Indifference and healing from narcissistic relationships
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2020
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.
Once you understand what real love actually is, you will first begin to give it to yourself, maybe even for the first time. Then slowly you realize that what you had with the narcissist wasn’t love at all. Not even close. Once you accept that, healing gets way easier and if you still feel hurt understand that it’s from being betrayed NOT by a love lost. Keep going forward everyone.❤️
Thank you for that. Well said. That helps me a lot.
Absolutely right I agree. I'm going through that journey now of self love and it gets easier by the day. So easy that I'm starting to find myself learning saying NO and not feel some kind of way about it. #it feels good.
P.S. your name sounds familiar... don't I know you? 🤔
I think I've hit a tier of indifference. I don't intentionally wish her I'll or want her to have a bad life. But the idea of going to the same city as her or her family is something I'm working on
@@shantelwilliams2991 I don’t think so lol but I wish you the best on your journey
@Jen Jenn you’re very welcome! Good luck❤️
Indifference to a toxic person means you have so much more passion to give to people and activities that are healthy.
I still pray for them only God can heal them
💯🙏🏽
Sure!
Thank you for that!
@@ambererickson5940 amen
"Indifference and independence are the two wings which enable the soul to fly."
~Hazrat Inayat Khan
I like this! 😊 thank you for sharing
Beautiful quote! Thank for sharing! 🥰
thank you!
Wowzers amazing nice quote
Why women in AMERICA need educations, jobs are competitive with men. To survive women in western countries need educations.
I left not to teach them a lesson, but because I had finally learned mine. I don't wish them good or bad - I couldn't care any less about the rest of their lives than I do. I'm finally truly free.
Dear dr Ramani
You help me survive in a very dark period in my life
I owe you a lot actually
Thanks for being here for us
I concur wholeheartedly @ Aya Saudi....holding your heart presently.
Me too ♡♡♡ She helped me heal YEARS of pain
She's a soul saver.
Agreed
Yes!
"I'm not indifferent to their future victims, but it's not my job to rescue them". Thank you x
"And honestly if they want information they can watch these damn videos" LOL 😆 I LOVE IT
Emma Jugganaikloo
It took me 50 years to discover this information. 😕😩 about two years ago....EDIT: (actually, four years ago, after the gaslighting got physical, I filed a restraining order against one of my flying monkey sisters. So, around 46 years old. The narcissist is a time sucker. Easy to lose track of time. their games are on loop.) after that...I finally had enough of it and started googling their behaviors and patterns.
That was actually the beginning of my education regarding narcissist family dynamic. OMG ... this extraction has been a long and painful process.
April Love better late than never
This really got stuck with me, i used to feel sorry for his supplies but then i was like, nobody ever felt sorry for me, life is a game and we all gotta level up alone
Exactly. I'm done with rescuing.
Us caring is what gives them power over us. I don't wish anything upon my narcissist. Because even my bad wishes are too good for my narcissist. It's too important now that I care about myself, I have no energy left to care about my narcissist.
I now see it like in a rear mirror. It's getting smaller and smaller, and one day I won't see it anymore.
Will I get there...too . Two wks out from two year horrible ness
I like your analogy of the rearview mirror… Very introspective!
It took minimum 2 full years after going no contact to start getting to indifference. In the beginning, I kept a countdown, telling myself if I could just make it to the 2 year mark I would be ok. By the third year I was fully there. It's been over 5 yrs now. Indifference is empowering. 😊
Good for you🙌 i just came from no contact and it is a struggle, my empathic nature feels sorry for him and at times i feel guilty for cutting him off, since a recent hoovering...i just blocked his number for good and turn off all social media and now consodering chaning my number.
I don’t care about the narc at all. I am angry at what he did to my young adult children how it effected them and my relationship with my children.
Thanks for sharing. This gives me hope. I'm 2 years no contact and still not quite there yet. I find when I have other stresses in my life, the cPTSD symptoms seem to return and I ruminate on the Narcissist more. It's manageable now, and my life has improved massively since I first got discarded, but I'd like not to dwell on the relationship at all.
Yes it does take long while. It was comments from Dr Ramani's channel and the HG Tudor one that have set me free. I learned that it was not about what he actively did, more what he didn't do that created so much bafflement
Indifference was easier to attain once I realized that NONE of the narcissist’s crap is mine - regardless of how much they (try) to project it onto me.
💯
Man, do I ever hear that. The mirroring and projection had me so twisted until I realized how I had been played.
Thats exactly what I said to him yesterday when he called to demand I don't press charges. I DIDNT DO THIS. YOU DID.
Thank you for this beautiful comment ❤️ My life energy is my own
yes. their crap is their business not ours.
When you reach true indifference towards those who abused you, you have won
That is true although I feel my ex has achieved indifference towards me already and has 'won'. He hasn't behaved like a classic narc and tried to hoover me back and has completely blanked me for months even before he moved out (silent treatment). Maybe my pride is hurt too because he hasn't wanted me back. :-( He does have new supply though so let's see what happens if that doesn't work out.
@@jackie4290 He hasn't behaved like that *yet*. Stay strong.
I used to wish such bad things to happened to my narc sister, but now I just do not care. I know that because of her narcissism even if something terrible happened to her she still would not learn from it. No amount of life lessons will teach her to be a better person or learn from her mistakes, or teach her to treat others better. Nothing will make her apologize to me, and I no longer need an apology. I just don't care anymore. It's not worth my energy. The best I can do is live a good life for me.
@@jackie4290, count your blessings that he has discarded you & not tried to Hoover you back! Of all the ways of disengaging from a narcissist, it is BEST when they discard you! They have done half the work for you! And less chance of revenge from narcissistic injury. Now, you have to do the other half of the work by disengaging emotionally/becoming indifferent to them!
@@jackie4290 I don't think you should be watching to see what that person is doing at all
I see “indifference” in relation to narcissism as the concept of “detachment” in recovery from codependency: it is the same as the Al-Anon concept of “letting go with love.”
👍agree💯😊🧘♀️💆🏻♀️💫
Same thing I thought - detachment and indifference/separation from outcomes.
What is Al-Anon?
AA
Alcoholics anonymous
Detachment is a better word.. Indifference is more of a word describing narcissists
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I like the word, "detachment" from the narcissists in our lives. Practicing detachment for me, is how I free myself from the narcissist. It's like letting go of a big boulder. Putting the boulder down, leaving it behind, not carrying its crushing weight anymore, which frees me and all of victims of narc abuse, to move forward on my/our own life path(s).
Love that, we actually do detach from that toxic chaos. Perfectly said.
I'm looking forward to the indifference!
It's called "drop the rock" you have been carrying, nuturing, loving. I dropped mine at the foot of the Cross.
That makes sense to me. It's 1 year out of a 4 year relationship. I still dream about him, but am getting to a place of indifference. I have had a hard time accepting that invalidation and passive aggression is abuse. But starting to see how destructive that is.
Perfect description 😊
Indifference to narcs frees up all those brain cells/time ruminating about them for something rewarding.
Exactly! Moving toward indifference means a total energetic rebalancing.
80islandia funny because since the beginning of October I decided it’s time to let go and ever since I’ve been having night sweats, I guess my body is expelling everything finally and rebalancing like you just said
@Ana Jaramillo Wow, that sounds very powerful. All the best to you as you move through a well-deserved recalibration. 🌹✨
80islandia thank you for your words!! I just woke up one morning and decided that enough was enough and I’m finally not ruminating anymore. Sleeping is rough because of the night sweats but I know once my body and spirit are done, I’ll be even happier and healthier. 🧡
@Ana Jaramillo The finality you describe sounds very liberating and I’m sure your body will thank you in the end after the rollercoaster of night sweats. Good luck!
Healing is tough, i still get nightmares sometimes. The best way is to cut all communication, don’t stalk them, don’t check on them, cold turkey
Are they family or an ex? Harder to cut a family member off
woboznz i was referring to an ex. If it’s a family member and you can’t cut them off, you just have to give them supply unfortunately just for the time being
@@Ellejas yeah mine is my Mum. I limit my interactions and even moved overseas. Its still tough to keep her at bay! I'm glad you cut off your ex. Stay strong x
woboznz thank you, stay strong too ❤️
No contact no problems!
I’ve been waiting for this video. So happy that my indifference doesn’t mean I’m an awful person. I’m just caring for myself.
It isn't indifference to them as a fellow human but no longer needing their acceptance, validation, love etc.
You can still love a person with no hope of love back as long as you have no expectations on them and move on without them.
What we tend to do with them is agonise over them and be tortured by the mind games they play. Indifference is not caring whether we win in their game anymore or care what they think of us.
If you can still love them as a human being whilst simultaneously not worrying what they think of you then you have successfully let go of them.
"The opposite of love is not hate, they are two sides of the same coin."
"Hate is love frustrated."
To quote a song:
"Haters are obsessed fans"
Absolutely, we come to a place where we just don't care, we don't wish them bad we just move forward and are at peace! So grateful to be out of a Narcissistic marriage of 20 years!!! Dr Ramani Thank you soooo much in being a part of my Healing! Forever grateful to you ❤
Which brings you to the opposite of love is not hate its indeferance.
Lilly you nailed it!
@@ennvee3354 thank you ur kind., support having others is precious.. im greatful., transcending is awsome no other can come along the curtain has been pulled.. rest in that peace u earned it.
@Braveheart that's not indifference. You still have a lot of healing to do. Best wishes,
Honey you do not even look 20 yet alone have a 20 yrs marriage!! Good for you!!!!
"and honestly if they want some information they can watch these damn videos" 🤣♥️
Ohh So Social,Your lovely smile 😊 can make the news!!
Yes, I loved this one too!
I have only just started watching Dr Ramani videos 📺🙏🙏🙏 Dr you have brought so much clarity in my life. I am no longer confused 🤔🙏☑️the OPERATIVE word TO DESCRIBE you is Amazing ☑️
i had to rewind just to make sure i heard that correctly lmao
Yes! lol let's not mince words! Loved it.
My narcissistic family have ruined my entire life.
I suddenly feel indifferent to their greed, resentment and their childish tactics to manipulate me. I'm angry. Yet I finally feel free.
They were the worst part of my life. I'm done. Decades of narcissistic abuse is absolutely ENOUGH.
Great video, there is nothing like a perfect marriage or relationship, I learnt that in everything there is always a solution, 5 years ago I and my wife divorced because we were having some difficulties in our marriage but we are back together ,it was a really bad phase but we got through it
there is a lot of sense in what you just said and I hope mine works the same way too, we are currently separated but I cant live without her, I love her so much. wish I can get her back I can do anything to have her back, we have tried therapy amongst other things
its always difficult to let someone you love go, but in my case I had the help of a spiritual adviser who saved my marriage from collapsing her name is SHELLY RENEE WHITE.
this is helpful, I will look her up. I hope this works for me too, I really miss her.
Rhett Butler summed it up perfectly. "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!"
Lol. I was wondering if someone might remember that classic phrase! You're the first person I've seen so far who has mentioned it. 👍😀
The opposite of Love isn’t Hate. It is indifference!! Thank you!
deep! I might use that. Thanks
I'm 58 and my Dad said that.
Opposite of LOVE.. is FEAR. Hatred and Indifference are properties of fear. Like Joy and Excitement are properties of LOVE.
Love has no opposite. Because love is unconditional. So it can't have any opposite.
The opposite of indifference is focus I'd say.
@@fuseflash5506 Fear is just one core emotion. A primitive one but not opposite of love. I don't know because in some ways it's kind of opposite to love because fear = source of hostility.
There’s no way to describe in words the gratitude I feel for this woman who I’ve never met
I remember seeing my narc abuser a year after I last saw him, a year and a half after I broke it off and went NC. He came to the bar where I work at, with some girl. It was really comical honestly, I'm not sure if he knew I worked there or he just happened to choose this one particular bar, but it was really funny either way. I experienced everything Dr. Ramani described in this video: I recognized his silhouette from afar, I froze, and my knees and hands started shaking. Luckily as I was behind the bar, I don't think anyone noticed. I could feel that my face didn't change much though, except for the jaw that tensed up a lot. I was determined not to let him know that seeing him again affected me in any way. We chatted for a little bit, he was mostly talking to the girl, and I tried to do whatever I would do if he was just a normal customer. They stayed until close, and were the last people to leave. He was the last person to leave, while his girl was waiting outside. I remember him looking at me with a pitiful face (the kicked puppy look, I'm sure you know what it's like), and then asking if I was happy. Literally trying to fish a reaction out of me lol. I said yeah, are you? He didn't reply and asked again if I was happy. It was so surreal. Because I was free from his grasp, I could see his manipulation so clearly, I kinda laughed, shrugged and said yeah, the only way out is through, and motioned him to leave with my hand. He used to do that gesture so often with me. It was extremely satisfying.
I was scared for a while that he would come back, or follow me home, or whatever, but I never saw him again since that time. We have some mutual friends in common, and they told me he's asked about how I was doing once, but nothing happened. I think he must have realized he doesn't have any power over me anymore, and without that power that I so foolishly gave away once, he can't even approach me because he's too scared.
Wretched creatures, aren't they. Living with a black hole for a heart.
This was so satisfying to read!
Bravo 👏💕
I see ramani I click
Maybe “detachment” - “teach us to care and not to care” - TS Eliot
Well put Jaime - "detachment" functioning in the form of "grey rock"
Detachment is a great word. Indifference works too. Once I embraced these ideas I got a sense of peace because I recognized I don't have control over their behaviors.
'detachment' is a good term = Right On!
I was going to say 'acceptance' that they are who they are, and not expecting anything other than what they are. But detachment sounds much more on the nose.
Benevolent detachment
Indifference is so powerful. It helped me push past so many moments of shame, worry, fear, guilt, etc.
"Indifference is the gold standard." - Dr. Ramani Me: Amen!
"indifference" is a powerful feeling, its the end of one cycle and the beginning of a happier one. But it takes lot of suffering and learning about yourself to come there..
Wish I could have skiped that suffering part.
Ivana Miljak,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🥀,hope you are not with a narc 😈!!
I completely agree when it comes to healing from narcissistic abuse..indifference has been a my best revelation. Yes it’s a kind of death and for me and its a good thing. When you realize the NARC will never change and that are they incapable of showing up as a reasonably healthy human in typical life scenarios, sometimes it’s best to let go of the possibility of them being anyone other than who they are..so yes a symbolic death of what we thought was possible is a great panacea... be indifferent let it go
I agree with you 100%! I LOVE the way indifference feels in this scenario! I'm not sure why so many people are trying to offer up different words for it, but maybe each person's word is the best to describe their individual experience of healing. Indifference, to me, feels very empowering, and it feels like a REAL and final severing of the relationship. It feels like it is truly being left behind. After all, the narcissist is not a stranger, and they're not a person you should be close to, either.
Ms. Tiffany - Preach!
I too, am so grateful Dr. Ramani. It’s so difficult to “convince” others of what we’re dealing with - this in and of itself can be so invalidating and isolating. Indifference is what helped me begin to stop falling into manipulative traps. I wish I knew of your videos 12 years ago when I was captured by a closet” narcissist’s love bombs. I’m ready and working on re-engaging with the world and take my life back.
TY...I was so close to being assigned a jail cell. Thank goodness for you and others who make these videos, my therapist, the research, reiki, and hope for a future...
YES, anger is real!!!!!!
I’m already there. Indifferent is the right word. I’m healed. He left today after 34 years.
Enjoy every peaceful minute of freedom
My narc/alcoholic husband of 34 years will be gone in 2 weeks. I hope to get to a place of “indifference”. Still in the ruminating anger stage.
I am in the same situation. Married 34 years too.
Oh, what a blessing!
You are free! Congratulations ladies :)
Indifference is a good word. Detachment, too. Also, a friend of mine said to me about my narcissistic, "That guy is becoming more and more irrelevant." I liked that. I don't need to expend any emotional energy hating him. He's just irrelevant to me now.
Ooh! I like “irrelevant!” Thank you!!! 👍👍👍👍👍
Interesting word, especially since a lot of narcissistic behaviour stems from fear of being/becoming irrelevant. Thank you.
I like that word "irrelevant" too! Perfect! I think detachment is good but then on to the next step of irrelevant!!! Thanks for that @Lisa R.
Really well said
When I wasn't focused on my narcissist I was fit, capable of working without exhaustion, and i didn't feel like it was wrong to follow my dream and have deal breakers in relationships. Now that I have put distance between me and them and my narc parents has died, I feel free, and getting my body back.
The key word is focus. Without your focus they actually die. I have seen it happen
You have changed my life forever! Thank you from the bottom of my heart. It's like you are breathing life back into me. Indifference is a perfect word!
This concept is referred to as "detachment" in Melody Beattie's "Codependent No More". It is an active decision to focus on the self rather than focusing on (and trying to control) others' behavior, emotions, beliefs, etc.
Yep, it's good to know and face one's shortcomings.
I have it ,😎
I have that book in audio format. I will listen to it again. It's been a month since my millionth break up from the NARC. I am full of pity and guilt. Sadly, I am still in the relationship and it will take a long time to detach.
I agree with detachment. Indifference works and applies but detachment to me is more of an action verb. When I start ruminating I think to myself my mind is a menu do I want to spend any more precious moments of my life thinking about this for absolutely nothing. I have better things to think of. What can I do to move forward in my life today and then I think about that and something good always comes up for me to take a step forward in. It’s worked wonders. Also I have handed over all hope. Not a shred exists and there is nothing at all of the things that I lived to go back to. Acknowledging that takes u far in the detachment process.
Love that book❤
"Disentanglement" could be a more positive alternative to "indifference." My deepest thanks, Dr. Ramani, for your compassionate and often helpfully humorous guidance as I navigate the murky waters of over 4 decades of narcissistic abuse.
Is that Gottman reference? Either way I disagree, at least for me I had to detach my feelings for caring what becomes of him. That was always the hook, the fact I cared was used against me. Disentanglement makes it sound like you are still trying to fix the relationship by 'setting it straight'. You must let go and heal.
@@evonne315 I totally agree! Indifference is a much better word. To me, 'disentanglement' sounds as tho' it's still going on - you're still in the process of disentangling (to me). But indifference means it's complete. It's done. I'm over them. I love that word and it's a goal for me... and it's coming soon!
@@jfdc8432 yup, you gotta put it the way that works for you. Best of luck with your goal - rooting for you!
I agree with her use of the word indifference. Personally I think it is an important distinction. Indifference means that you are not supplying the narcissist with the energy load, or supply, they crave when they come in contact with you. If you think of it as saving your energy for you and giving them as little energy as possible, then you are starving them of supply. When I started thinking of it this way (starving them of supply) it became a lot easier to become indifferent.
YES - that's it! Well said. You're not supplying them and they're not activating you, either. For real.
This is exactly what I needed to hear today. I woke up very early realizing I have been the scapegoat and victim of many narcissistic family members. I was feeling like I am so hated by all of them because I alone dared to confront them concerning their gaslighting and blaming me when I was innocent and loving. I have been feeling indifferent towards them and was feeling like I must be soulless but you let me know that I'm not. I just don't care about them anymore. They have all hurt me when I didn't deserve it so why should I care. I finally have compassion for myself. Thank you Dr. Romini.
I so anderstand this is a long process to get over. Especially because it takes a long time to recognize that they are severely dysfunctional and evil. So recognizing this takes time and grace to ur character that u are not the cause. Thank God for helping u thur this process. Pray and ask for closure and no more love for that person. GOD does answer that prayer. Most people that live that deeply are empaths and are strong and have a precious gift. Dont let yourself forget that. Go forward, as I one day at a time. Remember u are not the evil one.
Bravo xxoo
Indifference is perfect. My goal is is to never have this person enter my mind. I’ve done it twice before. (Father, sister) The one I’m dealing with now… the biggest challenge. But I’m getting there.😊 every day I’m a bit happier!
Indifference truly is the gold standard after experiencing narcissistic abuse! It means true peace! To have no emotional response- negative or positive- means peace & healing for me.
"Indifference" is the best word for this. The only other alternative is "IDGAF" 😂
😁😁😁😁😁😂😂😂😂😂😂
When my abusive narcissistic father dies, I’m not going to his funeral. I made sure he knows that. I’m cutting him and all of his influence out of my life and putting it behind me. It’s a matter of survival.
Narcissists generally don't understand punishment well as they generally mimic or alter factors to cause emotional responses before that of generally just supporting natural thoughts and feelings.
What you are saying is a choice, and that it is justified, and not difficult to make or uphold because you are indifferent 🙏😉
At this stage in your life, you don't have to.. but when the time comes you might change your mind.. and go because you have reached indifference.
@@l.ameenaa4669 it's tough with these limited numbers in attendance.
I'd opt (indifferently) to give my place up if I could confer that another was more entittled to attend.
It's only a ceremony remember 🙏
@Pam Lee 🙏💙
Pam Lee
What worked for you, won’t work for me. I don’t believe in the judeo-christian deity. I come from a family of religious fanatics. My puritanical father made my entire childhood and young adult life a living hell, constantly condemning me. He would find fault and the devil in every little thing I did.
As much as my father was a puritanical christian, he was also the world’s biggest hypocrite. He would forbid his children, particularly me as his first-born son, from doing everything imaginable that could somehow be magically connected to satan. BUT, my father was ALWAYS doing the things he forbid us to do. He got to have his fun while he left his children’s lives as joyless. As little children, we were confused by his mixed messages and innocently asked him why was he doing the things he forbid us from doing. We didn’t realize we were pointing out his hypocrisy. It didn’t matter we were little kids. He would blow a gasket and absolutely terrorize us.
My hypocritical father kept saying how shameful it was that the father of a family we knew, cheated on his wife. Well, my father got so worked up and projected onto that father because he had an affair himself. My flakey mother just went into denial, like she always does with everything in life.
My father put me through so much abuse since my earliest memory. As his subservient christian wife, my mother would enable him and back up his play, even when he was gaslighting me like crazy. She would confirm his gaslighting lies, swearing up and down they were true, despite my father was making it all up on the spot.
I’m not on speaking terms with my narc father and my narc siblings. My relationship with my mother is complex. I’ve had to limit my conversations with her because I couldn’t take her dismissiveness. She acts like all the horrible things that happened to me never happened. She insists I had a happy childhood. When it came to my severe depression, one time she blamed it on canned food, if you can believe it. As far as she’s concerned, she and my father were perfect parents and they gave me and my siblings an idyllic childhood. The exact opposite is what really happened.
So no, using religion as a conduit between my father and I is not going to work. I made it clear to my family that I’m an atheist, which they never accepted. My father and mother would always try to trick me to come back to their religion, usually gaslighting me at times when I was most vulnerable.
I CANNOT stand when people tell me I should give religion another try. I don’t want to and I don’t have to. I owe NOTHING to archaic beliefs that made my family act crazy. All denominations are false. The bible isn’t a history textbook. It’s no more credible than Greek mythology. For me to have inner peace, I had to put my family’s beliefs behind me and hold myself to my own convictions and my own beliefs. I’m an individual person who can think for himself. I’m not a Borg drone.
I love the way you talk about this. One revelation I’ve had recently is that not having an indifference toward my perpetrator of narcissistic abuse resulted in an intense apathy that stood between me going from surviving to thriving. I almost lost my passion and zeal for the things that gave me joy and resulted in personal success.
Bravo!
I made it through a grandiose narcissist. . I knew I was ok when he found me 3 years later and knocked on my door. I told him I was busy enjoying a dish of my favorite ice cream, sorry, smiling and I meant it. No goosebumps, no heart flutter. I had reached indifference, It's very much like AA. You come to a point where you're able to call it what it is. Not what you fantasize. But it isn't easy. All day videos, crying spells, going back to him, leaving him. And the crazy thing is..he gave me nothing. He just fired up my fantasy of us with fake futures and words. Nothing really came through.
AA is filled with narcs. If you find your partners there, it will be one after the other. Even more if you are dating men. Awareness is key.
This is my first comment on this channel. I just want to express my endless gratitude to this woman. She is helping me through the process of getting over a 7 years toxic relationship with one of these monsters. She is the one who gave me the strength to go no contact. He is still after me, I just talked to one of his flying monkeys (he hurt her a lot too, but somehow he found a way to still control her, as they do). So I blocked her too, I blocked every way he could find back to me. The only problem is that I think he is really angry now, and since he knows where I live, I am afraid he would try to take revenge on me one way or another. I'm seriously thinking of moving. But I would have never been relieved from this burden without this channel, and even the testimonies on the comments, I feel less alone. Thank you.
Monster is actually the right word. I will use it from now on too.
Listen to your instinct always & take precautions You are correct, this cut of supply most likely will anger him, if you have alarm bells going off then definitely. Congrats for being strong & be safe
You are definitely not alone. Im with you on everything you said. We got this!
I think you should just move. If you don't feel safe, the police can't really help. You will feel much safer and feel safer if you're not looking over your shoulder.
If you are in the US get an Order of Protection. It is a free service
I’m glad I don’t have to love and respect my abusers. Indifference feels like a step in the right direction.
Absolutely!
Agreed! There's a boundary for those beautiful gems ❤
But i cant and i think never will able too . I am caught up in crossroads . Its someone in my relations obligatory one ,but yet tough for me
I always thought I had to love and forgive my father.
@@jessicalee163 you do have to live and respect them, especially your father.
But forgiveness means you can do it from a distance and not necessarily even have any contact with them. It means to not wish any harm on then (what this video calls indifference).
I love when Dr. Ramani says “damn.” 😂. That’s right doc! we’re with you. This video is super helpful! My ex husband was borderline, and he did hurtful things but he never seemed to want to hurt me. I still care about him. But my ex boyfriend I think has npd and he seems like he was doing his best to break my soul in half. I want nothing more than to stop being afraid of him and dreading running into him. Indifference is my goal and I believe it will free me.
I think indifference is the perfect word. I am getting there after leaving a 36 year marriage 9 months ago. This video explains my process 100%. I managed to leave somewhat intact. Thank you for helping me understand my husband to me. I always blamed his addiction which gave me the hope I clung too. I now know the truth of who my husband really is.
I went no contact with my narcissistic mother almost a year ago. I have found I have slowly become healthier and happier over the past twelve months. I’m not sure I’m indifferent to her yet. I’m still angry and in a weird way I think the anger serves me. It makes me follow through with counselling and stay no contact. I’m certain that I will get to a place of indifference and I already can recall the abuse without getting swept up in anger and pain. It’s definitely a journey.
I’m sorry u went through that. I can’t imagine having a narcissistic mom. I have cousins that did too & most of them are also narcissistic now. But it definitely affects their life in many different ways. Especially if they are tied to them financially
You're on your way, keep going Joseph.
I am also no contact with my narc mother/sister duo. That's all the family that I had, but it's better to be at peace than to be constantly bullied and emotionally abused/gaslit. It's been about a year and a half for me. Am working through therapy to get strong and move forward for a healthy phase 2 of life. Love and light to all of you.
I also have a Narcissistic Mother and Father. I can relate to what you are experiencing. I am assuming it is normal to feel angry. I guess it might be part of the healing process. Try to leave the past to the past. It happened. It's over now. You are safe. I guess you never forget the things that happened to you. These things made you who you are today. At least for me it made me a kinder more compassionate person to others. I am 62 and have found it's never too late to follow your dreams. You will reach a point where you are happy with yourself and finally at peace.
Ur amazing be genital with ur self it will happen sooner than u think..
I had someone tell me that indifference was a dangerous place to be and I should be open to trying to be actively kind, but that seems like putting myself back into a situation where I pity and try to help him emotionally - My indifference feels like a healthy move! I’ve actually been able to be my normal joyous self ever since I decided to be indifferent
If we end up being kind all the time to the narc while we are being abused, then obviously we don't love our selves. Indifference (emotional detachment) is far more a healthier move to find time to being kind to ourselves and those who truly need our helping hand.
Be kind to yourself! You deserve it.
When we've had enough indifference is all we can feel. I'm over him and in my mind it's like he didn't exist. That helps me.
@@KushQueen9
Excellent solution!
Very well said!
What helped me to start to care less and hence start getting closer to indifference was to face the fact that the narcissist isn’t responding to my feelings, that they simply don’t exist in that other person’s world. And at some point I wondered: if I’m air to them emotionally, why should they exist in my world? We don’t actually loose anything. What stays if we leave is a strange emptiness and also relief and some feeling of strength. It’s so healing :)
Indifference is a perfect word for it. And yes, it does free you and enable you to focus on other things, because so much mental energy was being expanded on this person's opinions, possible reactions, feelings, plans etc. Someone who was used to prioritising them every single day can feel so liberated.
Ambivalence. It's mix of indifference and the echo of the pain experienced. Even when it's all done, all the narc leaves in your life is confusion.
I like how you link ambivalence with the feelings we still hold in the body and as a way of honouring the time it takes to release those feelings as we move toward indifference.
Yes it is true. Strong feeling of confussion
Yes so true
Yes we are never only feeling one thing...but achieving indifference in general helps create space for confusion to clear, and other feelings to clarify.
Since a narcissist has no qualms about stealing, damaging or destroying our souls, indifference makes perfect sense in this scenario!
Emotional detachment. That's how I have learned to deal with my family. Indifference is the same thing basically. Great talk, Dr. Ramani!! Spot on.
Indifference is the gold standard. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. After 34 years of being narcisistic supply, fourteen months of no contact, full victory in court, I am healing and entering the stage exactly as taught in your video. ❤❤❤
Dr.Ramani is the healer who gives us the 'invulnerability' potion
Yes, yes YES!!!, causing narcissists everywhere from seeking to engage primary source supply 🙏
The Taylor Swift song “I forgot that you existed” is PERFECT for this!
I’ll look it up. Thank you. I need all the help I can get right now. 🙃🙂
When coming to terms with a narcissist tour, it’s so easy to be indifferent, emotionally flat and afraid to trust. This finding indifference to the narcissist might just free you up to love the world. So like this, it sounds like the road forward. I feel like Dr. Ramani just showed us a door. Thanks💕
You explained Stoicism, actually. Stoics are indifferent and view reality as “it is what it is”. I feel this view really drops the emotional charge. However, easier said than done.
No.
Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that things will get better. I just moved across the country from my narc mom, and I’m so much better already. I’m not tired all the time, no more drama, no more walking on eggshells, no more fear. I had to text her for a document for a job, and she tried to hoover me back in. She won’t even say where I moved to (I didn’t tell her, but she ‘somehow’ knows). She was trying to talk to me like nothing had happened. Lol! I’ll never again fall for anything she says.
I already feel mostly healed, just by leaving. It really is indifference.
I'm so happy for you! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Wait a few years till she follows you.
I’m grateful you posted this about moving away. I’m considering making the same proactive decision for myself. It’s comforting to hear it was a positive and productive move for your personal journey.
I needed to read this. Thank you. And best wishes and enjoy your LIFE!
I just would like to reassure you that you are making a HUGE difference in my life and many others I'm sure. It feels great to get educated and realize I'm not crazy nor am I alone. Thank You Jesus its finally over.
For the last 15 years, whenever I want to set boundary from my biological family, I was told "blood is thicker than water," "the parents are getting old & will die soon," "your siblings' fates are your responsibilities," etc. I am in 200% agreement with Dr. Ramai. I am super big on indifference, shrugging, and wishing well my biological family on their individual lives.
I did years of healing work after my last relationship with a narcissist. I just owned the relationship as my inner child was broken from having a narcissist mother. I worked with my inner child several hours a day for years. Thank goodness as now I am free from the abuse that brought me into this relationship in the first place
Hey everyone I left my ex narc finally in January this year after five years, I still have contact with him as we have a toddler together, instead of grey rock approach I've chosen to be upbeat & positive when speaking to him whilst our little one has video chats or when i drop off & pick up, it was very difficult at first but it's got easier that way our little one doesnt feel stressed or upset by a change in me, it's funny as you can see it in my ex's face that he's confused as to why I'm so happy, just remember to keep it short & sweet & cut them off if he/she tries to engage in conversation about anything other than your child or children, be up beat pleasant by doing so it let's them no that your happy to co-parent with them on a consistent level for the sake of your child or children(which they dont) yet you dont have much time to talk or are in the slightest bit interest in them, I never thought it was possible to switch off & feel the way I do, if there is anyone out there that has lost there way I promise you it will get easier, just keep doing what your doing as your doing great xx
Good for you! What you're doing takes alot of courage. Keep up the good work!
You are doing the right thing. In this case, the emotional health of your kid is first. Are you the same with him when you are alone?
@@amber40494 Thank you so much, your comment means a lot take care x
@@MrKANAPAY Thank you your comment means a lot, since posting this my situation has changed, i refuse to even try & co parent with my ex, hopefully a third party (his family) will be picking up my child, but no news as a of yet if that will definitely be happening, if it doesn't then i will have to apply to the court for a contact centre, its not ideal for my child but I'ive had enough, i just feel so bad for my child as he has PR so i don't have a choice.he has rights to see my little no matter how much he will damage my child i can't do a single thing to protest my child, not in the uk anyway its heartbreaking xx
@@clairekinney4133 oh I'm so sorry, I feel for you and your little one. You're doing the best you can so try not to worry. You don't want to lose your health. If it's out of your hands just pray for change to come soon. May you be well and at peace.
I remember that gut feeling when I walked into the church of my son's wedding and seen my ex husband.8 years had past.I was able to be in the same room as him( never thought I'd be able to do that)I'm truly grateful I found the courage to leave, make my own decisions,heal,find myself,created healthy boundries.i no longer fantasize about bad things happening to him,karma,revenge etc.im in a happy place,dont care about his life.As dr.ramani put it hearing about him is like hearing about a stranger.I do believe this process would be harder when it's a parent though.
I thought that the process would be harder when it's a parent too, until my brother, a fragile borderline personality, moved in with her during the covid lockdown. She did every thing she could think of to destroy him, body, mind, soul and spirit. I am now at peace with the knowledge that the person who bought me into the world, is a demonic monster who will probably never change. Remember the Serenity Prayer...God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The Courage to change the things I can, and The Wisdom to know the difference. In my opinion, Indifference is a positive result of accepting the truth about the narcissist and going No Contact long enough to completely emotionally detach from the them.
I would call it “peace”. Thanks for your outstanding content on this too-often misunderstood topic!
I'm so glad you talked about this point. I've been called out many times as cold or stone hearted due to my indefference. But it was my way of surviving the narcissitic and emotional abuse. It was a coping mechanism while experincing the hurt and abuse. And for so long I felt of guilty of being labeled as indeffrent. For the bad reputation the word has. I also like you mentioning that we can work to be vulenerable and open up for other healthier relationship and let the indeffrence to the narcs only.
Indifference I would say is the perfect word to describe what you're talking about. I used to feel so hurt and angry and betrayed by my family and their opinions about my life and my marriage. Now I just think it's funny, and shrug my shoulders cause they aren't my problem anymore.
I have a little bit a pity for them, just cause they're so deluded that it's sad and pathetic, and sometimes if I really think about them, I get angry. But all of that quickly subsides ad I think about how happy and at peace I am without them around, and that comfort is greater than any other feeling.
Even when friends of mine who have second hand interactions with my family tell me something about them, I just say "oh well".
Trust me, this is the point you want to be at. Indifference did very healing.
"I think about how happy and at peace I am without them around, and that comfort is greater than any other feeling...Trust me, this is the point you want to be at.--Ian McShea
I wrote it down to show you the lump of gold you're holding in your hands.--Tonya Sullivan
Wow, I started to breathe when I reached the level of not caring. I just don't care about them at all. You described so accurately all the steps that I went through before reaching this stage
Several Eastern religions might call it non-attachment. In contrast, detachment implies an inability to feel in the present, but non-attachment might be that gold standard you are describing. As you were describing it, I felt a kind of DNA of the narcissists in my life: parent, ex-partner, ex-boss, and others. It felt good to realize that I achieved that indifference or non-attachment with the ex-boss. What you described made me feel a calibration for a future peace of mind about my current ‘Significant Narcissist’. (Not a partner or relative or friend, just a way to describe them by their effects on my life.) Thank you for giving us tools to put them in the rear view mirror, until they are only in our past. 🙏👋🕊
I appreciate all your posts. I can now understand my whole life as I can now put a name to what was done to me and how I have responded. And how I have to be indifferent and heal from 50+ years of different narcissistic behaviours.
It’s difficult. But slowly I’ll heal. I have to rise above it. To make my life worthwhile.
Thank you.
Thank you for all you do...
Beautifully put thank u for all you do.
Reconciliation is where I arrived: I have no more resources to invest, and just because I don't wish people ill doesn't mean I have to meditate on them. Our season is over, and it's time to keep it moving.
I was able to get to indifference when I stopped needing any validation or attention from the narcissists in my life. I had to realize they were never going to see me or care about me. I had been no contact 7 yrs and 9 yrs, , and the past was still hurting me because I hadn't let go of that need. In pursuing letting go, I realized that the relationships were never real and I had never mattered to them. (I had gaslighted myself with the idea that "they're family and family is there for one another). I proved to myself that I never mattered to them because the abuse and disrespect had gone on my entire life, and their behavior was anything BUT love. Once I realized I had never mattered, it made it way easier to get to "they don't matter." Don't care. I broke that feeling of being tied to them, emotionally, and energetically, for good. It's THE best state of being (not just an emotion, really) that there is after narcissistic abuse. I save my energy and emotions for people who are worthy of it. Greatest thing, ever. And it really does almost feel like a switch was thrown and I finally achieved (it IS an achievement) indifference. Ahhhhhhhhh!
I believe that reaching to the point of being indifferent to the toxic and narcissistic behaviours and just trying to do the best things for our life and people around us is a great victory and shows we have reached to a real high level of maturity.
maryam,You look cute 🌷🌹🌹
Detachment sounds like a conscious choice, while indifference sounds like a condition that is not chosen.
Then the former is a conscious choice and the later an option of having an applied attitude.
It resolves some ill feelings people have to potentiate discard 🙏
I am reminded of “I Forgot that You Existed” by Taylor Swift.
She also made a song with branden urie called me! They are narcs
I think Taylor Swift may be a narc.
DR. "INDIFFERENCE IS THE GOLD STANDARD!" IF A PERSON WERE TO WATCH ONLY ONE OF YOUR VIDEOS, THIS IS THE ONE. WHILE YOU PAY TRIBUTE TO THE IDEA OF PASSION , LUST FOR LIFE & THE TRADITIONAL VIEW OF INDIFFERENCE AS THE CORE VILLIAN OF SUCH PASSION, YOUR CASE IS SOLID. ERECTING & MAINTAINING A CLEAN SLATE, WIPING THE CHALKBOARD CLEAN, PERMANETLEY, OF ANY FEELINGS, REACTIONS, EMOTIONS FOR A NARCISSIST WHO PLAGUES & DESTROYS YOUR LIFE, INDIFFERENCE IS THE ANTITODE. WITH ALL THAT, NOT SO EASY. NOTHING GOOD EVER IS. PARTICULARLY WITH FAMILY. BECAUSE, CLEARLY EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TEATHERS & IS AT THE HEART OF ALL MEANINGFUL RELATIONSHIPS, PARTICULARLY FAMILY. I NEEDED THIS NOW, TO SOOTHE & MEDICATE A RECENT RAW EXPERIENCE, FAMILY ORIENTED. YOUR NUANCED & SOPHISTICATED WORK ONLINE, IS TREMENDOUS. THIS VIDEO , NAILS IT....MH.
In order to survive this type of abuse I had to acknowledge that some people don't deserve my respect, trust, or love. I have practiced indifference with them at the same time I continue to care and love myself and family members. This position has helped me heal and I am able to live a happier life.
I suffered many years of indifference, I was numb. Then the day came that I accepted the abuse and it made me think 'enough ... I am sick of feeling like this and I want to be happy'. I reached out for help. This was hard for me because I had been brainwashed to believe 'if I needed help then I am weak'. Dr. Ramani, you remind me of my therapist. She is one of my favourite people.
Dr. Ramani, I do some of this work with clients and call it “emotional detachment” and “internal boundaries.” In fact, I’m using it with a client who is currently in one of these relationships as a means to help her slowly regain her sense of independence and empowerment and to grow out of the relationship. Great video, thank you.
Please read my comment and tell me what you think cuz i need help
Michele Lanza Any chance you can copy and paste your comment here? There are so many comments now, I can’t find yours!
@@annikamin1637 how do I copy and paste my comment where you want it. Its so important
Michele Lanza If you’re using a smartphone of some kind, usually you can double tap on the text you want to copy (select the span of text and tap “copy”) and then here in our conversation, you would tap “reply” and then double tap to select “paste.” If that doesn’t work, maybe you could write it out again in a reply here? I know that’s a pain 😭
@@annikamin1637 didn't work so I will rewrite the whole thing and resend. It might be worded differently, but it will mean exactly the same thing.
I appreciate you're taking out the time because I need help
It did take a long time to get to feeling indifference about my narc 92 year old mom. It is exactly like the tool of detachment we learn in Alanon. Detaching from the outcome of someone else’s behavior. Detaching from needing or expecting anything from her. Let Go and Let God deal with her. Detachment/Indifference is a super power for survival
Indifference is the perfect wording for this! I knew in my heart that I was going to be fine when a couple of ‘flying monkeys’ reported some news about my narcissist and I thought, ‘This news doesn’t matter to me at all.’ Thank you for this validation, Dr. Ramani. It gets easier every day to trust my own truth.
One thing that can keep us emotionally linked to a narcissist is the pressure of social expectations in our family or community, who may be blind to the behavior of the narcissist, or who may be acting under the powerful inertia of "but we've always done it this way" or "that's the way it's always been." Becoming indifferent to the narcissist could potentially cost us our social network (family/church/community/workplace). And well-meaning but blind people who are in our network can unwittingly gaslight us about our decision not to stay engaged with the person who has harmed us - "But don't you care that he's alone for the holidays?" or "But she's your mother - she raised you," or "He's the father of your children." I have grown weary of trying to explain what the picture of narcissistic abuse looks like to the willfully blind. I am more isolated because of it, but I am also more sane. Indifference to the narcissist IS ultimately healing, but it may cost you some other relationships along the way. Be prepared for those losses.
God bless you...your comment is going to help a lot of people.
stay strong - you‘re not alone on your way 💪🙏
Absolutely. The circle shrinks greatly when you stand your ground for the sake of sanity. People love to enable the abuser in the name of “mercy and grace” yet blame the abused as being unforgiving and heartless. It’s truly an oxymoron.
@@Gracenglory5 Yes, an empty circle is best when healing from narcissistic abuse. I love solitude. It brings me peace and clarity of the mind and soul. It helps me to get alone with God my Very best friend. Ya'll check out What to do when people don't want you by RC Blakes here on YT, it's about healthy ways to deal with rejection.
Showing Christian charity as in love your enemy is fatal in cases of narcissistic abuse. That's the gag my Enabling Father always pulled on me.
Maybe u mean “to grow out of them” and be like a leaf landing on a beautiful landscape despite being blown away from a storm and being in worst of conditions .
Very well said doc “cant save everyone from the narc , they will figure out too someday “.
Thanks doc for such awesome topics ,videos ,explanations ,motivations and techniques to deal with deep hurts 🥰
Instead of “ indifference”, I’d call it “re-direction”
Re-directing my energy, time, love to where it’s needed and valued
Luv u dr ramani. Thx so very much. God bless you.
Indifference is helping me see him for who he really is and helping me get through this.
Indifference, emotional detachment, forgiveness: have the same meaning of detaching yourself from negative strings or experiences that they no longer have any control over your life. You will now have the mind space to heal and to love yourself, others and the world. You will be able to move on to greater things.
Write that book.
I don't believe one has to forgive the narc, but just let it go, detach.
Knowledge is power. You are dealing with someone who has paranoid ideations. Whatever kind thing you do for that person, they think you have an ulterior motive. You cannot be with someone like that. You can call it a personality disorder rather than a mental illness but at the end of the day, they are mental cases, that WILL NOT CHANGE. Look, I had 35 years working in Mental health and Learning disabilities in a professional capacity. Love will blind you for a while but once you get the facts and observe you can beat the heartache.
Lol...mental cases...love it. No glossing over and straight to the point...
Amazing and all so true xox
I'm in the beginning stages of indifference with my mother, she's starting to notice it too. I'm developing a system on how to deal with her. I have been working on my life, the more I do that, the further I get away from her. It feels SO GOOD 😊
YES!! Me to…everything you just said!!
@@aprilanderson6432 it is definitely a process
Indifference in relation to the narcisists in your life is the most liberating place you can arrive at. It is a blessed place. Let it be. Thank you dr Ramani❤
I'm offering "intentional emotional insulation" as an alternative to indifference.
Very nice, but it doesn't roll off the tongue very smoothly.
Thank you for speaking on being cognitively indifferent, but the body reacting in an entirely opposite way. This is exactly where I am in my healing journey. It happened to me two days ago, and I felt upset with myself having such a profound bodily reaction.
I get a profound feeling of anxiety in my solar plexus region when I am reminded of past trauma. Now I don't worry about the fact it will happen again under the same stimulus, but instead it is my reliable warning signal that occurs before I have a chance to even think about it consciously. Hese days I'm glad I have it, it has saved me from experiencing the same types of trauma I experienced in the distant past.
Sweet sweet indifference. I remember when my moment came and I started LAUGHING in my covert narcs face during one of his rants because I finally saw him as a man child throwing a temper tantrum. Of course my physically abusive narc didnt like that... BUT I DIDNT CARE. I knew I had to go at that point and started planning my escape while managing the narc.... As an empath, it's hard to not feel. But if you can control your energy, control your super power, and sympathize without making the narcs burdens your own burden to bear. Empaths, STOP feeling guilty about leaving the narc at his saddest/lowest point- you cant save him. That's between God and him. It will be ok. Praying for us all 💛
Yes I have reached indifference and actually don't give a hoot anymore. Do whatever, who cares, just stay out of my way. It took a long five years but it feels sooo liberating. I feel much healthier and happier now after discarding that toxic waste. I highly recommend this life saving indifference!
Life changing. Thank you for this. You are one of the few out there who truly understands the complex dynamic and you break it down so relatably. We know we aren't alone here ❤
I really needed this 💛 I let go of a narc friend and she’s spreading rumors about me, which is making the process even worse. Your videos help me a lot
Indeed, as previously mentioned, the word used in CODA recovery is "detachment." I've been in the program for 2 years and the process of emerging from the darkness has been my salvation, spiritually and psychologically. I've just discovered your videos (wish I had sooner) and I so much appreciate how spot-on you are in terms of precisely where I am right now. It's still pretty dark but there's a light at the end now. I've waded through so many elementary videos explaining codependency, and others that seem downright brutal with glib relationship advice...now along with the works of Melody Beattie, I've found a priceless resource. Look forward to hearing your podcast as well. Thanks a million!
It's not indifference but turning off your EMPATHY. Empathy is a gift not meant to be shared with every unworthy person..so guard it, protect it and share it with those who reciprocate. Great video. Super helpful.