Dialogue Dive: Bojack Horseman- The Dad Talk
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- Опубліковано 15 гру 2020
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Link to full Butterscotch monologue: • Free Churro | Bojack's... - Фільми й анімація
Long time no Bojack, huh? Make sure to check out my book on the website too! :
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You should voice an audio book of your novel!
how does this have only 3 comments?
12:10 BoJack even talks about this on the funeral, with the cup on the set of Horsin Around
You
Additionally, his father is aware of how impressionable Bojack is at this age because he says, "while your brain is all loose and stupid." Yet, he doesn't reflect on his own words or actions to see how those could be negatively impacting him at such a young age.
That's why he's a terrible writer. He doesn't think before he does anything
Oh good catch! I actually missed that!
So was Beatrice and Bojack and when you put the abuse in that lense it's all the much worse.
Butterscotch also undermines his own point when he slammed the brakes and honked the car horn immediately after calling his son a ‘little noise factory’
Calling him a noise factory when he didn’t say a single word or even make any sound at all during the whole scene really says something about butterscotch.
projection
P
@@froggyplatypus Tbf he's talking about when his son is at home and gave a very specific example - having the TV too loud (by his standards anyway), so it's not like he's just making shit up. Obviously Bojack locked in a car after not being picked up and having his dad monologuing is gonna be very different than Bojack at home.
I just appreciate that "really fascinating long sentence that went on for pages" tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about his book.
He’s so self obsessed that he doesn’t realize how bad run-on sentences are.
@@karenlinares7541 no, but... yeah"
It's more than that. Just from the way he talks about it, you just know he doesn't revise either; he'd say "it destroys the voice of the moment" or something.
@@tyrant-den884 ooh
Good point.
I love how lines like these can have slightly different interpretations while telling a different side of him in each one.
As a creative, it's very recogniseable. I think there are kinda 'gears' of self-improvement creatives naturally develop through (and always more of them than you imagine there being), as they gain more and more appreciation of the process of self-refinement. At least, that's how I've found my own development to go, and it makes sense when applied to the work of others. Butterscotch is so desperately stuck at square one, after you notice a thing is something you can do, but before you admit to yourself that you can get it wrong. He's still in that mindset of "ruining it" if doing any kind of revisitation whatsoever. He still holds all his creative output as precious, and is nowhere near culling his darlings (as it were). Just seems to lack the impetus to kick himself in the ass at all. Sad thing is he seems to have some passion for writing - he wouldn't plug away at it for so long if he didn't - but the stubbornness, keeps him just bashing his head against a wall. Never develop, only do - never edit, only append... and keep doing and doing until one day, for no reason it magically works. Of course it never will because you just don't make good stuff without self-development.
Perhaps informed a little by the way society tends to vaunt the best of stuff and decry the less good. Bit of a competition mentality at play, always as a background factor. Someone takes that to heart too sincerely, they could look upon great works of art and suppose their authors just woke up one morning and had done enough hacking away at it to finally end up with a sudden masterpiece. Not imagining them as flawed people who themselves made jank and needed to go back and refine it until they developed the ability to make better stuff. Beware putting people on pedestals, I guess. Not saying that I don't! I fawn over stuff I love just as much as anyone else does. Easy thing to miss. Had the good fortune to realise more than just that mindset though and actually improve. Butterscotch likely never did.
"The zone" is definitely a thing and sometimes raw output is a gem all in its own way; every now and then it really is revealing to just allow some art to be its first draft. But like with anything these are just a couple of tools in what ought to be a full toolbox. And like with anything, skill in other areas informs and improves stuff even if you don't end up using that stuff in a particular instance - the gap can be the difference, the mere awareness the driving force of the wonder behind its absence.
My songwriting is my main thing, but my poetry (and by extension, to a degree my lyrics) took a lot longer for me to leave first gear on. I get it. I noticed I was good at bodging together strings of flowery language that sound good said - something I do naturally, something I actually have genuine difficulty not doing. My initial attempts at slapping a bit of meaning onto these verbal musics were clumsy and faultering, and often even kinda absent altogether. I got some praise sometimes and let it go to my head. Took some friends kicking my ass to make me realise I wasn't the poem machine I was defaulting to thinking of myself as. That I was accepting "good enough". Took a bit longer still to get that the relative inability to write something simple and direct could actually be more of a handicap than an advantage - something to overcome rather than something to rest upon. The best of friends will always kick your ass when it needs be kicked, of course. :) Butterscotch doesn't sound like he maybe has a circle of friends willing to do that (judging by how sure of himself he comes across). That could be a part of it too.
@@karenlinares7541 Turning interconnected ideas into multiple sentences feels like taking a hacksaw to the editing room, and using your own blood to glue the pieces together. It kinda works, but the result doesn't look pretty, and i don't feel good about it.
Butterscotch is the master of no accountability. Remember this is coming from the same guy who said,
"It's Henrietta... The girl went and got herself pregnant"
Yeah, just like women are typically known to do, Butterscotch. Lol
When you look closer, you can really tell just how much Bojack is like his parents. He's basically a carbon copy of his dad, but with the artistic talent, self-loathing, and sarcasm of his mom.
Damn gotta hate myself for getting myself pregnant again lol 😆
I forgot that butterscotch said that. His character is just urg 😂
@@ladyofnoxus6733 Lady, you gotta stop getting yourself pregnant. Rofl 😂
Also the lady YOU made the mistake of making your mother
@@bluebird1914 A xerox of a xerox some might say
You gotta be kidding me that he says "I see you" from the get go and I never realized this until now. This episode... It has to be one of the peaks of television in history.
On my most recent re-watch of the series i noticed when Bojack is driving Beatrice to the elderly facility to leave her there after she drugged Hollyhock, she starts talking how she has a son who is a ball of gas, but is also a star. Bojack is convinced for a moment shes talking about him, but shes just talking about the Sun. It's a pretty crushing foreshadowing of the ICU moment
@@herefishyfishy13 omg nooo i didn't want to figure that out
@@herefishyfishy13 but he literally realizes she was talking about the sun because he gets upset and says ofc you’re just talking about the sun right?!
i’m sitting here literally jaw dropped at this. the Writing is so incredible
Kelsey Jannings also refers to herself as "a director who sees you" in Season 3 Episode 8 and she was a surrogate mother figure for Bojack.
You forgot to mention that Bojack ends the show with a hint of closure towards his mother: he puts up an Ibsen play, Hedda Gabler, in prison. And sure, it's not Strindberg, but it's not for granted- Bojack knew how much his mother liked Ibsen and he chose to do it. That says something.
damn I had no idea, This show really is brilliantly written
Nice find
It’s no casa Blanca
😭😭😭
I never even noticed that, wow. As much as he despises her, perhaps there's a part of him that still wants to do right by her, even if he isn't aware of that part. (Not that doing a play really does anything for her NOW, but you know.)
A Dolls House holds an especially strong connection to Beatrice because in it Nora remarks that she was like a Doll that her father played with and she was simply passed from her fathers hands to her husband's.
not to mention at the end nora decides to put herself first and leave her husband and kids in order to find her own happiness-something beatrice always wanted but could never find the strength to do
@@gracemassey385 just like her mother.... "I'll take flight.... maybe tomorrow, not tonight"
Holy shit
In defense of Beatrice's father and husband, what attracted Beatrice to Butterscotch in the first place was how different he was from the man her father wanted her to marry. While it's true Beatrice only married Butterscotch because he got her unintentionally pregnant with Bojack, marrying Butterscotch was Beatrice breaking free from her father's influence.
Of course, that all means nothing, however, since Butterscotch ended up working for Beatrice's father's company and Beatrice would later realize marrying Butterscotch was the worst mistake of her life as seen when she convinced Henrietta to give Hollyhawk up for adoption.
@@gracemassey385 it's also important to mention that the original performance of that ending was so controversial it nearly ruined the writer. He wrote a second play where she comes back to the home in the attempts to finalize a divorce, and has to make the same decision all over again.
It didn’t even occur to me how much BoJack emotes during this monologue. There’s like, a new facial expression every three seconds.
I think Amy Winfrey just wanted to flex her face-drawing skills, and used this minimal-animation episode as an excuse to do so.
I can't believe they animated an animated character in an animated show.
@@SuperMrDelgado I know, right? Me neither. All jokes aside, I only made this comment because I was impressed with how much BoJack is visibly reacting to Butterscotch’s monologue when BoJack isn’t the focus. There’s a tendency for animators to hold back on excessive animation to save time or they just straight-up forget. You can notice this in other animated shows when background characters have a static and blank expression on their face. I still appreciate the comment though.
@@justincruz5720 I was being a prick but compared to most mainstream animation this actually is impressive.
@@SuperMrDelgado That we can agree on.
That line when Butterscotch talks about his sentence is also great at showing why he's a poor writer. He's thinking about the run on sentence not for it's effect or structure, but as evidence that HE is writing. It shows how he as a writer is as obliviously narcissistic as he is as a person, he's his own worst enemy.
Honestly, sometimes I see a sentence I write like that because it's the first time I've had the will to write in like, 6 months. And then I take a second look at it and just go, "what kind of PURPOSE does this serve?" I hate my writing.
@justA UselessBigender that’s how you can tell he didn’t even looked at it let alone do a second draft after he wrote it
@@poprocks6576 yeah, what a pompous prick. Glad that paper sent him spiralling.
"Your mother's having *another one of her episodes*"
... HOLY SHIT
OH
What???
@@aissetousillah3283 but they never said what she died of
@@annikaheydl7342 she was 80. Dementia already gave her health complications. And by the Free Churro Monologue, since she died with a frozen gasp, it probably was a stroke.
@@phonesjuda7318 yeah but the episode the dad mentions was before she had dementia, so what kind of episode was that?
I feel like the end of Butterscotch's monologue serves another function: that "hopefulness" an abused kid has that your parent is somewhat good. You can see it in Bojack's change of expression, that he's genuinely curious and not disassociating when his father takes that turn... but then it just makes him more confused and hurt when Butterscotch dives into that "lesson".
I know that exact same stare and body language, physically trying to turn away and close yourself off from the parent/abuser.
And then the slight glimmer of hope fullness that they’re doing something good. The bar can be so low in that kinda home life.
This show is so fucking good.
@@realsadegg7246 Unfortunately there's a lot of childhood Bojack scenes that I can relate to. It's hard to watch, but there's something comforting about seeing this sort of thing get shown.
That was my read too! It seemed like the shifts in tone were meant to highlight Butterscotch’s pattern of abusive behavior
Doll House works in so many ways. Not only is it a play about a woman wanting to leave her husband but it also reinforces Beatrice's connection with her doll. Her little baby that was destroyed by her father; who was also a cruel narcissistic man. Just like her husband. The name in and of itself almost creates a perfect sadness loop for Beatrice forever reminding her of everything that went wrong in her life. So it's no wonder no when she woke up the next day all she could do was cry.
I really love the fact that Bojack's dad's monologue is a run-on sentence because you wouldn't catch it early on unless you listened to it again.
Butterscotch calls Bojack a "little noise factory" yet Butterscotch was the only one speaking while Bojack sat there in silence
Butterscotch was also looking past Bojack when he said "I see you", he didn't really look at Bojack directly.
thats not the point of the line. the point is to highlight how, despite how cruel and soulless Bojack's parents were, they DID see him and they DID acknowledge him, but he was too busy focusing on the negatives to realize that. he believed that he was never seen by his parents, even though he was. and it's a real thing that happens to people. sometimes we align our views on people with the general atmosphere and feelings we associate with them. but, in doing so, we fail to realize that there are often other parts of those people, that we end up completely missing because we're just waiting for what we associate with them. you could call it a kind of confirmation bias.
@@jammy3662 did they tell u that?
@@jammy3662 I...don't think thats the point either, though its an interesting take
I think it was to confirm what Bojack really wanted in life was for someone to tell him that they SAW him, saw him for what he truly was, and accepted that
Ever since his dad said that line, he just wanted to be seen, to be heard, to do anything in his power for someone to actually confirm he exists.
That last part is actually the most destructive: he set the ground where BoJack and Beatrice where the root of his misery, then took Beatrice out of the equation and told BoJack he was lucky. And even forced the kid to internalize it with the "thank you" closing. Imho, he set one of BoJack's depression's cornerstones there, of a useless man that had all the opportunities.
this is what i was sayibg
With all the attention they gave Beatrice’s backstory I wish they would’ve at least delved into butterscotch for one episode
I think they might’ve done that on purpose to show not everyone has to have a tragic backstory; some people are just cruel because that’s who they are
She is having one of her episodes again
I think it’s supposed to show that he’s either too proud or was taught young that he shouldn’t show emotions outside of misery or anger. That and it’s possible his type of abuse is inherited or passed down.
Even if it explained the way he views women.
I think it shows how meaningful absent he was in bojack’s life.
The way that butterscotch “takes responsibility” after ruining any possible sense of security in whatever familial love Bojack had ever and would ever experience is the best depiction of covert child abuse I’ve seen in a minute. It’s so accurate, and it’s accurate because it’s subtle
The FACT that this show made me watch a 20 minutes monologs with no real visuals other than a horse barely moving
AND ME NEVER THINKING DAMN THIS IS BORING
IS AMAZING
it passed by so quickly, i realized i had watched 20 minutes of monologue only when it ended
This scene made me want to come back writing fiction again :((
Bojack moved all the time, his gestures and expressions were so we'll animated
@@Anhtique yeah but he's like, walking and looking around. It takes immense skill but there's not much to describe in terms of physical space like in the underwater episode. The goal and outcome are that the audience doesn't really notice it and instead feels it.
hes not the only horse in the room that wasnt moving too much, am i right a h a h a a a a
ill see my self out im sorry :"DDDD
@@RozehKakeswell, he was. Because Beatrice was in another funeral hall lol
I just now understand the “a doll’s house” line clever stuff
I always thought she'd been looking at a literal doll's house. And at some point I believed to realize it had to do with her baby doll. That this was what made that doll house (which is for much smaller dolls) so significant.
"It's not Ibsen"
@@dragonsember Was this meant as a reply to me?
@@camelopardalis84 no, I'm quoting one of the first things he said about his show during the first episode
@@dragonsember Ah, okay. I remember that part.
"Blood Of Once Blood"... you just know fans of the novel are going to abbreviate it to "BOOB" when discussing it online. Also congrats.
Thats actually the only reason I wrote the book
@@savagebooks7482 lmfaooooo
@@savagebooks7482
Savage Fans: Did you hear what happened in BOOB?
People who don't know what Blood of Once Blood is: BOOB??
Damn, I'm actually impressed. All I've came up with is OOM
I cant wait for the sequel BOOBY
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I always thought it was so brilliant to have Will Arnett also be the voice of Butterscotch.
Despite the progress Bojack attempts to make, he's doomed to fall into the trap of being like his parents. Your parents are, more often than not, the foundation of who you are. Though Bojack tries to divorce himself from his unloving parents, he grows up to be so similar to them.
I think it’s amazing that Will Arnett also voices Secretariat, who’s the flip side of that coin.
That’s his lifelong idol, a source of hope from the darkness surrounding himself and his home life!
The whole intersection of Will Arnett playing all those characters makes it feel like such a gut punch every time you hear Butterscotch speak
@@realsadegg7246 Arnett is only Secretariats voice in The view from Halfway down because he is also Bojacks father so he keeps Butterscotchs voice. Regular Secretariat is voiced by John Krasinski
His character basically became Beatrice's behavior and Butterscotch's personality merged into one
Did anyone notice that during his monologue, he's very aggressive towards bojack, and is blaming him for even being born as well as blaming his mother. But later he's like "she's doing the best she can", he's giving beatrice some sort of leeway and patience, but never gives bojack any, even though they were both causes of butterscotchs unhappiness, only beatrice was worth the patience, and bojack wasnt. Maybe he didn't acknowledge bojack because he doesn't want bojack to know that he tolerates anything less then perfection from bojack. Or maybe it's because he genuinely believes bojack doesn't deserve leeway. Idk I think that small detail is something to be acknowledged.
He chose Beatrice. BoJack was a consequence. If he just shat on Beatrice, he’d be poo-pooing his own decision and he’s incapable of being critical to himself and his choices. I do love your observation.
I feel like "doing the best she can, but she's failing" is how he sees women. He thinks that's the maximum they can do so that's why he doesn't blame her that much, which is even more toxic.
Butterscotch doesn't give him anyway because he doesn't give himself anyway leeway. Best way I can put is Bojack is Homelander minus the powers who actually wants to get better & Butterscotch is Soldier Boy. Same asshole different generation. Butterscotch was born in the 30s his dad prolly had WWI shell shock (PTSD) & at that time soldiers with PTSD were just dismissed so they usually went home & found a punching bag. It would be nice if they added another season or 2 to fully flesh out Butterscotch.
@redpanda6497 so basically he's saying she's pathetic but at least she can't help it but Bojack is completely at fault for his pathetic ness in his father eyes of course.
Until watching this video, I totally missed that the first thing Butterscotch says is, "Yes, yes. I see you..." After which, "I see you / I.C.U." becomes the major plot points of Bojack's monologue in the rest of the episode.
I gotta argue what you said about the "pearls are for ladies" part. The way Butterscotch says "pearls are for ladies" sounds so personal. Like something traumatic happened to Butterscotch that seared this concept into his head.
I took it as a horrible sexual assault joke or a murder joke. Like c*mmining on another person or slicing their throat. I've heard pearls/pearl necklaces represent both.
@@UnDefinedLegacy oof. I never thought of that big damn. I took it to mean Butterscotch played with his mom’s jewelry as a kid and his dad beat him over it telling him that “pearls are for ladies” because he was worried Butterscotch would turn out gay or something.
@@candicefrost4561 you can still interpret it that way as well with the whole c*umming on another person. I just had a really dark interpretation because of how abusive Butterscotch is already.
@@UnDefinedLegacy what? I don't get that joke
I think "pearls" is a symbol for tears, which would make it mean "tears are for ladies" - "boys don't cry".
Ironic, given BoJack develops depression later and even actually cries, but the real importance of this interpretation is that it connects this line to the talk of Beatrice weeping, and it might even imply something about Butterscotch not weeping JUST because he's a boy. He knows exactly why Beatrice is upset, the earlier dialogue implies he has familiarity with the play and what it's about and he's just as unhappy as she is, but he can't waste time getting emotional about it because that's just not a boy thing to do.
So it essentially portrays Butterscotch as slightly more well-rounded and self-aware, justifying the conversation in the penultimate episode as well as the later line in Free Churro ("there was always an understanding that we were all drowning together", which isn't an impression you'd get from such an otherwise narcissistic monologue) - while at the same time reinforcing his toxic masculinity.
Or maybe I'm just reading too much into things i dunno
"Your mother is having one of her episodes."
Me, knowing that Beatrice's trauma stems from her mother being punished for having the audacity to feel emotions: 😬
is no one gonna talk about how Butterscotch wrote a sentence that went on for PAGES?!?!? And how that would be edited down?!?? And how he would hate that??!?
I feel like an actual child for giggling at the acronym of your book.
Hehe _BOOB_
I just realized that the first thing he says is "yes, yes, I see you", and the monologue in free churro revolves around bojack's desire of being seen by his parents. They saw him all along, they just didn't care.
Edit: lmao I really felt smart for that one and then it was a whole point in the video
the thing that really got me about this scene was the way little bojack was animated. He's hyperventilate. Taking everything in and making sure he doesn't do the wrong thing. As a child of abuse that knows the feeling of have a parent vent at you it just gets that moment so well.
The “THANK YOUU” was the most terrifying scene in this show. Brings back bad memories..
I always thought that the doll's house was to represent her trauma from childhood and that's why she was reminded of her marriage, her childhood and everything that happened. You know, as the burnt doll.
I never thought for it to be a play.
the writing team is incredible, but the performance is just insane. The pacing is just perfect. You can FEEL the tension in the car. He puts pauses in all the right places and he raises and lowers his pitch in great timing. Like... I love this monologue and his performance so much that I wanna perform this monologue. It's just so raw.
You also forgot to mention how Butterscotch didn’t apologize in the beginning for being late and instead went on a rant about Beatrice, a great example of the neglect and abuse Bojack experienced from his father
I may hate his Dad but "No you take the horn like god intended!" is the scene in the show that makes me laugh the most
How did I STILL miss that "I see you" in the beginning after multiple rewatches? These writers were all just amazing.
'brittle wisp of a woman' is one of my favourite insults ever
Wait, where does someone say that?
Camelopardis - The Green Giraffe towards the end of the monologue, when he's talking about what a bad mother beatrice is.
@@stadbab Thank you!
Camelopardis - The Green Giraffe no problem! i've started referring to myself as such haha
@@stadbab Noooooooo!!! Do you need a hug?
I want to teach Free Churro in a fiction writing class.
Brilliant writing
It's incredible how even at the end he's still not taking responsability and fully believes he's on the right, even when going "softer". When he says "she's a good mother for teaching you that" it's reinforcement that he believes Beatrice is at fault for him having to pickup Bojack, even if she was crying and he is BJ's father. It really is amazing perspective writing
i kinda wish the creators made his book real i really want to read that really fascinating long sentence that went on for pages
Well, his sentence started in such a way that it could continue forever, not unlike how infinity is assumed to last forever and ever but how could anyone know when no one can see to the end of forever because we as human beings live finite lives even though we were born from the communion of one being and one being that may have met on a sandy beach or a crowded street or in a loud discotheque or maybe they never really met at all, and they just showed different sides of themselves to the other person instead of really delving into who they each are and who they both are or who they may or may not be in this time we find them in, but what if they were never really present and they were just amorphous beings who floated near and past each other who happened to produce another person even though they never really meant to procreate or even find a real connection with someone else which might possibly lead to a child being born who has traits of both or either of them but isn’t really the result of their union because said child is also influenced by all the things that exist around them even though they’re not aware of those things or perhaps not aware of themselves in that they only see themselves as a reflection of those two unspeakable yet spoken-of beings. Eh, I could be wrong.
As someone with a threatre degree who works as a professional writer, I thought I'd click on this for fun but did not expect to learn anything new. Turns out I was VERY wrong. This is phenomenal analysis and now I'm kinda mad at my Alma Mater for not teaching a few very obvious and important dramatic points about one of the most recognized tools in the theatrical medium.
I am glad you found some value in the video! Thank you for the high praise, Brenton.
p.s. nice hair
Keep in mind Hannibal is a psychiatrist. He might have listed ingredients which interfere with psychiatric medicine as a deliberate red flag or another one of his word games.
I'm impressed you caught the Hannibal line in SotL. I've been on MAOI's before, so I'm well aware that these medications must be avoided; but not for the reasons you listed. MAOI's, when mixed with foods with high concentrations of thiamine, can cause the medications to become much stronger, dangerously effecting blood pressure. This, in turn, makes what Hannibal was eating in that line, a suicide attempt. Trust me, an amous bouch of chicken liver nearly have me a stroke, so I very much doubt Hannibal was taking any MAOI's at that time.
Wow 😲
I completely disagree with your notion that Bojack "doesn't depend on people". He does, and most of those people are the women in his life; the same women he hurts. That's one of the ways he hurts them and at the same time the most important reason or at least one of the most important reasons that it is hard for those women not to be hurt by him.
Great video. You didn't just offer a new perspective but provided so much additional information.
Edit: Added two missing letters.
I thought the same thing! Bojack is constantly seeking validation from women, even to the point of destroying them. Princess Carolyn and Diane may be the biggest. Heck, I would even throw in Anna Spanakopita who was like PC, but more efficient.
@@pinkyapple333 And normally I am really bad at seeing those things! I am so used to not recognising things that aren't made blatantly obvious. So I was surprised by the "doesn't depend on people" notion. (This is not meant as an attack of sorts against the person who made this video. I don't know/remember his name.) It's mainly in the first episode(s), in which he faints/has panic attacks over nothing (as harsh as this may sound!) and is helped so much by other people and seems to also expect that this help will come.
You just reminded me of a joke from the show that I only caught when rewatching some arbitrarily picked episodes lately. Does the word "Moussaka" ring a bell for you?
Well keep in mind that he said that right after his accident, where he depended on princess Carolyn to get him out of the stunt, but she didn’t, and after he made a fool of himself when he pretended to be a feminist and had to defend Philbert, but Diane couldn’t/wouldn’t help him.
People with fearful or anxious attachment tend to over-rely on the people around them because they grew up without a 'secure base' to safely handle the challenges on their own. Its overcompensating. The answer isn't to NOT rely on people but to ask directly for what you need and develop self confidence, which is what butterscotch hear tells Bojack he absolutely can not do. Bojack is self destructive but maybe it's the only way he's learned to get his needs met because his parents didn't give a flying fuck about him unless he was the center of attention (whether in a good or toxic way).
So I’m rewatching the pilot and before the two minute mark Bojack says “I think the show is actually pretty solid for what it is, it’s not Ibsen, sure.”
Anyways that shit was in there since the beginning.
And he's just reiterated what his mother told him all his life.
She compared him to Ibsen, so now he has to. He was held to such a high degree - one he would never live up to - and now nothing will ever be good enough for him.
Really goes to show how LONG emotional trauma can remain in a person's mind.
He heard this while working on Horsin` Around, and probably even before THAT. So that's well over 20 years Beatrice reinforced his 'worthlesness'.
This show is amazing, and a great look at how trauma shapes people.
Holy hell wow just realized that
Just rewatched the first episode today after finishing the series yesterday and it was crazy he brought that up since episode one first couple minutes at that
Another crazy thing to point out. The thing that ultimately takes BJ down is his worst act leaving Sarah Lynn to die for 17 minutes. In Season 1 Episode 3 the first truly evil thing we see him do is to Sarah Lynn at the beginning of Prickly Muffin its the first of a few times BJS villian theme plays when he tells her she has to perform even if it kills her b/c only her fans will love her. Also in this same episode at the end after sleeping with Sarah Lynn & allowing her to the drugs he says "Nothing I do has consequence." Triumphantly. After seeing everything I would say Season 1 is the best Season the humor & comedy balances out the drama depressing emotional moments. Plus they set up everything here.
Did people forget that BoJack himself made a reference to Ibsen all the way back in the very first episode of the show?
I also think that the fact that Will Arnett voices Bojack and Butterscotch plays into how his father effected him, he remembers him in his own voice because what his father said to him as a child is how Bojack now speaks to himself.
the tiniest detail that fascinates me, their noses, Butterscotch's nose has outward curves to show his age, BoJack doesnt have them in his child design, but he does when he looks to the side.
So when he gets into the car, for the first few lines he never looks to the side, but as his father keeps talking, BoJack looks to the side more and more frequently, as if the one-side "conversation" is aging him. But like you said, even without picking up on this, it can still be appreciated, because it makes him look nervous at the heights of his father's speech. Masterful writing, masterful character design, masterful show.
gotta say, one of the best things abt this scene is the fact that they so perfectly nailed how it feels to be upset/on the verge of tears as your parent lectures you in the car. though that could just be a 'shit parent' specific feel, mine arent great, but this whole scene makes my heart heavy and makes me want to lower my gaze and terse my lips so that i dont cry. expertly done
I read the play (A doll's house) when I was in highschool and honestly don't remember all the details, but something I find interesting in the plot is that Nora's husband made her dance when he had his parties at their house, it's a cool detail when you compare it to the fact that Beatrice also used to do that at parties when Bojack was young. I don't think Butterscotch made her do it but it's interesting. Maybe it wasn't intended, but it's a nice duality in between Nora's and Beatrice's house dynamic.
This scene? It always gets me uncomfortable and spacey, just on habit. They...they really nailed that feeling in child BoJack
Yeah I was feeling that through the whole series. I've never set foot in L.A and I probably haven't done as many drugs as Bojack but, I relate to him on a lot of things. That's enough to make Anyone uncomfortable.
Will arnett was absolutely rolling in it due to this episode
With the part where you mention that Butterscotch is written at a 10 so that the viewer can appreciate when he’s at a 6, it makes me feel like Bojack latched onto how his father acts when at a 6. In that portion of the monologue he sounds A LOT like Bojack does throughout the series. Makes me think that Bojack was raised thinking that this behavior is good or acceptable because his father being st a 10 all the time made this behavior seem allowable and even preferred.
How bojacks face started to pay attention because when he said “it’s not her fault”
You go around the horn! The way god intended!
Bojack horseman is one of the best shows ever. So masterfully crafted, written, and always knew it’s direction. Legendary. Personally, probably my 3rd or 4th show of all time. And I honestly expect it to move up. Amazing. Thank you for the breakdown and giving even more reason as to why this show is so so perfect.
I swear every single day I find out some new detail about the show that just blows my mind
Late to the party, but here's something I noticed:
"You're actually very lucky." Was Butterscotch trying to make up for the whole situation. He was probably cursing and grumbling to himself the whole ride over, then he sees a kid who was waiting for hours finally feel relief that his only ride home finally showed up.
"Yes, yes. I see you, get in." He can't be mad at the kid for waiting because it's not his fault. In fact, Bojack has every right to be angry or sad. Butterscotch knows he would be if he were the one stuck waiting, so he knows Bojack has been wronged. However, Butterscotch being Butterscotch, he's not going to apologize and admit guilt. He's going to fill the silence in the car with a big rant about Bojack's mother/explanation for why his ride home was delayed. He wanted to cover for the wrong by shifting the blame to his mother while pulling a "life lesson" out of his ass (that he is trying to cover).
Butterscotch is specially nasty in the last part because prior to that, the subject was bojack, he was balming bojack for being born from her mother. For bojack, the apology only ends up justifying beatrice's toxic behavior while none of the accusations against him were taken back. The words seem carefully chosen by the writers for that purpose.
In a way, he’s also justifying himself and his own toxic behavior, saying that it’s “teaching” Bojack not to depend on people and that it makes someone a good parent if they neglect you and mistreat you. Abusive parents do that a lot, acting at being nice when justifying the other’s toxic behavior by saying it “teaches a lesson,” and clearly trying to get the kid to believe that lie about both parents’s abuse.
I'd love to ask the creators of the show how they construct each character and how did they plan to use them throughout the series Beatriz is such a wonderful character, with so many details placed here and there, all well connected and with a lot of meaning behind them. I'm so interested in learning that.
Would you ever do a video on the art of running jokes? Kinda like honeydew one or spaghetti strainer ones in bojack. Because theres a fine line between humor and overplayed, and I, personally, have a really hard time finding it.
If people find it funny, it's humour. You only really know once it's out there. For most people that line falls at a different place. I think the spaghetti strainer joke works because it only lasts for a season and the pay off is certainly delivered upon. The honeydew joke works because it's not used too often, and while it is something that pops up regularly, it gets itself out of the way quickly.
Your "Free Churro" video was what motivated me to watch Bojack Horseman and subsequently show it to several other people.
It quickly became my favorite show and I 110% owe that to your video.
I’m not sure what makes me happier - you catching the Ibsen and play detail and explaining it to us, or the brilliance of the writers who were so meticulous about the cohesive narrative. Anyway, please keep making these bojack videos I love them so much!! Great work ❤️
When you've actually had car rides like this with your actual dad, oops
Yuh
One thing I love in this scene is how you can see all the emotions BoJack is going through plainly writing on his face. He might not talk here, but his expressions speak volumes
I love how serious and thought provoking this monologue got even though it was only two and a half minutes long. The amount of power the writers had in this series is unmatched
13:46
14:12 I would have thought you would comment on the nature of the comment being akin to trying distance himself from the potential responsibility of his son not embodying his idea of masculinity, when he himself is responsible for not constructively teaching BoJack how. As though to feed into the moment by the end when he imparts a lesson to his son as a father, cruel though it may be. In essence unpacking it as his feeling somewhat as failing as a man by failing to help his son become a man, and thus lashing out and potentially shaming BoJack so as to prevent that by perpetuating the air of disappointment and contempt he has for his son by associating what he fears for a moment he might become with the emasculation he feels it implies.
Yeah that felt like a big missed opportunity, I'm glad that you commented on it though
I wonder how Bojack feels about his father as an adult. The whole series focused on his relationship with his mother
I don't think he cared about Butterscotch as much, and he probably broke contact with him once he reached adulthood
Well, he did imagine Secretariat was his father when he was dying, right? He clearly doesn't even see him as a real dad, even tho he internalized a bunch of shit he did/said
I think it goes to show that Bojack, as much as he despised his mom, still cared for her and somewhat relate to her. The fact that he didnt talk much about his dad nor we ever see an episode or two, dedicated for Bojack's dad, unlike Bojack's mom, prove that Bojack just didnt give a sh*t about his dad. He seen Secretariat more as a real father than his actual father (rightfully so)
In _The view from halfway down_ Bojack has a dream where all of his deceased peers host a little get together before they go through a door which represents them finally crossing over to the afterlife. And in that dream, Bojack imagines his dad as secretariat, and he constantly flips between the two modes, Secretariat shows regret for the things he did in his career, and butterscotch admits to Bojack that he really did care about him and Beatrice but never showed it. This is bojack's way of assuring himself that his parents weren't the horrible monsters they acted like. But we never actually know if butterscotch truly cared for Bojack or not, as it was just a dream and a reflection of bojack's inner thoughts.
BoJack pretty much hates Butterscotch and considered him a loser. There’s a reason Secretariat was his dad in view from halfway down.
I love love love your channel.
when butterscotch switches it doesn’t instill sympathy, it almost undermines what bojack is going through since he’s telling him how lucky he is to have been treated that way. which is evident when he screams thank you at the end. ive never felt as though it humanizes him, i’ve always felt my stomach drop. he doesn’t recognize how any of it affects bojack or how he’ll continue to internalize it, it just goes to show how selfish and prideful he is. especially after having said himself only seconds earlier that bojack was impressionable, “loose and stupid”.
I always thought about how when Butterscotch says “no, it’s not...” Bojack’s face gets a glimmer of hope and then Butterscotch continues with “her fault” so he says he doesn’t blame Beatrice, but still blames Bojack
I always thought "a doll's house" was literally that. The children's toy. I've seen some of the old and beautiful ones in museums so I thought she went to a museum. I'm so stupid 🙈
No this is the on the nose meaning that most people understand first time. It was even literally translated as Dollhouse in my country
I just assumed that it was a way of saying she met with her female friends and "they put ideas in her head". I guess that doesn't make sense tho since she's Never hinted at having friends at all
What I really love about Butterscotch's 'Thaaaaaaank yoooou?' at the end is the pause just before it. He was done ranting and raving and since he is such a magnificent douchenozzle he expects gratitude, not just for the substance of what he said but also for saying it.
I find it fascinating that this whole monologue butter scotch is constantly complaining about noise whether it be from from his wife's crying to bojack's many interruptions on sunday while butterscotch in this scene is the loudest and most distracting part of the monologue whether it be from him nearly hitting multiple vehicles to his narcissism as he is tying to make himself the villain but also trying to hide the spotlight from bojack do to his blaming of every other character in the episode for his problems until he realizes he needs to try and be a parent
I love that you made this video because I’ve loved Butterscotch’s monologue. I learned so much about his character in that moment.
“Your mother is having another one or her episodes”
Savage: okay let me talk about this for 5 minutes and breakdown everything that nobody else can see about this.
For real your good man.
Am I the only one that would have loved to have seen a butterscotch episode? Not to excuse his character for the damage he caused, but just to understand him more I feel like there could have been a lot more complexity into the character than that met the eye. In his mind he clearly sees himself as a hero who has been cheated of his dreams because of a family he never truly wanted much like Beatrice
Yeah i always thought that it would be interesting to watch that the premise of the show "the only villain is pain, and how people deal with it" would be great with the MEANER characters. Like Bojack's dad or the father of Diane.
Bojack has always been so engaging from its great writing :) i love the series
I don't realize how much I look forward to your videos until you upload
Who else thought that Beatrice went with some friends to go see a literal toy doll house?
It says a lot that Butterscotch is also voiced by Will Arnett, same as Bojack. I know in animation they reuse voice actors all the time, but having Bojack and his DAD share the exact same voice actor with a near-identical tone/register? Almost like Bojack took after his dad (sadly)
"You're actually very lucky for [insert thing that's actually horrid]!" oh no the flashbacks
I only have a single dissent:
Hannibal was a doctor of medicine. The third, distinct, possibility was that he did it as an act of vengeful defiance.
This is most likely the intention of the writers. He was a psychiatrist, he would know about that drug interaction, and the way he is saying it definitely shows that he selected those items particularly out of spite.
When I saw you uploaded a video about Bojack again, I was (at the very least) super excited to watch! These are always really awesome videos, and I connect with them probably the best of your other videos because I’m totally engrossed in this series. Keep up the awesome work!
Butterscotch has a "I am the hero" mindset while Bojack has a "I need to be the hero" mindset
This show is so impinged onto my heart. Thank God for everyone who created this
I re-watch this monologue alll the time, it's so tightly packed with meaning and jokes and clever characterization, just like the rest of the show. tysm for making a video on it!!
1. this is my favorite episode of any television show ever
2. I love all of your analyses, but I think there's one thing you could've talked about more. This is the opening of the episode about Bojack's mom's funeral. You mentioned how the focus of the scene was Bojack observing, but I'd say that the main subject of the monologue was Beatrice. We never see Beatrice in this episode, dead or in a flashback, but the episode is totally centered around her. Butterscotch is mentioned just a couple times in the eulogy, yet the opening of the show is a monologue by him. I think it's just really interesting.
14:13 To be honest, I was disappointed that you didn't comment on this when you managed to beautifully deconstruct the rest of the monologue. A simple "I don't want to get into this" would have been better than a dismissal of any deeper meaning because there's definitely meaning behind those lines and there are a good couple of ways to interpret it.
One way is the most obvious, a queer interpretation. Since Butterscotch such a narcissist, he's projecting his own masculine insecurities onto Bojack. He very distinctly repeats the line "pearls are for ladies" while the camera is zoomed in on him with Bojack out of shot. This is indicative that the second time he says it is meant to be a reminder to himself more than a lesson to impart on Bojack which implies that he has had personal experience with trying on pearl necklaces. Perhaps as a forway into femininity that was then shot down by a society vehemently against anything outside of gender conformity as is standard for the 50s and 60s. With that in mind, it isn't farfetched to say that he might be queer, but repressing it due to misogny and homophobia, a phenomenon that's common among trans women in particular. The ramifications of that interpretation concerning formation of Identity is interesting to say the least. In Butterscotch's eyes, to be a woman is to be inferior (seen with how he treats and talks about Beatrice). As a capital M Man who wants to be taken seriously, of course he would reject femininity in this way, and teach Bojack to do the same. After all, what Bojack does reflects on him. If his son grows up queer, then Butterscotch fails as an example of respectable masculinity for Bojack, and he fails as a father.
This leads into the next interptation, something much less sensitive and more common than a queer interpretation: one of Toxic Masculinity. Butterscotch, as a father figure, represents the masculinity that Bojack is destined to follow. This is obvious with the decision to have Arnold voice both Bojack and Butterscotch as well as their parallel actions, the most prominent of which is what they do after sleeping with women (both give their one-night stands fake numbers and offer to pay for abortions at the possibility of a baby). Out of all the lines in the monologue, these lines are the ones that portray this parallel the most because Butterscotch is directly projecting his masculine insecurities onto Bojack as said before. This leads Bojack to grow up to be like his dad in presentation if not in personality as well, and to be just as obsessed about his masculine image as his father.
Sometimes good writing is just good writing indeed. However, if good writing could be as easily explained away as "This character is a man with hate in his heart" then you might as well have interpreted the entire monologue with just that line because It's ALL good writing. To cop out of interpretating any slice of it due to whatever reason is a shame.
I’ve also heard that “pearls” can refer to semen. Under that interpretation, he could be saying, “Jizz is for ladies.” But even that contributes to the thought that he has a repressed element to his identity.
Will Arnett is the VA, but other than that your paragraph is spot on!!
This is really good and adds a great depth to butterscotch as a character. This episode made me interested to know more about his childhood and early life- it would have been interesting to see the causes of his abusive, narcisstic self.
"Butterscotch may be a trans woman" is not a take I was expecting today tbh
Honestly I love you and your way of explaining to me why I love shows, while making me love them more
Me, a Norwegian: Oh yeah, I recognize the name "Ibsen" becasue horsemother mentioned it in a throwaway line one other time...
Been binge-watching your Bojack videos these past few days, so imagine my surprise and delight to find this up. Thanks for yet another great dialogue dive. Learned a lot.
There is actually symbolism to the pearl clutching line, Beatrice wore a pearl necklace both times she met Butterscotch (the first time and after she was pregnant.) The first time, she toys with her necklace timidly when Butterscotch mentions his own mother's passing, and remarks that she resembled her (the diamond.) He's basically trying to warn Bojack (in a cruel, sarcastic way) not to use the fact that he didn't have a proper mother figure growing up as an excuse for why he's messed up. If you think about it, since Butterscotch was just a baby when his own mother passed (he said he only ever knew her from paintings), *his* "mommy was his daddy." /He/ is the one who grew up with messed up ideas about gender, and you see it in the way he perceives Beatrice and women in general.
It's fucking genius.
Every time i see another bojack vid from you I’m like YESSSSSSSSS
What a fantastic video. I didn't actually know about many of these details and it just adds more layers to the infinite layers of why this show is an absolute masterpiece.
Not only was this a fantastic breakdown, I really feel like I learned something. I mean, I always do, but something about this breakdown and the nuance of the writing really struck me, so thank you!
Please keep making videos about Bojack Horseman, somehow you always manage to make me like it even more, and I already think it is the GOAT. I hadn't noticed the Ibsen play thing untill now, and I loved it
I didn’t know that thing about silence of the lambs, that’s awesome
ive seen all of bojack at least 5 or 6 times, and yet i learned / discovered so many new things watching this video. wow. just when i think i've seen it all, this show is the gift that keeps on giving. thank you for this incredible video