To further elabaorate, Leffen/Syrox/Plup all use back instead of down, to drop from the ledge. Perhaps this is the superior technique. I never learned it, so I use this technique I explained in the video for down. Also, Hax$ tested exact values in the game, and it's actually 28.75-65.00% of the way down (Hax$ looked at game coding himself to find this out), but when you factor in the deadzone values added to it, it's about 15-50% if you don't factor in deadzones. So really you could press down less than 65% of the way down, and it'll still register as a regular fall instead of a fastfall, if you aren't frame perfect (frame perfect always has frame 1 be a regular fall, but it's good to have a backup plan of 1 frame leniency for consistency purposes).
I also recommend practicing with a controller that isn't as great at ledge dashing, to perfect your technique better (if you master it on a "worse" controller, it becomes much easier to do when you get a better controller. But going from a great controller to a worse one is more difficult, because your controller carried you and your technique probably wasn't actually as universally great. You get better practice by training with a controller that isn't as naturally good at it, in my experience).
thank you for the simple things that could potentially unlock the next step to good-players-on-rise .. I wish someone told me this when I started. much love!
I find it easier to use the particle effect from grabbing the ledge as a point of reference for when you actually grabbed the ledge and when you are able to let go.
Why would you guys want this vid shorter? We got 12 minutes of yason talking about 7 frames, control stick %s and SDs. This is high quality entertainment and education.
Thanks Jason! Little things like Fox's feet are such small details that I never noticed. Things like this are why I'm glad you share your opinion. KOTU the goat ❤
Wow that’s actually so crazy. I was practicing ledgedashes on uncle punch but for some reason I was really only able to get perfect 1 frame of cliffwait when i did the ledgehop planking m2k mentioned and then ledgedash. I got the perfect cliffwait more consistently than normally ledgedashing as soon as it loads or fire bird ledgestalling->ledgedashing. He said the ledgehop stall lets you get off the ledge a frame quicker and it’s actually clearly impactful.
This is incredibly helpful, because I didn't know about the 7 frame thing before. Also, M2K should be bigger, with his video being about to the edge of the 4:3 box like the hand-cam, since Fox wasn't going to get past that anyways, and hand-cam should always be on. Just what I think. Great video, otherwise. ^_^
Theres an angle that exists where you actually bring the stick diagonally down and towards the stage and you do a slow drop. imo this is the most optimal because you can hold one angle for both the drop and the wavedash on stage
@@somekindofnice3871 3 years late but even 2 frames is noticeable. the difference between 3 frame jumpsquat characters and 5 frame jumpsquat characters for wavedashing is very noticeable
This is honestly so cool, my friends make fun of me for being a “nerd” for knowing stuff about smash. Like exact frame data. But this is awesome. I just wanna know everything
I still like jumping off the ledge like that. It would be silly if that wasn't in there. It's a cool animation to look at and gives the game personality.
Me: Hey mate I’m about to hit a ledgedash. Opponent: oh cool, what’re you gonna do in the 7 frame startup? Me: don’t know actually, maybe eat a sandwich, drink some milk.
one thing I like to use in 20xx is cliffcatch and cliffwait as display overlay colors. You can't act during cliffcatch so if that's say red and cliffwait is white all you want to see while practicing is red.
Because if you do it in grand finals with everyone watching then you're probably going to win the tournament..for your opponent. AKA it's often suicide against top players
This just fixed my ledge dashing inconsistency entirely! My problem was fast falling and not being frame perfect and I never even thought to just not fast fall lol
Grab ledge, put your control down for a tenth of a second, pick it back up, by this point you've done it too slow and lost your invincibility, do a Mang0dash.👌
Yo M2K, Leffen said that there's no good reason to use Down... but I like down because it's the same on both sides... overall... if you press down and roll the stick inward before you press jump you're guaranteed to get either your ledgedash or a regular ledge getup which isn't so bad compared to jumping.
M2K, can you and Plup and Salem do a video where you guys analyze super smash flash 2 beta as a competitive game, and compare the game in general to ssbm, ssbb, and ssb4, and compare characters to how they are in the other smash games as well? I've played ssf2 for years and am just starting to get into ssbm and ssb4 and I think that it would be very interesting to hear your opinions on the topics above. A general first impression tier list would be cool too. Good luck at smash con!
Dude, 7 frames is way more than you think. 7 frames of unnecessary landing lag can get you killed. Hell, in order to do foxes shorthop you need to press jump and release in 4 frames, and good players do that with nearly 100% consistency
I know tilting the stick away is what Leffen does (he's mentioned it in his stream) and he has the best ledge dashes in the game. But that doesn't really make it the best way, it's just what is best for him.
Jon Lewis its not that, that channal isnt good, its just that m2k has won more tourneys then my dad has told me he loves me. So his advice holds more wight
Not ideal since you want to input the waveland asap, and moving your thumb to the opposite end just sets back your movement. Since you're cancelling your drop with a jump, fast falling isn't hurting you at all.
I usually let go of ledge by going backwards then i air dodgerewlly fast like 99% forth to get as little SDs possible because i really hate losing a stock like this.
To further elabaorate, Leffen/Syrox/Plup all use back instead of down, to drop from the ledge. Perhaps this is the superior technique. I never learned it, so I use this technique I explained in the video for down.
Also, Hax$ tested exact values in the game, and it's actually 28.75-65.00% of the way down (Hax$ looked at game coding himself to find this out), but when you factor in the deadzone values added to it, it's about 15-50% if you don't factor in deadzones. So really you could press down less than 65% of the way down, and it'll still register as a regular fall instead of a fastfall, if you aren't frame perfect (frame perfect always has frame 1 be a regular fall, but it's good to have a backup plan of 1 frame leniency for consistency purposes).
Also I just updated the description with annotation notes and timestamp links
I also recommend practicing with a controller that isn't as great at ledge dashing, to perfect your technique better (if you master it on a "worse" controller, it becomes much easier to do when you get a better controller. But going from a great controller to a worse one is more difficult, because your controller carried you and your technique probably wasn't actually as universally great. You get better practice by training with a controller that isn't as naturally good at it, in my experience).
Thanks bro! These tutorials mean a lot to newbs like me.
When M2K gets less likes on his own channel xD Pin this comment so people can see it!
lolthxm2k
"Put your controller down for 7 frames."
It'll still be in the air if you let go of it
M2k talkin about 7 frames like it's an eternity
SpaceCows2997 it's important to take into account
SpaceCows2997 It is though. That's an entire Bowser jump-squat. You could find love, get married, and start a family in that amount of time.
in comparison, this video is barely 1,5 frame.
SpaceCows2997 I give you the new Pannenkoek!
Borp
Miles Quickster his brother is the new him?
Thanks, Jason. I now put my controller down for less than an 8th of a second every time I ledge dash.
SiMpLe SoLuTiOn!
good job choosing the closest unit fraction
just take a sip of coffee while waiting
I'm glad he said ''not literally'' because I was trying to drop and pick up my controller in 1/10th of a second.
Literally improved my ledge dashes from like 10% to 75%... Like wtf...
Actually, Thank you, M2K
Go get a cup of tea in those 7 frames
Max Mustermann Open up TurboTax during those 7 frames
this was really helpful
I found a wild omni in the wild
Yo omni
Typical check mark saying the most boring short message. We get it, you have a check mark.
@@zogbogbean2464 bro what's your problem. He is just saying its helpful since he plays melee and it helped him
woah hi
Great vid m2k. This will for sure help out many players
"Pretty much put your controller down for seven frames..." I love M2K, this is why he's my favorite smasher!
Is this what it means to like someone so much you'd watch a 12 minute video about ledge dashing in a game you don't even play? :O
Just by watching this video, my ledgedashes have improved 15% to 50%, that's not an exact number, I'm just ballparkin it on my head. Thanks Jason
M2K is literally a teacher, should be payed to do this!
this literally helped so much, thank you M2K you're my hero
thank you for the simple things that could potentially unlock the next step to good-players-on-rise .. I wish someone told me this when I started. much love!
Thanks Jason, you're looking hella cute today
i would push m2k's stick down 40% of the way after 7 frames Kreygasm
Spank me daddy PPMDKreygasm
Kreygasm
I find it easier to use the particle effect from grabbing the ledge as a point of reference for when you actually grabbed the ledge and when you are able to let go.
thank u. from this day forward i will now wait exactly 7 frames every time i grab the ledge
thanks so much m2k it's great to see very prominent figures in the community still making little tutorial videos like this just like back in the day
Glad to see M2K stepping up the UA-cam/tutorial game
Why would you guys want this vid shorter? We got 12 minutes of yason talking about 7 frames, control stick %s and SDs. This is high quality entertainment and education.
M2K is a great teacher, actually.
Mew2King is much better at explaining things than I thought he would be. Very good content and I look forward to more! :)
7 frame thing actually explains allot, ty Jason.
Thanks so much M2K! I thought I was unable to do this until I saw your video!
this man the most goated pauser of all time
Thanks Jason! Little things like Fox's feet are such small details that I never noticed. Things like this are why I'm glad you share your opinion. KOTU the goat ❤
You are an excellent teacher imo
Wow that’s actually so crazy. I was practicing ledgedashes on uncle punch but for some reason I was really only able to get perfect 1 frame of cliffwait when i did the ledgehop planking m2k mentioned and then ledgedash. I got the perfect cliffwait more consistently than normally ledgedashing as soon as it loads or fire bird ledgestalling->ledgedashing. He said the ledgehop stall lets you get off the ledge a frame quicker and it’s actually clearly impactful.
I like m2k so much more after watching some compilations of him.
If only M2K had this stream/video tech in his come up days.
great tutorial for the low level competitive players trying to climb to that mid level
Thanks M2K this was super helpful!
Instead of 7 frames, Link only has 3 frames to wait before an input.
king of frame perfect pauses
This is incredibly helpful, because I didn't know about the 7 frame thing before.
Also, M2K should be bigger, with his video being about to the edge of the 4:3 box like the hand-cam, since Fox wasn't going to get past that anyways, and hand-cam should always be on. Just what I think. Great video, otherwise. ^_^
Thanks jason. I used to do tournament winners like 20 percent of the time. Now I can almost do it frame perfect every time
this is great m2k, please make more videos, especially analysis videos!
Thanks Jason! I didn't know that tid bit information. Now I will be able to help others too, instead of just helping by trial and error:D
Theres an angle that exists where you actually bring the stick diagonally down and towards the stage and you do a slow drop.
imo this is the most optimal because you can hold one angle for both the drop and the wavedash on stage
*reads description*
"don't actually put ur controller down".
i thought u were a god,M2K?
M2K talking about 7 frames like it's the norm. How fast do M2K's mind comprehend time?
R1gBoN3Gaming Its already common knowledge that m2k perceives time in frames. Get with the times smh
R1gBoN3Gaming 7 frames is very noticeable, it may not sound like it but go mess around on the ledge with this in mind and you will definitely feel it
Some Kind of Nice M2K's been on the ledge for a majority of his career. Somehow, it's not surprising that he knows about that 7 frame window.
Apparently M2K is an English 18th century vampire with an evil spirit with high precision and reaction? That explains a lot.
@@somekindofnice3871 3 years late but even 2 frames is noticeable. the difference between 3 frame jumpsquat characters and 5 frame jumpsquat characters for wavedashing is very noticeable
M2K - Fountain of Knowledge
Thanks bud, great vid. Helped me figure out what I was doing wrong this whole time.
This is honestly so cool, my friends make fun of me for being a “nerd” for knowing stuff about smash. Like exact frame data. But this is awesome. I just wanna know everything
This is a fantastic video. Thanks Mew2King!
As soon as I finished this video my phone rang from an unknown number, I picked it up and heard a voice whisper.. “7 frames”
I still like jumping off the ledge like that. It would be silly if that wasn't in there. It's a cool animation to look at and gives the game personality.
Teach2King
Me: Hey mate I’m about to hit a ledgedash.
Opponent: oh cool, what’re you gonna do in the 7 frame startup?
Me: don’t know actually, maybe eat a sandwich, drink some milk.
I'm really happy this video was 12 minutes long, it could have been 3 or 4.
The new meme so a lot of people have been struggling
The melee scene doesn't force memes as much as the Smash 4 scene...
pls use 20xx and the frame by frame advance feature next time you make a video like this m2k
Athesies He likes it old school
Athesies he even have frame perfect pauses this is perfect the way it is
Jason Lobo no human is frame perfect enough to refuse the hack pack master race! m2k isnt even in this video
He didn't have it when he learned these things.
m2k's method is like doing math off your own skill, as opposed to using a calculator
This was very useful M2k thank you
After watching this video, I am now a top smash melee player
The king of rowlets
one thing I like to use in 20xx is cliffcatch and cliffwait as display overlay colors. You can't act during cliffcatch so if that's say red and cliffwait is white all you want to see while practicing is red.
Great stuff!! Sorry my internet sucks lol. Thanks again!
Its good to know that m2k ALSO jumps with X.
Mew2King is my favourite Melee Player.
(Armada voice) Dammit, Jason
I know he's being serious but I want to laugh so bad. He's hilarious without trying
1:07 lolm2k
Knowledge from the robot
Why is a ledge jump called a tournament winner?
Because you are extremely vulnerable during it, so more then likely your opponent is going to take the stock.
Because if you do it in grand finals with everyone watching then you're probably going to win the tournament..for your opponent. AKA it's often suicide against top players
because it makes your opponent win the tournament :P
less sarcastically, it is very easily punished and will result in you losing a stock.
watch the last stock of Evo 2016
Carson Henley because it's the easiest thing to punish meaning you'll lose when doing it. It's a sarcastic name
Wonder if leffen is watching lmao
He's probably making his own video as we speak
that would actually be cool
Dope tutorial Yayson.
I've been fast falling for a ledge dash my whole life. Holy fuck, no wonder I've SD'd so many times
armada lost evo 2016 because he didnt wait those 7 frames
the KIINGG!! THANKS King!!! great vid/s!!
This just fixed my ledge dashing inconsistency entirely! My problem was fast falling and not being frame perfect and I never even thought to just not fast fall lol
I too enjoy putting down my controller for less than a tenth of a second and picking it back up.
god i love m2k
Thanks for this!
Grab ledge, put your control down for a tenth of a second, pick it back up, by this point you've done it too slow and lost your invincibility, do a Mang0dash.👌
More of these videos, please. We're not cavemen; most of us have a good amount of melee knowledge, so we'll know what you're talking about :p
What if I press L for wave dashing 😮
Yo M2K, Leffen said that there's no good reason to use Down... but I like down because it's the same on both sides... overall... if you press down and roll the stick inward before you press jump you're guaranteed to get either your ledgedash or a regular ledge getup which isn't so bad compared to jumping.
Thanks Mew2King
M2K, can you and Plup and Salem do a video where you guys analyze super smash flash 2 beta as a competitive game, and compare the game in general to ssbm, ssbb, and ssb4, and compare characters to how they are in the other smash games as well? I've played ssf2 for years and am just starting to get into ssbm and ssb4 and I think that it would be very interesting to hear your opinions on the topics above. A general first impression tier list would be cool too. Good luck at smash con!
Its a pretty interesting idea actually
Why would I ledge dash when I can just stay on the ledge
That's the Hax$ logic for you XD
M2K saying wait 7 frames like he can see them
Dude, 7 frames is way more than you think. 7 frames of unnecessary landing lag can get you killed. Hell, in order to do foxes shorthop you need to press jump and release in 4 frames, and good players do that with nearly 100% consistency
yea but my nigga talkin like he lives life frame-by-frame or some shit
Bro I didn't even think of the proper way to ledge dash. I've been doing it with the analog stick alone this whole time. No x button
but does it cover roll to the right...?
Why don't you just tilt the stick to the side not to fast fall?
It's slower since you have to go all the way across the stick's range
But I seems more reliable that way and you lose 2 frames max which should not make a difference considering the possible frame timing
Philip Mangiovillano can also lead to momentum away from the stage. Not a good idea, but do whatever is consistent for you
Philip Mangiovillano you can do it but it's not optimal
I know tilting the stick away is what Leffen does (he's mentioned it in his stream) and he has the best ledge dashes in the game. But that doesn't really make it the best way, it's just what is best for him.
I'm ssbm, the first 7 frames is basically an eternity
All i can think about now is about those 7 frames
You2beKing PogChamp
Thank God I'm frame perfect
ledge camping tutorial for mmarth coming soon?
Thanks M2K. I wanna learn this game but I don't know where to look up information look this.
Jon Lewis its not that, that channal isnt good, its just that m2k has won more tourneys then my dad has told me he loves me. So his advice holds more wight
Random1567 ask people while playing them, they know most important things. When not playing look up random tutorial videos, especially ssbm tuts
Juan Esquivel That channel is pretty good. Why don't you think so?
beginners should know that you can drop from ledge with c stick if you like clawing
My favorite smash bros player ^_^
I press down on the c-stick to let go of edge is that bad?
Wouldn't pressing back instead of down be better since you don't have to worry about fast fall?
Not ideal since you want to input the waveland asap, and moving your thumb to the opposite end just sets back your movement. Since you're cancelling your drop with a jump, fast falling isn't hurting you at all.
I dont understand why you dont use 20XX, you can manually go frame by frame instead of pause buffering.
Thanks m2k!
I don't agree that tournament winner shouldn't be in the game at all. Theres a few characters like ganon and puff that can use it effectively.
I usually let go of ledge by going backwards then i air dodgerewlly fast like 99% forth to get as little SDs possible because i really hate losing a stock like this.