Been there! We can't fix anyone. They have to do the work themselves and then prove it by showing long term change. I know it's frickin hard, but that's why so many won't do it.
Please ladies....if your dude starts supposedly joking about killing animals or people....just leave immediately. Dont even say anything....just leave, because you never know what they could do to you.
God I feel this comment in my soul. I have a thing for attracting broken men, most have long records. However, I got sooo lucky. My son's father made such major improvements since his jails trips! Sadly, that isn't always the case. I was abused for over 10 years from my daughter's father, he almost killed me. The recorded call, where she says I don't think you're dangerous!... God it broke my heart!!
Same here. I’m constantly trying to fix everybody else &everything, except usually myself!! Uggghthis does hit hard…this could have totally happened to me :(
I also empathize with her and people who are kind. But the concept of being a so called fixer is inherently condescending. Perhaps self described fixers do want to help others and see them do better. But how much is genuine kindness and how much is covert control/manipulation is not known. We all have motives which are private and self serving despite being perceived as kind on the outside. This woman seemed to be smitten with this guy despite the very obvious red flags. After listening to her list multiple rules and criteria for him, i knew things were going to go south immediately. I knew there was no way this man would be happy following all of these imposed rules despite how well he feigned complaince on the phone with her. This man couldn't wait to kill her as soon as he could. My guess is that she wanted to either talk about or actually start to do all those chores she communicated on the phone and expected him to be a good little boy....but no. He was dangerous and coniving since birth and its a shame she couldnt hear past his sweet nothings.
@@Hifive91 Very insightful comment, especially the condescension aspect of being a "fixer." Also, let's face it, she wasn't helping him solely out of the goodness of her heart-- she also thought he was hot. She wouldn't have been so eager to help him if he were old, bald, and obese.
Yes. I don't know if she knew what love even is either. Even if this dude somehow became law abiding he'd have the personality and maturity of a plank of wood (listen to the phone calls). She was operating strictly on physical attraction for a much younger man. She bailed out a violent criminal and was killed for it (RIP) but unfortunately her 'generosity' nearly got a college student killed too. Reminds me of the Otto Warmbier case. It's sad but the victim is completely devoid of common sense.
I know unsolved cases are very important to put out there, but the solved ones are my favorite. I love to see the victims get justice! Love your videos Rachel! 🥰
@@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060 I agree - there was something about how he said it that screamed of insincerity. It's as if he was saying as long as your helping me out I'll keep telling you that I love you so I can use you more.
Poor Cathryn. This whole relationship started off strange. She wanted to help this stranger guy because he has a broken foot? Idk the psychology in that but it’s weird. The fact that women in this day and age still think they can fix a man amazes me. She couldn’t have predicted this outcome but let this be a lesson to women out there. When you have to help a man right off the bat will his bills, run like hell!!
Way too many of us are terrified of being alone or believe loneliness is worse than abuse. Breaks my heart because solitude is a lovely thing to embrace and even encourage. The stigma of being alone doesn’t help. Something was wrong with sweet, kind Cathryn to be involved with someone so obviously f-ed up, let alone paying his bills off the bat.
After looking up pictures of Charlie im entirely convinced she didnt want to save him cause she thought he was good like she told the bondsman, she just thought he was crazy hot. People are so willing to overlook red flags (no matter how many there are) if the person is attractive enough.
I haven’t finished the video yet, but am I the only one disturbed that a kindergarten teacher would even entertain a conversation about killing an animal or cutting up a baby?? Oh that’s scary. ☹️
Both of my kids were in her class and I worked with her as a teachers aid. She was a great teacher. I struggled with hearing the details of her relationship with this monster. But I can only say that she was the type of person who tried to save people. I think she just was tired of being lonely. I feel so terrible thinking of this whole situation.
@dejaspears5351 aw man! 😢 I pray ur kids r okay after learning abt this tragedy. I had an 8th grade teacher retire n 2 weeks after school let out she passed away n I was crushed. I can't imagine in kindergarten
I honestly think she just thought she could save him & change those ways. She prob didn't wanna seem off put by the comment and run him off in fear that no one else would be willing to help him. I also think extreme loneliness had a lot to do with it. So very sad 😢
Unreal!!!...She was laughing on the phone like he was just joking around...she had no idea just how nuts he really was...May God give her family peace and comfort.
The way she speaks on the phone with him in jail reminds me so, so much of my ex fiancée and I. Just toxic, sick, unrealistic, dangerous shit. Thank god I’m okay.
My mother works with delinquents as an art therapist and teacher in a prison and not a day goes by where i'm not worried but i am also proud cause rarely do they change after growing up on the streets. Case was quite heartbreaking,having a good heart in this world can sometimes be seen as a flaw but i truly believe she wanted to rehabilitate this young man,such a shame.
There are crimes that can be avoided and this one is one of the them.We have to learn from all cases, never ever get involved with a criminal.She though that she could help him , but we can’t help a criminal.It’s sad that her life was taken by this psychopath.
I’m an ex con. It’s unfair to say never get involved with someone who has a criminal background but rather say make sure there’s been sufficient time since the crimes were committed and make sure there is actual change and no new charges after 10 years or whatever amount of time. Some of us aren’t bad people but instead made a bad decision
one of my biggest questions about this whole thing is, if his sister KNEW how dangerous he was, why would she let him around her children ???? are you kidding me ???
I thought this too, but then it also made me think of how even as psychotic as he was from the drugs & whatever else his sister is proof he was able to control it somewhat. For instance, he forced them out of her car & took off without causing them harm. While he could’ve done the same with Catherine, but as we all know he did not.
There's a thin line between wanting to help someone you love and wanting to fix someone like it's a project. At some point, it becomes a way to control people by doing all these things you think can transform them into who you want them to be. Manipulators come in different forms and yes, "fixers" are manipulators.
You're absolutely CORRECT 💯 Sadly, ladies who desperately looking for love without bottomline/boundaries usually ended up being victims to cat-fish/love-scam/crazy psychopath. 2023June14th, Wed
No one can blame her for someone else’s actions ! The only one to blame is the person who in my opinion knew he was using her and took advantage of her beautiful nature to benefit his own needs . None of us are safe ever …….anything can happen to any of us anywhere anytime……..there are all sorts of situations we put ourselves in that could bring us harm. Sadly even helping others can bring us harm but having a good heart should never mean it’s the victims fault . Yes she was probably out of her ‘ comfort zone ‘ helping someone in this situation & probably did have reservations about the situation but she saw potential in him & I believe we’ve all been ’sucked in’ by someone who wasn’t who they were pretending to be …….sadly this beautiful woman lost her life because her heart was beautiful his was rotten to the core !! Dreadfully dreadfully sad 😢
Yeah I feel bad for her. She seems like she was a genuinely good person. It is unfortunate that she was so naive though. She should have known better than to bail him out, just based off the way he was talking. She was a dog owner, and yet she bailed out a violent criminal, who was saying he wanted to kill a dog. Whether it seemed like he was joking or not, that alone should have been a big red flag. Not to mention everything else. SMH. I don't blame her though she just didn't really know better. I blame the system for the fact he was granted bail to begin with. He never should have been given the opportunity to be bailed out. That would have prevented the whole situation. There should also be limitations on who is allowed to bail out a violent criminal. That would help protect unwitting victims from con artists.
Wow this poor lady so smart and likable and lonely and vulnerable. I'm so sorry she got caught up with this guy. There were so many Red flags and they were ignored.
Some people don't understand you can't love a mental health problem away! This sweet naive girl was murdered for someone she barely new!! How heartbreaking.
Just another reason why you do not help crazy!! God love her. She did not stand a chance 😢 Sending love to her family, friends and students ❤️ Hope her dog is well looked after 💔
She just wanted to "fix" him....& to have his attention. So sad. Condolences to her loved ones😞-and to her sweet fur-babies🐶🐕. I hope they got to stay together & went to a good home🤞. 🕯
I cringed when she returned to the restaurant because she did what so many of us do or think about doing. And when she asked him if he’s dangerous on their phone call? 😮💨 Hindsight is surely 20/20
Rachel, you cover majority cases ive never heard of & i only watch true crime on YT, nothing else (no im not into gore or a psycho, i have a fear of murder & watch to see if there are ways to prevent these things). You are doing amazing and an empathetic caring voice for ALL victims from ALL walks of life & ive never even heard a tone of judgement in your voice even about victims who didnt always "light the room up when they walked in". I cant wait to see you keep growing.
not feeling sorry for that woman what so ever, feel sorry for the dog plus her family! YOU cannot heal addiction for the addict, only THEY themselves can do that. Get away from them, plain and simple.
Not the victim's fault. I had an ex who manipulated me, cheated, abused drugs, and abused me. It took years, and him going to prison, for me to have the courage to leave for good. But in this situation, Katherine was always a target for Charlie. He saw her as an easy target and the teacher in her really just wanted to nurture him. A fkg shame.
Ironic that she was trying to "fix" him when it sounds like she should have been focusing on fixing herself first. Sometimes people try to fix others to avoid the problems they have. Neither of them were healthy people, obviously he was a psychopath. But he was a walking red flag..she deliberately ignored all warning signs. She didn't even know him for her to be in love with him.
Hi Rachel Shannon this True Crime Case sounds so scary because you never know what could happen so that why we got be careful with people because we don’t know if we can trust them or not and it’s Sad that people Become Killers and Kidnappers so sad
Sheesh. Why on earth would she be that desperate?!?! That being said, he had this plan from the beginning, lure her in, get him out, then he killed her to steal her car/money.
I’m a new subscriber and already binging. You’re work is incredible and your voice great for night time too when I’m winding down. Thrilled to join the community. Thanks and regards from Tampa
I live in Tucson and my sister lives in Flagstaff so a lot of these places are very familiar to me but I have never heard of this crazy story! What a pos to kill somebody so casually when all she was trying to do is help him out! RIP Cathryn 🙏
I just started watching and omgosh, so many places jump out at me!! For instance, my mother-in-law worked for the Grand Canyon Railway mostly in the restaurant in Williams (where she lived from the mid-90s until early 2004 when she moved to FL) but sometimes on the train itself. Also, my kids attended Parkridge Elementary in Peoria from 2011 til 2014 (2nd thru 4th grades), so I know EXACTLY where Deer Valley Elementary school is located! I am so familiar with all these places you are mentioning! Wow!!
I grew up in Tucson and Scottsdale. All of this is so familiar to me and I definitely lived about 15 minutes from ASU during this time. How scary and sad!! Thank you for sharing!
I don't understand how she could look at his record and knowingly keep being involved with him. Even the disturbing murder comments...lady how many warning signs do you need?!
I was a detention officer the night Charlie was released and I told him to stay out of trouble ; he reassured me that he would so when I found out that she went missing, I was horrified. I’m so sad for her family, friends, and students who miss her dearly. Rip Kathryn.
I have a good friend like Cathryn who is also a teacher. She is 41 and pours her heart into her students and job. She is kind and beautiful but at 41 she really wants to find a husband and cant seem to find a decent man. Her self etseem is at an all time low and I worry that the wrong guy will take advantage of her insecurities and low self worth.
I’m not sure of the reason why Charlie killed her, but I don’t think he had any intention of staying with her past the ride off the prison grounds. His sister stated no one had ever taken an interest in helping him. Instead of appreciating Cathryn, he immediately starts his phone conversation with “Get me out of here. When are you getting me out of here?” That was my first warning flag. It makes me so sad to think about the moment Cathryn realized he totally betrayed her. 😢
Respectfully, we have to stop this narrative that criticism is the same as “victim blaming”. This just was a terrible idea, no she didn’t deserve any of this. But the idea that her actions her nothing to do it, are absolutely crazy.
If people are calling criticizing this woman victim blaming, they're not using the term correctly. Victim blaming is like Candace Owens saying "George Floyd had a criminal record and had a fake $20 bill the day he died" (so? Police didn't need to kill him to subdue him).
@@GodsServant543 well-said. There were common sense types of issues that were totally ignored. It's kind of like wearing a safety belt... No, someone who dies in an accident without one doesn't 'deserve' to die, but you have to protect yourself in this life.
As someone who has been with a guy that frequently joked about killing people… this is my worst nightmare. And PLEASE, if the person you’re seeing starts to make these types of “dark jokes” LEAVE THEM
I could tell from the jump that he was a consistent meth user, and then as soon as I heard him on the jail call, it was confirmed. This is a sick individual that turned to drug use to cope with his scary thoughts and ended up becoming uncontrollable.
He never cared for her and I think he knew he was gonna kill her once he finally talked her into bailing him out , poor lady , I can see me doing something like that, because I always think that I can help and fix someone , or should I say use to be that way , lately I tell myself DTA , the world is crazy and some people are just plain heartless and cruel so don't trust anyone , too bad this lady didn't think like that sooner 😭💔
You’d think police would have checked out his story when they caught him with the credit card, instead of just letting him go. They should have had verified who the card belonged to 😑 what a monster. Also I honestly feel like families should have a day before deals are made that take the death penalty off the table. That should be a decision run by the family of the victim.
I’m sorry but wtf some people really lack common sense like why would u bail out someone who would talk about killing animals and babies …. At that point it’s not about having a big heart like do people not have morals??
This case makes my blood boil! It's hard to see an ungrateful manipulator hurt someone who is clearly trying to help him. She was clearly a special person who would've continued making a positive difference in people's lives if she had the chance.
I can’t comment without negative comments. Charlie is/was a known MONSTER… She was taken in by the attention of a male…. Hearing her say she didn’t care what people thought of him sends a message that she herself didn’t care! She took the risk, he was just doing what monsters do.. If you know a dog bites, don’t put your hand in front of it.. Sad for her, her family, friends and students.
Exactly, I just got to the part where she said she “enjoyed his dark side”. This is more than just a fixer/goodness of their heart story. Would these “fixers” help ugly fat guys out of the goodness of their heart? She was attracted to this guy, period. Major bad boy vibes. And i think you’re right, she could have gotten someone else hurt doing whatever this creep manipulated her to do. Scary on all counts. A shame she had to pay with her life. Hopefully this will be a cautionary tale for others.
And I call bullshit on the "oh I wanted to fix Charlie shit" nah Charlie was actually pretty good looking so she loved the sex which blinded her from reality . Wake up ladies wake up . Not all jailbirds are your killers lol
@@jessrouse8475 true but... This one was in jail for violent crime AND *she* (not his family, not his friends) had to be the one to bail him out (and took out a mortgage on her house to pay it.) No, jail birds aren't all killers, most of it is drugs and theft, but in this instance it was like... Is sleeping with him worth $30 K or whatever? Most men do it for free.
I’m sorry at 44, not that she deserves what happened to her at all, but hell she really should have had the life wisdom/maturity to know that you can’t “fix” your partner. I expect a woman in her early 20 to 30’s to have the naive faith of “changing” someone but in your 40’s to do this means there are more selfish reasons
"Are you that dangerous?" Come on Catheryn, he pulled a 🔫 on his own sister and carjacked her. Of course he's "that dangerous!" I try not to "victim blame," but this lady ignored very strong warning signs....
You should be proud of yourself for your ability to meet others where THEY are in order to have some understanding. I assume people who victim blame feel better about themselves by doing so, but we don't learn anything from that. We're all humans just doing the best we can and judging someone for having a helping heart is just disgusting. How she died is not how she lived. Love to all who knew and loved this beautiful lady💖✨
This is so sad and the level of loneliness and desperation was off the charts. It should have never happened, but come now. There were plenty of less attractive men closer to her age, with fewer issues that she could have tried to help. Such serious delusion to think that man wanted her for anything beyond using her.
That guy was a nut, a con man, and evil too. He sounds like he was either on meth or had something like schizophrenia, maybe even a combination of both drug use, and a mental disorder. The incident with his sister driving him in her van was what first made me think that. He really should not have even been given bail. Also there should be some limitations on who is allowed to bail a violent criminal out, IMO. There needs to be more oversight. Edit: I would not have bailed someone out who was talking about killing dogs, and babies. She had a dog even, and he was saying sh*t like that, and it didn't make her uncomfortable!? WTF was she thinking? SMH. She was like a lamb to the slaughter.
Cathryn seems very immature for her age in the phone calls. After he tells her the most fake "I love you" in history at 10:19, it's especially tragic when she tells him: "we'll let people think whatever they need to think..."(she knew what she was doing was counter culture and she seems to childishly revel in doing something rebellious and dangerous - she even asks him "are you that dangerous?"). Clearly, she should have listened more to her family and friends, the people that actually loved and cared for her. He was using her with the subtlety of a child , and for some reason, she was ok with that. I disagree with the world view that victims have no responsibility in their demise: a) her lust most likely clouded her good judgement (just like men that foolishly lose their money and sometimes marriage to younger women abroad) and b) she ignored the reasons why society vehemently discourage women that date repeat drug addicted violent felons: it is because society is aware that such women are placing themselves in harms way and society wishes to help these women make better choices through shared moral societal pressures. We should not humiliate victims, but we should also not pretend that their tragic end was not at all foreseeable by outsiders or the victim themselves.
I totally agree with you about how and why he killed her. She started just having a logical talk about a game plan to keep him on track and he saw this as controlling him and he snapped. He wanted guns and drugs immediately so he killed her to get them.
I am sorry but she had to be smarter. She sounded like a 15 year old girl on that jail phone call. "You aren't dangerous, tee hee" . It was NOT her fault, but C'mon... C'mon...
Life lesson: Only get involved in a relationship with people who already have their life together. It’s not our job to fix people. Why anyone would want to be in a relationship with a criminal and drug addict, etc, I will never understand. It’s not her fault that she was murdered, of course, but there are things we can do as women to protect ourselves. Women should learn from this.
Let be real here, she is an desperate older woman, she found him hot and his looks cloud her judgment. So telling people that she wants to fix him sound a lot better than oh I found him hot
It's a hard lesson to learn that most people won't change, we can't fix them or their problems!
You’re totally right
That's very true...
@@RachelShannon I’m super guilty of that. Working on it now
Been there! We can't fix anyone. They have to do the work themselves and then prove it by showing long term change. I know it's frickin hard, but that's why so many won't do it.
Agreed, but you can get them help, it’s up to them whether they want to take it but after that it’s fully out of your control.
Please ladies....if your dude starts supposedly joking about killing animals or people....just leave immediately. Dont even say anything....just leave, because you never know what they could do to you.
This! 💯
Agree!
So true!!!!
Totally agree
@@Bailsaurasif you see things in someone that makes u think of a SK you probably shouldn't be with them....thats a major red flag lol
As someone who’s been a “fixer,” this case definitely hits different. Poor lady. 🥺
God I feel this comment in my soul.
I have a thing for attracting broken men, most have long records.
However, I got sooo lucky. My son's father made such major improvements since his jails trips! Sadly, that isn't always the case. I was abused for over 10 years from my daughter's father, he almost killed me.
The recorded call, where she says I don't think you're dangerous!... God it broke my heart!!
Same here. I’m constantly trying to fix everybody else &everything, except usually myself!! Uggghthis does hit hard…this could have totally happened to me :(
I'm so sorry she thought she could help charlie's foot and charlie in general, by returning to the restaurant. : (
It's a fixers nightmare.
I also empathize with her and people who are kind. But the concept of being a so called fixer is inherently condescending. Perhaps self described fixers do want to help others and see them do better. But how much is genuine kindness and how much is covert control/manipulation is not known. We all have motives which are private and self serving despite being perceived as kind on the outside. This woman seemed to be smitten with this guy despite the very obvious red flags. After listening to her list multiple rules and criteria for him, i knew things were going to go south immediately. I knew there was no way this man would be happy following all of these imposed rules despite how well he feigned complaince on the phone with her. This man couldn't wait to kill her as soon as he could. My guess is that she wanted to either talk about or actually start to do all those chores she communicated on the phone and expected him to be a good little boy....but no. He was dangerous and coniving since birth and its a shame she couldnt hear past his sweet nothings.
@@Hifive91 Very insightful comment, especially the condescension aspect of being a "fixer." Also, let's face it, she wasn't helping him solely out of the goodness of her heart-- she also thought he was hot. She wouldn't have been so eager to help him if he were old, bald, and obese.
Her biggest mistake was thinking she could change somebody.
Right
Yes. I don't know if she knew what love even is either. Even if this dude somehow became law abiding he'd have the personality and maturity of a plank of wood (listen to the phone calls). She was operating strictly on physical attraction for a much younger man. She bailed out a violent criminal and was killed for it (RIP) but unfortunately her 'generosity' nearly got a college student killed too. Reminds me of the Otto Warmbier case. It's sad but the victim is completely devoid of common sense.
I know unsolved cases are very important to put out there, but the solved ones are my favorite. I love to see the victims get justice!
Love your videos Rachel! 🥰
solved cases are my fav too!!!
I don’t think that Charlie ever cared for her she was just his only way out of jail.
yup. that "i love you" was "thank you for saving my butt".
@@sunnybearbuds exactly. The way he said it was the same way you may say I love you to a coworker for coming in early for you or something like that.
@@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060 LOL! Nice. Exactly.
Duhhhhh
@@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060 I agree - there was something about how he said it that screamed of insincerity. It's as if he was saying as long as your helping me out I'll keep telling you that I love you so I can use you more.
I laughed out loud when you said she’d talk about her day at school and he’d talk about his day at jail 💀
Poor Cathryn. This whole relationship started off strange. She wanted to help this stranger guy because he has a broken foot? Idk the psychology in that but it’s weird. The fact that women in this day and age still think they can fix a man amazes me. She couldn’t have predicted this outcome but let this be a lesson to women out there. When you have to help a man right off the bat will his bills, run like hell!!
Eat your meal and run! Don’t get involved
Way too many of us are terrified of being alone or believe loneliness is worse than abuse.
Breaks my heart because solitude is a lovely thing to embrace and even encourage. The stigma of being alone doesn’t help.
Something was wrong with sweet, kind Cathryn to be involved with someone so obviously f-ed up, let alone paying his bills off the bat.
After looking up pictures of Charlie im entirely convinced she didnt want to save him cause she thought he was good like she told the bondsman, she just thought he was crazy hot. People are so willing to overlook red flags (no matter how many there are) if the person is attractive enough.
I haven’t finished the video yet, but am I the only one disturbed that a kindergarten teacher would even entertain a conversation about killing an animal or cutting up a baby?? Oh that’s scary. ☹️
RIGHT LIKE HOW IS THAT A JOKE
Both of my kids were in her class and I worked with her as a teachers aid. She was a great teacher. I struggled with hearing the details of her relationship with this monster. But I can only say that she was the type of person who tried to save people. I think she just was tired of being lonely. I feel so terrible thinking of this whole situation.
@dejaspears5351 aw man! 😢 I pray ur kids r okay after learning abt this tragedy. I had an 8th grade teacher retire n 2 weeks after school let out she passed away n I was crushed. I can't imagine in kindergarten
I honestly think she just thought she could save him & change those ways. She prob didn't wanna seem off put by the comment and run him off in fear that no one else would be willing to help him. I also think extreme loneliness had a lot to do with it. So very sad 😢
She wasn't the saint the media is portraying her to be.
Unreal!!!...She was laughing on the phone like he was just joking around...she had no idea just how nuts he really was...May God give her family peace and comfort.
He manipulated her. I don’t think he ever cared for her. People like Charlie, don’t care about anyone but themselves. R.I.P.
Agreed
@@RachelShannon She was his means to an end, money. Drugs is what he cared about.
Right
The way she speaks on the phone with him in jail reminds me so, so much of my ex fiancée and I. Just toxic, sick, unrealistic, dangerous shit. Thank god I’m okay.
My mother works with delinquents as an art therapist and teacher in a prison and not a day goes by where i'm not worried but i am also proud cause rarely do they change after growing up on the streets. Case was quite heartbreaking,having a good heart in this world can sometimes be seen as a flaw but i truly believe she wanted to rehabilitate this young man,such a shame.
What are delinquents?
@@joannab7504underage (edit:not over 18 in Europe) male/female juvenile criminals just another word for it
i knew her since i was a baby and she was my favorite person ever. she was also the sweetest soul. miss you cathryn💚
(also my moms bestfriend)
Life can be so lonely. It’s such a tragedy, she wanted her own love story so desperately. 😔😢😔
There are crimes that can be avoided and this one is one of the them.We have to learn from all cases, never ever get involved with a criminal.She though that she could help him , but we can’t help a criminal.It’s sad that her life was taken by this psychopath.
I’m an ex con. It’s unfair to say never get involved with someone who has a criminal background but rather say make sure there’s been sufficient time since the crimes were committed and make sure there is actual change and no new charges after 10 years or whatever amount of time. Some of us aren’t bad people but instead made a bad decision
"never get involved with a criminal" bro get OVER yourself 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I can't believe this young lady bailed him.out of jail and he repaid her by taking her life. Sheesh.
No good deed goes unpunished.
one of my biggest questions about this whole thing is, if his sister KNEW how dangerous he was, why would she let him around her children ???? are you kidding me ???
Well not every monsters are violent towards children and she was there with them.
I thought this too, but then it also made me think of how even as psychotic as he was from the drugs & whatever else his sister is proof he was able to control it somewhat. For instance, he forced them out of her car & took off without causing them harm. While he could’ve done the same with Catherine, but as we all know he did not.
There's a thin line between wanting to help someone you love and wanting to fix someone like it's a project. At some point, it becomes a way to control people by doing all these things you think can transform them into who you want them to be. Manipulators come in different forms and yes, "fixers" are manipulators.
That's deep and a great perspective!
Like anti-social Charlie was really gonna follow her “rules”. Completely delusional.
This is sad. I hope someone out there sees this and it saves someone's life.
Thank you for all the thoughtfulness, care, and respect you give victims each and every week Rachel! Such a heartbreaking case once again 💔
It's so important to raise our daughters with a healthy self asteem..she felt flattered by this younger man.
You're absolutely CORRECT 💯
Sadly, ladies who desperately looking for love without bottomline/boundaries usually ended up being victims to cat-fish/love-scam/crazy psychopath.
2023June14th, Wed
This is one of the craziest stories I've heard. Just all of it wow. Prayers to her family
No one can blame her for someone else’s actions ! The only one to blame is the person who in my opinion knew he was using her and took advantage of her beautiful nature to benefit his own needs .
None of us are safe ever …….anything can happen to any of us anywhere anytime……..there are all sorts of situations we put ourselves in that could bring us harm.
Sadly even helping others can bring us harm but having a good heart should never mean it’s the victims fault .
Yes she was probably out of her ‘ comfort zone ‘ helping someone in this situation & probably did have reservations about the situation but she saw potential in him & I believe we’ve all been ’sucked in’ by someone who wasn’t who they were pretending to be …….sadly this beautiful woman lost her life because her heart was beautiful his was rotten to the core !!
Dreadfully dreadfully sad 😢
Totally agree. This is a really good take on all of this
Suas (le) Ulaid.
Yeah I feel bad for her. She seems like she was a genuinely good person. It is unfortunate that she was so naive though. She should have known better than to bail him out, just based off the way he was talking. She was a dog owner, and yet she bailed out a violent criminal, who was saying he wanted to kill a dog. Whether it seemed like he was joking or not, that alone should have been a big red flag. Not to mention everything else. SMH. I don't blame her though she just didn't really know better. I blame the system for the fact he was granted bail to begin with. He never should have been given the opportunity to be bailed out. That would have prevented the whole situation. There should also be limitations on who is allowed to bail out a violent criminal. That would help protect unwitting victims from con artists.
Wow this poor lady so smart and likable and lonely and vulnerable. I'm so sorry she got caught up with this guy. There were so many Red flags and they were ignored.
So tragic - she seems to have had a good heart ❤️
You think
Thanks for sharing this case. Such a tragedy. 🙏
Some people don't understand you can't love a mental health problem away! This sweet naive girl was murdered for someone she barely new!! How heartbreaking.
Just another reason why you do not help crazy!! God love her. She did not stand a chance 😢 Sending love to her family, friends and students ❤️ Hope her dog is well looked after 💔
It amazes me that a murderer kills but isn’t willing to die for their crimes.
The way you said the things about her was just so beautiful !!!! ❤
She just wanted to "fix" him....& to have his attention. So sad. Condolences to her loved ones😞-and to her sweet fur-babies🐶🐕. I hope they got to stay together & went to a good home🤞. 🕯
I cringed when she returned to the restaurant because she did what so many of us do or think about doing. And when she asked him if he’s dangerous on their phone call? 😮💨 Hindsight is surely 20/20
Rachel, you cover majority cases ive never heard of & i only watch true crime on YT, nothing else (no im not into gore or a psycho, i have a fear of murder & watch to see if there are ways to prevent these things). You are doing amazing and an empathetic caring voice for ALL victims from ALL walks of life & ive never even heard a tone of judgement in your voice even about victims who didnt always "light the room up when they walked in". I cant wait to see you keep growing.
not feeling sorry for that woman what so ever, feel sorry for the dog plus her family!
YOU cannot heal addiction for the addict, only THEY themselves can do that. Get away from them, plain and simple.
Not the victim's fault. I had an ex who manipulated me, cheated, abused drugs, and abused me. It took years, and him going to prison, for me to have the courage to leave for good. But in this situation, Katherine was always a target for Charlie. He saw her as an easy target and the teacher in her really just wanted to nurture him. A fkg shame.
Ironic that she was trying to "fix" him when it sounds like she should have been focusing on fixing herself first. Sometimes people try to fix others to avoid the problems they have. Neither of them were healthy people, obviously he was a psychopath. But he was a walking red flag..she deliberately ignored all warning signs. She didn't even know him for her to be in love with him.
Hi Rachel Shannon this True Crime Case sounds so scary because you never know what could happen so that why we got be careful with people because we don’t know if we can trust them or not and it’s Sad that people Become Killers and Kidnappers so sad
Sheesh. Why on earth would she be that desperate?!?! That being said, he had this plan from the beginning, lure her in, get him out, then he killed her to steal her car/money.
Haven’t started the video yet, but I already know that this will be a tragic one
I’m a new subscriber and already binging. You’re work is incredible and your voice great for night time too when I’m winding down. Thrilled to join the community. Thanks and regards from Tampa
You saying “whole a$$ arm off” just made me love your channel even more lol
Excellent video. Truly devastating for her family 😥🥺
I live in Tucson and my sister lives in Flagstaff so a lot of these places are very familiar to me but I have never heard of this crazy story! What a pos to kill somebody so casually when all she was trying to do is help him out! RIP Cathryn 🙏
I just started watching and omgosh, so many places jump out at me!! For instance, my mother-in-law worked for the Grand Canyon Railway mostly in the restaurant in Williams (where she lived from the mid-90s until early 2004 when she moved to FL) but sometimes on the train itself. Also, my kids attended Parkridge Elementary in Peoria from 2011 til 2014 (2nd thru 4th grades), so I know EXACTLY where Deer Valley Elementary school is located! I am so familiar with all these places you are mentioning! Wow!!
I grew up in Tucson and Scottsdale. All of this is so familiar to me and I definitely lived about 15 minutes from ASU during this time. How scary and sad!! Thank you for sharing!
Geez this case is just awful. No way did she see this coming, she really thought she could help him. Her kind heart was her downfall.
No, it's just your typical case of #dick2bomb
She was a simp.
I don't understand how she could look at his record and knowingly keep being involved with him. Even the disturbing murder comments...lady how many warning signs do you need?!
@@belladonna5904
exactly! she did it to herself... ignore all that and everything that follows is on your own shoulders.
I saw it coming. Criminals commit crimes.
I was a detention officer the night Charlie was released and I told him to stay out of trouble ; he reassured me that he would so when I found out that she went missing, I was horrified. I’m so sad for her family, friends, and students who miss her dearly. Rip Kathryn.
I have a good friend like Cathryn who is also a teacher. She is 41 and pours her heart into her students and job. She is kind and beautiful but at 41 she really wants to find a husband and cant seem to find a decent man. Her self etseem is at an all time low and I worry that the wrong guy will take advantage of her insecurities and low self worth.
Let this be an example. You can’t polish a turd
your friend has indeed all the features of being vulnerable and not see what could be wrong with a man she fell in love with... take good care of her
I’m not sure of the reason why Charlie killed her, but I don’t think he had any intention of staying with her past the ride off the prison grounds. His sister stated no one had ever taken an interest in helping him. Instead of appreciating Cathryn, he immediately starts his phone conversation with “Get me out of here. When are you getting me out of here?” That was my first warning flag. It makes me so sad to think about the moment Cathryn realized he totally betrayed her. 😢
Unfortunately very nice people get sucked into very awful people with so often tragic results.
That was a great pod cast Rachel , really enjoyed it , poor girl I feel sorry for whom was only trying to help the guy , thanks for posting
Enjoying true crime is kinda twisted.
Respectfully, we have to stop this narrative that criticism is the same as “victim blaming”. This just was a terrible idea, no she didn’t deserve any of this. But the idea that her actions her nothing to do it, are absolutely crazy.
If people are calling criticizing this woman victim blaming, they're not using the term correctly. Victim blaming is like Candace Owens saying "George Floyd had a criminal record and had a fake $20 bill the day he died" (so? Police didn't need to kill him to subdue him).
You couldn’t be more right. No one deserves what happened to her, but she was too grown to be so delusional and irresponsible.
@@GodsServant543 well-said. There were common sense types of issues that were totally ignored. It's kind of like wearing a safety belt... No, someone who dies in an accident without one doesn't 'deserve' to die, but you have to protect yourself in this life.
As someone who has been with a guy that frequently joked about killing people… this is my worst nightmare. And PLEASE, if the person you’re seeing starts to make these types of “dark jokes” LEAVE THEM
❤🧡💛You rock Rachel!! Thank you for the good content!!❤🧡💛
Thank you so much!
When someone is in jail, let them learn the lesson
Agreed
You deserve way more subs than what you have. I’ve been asking people i know to sub.
Right!! She puts so much work in on these cases..
Thank you sharing this hun 💕💕💕😘
Thank you for watching!
@@RachelShannon always Enjoy every video and updates 😃😃
Prayers for her family and friends……
I could tell from the jump that he was a consistent meth user, and then as soon as I heard him on the jail call, it was confirmed. This is a sick individual that turned to drug use to cope with his scary thoughts and ended up becoming uncontrollable.
"Whole ass arm off!!" 😆😆 You're so cute!💜
He never cared for her and I think he knew he was gonna kill her once he finally talked her into bailing him out , poor lady , I can see me doing something like that, because I always think that I can help and fix someone , or should I say use to be that way , lately I tell myself DTA , the world is crazy and some people are just plain heartless and cruel so don't trust anyone , too bad this lady didn't think like that sooner 😭💔
What a sad case😢💔of a young teacher. I think he slapped because he was on meth thanks you for covering this case.🌌👼
You’d think police would have checked out his story when they caught him with the credit card, instead of just letting him go. They should have had verified who the card belonged to 😑 what a monster.
Also I honestly feel like families should have a day before deals are made that take the death penalty off the table. That should be a decision run by the family of the victim.
I’m sorry but wtf some people really lack common sense like why would u bail out someone who would talk about killing animals and babies …. At that point it’s not about having a big heart like do people not have morals??
I too am guilty of trying to help someone who couldn’t be helped. I feel so bad for her and her family.
Hard to feel too sorry for Kathrine since it's her fault all those others were victims because she got a monster out☠️☠️☠️
This case makes my blood boil! It's hard to see an ungrateful manipulator hurt someone who is clearly trying to help him. She was clearly a special person who would've continued making a positive difference in people's lives if she had the chance.
I feel like this could happen to anyone with a kind heart. So very sad for her family.
I can’t comment without negative comments.
Charlie is/was a known MONSTER…
She was taken in by the attention of a male….
Hearing her say she didn’t care what people thought of him sends a message that she herself didn’t care!
She took the risk, he was just doing what monsters do..
If you know a dog bites, don’t put your hand in front of it..
Sad for her, her family, friends and students.
It’s extremely hard to have any compassion or sadness for this lady. You do not mess at all with people talking and acting like this.
I agree. She had to be crazy as well, I would have been terrified of him not want to date!
I went to school with this guy! It shocked me because he was quiet and shy like no one would of thought he could be capable of this
Corrr i mean she certainly is a victim but her silliness could have gotten others killed.
Exactly, I just got to the part where she said she “enjoyed his dark side”. This is more than just a fixer/goodness of their heart story. Would these “fixers” help ugly fat guys out of the goodness of their heart? She was attracted to this guy, period. Major bad boy vibes. And i think you’re right, she could have gotten someone else hurt doing whatever this creep manipulated her to do. Scary on all counts. A shame she had to pay with her life. Hopefully this will be a cautionary tale for others.
Right!
This hit very close to home I live in flagstaff and remember when this hit the news.
So scary to live in the area these crimes happen in 💔
How did she not see that Charlie was a lost cause?
And I call bullshit on the "oh I wanted to fix Charlie shit" nah Charlie was actually pretty good looking so she loved the sex which blinded her from reality . Wake up ladies wake up . Not all jailbirds are your killers lol
Absolutely. She had more in mind than helping him and he had way more in mind than caring about her.
@@jessrouse8475 true but... This one was in jail for violent crime AND *she* (not his family, not his friends) had to be the one to bail him out (and took out a mortgage on her house to pay it.) No, jail birds aren't all killers, most of it is drugs and theft, but in this instance it was like... Is sleeping with him worth $30 K or whatever? Most men do it for free.
I’m sorry at 44, not that she deserves what happened to her at all, but hell she really should have had the life wisdom/maturity to know that you can’t “fix” your partner. I expect a woman in her early 20 to 30’s to have the naive faith of “changing” someone but in your 40’s to do this means there are more selfish reasons
This is a terribly sad case. I worked in LE in the Mayer area when this occurred. I will always remember!!! ❤
I listen to your videos while watching my kids at work.
It always ends badly ladies when u date with low self-esteem.
Great way to spend Tues Night
Agreed!
What in the world was she doing with him. So sad. This one had me shaking my head the whole time. Why did he ever deserve a plea deal
Why beg and beg her to get out of jail but as soon as he gets out he does everything possible to get back in? Oh right, he's crazy
I need to remember this case the next time I see someone’s potential more than someone’s integrity and character… scary
Please don't downplay her responsibility in this situation. We must all own our choices.
Rachel you are so beautiful 😍
Also you are the best at telling these stories 😊
My prayers go out to Catherine's family and Friends
"Are you that dangerous?"
Come on Catheryn, he pulled a 🔫 on his own sister and carjacked her. Of course he's "that dangerous!" I try not to "victim blame," but this lady ignored very strong warning signs....
This is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. Ironically this is how my dad died.
Tragic case. Real monsters that live among us...
Binging your vids today. My day off😊
You should be proud of yourself for your ability to meet others where THEY are in order to have some understanding. I assume people who victim blame feel better about themselves by doing so, but we don't learn anything from that. We're all humans just doing the best we can and judging someone for having a helping heart is just disgusting. How she died is not how she lived. Love to all who knew and loved this beautiful lady💖✨
This is so sad and the level of loneliness and desperation was off the charts. It should have never happened, but come now. There were plenty of less attractive men closer to her age, with fewer issues that she could have tried to help. Such serious delusion to think that man wanted her for anything beyond using her.
That guy was a nut, a con man, and evil too. He sounds like he was either on meth or had something like schizophrenia, maybe even a combination of both drug use, and a mental disorder. The incident with his sister driving him in her van was what first made me think that.
He really should not have even been given bail. Also there should be some limitations on who is allowed to bail a violent criminal out, IMO. There needs to be more oversight.
Edit: I would not have bailed someone out who was talking about killing dogs, and babies. She had a dog even, and he was saying sh*t like that, and it didn't make her uncomfortable!? WTF was she thinking? SMH. She was like a lamb to the slaughter.
Cathryn seems very immature for her age in the phone calls. After he tells her the most fake "I love you" in history at 10:19, it's especially tragic when she tells him: "we'll let people think whatever they need to think..."(she knew what she was doing was counter culture and she seems to childishly revel in doing something rebellious and dangerous - she even asks him "are you that dangerous?"). Clearly, she should have listened more to her family and friends, the people that actually loved and cared for her. He was using her with the subtlety of a child , and for some reason, she was ok with that. I disagree with the world view that victims have no responsibility in their demise: a) her lust most likely clouded her good judgement (just like men that foolishly lose their money and sometimes marriage to younger women abroad) and b) she ignored the reasons why society vehemently discourage women that date repeat drug addicted violent felons: it is because society is aware that such women are placing themselves in harms way and society wishes to help these women make better choices through shared moral societal pressures. We should not humiliate victims, but we should also not pretend that their tragic end was not at all foreseeable by outsiders or the victim themselves.
Harry’s scalp scrub is AMAZING too!
I totally agree with you about how and why he killed her. She started just having a logical talk about a game plan to keep him on track and he saw this as controlling him and he snapped. He wanted guns and drugs immediately so he killed her to get them.
Thank you fabulous , thank you kindly for the educational story
Such a sad case. Rest In Peace Cathryn ❤️
I am sorry but she had to be smarter. She sounded like a 15 year old girl on that jail phone call. "You aren't dangerous, tee hee" . It was NOT her fault, but C'mon... C'mon...
Life lesson: Only get involved in a relationship with people who already have their life together. It’s not our job to fix people. Why anyone would want to be in a relationship with a criminal and drug addict, etc, I will never understand. It’s not her fault that she was murdered, of course, but there are things we can do as women to protect ourselves. Women should learn from this.
Let be real here, she is an desperate older woman, she found him hot and his looks cloud her judgment. So telling people that she wants to fix him sound a lot better than oh I found him hot