/ECM like you would Toyota/Lexus brands.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Except that they are really more like different branding rather than different quality. IE Toyota is a lesser model like than Lexus where Profitec/ECM are roughly equal in quality, with slight design differences. Correct?
Thank for the information about the steam pressure upgrade! As I understand it, the engineers changed a very small brass valve of what: 5$ production piece? I'm asking because I started to shop online and the previous model (1.2 bar) is still sold around 3000$. Fair enough. However, the 2018 upgrade is 900$ more according to my researches... just for this valve change. Is this a misunderstanding or I missed something?
Hi JP, Not sure where you are getting your pricing but the current Pro 700 with the upgrades in this video and some additional ones retails for about $2,800 US$. Here's a link to current pricing: www.wholelattelove.com/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
I cannot speak to Canadian prices, taxes and fluctuations in currency exchange rates between Canada and EU. Here in the US original price of the Pro 700 a few years ago and price of newer model today hasn't changed much.
Older models of the Pro 700 can be upgraded for ~$200 US. The upgrade includes the safety valve and a new PID controller. We have the upgrade kit available here: www.wholelattelove.com/profitec-pro-700-pid-upgrade-kit
We also have a video showing start to finish how to install the upgrade: ua-cam.com/video/530bd0birgw/v-deo.html
Where is the best synchronika ACM or Proftiec 700 or Rocket R58
Hi HS, My favorite is the ECM Synchronika. IMO It's the best built, easiest to work on dual boiler. Also capable of doing line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed in direct to water source. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions!
Marc
Whole Latte Love Yes I made the nicest service because ACM has our own distinguished agent as well as rocette as the proftec has no agent in my country, thank you for your cooperation and advice
Whole Latte Love }