Military M18 Pistol vs Commercial M18: What's the difference? (Sig Sauer M18 Contract Overrun)
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Video overview detailing the differences between a commercial Sig Sauer M18 and a contact overrun M18 built for the military. Thanks for watching!
My insta: / inferior_rifles
wonder what the difference in recoil springs is
Recoil springs on military guns are stiffer for use with +P ammo, good catch. I forgot to mention it in the video.
@@InferiorRifles Yep. NATO spec ammo is SAMMI Spec +P.
@@InferiorRifles I noticed the difference, too. Your explanation makes sense, since issue pistols should rarely, if ever, shoot lighter commercial ammo. NOW I need to find some ammo comparable to milspec, to see how it runs in my commercial pistol.
NATO m1152 ball ammo is extremely hot and will penetrate super deep, those rounds out of a 4.5 will chrono nearly 1400 fps and are no joke at nearly 500 ft lbs.Not your gramps old 45acp ball gi ammo.
@@paulscountry456 Wow. I had heard that NATO 9mm ball was hot, but not THAT hot! That's a pistol-breaker load!
The sights on the commercial version are lengthened to accomodate those two mounting screws. I actually just spoke with a rep from Sig yesterday regarding this and the new M17 optic they showed off at SHOT. That M17 is only compatible with the military single-screw mount and is not slated for commercial release at this time. They are working on ways to adapt it, but that won't be a reality for a while.
Thanks for the info. I feel relieved. Now I just need to figure out which kidney to sell to get one.
Dang. Glad you mentioned this. I'm after that new optic as well. Hopefully I can snag one of these but don't know where to get them
@@Whiskey.Tango.Actual As I understand it, that sight is a military release only at this time. The rep that I spoke with was NOT happy that they showcased the optic at all since it is not compatible with commercial guns. As I said, they are apparently trying to make a version that can be sold commercially, but it doesn't sound like that will be a reality for some time. The issue is the closed emitter, the low profile that allows it to co-witness with standard height sights, and the overall layout of the sight. I'm sure they will figure it out, but it's going to be a minute....
@@HawaiiFoodAndFun make friends with someone in the military supply chain.....
@@MichaelTravis12c27 so are you thinking it'll be highly unlikely us now in the first Civ Div will actually be able to get the new optic? Even if we have the correct slide?
Thanks! I didn't realize there were so many differences; I thought it was just the slide markings--and the price. Collector value will make the 'contract' guns far more expensive.
Followon: I just saw a GI 'overrun' at my local gun store for mid-$600s. Needless to say, I was surprised and very tempted...
I mean it doesn’t really matter when you start modding the gun unless you just want the contract badge on it
@@Duran762 As good a reason as any, I suppose. 👍
I have one of the Military M18s. I did a detailed comparison with the Commercial M18. The Military M18 has a "P" stamped on the side of the barrel. You have to disassemble the firearm
to see it. This is the standard "Military Proof Mark" and is not present on the Commercial M18. Being a Retired Marine, I love having the real deal.
Just got a M17, didn’t know there was a difference but I got the contract version, you’re right nothing like that feeling of having the real deal. 😄 Semper Fi.
ORAH Same here. I picked mine up a MCX Hawaii store
@@Chief_5 how do you get ahold of a contract version
@@viktosmarine1674 military and LEO can buy contract
What do you mean real deal they both shoot 9mm at the end of the day 😂 when you start upgrading the gun those differences from factory dont matter no more
Commercial version has green night sights on the rear and the military version has orange night sights on the rear. The extractor pin on the military version needs a torx bit to remove where the commercial version does not. Also, the coyote brown PVD on the slide varies. I have seen military versions of the M18 that do in fact have the darker finish like the commercial one in your video. Maybe it's just a batch color variance. I think that there may be more corrosion resistant coatings on the military FCU as well. Not sure about that.
There is a rumor that some contract over run m17s are coming out with the TF prefix being offered to LE/military program first
Thank you for the video brother, I'm eyeing one of these as my first pistol, currently just own a 716i
Slide is heavier, coating is army trade secrets, recoil spring is heavier, nights sights are different color, rear plate is single screw, too take slide apart requires spinner wrench. ..fcu has special coating as well.
Damn, I had to scroll way down to finally read a comment where someone actually knew the differences.
I found the commercial P320 springs to be heavier than all the M18s we have received. At least providing more tension upon assembly.
The difference is the military model is fitted with a pretension barrel/slide fitment with accommodating recoil spring assembly. These guns (and top ends) are designed specifically to cycle the MHS ammunition M1152, which is a hot loaded 9MM cartridge similar to what is commonly referred to as “NATO” 9MM.
Yes I found a hard to find Black P 320 M18 and I love it..
dang milwaukee tools is really stepping their game up
The Sig Nitron finish is just super tough, the most durable coating that is not a plate I have ever seen.
If this is a correctly marked m18, it will have 3 lines on the right side of barrel of markings, plus a p on the under, and on the left side it will also be marked on the barrel. it will also have markings under the slide in the area where the barrel sits. It would be really cool if you could show these markings by taking the barrel out of the slide. Cheers
The TDP tolerance stack up and the barrel to slide interfaces are much tighter on the contract guns. This was an accuracy requirement by the DOD. Strait from my sig rep.
This is correct, Contract pistols have a tighter interface between the Barrel and slide
Have fired both and saw no difference in accuracy. And most shooting being 25 yds or less anyway. First I have heard of DoD requiring less distance barrel to slide interface as part of contract. Would like to find out if that is in print somewhere. People I work with have been very curious about this very thing.
I have the m18 and didn't realize there were differences.
So the one difference I did find from being issued one and owning one was the recoil spring. The issued ones were circular where it rests on the barrel and the commercial had flat sides (2 short, 2 long) and could only be seated in a certain way when being reassembled. Function and all, the coating on the slide would wear a bit easily and could notice the discoloration when it got warm for the issued ones we had. It wasn't like the very first batches where the controls were also fde color, it was the newer ones where the serials started with TF and the controls were black too
I notice the lever slide catch is different as well. My M17 slide catch has 2 horizontal lines, where as yours in this video has 3 horizontal lines.
They actually have two different slide catches available in the regular market. The early one was smaller and I believe the made it a little larger for people, however some people preferred the smaller catch depending on how they shoot.
Those rear sights are notorious for coming off while firing. I'd take it apart and Locktite it before you shoot it.
There needs to be a review of what glue holds these things together best. 👍
@Rick Nethery's Firearm Channel from what I've heard a little bit of blue locktite will work just fine, and it is what Sig recommends, Sig just "forgot" to do it at the factory.
Thanks
1911s & M9s are iconic miltary handguns that we all either own or want to own. I just can't see ever wanting one of these Sigs.
whats wild is i just realized that i have a colt 45 1911, gen 3 g19, and now the sig m18(def gonna change grip to the m1811) 3 diff generations of military weaponry + my ar
@@MissingDeeds when was the Glock 19 military issue? You're missing the Beretta M9.
@@randomgamer-st1ie oh ik the m9 is one. Seal team had the gen 3 g19 I believe
@@randomgamer-st1ie that’s why they lost the main contract for side arms. Sig beat out Glock for this decade new contract or whatever
All M18s&M17s are on the same assembly line now. At first they kept things separate but now it is all the same. Especially in my experience the National Guard M18s/M17s are the exact same they sell to everyone else. They say P320 along side the M18 mark and come in a hard case like you would get at the store.
Source-CO Army National Guard.
Not sure the difference but we just got in over 200 M18s packaged and marked like in the vid. with no P320 marking. Ours were packaged in Jan this year and received a few weeks ago (cardboard box).
Love my P320, but have changed out the trigger, grip module, miled the slide to lighten it up, added a gas pedal and had it coated in dark bronze. It doesn't fire anywhere close to what it did when I first bought it, but it's a far better pistol.
Crazy how you have to change everything to make it good lmfao
My only real complaint is the way optics are installed on to the slide. The newer Sigs like the AXG Scorpion changed that with a removable plate that is unscrewed from the top instead of the bottom of the slide and the rear sight stays on the gun.
The optic for this gun doesn’t loos rear sight. Look up Romeo-m17 optic.
The new p320s aren't like that anymore. They will either have the cut ahead of the irons or no irons at all.
Can you share how much this pistol is/was sold for?
They are not one peice, the optic that will win the army control is the Romeo-M17 optic and in that the rear sight will go on that.
Are they selling your version as a regular item or is it surplus? I have an M18 Commemorative and it has coyote color controls. I also have the commercial version. Sweet gun!
Supposedly, only a handful of the contract overrun pistols were released to the civilian market. There are M17 contract overruns available with a TF serial number prefix. Remains to be seen if Sig will continue to release more for civilians.
How were you able to purchase the military version? That’s pretty cool!
Thank you for this interesting video. I have two commercial versions of the P320, one close to the M18 but definitely not the same as you note.
Why did the book say both M17 and M18?
What is the difference?
M17 had longer barrel (one inch longer).
Did the contract M18 comes with a +P recoil spring like the contract issue M17? I have a commercial M18 and a milsurp M17 with FDE controls and the slide finishes are the same. I don’t recall if there is a +P spring in the M17 case but the M17 is issued with 2 springs.
Wish they would do the rear optic cut like they are currently doing that retains the rear irons! Also I think that's PVD coated if I'm not mistaken. Also your loaded chamber indicator isn't on the commercial model. Also, the QR code I don't believe is on the earlier commercial models.
theres no such thing as a ""civilian" model""
@@glcartm ok non military. Its just a descriptor to define which version im discussing no need to get upset.
Way interesting video! Thanks!
I thought the actual military issue pistols had all FGDE hardware too, like the trigger and safety lever. Also, isn't there some sort of lock that prevents it from being fully disassembled except by the armorer? Or is the specifically a Marine versions as opposed to the Army version?
Only the first “batch” of pistols had FDE controls, all issued guns moving forward will have black controls.
The “lock” was an idea that was tossed around but was never implemented.
@@InferiorRifles Ah, interesting, Thx.
Correct. The initial field tested batch had the FDE PVD controls. I have one that was issued and deployed to Iraq. The Army didn’t like how the PVD finish would wear so they asked to have them switched with black controls. The FDE control pistols were then swapped out and put into surplus status and released to the civ market to help recoup costs and as a huge plus to collectors. The rear takedown lock you speak of that was initially pictured in some of the early trial putouts was never implemented and did not go into wide production. Even the Sig employees cannot get hands on one as they were not part of the contract guns.
@@OttoTheWeim Thx.
For all the comments about the slide not being in battery, it doesn't really matter. It'll still fire that way just fine. If it's really that big of a deal, just swap recoil spring out with the civilian one.
I’d like to think our US Military would prefer a gun that goes into battery
@@outdawrzmuhn it fires just fine out of battery. I have one myself. Just for the fun of it, I always fire the first round with the slide back a little.
@@spookydookees4399 @David_1 this topic has been covered in other comments. The tight lockup between the barrel and slide is intentional to increase accuracy, and does not affect function when firing.
www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/P320_Pretension___information_sharing/14-173444/
@@InferiorRifles Some M18s have been reported to be developing a ring of metalic buildup in the back of the barrel that actually prevents the round from seating enough to close the action and fire - at least when trying to use military ball ammo. I have seen this personally at work. Sig recommended other ammo than military ball is what I understood.
So like you said the contractor and commercial sights the biggest difference. Contractor Issued rear sight falls off randomly, reason too much racking the slide back wrongly. I’ve seen while on the range happen several times. The Commercial i’ve not heard any issues, since it’s bolted down as one piece so i’d say commercial is reliable
It's a carry size just for future reference, compact is smaller and shorter grip as well as slide, with a 15 round mag.
How does one acquire a contract M18 instead of the commercial version?
...just a quick note, i have an m18 Marine Corps commemorative- i'd noticed that the safety, the slide lock, and the takedown pin
So how did you get the military grade one??
Once you lift off the surplus M18 rear sight, do they have the same optical cut and screw hole pattern?
See him push the slide forward? Same as the one I checked out today.....any answers? Just sent ours back to sig
The tight fit between the barrel and slide is intentional. More info below
www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/P320_Pretension___information_sharing/14-173444/
Will the military contract M18 run the 147gr like Gold Dot or the HST? I know the recoil spring is stiffer, so curious if it will cycle these defense loads or do I need to swap out the spring for the commercial variant.
Have compared recoil springs between M18s and two P320s. The P320 springs provided more tension upon assembly every time. Just my opinion but I feel like the commercial spring is better.
I must say, its strange you say if you mount a laser/red dot you loose the rear sight. On my M17 P320 4.7 Xfull, which came equipped with the Romio1 pro, my rear sight (that short you have) is still in place, and I can use it should the battery die or so.
The X full is not an M17. You’re talking about a different pistol with a different optic/rear sight configuration entirely.
@@InferiorRifles Really? I see,,, Perhaps those dealers didn't know anything about their inventory, like when they said, "Its the same pistol, except without the M17 marking", emphasis was more in sales.. I do like the fact I can pop that trigger assbly out and drop in a different frame; .357 or 40. Fantastic pistol. I chose that one because (my preferred choice) the P226 was not available at that time.
Sorry, I meant, pop the FCU out,, I may also go with the traditional trigger, rather than this straight type.
USAF Security Forces also carries the Sig M18.
Are the commercial ones not durable and long lasting as the military version
Does anyone know if the M17/18 is set to serve the military until a certain date? How long will it be the official sidearm of the army in other words?
It's actually a carry model ( in SIGese), not a compact. Please don't kill the messenger.
Looking at online shops and local gun stores. None of them are the commercial M18 color shown in this video.
TC prefix are very rare right now. I picked up 2 a few weeks ago and they were running. $750. I bought them on a military base and they only were given 5 from the distributor.
I googled this once and got the parts were a different color then civilian. Slide release etc.
I have both commemorative editions 😮
What sucks, the new sig's red dot is made to be mounted with that single hole on the rear. So whoever has the commercial version would have to drill their slide...
That sounds like a terrible design. Like one screw holding the optic in place ?
@@RedEyePergo it's actually not that bad, it is bolted on one side and hooked up on opposite side. If you ever had to remove sig optics cut cover you probably know what I am talking about. Otherwise look up Romeo m17, it's pretty cool. I just hate the being forced to drill my slide.
That is just for government contracts, they said the commercial version of the Romeo M17 will have a different footprint. It will surely be compatible with the commercial P320 slides.
Crazy part my X5 legion came with a QR for the manual. The basic batch 320 book was on back order for a while with the legion coin/bags till a month ago.
I have the commemorative edition and everything is the same as this one but the controls on mine are FDE
Great comparison
Really like my m18. July 2023
Can civilians get the contract M18?
Yes.
Would the m18 honestly be considered to large to practically conceal carry?
It's personal preference but in my opinion no the glock 19/19X I've noticed is a very common concealed carry and it is similar in size just find you a good in the waist holster or even get a belly band holster
@@iamhammerhead7491 thanks for the input! I actually carried a 19x for a while before I sold it and did like it so hopefully the m18 is also a good experience!
@@Lou_sassel315 personally I enjoy shooting the m18 more than I do the 19x it just feels nicer overall as a stock firearm in my opinion and no problem
Is they’re a stock number for this model?
Why did the slide not go back all the way at 2:30?
See the link below for your answer.
www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/P320_Pretension___information_sharing/14-173444/
How does one find the contract version?
The sights on the 320 rust if exposed to wet conditions. not a huge issue if you properly maintain your gun, but it could be an issue if these are issued to goofballs who don't do proper maintenance.
Don't all sights rust if exposed to wet conditions without proper maintenance?
@@bigdipper1454 no. Esepcially not easily
Great stuff.
Can you put optics on military issued?
My commemorative version has tan switches on the sides not black. Also the serial number prefix says M18-and a number. Not TC
The commemorative edition guns are based on the first batches of issued pistols. The black controls came later, as did different serial number prefixes.
Only a little question:why the point of the barrel goes up when the pistol is open?
That’s how pistols that use a Browning Tilting barrel action work. The barrel moves out of the way to “unlock” the slide and allow it to cycle. Most modern handguns use this design.
@@InferiorRifles thank a lot.
i thought all contract guns had coyote controls, vs the commercial black.
The first issued M17/M18 pistols had tan controls but they have since switched to black for both Mil and commercial guns.
I have seen multiple youtube videos of people shooting these and having jams.
I own over 20 pistol and have never had any jams on any of then except two chambered in .22LR
I had a pilot friend just pick one of these up had it jam on him too. Has anyone else experienced similar issues?
I want an M18. The only thing I can think of is they are all shooting the new maybe I need to clean them before shooting them IDK any input on actual owners of the M18 would be greatly appreciated.
Looks way different than my M18 Commemorative.
Because the Commemorative was based off of the pistol that Sig sent out for the MHS program trials. The MHS handgun was not the final version of the pistol that was issued to the services. Commemorative has FDE controls and is not currently being produced anymore.
@@bigdipper1454 No 💩 control colors are NOT what I'm talking about.
@@MrSmith-zy2bp What are you talking about then ?
Basically an upgraded recoil spring and all fde parts instead of Black parts
Would have been interesting to compare the trigger pull and as someone said, recoil spring and any other parts that could be seen on team down.
I really have a distain for this pistol already, having been issued it. Unecessarily complicated, I've seen alot of new soldiers take apart and put back together and then proceed to have trigger failures
Sounds like the soldiers just need to not have a room temperature IQ.
@@swampenjoyer443 your expectation is reasonable and still to high. They should try to sell simple shit to simple people. We still use the 50 cause it's simple and works.
@@swampenjoyer443 That isn't the problem. The gun will fail to fire sometimes (M18) upon reassembly. You take the slide back off, put it back on and it functions fine. Haven't got the answer yet. Working on it.
I'm a little pissed off, I thought when I bought both the M18 and M17 I was buying mil spec pistols, it's obvious the fire control groups and springs are different, As far as I'm concerned this is deceptive advertising
I've been to 417 a few times 😀
My dream pistol here
My commercial version M18 slide mat matches perfect to the frame. M1xxxxx serial….
FYI, only the Army uses the M17. USMC, Navy, and USAF all use the M18. At least SF/MP/MA's do.
Isn't the Military one have an internal coating
Where does this guy get all his military firearms?😂
Recoil spring is different than commercial
M17 = full size, m18 = carry, not compac. Both take flush 17rd magazines.
The USMC ones are military issue. The rest are navy. Those are army loaners
The M18 isn’t a Compact but a Carry version.
The frames on the p320/m17-m18 just feel so cheap to me.
No, the USAF went with the M-18 before the USMC.
they cut corners on the military version because it costs less to make
What “cut corners” are you referring to? If anything, the commercial guns are less expensive to produce.
@@InferiorRifles when producing mass production military grade firearms , Example the rear sight has more plastic or whatever the material it is on the firearm but the military grade one had less plastic on the rear sight. It’s not cutting corners but like enough to where production costs are slightly cheaper , gun still functions the same and is built correctly tho on both versions
@@starlord1177 more commercial guns are produced than their military counterparts.
Also, the plastic rear sights thing is nonsense. Both guns have entirely metal sights. You’ve got bad info
@@InferiorRifles noted.
TC: Tough Cookie.
Is there a difference in buying this compared to the commercial version with waiting time or qualification.
Slide release is different
I have both and my Glock 19x is better, 2014 p320 came out and to this day, still havn issue’s….shame on SIG.
Well at least since the military adopted the M18, SIG can't abandon the platform like they usually do. Eventually they'll actually have a good gun.
Glocks are glorified Hi Points.
Mine has m18 at the beginning of serial number, I think that’s cooler!
Looks like the slide release is different
Top of the barrel looks different too.
Excuse me. The Air Force uses the M-18 as well as Navy.
I don’t believe I stated otherwise in the video.
The one thing everyone missed: The barrel. The Army version has a much denser forged barrel that maintains tighter groups after several hundred rounds without rest. I don't remember the time frame for the test, but the metal has less time to cool in between shots. The civilian one will be smoked after 100 rounds. Its rediculous because it is. 🤣
The hundreds of reviews I’ve read people have sent upwards of 1,000 some more , closer 2,500 rounds with no malfunctions
@@bamuz Allow me to clarify: smoked as being too hot to maintain the original grouping pattern, not ruined.
@@scotteric8711 understood, do you think after market barrel would help?
For that price, they could of made a nice case for it.
I have the commercial version it comes in a plastic and foam case. Not much difference than this cardboard one.
Just don’t drop the damn thing! Sig can claim they have fixed the problem but, there are still lawsuits against the company from accidental discharges. Couldn’t give me one!
It's called Negligent Discharge.
@@johnhatchel9681 Really? I’ve seen the 320 go off when the pistol was in the holster. Luckily the individual was not hurt.
@@jwslks liar.
Beefed up part at 4:00?
wasted 2 weeks of my life test firing these for the army with a buncha other mil folks there. glad the issues were worked out, the first run was nothing but junkers. turns out actually submitting a modular handgun and coming in $60+ cheaper than than a glock per unit wins GOV contracts
Another Glock fanboy.
@@johnhatchel9681 a year old comment and a reply from someone w no reading comprehension. yeah, we all wanted glocks over the m17, easy ass choice 🤡
@@rustyshackleford9017 Just you dumba$$ fanboyyyyyyyyyy!
Very nice!
Price.