Autism without ADHD - What are the differences between ADHD and Autism?
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- What are the differences between ADHD and Autism? We know there is a high overlap between attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and autism as they share some common traits and one person can have both. However, what does autism look like without ADHD? Could it be differences in sensory needs or routines? In this week’s video, I will share some examples based on my personal experience that even professionals said that I do not have ADHD.
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🎞️Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:27 My visit to the psychologist
1:38 The ADHD Test
3:08 Structure and Routine
6:44 Emotional Regulation
8:02 Procrastination and Emotions
9:28 Sensory aversion towards something
12:11 Final thought
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#autism #asd #autismawareness
My ASD + ADHD:
I crave routines and pre-made decisions to avoid analysis paralysis about some things (ex: lunch) AND I'm a procrastinator about tedious, repetitive tasks (ex: cleaning).
Some over-stimulation drains me (socializing), other over-stimulation can get me upset (trying to focus in a noisy enviroment).
I love making lists and I'm terrible about following them.
Yes. Consistent meals make it less stressful, even if it's different ones every day.
I also love making lists even when I know I wont follow them, since just making them can be enough to help me organize my thoughts enough to move forward
😅 I'm in this boat too
Whelp. I'm not diagnosed with either, but this sounds so much like me.
I need routines and pre-made decisions, because it's so hard and sometimes impossible to decide in the moment.
I keep changing my routines because I need to fit another task in. Then it becomes too much, I get overwhelmed and drop everything.
I make lists then forget where I've put them (sigh).
Overstimulation can result in me being exhausted and shutting down or it can result in panic attacks and crying.
I am diagnosed with cPTSD. Not sure what is what, here.
I'm quite disorganized, so I make lists, but I'm pretty good about following them. They make me aware when I'm procrastinating, and maybe I'll procrastinate a few days, but I will eventually force myself to do the thing I'm avoiding. I actually hate routine, always have. I eat a lot of the same things, mainly because I have so many food allergies that I don't have all that much choice.
I feel like my neurodivergent traits combined with my trauma and mental health issues are so mixed up, it's hard to tease everything everything apart and know what's what.
Just remember, every mental health crisis and disorder on the planet are the direct result of nerotypical thought processes, systems, and structures.
Their pathological demand projection causes them to be bullies. They have to bully their ideas into their children's heads, because their ideas are duplicitous and quite frankly error codes.
Their multitropism causes them to create multiple systems and structures that do not co exist. That, combined with the fact that they refuse to follow their own rules. Causes people who know how to follow rules and create stable system and structures mental strain, then when labeled as nerodivergent you think there is somthing wrong with you. Nothing could be further than the truth. Your the mentally stable one, even in a conversation with a psychologist, never forget that.
They can't reconcile the PHD on their wall with the fact that they only use ten percent of their brain.
These are facts, keep your head up 🙂
I also find mental health issues make it complicated. Like Anxiety and Dissociation, can look a lot like ADHD.. I've been trying to figure out when those started, because I know I wasn't born with them. My autistic traits, however, I can't ever remember a time not having. I wonder how many of us have so many layers and different conditions interacting with one another, and how many of us are 'just' solely autistic.
I was just talking about this with my counselor. The way I am could be autism, a.d.d, or ptsd we never know where something comes from
I have autism diagnosis. I'm currently waiting for ADHD diagnosis and wondering if it's not just CPTSD. It's probably everything at once. It's complicated and confusing.
Same
I would caveat this by saying that it can be obvious to a professional that you do have autism or ADHD, but declaring that someone obviously *doesn't* is hazardous, and frequently results in underdiagnosis. There's plenty of stories online of people being told they obviously don't have ADHD because they got As at school, despite the fact that ADHDers can sometimes hyperfocus on academic tasks and sometimes keep up with homework by succeeding at doing it all at the very last minute...
8:19 "That sounds like a stressful nightmare!"
It sounds like a stressful nightmare mostly because it _is_ a stressful nightmare! Source: I'm AuDHD.
most of my uni was like that. I still have actuall nightmares about it over 10 years later. also AuDHD here :)
Funnily enough, as a diagnosed ADHDer and self-identified AUDHDer I, too, will avoid this nightmare, if possible. 😅
Oh man I do that procrastination as motivation thing all the time. The only thing that really helps is having someone I care about depend on me to get the thing done.
This is one of the clearest presentations I’ve seen on this topic. Kudos to you! I’m diagnosed AuDHD and this just further reinforces the diagnosis. Brilliant. To one of your examples, I won’t just be mildly annoyed with noises or lights or smells or other triggers. I’ll be dysregulated to the point of rage or even meltdown if I can’t remove myself from the situation, and I won’t be able to just ignore it or push through. I also highly resonated with the “strategic procrastination” to use the urgency of a deadline to complete tasks that aren’t stimulating to me.
I was diagnosed with ADHD in 2021 aged 42. Also been told I am autistic especially by my autistic adult child. I drive a truck full time and have a huge amount of annual leave. I barely make it during the weekend. I can't handle taking weeks off work. A few years ago the boss put me in the office for two days to work on a project. It was painful. I put my earbuds in and listened to the world's best radio station, Triple R. I don't like silence. I love music all the time.
Oh my god, same- I'm a high school freshman tho 😅
listening to that further confirms I'm a mix of both, constantly leaving tasks right to the end of the deadline my pattern is always the same I'll get a chunk done at the start of the window because I know as you said it is a stressful nightmare to do it late but then I hit a wall and can't do the bulk of it until the very end, must seem like laziness to others but I really stress and feel guilty for not being able to do these things
I do some of that, plus, with certain kinds of tasks I found out I just take longer to complete them and had mis-attributed that to procrastination when it wasn't that after all
I'll try to give a link, but I don't know if youtube will let me. But if you want to, try googling Devon Price substack "laziness does not exist". Reading that has helped me a lot to overcome feelings of guilt.
This is very interesting and for me it further confirms that I only have ASD as I cannot leave things late because the stress becomes paralyzing and my extreme perfectionism is telling me that if I don't have the time to do it well I might as well not do it at all 😅
@@h07269 I mean I also do that, but I definitely still have adhd
I am obviously autistic and obviously don't have ADHD. My ADHD co-workers and friends tell me I am obviously autistic and tend to hyperfocus on doing one thing and/or repeat one and the same action for hours on end. Because everything can be converted to a music count and repeated in forever, which I enjoy so very much. It's like a space texture that gives me so much joy.
THIS! This is THE BEST description of what happens when I work to music I've ever heard from another person & made me so very happy to read ❤ Thank you for sharing this.
Before watching this video, I was certain I have autism, and pretty sure I don't have ADHD. This video reinforced that assessment.
Your comments about University, all-nighters, and cramming for exams really resonated with me. Rather than pull an all-nighter, I'm much better off waking up early and doing the thing while my brain is working at peak efficiency (and when nobody else is likely to be awake to bother me). I paid attention throughout the quarter/semester; if I haven't learned the material by a few days before the exam, no amount of cramming is going to improve the situation; in fact, it might just confuse me more. My roommate and I would go play pool instead of cramming. No wait for a table when everyone else is cramming.
I'm going to go take the ADHD test you did, in hopes that it makes me even more convinced.
You mentioned suppressing emotions. I've certainly done that, and sometimes still do that. But I learned the hard way that it's not possible to keep them suppressed for long periods of time. I found that I'm better off acknowledging the emotions are there, maybe even make an effort to feel them; then control how I react and respond to those emotions. I also find that it takes conscious processing to detect emotions in others. I sometimes turn down (or off) that conscious processing when I'm not in a position to receive those emotions (typically because I am overwhelmed).
I pretty definitely am both. And the conflict is as fascinating as it is aggravating at times. Couple that with a co-occurrence rate of anywhere between 30 to 70% (50-70% according to a 2022 paper) and it's a highly interesting topic. Something is very similar, yet there also are lines and I hope to learn more about them in this video.
But I think one can really start to ask the question "Is there one without the other?" Maybe a topic for later cause I feel that can quickly become a discussion about neurotypes and how we define "disorders." Add to that how the modern field of biology came to be (kudos to Alexander Avila and his recent video) and we are getting deep into the weeds. "Efficiency, reproduction of identical results becoming paramount and "diverging" neurotypes not fitting into this" is all I will say before I infodump.
The last bit is kind of what helps me deal with impostor syndrome. Even though we have terminology and definitions and diagnostic criteria, we don’t necessarily know exactly what autism is. What I know is that autism describes my differences and needs more accurately than any other description I’ve found. For some other people, ADHD is a better description, and others need both to explain their experience. There will be more research and discoveries in the future, but for now it’s enough to know that people have different needs and experiences and that’s okay.
I hope to be a part of the future research and discoveries. Neurogenetics is one of my my special interests. I want all the answers!!!
My autism discovery was in May 2023. Since then it has been a whole year's worth of 65+ years of life coming into startlingly clear, sharp-edged relief, so crisp and unmistakable as to be nearly frightening at times, certainly jarring and "shaking," though always in a deeply good, integrating way. In short, the discovery transmuted my whole past. By changing absolutely nothing, of course, except for the key that unlocked its intrinsic, plaguing mystery. But the revelations continue. Your video today is perhaps the most boat-rocking moment I've had in many months now. It cannot, of course, match the seismic event of my autism discovery (and it shouldn't), but it's really quite a ways up there on the scale. You really pinned something down today that breaks open a "whole 'nuther" mystery for me, that being the deeply emotional way, the frenetic internal frustration/panic, the feeling of being assaulted and being too upset to cope with insanely unintelligible things like, say, small talk, when there's a sensory bombardment under way (like hyped-up sound speakers blaring intense bass tones) all around us. The sensation is something like being in the Blitz on a London street, the bombs falling all around, while some idiot walks up to you and asks your opinion on the relative merits of the three-minute or four-minute boiled egg. Very recently I took one of these tests on ADHD and, just like my shock a year ago when the autism tests all agreed unanimously that I was "significantly autistic," I was "jarred frozen," if that makes any sense, when this ADHD test asserted that, yes, I very likely had ADHD. I haven't thought much about it since then, though, mostly I think because I couldn't plug that factoid into a real-life felt niche--like, okay, so how does that show up? Until your video today.
Your description of discovery and integration is elequent and utterly captures what I have been going through the past year and a half, thank you.
It makes me both happy and sad at the same time reading about the neurodivergent self-discoveries of people in their 60s and 70s. Mostly happy, the relief of it all finally making sense is coming through
I’m struggling to sort out what is my autistic side, whether or not I have ADHD, and what is the result of a traumatic brain injury (which made me even more sensitive, decreased my executive capacity and negatively affected my ability to express myself especially when tired or in pain). I don’t so much care about labels as I care about understanding what’s happening and being understood.
Trigger warning!
I obviously have both. But at my recent autism diagnosis attempt the people assessing my, didn't think so. Stuff like, because I didn't loose my temper all the time, because I can finish a puzzle without fuzzing for hours about the pattern, because I can point at stuff, because I CAN make eye contact (nobody asked if it's hard to do), they didn't even ask about my sensory issues, because a traumatic childhood and Autism never occurs together (*insert hurtful insults*), because they talked to my mother who thought I was normal (guess why she thought that), because the stress-related issues and stimming are a result of a bad childhood, because I EVER held a job. I would have agreed, IF IT WAS the 1970s. And those people were likely under 40 years old. The paper tests I filled out were ignored, because "people coming for an autism diagnosis often feel autistic" and the practical tests were obviously for children under the age of 6.
This all would make sense, if a diagnosis would grant me a life-long monthly sickness payout of >5000€ without working and they need to weed out people who need it, but all I need is a piece of paper making me able to ask for special working conditions and recognition of my disability.
Sorry for venting. I hope you'll have a better experience than me.
Sorry you have gone through that. I was disabled out due to brain injury so I had disability money to live on which I’m so grateful for and wish everyone who needed it had that support. I wish I had been able to do a job that could accommodate what I need to be productive - I really miss the joy of being of service and yet- no way I can pull that off. I send you strength to keep advocating for yourself.
For me it depends on the task whether I want to do it with plenty of time or under pressure. For example, I like to prepare for a Sunday school session days in advance. But I only get motivated for tidying up the living room hours before a visitor arrives.
Paul, you and I are so similar haha. I know wayyy more audhd folks than just autism like me so it’s nice to hear from someone like me!
The procrastination part resonated most. It’s so illogical and I’m stressed until I’m on top of things. I could relate about sensory sensitivities too. Cheers!
Yes, it is stressful to feel the work piling up but not be able to push through a lack of motivation. As bad as that is, it feels worse to try to do something that doesn't feel necessary. I'd rather use my time more efficiently is sort of the internal justification.
There are things you are mentioning I am "I am exactly like that!" and there are "I am completely opposite". But I got ADHD diagnosis this week. You helped me a lot to understand myself better. Now having proof about being AuDHD I understand my whole life so much better.
I have both ASD and ADHD. Only when I got ADHD diagnosis and proper medication at the age 17-18 and then again starting at the age of 21 my autistic traits started to flourish. I could finally find hard scientific subject I was good at I could study solve problems and crunch numbers all night while studying it for 6 years. Recently l was to write an abstract but instead I had written 125 pages. I am not so rule-oriented as many autistic friends around. I am not obsessed about having things sorted in the order.
Glad to read that you got a diagnosis and helpful meds. I only realized my autism in my 30s, but I couldn't get a diagnosis because they said they saw ADHD instead. Didn't think I had that at the time, but now it's finally clicking. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience because I found it helpful.
I’m so happy for you, and also jealous. My GAD tends to attenuate my inatttention (at a cost), but it also seems to make ADHD meds hard to tolerate. I’ve tried very minimal doses, and they help a bit - the time I upped it a bit (still very low), I could just sit and work, but my anxiety got problematic.
I'm autistic without ADHD. Some of the reasons that came up during assessment - I love repetitive boring tasks and once I'm into them it's hard to stop, any craft or art project I will finish before starting a new one, I have favourite routines/interests/things that capture my attention and give me joy over years and years, I don't like too much novelty, I can plan and sequence tasks easily, I remember everything I own and where it is, I'm highly sensitive to caffeine and stimulants, I am rarely impulsive.
I really appreciate your breakdown, so helpful as I’m continuing to unpack and figure out all of the flavors of my neurodivergence.
The need for a lack of choices in daily life with things like meals and clothes really rings. I never thought of you as an ADHD type. I have a lot of it and can see the difference. Thanks for the video
Looking forward to this.
The part about the doing stuff in my own time, finding the thought of all-nighters way too stressful resonated most with me.
It was so validating to hear about sensory overstimulation being emotionally dysregulating. I've never heard anyone put it that way, and it made me tear up a little (in a good way)! But I also have to say that being detail oriented does not mean that you don't have ADHD. I have inattentive type ADHD and autism, and I can be very detail oriented. I can follow every single instruction to make sure I get an A on a paper, I'm an excellent proofreader, but I can also fail to notice the pumpkin that had been sitting on the kitchen table for a week. A tip that might help folks with procrastination: I find body doubling to be very helpful. I'll meet a friend on a video call and tell them what I want to get done, and they might have to remind me to take a step if I get distracted by being helpful to them about whatever they're working on. That way, I can accomplish something before the deadline, so it's not hanging over me and making me feel dread and pressured. Most of the time it's easier than I expect it will be, but sometimes it actually is hard and painful, but I spend a few minutes getting it done or at least doing a chunk of it, and that's such a relief. And my friends are always happy that they were able to help.
Thank you for going into these differences. As a mid 60s self diagnosed autistic, it’s quite illuminating to see these differences. I always used to think I had a strain of ADHD, but now that I have learned about autism, that hat fits, and this presentation really helps me to see how some ADHD traits might be there without it really being ADHD.
Your closing thought is actually something a wrote about a year ago. I think a lot more needs to be said about Neurodivergence as an Umbrella of differences and we all (those who are divergent) have a unique combination of a lot of them, but not all of them.
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
Can you help with the reliable source I would really appreciate it. Many people talk about mushrooms and psychedelics but nobody talks about where to get them. Very hard to get a reliable s0urce here in Australia. Really need!
Yes, phillsmyco2. I have the same experience with anxiety, depression, PTSD and addiction and Mushrooms definitely made a huge huge difference to why am clean today.
I wish they were readily available in my place.
Microdosing was my next plan of care for my husband. He is 59 & has so many mental health issues plus probable CTE & a TBI that left him in a coma 8 days. It's too late now I had to get a TPO as he's 6'6 300+ pound homicidal maniac.
He's constantly talking about killing someone.
He's violent. Anyone reading this Familiar w/ BPD know if it is common for an obsession with violence.
Is he on instagram?
Yes he is. Phillsmyco2
@autismfromtheInside Can't sensory sensitivities be annoying, distracting, and painfull all while disregulating emotions? Like making one overwhelmed and almost in tears. Is that sounding more like an asd or adhd experience?
This was excellent, thanks. I agree with your summary thoughts: one of the things I agree with my old psych about is that traits are perhaps more significant than umbrella diagnoses. I may doubt an umbrella diagnoses at times, but never my traits. And it is likely that ADHD, and to a lesser extent autism, are made up of multiple variants, some of which may overlap in different conditions. If I’d only met four out of five criteria for some diagnosis, the four traits I do have wouldn’t disappear.
My suspicion is that as science replaces observation in diagnosis, we will eventually replace umbrella diagnoses with neural profiles. I am
Inclined to think this will have some advantages.
With that in mind: this was pretty weird. I am in a phase where my ADHD side is very apparent to me, and since I can only “see” one thing at a time, my autistic side feels remote. I definitely feel the test you took would not kick me out after 9 questions. And I hate my ADHD because it undermines the attention to detail you have and I have somewhat. Yet, your description of how routine is influenced by your executive function challenges is exactly the conclusion I’ve come to about myself, and the ADHD version you described feels remote and not very relatable. On the other hand, with the sensory portion, I definitely come down on the ADHD side. Some of this has to do with my being combined type, with my hyperactive side being arguably more prominent. When I got the dx, I was initially skeptical about the inattentive, though I certainly see it clearly now.
I always wondered if I had also ADD, somehow masking it too and pushing through it to be functional. Your comment about Procrastination reminded me of my school years, always doing projects the night before having to submit it. I was successful doing it so though, very focused, unlike trying to do it earlier. I tend to have some very focused moment where I do too many things and other time I can't do anything at all. So I checked out your other video and took the test with a 12 on 18 result. I'll have to look more into this...
There's been an increasing recognition of the fact that ADHD isn't mutually exclusive with being smart or academically capable, with the catch that masking/compensating for neurodivergent traits to this level is unsustainable long term. I got diagnosed recently under similar circumstances, did very well at school and keep up at work but my home life completely fell to pieces and it turned out to be ADHD and being completely burnt out at home from compensating while at work.
I have more non-obvious variety of autism. So much so that I only started suspecting it through my autistic then-girlfriend. And it required two years of fighting against the chief doctor of our hospital before I finally got diagnosed with it at the age of 32. But I also suspect non-obvious variety of ADHD and this video did nothing to discredit my self-diagnosis on that.
The non-obviousness has made my life hell not only through the difficulties of getting the diagnose, but because it still have had a significant impact on my mental health because I never even realized what should I do to make my life easier. And the depression medication is also useless against the depression when it is caused by chronic and perpetual autistic burnout.
One small reason I also suspect ADHD is the fact that I'd have so much more to say about my story but I just can't be bothered to write it down due to not getting any emotional gratification out of it and the difficulties of keeping my thoughts coherent enough to be written down with intact common thread.
Although i've been diagnosed with ADHD Combined. I also have the symptoms of Autism.
Paul, I have autism, and part of the ADHD problem (inattentive, impulsive and overactive). I have a very high IQ (118), and a very high EQ (Emotional Quotient). The ADHD was caused by the damage done to the DNA by alcohol, also known as FASD (Foetal Abnormality Syndrome Disorder). I am good at executive function although, I do like to procrastinate.
I went through college before my diagnosis and I always put off my long-term papers until the last day or two. I spent all that time planning out what I want to write in my head, but never put pen to paper because I hated reading my own stuff. At crunch time, I directed the adrenaline from the stress to put out the paper and turn it in. It didn't effect me academically (which is probably why I kept doing it) but I was burned out for a day or two afterwards. If I ever decide to go back to school for whatever reason, there's no way I could write that way again due to realizing my adverse reaction to stress and anxiety.
I think I had a similar experience.. It wasn't necessarily that I 'put off' doing assignments until the last minute because I wasn't motivated to do them.. I would be actively thinking about them and planning them in my head; maybe doing research for them, but I only started writing them down when it was closer to the deadline, and I'd stay up all night & channel the stress/adrenaline.. I think the reasoning was more along the lines of knowing if I wrote them down too soon, I'd over-edit them (sometimes if I did assignments early, I would end up rewriting them several times, and get all perfectionistic), or I wouldn't include some important information if I hadn't thought about it for a long time beforehand.. If I knew I 'could' write something, from start to finish, over 48 hours straight (no rest), and then hand it in, and know it was done and I couldn't go back and rewrite it or add anything else, I chose to deal with the short-term stress and burnout rather than prolonging the stress, if that makes sense.. I also had a load of other commitments I needed to prioritise (I had part-time jobs all through college & university) and I realised trying to do too many things at once would make me go crazy and crash, so it helped to set that time aside 'at the last minute' to hyperfocus on completing my assignment practically and not have other things get in the way. The only way I could justify excusing myself from the rest of Life and being able to just sit down and focus with no distractions was if I had a deadline approaching.
I also didn't know I was autistic then, and I would do things very differently if I could go back to school now. I don't think I have ADHD but I find this discussion very interesting because I think it can sometimes look like I do on the surface..
The timing on this was great for me. I feel like I've gotten past the worst of my autism imposter syndrome, but it's still really a problem for my probable ADHD. I connect best to folks talking about their AuDHD, and this reminds me how many of my struggles that feel antithetical to my autism are probably from ADHD -- like the assignment procrastination, which is something I've done since elementary school. I had to race my mom to complete my math homework otherwise it was too boring and I couldn't do it
Thanks for this explanation. It's very clear.
The sensory issues for me cover both of the things you describe. Dis-regulation, yes, yes, yes. Being able to "endure" a sensory aversion but later being excessively drained, absolutely.
I have already self diagnosed as combined ADHD, but understanding that it is also ASD made it all click into place.
I'm with you about rushing for deadlines. It's killing me I think because my current job has multiple, challenging, overlapping deadlines. They are all "crucial" (some actually are 😅) and some involving public display of one's work with multiple people invited to throw in all of their comments to "help" us critically reflect...
Insert random stream of bad words here...
For me getting boring things done is an autistic inertia problem. Once I get going no issue. But getting started costs lot of spoons. Sensory issues are not big deal till it is a big deal. Depends on my spoons I have to deal with it.
I'm quite like that myself but i definitely have ADHD & ASD combination and have been diagnosed as such.
So i think you would benefit greatly from a proper ADHD assessment.
Because the older we get the more difficult it will become to deal with it without any help or medication.
There's no online test you can take that's going to be anywhere nearly as good as an official proper assessment.
And being really careful to avoid mistakes is more to avoid the Dyslexia causing us to make any if we go too fast.
I used to even think i didn't have dyslexia at all because i was always so slow and careful to avoid making any so i wouldn't look like an incompetent fool to anyone.
But eventually i got to 2020 and like so many people i did proper research and realized i did have it, so i got an assessment and it was nothing more than a formality by then.
8:20 That is a stressful nightmare, but that doesn't mean you won't repeat it every time. I don't know whether I have either condition, but that's my experience.
At some point it would be interesting to hear your perspective on AuDHD. I have an official diagnosis of ADHD (which I usually ignored because for much of my life I was very good at compensating, which I called "managing") but am more and more convinced that I am at least somewhat on the spectrum in terms of the variety of somewhat opposing ways my executive function fails me.
I used to say I had a will of iron, which is how I have always gotten through tasks that require knuckling down and getting things done. The stress of procrastinating until the last minute can make me almost physically ill. But now I suspect said "will of iron" is just a more ASD side of me and what I am noticing more and more is how much the negotiations between the different sides take a toll in terms of energy.
So, yeah, please consider a video on some of the ways you've seen this combination play out (I'm sure the variety is almost endless, but I'm very curious!)
PS - I TOTALLY agree with your conclusion! I've been trying to stop looking at the labels and to learn more about precisely the flow of events with various executive functions to just be able to figure out a) what is going with me at the moment and b) what can I do about it given the current reality I am in (and yes, often my conclusion is the need to change my reality, but that can be complicated and take time!!)
Self-imposed crunch time through procrastination is a weird thing. The almost manic hyperfocus on the task leads to an intense rush of satisfaction and achievement at the end of the task and often the results are exemplary. The kicker is, that spending a week on a project and iterating almost always provides a better result and is an overall better objective payoff, but it doesn't give you that same cathartic ending. In gaming terms, it's the difference between a regular achievement and the Call of Duty in-game level-up where a loud, bombastic power chord plays and a message flashes up in front of your eyes.
Your presentations my be the best I've found on the internet. A couple of books I've read had been lacking as well.
Excellent, helpful explanations and examples, thanks so much. Knowledge is power. Neurodiversity is complicated.
What you said at the end about not trying to separate autism and ADHD was very well put. I believe many people may get misdiagnosed or have their experiences invalidated when a professional strictly follows the diagnostic guideline for one or the other. I have heard quite a few times said by a professional in the field that there is no overlap between ADHD and autism.
Can we throw perfectionism into the mix? Particularly where it adds to the apprehension of actually trying, despite the rationalisation that good enough is actually good enough ie. a pass, credit in a tough and unfamiliar class, going to work and not being reprimanded for forgetting what your boss is saying while he's saying it because your job is meaningless to you and just a way to try to stay warm 😊 and feeling old as f.. while you are trying to basic adult
Sorting through (likely autistic) tbi’s ptsd and sensory overload to a (90%) homebound degree and then it might be adhd too? An abundance of diagnoses to untangle. I think that speaking about it as the range of neuro-cognitive spectrum of humans and that the bell curve defines neurotypical experirnce/perception/context and then understanding outside the curve (us) in terms of this series of neuro cognitive operations in a human seems maybe helpful. It is SO helpful to understand what is happening w my brain/syatem better. I understand that I am past my threshold sooner and can duck out for a break before I start to red line and make kind accommodations for myself vs berating myself because I can’t transcend sensory overload or got what someone said wrong. It’s very empowering and I would love to have a chance to think/talk w others w coaching training (I was an instructor/pro) and special interest in neurological system/brain/mind/energetic reality. Thank you!!!!!
Thank you for this video. Such an exiting topic! It really reasonated with me. I would love to watch more videos from you on the differences between Autism and ADHD. You explain it so well👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you for this very clear and helpful video. The last section is particularly relevant to some conversations I have been having with friends recently.
Really great video. Thank you Paul.
8:22 i fully agree with you, i would *much rather* do it slowly, carefully, on my own time, not rushed... But as someone with asd and adhd, its just... Its not *interesting* enough to *merit* all the time spent doing it carefully. If a task is interesting, i will spend all day on it happily. But if it's not, there's just... I want to get it out of the way, but when i think of all the other things i could be doing at the moment, it just feels like a horrible use of time. Time effiency is such a powerful concern.
8:48 this is also what happens
This was excellent, thank you.
So helpful! Thank you!
Big thanks for explaining the need for routine! I'm trying to explain this to my wife but couldn't pick up the right wording. I have noticed my son is the same hyposensitive, systematic autistic boy which love his routines, he has no other problem than lack of social skill (which is a big deal). Logically my problem is how to prepare him for school next year. But going back to video subject. The son of my friend was diagnosed having autism, ADHD and Anxiety from his school. From 2 years + I'm observing all autistic kids I know, and from my experience with this boy, I strongly believe he doesn't have ADHD, but high anxiety makes people believe he has ADHD. He is sitting calm, quiet, playing his ipad for hours but if he feels someone is offending him verbally he will react most likely triggered by anxiety. So video for autistic ADHD vs anxiety will be nice.
Comorbid anxiety as an attenuating factor would indeed be a worthy addition. There are days when I wonder if ADHD + GAD could have gotten me where I am without autism.
I will note that hyperfocus is a big thing with ADHD too, and it’s plausible for kid or adult to sit engrossed in a video game for hours. I can also sit quite still at times, which I think is partly Freeze at work. I’m usually lost in my head or overwhelmed.
The H in ADHD stands for hyperactivity and refers to what's going on in our brains, not necessarily body movement. And it's common for us to be hypersensitive to any perceived criticism.
Diagnosed with asd without adhd. People are usually surprised by this because most assume that if you're asd then you must also have adhd also. 🤦🏾♀️
I have experienced this too.
Procrastination is a stressful nightmare! Yet I often feel that intense aversion to boring tasks. On my better days I am able to remind myself that my future self won’t want to do this either, and since I have time to do it right now I should just take care of it. This strategy seems to compel the logical side of my brain to take action and push through my resistance.
I have the SAME breakfast every day, and have done so for YEARS! 👍😋
I would rather DIE than do boring and repetitive tasks! ... So, I'm very much of the Quentin Crisp 'school of dusting!' 🤣
Procrastination is my middle name! ... Particularly when it comes to DUSTING! ... I usually procrastinate, until the dust is thick enough to roll-up, and put in the dustbin! 👍🤣
Quentin Crisp is one of my favourite real life characters. Naked civil servant.
Dusting? What’s that...?
(Kidding. I’m the same though.)
I procrastinate even when I like doing something. The stress of a deadline coming up gives me energy to finish a project.
But I used to have an exceptional memory and didn't need to study for exams very much. So while I might stay up all night finishing a project, I always got a good night's sleep before exams.
I think that I have ADHD but the autism traits are stronger in me .
Thanks that’s rather useful. I see the abilities I wish I had!
Thanks for the video 😊
Hmm. I’m AuDHD but I check things cos I know I miss them, so for a test to tell me I’m not ADHD that fast is worrying to me. I was written off by the first ADHD assessor I saw too, luckily could access a second opinion on the NHS after a second wait of 18 months. Still waiting for the autism assessment.
As someone with AuDHD... yeah, having to do things at the last minute, often by skipping sleep, _is_ a stressful nightmare. I know. I know the entire time I'm procrastinating. Which makes *that* even more stressful too.
I really want to take your last point to heart that it's more like an array of traits that don't fit under one definition or another very cleanly. I feel like I'm both and neither, and that is really tough to deal with.
Chances are you are both
Very informative. I have been doing a lot of mental health research. Trying to learn more on how my mind works. I have recently been researching ADHD for at least a couple of days now. Trying to figure out what might be causing my current lack of motivation. I can definitely relate to some of the trait of ADHD. However. I am not certain that I have it or not. I do know for certain is that I am an autistic person. And was originally diagnosed having Aspergers Syndrome.
I was assuming that I have ADHD traits because I tend to set a goal that I want to reach and then eventually lose interest in that goal while setting a new goal and then eventually lose interest in that goal while setting a new goal for myself and then eventually lose interest in that goal while setting a new goal for myself. But my mother still doesn't think I have any ADHD traits and feels that I just have autism without any traits of ADHD
Mothers don't always know best.
You could have a.d.d and autism but idk you and there could be more traits I have no idea of
@@SarahG-vz3ki , all I know for absolute sure is that I have autism since autism was part of my medical record ever since I started displaying some very odd behavior during preschool.
People close to us don't always see us clearly, even if they know us well. They may not notice, or downplay, faults while exaggerating our good points. The reverse can be true, too. Emotions play a role in how we perceive things, as do shared experiences and an understanding of *why* we say and do certain things.
With parents there can be other factors in play. If you're diagnosed with certain conditions, parents may feel guilty, as if they're at fault for your condition, especially if there's a genetic or environmental component they supplied. So denial can be a self-defence mechanism for them. If you're diagnosed as an adult, it may be even worse for them because that means they spent your entire childhood not noticing, ignoring, or refusing to accept the relevant traits.
For others it might not be guilt, but pride and/or shame. This kind either refuse to believe or accept the possibility of a family member being 'flawed' (from their point of view). Or if they do believe it they may feel ashamed (of that person) and try to conceal them from public view, or hide their relationship to them. Or they may reject them completely and either eject the 'flawed' person from the family or remove themselves from the family and maintain distance from them.
There may be other factors at play, too. Whatever those factors are, many parents refuse to have their minor children assessed, while others reject the diagnoses of their children, whether as minors or adults.
Honestly its really interesting to think like... Yeah, what if the terms autism and adhd *are* overly reductive? Maybe seeing them differently *is* the answer? Interesting...
I 100% agree that we need a general theory of neurodiversity
Hi Paul, believing others but not being believed, as Francesca Happé puts it, can you address this trait some time please? I think it's been at least one of my major issues in life, especially as a woman, and especially in regard to climate change, since our first cc conference here in Australia in 1988. Thankyou for being here and doing this work, you are so very appreciated ❤️❤️❤️
Sometimes it can be difficult to trace back if there is really ASS alongside ADHD or if it's a really strong coping mechanism. You have to really dig what the main motivator is. Furthermore, a collegue explained to me that there is research that ADHDers when overstimulated tend to exhibit a change in behavior that can look a bit like ASS (more rigid need for routine, hyperfocus, drop in social skills) and with ASS it can be the other way around, overstimulated they can exhibit a change in behavior that can look more like ADHD (not being able to hold on to their structure, avoiding planning to prevent having to change plans, absend-mindedness and sudden drop in memory function.
When both syndroms are present I guess it can differ between these two categories? ❤
Definitely now makes sense as it’s different when my traits crossover with my potential adhd partner
Hi! I have a question. Is it undoubtedly inheritable or you can pass it to your kids with a kind of ''behavioural pattern'' involuntarily?
This is interesting because I’m diagnosed autistic (non-ADHD) and my partner is in the process of getting diagnosed as autistic and ADHD, and we’re often confused by the differences between our neurodivergences!
I zoned out, like, 30 times while watching this video, while being annoyed by the dehumidifier, cold feet and a crease in my pants. Might be both, Idk. lol
Hey Paul, last year you had an evaluation for neurofeedback. I wonder whether you had the treatments or not, and whether you got any benefit?
"My Autistic need to check & double check..." say no more my buddy. I'm right there with you on that! 🤣 I just went and took the test again on the site you used in your video & only scored a 3... all around struggling to organize plans mostly or how to start a project. It's mostly because I have slow processing though. Once I get a plan worked out, I stick to it and get the task done! I may "get there weird" to normies but I'm like "pfft but I got there!" 😂 Look, just because we take scenic routes or short cuts doesn't mean our end result is any less than someone else's! Getting a task done & feeling proud of what you've accomplished is the important thing! We have the rest of our lives to find better & easier ways to do things. The first time is always the hardest & that's why just doing it the best you can to get it done is the most important first step. You'll discover better ways by doing (or watching others like I do to think "would this be a better way for me to try?") Edited to leave a shout out to MidwestMagicCleaning here on UA-cam! I cleaned the bathroom in 5 minutes today with a few simple tools (Quick n Brite all purpose cleaner in a container - no overwhelming chemical smell & it's safe to use without gloves & safe for the environment, children & pets!, alcohol & dawn as well as microfiber reusable cloths.) No scrubbing & I'm a happy camper! I'm learning how to organize from him ☺
I think that as I am getting older (I retired from paid work 4 years ago), the ADHD is coming more to the fore whereas, for most of my life, autistic traits were more dominant. But really, it's a mish-mash and not a simple matter to tease out one from the otger.
Man I swear I have both and the attention/inattention thing is literally both me every day at work. I’ll completely skim things in a rush for no apparent reason it won’t make sense and I then immediately will go back and reread it all meticulously. Lmao.
After living in London and being subject to lots of stress, I recognise some of the ADHD traits but quite light.. How is that possible?
8:31 I would also like this.
This video was very confusing to me. Diagnosed ASD, and I’ve always thought of myself as “autistic with some of the executive functioning difficulties of ADHD” because I have zero energy and don’t present like my ADHD friends. But the way you describe sticking to a routine, doing boring tasks and reactions to sensory stimuli I fall solidly into your description of ADHD. I don’t think I’d ever get a diagnosis though because I can attend to things well enough to get by
For me as an autistic person it’s tricky to say I have both. I go back and forth. Some examples consist of: yes I used to be bad with losing and misplacing things when I was younger. When I was in camp I used to bring my ds on field trips and I have lost a lot of good games for it. I lost my first cellphone in 6th grade. One time I thought I left my phone at someone’s house then realized I was sitting on it the whole time freshman year of high school. For a while I didn’t bring my phone anywhere in fear of losing it. I lost the keys to my locker freshman year of high school and my bully gave me a hard time about it by telling my not to drop a laptop and I said I was responsible and she responded with “responsible like when you lost your keys”. When I was on a trip for camp we were given tickets to get into the event and my counselor asked me if I had one and I said yes cause I was easily distracted probably so I was pretending to acknowledge what she said. So when we got to the thing I was asked for a ticket and I was like “what ticket”. But I think there was a spare one I’m guessing so I was good. But my counselor wanted to kill me in that moment. As an adult and in my late teens I’m super cautious about having my things. When I’m not in my home I almost always have my purse on me at all times in case I lose something. When I was in school with my homework I usually do homework at school so I can have fun at home. In college I discovered I’m a pretty good procrastinator. I have an excellent long term memory, but my working memory isn’t great. I have low processing speed. When I was a kid often when I was a kid when given reading assignments while I know how to read I often have a hard time remembering what I read and miss important detail. But there were some exceptions like when we were given a choice of what to read on our independent time I was able to hyperfocus. When I was in elementary school and middle school I would often get called out by my teachers for being in my own world when I was supposed to be paying attention. When I was paying attention especially in high school when I knew the material I would have a hard time waiting my turn to speak and call out answers. I have a high social drive when I’m out in public a lot of the times, but I often need a lot of down time to be by myself. So do I also have adhd? I don’t know that would require me getting into specifics about my life and not just yes or no answers from online tests. There are a lot of things that I used to do but don’t do anymore and stuff that I still do so that’s another reason why it’s complicated.
WOW!! For not being ADHD, you sure seem to get what it's like. Of course, you've done your research.
His descriptions of the common experiences that ADHDers do experience are pretty accurate, but in multiple cases here describes the autistic experience as if they're discrete from ADHD
I don't understand the difference between the executive function differences discussed AT ALL, though I think the explanation was plenty clear, even more than most discussions on the topic. Are we saying that most people KNOW these things about oneself? If you're eating the same thing for dinner three nights in a row, you're sitting there eating it metacognitively AWARE of the fact that you're doing it either because you like routine to minimize decision making or because of decision paralysis (or some other option)? And you know the difference in the moment and aren't guessing about it afterwards? And you feel the same way all or most of the time?
I have ASD-2 and Severe ADHD. I can easily pass that test and show as either non-ADHD or non-Autistic. Intelligence plays a factor; skimming does not mean you missed the details either.
Personally, I do not like the distinction between the two. Both describe an inability to regulate certain behaviors or functions. To me this implies an underlying condition about how the brain does the regulation. And may not have any bearing on the end result of which behaviors are most effected.
I seem to have symptoms from both and missing symptoms from both
I would be interested to know which ADHD test is mentioned, here.
I see Paul, i push like.
Great content as always but the long pauses between sections is driving my autistic brain crazy aaargh
I want to suggest something here on this channel, and I'm going to suggest it on some of the other prominent "autism channels," too. Here it is, and what do you think about it: could a key aspect of autistic cognition be a relative absence of default, intrinsic, implicit assumptions? I could write paragraphs and paragraphs here elaborating the idea, but I won't. All I'll say is, think about it. And that something about it screams experiential truth to me. (One outgrowth of this would be the intensity of "special interests" which form our experiential framework and cognitive reference points/assumptions.)
I was quite strongly sure I have only autism, and I am going through an ADHD assessment to medically confirm autism, so the doctor naturally wants to determine if I also have ADHD or not. It seems unclear to him, and now to me too. And your video makes it even more foggy.
Structure is useful to me clearly to reduce the number of options to make a decision, but there are some things that I really want to do or avoid, although it's rarely "new" things ; I often really want an ice cream, but i'll take the same as usual, or might try something new if my "safe choice" is at reach (I can take it from my freezer if I'm disappointed by the other option I chose).
I'm not sure if I have the ability to push me through something. It depends on what. If I know why I must do it, I will be able to, even if it's super boring. That is why I too often give priority to what I need to do rather than taking care of myself by doing something I like. I usually avoid working under time pressure, but I believe that rarely there is a situation where I can be more effective that way. Can't think of an example right now though. Anyway, natural motivation really helps and affects my priorities, and whatever people try to get me to do MUST be meaningful, otherwise I remove myself from the situation/the group.
Sensory overload can drive me insane and cause me to collapse or explode when I can't control it or choose what I agree to go through with a lot of effort. Sensory overload in the evening (even when I choose to go to an event) often causes me to not sleep at all the following night, as it needs to be processed and brought down before being able to sleep and that takes hours. But that kind of reaction corresponds to a meltdown, doesn't it?
If anyone has a useful comment to share regarding the profile I describe here, it could help :-)
Take things easier for life
I get lost in your videos! It's very hard/almost impossible for me to tell when you are switching from talking about ADHD to talking about
autism (or vice-versa)!!
So early comment I'll probably delete, but I have ADHD Primary inattentive, and what you are saying makes me wonder if I could have autism or my copping mechanisms of rereading things cause I know im going to miss something just looks kinda like autism ... either way cool video
💯
I have both
Hmmm, i wonder again... I'm definitely autistic but apparently I'm also ADHD, according to my psy. The thing is it never felt right to me... Especially on the attention side, that's clearly the autism, if you leave me alone and in quiet i will be fine, though I'll hyperfocus and not stop untill I'm exhausted. But if you interrupt me, put me in a noisy place and with artificial lights, I'll get exhausted very quickly and I won't be able to do much. Plus after about an hour or 2 I'll get extremely angry and frustrated. The thing that eventually convinced me about the ADHD was the hyperactive part, since I can't hold still, i hate sitting, especially if i have to sit like "normal people", i fidget non stop, and i always have 100 things going on at the same time. 100 parallel thoughts, 100 plans to do things, all my days are packed untill i simply get too exhausted and spend a few weeks doing nothing because I can't do anything anymore, the need to "walk my thoughts" so they don't drive me nuts... But I'm still wondering a lot since I'm now trying ADHD meds after my psy finally convinced me but they don't seem to do anything for me. She told me people take them because it makes such a difference, but for me, except the fact that i suddenly feel exhausted at the end of the day, they really have no effect. If it's noisy and too much stimulus i still get exhausted just the same, can't concentrate etc. If i hyperfocus I won't stop just because the meds are wearing off and i feel like I'm about to fall over if i move, i physically need to finish what I've started. So idk, I'm still very much in doubt about it.
Did I understand correctly that emotional dysregulation caused by sensory discomfort is discretely an ADHD thing? Or did you speak of your experience only? Never heard it before, I thought that the trait applied to autism too. Sorry about the potentially dumb question. 😬
I do somethings and then go sleep 💤 to relax myself
It's apparently easier to prescribe medication for ADHD than for ASD.
Do i have to have sensory essuse to have autism
I'm obviously both