As a player who doesnt (currently) have anyone to play with and wants to get more technical I REALLY appreciate this video. I may not be a fox main but this video really helped me realize what I need to work on.
Thanks! I'm glad it got you thinking, that's really my goal after all. There's so much potential for every character in Melee but mental blocks are a huge struggle for pretty much everyone, and that really limits potential improvement.
P.S.: At the end of the video I mentioned a way to support me. I think you can still use that, but I'll likely be opening a Patreon in the near future which you can get rewards for your support, if you'd be more interested in that. Regardless though, thanks for being here and watching! I think I'm going to slowly turn this into a series, so stay tuned if you're interested in more
For any higher level players wanting some more stuff to chew on, do dash JC shine, wavedash backwards, then dashback repeat. It's a really short and concise action, but I suggest keeping it between 30 secs and a minute, since it's HARD on your hands. Especially if you're good at it, and able to do it fast.
Great video as always Remix. I like the idea of practicing waveshine dash timing as well as dash backs. Just one thing: I want to try to convince you that platform dashing on Dreamland is NOT worth going for. It requires frame perfect execution on two inputs and can be heavily punished if messed up. Ledge dash is better from a risk reward standpoint even if they expect it.
Actually yeah you're right. Now that I think about it going to the platform on Dream Land is probably significantly worse than a ledge dash. You could just cut this from the routine, or allocate that 1 minute of time elsewhere, where you think you need it.
Hey, great video! I'd definitely recommend doing the waveshine stuff and followup work on cpus in unclepunch as well, you can set them to DI certain ways too.
If you're having trouble keeping track of the timing for each task, I definitely recommend using an interval timer. I specifically used the app simply titled "Interval Timer" by Alysha Kwok on the Apple App Store. Also, just want to note that perhaps practicing dash back isn't useful nowadays with UCF being fairly standardized (which makes dash back consistent on all controllers).
Right. If you think it's important enough to include here, you can add it in, but personally I leave it for my fox/falco practice routine where I can devote more time to it.
I want to add shffl, ariel (diff momentum) jc grab wavedash out of tight dash dance. you want to be able to do anything out of dash dance on command and also double shine nair or grab
Love the routine. Can you make one for falco too. I've watched SSBM Tutorials and The Falco Trials, but this is still (by far) the best and I would like to know wha falco tech skill is best to rehearse
start with just dashdance and just wavedash separately. although it’s for a different character, i think pewpewu has the best warm up video when it comes to grounded movement. also shine grab is not hard it should be practiced after a sh nair. also green color overlay on standup is a crucial tool for fox practice. practicing frame perfect shines or dashes after airiels on shield or for practicing drill grab
Quick question re: the warmup, should you return the control stick to neutral after the dash input before wavedashing, or just roll the stick to the wavedash position?
I'd say it's mainly personal preference. I think releasing it each time may be slightly more optimal with enough practice but it's very minimal so I'd just recommend doing it the way you're comfortable.
What kinds of things would you suggest falco player practice? Currently I'm 1 month into playing and I'm very comfortable with pillar combos and building confidence on platform movement. Right now my biggest weakness is extending combos on platforms
I would probably spend at least 3 minutes, 1 minute on each of different variations on shine > waveland. I'm not too much of a Falco player, but being able to get onto a platform after any shine that's below one seems really helpful. I'd probably also work on reverse up tilts, as laser > reverse up tilt seems really powerful if someone jumps over your laser to approach. I'd also work on tightening up timing for laser approaches, so that something like laser > shine (assuming you're in range) has no chance of them punishing you after the laser, setting up for free shield pressure. OOS waveshine seems like it would be a prime target to practice as well, since you get so much damage off of a shine, and shine OOS is a very fast option. And of course a lot of the same options as Fox in this video, like wavedash, shield pressure, retreating lasers, etc. Who knows, maybe I'll eventually make one of these for Falco and some other characters too. If anyone's interested, let me know. I have tons of other videos planned, so who knows, but I'm sure I'd be able to get to it eventually.
What inputs do you use for all these techniques? For example, I do up smash oos with up on analog and up on cstick. Also I jc grab with y+z and do running upsmash with up analog and up cstick
That's an entire discussion in and of itself. Personally, I use Javi claw, and I use X + c stick for JC usmash, both OOS and out of run. For JC grab i use Y + Z. Eventually I'm going to make a few related videos regarding input methods in melee, and this will be one of the topics covered.
+karMa I'll try to get around to making one eventually. A couple people asked about Falco and I gave a couple examples, so you can check that out. There's probably some stuff on Falco at SSBM Tutorials that could help too so look that up if you're interested
Heyo Remix, great vid. I just have a couple questions. Are you a good melee player in tournament? You have a lot of great knowledge and tech but how are you in competitive? Do you have any notable wins?
+NA Hoboss I'm decent but not that great. I'm honestly still kinda new to Fox which is my main now. I mained Luigi for a long time before. I've never won anything with more than 32 entrants, but I'm working towards it. Steadily improving.
Hello ! First of all thanks for your channel, I love it. I''ve been playing for two year, but I currently lives in an area were NO ONE plays smash(nearest weekly is a 3h30 drive...) so it's hard staying motivated to play...But I'm going to try and have a steady practice regimen to get back into it. With that said, since I intend to learn everything back from the bascis(to get rid of bad habits) would you say it's worth it to switch to Claw style ?
+Brendan2981 Yep, I'd highly recommend some sort of claw grip if you play Fox. You don't have to stay claw the whole time though. A lot of players only switch to it when they need it. There's a few variations, so just go with whichever one is the most comfortable for you. I'm going to eventually make a video on the different controller grips people use, but probably not until after Big House, a couple weeks from now. Living far from people is rough but if you get some good internet, netplay can be really good. I'd highly recommend checking that out as both solo practice and practice against other players are important to getting better st melee.
Okay, I think I'll try it for a while ! Yeah I use netplay a lot, but I miss having real life "training partner" to discuss the game and improve with : o) I'm trying to start the melee community here but it'll be a long time before we have a solid base of player : p
I've been fiddling with claw for a few hours now(first time really trying it) and it's not as difficult as I thought. I can already shffl pretty consistently, and my wavedash are still clunky(used to WD with R) but it's comming along But oh god, all the shine stuff. It feels so great. Throwing out aerials seamlessly out of jump is also great. (I think I use more of a Javi grip tho. Middle finger is Y, index does A/B and thumb is always resting on the C stick. Ring finger for Z)
hey remix. thanks so much for this video! really well put together routine, gonna consider implementing into my own practice soon. i have one issue with the routine, though, which is that you do the reaction tech chase practice with falcon. i understand the rationale behind this, since ultimately we're going for simply having a better understanding of characters' tech animations/windows. nonetheless, i feel that this might be counterproductive as a fox main, since the actual ins and outs of reaction tech chasing will be different for each character -- wavedash timing/distance, grab/option range, etc. do you have any idea of how to implement this with fox himself, rather than switching to falcon? i'm thinking downthrow reaction tech chases might be effective, but i'm also worried this is much too hard for a human to do consistently.
I'd recommend anything but downthrow. I think the most common situations that come up in play are uthrow to platform at lowish% or uthrow usmash at lowish%. Backthrow can work too if they don't DI away and tech away. Downthrow is super complicated and probably isn't a very effective way to practice reaction techchasing. At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters too much what setup you're using to practice it, that's why I recommend using Falcon, so just use the same ideas of locking the percent and whatnot and practice it whatever way you prefer.
Which version of 20XX do you use? The current one has no toggles and my old version just has the NPCs jump after I throw them with the invuln and no knockback enabled.
+Planet Cozener I use v4.05. I don't often find myself needing cpu toggles. Sure, they're definitely needed for some things, but some of it, like shield pressure, can still be done in v4.05 by disabling knockback
I'd guess that some people do, though I assume most people probably use control stick and c stick or A. There's a bunch of options how to do it. Personally, I always use Javi claw so I don't have to change my grip, but if I were to play normally, I'd use up on control stick + A even though that's probably not the best way to do it
Thanks maybe I'll look into Javi claw, though it's really unnatural and uncomfortable for me when I try it. But I'm pretty much a beginner so I have the luxury of figuring out the best habits before I put a ton of practice time in. I've been using the control stick like you mentioned, also when jumping out of a gimp Shine. Seems really fluid. But maybe Javi claw will be better. My issue is it seems like the R and Z button are more difficult to use. Also my hand feels kind of tense with that grip.
Yes, pressing Z takes a lot of practice with that grip, and doing up air with c stick also took me a while. R is still pretty inaccessible for me, and that's one of the biggest tradeoffs of using the grip. Still though, I use it because I find it to be so much easier than a normal grip... You have to be so fast with a normal grip for Fox. I used to play Luigi who is comparatively easy, and never uses JC usmash, so I'm not actually sure what the most popular methods for JC usmash are.
for anyone getting into fox or just melee in general: this is NOT necessary. you can improve without a lot of tech skill. not to imply its useless, not at all, but that it simply isnt required. you can improve through other methods too!
I dig the practice routine and great video but for the on-shield stuff, isn't on-shield timing different and why wouldn't you just give the cpu an unlimited shield?
+Jacob Melito The hitlag is the same for shield and on hit. 20XX v4.05 does not have CPU commands, so this is used instead. Plus no knockback makes practicing shinegrab more efficient.
jc shine is required during "dash", which is before a run happens. in a run, you can either immediately shine, which is kind of hard to do, or crouch shine. most people crouch shine out of a run. generally, i don't think people jc shine out of run.
The reason is because Fox is fast enough to reaction techchase, he just doesn't have a good setup to practice it. Sure, Sheik and Luigi can also reaction techchase, but Falcon's is the closest to fox in that most of the time you'll be techchasing with dash > JC grab. The purpose of practicing with Falcon is so that you can quickly determine how people are teching as Fox, and punish them, even though it's not going to be a repeated throw > techchase loop.
TurbinationE falcons kneebend is 3 Frames, fox is 2. you can do both frame perfect, and switch between anytime, it shouldn't mess up your fox wd timing unless you're knew to 2 frame kneebend wd
Maybe one day, but probably not too soon. You can make your own though in a similar format. One of the reasons this is so effective is because of its structure where everything is practiced for 30 seconds to 5 minutes, and never more
+Brennan Rodriguez Look up "Falco Trials", that might help, or maybe check out SSBM Tutorials to see if they have anything on Falco. I might also make a video like this for Falco too eventually since several people have requested it
Hey guys, I've been playing melee seriously for about 9 months now, and I main Fox and Marth. I can do most of the stuff in the video, (working on it at least), except for consistent shine nair pressure. Any tips on how to do it more consistently?
Typically the hardest part of learning shield pressure is the muscle memory. Your brain has to make decisions very quickly on how to move your fingers to execute it. Even if your fingers are fast enough, you could be held back by your brain. In my experience, developing muscle memory is faster and easier when you practice more frequently with shorter sessions, such as every day, 5 minutes a day, as opposed to less frequently with longer sessions. I think it also helps if you do it right before you go to bed. Bottom line is just keep practicing and it should get ironed out pretty quickly.
Thanks for responding so fast! I'm definitely limited in playing time because of school, so I'm usually relegated to 2-3 hour session on Friday and the weekends. I'll try to find the time during the week for just a few minutes at least to practice. Actually the worst part about it for me is that I keep doing fullhops out of my shine because I'm so used to waveshining. Thanks!
It's just an arbitrary number that I chose. Pick any number or setup you're comfortable with. The goal is to learn what the animations look like, so it doesn't really matter what moves you use to set it up as long as it puts you in a reaction techchase situation
Techskill is really hard for me on netplay because of my laggy internet and laggy computer. Even if my connection was perfect, it would still lag because my computer freezes for brief periods of time at random intervals. So yes, on console I'm way smoother, but I still have work to do for sure. I've only done this routine like 5 or 6 times
Maybe clarify what mods ppl need for this routine; the setup features you mention are only available to players with game mods that are exceedingly difficult to get and make use of. Vanilla melee is how most of us got into the game, and it is not a given that everyone has unclepunchy or 20xxpracticepack. Also- you don't have links to the other videos you mention posted here.
This isn't bad, but I think there should be more emphasis on the real basic BnB combos (don't worry other routines neglect this too so I'm not singling you out). Nothing like watching a Fox with crispy movement that can't upthrow upair a Marth that DIs behind him.
+bearsfan092 Haha. True, but the reason most BnB combos are avoided here is to keep it short and applicable to all (or at least most) matchups. If you have 45 minutes to spare I'm sure you could add in a 2-3 minutes each on all the high tiers. I also do 15 minute practice routines for specific matchups which go more in depth on their combos. I'll probably make some more of these videos eventually which will cover other stuff such as BnB combos
I've been struggling to phrase this in the nicest way possible, but I think it would probably be a good idea to actually know how to wavedash properly with Fox before making a practice routine video of him.
ive been doing this routine 3 times a day for the past week and i have noticed a huge improvement in my tech skill. thank you papa remix
+Salmon Glad to hear it helped you :)
I thought the last step was going to be how to L+R+A+start as Falcon.
thats hacks
For people who want the routine in a text format:
Setup: Fox on FD, D-pad down, Y+D-pad Up
1. Dash > wavedash (2m)
2. Dash dance across stage (2m)
3. Dash backwards (30s)
4. Dash back > JC grab (2m)
5. Up Smash OOS (1m)
6. Dash back > JC Up smash (1m)
7. Short hop (30s)
8. Retreating lasers (3m)
9. Running shine (1m)
10. Ledgedash (3m)
11. Wavedash (1m)
12. Waveshine > dash (30s)
13. Waveshine > dashback (30s)
14. Backwards waveshine follow-ups (2m)
Setup: X+D-pad Up
15. Shine nair shield pressure (1m)
16. Shine grab (1m)
17. Double shine grab (1m)
18. Platform dash on Battlefield (1m)
19. [Platform dash on Dream Land (1m)]
20. Platform dash on Yoshi's (1m)
21. Platform laser land on Yoshi's (1m)
Setup: Falcon vs. Falco on FD, ~50% then Y+D-Pad Up
22. Reaction techchase (3m)
thanks
Is this on melee or are you using something else?
As a player who doesnt (currently) have anyone to play with and wants to get more technical I REALLY appreciate this video.
I may not be a fox main but this video really helped me realize what I need to work on.
Thanks! I'm glad it got you thinking, that's really my goal after all. There's so much potential for every character in Melee but mental blocks are a huge struggle for pretty much everyone, and that really limits potential improvement.
P.S.: At the end of the video I mentioned a way to support me. I think you can still use that, but I'll likely be opening a Patreon in the near future which you can get rewards for your support, if you'd be more interested in that. Regardless though, thanks for being here and watching! I think I'm going to slowly turn this into a series, so stay tuned if you're interested in more
For any higher level players wanting some more stuff to chew on, do dash JC shine, wavedash backwards, then dashback repeat. It's a really short and concise action, but I suggest keeping it between 30 secs and a minute, since it's HARD on your hands. Especially if you're good at it, and able to do it fast.
hahah, seeing you here
great video, bunch of exercises i never thought of
Great video as always Remix. I like the idea of practicing waveshine dash timing as well as dash backs.
Just one thing: I want to try to convince you that platform dashing on Dreamland is NOT worth going for. It requires frame perfect execution on two inputs and can be heavily punished if messed up. Ledge dash is better from a risk reward standpoint even if they expect it.
Actually yeah you're right. Now that I think about it going to the platform on Dream Land is probably significantly worse than a ledge dash. You could just cut this from the routine, or allocate that 1 minute of time elsewhere, where you think you need it.
This is awesome, I really wanted to practice and not just destro CPUs for one hour. It really motivated me, I'll be doing it for sure. Great work!
Hey, great video! I'd definitely recommend doing the waveshine stuff and followup work on cpus in unclepunch as well, you can set them to DI certain ways too.
If you're having trouble keeping track of the timing for each task, I definitely recommend using an interval timer. I specifically used the app simply titled "Interval Timer" by Alysha Kwok on the Apple App Store.
Also, just want to note that perhaps practicing dash back isn't useful nowadays with UCF being fairly standardized (which makes dash back consistent on all controllers).
It's also always good practice to do fox chaingrabs on 20XX spacies with random DI. It'll really put your backwards dash JC grabs to the test.
Right. If you think it's important enough to include here, you can add it in, but personally I leave it for my fox/falco practice routine where I can devote more time to it.
I think this video is amazing, and I actually think if you made it a series for multiple characters then it'd be really helpful for newer players
Yep! That's the eventual plan. Falco has been highly requested so I'll probably be doing that within the next few weeks.
I want to add shffl, ariel (diff momentum) jc grab wavedash out of tight dash dance. you want to be able to do anything out of dash dance on command
and also double shine nair or grab
A falco one please! Very nice content btw man!!
Found anything usefull for falco?
Just a tip for foxes, perfect wavedash timing and angle followed by fastest possible dash makes fox fly and basically gives him a super long dd.
+LolzSquid Yep, Fox's movement is insane when executed perfectly. Movement should definitely not be underestimated
Love the routine. Can you make one for falco too. I've watched SSBM Tutorials and The Falco Trials, but this is still (by far) the best and I would like to know wha falco tech skill is best to rehearse
yo dude, thanks for the haxxin, i hate vaccin but i take the total dose of haxxin and i'm now immune from leffen virus
kid chise
@@XxRaceRCxX I was 14
Can you do one for Falco?
+aguvya I'll throw it on my to-do list. Gotta figure out what's important first too, since my Falco's maybe not the most optimal
Thanks so much man! As a sub, I really love your content. Keep it up, I hope to see your channel blow up!
OMG TWINS SHINE
3Ree lol
start with just dashdance and just wavedash separately. although it’s for a different character, i think pewpewu has the best warm up video when it comes to grounded movement. also shine grab is not hard it should be practiced after a sh nair. also green color overlay on standup is a crucial tool for fox practice. practicing frame perfect shines or dashes after airiels on shield or for practicing drill grab
great vid
Falcon workout please?
Should I use the stick or y/x to wavedash
Quick question re: the warmup, should you return the control stick to neutral after the dash input before wavedashing, or just roll the stick to the wavedash position?
I'd say it's mainly personal preference. I think releasing it each time may be slightly more optimal with enough practice but it's very minimal so I'd just recommend doing it the way you're comfortable.
Awesome, thanks.
What kinds of things would you suggest falco player practice? Currently I'm 1 month into playing and I'm very comfortable with pillar combos and building confidence on platform movement. Right now my biggest weakness is extending combos on platforms
I would probably spend at least 3 minutes, 1 minute on each of different variations on shine > waveland. I'm not too much of a Falco player, but being able to get onto a platform after any shine that's below one seems really helpful.
I'd probably also work on reverse up tilts, as laser > reverse up tilt seems really powerful if someone jumps over your laser to approach.
I'd also work on tightening up timing for laser approaches, so that something like laser > shine (assuming you're in range) has no chance of them punishing you after the laser, setting up for free shield pressure.
OOS waveshine seems like it would be a prime target to practice as well, since you get so much damage off of a shine, and shine OOS is a very fast option.
And of course a lot of the same options as Fox in this video, like wavedash, shield pressure, retreating lasers, etc.
Who knows, maybe I'll eventually make one of these for Falco and some other characters too. If anyone's interested, let me know. I have tons of other videos planned, so who knows, but I'm sure I'd be able to get to it eventually.
Thanks for the advice!
What inputs do you use for all these techniques? For example, I do up smash oos with up on analog and up on cstick. Also I jc grab with y+z and do running upsmash with up analog and up cstick
That's an entire discussion in and of itself.
Personally, I use Javi claw, and I use X + c stick for JC usmash, both OOS and out of run. For JC grab i use Y + Z.
Eventually I'm going to make a few related videos regarding input methods in melee, and this will be one of the topics covered.
Is there a pdf for the list?
I would absolutely KILL for a Falco one of these. I'm trying to reach mid level as a Falco only player and i'm so lost.
+karMa I'll try to get around to making one eventually. A couple people asked about Falco and I gave a couple examples, so you can check that out. There's probably some stuff on Falco at SSBM Tutorials that could help too so look that up if you're interested
Heyo Remix, great vid. I just have a couple questions. Are you a good melee player in tournament? You have a lot of great knowledge and tech but how are you in competitive? Do you have any notable wins?
+NA Hoboss I'm decent but not that great. I'm honestly still kinda new to Fox which is my main now. I mained Luigi for a long time before. I've never won anything with more than 32 entrants, but I'm working towards it. Steadily improving.
Hello !
First of all thanks for your channel, I love it.
I''ve been playing for two year, but I currently lives in an area were NO ONE plays smash(nearest weekly is a 3h30 drive...) so it's hard staying motivated to play...But I'm going to try and have a steady practice regimen to get back into it.
With that said, since I intend to learn everything back from the bascis(to get rid of bad habits) would you say it's worth it to switch to Claw style ?
+Brendan2981 Yep, I'd highly recommend some sort of claw grip if you play Fox. You don't have to stay claw the whole time though. A lot of players only switch to it when they need it.
There's a few variations, so just go with whichever one is the most comfortable for you. I'm going to eventually make a video on the different controller grips people use, but probably not until after Big House, a couple weeks from now.
Living far from people is rough but if you get some good internet, netplay can be really good. I'd highly recommend checking that out as both solo practice and practice against other players are important to getting better st melee.
Okay, I think I'll try it for a while !
Yeah I use netplay a lot, but I miss having real life "training partner" to discuss the game and improve with : o) I'm trying to start the melee community here but it'll be a long time before we have a solid base of player : p
I've been fiddling with claw for a few hours now(first time really trying it) and it's not as difficult as I thought. I can already shffl pretty consistently, and my wavedash are still clunky(used to WD with R) but it's comming along
But oh god, all the shine stuff. It feels so great. Throwing out aerials seamlessly out of jump is also great.
(I think I use more of a Javi grip tho. Middle finger is Y, index does A/B and thumb is always resting on the C stick. Ring finger for Z)
Javi claw? Or standard claw? Both are good. And yeah, it's really not that difficult. I learned Javi claw in like 3 weeks of 5-15 minutes a day
Only thing I can't do is shine nair
This video is awesome, I just wish that someone would make something like this for Smash 4 Zero Suit Samus.
can you do a video on fox's shine back-air? this is the best melee channel on youtube man.
+Tooni I'll throw it on the to-do list, and thanks, I appreciate it
hey remix. thanks so much for this video! really well put together routine, gonna consider implementing into my own practice soon. i have one issue with the routine, though, which is that you do the reaction tech chase practice with falcon. i understand the rationale behind this, since ultimately we're going for simply having a better understanding of characters' tech animations/windows. nonetheless, i feel that this might be counterproductive as a fox main, since the actual ins and outs of reaction tech chasing will be different for each character -- wavedash timing/distance, grab/option range, etc. do you have any idea of how to implement this with fox himself, rather than switching to falcon? i'm thinking downthrow reaction tech chases might be effective, but i'm also worried this is much too hard for a human to do consistently.
I'd recommend anything but downthrow. I think the most common situations that come up in play are uthrow to platform at lowish% or uthrow usmash at lowish%. Backthrow can work too if they don't DI away and tech away. Downthrow is super complicated and probably isn't a very effective way to practice reaction techchasing. At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters too much what setup you're using to practice it, that's why I recommend using Falcon, so just use the same ideas of locking the percent and whatnot and practice it whatever way you prefer.
Sounds good. Thanks!
Which version of 20XX do you use? The current one has no toggles and my old version just has the NPCs jump after I throw them with the invuln and no knockback enabled.
+Planet Cozener I use v4.05. I don't often find myself needing cpu toggles. Sure, they're definitely needed for some things, but some of it, like shield pressure, can still be done in v4.05 by disabling knockback
When doing JC up-smash do you have to temporarily switch to claw grip?
I'd guess that some people do, though I assume most people probably use control stick and c stick or A. There's a bunch of options how to do it. Personally, I always use Javi claw so I don't have to change my grip, but if I were to play normally, I'd use up on control stick + A even though that's probably not the best way to do it
Thanks maybe I'll look into Javi claw, though it's really unnatural and uncomfortable for me when I try it. But I'm pretty much a beginner so I have the luxury of figuring out the best habits before I put a ton of practice time in. I've been using the control stick like you mentioned, also when jumping out of a gimp Shine. Seems really fluid. But maybe Javi claw will be better. My issue is it seems like the R and Z button are more difficult to use. Also my hand feels kind of tense with that grip.
Yes, pressing Z takes a lot of practice with that grip, and doing up air with c stick also took me a while. R is still pretty inaccessible for me, and that's one of the biggest tradeoffs of using the grip. Still though, I use it because I find it to be so much easier than a normal grip... You have to be so fast with a normal grip for Fox. I used to play Luigi who is comparatively easy, and never uses JC usmash, so I'm not actually sure what the most popular methods for JC usmash are.
i just won evo because of this
how many subs to your twitch for an updated version 👀
i haven't played this game in so long i'm not even really qualified anymore lol
@@RemixSSBM understandable! Know that the melee scene will always welcome you back any time, and we wish you well!
for anyone getting into fox or just melee in general: this is NOT necessary. you can improve without a lot of tech skill. not to imply its useless, not at all, but that it simply isnt required. you can improve through other methods too!
this may be a dumb question but how do you get the setups for infinite shield and the like to work. is that only for 20xx?
+SwagMaster69 Yep. You can set handicap to 9 and damage ratio 0.5 to mimic this on vanilla melee if you don't have access to 20XX
I dig the practice routine and great video but for the on-shield stuff, isn't on-shield timing different and why wouldn't you just give the cpu an unlimited shield?
+Jacob Melito The hitlag is the same for shield and on hit. 20XX v4.05 does not have CPU commands, so this is used instead. Plus no knockback makes practicing shinegrab more efficient.
Status update on the Falco one?
Probably won't be until february, sorry. I'm going to post a lot starting in January, but I have a lot of other videos I want to do first
you guys JC shine for running or just crouch?
jc shine is required during "dash", which is before a run happens. in a run, you can either immediately shine, which is kind of hard to do, or crouch shine. most people crouch shine out of a run. generally, i don't think people jc shine out of run.
is that Dpad input at the beggining of the vídeo for 20xx?
Yes, but not TE, only the full version of 20XX on a Wii. I haven't used 4.06 yet, but I know the inputs are the same on 3.02 and 4.05
Why did you include the Falcon tech chase at the end?
The reason is because Fox is fast enough to reaction techchase, he just doesn't have a good setup to practice it. Sure, Sheik and Luigi can also reaction techchase, but Falcon's is the closest to fox in that most of the time you'll be techchasing with dash > JC grab. The purpose of practicing with Falcon is so that you can quickly determine how people are teching as Fox, and punish them, even though it's not going to be a repeated throw > techchase loop.
Yeah, but Falcon's wavedash is really different than Fox's. To practice tech chasing with Fox, couldn't you just up throw a Falco/Fox CPU?
Actually I guess you could. I've actually never messed around with it because Falcon's is so simple, but I guess you probably could do that.
If I recall correctly, nairing fast fallers around 40ish percent can set up for a reaction tech chase.
TurbinationE falcons kneebend is 3 Frames, fox is 2. you can do both frame perfect, and switch between anytime, it shouldn't mess up your fox wd timing unless you're knew to 2 frame kneebend wd
Could you make one for Marth?
Maybe one day, but probably not too soon. You can make your own though in a similar format. One of the reasons this is so effective is because of its structure where everything is practiced for 30 seconds to 5 minutes, and never more
Are there any things like this for Falco?
+Brennan Rodriguez Look up "Falco Trials", that might help, or maybe check out SSBM Tutorials to see if they have anything on Falco. I might also make a video like this for Falco too eventually since several people have requested it
You've earned my sub, hope to see it soon! The other ones are useful, but not to the same degree as this.
Hey guys, I've been playing melee seriously for about 9 months now, and I main Fox and Marth. I can do most of the stuff in the video, (working on it at least), except for consistent shine nair pressure. Any tips on how to do it more consistently?
Typically the hardest part of learning shield pressure is the muscle memory. Your brain has to make decisions very quickly on how to move your fingers to execute it. Even if your fingers are fast enough, you could be held back by your brain. In my experience, developing muscle memory is faster and easier when you practice more frequently with shorter sessions, such as every day, 5 minutes a day, as opposed to less frequently with longer sessions. I think it also helps if you do it right before you go to bed. Bottom line is just keep practicing and it should get ironed out pretty quickly.
Thanks for responding so fast! I'm definitely limited in playing time because of school, so I'm usually relegated to 2-3 hour session on Friday and the weekends. I'll try to find the time during the week for just a few minutes at least to practice. Actually the worst part about it for me is that I keep doing fullhops out of my shine because I'm so used to waveshining. Thanks!
does this make me automatically good at fox?
yes
multishine tutorial
why do you suggest techchasing at 45%?
It's just an arbitrary number that I chose. Pick any number or setup you're comfortable with. The goal is to learn what the animations look like, so it doesn't really matter what moves you use to set it up as long as it puts you in a reaction techchase situation
RIP HANDS
so is your fox much more crispier than your fox with Remix (Fox) vs. Gerb (Marth)?
I mean if you still are like that then these exercises are mediocre
Techskill is really hard for me on netplay because of my laggy internet and laggy computer. Even if my connection was perfect, it would still lag because my computer freezes for brief periods of time at random intervals.
So yes, on console I'm way smoother, but I still have work to do for sure. I've only done this routine like 5 or 6 times
Maybe clarify what mods ppl need for this routine; the setup features you mention are only available to players with game mods that are exceedingly difficult to get and make use of. Vanilla melee is how most of us got into the game, and it is not a given that everyone has unclepunchy or 20xxpracticepack. Also- you don't have links to the other videos you mention posted here.
I really likes the video, but the soundtrack for me at least is distracting.
hi mom
your wavedashes look weird ? D:
This isn't bad, but I think there should be more emphasis on the real basic BnB combos (don't worry other routines neglect this too so I'm not singling you out). Nothing like watching a Fox with crispy movement that can't upthrow upair a Marth that DIs behind him.
+bearsfan092 Haha. True, but the reason most BnB combos are avoided here is to keep it short and applicable to all (or at least most) matchups. If you have 45 minutes to spare I'm sure you could add in a 2-3 minutes each on all the high tiers. I also do 15 minute practice routines for specific matchups which go more in depth on their combos. I'll probably make some more of these videos eventually which will cover other stuff such as BnB combos
Anyone else’s hands hurt?
=o
mor di
I've been struggling to phrase this in the nicest way possible, but I think it would probably be a good idea to actually know how to wavedash properly with Fox before making a practice routine video of him.
Eh, if you don't like it, don't use it.
I play this guy in tournament semi-frequently and trust me, he knows how to wavedash.
?
What was bad about his wavedashes? They looked normal to me.
Alright alright The air dodge is late
He said short lmao that’s like 30+ minutes lmao