The whole thing with the cables loosening when turning is that you need to make sure the distance between the mounts is equal on both the front and rear.
I believe the difference in cable slack when turned vs straight is likely from the mounting points on the bottom of the handle bars tube being spaced different than on the fork mounting points. That and/or the angles of the 2 aren’t parallel
CHAIN DRIVE STEERING !!!!!... Sprocket on the bottom of the steering column to sprocket on the top of the forks... You can do it man I have faith in you brother!👊
Hey brother you could also widen the mounting points for your steering cables to increase the leverage and make steering easier. And even easier when you go back to rods lol!
@@danielauen7790 Thanks man yah in a situation like that steel cables just have too much stretch so the steering is going to kind of go where it wants to
not widen but opposite - shorten , narrower mounting points on the steering column. That's the case that leads to leverage increasing and steering will be much accurate too. And RODS LOL indeed , that cable idea is crap .
Yeah I noticed that also I was waiting for it to hit any second lol Glad it didn't hopefully they will put a skid pan or something to stop it from smashing the oil pan ✌️
Yep, definitely swap the 2 cables for 2 pushrods. Way Safer!!! Looks similar and just way Safer! If one cable fails (not if, when) it's cooked. Steering will hard lock to one side. Totally devastating. Especially considering how crazy fast this thing will be. Also you could change the push rod pin points to change the leverage, easier, or harder steering. Big props. Best show on UA-cam. You guys are absolute wizards at your crafts!!!!
Awesome content ad always! Couple of steering issues... the attachment points of all of the cables need to be the same distance from their corresponding pivots for consistent steering feel/ cable tension. Move the attachment points away from the pivots for lighter steering. Add cable tensioners for slack adjustment.
what you need is a hydraulic steering setup. they work tremendously and they can give the trike a "ghost steering" look by running the lines through the frame tubing.
Old school outboard boats use cable steering, a drum on the steering wheel and pulleys on the motor. Use springs between end of cable and anchor to keep uniform tension. I know you need to keep your ratio closer to 1 to1, but maybe it’s possible to eliminate some of the tension you’re getting when centered by using springs. Just a thought.
Drone Fail! I love how real and raw you guys are and not scared to show the whoops and oh-shits that everyday brings us. Been a Grind Hard Junkie since Cindys first build!!! Thank you guys for the Great Content!
For the quadcopter. Conformal coating to waterproof. Get the brush on kind. I coat the FC the vtx and the speed controllers. The great part is you can solder right through it like its not even there.
First few seconds of the video: "This is frightening. I don't know why." Me: YOU DON'T KNOW?! Seriously though I love these crazy builds. Keep it up you yahoos.
You could use 1 long cord to go from one side of the handle bar, up to the head tube and back to the other side of the handle bar leverage point, then put a bracket( one piece of a pulley cut in to thirds) in the middle of the cord and then crimp two stops on either side of the bracket. Sorry if that doesn't make sense.
You need the steering yoke cable mount width to be exactly the same as the fork if you want to eliminate the slack issue off-center. That is from the pivot so even just the angle from the floor being different will throw it off. Match angle AND width and it will always be 100%.
It totally looks like a bent TV antenna for the frame! Not saying it looks bad at all, it looks freaking awesome. Completely a Grind Hard Plumbing build!
Those drone shots are just sick, I mean the trike is too but that's what most people come here for. I don't think the cinematography gets the props it deserves.
Adding stiff spring loaded tensioner's to those cables will help alot. If you can constantly keep pressure on those cables to keep up the slack they might work even better
ive done this type of build before. ive tried cables, ive tried a gear with a chain but the best fix was to use two solid tubed rods,,, just like tie rods . try this and youll derinately loose the sloppieness from the stretching of the cable
The only problem I am starting to see is the front wheel. Might just be me but it seems quite weak and when turning at speeds it might buckle with all the weight and the trike trying to keep going forward rather than turning.
If you feed the cable through a flexible conduit it will help with the strength and ease of use. Use a good grease. The terminal end fittings should have tensile strength of roughly 250 kg per square centimeter. With these modifications you could safely steer with one cable, two is better. If you find some Harley Davidson clutch cables (or equivalent) it will exceed all of those requirements. Just make sure one end has a threaded adjustment.
Easiest way to fix the steering slack when turned is to make sure the crank arm on the steering and the front forks are absolutely identical. I.e. same crank arm length, and angle between the three pivots. Frankly I'd use the tripple clamps from the front forks as a template for drilling the steering crank arm.
The best thing about u guys is that u always come up with something new and different and u aren’t afraid to try new things! Very inspiring! Keep it up!
Hey guys love the build if you want to make the steering easier move the connection point on the triple tree the point where it hooks to the front forks thanks and have a great day
You could move the cable mount points on triple clamp out a few inches to provide more leverage and make steering easier. It would require more throw on the handle bars to get full crank though
pushrods instead of cables and mounted farther out, like on the ends of the levers and the shockmounts will give you much more leverage on the steering
Make the mounting points for the cables on the forks wider. Mount a bar on top of the forks to extend the mounting points of the cables outward. And it will be easier to move. Push pull system on a airplane.
If your looking to add a bit more weight add a roll bar loop to protect the rider in a roll over . with it being so low and wide it's not likely to roll but it never hurt to be safe
Cable steering is ok but ion full lock the change to the dimension between the cables will make it really heavy and wobbly, you should take a leaf out of the old speed boat book and use cable drums on both ends which keeps the cables in the same position relatively and means the steering force required and effort on the forks is constant.😁
Observation: Not sure you realize it, but your triple back-bone trellis frame only has braces from center to each side, and nothing across the left to the right one underneath, so it would be possible for them to "Spread" and then the frame twist I think without at least two or three going from the right tube to the left to tie-together the triangle? Then it would be SUPER strong like a Ham Radio antenna tower kinda? The Geometry on the steering will need to have both widths of where the cable bolts START and END the same, and the Steering HEAD angle has to be the same as the Steering Neck angle on the forks- or else it will always go, tight/loose when turning.............
You should bend that top steering mount bar as well! It does not look right just going straight off the back bone! I would also imagine a bunch of speed wobble with that cable steering set up! If you look at the playback in slow Mo it’s going back-and-forth really quick. Maybe consider a steering stabilizer like a street bike
And that cracked out tree branch really did sneak up on you Brother. Couldn't be seen till it was getting hit. Hope the drone is alright. You rock at flying it...maybe look into drone racing. :)
also to fix the geometry of the cable. drawing a line between the two cable pivots center to center(on the front part) the line should run trough the centre axis of rotation of the headset
On the forks put the cable underneath and it’s cuz the fork tube on the front is a different angle then the handle bars and try to get the cable As parallel as you can
2 pushrod setup would be better than cable because it won't stretch or be sloppy for steering rigidity is king and you need the cables to be mounted the same distance from centre of the steer tubes
The cable mounting points need to be furter out from the center and equal length at both fork and handlebar side. That should make the steering lighther. Cool build btw.
There use to be a trike in similar design in my town. It had the buick aluminum block v8. You sat way in the back and there was handle bars with 2 connecting rods that ran to the front forks.
Chrome chains in place of the cables for the steering would look badass Not knocking the cables I just think chains would look better and they would work the same way ✌️
nice work so far boys..have you considered extending your steer cable attachment points to ease the steering..i would think an inch or so either end will make things much easier..
I’ll bet a huge contributor to the steering difficulty is just the tension of the steering cables. Any tension at all will really tighten up/make the steering harder
What happens when you hit a bump, putting both rear springs into full stuff, then another bump hits just one rear wheel? Corkscrew roll. All the weight is right down the centerline like a riffled bullet. There is little weight outboard resisting roll moments. I'm loving this build. I'd like to see a corkscrew roll. Just... roll cage and harness. Weight above the driver will help resist roll, but encourage pitch on acceleration, bouncing the front end.
Awesome as usually ! Get some lighter tires and smaller diameter wheels in the back (more sidewall). I would think getting rid of some unsprung weight in the rear would help :) Regards from Norway
Widening the distance between the front cable mounts should increase your steering torque, at the expense of having to turn the handlebars further to make the same radius turn.
I believe you'd have better steering feel if you widen the lever points for the cables on the handlebar end. It looks like it's narrower than the points on the front suspension. Just a thought.
an aluminum or sheet metal aviator style seat with some dimple die holes would be so cool on this. Get a leather crafts person to make cover using some dark brown leather and just a bit of padding.
Or even electronic rams. Hooked to switched on the stem of the bars to trigger the rams. That want it will be power assisted steering. And would look bad ass.
Quick thought... What if you did a few small sections of steel tubing as sleeves for the cables? You won't see any sag in the cables when you turn also would look sweet
@@GrindHardPlumbingCo Is the center to center distance between the tie rod ends the same on the fork as on the handlebar bellcrank? Obviously they should be the same distance from the stem (pivot) on each end also. The fact that one cable gets loose when you turn makes me think they are moving in different arcs.
@@GrindHardPlumbingCo What about the angle between the handle bar and fork stems? If the arcs aren't in the same plane or parallel plane it might also cause one of the cable to get slack.
I would of gone hydraulic with the steering, mostly don't trust the cables. Like the idea of the cable steering, what could help is giving the cables some pulleys, that would reduce the amount of effort you would have to put into steering. LOVE THE LOOK!
Can you build like a bump stop and just weld it to the tubing close to where the cables mount underneath the actual handlebars just have like a steering Bump Stop So once you turn the handlebars to the point of the cables loosening the Bump Stop will stop it from rotating far enough for the cables to loosen I know that sounds kind of like backyard mechanic rigging situation but it could work
The amount of triangles on the frame is fitting for a rotary build
So true!
The drifting Dorito!
And it’s a trike, so it’s a triangle no matter what!
Triangles and triangles and rotory triangles.
This project's name: Pythagoras!
Triangles and triangles and rotory triangles.
This project's name: Pythagoras!
The whole thing with the cables loosening when turning is that you need to make sure the distance between the mounts is equal on both the front and rear.
and the rake of the head tube needs to match the rake of the steering tube. A change in that angle is going to change the tension on the cables
@@aaronsbarker that is correct too
I believe the difference in cable slack when turned vs straight is likely from the mounting points on the bottom of the handle bars tube being spaced different than on the fork mounting points. That and/or the angles of the 2 aren’t parallel
CHAIN DRIVE STEERING !!!!!... Sprocket on the bottom of the steering column to sprocket on the top of the forks... You can do it man I have faith in you brother!👊
This is a must!!
@@kloker0 Thought the same thing!!
Best method I could think of.
Hey brother you could also widen the mounting points for your steering cables to increase the leverage and make steering easier. And even easier when you go back to rods lol!
I love how you said "when you go back to rods" instead of "If".
@@danielauen7790 Thanks man yah in a situation like that steel cables just have too much stretch so the steering is going to kind of go where it wants to
@@600wheel 100% agree, it would be great for a show bike, but I have a feeling they plan on hammering this thing.
@@danielauen7790 oh yaa!! Treat it like all their other toys I don’t think the word gentle is in their vocabulary which I think is great
not widen but opposite - shorten , narrower mounting points on the steering column. That's the case that leads to leverage increasing and steering will be much accurate too. And RODS LOL indeed , that cable idea is crap .
Tensioner springs! Route the cables through a spring, one each cable an crimp them on with some Tension with your steering centered.
You guys are gonna wanna stiffen the front shocks. That oil pan came pretty close to the ground a couple times lol.
Yeah I noticed that also I was waiting for it to hit any second lol Glad it didn't hopefully they will put a skid pan or something to stop it from smashing the oil pan ✌️
for the steering you could use a motorbike chain with a sprocket at the handle bar and one on the fork
That would be cool too!
and the steering needs to be much more (8-12 inch) to the front
I'll give you guys an oil pan, your gunna need it lol.
These guys deserve like at least 1 mill views like this is absolutely insane.and difficult
Yep, definitely swap the 2 cables for 2 pushrods. Way Safer!!! Looks similar and just way Safer! If one cable fails (not if, when) it's cooked. Steering will hard lock to one side. Totally devastating. Especially considering how crazy fast this thing will be.
Also you could change the push rod pin points to change the leverage, easier, or harder steering.
Big props. Best show on UA-cam.
You guys are absolute wizards at your crafts!!!!
Awesome content ad always! Couple of steering issues... the attachment points of all of the cables need to be the same distance from their corresponding pivots for consistent steering feel/ cable tension. Move the attachment points away from the pivots for lighter steering. Add cable tensioners for slack adjustment.
A transaxle would really help with the weight distrubution. Really cool build!
what you need is a hydraulic steering setup. they work tremendously and they can give the trike a "ghost steering" look by running the lines through the frame tubing.
Hey thing to note if you hit a jump slow enough youll hit the oilpan immediately if you notice on camera on first test roll here.
Haha the drone crash was the best B Roll I’ve ever seen 👌🏼 much more engaging and interesting than others
the drone footage is sooo crisp
Old school outboard boats use cable steering, a drum on the steering wheel and pulleys on the motor. Use springs between end of cable and anchor to keep uniform tension. I know you need to keep your ratio closer to 1 to1, but maybe it’s possible to eliminate some of the tension you’re getting when centered by using springs. Just a thought.
Oh My God, you cut up the Colonel! My Favourite! Please, please put him back together,Please
They didn’t, it’s leftovers from the original parts before the rebuild and upgrades.
Colonel is safe! He’s my favorite too.
Drone Fail! I love how real and raw you guys are and not scared to show the whoops and oh-shits that everyday brings us. Been a Grind Hard Junkie since Cindys first build!!! Thank you guys for the Great Content!
For the quadcopter. Conformal coating to waterproof. Get the brush on kind. I coat the FC the vtx and the speed controllers. The great part is you can solder right through it like its not even there.
8:47.....the timing of the music starting in relation to the weld is just impeccable. 👏👏 well done, sir.
First few seconds of the video: "This is frightening. I don't know why."
Me: YOU DON'T KNOW?!
Seriously though I love these crazy builds. Keep it up you yahoos.
You could use 1 long cord to go from one side of the handle bar, up to the head tube and back to the other side of the handle bar leverage point, then put a bracket( one piece of a pulley cut in to thirds) in the middle of the cord and then crimp two stops on either side of the bracket. Sorry if that doesn't make sense.
You need the steering yoke cable mount width to be exactly the same as the fork if you want to eliminate the slack issue off-center. That is from the pivot so even just the angle from the floor being different will throw it off. Match angle AND width and it will always be 100%.
It totally looks like a bent TV antenna for the frame! Not saying it looks bad at all, it looks freaking awesome. Completely a Grind Hard Plumbing build!
This channel is by far the best as far as uniqueness and quality filming/editing!! Love it :)
Those drone shots are just sick, I mean the trike is too but that's what most people come here for. I don't think the cinematography gets the props it deserves.
Adding stiff spring loaded tensioner's to those cables will help alot. If you can constantly keep pressure on those cables to keep up the slack they might work even better
ive done this type of build before. ive tried cables, ive tried a gear with a chain but the best fix was to use two solid tubed rods,,, just like tie rods . try this and youll derinately loose the sloppieness from the stretching of the cable
The trike needs a rear, copilot seat - strictly for weight distribution testing purposes of course! Keep doing what you do!
Dron pilot’s skills are close to GOD!🤟 I remember first videos with fly cam- now it’s awesome! 👍
If you widen the cable link at the steering column it'll impart more force and be easier to steer.
Hi guys, it's Nathan from Utah here. Thanks again for the tubing bender! It's almost assembled and ready to start a new project!
The only problem I am starting to see is the front wheel. Might just be me but it seems quite weak and when turning at speeds it might buckle with all the weight and the trike trying to keep going forward rather than turning.
If you feed the cable through a flexible conduit it will help with the strength and ease of use. Use a good grease. The terminal end fittings should have tensile strength of roughly 250 kg per square centimeter. With these modifications you could safely steer with one cable, two is better. If you find some Harley Davidson clutch cables (or equivalent) it will exceed all of those requirements. Just make sure one end has a threaded adjustment.
Easiest way to fix the steering slack when turned is to make sure the crank arm on the steering and the front forks are absolutely identical. I.e. same crank arm length, and angle between the three pivots. Frankly I'd use the tripple clamps from the front forks as a template for drilling the steering crank arm.
Absolutely love the shape this thing is taking !!!
I absolutely love your drone clips. Especially when you hit a tree! 😆 Keep up the cool builds!
The best thing about u guys is that u always come up with something new and different and u aren’t afraid to try new things! Very inspiring! Keep it up!
The OEM cast iron header on the 13B is really heavy. You can save quite a bit of weight putting a tubular header on it.
We will for sure!
Hey guys love the build if you want to make the steering easier move the connection point on the triple tree the point where it hooks to the front forks thanks and have a great day
Put some kind of spring loaded dirt bike or pit bike chain tensioner on each side of the frame to keep tension on the steel cables while turning.
I'm not sure i would trust those cables but i gotta admit that they do look cool.
You could move the cable mount points on triple clamp out a few inches to provide more leverage and make steering easier. It would require more throw on the handle bars to get full crank though
Your steering cable slack is do to the offset of the rotating axis on the triple tree VS the zero offset at the controls.
You need a wider plate at the bottom of the steering shaft to make the steering easier and to have a proper ratio to the top yoke on the forks
pushrods instead of cables and mounted farther out, like on the ends of the levers and the shockmounts will give you much more leverage on the steering
Make the mounting points for the cables on the forks wider. Mount a bar on top of the forks to extend the mounting points of the cables outward. And it will be easier to move. Push pull system on a airplane.
along with having some of the best builds on the internet, you guys also have the best drone footage.
Maybe add a damper to the triple clamp..? resonance in those cables are going to lead to speed wobble.
If your looking to add a bit more weight add a roll bar loop to protect the rider in a roll over . with it being so low and wide it's not likely to roll but it never hurt to be safe
Cable steering is ok but ion full lock the change to the dimension between the cables will make it really heavy and wobbly, you should take a leaf out of the old speed boat book and use cable drums on both ends which keeps the cables in the same position relatively and means the steering force required and effort on the forks is constant.😁
"This is scary, I don't know why"
Everyone with eyeballs: we know why.......
Observation:
Not sure you realize it, but your triple back-bone trellis frame only has braces from center to each side, and nothing across the left to the right one underneath, so it would be possible for them to "Spread" and then the frame twist I think without at least two or three going from the right tube to the left to tie-together the triangle? Then it would be SUPER strong like a Ham Radio antenna tower kinda?
The Geometry on the steering will need to have both widths of where the cable bolts START and END the same, and the Steering HEAD angle has to be the same as the Steering Neck angle on the forks- or else it will always go, tight/loose when turning.............
Add a short but heave spring at the base of each cable under load when centered.
You should bend that top steering mount bar as well! It does not look right just going straight off the back bone! I would also imagine a bunch of speed wobble with that cable steering set up! If you look at the playback in slow Mo it’s going back-and-forth really quick. Maybe consider a steering stabilizer like a street bike
Always great when Sam comes along, great vibe with the Ethan & Sam. Amazing engineering Ethan love watching your builds.
You could use put gears on the handlebars and on the shocks and make it chain driven and add a tensioner
And that cracked out tree branch really did sneak up on you Brother. Couldn't be seen till it was getting hit. Hope the drone is alright. You rock at flying it...maybe look into drone racing. :)
Add a pulley tension setup for the steering cables that will help kinda of how a Bowflex works
Loving the Mad Max look of this build!
Love the new steering Frame changes. With the exception of the cables.
I love this thing. It is def the most death trap looking build you guys have done!!! Very mad max’esc
also to fix the geometry of the cable. drawing a line between the two cable pivots center to center(on the front part) the line should run trough the centre axis of rotation of the headset
I can’t remember what type of tubing you were using. Is that a chromoly? Or just DOM steel?
Never mind. It’s clearly not chromoly. Loved this episode! Hope that steering works out
did you know you can edit your original comment?
DOM is black, this looks like standard ERW.
@@uncrustable9923 I had no idea
@@Joshie2256 thanks for that input Joshua. Still learning the different material types
On the forks put the cable underneath and it’s cuz the fork tube on the front is a different angle then the handle bars and try to get the cable As parallel as you can
2 pushrod setup would be better than cable because it won't stretch or be sloppy for steering rigidity is king and you need the cables to be mounted the same distance from centre of the steer tubes
The cable mounting points need to be furter out from the center and equal length at both fork and handlebar side. That should make the steering lighther.
Cool build btw.
Great job....maybe rods in place of metal wire for steering....hope you get the back smoother....it might be just best for street or smooth dirt
There use to be a trike in similar design in my town. It had the buick aluminum block v8. You sat way in the back and there was handle bars with 2 connecting rods that ran to the front forks.
You have to push the mount points back on the fork to fix the cable problem
“Cool and ridiculous” the perfect way to describe all your builds😂
That steering looks wayyyy cooler now!
totally agree
All that triangulation in the frame is great, but unless you tie the bottom tubes together you have essentially made a large piece of angle iron.
Chrome chains in place of the cables for the steering would look badass Not knocking the cables I just think chains would look better and they would work the same way ✌️
nice work so far boys..have you considered extending your steer cable attachment points to ease the steering..i would think an inch or so either end will make things much easier..
I’ll bet a huge contributor to the steering difficulty is just the tension of the steering cables. Any tension at all will really tighten up/make the steering harder
What happens when you hit a bump, putting both rear springs into full stuff, then another bump hits just one rear wheel? Corkscrew roll. All the weight is right down the centerline like a riffled bullet. There is little weight outboard resisting roll moments. I'm loving this build. I'd like to see a corkscrew roll. Just... roll cage and harness. Weight above the driver will help resist roll, but encourage pitch on acceleration, bouncing the front end.
Awesome as usually ! Get some lighter tires and smaller diameter wheels in the back (more sidewall). I would think getting rid of some unsprung weight in the rear would help :) Regards from Norway
You guys are absolutely the kind of guys I wish my friends were lol
Widening the distance between the front cable mounts should increase your steering torque, at the expense of having to turn the handlebars further to make the same radius turn.
I just love the rear wheel is loose and only two lug nuts!
I feel like this is as close to a mechanical horse and chariot as you can get. great episode!
If you want the cable s to stay tight make the levers circels like the rudder of a boat.
I believe you'd have better steering feel if you widen the lever points for the cables on the handlebar end. It looks like it's narrower than the points on the front suspension. Just a thought.
an aluminum or sheet metal aviator style seat with some dimple die holes would be so cool on this. Get a leather crafts person to make cover using some dark brown leather and just a bit of padding.
I feel like the cable for steering is bad idea. Push-rods would be safer for better torque-loading on both sides.
Widening the point where the cable mounts to the triple clamp will help with the weight of the steering by giving more leverage.
Pivot points with chain garde scake bord wheels for cable steering
Or even electronic rams. Hooked to switched on the stem of the bars to trigger the rams. That want it will be power assisted steering. And would look bad ass.
Just in case as a back up have independent rear brakes so you can steer with your rear brakes if need be
You are going to want to swage some turnbuckles on those cables so you can tighten and adjust those cables when they stretch.
Quick thought... What if you did a few small sections of steel tubing as sleeves for the cables? You won't see any sag in the cables when you turn also would look sweet
im extremely excited for this one to start n run
I foresee death wobble at high speeds maybe low speed too with the cable setup.
Probably haha
@@GrindHardPlumbingCo Is the center to center distance between the tie rod ends the same on the fork as on the handlebar bellcrank? Obviously they should be the same distance from the stem (pivot) on each end also. The fact that one cable gets loose when you turn makes me think they are moving in different arcs.
@@Fix_It_Again_Tony Yes they are the same
@@GrindHardPlumbingCo What about the angle between the handle bar and fork stems? If the arcs aren't in the same plane or parallel plane it might also cause one of the cable to get slack.
Awesome I mentioned the cables idk if u considered it already or I had some influence but I think it’s sweet
Looks great u guys might want to put a oil pan and trans skid plat looked like oil pan was a little close to the rocks
I would of gone hydraulic with the steering, mostly don't trust the cables. Like the idea of the cable steering, what could help is giving the cables some pulleys, that would reduce the amount of effort you would have to put into steering. LOVE THE LOOK!
Can you build like a bump stop and just weld it to the tubing close to where the cables mount underneath the actual handlebars just have like a steering Bump Stop So once you turn the handlebars to the point of the cables loosening the Bump Stop will stop it from rotating far enough for the cables to loosen I know that sounds kind of like backyard mechanic rigging situation but it could work