Some important things I want to re-iterate from this video: There is a very high chance that the majority of things I talked about here are coincidences, and there is also a very high chance that some of the things I spoke about, may be forgotten entirely by the time the team got around to writing BL4. Regardless, it's fun to play around with these theories. It's also important to remember that they're just that.... Theories ;)
It's funny that the watcher saves the people who spell Zane Zarpdon Athena Nyraid Emily. Lol sorry I'm a Zane main in borderlands 3 and found this funny.
I think you are forgetting a few things about the Watcher and its powers that can factor into this game, and why, if possible Emily Swann as a Siren would return to Elpis: The Watcher has only been seen on, and concerned with things involving Elpis directly and appears to actually live there. The Vault on Elpis contained a relic providing knowledge or foreknowledge in the Vault, but also lots of eridian technology to be scavenged and reverse engineered like Atlas originally did on Promethea. The Watcher has the ability to "Anoint" people like it did Zarpedon & the Ascended Lost Legionnaires. The Watcher was shown slowing down time in the scenes stopping Jack, & later the Raiders, from shooting Zarpedon & Athena respectively. The Timekeeper was a threat to the Eridians known to Nyriad's during her lifetime and appears to be humanoid & quasi-corporate. Corporations harvesting technology like the Watchers can account for all his shown abilities. The threat to Elips posed by it being Phaselocked could have compelled anyone empowered by the Watcher to come to its aid.
Sidenote: Lilith was not a fan of the Watcher in TPS, and not powerful enough to do anything about The Watcher stopping her from executing Athena at the time. But the power ups from the Eridium consumption in FFS, and all the power Tyreen leeched from the Rampager, Destroyer, and Eridium made her powerful enough to phase Elpis, literally the home of the Watcher. Seems kind of personal. She literally "shattered causality" according to the Seer, and Kairos's shield is a metaphor for that given it was a place an Eridian threat had been confined. A lost thread from FFS is that in Sirentology they establish that Lilith and Tannis worked together to help her understand & acquire Angel's powers. The new Siren having Steele's lines up with the Swann timing, but that still leaves Nyriad/Tyreen's power looking for a home.
@@Blazenov only crack in that logic is that the Watcher didn't save Nyriad, she just mentioned the Watcher observed and didn't interfere in the sacrifice of Billions of Eridians to seal the Destroyer. It didn't save anyone. Also switching back and forth between first & last names is convenient Tungsteena Zarpedon Athena (no surname to my knowledge) Emily Swann Even if you count Nyriad first banes is TANE, last names Z__S. Oh an @piotrdworowy183 are you referring to the note from 0ne, that helped Zer0 against Sparky Flynt? Zane being Assassin 0ne only became a thing with the Director's Cut Multiverse character models. His dialogue upon meeting Zer0 is a good hint at them not being that familiar in the lore of BL3 upon release. "I know that fella, we go to the same assassin bars!"
I think something to consider with the watcher being present when Athena was going to be executed, is that the commander Lilith dlc for bl2 had a voice line between brick and Lilith taking about what happened. It mentioned that no one else could hear what the watcher was saying except Lilith, so it more likely be the watcher saving Lilith by preventing her from doing down the wrong path which may have lead to her not teleporting the moon away from Pandora preventing the vault opening. So for niriad, zarpadon and Athena/Lilith, the watcher has only ever been present when it came to sealing the destroyer. Which then would also imply more serious intentions for Emily swan too with her potentially playing a part keeping Pandora and elpis separated.
I’m pretty sure what maya means by “they don’t stay the same” is in reference to the powers of a siren. Like there are always 6 sirens (7 technically but let’s ignore niriad for now) but the powers in rotation for the 6 isn’t always the same powers, so something different coming would be in reference to a new power Emily swain might have
I think this makes the most sense tbh for both gameplay and lore. Like how is mayas phaselock special when Amara basically has the same thing. It’s best explained through sirens having small differences and changes in strength of the powers (similar to how maya was relatively weak with her power compared to Troy)
@@GnightPunpunAmara technically doesn’t have the same powers as maya. Maya can generate small inter-dimensional bubbles around objects, manipulate people’s minds and bodies, and utilize slag. Amara has the ability of astral projection and can generate small orbs that emit an aura of energy that heal or hurt. Their personalities reflect their powers. Amara is more physically aggressive and overconfident, so she has a more fist oriented version of her power. Maya is intelligent and pursues knowledge, so she has more mind oriented abilities. The utilization of slag/eridium can also be shown through personalities. Those who have an aptitude to consuming eridium seek power despite the means. Maya does stuff through merit and Amara doesn’t like taking shortcuts for strength. She takes pride in her power so why would she tarnish it by taking the equivalent of siren space roids.
@@GnightPunpun I think the narrative they decided to spin starting with Bl2 is that siren abilities manifest based on the sirens personality or past traumas. Maya was kept caged up by a cult. Amara never skips arm day. Angel and Tannis both spent an excessive amount of time with machines. The Calypso twins were influencers (phase"leech")
I have a different theory about The Watcher and its more so related to The Seer and The Timekeeper. Imma just copy and paste it from the server where i crafted the theory on. It probably has a lot of holes in it that I dont see yet but uh yea imma just paste it: [...] The Watcher is closely related to The Seer btw, they're like, always communicating with one another. The Seer sees all that has and ever will be, and from what I gathered, The Watcher interrupts whenever the timeline is about to be broken. So like, The Seer warns The Watcher about events that are threatening the timeline. The Seer sees everything because it indirectly controlls every being, but not sirens, sirens are above the laws of nature, they are capable of disrupting timelines. And in the last BL3 DLC, where we meet The Seer, he tells us that Liliths action of phasewalking the entire moon elsewhere has "shattered" the timeline. At the end of The Pre-Sequel, The Watcher was able to intervene because it wasnt a siren who fired the shots at Athenas. Lilith was merely the one giving the execution command, so The Watcher was able to step in and keep the timeline alive. but at the end of BL3 when she phasewalks the entire moon; thats all her doing, she's the one who had the idea, she's the one who does it. and she's a siren so thats above and beyond of what The Watcher could possibly interfere with because like i said, sirens cant be controlled. The Watcher kept the timeline alive at the end of The Pre-Sequel, but at the end of BL3 Lilith shattered it. My theory is that The Watcher wouldve intervened there for sure too if he could, but she's a siren so he couldnt. And now its up to The Timekeeper to restore the timeline. So what I'm getting at is that I believe the intent of The Watcher was to keep the timeline alive, under the command of The Seer, to not trigger the worst case scenario of releasing The Timekeeper.
This is very good. I really like that one. LITERALY got one kinda overshooted idea... One of comments below says "This theory would require Gearbox to care about the pre-sequel"... now with your theory i heard in my mind "If eridians are like guardians of timeline and our main characters (sirens) are messing with that, could there be even reason for releasing pre-sequel AFTER borderlands 2?"?? Like, do you guys think there could be possibility, they released a PRE-SEQUEL even named like that with intention to intervene with timeline of mainstory?? Maybe even hide something by doing that?? Now I definitely need to go to sleep... XDDDD
I don't think it's a good idea to make a playable vault hunter such is important character. Because they would need to be a active part of the story, if you play as another VH how would that work considering the VHS interaction with the worth should be able to be copy pasted across the 4 of them
A part of me love all the speculation and theory crafting, but then the other part of me doesn't because more often than not we end up disappointed because the Theory Story is better then what is actually executed. lol
6:58 I may have misunderstood what you meant but you don't have to be born a siren to be one, whenever a siren dies someone else becomes a siren regardless of age.
@@okagisamaI’m not actually sure it was random, out of everyone in all those planets angels power happens to go to one the the people she’s been helping throughout the second game. And not only did it go to one of the crimson raiders, it went to one that is arguably the best choice in the raiders for a machine focused siren power
@@okagisamapersonally I think the current power holder has some influence on where it goes, almost like they subconsciously pick who they want to have the powers
I may be talking out of my rear end but I read on a Reddit post that sirens are the only beings in borderlands that have free will, like their destinies can change and they live the life they choose. I also heard in a video that maybe the time keeper was created by eridians to protect the timeline from dangerous things. When I put these together I think maybe the watcher wanted Emily to get off of Elpis becaude the watcher knew that the moon would cross paths with the timekeeper at some point and maybe the timekeeper wants to kill sirens because they’re the only beings that threaten his timeline
borderlands best writing and lore telling is done through echo logs in all of the games. If they concentrated more on that to tell a story (somewhat like bioshock) they'd get so much more credit. Some of the echo logs in BL3 were so excellent and had me forget for a second that I just listened to a guy talk about turds for 2 hours.
SAME THING FOR FALLOUT!! All the REAL lore is on the computers. One of them in 4 specifically states that Vault-Tec launched the bomb that caused everyone else to follow suit.
I think the timekeeper is Roland. Wild theory but so far the promotion material seems to obscure his face as well as the secret text at the end of the trailer saying “invader cut me open” and “his hand on your neck” reminding me a lot of the scene when handsome Jack kills Roland and slaps the control collar on Lilith. It also says “time kept is brain lost” which could allude to him being kept alive is making him evil. Like I said it’s a far out theory but the fact the time keeper seemingly has some sort of connection to time travel could explain how it’s him.
I've seen a few people mention this so far, but I'm not sure how likely it'd be, if at all. I'm leaning towards there being a 2% chance this is the case.
She also has a similar color scheme to the Watcher and I saw in a still from the last video about her that she has tiny little wings that look a lot like parts of The Watcher. There is no way this isn't intentional. If this Siren doesn't end up being Emily, I'm throwing my Xbox out the window
So a few things, i dont think sirens are usually born with their powers, the one instance i do know is that tyreen / troy were but i think that was an exception rather than the rule, for instance (this is also from a comic so it might not be cannon) lilith got her powers from that lady on pandora, so emily getting "made" into a siren isnt that strange. I also believe that what maya could have meant by "they don't always stay the same" is that the powers arent always the same set of 6. Maya specifically said 6 and i dont think that she was referencing 7, however i think she was saying that maybe the powers may not be the same, for instance maybe the next 6 wont have a leech or womt have a Firehawk (we know it will but just for instance), i do find this weird though because there are atleast 2 powers we dont know?
Maybe what mayas saying “there’s always six but aren’t always the same”. Maybe there isn’t just six siren powers but more. Unless you give your power to someone else like maya did to ava, the next siren would just get a random power from the many options
The lore book also kinda confirms that the watcher’s war wasn’t bl3. It questions if bl3 was the war and says something like, “another war is always on the horizon”
Also regarding the watcher... The villain of BL4 is "Timekeeper" and it seems as if the Watcher has some kind of ability to see through time. Does that actually mean anything? I dunno, Imma leave it to the smarter people to figure out.
I believe the watcher is only here to make sure the timeline follows its course. As we know, Sirens are unpredictable and don’t follow the chosen course of events (as said by the overseer). Let me explain Nyriad (a siren): Had to leech the eridians to seal the destroyer and the Watcher was there to make sure that happened. Zarpedon (controlled by the vault): Maybe Zarpedon was never meant to open the vault and when she opened the vault, she had the same ability as sirens, where she doesn’t follow the specific timeline. Zarpedon wasn’t supposed to “die” in the beginning of the game so the watcher intervened. But at the end of the game, she fulfilled her duty, and died. Athena (not a siren): At the end of the game, it’s Lilith who orders Athena’s execution. Something that was never supposed to happen. And because Lilith (a siren) doesn’t follow the timeline like we said before, the watcher had to intervene and save Athena. We know the overseer has been mind controlling people to push the events of the games in a certain direction, the watcher knows this and is either going against him, or believes that altering the timeline is the only way to save the future. This goes into another theory of the Watcher being from the future, but I won’t get into that.
I think you are losing it and need some sleep 😂 😜great story telling and connecting the dots. Emily Swan got hyped up before BL3 and going into this I'm like here we go again. Want feelings it back then and that hasn't changed yet. That said, it's a better tie in than fran's frogurt shop 😂
I hate the idea of a siren being "made", the best part about the siren lore is that they're rare, mysterious and very old. So the idea of them being "made" just makes them feel way less important. Im hoping maya just meant that the abilities may just express themselves differently depending on who inherits them, like how ava used phaselock compared to how maya used it.
Oh Epic... great video and you came SO CLOSE to seeing all the connections. I really thought you had it when you started in on the anagram, so let me throw in a couple more clues. You mentioned that the Watcher is protecting people and events that are significant. Almost like they are "shielding" them from harm. In TPS when Jack tries to kill Zarpadon, we see the watcher "Rise to the Occassion" and create a "barrier" between the bullets and their target. From that point forward it's like Zarpadon is living on "Borrowed Time" until she is no longer necessary to protect Elpis and Pandora at which point "Death Follows Close". The Watcher is then "Like a Ghost" until the Crimson Raiders are ready to kill Athena when he is once again "Ready for Action" and serves as her "Salvation" with "Nerves of Steel". The rest of the time, the Watcher seems to just have eyes and ears everywhere. Almost like they are able to be in more than one place at once or utilize advanced technology to surveil all the events taking place that could impact their mission. Given this "Commitment" and the fact that the Watcher is absent from the only game so far where Zane plays a prominent role, I think it's pretty obvious that The Watcher is none other than "Our Man Flynt". ;)
Epic, I feel like I’ve been watching your videos for such a long time it’s been kind of jarring to hear a call to action to hit 60k as I figured you were there long ago. Congrats on the milestone brotha
Something I find interesting is that Elpis (I don't remember the name of the moon) was saved by the watcher by letting the presequel VH's finish off Zarpedon. and letting elpis continue to exist leads to the end of BL3 and the discovery of the hidden planet of BL4 (Did the watcher do this on purpose? Will this be more important in the future? I don't know)
This is all fascinating but I think the new Siren vault hunter is a brand new character and has nothing to do with the pre sequel theory but we're just going to have to wait and see I'm excited for Borderlands 4
Funny, I think a story about someone hunting and keeping the sirens in stasis would be cool. Like an antag learned how powerful they are and if they get rid of them the powers just pop up somewhere else, so… just put em in stasis, that way the person is still around but the power is in check.
I hope they don’t downplay the siren lore we know, by “making” a siren. The lore of sirens be able to bestow their thread (ie angel and tannis, and maya and Ava) or the tread being sent into the ether and choosing a girl to be a siren (Lilith, maya, amara, Tyreen etc) I’m hoping that if it is Emily, it should be Commandant Steele’s siren “thread” she gets when she gets sent to pandora, we also don’t know how young Emily is in the events of tps. Maybe shes a young child and it’s easier to absorb the tread that way and the watcher knew. We also don’t know when she left Elpis, most likely when commandant Steele died and her thread was available. As we don’t know what makes a siren maybe it’s a molecular thing and the watcher sensed it and sent her to pandora to absorb the thread. Time skip and now she’s older, but I’d also like if she was the seventh siren and her own thing separate from “Emily” I’d love to know more about her (the seventh siren). The fact Nyriad sealed herself because her power was insane, i mean absorbing all the eridians and sealing the destroyer and dying alone on nekro to make sure her siren thread wouldn’t attach itself to a baby girl, until tyhpon had tyreen. But going all that way because she feared her power to seal it then at the end of it being even more scared of the seventh? Whew the seventh must be insane.
Emily Swan being an artificial Siren created by the Watcher could work when you consider that human technology in the Borderland Universe can closely mimic Siren abilities. The caveat being that the technology is expensive, hence why Lady Aurelia Hammerlock is one of the only people we see utilize it. Now Troy wasn't the smartest individual so him questioning if she was a Siren could be chalked up to that, but Aurelia does boast about how expensive her nanobot technology was so could be a bit of both. That being said if human technology, even that which has been reverse engineered from Eridians, is already getting close to mimicking a Siren imagine what an actual Eridian (or the closest thing we have to one) could do.
i think your theory is spot on its very plausible given all the lore. im super hyped for 4 now im honestly not TOO worried about the game i think it will still be good overall and it seems like theyve really opened the stage up to expand the universe and lay out more lore and maybe even character expansion with the whole "gather as many vault hunters as you can" thing. wait what if they introduce non playable but new vault hunters?
The characters think the Watcher is only watching, but... we know that it doesn't merely watch. Perhaps it actively plays a role in these characters' success, even if it only "watches" them.
Saying this before the watching but it would make so much sense for the watcher to save Emily swan because if she’s a playable character during the “war” then she’s gonna play a veeerrry significant role
It certainly is possible considering tannis became a siren later in life. But to capture the siren essence and black mail someone with it? You'd think that they'd just gather siren sparks and make a team of loyalists. Interestingly, in borderlands 3 when you kill the eridian enemies, their spirits fly up out of their body and conjoin with another one to enhance it. So what if that's what is happening with the sirens? The siren spirit, likely originally eridian based, found a way to transfer their essence to the weaker minded human race once whatever extinction event took place across the universe. Perhaps the 7th siren wiped out everyone else and as a last ditch effort the 6 used some device to seal away the 7th causing their spirits to displace?
Let’s play a bit of devil’s advocate here. If the Watcher was specifically protecting people who are trying to save the world, then the characters that we the players play in BL1 to BL3 (ie all the Vault Hunters), would be protected too. But we lost Roland and Maya. So there are inconsistencies there. And from a gameplay perspective, we the player would never be in danger or face a character death. Lol. However, we can also be realistic and say that we never had a fully fleshed out and planned narrative at the release from BL1, and the developers are doing their best to continue the story with the release of each game. If the Watcher theory ends up being true, then yeah, there will be massive plot holes that don’t really make sense (eg the Roland + Maya issue). But also we’re getting some element of Timekeeping in BL4, so maybe they’ll use that as an excuse to “correct” some wrongs and resurrect Roland + Maya with altered time. I think that’s likely the only way to save face after the horrible execution of the Ava and Maya narrative from BL3 that essentially cemented all of our existing hatred for the Ava character. If she can somehow redeem herself in BL4, at least by resurrecting Maya perhaps, it would go some way to restoring faith in their fans. The Watcher’s interplay with time in BL4 could present some course correcting opportunities to the developers.
They have knowledge of everything that will be, they aren't protecting roland and Maya because they know that their deaths are necessary to the ultimate end game. It's not as simple as save the good guy, its save the timeline, however that may come to pass
From the last titles of the franchise from announcement trailer to release is around 5 months. So if you count from the last trailer it would be May. If by earlier announcement even earlier. All borderlands come out September or October, but tiny Tina wonderlands released in March.
Perfect theories, but we have a way of making things line up with what we desire to believe in. Gearbox does not care for established lore and will most likely create a story that loosely holds anything together but is enough to make people speculate, like they do every time. Sales will be good, and they'll want that to continue, so everything will open and end on vague notes like it always does
If you think about the watcher knows what’s gonna happen because it’s shown that eridian tech can make you see in the future like jack did and the watcher might be the king/queen of the eridian race so it can obviously see in the future to it knows what’s gonna happen possibly that’s why the watcher tells Lilith to get as many vault hunters as she can and but the watcher might be keeping these people alive because of that fact but also cause they will play a big role in helping and it connects to zarpadan she had purple looking powers from eridian tech which might be traced back to the watcher healing the girl and she has purple colored siren powers because she consumed eridian powers when she was healed so she became a siren due to the fact she had to get this energy to stay alive and the eridian knew the world needed more soldiers for this war
I hope they don't do that no mmos I hope they keep borderlands with 4 player coop and single player in future games we don't need live service! To much of that crap already!
If u guys read the comics of borderland it show a siren that can control animals but I can't remember what the color is but I'm pretty sure it's pinkish in the book.
I feel like the watcher is special the one guardian in BL3 says that sirens are unpredictable. But the watcher seems to have a special connection with Sirens maybe the watcher is the one that makes the Sirens or at least chooses who gets their powers unless they are trapped in a vault like Nyriad or they choose like Maya did. The watcher knows the sirens they watch them and either protects them or leads them to reach there true potential
My theory was always that the Watcher protected Zarpedon the first time so Jack could meet Lilith and Roland, become enemies with them and then get killed the vault hunters.
I'm running on this idea that handsome Jack actually is the hero and we're gonna get some time travel BS. Bet the warrior is actually the only thing that can kill the destroyer or something
What if when maya said they're not all the same she was mening like the powers between them, because her powers were different from when troy was using them and also different from when ava was using them
Even though people said that gearbox denied it, I still theorized that the new siren from borderlands 4 is a aged up Ava, and if I’m proven wrong, then hopefully she appears again and is given better writing
I have a theory about the great war. I think there is a bigger threat than just the vault monsters and time keepers and they are the leader of all of the monsters in the vault. Once they come back all the vaults will open at once forming an intergalactic army which will require all the vault hunters to face. So I think that the Great War will be in borderlands 5
this may sound farfetched but because each name makes ZANE i think that Zane's clone/hologram might be The clone/hologram might be The Watcher, as it would be the perfect disguise for it to literally "Watch" now the other theory that we may have to consider is time of saving so my best guess as to the order is Nyriad, Emily, Zarpadon, and Athena making the name NEZA or if in Borderlands 4 there's a confirmed 5th that's in between Zarpadon and Athena that can be an H it would make the name NEZHA
You're overseeing something here. If The Watcher was protecting Zarpedon after saving Emily we can assume that the reason they urged Emily and Annie to flee the planet was because they believed Zarpedon was going to destroy Elpis, meaning that if Emily didn't flee his work of saving her would be all for nothing. Plus assuming he is siding with people who do good, if Zarpadon was victorious a lot of the later events of the series just wouldn't have happened. The watcher believed Zarpadon was on the right path but later in the story changed their mind for some unknown reason and let her die. The one issue with my idea here I can see being brought up is how if the watcher believed Zarpadon would have destroyed Elpis, how would the war needing vault hunters happen in the first place? Why would he save Emily if Zarpadon removed the threat? I think the war was perhaps an inevitability, something doomed to happen no matter what. Im not sure but I think Zarpadons Invasion being the reason The Watcher urged Emily to flee makes sense, as I doubt he wouldn't know about it.
She says there are always 6, but we know theres 7. What if that means there can only be 6 sirens at a time... But there are 7 siren powers. Maybe hinting that which siren powers are "spawned" at a given time are different. Maybe the watcher forced the 7th sirens powers into emily, and because she wasnt spawned a siren she wouldnt have an yrge to go to pandora?
I’ve also noticed that all the other sirens have pure blue tattoos, Troy and “Emily” don’t Also with the watcher saving zarpedon, I’m wondering she was a siren too, with being able to use that staff she had. And I’ve always wondered where Athena went any why she had few mentions in 2 or 3
tbh what is even zane doing on elpis/kairos? like how did he get on elpis/kairos when he's supposed to be present on pandora during the whole scene of lilith stopping elpis from smashing into pandora and opening the great vault ? i know that the game is not out yet but it just doesn't really add up
The only thing I can think of is that the watcher has protected those that it deems a safety for the world. But it could also be protecting those that it could see be a siren potential so that they could keep the world safe only saving those that it deems good in the world and not power hungry.
I like to think that the commander of the Lost legion she saw more than handsome Jack's rise to power she saw what the future of borderlands would be she knew about the twins, she knew about Pandora's Moon, she knew that one known as Lilith would teleport the moon away from Pandora so she thought by destroying the Moon it would keep the Great vault closed off forever even if it means destroying Pandora as well but the watcher other plans
Sir, this video should be tweeted to Randy Pitchford, if anything, in hopes that he at least see it and comment in any way on it, this theory not only is logically based in evidence, but also would make BL4 so much better finally giving us the beginning of the end, (the war is coming, question is will it be in the main game, DLC's, or is this game just a lead up to a bigger finale?), I'm excited to see what happens with the story.
I think this whole theory is way too big brain for Gearbox. They proved in Borderlands 3 that they were willing to disregard previous Borderlands lore entirely and just throw whatever together because "funny goofy". I don't think they will include much of previous Borderlands lore at all in the 4th, I think they will stay as far away from it as possible with a few hints here and there. Remember, Borderlands 4 is meant to be a "soft reboot". Whatever was important in previous Borderlands games likely won't matter in this one. I'd go as far as to say that the 4th will conclude with the Timekeeper doing some time shit and the whole timeline getting reset, officially taking borderlands 4 from a soft reboot, to an official reboot of the franchise.
what if the watcher is gathering female vault hunters to replace a siren when she die immediatly , maybe the watcher know a trick to garanty passing the siren power to another person. So it have a bunch of replacer when one die during the war
So correct me if I’m wrong. But I’m pretty sure the watcher making someone a siren would be almost against lore? If the watcher is an euridian? Because the og phase leech siren talks about how neither the euridians nor the sirens themselves knew what sirens were. Only that they were connected in some way? Idk just makes me think it’s not the watchers doing? Maybe the watcher just had a feeling or could see or “watch” the course of randomness that steels sirens power would take? Like an observer but not something it could interfere with?
Side theory: Reason why the vault hunters are so boring looking in this one, it's cause at the end of the game the war begins and we make our own vault hunters using a character creator
That would be a huge departure from the style of the game/story telling. Not saying its a bad theory, with how much customizing you can do already, but I dont see them going that route due to already established styles.
Yeah nah, we‘ll have probably better cosmetics but they literally said the vaulthunters will be involved in the story. That by itself pretty much confirms they are set characters.
@iNSANELYSMART409 That's why I said end of the game, cause for this to even happen they'd have one of the sirens somehow allow for infinite sirens. Plus that would allow cosmetic sales and even skill trees to be sold separately
1 thing about bl4 too is I think we’ll be getting customization just like Wonderlands meaning even if we’ve never met Emily Swan WE get to decide what she looks like
I doubt it'll be as in-depth as changing a character's face or body, though. I definitely think there will be more customization than head/skin/body, but I feel like the characters themselves are set in stone, since they're meant to actually play a part in the story this time.
I think Maya's voice line in DLC 4 is intentional and refering to a new Siren ability we haven't seen. Gearbox most likely knew what BL4s Siren's powers were going to be before they had a villian. I would put money on a new Siren power in BL4
Something that has tickled my brain for a little while now... The Watcher clearly has knowledge of the future. Why else would it know the War is coming, that we're going to need as many Vault Hunters as possible, etc. Despite Sirens being uncontrollable (acausal, as per the Seer), it might even have known Emily would (randomly?) inherit some Siren's power, if she wasn't made into an artificial Siren that is. But HOW does the Watcher know of these future events? Well... we do know of a being that has to do with time. The Timekeeper. Is the Watcher working with the Timekeeper? Is the watcher betraying the Timekeeper? Or does it know about the future through some other means? EDIT: Just wanted to add, "causality" is a term used in astronomy to basically indicate time-travel. Faster Than Light (FTL) travel, or just information travelling faster than light or through time would break causality (events being witnessed before they actually happen, for example). This, and the comments from the Seer that Lilith has shattered the timeline can be food for thought, though I don't know what it all means.
Only mid way through the video here, I like this theroy it makes complete sense however I don’t think the watcher made Emily a siren he healed her because I assume he knew that she WOULD be a siren one day, and we know sirens can become sirens later on in life (Ava tanis etc) so I think the watcher knew that she was going to become a siren one day and healed her so that would happen,two more things this lines up perfectly with the siren from the comic who had the ability to control beasts (her ability’s are purple/pink and the siren from bl4 tattoos are purple/pink) this makes sense because the siren from comic probably dies just as Emily reaches pandora and the other thing I feel like her mother would mention if she randomly got tattoos after the watcher was there
Finished the video some of this theroy is kinda incorrect now and I may be missing some info for this but I still believe this is true and if you do see this (doubt you will seeing how there’s 100s of comments lol) I think this is really valuable information
"Mechanical crypt" - The Time Keeper was clearly standing in front of a vault (crypt) that was mechanical. It wasn't a stone vault like all the others we've seen. Also, we have no idea about the gender of the Time Keeper, right? We are just assuming it's a male.
I got a different impression of the Calypso Twins. I thought they were great villians. They were douchy to the max, extremely psychotic, and about as evil as you could get. I just LOVE Borderlands, I've been playing it since the first one released, and even though there ARE plot holes, I still love each one for soemthing different. In BL3, it was all the extra abilities of the weapons you got, and I just liked the bad guys. 🤷🏻♂️ Maybe I'm just biased. 🤣
Some important things I want to re-iterate from this video: There is a very high chance that the majority of things I talked about here are coincidences, and there is also a very high chance that some of the things I spoke about, may be forgotten entirely by the time the team got around to writing BL4.
Regardless, it's fun to play around with these theories. It's also important to remember that they're just that.... Theories ;)
It's funny that the watcher saves the people who spell Zane
Zarpdon
Athena
Nyraid
Emily.
Lol sorry I'm a Zane main in borderlands 3 and found this funny.
@@outcomekami8268Zane is the 7th siren!
Nice Easter egg even if it's not true good theory, I'm the same way I don't believe in coincidences so probably true
I think you are forgetting a few things about the Watcher and its powers that can factor into this game, and why, if possible Emily Swann as a Siren would return to Elpis:
The Watcher has only been seen on, and concerned with things involving Elpis directly and appears to actually live there.
The Vault on Elpis contained a relic providing knowledge or foreknowledge in the Vault, but also lots of eridian technology to be scavenged and reverse engineered like Atlas originally did on Promethea.
The Watcher has the ability to "Anoint" people like it did Zarpedon & the Ascended Lost Legionnaires.
The Watcher was shown slowing down time in the scenes stopping Jack, & later the Raiders, from shooting Zarpedon & Athena respectively.
The Timekeeper was a threat to the Eridians known to Nyriad's during her lifetime and appears to be humanoid & quasi-corporate. Corporations harvesting technology like the Watchers can account for all his shown abilities.
The threat to Elips posed by it being Phaselocked could have compelled anyone empowered by the Watcher to come to its aid.
Sidenote: Lilith was not a fan of the Watcher in TPS, and not powerful enough to do anything about The Watcher stopping her from executing Athena at the time. But the power ups from the Eridium consumption in FFS, and all the power Tyreen leeched from the Rampager, Destroyer, and Eridium made her powerful enough to phase Elpis, literally the home of the Watcher. Seems kind of personal. She literally "shattered causality" according to the Seer, and Kairos's shield is a metaphor for that given it was a place an Eridian threat had been confined.
A lost thread from FFS is that in Sirentology they establish that Lilith and Tannis worked together to help her understand & acquire Angel's powers. The new Siren having Steele's lines up with the Swann timing, but that still leaves Nyriad/Tyreen's power looking for a home.
That whole “ZANE” thing… Unintentionally or not, that’s so stupidly funny that it fits borderlands perfectly.
Well they kinda hinted Zane in Borderlands 2 and its last DLC, his surname is Flynt,and there is na audiolog in I think Wam Bam Island DlC about him.
@@piotrdworowy183they hinted all the bl3 VHs in commander Lilith dlc tho
@@dxtrum I was not sure if all , I remembered Zane, that's why I wrote only about Zane.
@@Blazenov only crack in that logic is that the Watcher didn't save Nyriad, she just mentioned the Watcher observed and didn't interfere in the sacrifice of Billions of Eridians to seal the Destroyer. It didn't save anyone.
Also switching back and forth between first & last names is convenient
Tungsteena Zarpedon
Athena (no surname to my knowledge)
Emily Swann
Even if you count Nyriad first banes is TANE, last names Z__S.
Oh an @piotrdworowy183 are you referring to the note from 0ne, that helped Zer0 against Sparky Flynt?
Zane being Assassin 0ne only became a thing with the Director's Cut Multiverse character models. His dialogue upon meeting Zer0 is a good hint at them not being that familiar in the lore of BL3 upon release. "I know that fella, we go to the same assassin bars!"
Instructions unclear: rubbed one out on Ccrypto
Not like that !
I think something to consider with the watcher being present when Athena was going to be executed, is that the commander Lilith dlc for bl2 had a voice line between brick and Lilith taking about what happened. It mentioned that no one else could hear what the watcher was saying except Lilith, so it more likely be the watcher saving Lilith by preventing her from doing down the wrong path which may have lead to her not teleporting the moon away from Pandora preventing the vault opening.
So for niriad, zarpadon and Athena/Lilith, the watcher has only ever been present when it came to sealing the destroyer. Which then would also imply more serious intentions for Emily swan too with her potentially playing a part keeping Pandora and elpis separated.
This is GREAT for knowledge, thanks so much for sharing it. Really puts everything into perspective.
The gearbox writers seeing this video: I think we should talk to Lilith
If I have to talk to Lilith more than 5 times in BL4 I'm uninstalling
@EpicNNG I can't stand Lilith after the first game, honestly.
“ROLAND!” 🗣️
It was so unnecessarily loud, let alone her neck being 2 feet long lmao
i love how the watcher literally is the g-man of borderlands
"the right man at the wrong place can make all the difference in the world." - G-man
3:00 a.m. and I am up to hear this before passing out. Borderlands lore calls to my sleep-deprived brain.
We just watched this together man
Real, its 2:38 for me rn
Bro same. It's almost 4 now 😂
Same!
Gearbox who never thought about any of this:
I’m pretty sure what maya means by “they don’t stay the same” is in reference to the powers of a siren. Like there are always 6 sirens (7 technically but let’s ignore niriad for now) but the powers in rotation for the 6 isn’t always the same powers, so something different coming would be in reference to a new power Emily swain might have
This is possible too, would not shock me
thats how i also interpreted it. would make sense aswell.
I think this makes the most sense tbh for both gameplay and lore. Like how is mayas phaselock special when Amara basically has the same thing. It’s best explained through sirens having small differences and changes in strength of the powers (similar to how maya was relatively weak with her power compared to Troy)
@@GnightPunpunAmara technically doesn’t have the same powers as maya. Maya can generate small inter-dimensional bubbles around objects, manipulate people’s minds and bodies, and utilize slag. Amara has the ability of astral projection and can generate small orbs that emit an aura of energy that heal or hurt. Their personalities reflect their powers. Amara is more physically aggressive and overconfident, so she has a more fist oriented version of her power. Maya is intelligent and pursues knowledge, so she has more mind oriented abilities. The utilization of slag/eridium can also be shown through personalities. Those who have an aptitude to consuming eridium seek power despite the means. Maya does stuff through merit and Amara doesn’t like taking shortcuts for strength. She takes pride in her power so why would she tarnish it by taking the equivalent of siren space roids.
@@GnightPunpun I think the narrative they decided to spin starting with Bl2 is that siren abilities manifest based on the sirens personality or past traumas. Maya was kept caged up by a cult. Amara never skips arm day. Angel and Tannis both spent an excessive amount of time with machines. The Calypso twins were influencers (phase"leech")
This theory would require Gearbox to care about the pre sequel/ j
Considering epicnng has already played the game i believe this
I have a different theory about The Watcher and its more so related to The Seer and The Timekeeper. Imma just copy and paste it from the server where i crafted the theory on. It probably has a lot of holes in it that I dont see yet but uh yea imma just paste it:
[...] The Watcher is closely related to The Seer btw, they're like, always communicating with one another.
The Seer sees all that has and ever will be, and from what I gathered, The Watcher interrupts whenever the timeline is about to be broken. So like, The Seer warns The Watcher about events that are threatening the timeline. The Seer sees everything because it indirectly controlls every being, but not sirens, sirens are above the laws of nature, they are capable of disrupting timelines. And in the last BL3 DLC, where we meet The Seer, he tells us that Liliths action of phasewalking the entire moon elsewhere has "shattered" the timeline. At the end of The Pre-Sequel, The Watcher was able to intervene because it wasnt a siren who fired the shots at Athenas. Lilith was merely the one giving the execution command, so The Watcher was able to step in and keep the timeline alive.
but at the end of BL3 when she phasewalks the entire moon; thats all her doing, she's the one who had the idea, she's the one who does it. and she's a siren so thats above and beyond of what The Watcher could possibly interfere with because like i said, sirens cant be controlled.
The Watcher kept the timeline alive at the end of The Pre-Sequel, but at the end of BL3 Lilith shattered it. My theory is that The Watcher wouldve intervened there for sure too if he could, but she's a siren so he couldnt. And now its up to The Timekeeper to restore the timeline.
So what I'm getting at is that I believe the intent of The Watcher was to keep the timeline alive, under the command of The Seer, to not trigger the worst case scenario of releasing The Timekeeper.
I really love this theory, great work!
This is very good. I really like that one. LITERALY got one kinda overshooted idea... One of comments below says "This theory would require Gearbox to care about the pre-sequel"... now with your theory i heard in my mind "If eridians are like guardians of timeline and our main characters (sirens) are messing with that, could there be even reason for releasing pre-sequel AFTER borderlands 2?"?? Like, do you guys think there could be possibility, they released a PRE-SEQUEL even named like that with intention to intervene with timeline of mainstory?? Maybe even hide something by doing that?? Now I definitely need to go to sleep... XDDDD
I don't think it's a good idea to make a playable vault hunter such is important character. Because they would need to be a active part of the story, if you play as another VH how would that work considering the VHS interaction with the worth should be able to be copy pasted across the 4 of them
A part of me love all the speculation and theory crafting, but then the other part of me doesn't because more often than not we end up disappointed because the Theory Story is better then what is actually executed. lol
6:58 I may have misunderstood what you meant but you don't have to be born a siren to be one, whenever a siren dies someone else becomes a siren regardless of age.
From Maya training Ava years before, we can still gather that there's some kind of imprint. Angel's power transfer was more out of nowhere though.
@@okagisamaI’m not actually sure it was random, out of everyone in all those planets angels power happens to go to one the the people she’s been helping throughout the second game. And not only did it go to one of the crimson raiders, it went to one that is arguably the best choice in the raiders for a machine focused siren power
@@okagisamapersonally I think the current power holder has some influence on where it goes, almost like they subconsciously pick who they want to have the powers
I may be talking out of my rear end but I read on a Reddit post that sirens are the only beings in borderlands that have free will, like their destinies can change and they live the life they choose. I also heard in a video that maybe the time keeper was created by eridians to protect the timeline from dangerous things. When I put these together I think maybe the watcher wanted Emily to get off of Elpis becaude the watcher knew that the moon would cross paths with the timekeeper at some point and maybe the timekeeper wants to kill sirens because they’re the only beings that threaten his timeline
Yea the free will thing is confirmed on the last borderlands 3 dlc, the director cut one
Tbh this in itself sounds like it could be a massive (and dare I say possibly valid) plot/lore drop theory
borderlands best writing and lore telling is done through echo logs in all of the games. If they concentrated more on that to tell a story (somewhat like bioshock) they'd get so much more credit. Some of the echo logs in BL3 were so excellent and had me forget for a second that I just listened to a guy talk about turds for 2 hours.
SAME THING FOR FALLOUT!! All the REAL lore is on the computers. One of them in 4 specifically states that Vault-Tec launched the bomb that caused everyone else to follow suit.
Someone on Discord pointed out that new siren may be a fake. Her tattoos and vials disappear in some shots of the trailer.
I think the timekeeper is Roland. Wild theory but so far the promotion material seems to obscure his face as well as the secret text at the end of the trailer saying “invader cut me open” and “his hand on your neck” reminding me a lot of the scene when handsome Jack kills Roland and slaps the control collar on Lilith. It also says “time kept is brain lost” which could allude to him being kept alive is making him evil. Like I said it’s a far out theory but the fact the time keeper seemingly has some sort of connection to time travel could explain how it’s him.
I've seen a few people mention this so far, but I'm not sure how likely it'd be, if at all. I'm leaning towards there being a 2% chance this is the case.
Or Roland from a different timeline? Come to save the current timeline as we opened vaults we should have never opened
It's 1:30 a.m. Central American time was so exciting to hear from you so I decided to drop everything to hear this.
Also this new Siren has purple rather than blue tats. Might make sense if she's "artificially" created by an Eridian
She also has a similar color scheme to the Watcher and I saw in a still from the last video about her that she has tiny little wings that look a lot like parts of The Watcher. There is no way this isn't intentional. If this Siren doesn't end up being Emily, I'm throwing my Xbox out the window
So a few things, i dont think sirens are usually born with their powers, the one instance i do know is that tyreen / troy were but i think that was an exception rather than the rule, for instance (this is also from a comic so it might not be cannon) lilith got her powers from that lady on pandora, so emily getting "made" into a siren isnt that strange. I also believe that what maya could have meant by "they don't always stay the same" is that the powers arent always the same set of 6. Maya specifically said 6 and i dont think that she was referencing 7, however i think she was saying that maybe the powers may not be the same, for instance maybe the next 6 wont have a leech or womt have a Firehawk (we know it will but just for instance), i do find this weird though because there are atleast 2 powers we dont know?
Maybe what mayas saying “there’s always six but aren’t always the same”. Maybe there isn’t just six siren powers but more. Unless you give your power to someone else like maya did to ava, the next siren would just get a random power from the many options
The lore book also kinda confirms that the watcher’s war wasn’t bl3. It questions if bl3 was the war and says something like, “another war is always on the horizon”
Also regarding the watcher... The villain of BL4 is "Timekeeper" and it seems as if the Watcher has some kind of ability to see through time.
Does that actually mean anything? I dunno, Imma leave it to the smarter people to figure out.
That is not actually a comic but the official Borderlands lore book, which is a SUPER legit source of information
Zarpadon: "He said your jump pads are stupid."
Deadlift: "I WILL ANNIHILATE THEM!" (One of my top favortie lines from BLTPS)
Vid starts at 4:00
I believe the watcher is only here to make sure the timeline follows its course. As we know, Sirens are unpredictable and don’t follow the chosen course of events (as said by the overseer). Let me explain
Nyriad (a siren): Had to leech the eridians to seal the destroyer and the Watcher was there to make sure that happened.
Zarpedon (controlled by the vault): Maybe Zarpedon was never meant to open the vault and when she opened the vault, she had the same ability as sirens, where she doesn’t follow the specific timeline. Zarpedon wasn’t supposed to “die” in the beginning of the game so the watcher intervened. But at the end of the game, she fulfilled her duty, and died.
Athena (not a siren): At the end of the game, it’s Lilith who orders Athena’s execution. Something that was never supposed to happen. And because Lilith (a siren) doesn’t follow the timeline like we said before, the watcher had to intervene and save Athena.
We know the overseer has been mind controlling people to push the events of the games in a certain direction, the watcher knows this and is either going against him, or believes that altering the timeline is the only way to save the future.
This goes into another theory of the Watcher being from the future, but I won’t get into that.
I think you are losing it and need some sleep 😂 😜great story telling and connecting the dots. Emily Swan got hyped up before BL3 and going into this I'm like here we go again. Want feelings it back then and that hasn't changed yet. That said, it's a better tie in than fran's frogurt shop 😂
HOLD MY HAND MENTALMARS WE'RE GOING TO THE MOON
@EpicNNG Let's F***** Go!!!
I hate the idea of a siren being "made", the best part about the siren lore is that they're rare, mysterious and very old. So the idea of them being "made" just makes them feel way less important. Im hoping maya just meant that the abilities may just express themselves differently depending on who inherits them, like how ava used phaselock compared to how maya used it.
Oh Epic... great video and you came SO CLOSE to seeing all the connections. I really thought you had it when you started in on the anagram, so let me throw in a couple more clues.
You mentioned that the Watcher is protecting people and events that are significant. Almost like they are "shielding" them from harm. In TPS when Jack tries to kill Zarpadon, we see the watcher "Rise to the Occassion" and create a "barrier" between the bullets and their target. From that point forward it's like Zarpadon is living on "Borrowed Time" until she is no longer necessary to protect Elpis and Pandora at which point "Death Follows Close".
The Watcher is then "Like a Ghost" until the Crimson Raiders are ready to kill Athena when he is once again "Ready for Action" and serves as her "Salvation" with "Nerves of Steel".
The rest of the time, the Watcher seems to just have eyes and ears everywhere. Almost like they are able to be in more than one place at once or utilize advanced technology to surveil all the events taking place that could impact their mission.
Given this "Commitment" and the fact that the Watcher is absent from the only game so far where Zane plays a prominent role, I think it's pretty obvious that The Watcher is none other than "Our Man Flynt". ;)
Epic, I feel like I’ve been watching your videos for such a long time it’s been kind of jarring to hear a call to action to hit 60k as I figured you were there long ago. Congrats on the milestone brotha
Thanks so much! It's been a great journey, and I thank you for being along for the ride!
Something I find interesting is that Elpis (I don't remember the name of the moon) was saved by the watcher by letting the presequel VH's finish off Zarpedon.
and letting elpis continue to exist leads to the end of BL3 and the discovery of the hidden planet of BL4
(Did the watcher do this on purpose? Will this be more important in the future? I don't know)
This is all fascinating but I think the new Siren vault hunter is a brand new character and has nothing to do with the pre sequel theory but we're just going to have to wait and see I'm excited for Borderlands 4
Funny, I think a story about someone hunting and keeping the sirens in stasis would be cool. Like an antag learned how powerful they are and if they get rid of them the powers just pop up somewhere else, so… just put em in stasis, that way the person is still around but the power is in check.
“The watcher has saved anyone who they thought was doing good” OH, So the watchers didn’t think Roland was doing good? Guess I’ll have to fight them.
I hope they don’t downplay the siren lore we know, by “making” a siren. The lore of sirens be able to bestow their thread (ie angel and tannis, and maya and Ava) or the tread being sent into the ether and choosing a girl to be a siren (Lilith, maya, amara, Tyreen etc)
I’m hoping that if it is Emily, it should be Commandant Steele’s siren “thread” she gets when she gets sent to pandora, we also don’t know how young Emily is in the events of tps. Maybe shes a young child and it’s easier to absorb the tread that way and the watcher knew. We also don’t know when she left Elpis, most likely when commandant Steele died and her thread was available. As we don’t know what makes a siren maybe it’s a molecular thing and the watcher sensed it and sent her to pandora to absorb the thread. Time skip and now she’s older, but I’d also like if she was the seventh siren and her own thing separate from “Emily” I’d love to know more about her (the seventh siren).
The fact Nyriad sealed herself because her power was insane, i mean absorbing all the eridians and sealing the destroyer and dying alone on nekro to make sure her siren thread wouldn’t attach itself to a baby girl, until tyhpon had tyreen. But going all that way because she feared her power to seal it then at the end of it being even more scared of the seventh? Whew the seventh must be insane.
This Zane thing is something that would come up after a crazy smoke session with the pals
Bro you didnt have to do Roland dirty like that 11:51
Yea right you can't just leave that in and not explain it
Emily Swan being an artificial Siren created by the Watcher could work when you consider that human technology in the Borderland Universe can closely mimic Siren abilities. The caveat being that the technology is expensive, hence why Lady Aurelia Hammerlock is one of the only people we see utilize it. Now Troy wasn't the smartest individual so him questioning if she was a Siren could be chalked up to that, but Aurelia does boast about how expensive her nanobot technology was so could be a bit of both. That being said if human technology, even that which has been reverse engineered from Eridians, is already getting close to mimicking a Siren imagine what an actual Eridian (or the closest thing we have to one) could do.
Watcher already knows the whole BL4 plot years before Gearbox started writing a good story. She’s planned ahead.
i think your theory is spot on its very plausible given all the lore. im super hyped for 4 now im honestly not TOO worried about the game i think it will still be good overall and it seems like theyve really opened the stage up to expand the universe and lay out more lore and maybe even character expansion with the whole "gather as many vault hunters as you can" thing. wait what if they introduce non playable but new vault hunters?
The Watcher said "I'm putting a team together"
The zane thing was funny , that watcher definitely has the same color palette like the new siren
14:23 acronym*
The characters think the Watcher is only watching, but... we know that it doesn't merely watch. Perhaps it actively plays a role in these characters' success, even if it only "watches" them.
Saying this before the watching but it would make so much sense for the watcher to save Emily swan because if she’s a playable character during the “war” then she’s gonna play a veeerrry significant role
What if the timekeeper has a way to make his army have psudo siren abilities closer to the real ones
It certainly is possible considering tannis became a siren later in life. But to capture the siren essence and black mail someone with it? You'd think that they'd just gather siren sparks and make a team of loyalists. Interestingly, in borderlands 3 when you kill the eridian enemies, their spirits fly up out of their body and conjoin with another one to enhance it. So what if that's what is happening with the sirens? The siren spirit, likely originally eridian based, found a way to transfer their essence to the weaker minded human race once whatever extinction event took place across the universe. Perhaps the 7th siren wiped out everyone else and as a last ditch effort the 6 used some device to seal away the 7th causing their spirits to displace?
Let’s play a bit of devil’s advocate here.
If the Watcher was specifically protecting people who are trying to save the world, then the characters that we the players play in BL1 to BL3 (ie all the Vault Hunters), would be protected too. But we lost Roland and Maya. So there are inconsistencies there. And from a gameplay perspective, we the player would never be in danger or face a character death. Lol.
However, we can also be realistic and say that we never had a fully fleshed out and planned narrative at the release from BL1, and the developers are doing their best to continue the story with the release of each game. If the Watcher theory ends up being true, then yeah, there will be massive plot holes that don’t really make sense (eg the Roland + Maya issue). But also we’re getting some element of Timekeeping in BL4, so maybe they’ll use that as an excuse to “correct” some wrongs and resurrect Roland + Maya with altered time. I think that’s likely the only way to save face after the horrible execution of the Ava and Maya narrative from BL3 that essentially cemented all of our existing hatred for the Ava character. If she can somehow redeem herself in BL4, at least by resurrecting Maya perhaps, it would go some way to restoring faith in their fans.
The Watcher’s interplay with time in BL4 could present some course correcting opportunities to the developers.
They have knowledge of everything that will be, they aren't protecting roland and Maya because they know that their deaths are necessary to the ultimate end game. It's not as simple as save the good guy, its save the timeline, however that may come to pass
From the last titles of the franchise from announcement trailer to release is around 5 months. So if you count from the last trailer it would be May. If by earlier announcement even earlier.
All borderlands come out September or October, but tiny Tina wonderlands released in March.
Perfect theories, but we have a way of making things line up with what we desire to believe in. Gearbox does not care for established lore and will most likely create a story that loosely holds anything together but is enough to make people speculate, like they do every time. Sales will be good, and they'll want that to continue, so everything will open and end on vague notes like it always does
If you think about the watcher knows what’s gonna happen because it’s shown that eridian tech can make you see in the future like jack did and the watcher might be the king/queen of the eridian race so it can obviously see in the future to it knows what’s gonna happen possibly that’s why the watcher tells Lilith to get as many vault hunters as she can and but the watcher might be keeping these people alive because of that fact but also cause they will play a big role in helping and it connects to zarpadan she had purple looking powers from eridian tech which might be traced back to the watcher healing the girl and she has purple colored siren powers because she consumed eridian powers when she was healed so she became a siren due to the fact she had to get this energy to stay alive and the eridian knew the world needed more soldiers for this war
Absolutely FREAKING LOVE THIS! Oh and congrats on passing the 60k subs before the end of the year!
Thanks so much!!
I always thought that ‘The War’ was referring to a Borderlands MMO, I could have sworn that Randy was super keen to do an MMO too
I hope they don't do that no mmos I hope they keep borderlands with 4 player coop and single player in future games we don't need live service! To much of that crap already!
If u guys read the comics of borderland it show a siren that can control animals but I can't remember what the color is but I'm pretty sure it's pinkish in the book.
I feel like the watcher is special the one guardian in BL3 says that sirens are unpredictable. But the watcher seems to have a special connection with Sirens maybe the watcher is the one that makes the Sirens or at least chooses who gets their powers unless they are trapped in a vault like Nyriad or they choose like Maya did. The watcher knows the sirens they watch them and either protects them or leads them to reach there true potential
Glad to be part of this community ❤ thanks for the shout out
No problem 😊
I love borderlands theories and this is by far my new favorite theory
Also we cant forget that most guardians like the watcher can see the future
I hope it's true this time because we all thought BL3 was going to be about the Watcher's premonition
HOLD UP "Emily's" shoulder wingd look an awful lot like the watchers wings
My theory was always that the Watcher protected Zarpedon the first time so Jack could meet Lilith and Roland, become enemies with them and then get killed the vault hunters.
I love theory’s is so fun to talk about borderlands there’s so much stuff they haven’t answered.
This have gave me chills when you was explaining it feels so right.
I'm running on this idea that handsome Jack actually is the hero and we're gonna get some time travel BS. Bet the warrior is actually the only thing that can kill the destroyer or something
Congrats on 60k man!
Thanks!
What if when maya said they're not all the same she was mening like the powers between them, because her powers were different from when troy was using them and also different from when ava was using them
I really don’t think Ava was a bad character I wish the writers hadn’t based it basically all around her in 3
Even though people said that gearbox denied it, I still theorized that the new siren from borderlands 4 is a aged up Ava, and if I’m proven wrong, then hopefully she appears again and is given better writing
I really hope you're right and and she doesn't end up being just some random siren.
I have a theory about the great war. I think there is a bigger threat than just the vault monsters and time keepers and they are the leader of all of the monsters in the vault. Once they come back all the vaults will open at once forming an intergalactic army which will require all the vault hunters to face. So I think that the Great War will be in borderlands 5
this may sound farfetched but because each name makes ZANE i think that Zane's clone/hologram might be The clone/hologram might be The Watcher, as it would be the perfect disguise for it to literally "Watch"
now the other theory that we may have to consider is time of saving so my best guess as to the order is Nyriad, Emily, Zarpadon, and Athena making the name NEZA or if in Borderlands 4 there's a confirmed 5th that's in between Zarpadon and Athena that can be an H it would make the name NEZHA
You're overseeing something here. If The Watcher was protecting Zarpedon after saving Emily we can assume that the reason they urged Emily and Annie to flee the planet was because they believed Zarpedon was going to destroy Elpis, meaning that if Emily didn't flee his work of saving her would be all for nothing. Plus assuming he is siding with people who do good, if Zarpadon was victorious a lot of the later events of the series just wouldn't have happened. The watcher believed Zarpadon was on the right path but later in the story changed their mind for some unknown reason and let her die. The one issue with my idea here I can see being brought up is how if the watcher believed Zarpadon would have destroyed Elpis, how would the war needing vault hunters happen in the first place? Why would he save Emily if Zarpadon removed the threat? I think the war was perhaps an inevitability, something doomed to happen no matter what. Im not sure but I think Zarpadons Invasion being the reason The Watcher urged Emily to flee makes sense, as I doubt he wouldn't know about it.
imagine this is all copium and still our imagination of BL4 would be better than the story we´ll get
She says there are always 6, but we know theres 7. What if that means there can only be 6 sirens at a time... But there are 7 siren powers. Maybe hinting that which siren powers are "spawned" at a given time are different. Maybe the watcher forced the 7th sirens powers into emily, and because she wasnt spawned a siren she wouldnt have an yrge to go to pandora?
I’ve also noticed that all the other sirens have pure blue tattoos, Troy and “Emily” don’t
Also with the watcher saving zarpedon, I’m wondering she was a siren too, with being able to use that staff she had.
And I’ve always wondered where Athena went any why she had few mentions in 2 or 3
tbh what is even zane doing on elpis/kairos? like how did he get on elpis/kairos when he's supposed to be present on pandora during the whole scene of lilith stopping elpis from smashing into pandora and opening the great vault ? i know that the game is not out yet but it just doesn't really add up
The only thing I can think of is that the watcher has protected those that it deems a safety for the world. But it could also be protecting those that it could see be a siren potential so that they could keep the world safe only saving those that it deems good in the world and not power hungry.
Bro Athena becoming a siren 🤯
Damn krypto strong armed tf out of that shout out lmao my man wanted his respect
I personally thinks, Borderlands 4 finale will be START of war and in Borderlands 5 will be the GREAT WAR
I like to think that the commander of the Lost legion she saw more than handsome Jack's rise to power she saw what the future of borderlands would be she knew about the twins, she knew about Pandora's Moon, she knew that one known as Lilith would teleport the moon away from Pandora so she thought by destroying the Moon it would keep the Great vault closed off forever even if it means destroying Pandora as well but the watcher other plans
Sir, this video should be tweeted to Randy Pitchford, if anything, in hopes that he at least see it and comment in any way on it, this theory not only is logically based in evidence, but also would make BL4 so much better finally giving us the beginning of the end, (the war is coming, question is will it be in the main game, DLC's, or is this game just a lead up to a bigger finale?), I'm excited to see what happens with the story.
If the Watcher made Emily Swan a siren it make would sense that her tattoos are a different colour because she is a artificial siren?
Well boys, I think its time to boot up all the borderlands games and dissect every echo recording until we get all the missing links.
Ice cream day!
OH SNAP!
It's ice cream daaaayhaaaay!
Rocky Road!
A'la Mode!
Oh Im in the mode for ICE CREAM DAAAAAAYYYYYY
The time keeper is the 7th siren and a male one at that. Tattoos glow gold and siren power is time skip.
is emily swan not the chicki n the echo log mission at the start of bl2? the one talking about being attacked by a skag and then killed by jack
Bl2 was great because it had a great antagonist in handsome Jack. I couldn't give ashyt about the vault hunters
I think this whole theory is way too big brain for Gearbox. They proved in Borderlands 3 that they were willing to disregard previous Borderlands lore entirely and just throw whatever together because "funny goofy". I don't think they will include much of previous Borderlands lore at all in the 4th, I think they will stay as far away from it as possible with a few hints here and there. Remember, Borderlands 4 is meant to be a "soft reboot". Whatever was important in previous Borderlands games likely won't matter in this one. I'd go as far as to say that the 4th will conclude with the Timekeeper doing some time shit and the whole timeline getting reset, officially taking borderlands 4 from a soft reboot, to an official reboot of the franchise.
Hear me out, we still dont know what Commander Steele's ability was and i keep of thinking that the new siren might have her power
She litterally said that "there is always something different" , just that ,there is no "coming " word in her sentence
"Just because there are always 6, doesnt mean they always stay the same. Theres something different coming"
what if the watcher is gathering female vault hunters to replace a siren when she die immediatly , maybe the watcher know a trick to garanty passing the siren power to another person. So it have a bunch of replacer when one die during the war
So correct me if I’m wrong. But I’m pretty sure the watcher making someone a siren would be almost against lore? If the watcher is an euridian? Because the og phase leech siren talks about how neither the euridians nor the sirens themselves knew what sirens were. Only that they were connected in some way? Idk just makes me think it’s not the watchers doing? Maybe the watcher just had a feeling or could see or “watch” the course of randomness that steels sirens power would take? Like an observer but not something it could interfere with?
Congratulations 60K
hopefully they announce it to be released in March!
Side theory: Reason why the vault hunters are so boring looking in this one, it's cause at the end of the game the war begins and we make our own vault hunters using a character creator
That would be a huge departure from the style of the game/story telling. Not saying its a bad theory, with how much customizing you can do already, but I dont see them going that route due to already established styles.
Yeah nah, we‘ll have probably better cosmetics but they literally said the vaulthunters will be involved in the story.
That by itself pretty much confirms they are set characters.
@iNSANELYSMART409 That's why I said end of the game, cause for this to even happen they'd have one of the sirens somehow allow for infinite sirens. Plus that would allow cosmetic sales and even skill trees to be sold separately
1 thing about bl4 too is I think we’ll be getting customization just like Wonderlands meaning even if we’ve never met Emily Swan WE get to decide what she looks like
I doubt it'll be as in-depth as changing a character's face or body, though. I definitely think there will be more customization than head/skin/body, but I feel like the characters themselves are set in stone, since they're meant to actually play a part in the story this time.
I think you lost it. And I'm fucking here for it. This shit is getting me more pumped up for BL4.
I think Maya's voice line in DLC 4 is intentional and refering to a new Siren ability we haven't seen. Gearbox most likely knew what BL4s Siren's powers were going to be before they had a villian. I would put money on a new Siren power in BL4
Something that has tickled my brain for a little while now... The Watcher clearly has knowledge of the future. Why else would it know the War is coming, that we're going to need as many Vault Hunters as possible, etc. Despite Sirens being uncontrollable (acausal, as per the Seer), it might even have known Emily would (randomly?) inherit some Siren's power, if she wasn't made into an artificial Siren that is.
But HOW does the Watcher know of these future events? Well... we do know of a being that has to do with time. The Timekeeper. Is the Watcher working with the Timekeeper? Is the watcher betraying the Timekeeper? Or does it know about the future through some other means?
EDIT: Just wanted to add, "causality" is a term used in astronomy to basically indicate time-travel. Faster Than Light (FTL) travel, or just information travelling faster than light or through time would break causality (events being witnessed before they actually happen, for example). This, and the comments from the Seer that Lilith has shattered the timeline can be food for thought, though I don't know what it all means.
Only mid way through the video here, I like this theroy it makes complete sense however I don’t think the watcher made Emily a siren he healed her because I assume he knew that she WOULD be a siren one day, and we know sirens can become sirens later on in life (Ava tanis etc) so I think the watcher knew that she was going to become a siren one day and healed her so that would happen,two more things this lines up perfectly with the siren from the comic who had the ability to control beasts (her ability’s are purple/pink and the siren from bl4 tattoos are purple/pink) this makes sense because the siren from comic probably dies just as Emily reaches pandora and the other thing I feel like her mother would mention if she randomly got tattoos after the watcher was there
Finished the video some of this theroy is kinda incorrect now and I may be missing some info for this but I still believe this is true and if you do see this (doubt you will seeing how there’s 100s of comments lol) I think this is really valuable information
"Mechanical crypt" - The Time Keeper was clearly standing in front of a vault (crypt) that was mechanical. It wasn't a stone vault like all the others we've seen. Also, we have no idea about the gender of the Time Keeper, right? We are just assuming it's a male.
I got a different impression of the Calypso Twins. I thought they were great villians. They were douchy to the max, extremely psychotic, and about as evil as you could get. I just LOVE Borderlands, I've been playing it since the first one released, and even though there ARE plot holes, I still love each one for soemthing different. In BL3, it was all the extra abilities of the weapons you got, and I just liked the bad guys. 🤷🏻♂️ Maybe I'm just biased. 🤣