When I went to couples counselling with a narc, the counsellor was actually very good and saw through it. The counsellor (who was male) took me aside and told me there was no point in counselling to improve the relationship and it was a matter of either accepting the narc would never change or leaving the relationship altogether. He said if I chose to leave, he would choose me over the narc in regard to further therapy, as it was a conflict of interest to continue to see both of us. So refreshing to have someone tell you like it was. I left soon after and never once regretted it.
Glad for you. could you heal? And how did the NPD fare afterwards? Could you advise me on my family , please? I took them all (we were 5, Father dead now) to family counsellor for 5 sessions, of which I was the only one to turn up each time. She said to me that I was the only one really wanting change and that she couldn't talk to them. I still haven't got therapy to heal, am severely burnt out from searching , egtting mistreated instead(CPTSD, HSP, Co-Dependnecy (adult child of dysfunctional family) w Aspergers and bad Autoimmune D.) I haven't been able to assert myself among tehm, have recently stopped my crazy helping-caring but don't know what tpo do. am too sick and tired to help myself with the mistreatment from helathcvare going on. And I can't leave my family and we do belong togehter beyond our disturbances and wounds. I don't have any strong friends or social network to count on for assistence/real support. I have never got a big enough therapist, need extra spiritual maturity and competence.Do you have mirroring or advice, please? That would be good of you and I very grateful and glad.all the best to you!
@@Medietos I would focus on counseling just for yourself as that’s a lot to deal with - don’t try and fix people who are not open to change. My heart really goes out to adult children of NPD, it is far worse to experience it as a child.
Wow your therapist is great. My therapist asked me if I want to do couple's instead of individual. After three sessions, it was too painful and he won't let me talk so I quit. And I quit the whole therapy. After two years I am restarting the therapy and I am feeling my therapist does not have much understanding about the narcissism and ASPD. How did you find a therapist who is knowledgiable. My partner and charm through anyone.
I went out with a narcissist who got herself in trouble at work and went to counselling has a condition of keeping her job. She bragged to me that she went through the motions and told the counciller exactly what she wanted to hear. Says it all. To the narcissist, it's a game.
Yes, my daughter manipulated the therapist. I quit but glad she’s still going because it was a victory for her. Hoping the therapist will see enough to realize.
@@BarbaraHeffernan (Oh, sorry for capitals below..very tired..)When you answer "exactly", it sounds as though you agree with the the easily done generaklizTION OF npdS, WHICH IS DANGEROUS. eVERY HUMAN IS UNIQUE AND WE DO HIM WRONG BY LIMITING HIS POTENTIAL. eVERYBODY CAN GET BETTER, IF THEY GET THE RIGHT TREATMENT (PROFESSIONALLY AS WELL AS SOCIALLY) AND IF THEY want TO. wHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT rUSSELL bRAND'S HEALING FROM npd? beING QUIL´TE AWFUL AND HARMING PPL ? sEE HIM NOW, WHAT loving helpfulness HE gives. Do you find it right to point out sick ppl as the only faulty onwes, but never the therapists, - and what about yourself? This trend is harmful and hurtful, stop it! Do and teach shadowwork instead, and the NPDs won't get hold of us/others anymore, and some f´good cabn be done instead of wallowing in the evil of NPDs..
A lot of therapist are toxic. I've met a few who could care less about me. One of them fell asleep during a therapy session with me. I had another one telling me to not use contractions when speaking. Another one tried to undermine me. I had to change therapist a lot because I moved to different cities.
No. There is a need for that type of work to be done. However Narcissists are looking for the opportunity to fill their insatiable need to dominate underlings and be made to feel good about living off others adulation. They see it as their natural domain. Big business is another realm for them.
My ex female covert narcissist has gone to therapy for years which really threw me off until I realized the therapist was just another form of supply weekly.
Counseling is not working when nothing is changing after decades, and they are more and more unhappy and act out. The only thing they get is their sedatives and more narc supply. And the counselor becomes their only "friend" because no one else wants to be around them. Seen it. Finally went no contact. Lovely peace!
My toxic sister goes to a counsellor. She hasn't changed one bit. The counsellor sympathises with her and tells my sister exactly what she wants to hear. I'm sure the counsellor never challenges her. She's been hostile towards me all my life.
My cover narc ex-friend LOVES going to therapy. It's guaranteed supply, and she's admitted to me that she lies in therapy and/or omits the truth. As Barbara mentioned in this video, when narcs lie convincingly even therapists can't tell because they're not telepathic.
Sometimes a therapist will validate their feelings of being the victim as to create a safe place for them to share so they can help them. The narcissist will seize on that validation sometimes and stop all attempts to make a change.
They can be pretty emotionally draining. Very few narcissists will even go to the therapy office. Do they make lasting, sustainable change? 95+% of the time no. Some narcs even became more aware during therapy, and ended up being more effective manipulators. Personality disorders on the dark triad typically have a low prognosis of change. Don't get your hopes up if your partner is a true narc.
I have a feeling there is more than one of us who wishes the therapeutic profession at large was BETTER EDUCATED about narcissists and their infliction of narcissistic abuse on the people AROUND them@@BarbaraHeffernan
I'm married to someone who gave me a lot of heartache in our years together. My father has NPD (diagnosed) and his mother is too. My partner was incredibly egocentric and hurted me a lot, specially in our first couple of years together. When I decided I was done with everything, he went to therapy (2 years and counting) and a little after we started couples therapy (1 year ago). He changed so much that sometimes is hard do think about how he behaved before. Still, he thinks he's narcissistic, despite all the changes and his self awareness, and our couple's therapist thinks he has traits. When he's stressed out, he's still goes back to being really defensive and egocentric, but nothing like he used to be. He tries to be mindful every waking hour so he doesn't hurt me, but sometimes he still do (changing important agreements we made without talking to me, or doing things behind my back that he knows will hurt me - but nothing major, not like in the beginning), but I know he's been working really hard in the last year. Can he be narcissistic? If not, in those are just traits, do you think it's possible that he becomes a somewhat healthy person eventually? Or he will always hurt me in the same ways, from time to time? It's really confusing for me this "narcissists don't change" thing, because it is a spectrum, right? If so, those who don't fully qualify for the disorder, but have some traits, those people can be more "normal"? I'm sorry for the long question, but I never saw anyone talking about this, the correlation between the severity and the possibility to change. Thank you so much for your videos. I'll be waiting for the one about couples therapy
Oh sweetie. It's possible. Narcissistic traits are on a sliding scale. [good book on this is Rethinking Narcissism, by Craig Malkin, and he's here on UA-cam] Elinor Greenberg has written a book and she's on Quora. She has a lot of narcissistic clients. Raw Motivations, here on UA-cam, claims to be a self-aware, reformed narcissist. It's possible, but it's just rare. I went to sooo many therapists with my ex over the years, but after 34 years, in the end, when he had supply cut off at work, he went straight back to lying, cheating, and treating me horribly. It was like NONE of the HARD work and money and time we spent over those decades had made any difference at all. But we never knew what narcissism was and my ex was never confronted with this probability. He got worse with the years, more difficult. Individual therapy in his late 50's [I insisted on] was instantly turned into a source of supply and he became a monster at home. I remember an older woman once telling me, regarding marriage, that however things are starting out in a relationship, that's pretty much how they will be at the end of that relationship. My big tip? Watch what he DOES, not what he says. My ex could fake anything, would say anything, and sometimes for long stretches things seemed to be working out. Even for years, sort of. But it never lasted. Also, an older woman therapist asked me, at the end of the marriage, "Does he love you?" "Of course he does," I replied. So she asked, "Do you feel it? Do you FEEL loved? " I had to think for a long few minutes when I had to say, "No. I don't. I don't feel loved." She looked at me with kindness and said, gently, "Because if someone loves us, we can FEEL it." This was a revelation to me. I was 57 years old. Ugh. Good luck and big hugs.
I think on that spectrum there’s definitely room for possibilities of change, and learned behaviour is hard to break.I think we all have traits of many things, I can be a very unpleasant person when big changes occur because I crave certainty as the adult child of an alcoholic. It’s about being aware enough to recognise it in the moment and change course. Those few ways he is hurting you, he should be working on them hard.
I think he is one of those people with narcisistic traits, but not necessarily a narcisist. The fact that he, himself, thinks he might be a narcisist, shows that he is self aware. He even works on trying to better himself for you. Narcisists usually don’t do that. They dont even admit they are narcisistic. They think of themselves as pillars of virtue. The rest of the world is wrong.
I used to think exactly what you wrote about my situation even down to the 2 years of therapy on his own and it really took taking some time to get educated in therapy myself about the things that would have happened in our early relationship, to go back read the old messages seeing how they 100% matched the textbook superficial lovebombing and then watching the specific patterns in our relationship and learning how 2 identify his specific patterns for me to understand that he is probably a hybrid of a "Neglectful Narcissist" and "Covert narcissist". That he doesn't want to be a narcissist but that he is still driven by the disorder. I learned to notice when he's being hurtful. Oh, dismissive, extra rude, breaking agreements, being mean, being some form of abusive again ... started predictably seeing the pattern of how what would trigger the nice lovebombing/idealization to end & the abuse/devaluation to restart... usually it would be within days after me putting my guard down or being really extra close to him again or from him being extra frustrated about something and being mean /abusive to regulate ...I think it's really going to take you looking at your relationship with him and really starting to journal and document the relationship to see whether where/when/why love bombing and idealization of HIS specific flavor is happening. And then when/why the kindness is ending with HIS current version of abuse coming back with any type of pattern. I would strongly recommend that you get into a narcissistic abuse recovery support group, cluster B/toxic emotional abuse recovery support group or individual counseling for guidance on what is happening and to have a second set of ears help you sort through it. I really wish you the best. Please be safe.
Wow. I went through therapy with my ex-fiance and literally had the exact experiences you described here. He was angry, accusatory, dismissive, insulted the counselor's credentials, insisted that all our problems were entirely mine alone, and when confronted about his NPD, angrily stormed out never to return.
My Narc brother was like that, he was right & everyone else was wrong!! A therapist homed in on him & he ran-away like hell!! He told my baby brother & my sister-in-law, he had anti-social behavior!!
I think they can change. But the problem is they don’t want to change. It’s how they were rooted this way. I really empathize with narcissists, I really do even they have major issues. Because we don’t know what they had been through as a child….Childhood trauma can affect your personality, especially when they get triggered by young age. But they have no right to abuse innocent people and wreck their lives. Their hearts are so dark they can’t get out this hatred and anger circle. Nothing you can do about, just leave them, period. Narcissists are complex individuals. It comes from deep insecurities, projecting their anger and hatred. Narcissists hate themselves, they don’t deny it but they really do hate themselves….Thanks for the video lovely Barbara.
Oh my gosh Barbara, you nailed it! I want to thank you very much for this video! When you talked about the narcissist coming to therapy and how it would end, it so validated what happened with my husband. He would get three sessions in and come up with some excuse why we shouldn’t see the therapist anymore. And then, just as you said, he would tell me that it was more me that needed to go individually. We tried three times, each time of course it was up to me to find a therapist by myself, even though he was the one that seem to have strict criteria on who we saw. During the conversation the day he was ending our marriage of 12 years, I brought up couples counseling, and he said that you have to work on yourself before you can go to Couples counseling. Insane!
You have to work on yourself before couples counseling? Dunno about doing it before couples counseling, but you're going to have to work on yourself while you're _in_ couples counseling, for sure. He was projecting onto you and then using it as an excuse.
Fairley certain my mom has vulnerable narcissistic disorder, she constantly says things like "I didn't say that", "I didn't do that" and "I don't remember...". I don't understand if she believes this stuff or if she is cognitively using these defenses. We can be having a very significant conversation where significant things are being decided and then a little down the road she is like 180° to what was said or "that's not what I ment" type of stuff.
How many years have you studied physiology, organ function, trauma, nutrition, biochemistry, psychology, stress, psychiatric diagnoses ? The examples of your mother's utteraances are no proof or even signs of NPD, it is dangerous and harmful the way laymen nowadays narcissistically allow themselves to be judges of other people's states and think themselves fit to judge by some tiny little reading etc. Please stop or do a proper, responsible job of it! There are other possible causes for her behaviour, for God's sake.And if you can truly ave significant talks with her, it doesn't sound in line of NPD. They can do that with starngers, playing roles, but not with close ones.
My ex-partner probably had narcissistic personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder. We were in couples therapy (only once or twice) and I knew I'd need to talk to the therapist alone because otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to say the truth. But at the same time, I also knew that I couldn't ask for one-on-one meetings because he would've exploded on me later. Thank God we broke up soon after.
A really useful distinction that resonated with me: There is a huge difference between being at fault and being responsible for a situation. In this case, you are NOT at fault for what the narcissist did to you. That is absolutely on them. However, you ARE responsible for getting your life sorted out and healing from it. They won't/can't help, so that part's on you. This concept has broad applications. Another example: I got bullied a lot as a kid. That was NOT my fault. But I am responsible for getting my head back on straight and healing from those experiences.
Yes! This gave me chills it is so true! And thank you for sharing as I think it can be helpful for others. So sorry you had to live through the billing… wishing you healing and happiness
You are absolutely right about the Narcissist w/ NPD. I went to therapy with my wife (w/NPD; not diagnosed) it was a total waste of time and a mind altering experience. I would always leave therapy with her….”Worse off, and always asking ‘What just happened.” She would play the therapist like a fiddle, and I would always be confounded. She had therapist coming to the house for women time. Therapy does not work on Narcissist w/NPD; to them its their favorite playground to toy with everyone. ******* Note: I figured out my ex-wife was a Histrionic Narcissist w/NPD after our divorce and I found myself in Crisis Shelter for months trying to recover from the emotional and psychological abuse for months. I have been diagnosed with MDD, CPTSD, Sever Anxiety and Anhedonia. I am also still struggling with the aftereffects of the Narcissistic Trauma-bond……Sucks!!!!!
My mom went to a few therapy Meetings with me, Throughout my life. Any time the focus came to her She was not honest. And she pushed her perception as more valid than my own experience. Ever since I was a kid to tell me my dad was brain washing me. As an adult I think it was her that was brainwashing me. How else would it be that she's never been physically abusive to me I have no memories of her yelling at me. But she's the one I'm naturally afraid of. My dad was physically abusive and emotionally. But I still got the sense that he cared about me. He put in the effort to want to be with me. I could be myself around my dad. And I knew where I stood with my dad. I didn't with my mom. She would lie to me, As a joke. She would gasolite my experiences and memories. And she would invalidate my trauma. I have no memories of receiving any nurturing from my mom. When my dad would hug me it was a real hug with love. And my mom ruined that for me, Made it so that any form of physical affection from anybody became repulsive and wrong to me. Because she put me in therapy and her in the Past. The therapist listened to my mom, And they both disregarded me, And with no actual proof Of witnessing anything. So when someone doesn't sexually abuse you those little normal signs of love and affection like hugging your child, Become wrong. Any kind of physical touch becomes wrong. I very rarely felt loved by my mom. And I think she was jealous that I like my dad more than her. Even though due to my dad's neglect I've almost died more than once. For example, My dad learned that 1 of his friends was stalking me or did anything to me, He'd get p***** off and probably go to beat up or go to jail for something. He would get angry over it. After he died, One of his creepy friends actually did try something with me. He became obsessed with me and stalked me. My mom completely invalidated it. Said I wasn't being stalked that I just didn't realize he was pursuing me. That he and other dad's friends used to hit on her back when she was with my dad and they were partying together. WTF. And when itWhat's happening to me, She didn't get angry, or show signs of wanting to protect me. She didn't even show concern for my well-being. But my dad was the one who brain washed me yeah. No mom it was you. At least will my dad broke me down He did it to build me back up. You just broke me down and continue to do so, And made it my fault. Dad was Willing To hear me, See me, Acknowledge how he affected my life even if he didn't remember. He believed me. He apologized and he really looked like he regretted it. And he spent the rest of his life trying to make it up to me. F*** y** you b**** for telling me he doesn't care about me. Dad died, I'm a 35 year old woman what the h*** was the point of that. Yeah this is still fresh.
Yes, taking responsibility for the HEALING from narcissistic abuse (once you are an adult) is not taking responsibility for the abuse! This comment of mine has definitely been misinterpreted by some - so thank you for letting me know it was helpful for you! Wishing you health and healing.
I've felt like I have NPD for a few years due to how I am in relationship with my partners and ruining some relationships with great people. The part of the video at 14:28 was so helpful for my understanding. I went through an extreme pharmaceutical injury 10 years ago and went completely within myself (possibly dissociated). I shut down completely and haven't been the same since. This helps to understand why I basically beg my therapist to acknowledge me as a narcissist while he wont accept it. I don't hurt people for fun, it's crushes me that I have hurt others. So this helps me understand that this is a trauma response and maybe I have hope. I struggle to show care or empathy in relationship. I truly want to, but it's like its blocked.
The narcissist creates a narrative about himself that soothes his feelings of inadequacy. Then he feeds this narrative to everyone in his life with the objective that they will either give him validation, agree with the narrative, or at least not object to the narrative. If someone objects to his narrative, the conversation becomes a court of law and the objector must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the narrative is false. The right thing of course would have been for the narcissist to be humble, self reflect, wrestle with the feedback, and try to change if it would make him a better person. Telling phrases that the narcissist has donned his lawyer cap are "what do you mean by that?" or "when have I ever done that?"
NPD in couples therapy is definitely what I am interested in as one who is concerned that this is the dynamic that I am dealing with in my relationship.
If you decide to take the risk of going to couples' therapy with someone who has very strong artistic tendencies, then please hear this... it is super super super important that you only agree to go to a therapist who is deeply trained in cluster B personality types, including narcissistic personality disorder... ...Otherwise everything that you've seen the video, in these comments, etc is likely to happen. Without an expert helping see thru their mask, then they are very...vapable of AND LIKELY TO manipulate the therapist.... If that happens then it could turn into something that makes the abuse much worse for you... then you end up having not just them, but them and the deceived therapist telling YOU that YOU should be doing a better job of regulating this entire other Adult human toddler... instead of THEM regulating their own self with basic integrity & self-control just like all adults need to do.
My mother is a covert narcissist. We are estranged as a result. Whenever she reaches out, it is all about "starting fresh" which sounds good on the surface but is horrible in reality because she NEVER takes responsibility for her lies and manipulations th as t she does to everyone she knows but particularly her children. When I requests us to talk to a therapist, she simply ignores me and ghosts me.
My wife, who I suspect has NPD, went to therapy for a couple sessions. Came back and literally told me she got her validation and the counselor agrees with her and I'm wrong. I mean, I don't believe her and maybe I should have expected it. But it still made me shake my head.
As a psychologist with a private practice who also taught psychology at a major university I always told my students that when entering therapy, if the therapist did not tell them their credentials upfront, then they should ask about their credentials and their experience with your specific type of problems (Ex: eating disorders ).
My experience has been credentials don't mean everything. Had horrible, horrible experience with PhD/MD level practicioners. One, a crisis counselor, head of the team, screamed at my second grader because my sweetie said he didn't know why he was crying. Pounded the table. "You do too know!" I took my guy and said, "We're leaving. " He huffed and said, "You would." Then had social work therapists that I loved. I said somewhere else, I do wish there was a way that if someone claims to specialize in Narcissism, that there is fairly uniform, comprehensive, training.
A more accurate way to describe a narcissist rather than saying that a person is a tool. They consider their spouses more to be a slave in my opinion. At least that's the way I fault when I was married to a narcissist.
If someone is over 40 years-old, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time trying to help the person change. I don't have the time to do that anymore. The brain is full developed by 25 years-old. By 40 years-old I would say it's nearly impossible for most people to change their behavior.
Psychologist/Somatic Psychotherapist with 22 years experience here. Agree with everything you have articulated. Oh, and boundaries - a go to quality that I also focus upon 🙏
Nailed it! On 5th session he suddenly raged at the therapist and said “You’re against me and biased towards her! “ Walked out, then wrote a letter complaining about the therapist!!! Spooky how my experience was EXACTLY as you described in the video!
I'd like to see a video on NPD when it's a part of BPD. Maybe include a warning that abuse has to be documented because, as I was told by the abuse center in town, men can't be abused because it can't be proven in court.
Thank you so much for your videos- they really helped me. Especially hearing about a covert narcissist helped me letting go of the pain, anger and guilt. I am much stronger on putting up my boundaries but I am still healing (which takes much longer than I thought it would). Just talking about it all here is rather difficult as I still question if I do my soon to be ex husband (of 20 years) injustice
My sons partner insisted on couples therapy. Didn’t go the way she wanted..phoned the counsellor and had a go at her and then punched a photo of her and my son so hard she needed surgery in her hand!
Yes please do a video talking about going to couples therapy when you're partner has many narcissistic traits ( they have not been diagnosed as far as I know).
Thank you for this. My partner and I both have CPTSD and narcissistic parents. We both have learned behaviors and trauma that keeps things really challenging.
I’m cratered right now by a narc sibling. Through the years I have gone along, praised, listened to those who dare to seem strong & might self advocate & then the grudge begins. unfortunately I made myself codependent financially so I’m feeling pretty low. After being gaslit to death for years today things were revealed in an interesting way. On one hand I feel better to know I’m not crazy. But, I have to step away no matter the consequences & that’s sad to me. However, I’m free! I’ll grow in that feeling alone!
You are right on about everything specifically to my situation and more. I have been following and studying about this topic through many other videos done by Doctors and psychiatrist. They are extremely helpful also but you are just right on. I think you focus on therapy point of view and that is unique about your videos. It is like you are reassuring and restating the thigs that I always vaguely wondered but was not so certain because I am that type of person who is extra careful blaming on others and making sure it is not my own fault at an extreme degree. Anyways my question is how can I find a therapist like you who is very knowledgeable for the very specific population. I am in currently in therapy and I have previously in therapy but always felt the luck of understanding of those therapist regarding ASPD and narcissist. If you could guide me in finding a therapist who specialize or have a adequate knowledge about narcissism and ASPD it would be so helpful. Thank you and I will be continueing to watch your video. People like you change life of so many out there who suffer. Thank you very much. I really appreciate you.
My one had a glaring lack of empathy and could not tolerate even a misconstrued hint of criticism upon which she would instantly rage and implement silent treatment for months !
I came across the term "narcissistic parent" Earlier this year and have been doing a bit of research. I'm wondering if my parents might be narcissistic. Among other things, they seemed very resistant to family therapy...They would sit in on one, maybe two sessions, then it would be back to one-on-one sessions with me and the therapist.
I don't know if my ex is a covert narcissist or not, but she does have many, though not all, of the traits. When we were together, she convinced me to go to couples therapy with her therapist whom she had been seeing for quite a while. Big mistake for me to agree to that. Looking back, I think it was terribly unethical for the therapist to suggest it. My ex had totally convinced the therapist that all of our problems were my fault, my doing and my responsibility. After a few sessions, I finally realized what a mistake that was to go to HER therapist and expect unbiased help. In any event, my ex started the divorce in the most cruel and vicious way. I have come to realize that she did me a great favor by divorcing me, though I am still dealing with some of her flying monkeys, which continues to traumatize me. Working on it.
8:51pm EST My husband and I are doing a couple retreat for 4 days. I’m really anxious and actually scared going into this. He agreed to go and likes the idea of vacation with a purpose, like I put it. However, a few days ago, I told him how important it was to not allow pride and ego into these therapy sessions. Maybe a mistake but I wanted to let him know that I hoped we could both come into this not afraid to place all our cards on the table. To allow ourselves to be vulnerable. That I loved him and wanted both of us to help each other become the best versions of ourselves. He started to reverse blame and get defensive. It is utterly exhausting emotionally and psychologically to be in a relationship with someone who has narcissistic tendencies. Here I am again. My first husband had narcissistic tendencies. I have low self esteem and confidence. I am an empath. I tend to look within almost too much. I sacrifice myself, my feelings, my wants to keep the peace. I want to feel empowered. I want to create boundaries, etc. I just don’t know where to begin. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge and experience!!!
Thank you so very much for all your talks. I allowed a covert narcissist move in after she super showered me with love but after a year it was clear her issues were NPD and once she realized I knew she had NPD and I stood my ground she left and I feel I was super lucky. But I have to figure out why I didn’t see it before and now I miss the non NPD version of her. Now I am super cautious. Many thanks again.
My experience with my NPD spouse was that she accused me of “manipulating” the therapist into believing only my story and turned the therapist against the spouse. 😂😅 OMG! She was there in therapy with me for 3-4 sessions but I manipulated the therapist right there in front of her, not to mention a therapist has an ethical duty to remain neutral. I had one alone session after that with the therapist, and stopped. 😢 Only recently did I awaken to her suffering from NPD. 😮 I was so naive and tried so hard to meet her manipulative needs.
Went to counselling with my ex narcissist, she told him he was too controlling, he told her she didn't know what she was talking about and walked out. That was the end of the counselling!
Spectrum means, covert and vulnerable narcissism. It's narcissism nonetheless even though it's not malignant or overt. Also, NPD is usually comorbid with BPD, Bipolar, Avoidant and Dismissive Disorders to name the most common.
I was asked to look after my grandchild regularly when employment began again for the mother. But although it seemed great, and on the face of it, a lovely opportunity for me to spend time as a grandparent, rules came in right from the get-go, and then criticism, unending, behind my back. My own child, the father, was sometimes around, and that was lovely, but criticism of me continued to come from the wife, at work. I decided to stop, and she could not cope with that, and has not spoken to me again since. So 6 years ago now. My contact with my grandchildren has also been prevented. Because of her. It is very hard, but I can clearly see that she has NPD.
I went to therapy once with my ex wife because she acted very bizarre every once in a while..she accepted. But we were in for a couple of minutes. The therapist asked one question and she ran away.. literally. I was flabbergasted but the therapist just looked at me and was flabbergasted too. This female therapist had no explanation and never mentioned narcissism. My ex's reaction was " normal " for me. But the therapist had no clue unfortunately. Had I known things my relation and that of my children might have gone quite different. I never thought about narcistic behaviour because the therapist didn' t recognise it. Things might have gone quite different and my children and me might have suffered less..my relation went on for quite a while. Poor children...I just didn't know, she has one son still living with her who idolises her..one is living with me but has no self esteem allthough I try to learn him. How can I explain that to my sons without driving them away? My wife and I are divorced for a while now, she "escaped" with the contractor who build our newly bought house...one son stayed..if he hadn't I would have lost everything..for years I sought possible faults of my own doing but now I find explanations. So thank you very much _/\_ it really helps to find out that things which aspecially influenced my youngest son in a bad way are more clear ro me now _/\_
I’m a parent of a young adult narc. And I’m an empathetic person in general. My life is hell right now. There’s not much info for parents on how to deal with this. It’s sooo hard. I’m manipulated, used & abused daily and am on the verge of ruining my relationship, with my other child who loves me, cares, is supportive and wants the narc sibling out of our lives. The logical part of me understands that the narc needs to go and that I need to support my suffering good child but the paternal part of me can’t let go of narc child because I do see their pain (or am I just so deeply manipulated?) I’m a parent to both & im heart broken 💔
I have literally wondered, at times, if maybe I black out and act like a jack and I don’t remember. I know that isn’t true, but it has crossed my mind.
They turn the therapist against you. One gal I knew was unhappy in her marriage and the therapist questioned her on her behaviour and he quit bad mouthed the therapist
I have a toxic family member with consistent narcissistic traits and personality patterns for decades (still has these patterns), and the weird thing is this person just got a Ph.D. in Social Work. Doesn't surprise me because this person always felt the need to "one up" everyone.
As a client this is an idea I had for approaching therapy with a narcissist. starting with a combination of effortless mindfulness, internal family systems and polyvagal nerve Theory could shift the focus. Emotionally focused therapy might then be more possible. And then guidelines on respectful communication, empathic listening, expressing appreciation and conflict resolution skills would be easier to do. The behavioural change coming after the attitudinal change.
My narcissistic sister-in-law started therapy to better cope with a chronic illness and talk about her childhood. I don't know what's going on in these sessions, but she's gone completely berserk now. The therapist obviously encourages her sick behavior.
My mom is cold shouldering me because I won’t go to therapy with her. She’s has shown up in our relationship in a way that lines up with those traits, the lying and blame shifting in particular. She’s not safe. I’ll take the cold shoulder.
My cousin has bipolar, and doesn’t take the medication, but has been addicted to prescription medication from an early age, and drinks and takes copious amounts of ketamine/ cocaine, drinks vodka which doesn’t agree with her , and gets nasty, she says she has 1 kidney+ heart condition which effects 1 in 8 million people 🙄 we met up a few years ago I moved to the area after my parents died. I was the best thing ever to start with, and then out of nowhere I was shunned by her and the village so I moved away. About 3 years ago she messaged me and apologised profusely and we seemed to be close again. However behind the scenes she was mischief making, defamed my character. Short version is, I’ve been scapegoat for her drug addiction and projected on me to cover her tracks and I once again I am the villain. There’s a lot more to situation. I found 2 days ago what had been happening. Could you please advise me. I’m devastated and I feeling terrible, but I haven’t done anything to deserve this , please help me
There is a established friend group( 5 years ) that she introduced me to and then went on to tell me that I wasn’t liked . But they all take the same thing and I didn’t fit in. So I stopped going to the gatherings. She always states that she is empathic and everyone confides in her which I thought was great, but then over time It was clear she was telling everyone everything about different people in the group very personal and private details. Which I didn’t think was empathic at all. But at home when it was just family a lot of nasty things were being said. There has been in group arguments, but other people were getting blamed. And it seems that it is my turn. I have been blamed for having a fictional drug habit ( I haven’t) but it is cover up her tracks for substantial amount of money out of her joint account with her husband. There is so much more to say but I am sure you get the jist of the problem
I disagree with the fact that they CANT take responsibility for there actions ~ I just think they don't because it reminds them of there psychotic childhood traumas ~ it's like catching a narcissists with a flame thrower in there hands and theirs a burning house in front of them ~ You say " Hey !!! You burnt the house " and the narcissists inside there head is saying " I know i did ~ but if i admit to it, the pain i will feel at how awful i am will kill me so i will stand here and say nothing "
I'm not aware that our mother was ever officially diagnosed, but there were obvious problems. Following her suicide attempt when I was 8 years old, Mom and Dad were temporarily much more involved in our lives. They must've been under scrutiny, but the only advice we kids had was we were to blame for her rage and other abuses Meanwhile, Mom's earlier life was kept secret from us, and I'm sure the scrutinizers were never told what they really needed to know, otherwise I'm sure she would have lost custody. I cannot imagine treating my children the way she treated us. I was the only child who would confront Mom so, when I was 14, she marched me and Dad into therapy to talk to a counselor about my problems. It took a few weeks for the counselor to suggest she was the problem. As you said, she dismissed the counselor as "unqualified", and the sessions ended. She remained a most difficult person, a cunning chameleon, to her dying breaths.
Hi I'm a woman who grew up with a mother who had NPD and would love if you would give your thoughts about couples therapy where one or both parties are dealing with relationship problems stemming from that parental narcissistic trauma rather than when a partner has NPD. Thank you love your videos!
My narcissist mother told me the psychiatrist told her he doesn’t understand why her family abandoned her when she did nothing wrong. I offered to forward her texts and emails to the doctor to help. Dead air. I had to go no contact.
What I said to the worst one I ever met was that she was some form of Narcissistic Sociopath and the only difference between her and the others was that they function at varying degrees of aggressiveness, and that she was either a Narcissistic Sociopath with Psychotic tendencies or she was an outright Psychopath who by her own childhood grooming and self-grooming over the years, by the many-layered game she plays, appears to be a Sociopath but isn't. Less stigma to be a Narcissistic Sociopath than a Psychopath because who hasn't run into a Narcissistic Sociopath? That was 2016, and in 2018, I found out about the Cluster B diagnosis and psychotic tendencies. She tries to take over your life arenas and destroy you in the eyes of people who know you-including those who don't so she can pretend your neighbors, co-workers, etc., wants her to be in their life instead. She doesn't want them, just wants to pretend that everyone wants her instead because she was abandoned and molested as a child. She's evening the score to the extreme for what I had in childhood-a family that loved and wanted me-and goes after our kids-including sexually-to make us pay. She looks for males in position of authority that are likeminded with no problem breaking the law either, offers sexual favors to then use their big boy job titles to cover it all up so they can have sex with her again. She makes sure they understand her currency. She hates every mother ever born as we are surrogates for her prostitute mother who abandoned her. The story is too long and too vile, but I unmasked a legitimate monster and she knew it after our final conversation. She went after my daughter again despite my warnings just to show me she could. I told. Nothing happened just like she tried subtly telling me nothing would happen. By the time I figured out what she was, she was so prolific as a prostitute herself, I was already extremely triangulated using them to keep tabs on me and help her set me up as the bad guy to her pretend victim roles. She needs constant attention to the point it's beyond a sickness. She preened at me many times with her secrets of what she was doing that I had no clue about yet. I told her it would take a profiler for her full diagnosis and to catch her.
I am almost 100% sure my mum is a narc, but she's been in therapy for 10+ years, with the same therapist who just seems to be like, a talk therapist. IMO, this therapist is well-meaning, but entertains her/doesn't really challenge her, and is more like someoene to rant at for her once a week. A captive audience, basically. I vacillate between resenting this therapist for enabling my mother's narcissistic/selfish tendencies, and feeling sorry for her because she has to put up with the madness every week, especially knowing all the shit-talking my mum does @ her behind her back, yet she won't find another one. She claims she "can't afford to," but she can afford to get expensive cosmetics in her utterly futile fight against aging, and even procedures like Botox for non-medical reasons (I get botox but for migraines, I'm too young to need it otherwise and even if I weren't, I'd prefer to look ancient and not have migraines tbh. They've completely ruined my life, and I would trade a fleeting youth for lasting health any day, tbh.) I don't know if her therapist has figured out she has narcissistic tendencies or not. She's one of those super feminist types that seems to believe women can do no wrong, so she already has a certain degree of bias. I don't really remember how she ended up going, if I'm being honest, I think part of it was because of her divorce/custody battle with my ex-stepdad. Is it possible that a narc would hold on to a therapist for that long of a time as basically a guaranteed source of supply? Because I've heard more typically what you say, that they don't like therapy. She does not like suggestions her therapist would say that she should apologise or deescalate conflicts, she thinks it's the therapist telling her basically that she's telling her not to advocate for herself. I don't know if she's telling the truth about the suggestions the therapist made, since obviously I'm not in their sessions customarily (though I have witnessed some of them because of COVID, she would talk to her on the phone and now strictly prefers to talk to her on the phone than go in person, so that's where my comment about her ranting is from, to clarify), but I do know from my childhood that she does NOT like apologising even when she does wrong, she likes pretending it didn't happen and just going off after a period of silence as if that had never occurred. I do also know she's had difficult co-workers, so I'm not really sure whether the suggestion to apologise was good or not in every situation, I know my mum is a very difficult person who is constantly at the centre of conflict though, but it can be pretty confusing ngl. Sometimes, I just shut down having to think about it because it's like the more I try to figure things out, the more confusing it becomes, especially when things don't match as stereotypically, like for instance, my mum being in therapy for 10+ years, but with a therapist that rarely, if ever, challenges her and seems almost more like filling in the role a friend would have, because my mum doesn't have any friends to talk to and interpersonal relationships tend to fall apart pretty quickly with her/none of us adult children talk to her atm (I admittedly tend to go on/off, like I said, she leaves me feeling very confused sometimes and part of me doesn't want to believe she could be this, although the evidence seems to be pretty obvious at least behaviourally that there is something wrong, and I admittedly suck at enforcing my own boundaries/sticking to saying no and cutting her off for good, my siblings are a lot better at that than me), so I'd say we can't all be crazy.
My brother in law went to therapy with my narcissistic sister years ago ~ He talked about how the therapist had him express his view and then stopped him midway and asked my sister ~ What did you hear him say about you? He later told me *" She got it wrong every time"* I told him " Your actually living with someone who's detached from reality. She refused to go to anymore sessions ~ like he didn't see that coming~ right
I did not go into therapy with anyone who has NPD but I was smear campaigned by people who were trying to simulate an intervention for NPD even though I’m actually a survivor of multiple pathological people- not a person with the disorder. Questioned about every detail of my life and interrogated on many things that were invented. I’m traumatized.
When I was severing the ties with my ex wife and she finally went to a few therapy sessions at the very end of our relationship, she said; "I know with enough time I can convince/beat the thearpist." You can't help these people, and keeping close to them you will only lose yourself.
My brother in law has all the traits of a covert victim narcissist and when he was out of a job for a while he got very “depressed” and went to see a therapist. He had obviously heard from people in his life that he was a narcissist as his takeaway from those sessions with a psychiatrist was an antidepressant and the announcement that “I’m not a narcissist he said so.” (announced to my husband out of the blue at a very infrequent catch up). He is one of the nastiest, most manipulative people I know and his lack of self esteem magnifies that. Yet out he comes with validation and yet another excuse to treat everyone around him atrociously (I’m so depressed etc).Most of the family have given up on him altogether, we haven’t see him for 3 years. But to get to the point, therapy gave him a ticket to ride.
This sounds like a classic narc bald-faced lie. Any therapist worth their license would be highly unlikely to tell someone they're NOT a narcissist, because lying and manipulation are key features of the disorder. I've heard of other narcs using this line though. Glad for you that you haven't had to see him for 3 years.
@@bellaluce7088 good point. Sometimes it is just so hard to think like them. Thank goodness I guess. We won’t be seeing him again he’s just been too cruel to so many vulnerable people in their family. Their father is the same. And both such victims, last time my husband saw his father and called him out on a few things he denied all of it “I don’t remember” or “it’s your imagination” blah blah textbook stuff and then got upset because “no one will be at my funeral.” All about him to the bitter end haha.
@@futz1656 Ugh. So classic for your husband's father to turn natural consequences of his own misbehavior into a pity party. Eye roll. Glad your husband spoke up though. That's healing even if the other person never takes responsibility. ❤
My ex would flirt with his therapist and they were having an affair with each other. So that’s another way to get around it and manipulate the therapist.
My husband believes I have an NPD - he is talking about it every single day. He is not a psychologist. And his guessing comes out from the youtube videos. I've agreed to go to the family therapy to get this diagnosis from a real specialist. Unfortunately, such information can be very helpful for the potential victims of NPD persons, but can be used quite opposite by the guys who are the real NPD persons.
I would love to see anything about couple's therapy; now, I've pretty much decided I'm leaving, period. However... nah, as soon as I can find a place for my Mother and I, we have to go. Even if God, Himself, is able to burn out of her the Narcissism, I just need to move on.
Hi Barbara, i have a question. Can a narcissist be depressed? Have you ever seen a narcissist being diagnosed with major depressive disorder? Can these two things go together?
@BarbaraHeffernan but I haven't seen people who manipulate being depressed. They are usually successful in manipulating others and so are usually happy.
My husband went to therapy in order for me to marry him. He was supposed to go to therapy because he was controlling and wouldn’t take responsibility for his abusive behavior. He came home from therapy and said he would love our pets…. What…..
Would love to know narcissist with emotion couples therapy. Our therapist eventually let him go and suggested he see someone else as he wasn’t willing to do the deep work. We got there because of his secret life. He was diagnosed with a very very strong DA/ FA. I’m wondering now if he’s covert narc.
I'm definitely interested in hearing about couples counseling with a narcissist. As both a therapist and the soon to be ex spouse of someone with narcissistic traits, my instinct is "don't." The narcissist won't change and you might end up giving them ammunition. Can you keep the spouse safe in a session with a narcissist?
Could you tell me: Can a therapist duped by a NPD and married, be of true healing help to sick patients? I mean to heal, not just get some intermittent relief or get a little better?
@Medietos Before I respond, I want to make it clear that I can't offer you any kind of professional help since we don't have a client/therapist relationship. These are personal observations of myself and others. It's not entirely clear what you're asking for. Are you currently in a relationship? Or are you out/preparing to leave? Are you talking about therapy with the narcissist or individual therapy? If you're looking for help to heal, I would recommend individual therapy with a therapist who does not know or work with the narcissist. If you're doing therapy with a narcissist and the therapist seems to have been duped, work with your own therapist to decide what you want to do. You can't change the therapist or the narcissist, so you need to decide what you need/want to do to keep yourself as safe as possible. What do you consider to be "true healing"? That's a pretty broad phrase, and it's something you need to discuss with your therapist. It's hard to accomplish something if you don't know what it is. What a client can achieve with a therapist is hard to predict. Healing is a journey, and it can be a very uneven, uncertain one. It's not an easy one, either. It's different for everybody. People who make progress seem to have several things in common. They get back up on the horse when they fall off. Maybe not right away, but sooner or later, they get up. They learn to mourn the what if's and the might-have-beens and then let them go. They're forward-facing, meaning that their healing is as much about finding out who they are, what they value, who they would like to be, and where to go from here now that they're out from under the narcissist's thumb as it is about processing pain. They want to be whole, and while that might sound obvious, it's not. They learn how to accept help, and they learn how to reach out for it. They learn to set boundaries with toxic people. They learn good self-care. Mostly, they have a lot of courage, they work hard, and they give themselves a lot of grace. To sum it all up, I don't know if a therapist can help you find true healing. But therapy is a good option, and the only way to find out is to try.
@@Medietos "Duped" is a loaded way of putting it, but I can report that just watching *videos* (nevermind one-on-one therapy) by therapists who've experienced narcissistic abuse has turbocharged my healing like nothing else. People who really get it can illuminate what "it" is (half the battle), explain why it wasn't your fault in a *convincing* way because they've been there, and give you narc-specific tips for healing others might not think of (e.g. making a list of every awful thing they did to un-gaslight yourself and resist hoovering...). I was a hot mess most of my life, but can now center and soothe myself, recover from upsets more quickly, state my needs and feelings, enforce healthy boundaries, and not be overly concerned if people are upset with me for silly reasons or simply don't like me. Huzzah! I'm also no longer grieving the fact that my mother didn't love me, or secretly hoping that someday she will (she was incapable--no need to take it personally). Now I love and validate mySELF, as well as healthy people who know how to be reciprocal, honest, kind, and loving. That feels significantly healed to me. So does the fact that I can continue learning and healing as a form of self-care without feeling desperate or getting massively triggered. - Some of the therapists who are NPD abuse survivors who helped me get here: Ingrid Clayton, Patrick Teahan, Jay Reid, Dr. Ramani. - Ingrid's videos in particular are a master class on modeling what self-acceptance looks like. - Pete Walker is another healed/healing therapist. His book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving is a classic. - Same with John Bradshaw and his book Homecoming on doing inner child work. - Patrick Teahan has some great videos role playing inner child work with his mentor Amanda Curtin.
How probable would it be for a narcissist to successfully convince their therapist of the alternate reality they exist in or to weaponize their therapist against their partner? I suspect this is happening with someone I know but if I am right it would be a fairly egregious error on the part of the therapist and extremely effective manipulation from this person to have fully convinced both a professional and their partner that their flipped narrative is reality. Am I paranoid or is that actually possible?
Narcissists are made when daddy spoils the dumb child and scorns the intelligent one. You either deal with it, fight back, of F off. Choice is yours. I'm a combative type, so I stay back and fight even to the point of insanity. I'm a scorned child and still are well in my 40's but started to fight back on a kamikazi basis. I am all the following: Wrong nationality, wrong height, wrong language, wrong everything. Yeah, if you worship one child and scorn the other; the latter will be your end. #Yosef #Yaakov #Esa #Isaac
When I went to couples counselling with a narc, the counsellor was actually very good and saw through it. The counsellor (who was male) took me aside and told me there was no point in counselling to improve the relationship and it was a matter of either accepting the narc would never change or leaving the relationship altogether. He said if I chose to leave, he would choose me over the narc in regard to further therapy, as it was a conflict of interest to continue to see both of us.
So refreshing to have someone tell you like it was. I left soon after and never once regretted it.
Glad for you. could you heal? And how did the NPD fare afterwards? Could you advise me on my family , please? I took them all (we were 5, Father dead now) to family counsellor for 5 sessions, of which I was the only one to turn up each time. She said to me that I was the only one really wanting change and that she couldn't talk to them.
I still haven't got therapy to heal, am severely burnt out from searching , egtting mistreated instead(CPTSD, HSP, Co-Dependnecy (adult child of dysfunctional family) w Aspergers and bad Autoimmune D.)
I haven't been able to assert myself among tehm, have recently stopped my crazy helping-caring but don't know what tpo do. am too sick and tired to help myself with the mistreatment from helathcvare going on. And I can't leave my family and we do belong togehter beyond our disturbances and wounds. I don't have any strong friends or social network to count on for assistence/real support. I have never got a big enough therapist, need extra spiritual maturity and competence.Do you have mirroring or advice, please? That would be good of you and I very grateful and glad.all the best to you!
@@Medietos I would focus on counseling just for yourself as that’s a lot to deal with - don’t try and fix people who are not open to change. My heart really goes out to adult children of NPD, it is far worse to experience it as a child.
I had the very same experience!
Wow thank God for that counselor
Wow your therapist is great. My therapist asked me if I want to do couple's instead of individual. After three sessions, it was too painful and he won't let me talk so I quit. And I quit the whole therapy. After two years I am restarting the therapy and I am feeling my therapist does not have much understanding about the narcissism and ASPD. How did you find a therapist who is knowledgiable. My partner and charm through anyone.
I went out with a narcissist who got herself in trouble at work and went to counselling has a condition of keeping her job. She bragged to me that she went through the motions and told the counciller exactly what she wanted to hear. Says it all. To the narcissist, it's a game.
Yes, exactly! Thank you for sharing.
Which empathy ? They don't have any . They only "mimic" empathy.
Yes, my daughter manipulated the therapist. I quit but glad she’s still going because it was a victory for her. Hoping the therapist will see enough to realize.
@@BarbaraHeffernan (Oh, sorry for capitals below..very tired..)When you answer "exactly", it sounds as though you agree with the the easily done generaklizTION OF npdS, WHICH IS DANGEROUS. eVERY HUMAN IS UNIQUE AND WE DO HIM WRONG BY LIMITING HIS POTENTIAL. eVERYBODY CAN GET BETTER, IF THEY GET THE RIGHT TREATMENT (PROFESSIONALLY AS WELL AS SOCIALLY) AND IF THEY want TO. wHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT rUSSELL bRAND'S HEALING FROM npd? beING QUIL´TE AWFUL AND HARMING PPL ? sEE HIM NOW, WHAT loving helpfulness HE gives.
Do you find it right to point out sick ppl as the only faulty onwes, but never the therapists, - and what about yourself? This trend is harmful and hurtful, stop it! Do and teach shadowwork instead, and the NPDs won't get hold of us/others anymore, and some f´good cabn be done instead of wallowing in the evil of NPDs..
A lot of therapist are toxic. I've met a few who could care less about me. One of them fell asleep during a therapy session with me. I had another one telling me to not use contractions when speaking. Another one tried to undermine me. I had to change therapist a lot because I moved to different cities.
Does anyone else get the impression that the profession of politics was invented and designed specifically for narcissists?
But public service, on the other hand, belongs to empaths
Totally!!
No. There is a need for that type of work to be done. However Narcissists are looking for the opportunity to fill their insatiable need to dominate underlings and be made to feel good about living off others adulation.
They see it as their natural domain. Big business is another realm for them.
@@44manmThere’s a kind of narcissist who actually serves a community to feel a sense of superiority out of this service.
@@Sunrise.111 my brother
My ex female covert narcissist has gone to therapy for years which really threw me off until I realized the therapist was just another form of supply weekly.
oh yikes. Maybe this is what i'm getting out of it and not realizing it
Counseling is not working when nothing is changing after decades, and they are more and more unhappy and act out. The only thing they get is their sedatives and more narc supply. And the counselor becomes their only "friend" because no one else wants to be around them. Seen it. Finally went no contact. Lovely peace!
My toxic sister goes to a counsellor. She hasn't changed one bit. The counsellor sympathises with her and tells my sister exactly what she wants to hear. I'm sure the counsellor never challenges her. She's been hostile towards me all my life.
Some therapists are all about 💵
I wouldn't want a sibling like you around. What a lack of compassion. 'Lost case'?
I wish you to live a life apart from each other 💚
My cover narc ex-friend LOVES going to therapy. It's guaranteed supply, and she's admitted to me that she lies in therapy and/or omits the truth. As Barbara mentioned in this video, when narcs lie convincingly even therapists can't tell because they're not telepathic.
Sometimes a therapist will validate their feelings of being the victim as to create a safe place for them to share so they can help them. The narcissist will seize on that validation sometimes and stop all attempts to make a change.
They lie to the therapist
They can be pretty emotionally draining. Very few narcissists will even go to the therapy office. Do they make lasting, sustainable change? 95+% of the time no. Some narcs even became more aware during therapy, and ended up being more effective manipulators. Personality disorders on the dark triad typically have a low prognosis of change. Don't get your hopes up if your partner is a true narc.
When the therapist made a suggestion for change to the ex narcissist, he stood up, shot the therapist the bird, screamed at her, and huffed out. 😂
Yup! Been there :)
I have a feeling there is more than one of us who wishes the therapeutic profession at large was BETTER EDUCATED about narcissists and their infliction of narcissistic abuse on the people AROUND them@@BarbaraHeffernan
I could see my ex husband doing that. That’s exactly what I got when I suggested therapy
I'm married to someone who gave me a lot of heartache in our years together. My father has NPD (diagnosed) and his mother is too. My partner was incredibly egocentric and hurted me a lot, specially in our first couple of years together. When I decided I was done with everything, he went to therapy (2 years and counting) and a little after we started couples therapy (1 year ago). He changed so much that sometimes is hard do think about how he behaved before. Still, he thinks he's narcissistic, despite all the changes and his self awareness, and our couple's therapist thinks he has traits. When he's stressed out, he's still goes back to being really defensive and egocentric, but nothing like he used to be. He tries to be mindful every waking hour so he doesn't hurt me, but sometimes he still do (changing important agreements we made without talking to me, or doing things behind my back that he knows will hurt me - but nothing major, not like in the beginning), but I know he's been working really hard in the last year. Can he be narcissistic? If not, in those are just traits, do you think it's possible that he becomes a somewhat healthy person eventually? Or he will always hurt me in the same ways, from time to time? It's really confusing for me this "narcissists don't change" thing, because it is a spectrum, right? If so, those who don't fully qualify for the disorder, but have some traits, those people can be more "normal"? I'm sorry for the long question, but I never saw anyone talking about this, the correlation between the severity and the possibility to change. Thank you so much for your videos. I'll be waiting for the one about couples therapy
Oh sweetie. It's possible. Narcissistic traits are on a sliding scale. [good book on this is Rethinking Narcissism, by Craig Malkin, and he's here on UA-cam] Elinor Greenberg has written a book and she's on Quora. She has a lot of narcissistic clients. Raw Motivations, here on UA-cam, claims to be a self-aware, reformed narcissist. It's possible, but it's just rare. I went to sooo many therapists with my ex over the years, but after 34 years, in the end, when he had supply cut off at work, he went straight back to lying, cheating, and treating me horribly. It was like NONE of the HARD work and money and time we spent over those decades had made any difference at all. But we never knew what narcissism was and my ex was never confronted with this probability. He got worse with the years, more difficult. Individual therapy in his late 50's [I insisted on] was instantly turned into a source of supply and he became a monster at home. I remember an older woman once telling me, regarding marriage, that however things are starting out in a relationship, that's pretty much how they will be at the end of that relationship. My big tip? Watch what he DOES, not what he says. My ex could fake anything, would say anything, and sometimes for long stretches things seemed to be working out. Even for years, sort of. But it never lasted. Also, an older woman therapist asked me, at the end of the marriage, "Does he love you?" "Of course he does," I replied. So she asked, "Do you feel it? Do you FEEL loved? " I had to think for a long few minutes when I had to say, "No. I don't. I don't feel loved." She looked at me with kindness and said, gently, "Because if someone loves us, we can FEEL it." This was a revelation to me. I was 57 years old. Ugh. Good luck and big hugs.
I think on that spectrum there’s definitely room for possibilities of change, and learned behaviour is hard to break.I think we all have traits of many things, I can be a very unpleasant person when big changes occur because I crave certainty as the adult child of an alcoholic. It’s about being aware enough to recognise it in the moment and change course. Those few ways he is hurting you, he should be working on them hard.
I think he is one of those people with narcisistic traits, but not necessarily a narcisist. The fact that he, himself, thinks he might be a narcisist, shows that he is self aware. He even works on trying to better himself for you. Narcisists usually don’t do that. They dont even admit they are narcisistic. They think of themselves as pillars of virtue. The rest of the world is wrong.
I used to think exactly what you wrote about my situation even down to the 2 years of therapy on his own and it really took taking some time to get educated in therapy myself about the things that would have happened in our early relationship, to go back read the old messages seeing how they 100% matched the textbook superficial lovebombing and then watching the specific patterns in our relationship and learning how 2 identify his specific patterns for me to understand that he is probably a hybrid of a "Neglectful Narcissist" and "Covert narcissist".
That he doesn't want to be a narcissist but that he is still driven by the disorder.
I learned to notice when he's being hurtful. Oh, dismissive, extra rude, breaking agreements, being mean, being some form of abusive again ... started predictably seeing the pattern of how what would trigger the nice lovebombing/idealization to end & the abuse/devaluation to restart... usually it would be within days after me putting my guard down or being really extra close to him again or from him being extra frustrated about something and being mean /abusive to regulate
...I think it's really going to take you looking at your relationship with him and really starting to journal and document the relationship to see whether where/when/why love bombing and idealization of HIS specific flavor is happening. And then when/why the kindness is ending with HIS current version of abuse coming back with any type of pattern.
I would strongly recommend that you get into a narcissistic abuse recovery support group, cluster B/toxic emotional abuse recovery support group or individual counseling for guidance on what is happening and to have a second set of ears help you sort through it.
I really wish you the best. Please be safe.
Wow. I went through therapy with my ex-fiance and literally had the exact experiences you described here. He was angry, accusatory, dismissive, insulted the counselor's credentials, insisted that all our problems were entirely mine alone, and when confronted about his NPD, angrily stormed out never to return.
My Narc brother was like that, he was right & everyone else was wrong!! A therapist homed in on him & he ran-away like hell!! He told my baby brother & my sister-in-law, he had anti-social behavior!!
I think they can change. But the problem is they don’t want to change. It’s how they were rooted this way. I really empathize with narcissists, I really do even they have major issues. Because we don’t know what they had been through as a child….Childhood trauma can affect your personality, especially when they get triggered by young age. But they have no right to abuse innocent people and wreck their lives. Their hearts are so dark they can’t get out this hatred and anger circle. Nothing you can do about, just leave them, period. Narcissists are complex individuals. It comes from deep insecurities, projecting their anger and hatred. Narcissists hate themselves, they don’t deny it but they really do hate themselves….Thanks for the video lovely Barbara.
Oh my gosh Barbara, you nailed it! I want to thank you very much for this video!
When you talked about the narcissist coming to therapy and how it would end, it so validated what happened with my husband. He would get three sessions in and come up with some excuse why we shouldn’t see the therapist anymore. And then, just as you said, he would tell me that it was more me that needed to go individually.
We tried three times, each time of course it was up to me to find a therapist by myself, even though he was the one that seem to have strict criteria on who we saw.
During the conversation the day he was ending our marriage of 12 years, I brought up couples counseling, and he said that you have to work on yourself before you can go to Couples counseling. Insane!
You have to work on yourself before couples counseling? Dunno about doing it before couples counseling, but you're going to have to work on yourself while you're _in_ couples counseling, for sure. He was projecting onto you and then using it as an excuse.
I feel like this is a trick question. A narcissist? Agreeing to therapy?! Preposterous!! 😅
Sometimes they are good·liers because they genuinely believe their own false narrative, not because they are good at being deceptive.
Fairley certain my mom has vulnerable narcissistic disorder, she constantly says things like "I didn't say that", "I didn't do that" and "I don't remember...". I don't understand if she believes this stuff or if she is cognitively using these defenses.
We can be having a very significant conversation where significant things are being decided and then a little down the road she is like 180° to what was said or "that's not what I ment" type of stuff.
How many years have you studied physiology, organ function, trauma, nutrition, biochemistry, psychology, stress, psychiatric diagnoses ? The examples of your mother's utteraances are no proof or even signs of NPD, it is dangerous and harmful the way laymen nowadays narcissistically allow themselves to be judges of other people's states and think themselves fit to judge by some tiny little reading etc. Please stop or do a proper, responsible job of it! There are other possible causes for her behaviour, for God's sake.And if you can truly ave significant talks with her, it doesn't sound in line of NPD. They can do that with starngers, playing roles, but not with close ones.
@Medietos Pretty sure you are just trolling/gaslighting. You don't come across as any help at all.
@@Medietos just out of interest how many years have you?
My narc. father would constantly say, "I never said that" & lie about so many things!!
My ex-partner probably had narcissistic personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder. We were in couples therapy (only once or twice) and I knew I'd need to talk to the therapist alone because otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to say the truth. But at the same time, I also knew that I couldn't ask for one-on-one meetings because he would've exploded on me later.
Thank God we broke up soon after.
Therapy seems like the ideal environment for a narcissist to do what they love best, carrying on about themselves.
You are so intelligent and well spoken. Thank you Ms Barbara!!!
A really useful distinction that resonated with me: There is a huge difference between being at fault and being responsible for a situation. In this case, you are NOT at fault for what the narcissist did to you. That is absolutely on them. However, you ARE responsible for getting your life sorted out and healing from it. They won't/can't help, so that part's on you.
This concept has broad applications. Another example: I got bullied a lot as a kid. That was NOT my fault. But I am responsible for getting my head back on straight and healing from those experiences.
Yes! This gave me chills it is so true! And thank you for sharing as I think it can be helpful for others. So sorry you had to live through the billing… wishing you healing and happiness
I appreciate your comment. It was an enlightening perspective for me. Thank you
You are absolutely right about the Narcissist w/ NPD.
I went to therapy with my wife (w/NPD; not diagnosed) it was a total waste of time and a mind altering experience.
I would always leave therapy with her….”Worse off, and always asking ‘What just happened.”
She would play the therapist like a fiddle, and I would always be confounded. She had therapist coming to the house for women time.
Therapy does not work on Narcissist w/NPD; to them
its their favorite playground to toy with everyone.
*******
Note: I figured out my ex-wife was a Histrionic Narcissist w/NPD after our divorce and I found myself in Crisis Shelter for months trying to recover from the emotional and psychological abuse for months.
I have been diagnosed with MDD, CPTSD, Sever Anxiety and Anhedonia. I am also still struggling with the aftereffects of the Narcissistic Trauma-bond……Sucks!!!!!
😢 I'm sending many positive hugs and healing energy you way. I hope you are getting the help you need . No one deserves this abuse 😔
My mom went to a few therapy Meetings with me, Throughout my life. Any time the focus came to her She was not honest. And she pushed her perception as more valid than my own experience.
Ever since I was a kid to tell me my dad was brain washing me. As an adult I think it was her that was brainwashing me.
How else would it be that she's never been physically abusive to me I have no memories of her yelling at me.
But she's the one I'm naturally afraid of. My dad was physically abusive and emotionally. But I still got the sense that he cared about me. He put in the effort to want to be with me.
I could be myself around my dad. And I knew where I stood with my dad.
I didn't with my mom. She would lie to me, As a joke. She would gasolite my experiences and memories. And she would invalidate my trauma. I have no memories of receiving any nurturing from my mom.
When my dad would hug me it was a real hug with love. And my mom ruined that for me, Made it so that any form of physical affection from anybody became repulsive and wrong to me. Because she put me in therapy and her in the Past. The therapist listened to my mom, And they both disregarded me, And with no actual proof Of witnessing anything.
So when someone doesn't sexually abuse you those little normal signs of love and affection like hugging your child, Become wrong. Any kind of physical touch becomes wrong.
I very rarely felt loved by my mom. And I think she was jealous that I like my dad more than her. Even though due to my dad's neglect I've almost died more than once.
For example, My dad learned that 1 of his friends was stalking me or did anything to me, He'd get p***** off and probably go to beat up or go to jail for something. He would get angry over it.
After he died, One of his creepy friends actually did try something with me. He became obsessed with me and stalked me.
My mom completely invalidated it. Said I wasn't being stalked that I just didn't realize he was pursuing me. That he and other dad's friends used to hit on her back when she was with my dad and they were partying together.
WTF. And when itWhat's happening to me, She didn't get angry, or show signs of wanting to protect me. She didn't even show concern for my well-being.
But my dad was the one who brain washed me yeah. No mom it was you. At least will my dad broke me down He did it to build me back up. You just broke me down and continue to do so, And made it my fault.
Dad was Willing To hear me, See me, Acknowledge how he affected my life even if he didn't remember. He believed me. He apologized and he really looked like he regretted it. And he spent the rest of his life trying to make it up to me.
F*** y** you b**** for telling me he doesn't care about me. Dad died, I'm a 35 year old woman what the h*** was the point of that.
Yeah this is still fresh.
Whats clear is they can become very extreme in denials and then dangerous. Run!!!!!
Thanks so much, Barbara. Your explanation of "taking responsibility" for narcissist abuse is a game-changer for me!
Yes, taking responsibility for the HEALING from narcissistic abuse (once you are an adult) is not taking responsibility for the abuse! This comment of mine has definitely been misinterpreted by some - so thank you for letting me know it was helpful for you! Wishing you health and healing.
Secure people understand that self accountability is power. People pleaser get offended by the thought.
I've felt like I have NPD for a few years due to how I am in relationship with my partners and ruining some relationships with great people. The part of the video at 14:28 was so helpful for my understanding. I went through an extreme pharmaceutical injury 10 years ago and went completely within myself (possibly dissociated). I shut down completely and haven't been the same since.
This helps to understand why I basically beg my therapist to acknowledge me as a narcissist while he wont accept it. I don't hurt people for fun, it's crushes me that I have hurt others.
So this helps me understand that this is a trauma response and maybe I have hope. I struggle to show care or empathy in relationship. I truly want to, but it's like its blocked.
The narcissist creates a narrative about himself that soothes his feelings of inadequacy. Then he feeds this narrative to everyone in his life with the objective that they will either give him validation, agree with the narrative, or at least not object to the narrative. If someone objects to his narrative, the conversation becomes a court of law and the objector must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the narrative is false. The right thing of course would have been for the narcissist to be humble, self reflect, wrestle with the feedback, and try to change if it would make him a better person. Telling phrases that the narcissist has donned his lawyer cap are "what do you mean by that?" or "when have I ever done that?"
Barbara is excellent. She is spot on in her analysis
NPD in couples therapy is definitely what I am interested in as one who is concerned that this is the dynamic that I am dealing with in my relationship.
If you decide to take the risk of going to couples' therapy with someone who has very strong artistic tendencies, then please hear this... it is super super super important that you only agree to go to a therapist who is deeply trained in cluster B personality types, including narcissistic personality disorder...
...Otherwise everything that you've seen the video, in these comments, etc is likely to happen.
Without an expert helping see thru their mask, then they are very...vapable of AND LIKELY TO manipulate the therapist....
If that happens then it could turn into something that makes the abuse much worse for you... then you end up having not just them, but them and the deceived therapist telling YOU that YOU should be doing a better job of regulating this entire other Adult human toddler... instead of THEM regulating their own self with basic integrity & self-control just like all adults need to do.
My mother is a covert narcissist. We are estranged as a result. Whenever she reaches out, it is all about "starting fresh" which sounds good on the surface but is horrible in reality because she NEVER takes responsibility for her lies and manipulations th as t she does to everyone she knows but particularly her children. When I requests us to talk to a therapist, she simply ignores me and ghosts me.
Marriage guidance highlighted the narcissism. It was hell!
Yes… wishing you healing and health
My wife, who I suspect has NPD, went to therapy for a couple sessions. Came back and literally told me she got her validation and the counselor agrees with her and I'm wrong. I mean, I don't believe her and maybe I should have expected it. But it still made me shake my head.
Been there!
Thank you for sharing your expertise. Very helpful.
I'm so pleased this was helpful. Thank you for letting me know!
I do my best to not blame myself if someone else doesn't take any of my suggestions/advice and sufferers ill consequences.
As a psychologist with a private practice who also taught psychology at a major university I always told my students that when entering therapy, if the therapist did not tell them their credentials upfront, then they should ask about their credentials and their experience with your specific type of problems (Ex: eating disorders ).
My experience has been credentials don't mean everything.
Had horrible, horrible experience with PhD/MD level practicioners.
One, a crisis counselor, head of the team, screamed at my second grader because my sweetie said he didn't know why he was crying.
Pounded the table. "You do too know!"
I took my guy and said, "We're leaving. " He huffed and said, "You would."
Then had social work therapists that I loved.
I said somewhere else, I do wish there was a way that if someone claims to specialize in Narcissism, that there is fairly uniform, comprehensive, training.
A more accurate way to describe a narcissist rather than saying that a person is a tool. They consider their spouses more to be a slave in my opinion. At least that's the way I fault when I was married to a narcissist.
If someone is over 40 years-old, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time trying to help the person change. I don't have the time to do that anymore. The brain is full developed by 25 years-old. By 40 years-old I would say it's nearly impossible for most people to change their behavior.
Psychologist/Somatic Psychotherapist with 22 years experience here. Agree with everything you have articulated. Oh, and boundaries - a go to quality that I also focus upon 🙏
This is the best explanation of NPD I've seen.
Nailed it! On 5th session he suddenly raged at the therapist and said “You’re against me and biased towards her! “ Walked out, then wrote a letter complaining about the therapist!!! Spooky how my experience was EXACTLY as you described in the video!
I'd like to see a video on NPD when it's a part of BPD. Maybe include a warning that abuse has to be documented because, as I was told by the abuse center in town, men can't be abused because it can't be proven in court.
What a disgusting thing for them to say to you. I'm sorry you've experienced that.
Thank you so much for your videos- they really helped me. Especially hearing about a covert narcissist helped me letting go of the pain, anger and guilt. I am much stronger on putting up my boundaries but I am still healing (which takes much longer than I thought it would). Just talking about it all here is rather difficult as I still question if I do my soon to be ex husband (of 20 years) injustice
My narcissist husband got kicked out of therapy. The therapist didn't feel safe.
My sons partner insisted on couples therapy. Didn’t go the way she wanted..phoned the counsellor and had a go at her and then punched a photo of her and my son so hard she needed surgery in her hand!
Yes please do a video talking about going to couples therapy when you're partner has many narcissistic traits ( they have not been diagnosed as far as I know).
Thank you for this. My partner and I both have CPTSD and narcissistic parents. We both have learned behaviors and trauma that keeps things really challenging.
I’m cratered right now by a narc sibling. Through the years I have gone along, praised, listened to those who dare to seem strong & might self advocate & then the grudge begins. unfortunately I made myself codependent financially so I’m feeling pretty low. After being gaslit to death for years today things were revealed in an interesting way. On one hand I feel better to know I’m not crazy. But, I have to step away no matter the consequences & that’s sad to me. However, I’m free! I’ll grow in that feeling alone!
You are right on about everything specifically to my situation and more. I have been following and studying about this topic through many other videos done by Doctors and psychiatrist. They are extremely helpful also but you are just right on. I think you focus on therapy point of view and that is unique about your videos. It is like you are reassuring and restating the thigs that I always vaguely wondered but was not so certain because I am that type of person who is extra careful blaming on others and making sure it is not my own fault at an extreme degree. Anyways my question is how can I find a therapist like you who is very knowledgeable for the very specific population. I am in currently in therapy and I have previously in therapy but always felt the luck of understanding of those therapist regarding ASPD and narcissist. If you could guide me in finding a therapist who specialize or have a adequate knowledge about narcissism and ASPD it would be so helpful. Thank you and I will be continueing to watch your video. People like you change life of so many out there who suffer. Thank you very much. I really appreciate you.
This was a very informative video
My one had a glaring lack of empathy and could not tolerate even a misconstrued hint of criticism upon which she would instantly rage and implement silent treatment for months !
I came across the term "narcissistic parent" Earlier this year and have been doing a bit of research. I'm wondering if my parents might be narcissistic. Among other things, they seemed very resistant to family therapy...They would sit in on one, maybe two sessions, then it would be back to one-on-one sessions with me and the therapist.
I don't know if my ex is a covert narcissist or not, but she does have many, though not all, of the traits. When we were together, she convinced me to go to couples therapy with her therapist whom she had been seeing for quite a while. Big mistake for me to agree to that. Looking back, I think it was terribly unethical for the therapist to suggest it. My ex had totally convinced the therapist that all of our problems were my fault, my doing and my responsibility. After a few sessions, I finally realized what a mistake that was to go to HER therapist and expect unbiased help.
In any event, my ex started the divorce in the most cruel and vicious way. I have come to realize that she did me a great favor by divorcing me, though I am still dealing with some of her flying monkeys, which continues to traumatize me. Working on it.
8:51pm EST
My husband and I are doing a couple retreat for 4 days. I’m really anxious and actually scared going into this. He agreed to go and likes the idea of vacation with a purpose, like I put it. However, a few days ago, I told him how important it was to not allow pride and ego into these therapy sessions. Maybe a mistake but I wanted to let him know that I hoped we could both come into this not afraid to place all our cards on the table. To allow ourselves to be vulnerable. That I loved him and wanted both of us to help each other become the best versions of ourselves. He started to reverse blame and get defensive. It is utterly exhausting emotionally and psychologically to be in a relationship with someone who has narcissistic tendencies. Here I am again. My first husband had narcissistic tendencies. I have low self esteem and confidence. I am an empath. I tend to look within almost too much. I sacrifice myself, my feelings, my wants to keep the peace. I want to feel empowered. I want to create boundaries, etc. I just don’t know where to begin. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge and experience!!!
Ok.. look they grow into it HARD CORE! My husband has always been difficult BUT he hit the age of 30 watch the hell out
Thank you so very much for all your talks. I allowed a covert narcissist move in after she super showered me with love but after a year it was clear her issues were NPD and once she realized I knew she had NPD and I stood my ground she left and I feel I was super lucky. But I have to figure out why I didn’t see it before and now I miss the non NPD version of her. Now I am super cautious. Many thanks again.
My experience with my NPD spouse was that she accused me of “manipulating” the therapist into believing only my story and turned the therapist against the spouse. 😂😅 OMG! She was there in therapy with me for 3-4 sessions but I manipulated the therapist right there in front of her, not to mention a therapist has an ethical duty to remain neutral. I had one alone session after that with the therapist, and stopped. 😢 Only recently did I awaken to her suffering from NPD. 😮 I was so naive and tried so hard to meet her manipulative needs.
Went to counselling with my ex narcissist, she told him he was too controlling, he told her she didn't know what she was talking about and walked out. That was the end of the counselling!
Spectrum means, covert and vulnerable narcissism. It's narcissism nonetheless even though it's not malignant or overt. Also, NPD is usually comorbid with BPD, Bipolar, Avoidant and Dismissive Disorders to name the most common.
I was asked to look after my grandchild regularly when employment began again for the mother. But although it seemed great, and on the face of it, a lovely opportunity for me to spend time as a grandparent, rules came in right from the get-go, and then criticism, unending, behind my back. My own child, the father, was sometimes around, and that was lovely, but criticism of me continued to come from the wife, at work. I decided to stop, and she could not cope with that, and has not spoken to me again since. So 6 years ago now. My contact with my grandchildren has also been prevented. Because of her. It is very hard, but I can clearly see that she has NPD.
I went to therapy once with my ex wife because she acted very bizarre every once in a while..she accepted. But we were in for a couple of minutes. The therapist asked one question and she ran away.. literally. I was flabbergasted but the therapist just looked at me and was flabbergasted too. This female therapist had no explanation and never mentioned narcissism. My ex's reaction was " normal " for me. But the therapist had no clue unfortunately. Had I known things my relation and that of my children might have gone quite different. I never thought about narcistic behaviour because the therapist didn' t recognise it. Things might have gone quite different and my children and me might have suffered less..my relation went on for quite a while. Poor children...I just didn't know, she has one son still living with her who idolises her..one is living with me but has no self esteem allthough I try to learn him. How can I explain that to my sons without driving them away? My wife and I are divorced for a while now, she "escaped" with the contractor who build our newly bought house...one son stayed..if he hadn't I would have lost everything..for years I sought possible faults of my own doing but now I find explanations. So thank you very much _/\_ it really helps to find out that things which aspecially influenced my youngest son in a bad way are more clear ro me now _/\_
I’m a parent of a young adult narc. And I’m an empathetic person in general. My life is hell right now. There’s not much info for parents on how to deal with this. It’s sooo hard. I’m manipulated, used & abused daily and am on the verge of ruining my relationship, with my other child who loves me, cares, is supportive and wants the narc sibling out of our lives. The logical part of me understands that the narc needs to go and that I need to support my suffering good child but the paternal part of me can’t let go of narc child because I do see their pain (or am I just so deeply manipulated?) I’m a parent to both & im heart broken 💔
I have literally wondered, at times, if maybe I black out and act like a jack and I don’t remember. I know that isn’t true, but it has crossed my mind.
They turn the therapist against you. One gal I knew was unhappy in her marriage and the therapist questioned her on her behaviour and he quit bad mouthed the therapist
What’s about the narcissist that want to change
I have a toxic family member with consistent narcissistic traits and personality patterns for decades (still has these patterns), and the weird thing is this person just got a Ph.D. in Social Work. Doesn't surprise me because this person always felt the need to "one up" everyone.
As a client this is an idea I had for approaching therapy with a narcissist. starting with a combination of effortless mindfulness, internal family systems and polyvagal nerve Theory could shift the focus. Emotionally focused therapy might then be more possible. And then guidelines on respectful communication, empathic listening, expressing appreciation and conflict resolution skills would be easier to do. The behavioural change coming after the attitudinal change.
My narcissistic sister-in-law started therapy to better cope with a chronic illness and talk about her childhood. I don't know what's going on in these sessions, but she's gone completely berserk now. The therapist obviously encourages her sick behavior.
Excellent clarification!
Yes. Sadly.
My ex with NPD convinced her therapist, that I was the one with NPD. At the time I didn’t really know what it was. I sure do now.
My mom is cold shouldering me because I won’t go to therapy with her. She’s has shown up in our relationship in a way that lines up with those traits, the lying and blame shifting in particular. She’s not safe. I’ll take the cold shoulder.
My cousin has bipolar, and doesn’t take the medication, but has been addicted to prescription medication from an early age, and drinks and takes copious amounts of ketamine/ cocaine, drinks vodka which doesn’t agree with her , and gets nasty, she says she has 1 kidney+ heart condition which effects 1 in 8 million people 🙄 we met up a few years ago I moved to the area after my parents died. I was the best thing ever to start with, and then out of nowhere I was shunned by her and the village so I moved away. About 3 years ago she messaged me and apologised profusely and we seemed to be close again. However behind the scenes she was mischief making, defamed my character. Short version is, I’ve been scapegoat for her drug addiction and projected on me to cover her tracks and I once again I am the villain. There’s a lot more to situation. I found 2 days ago what had been happening. Could you please advise me. I’m devastated and I feeling terrible, but I haven’t done anything to deserve this , please help me
There is a established friend group( 5 years ) that she introduced me to and then went on to tell me that I wasn’t liked . But they all take the same thing and I didn’t fit in. So I stopped going to the gatherings. She always states that she is empathic and everyone confides in her which I thought was great, but then over time It was clear she was telling everyone everything about different people in the group very personal and private details. Which I didn’t think was empathic at all. But at home when it was just family a lot of nasty things were being said. There has been in group arguments, but other people were getting blamed. And it seems that it is my turn. I have been blamed for having a fictional drug habit ( I haven’t) but it is cover up her tracks for substantial amount of money out of her joint account with her husband. There is so much more to say but I am sure you get the jist of the problem
I disagree with the fact that they CANT take responsibility for there actions ~ I just think they don't because it reminds them of there psychotic childhood traumas ~ it's like catching a narcissists with a flame thrower in there hands and theirs a burning house in front of them ~ You say " Hey !!! You burnt the house " and the narcissists inside there head is saying " I know i did ~ but if i admit to it, the pain i will feel at how awful i am will kill me so i will stand here and say nothing "
I'm not aware that our mother was ever officially diagnosed, but there were obvious problems. Following her suicide attempt when I was 8 years old, Mom and Dad were temporarily much more involved in our lives. They must've been under scrutiny, but the only advice we kids had was we were to blame for her rage and other abuses Meanwhile, Mom's earlier life was kept secret from us, and I'm sure the scrutinizers were never told what they really needed to know, otherwise I'm sure she would have lost custody. I cannot imagine treating my children the way she treated us.
I was the only child who would confront Mom so, when I was 14, she marched me and Dad into therapy to talk to a counselor about my problems. It took a few weeks for the counselor to suggest she was the problem. As you said, she dismissed the counselor as "unqualified", and the sessions ended. She remained a most difficult person, a cunning chameleon, to her dying breaths.
Hi I'm a woman who grew up with a mother who had NPD and would love if you would give your thoughts about couples therapy where one or both parties are dealing with relationship problems stemming from that parental narcissistic trauma rather than when a partner has NPD. Thank you love your videos!
I feel i am NPd, I am awaiting therapy, but I don't think it will do very little to help me.
My narcissist mother told me the psychiatrist told her he doesn’t understand why her family abandoned her when she did nothing wrong. I offered to forward her texts and emails to the doctor to help. Dead air.
I had to go no contact.
What I said to the worst one I ever met was that she was some form of Narcissistic Sociopath and the only difference between her and the others was that they function at varying degrees of aggressiveness, and that she was either a Narcissistic Sociopath with Psychotic tendencies or she was an outright Psychopath who by her own childhood grooming and self-grooming over the years, by the many-layered game she plays, appears to be a Sociopath but isn't. Less stigma to be a Narcissistic Sociopath than a Psychopath because who hasn't run into a Narcissistic Sociopath? That was 2016, and in 2018, I found out about the Cluster B diagnosis and psychotic tendencies. She tries to take over your life arenas and destroy you in the eyes of people who know you-including those who don't so she can pretend your neighbors, co-workers, etc., wants her to be in their life instead. She doesn't want them, just wants to pretend that everyone wants her instead because she was abandoned and molested as a child. She's evening the score to the extreme for what I had in childhood-a family that loved and wanted me-and goes after our kids-including sexually-to make us pay. She looks for males in position of authority that are likeminded with no problem breaking the law either, offers sexual favors to then use their big boy job titles to cover it all up so they can have sex with her again. She makes sure they understand her currency. She hates every mother ever born as we are surrogates for her prostitute mother who abandoned her. The story is too long and too vile, but I unmasked a legitimate monster and she knew it after our final conversation. She went after my daughter again despite my warnings just to show me she could. I told. Nothing happened just like she tried subtly telling me nothing would happen. By the time I figured out what she was, she was so prolific as a prostitute herself, I was already extremely triangulated using them to keep tabs on me and help her set me up as the bad guy to her pretend victim roles. She needs constant attention to the point it's beyond a sickness. She preened at me many times with her secrets of what she was doing that I had no clue about yet. I told her it would take a profiler for her full diagnosis and to catch her.
Pretty much nailed it
I am almost 100% sure my mum is a narc, but she's been in therapy for 10+ years, with the same therapist who just seems to be like, a talk therapist. IMO, this therapist is well-meaning, but entertains her/doesn't really challenge her, and is more like someoene to rant at for her once a week. A captive audience, basically. I vacillate between resenting this therapist for enabling my mother's narcissistic/selfish tendencies, and feeling sorry for her because she has to put up with the madness every week, especially knowing all the shit-talking my mum does @ her behind her back, yet she won't find another one. She claims she "can't afford to," but she can afford to get expensive cosmetics in her utterly futile fight against aging, and even procedures like Botox for non-medical reasons (I get botox but for migraines, I'm too young to need it otherwise and even if I weren't, I'd prefer to look ancient and not have migraines tbh. They've completely ruined my life, and I would trade a fleeting youth for lasting health any day, tbh.)
I don't know if her therapist has figured out she has narcissistic tendencies or not. She's one of those super feminist types that seems to believe women can do no wrong, so she already has a certain degree of bias. I don't really remember how she ended up going, if I'm being honest, I think part of it was because of her divorce/custody battle with my ex-stepdad. Is it possible that a narc would hold on to a therapist for that long of a time as basically a guaranteed source of supply? Because I've heard more typically what you say, that they don't like therapy.
She does not like suggestions her therapist would say that she should apologise or deescalate conflicts, she thinks it's the therapist telling her basically that she's telling her not to advocate for herself. I don't know if she's telling the truth about the suggestions the therapist made, since obviously I'm not in their sessions customarily (though I have witnessed some of them because of COVID, she would talk to her on the phone and now strictly prefers to talk to her on the phone than go in person, so that's where my comment about her ranting is from, to clarify), but I do know from my childhood that she does NOT like apologising even when she does wrong, she likes pretending it didn't happen and just going off after a period of silence as if that had never occurred. I do also know she's had difficult co-workers, so I'm not really sure whether the suggestion to apologise was good or not in every situation, I know my mum is a very difficult person who is constantly at the centre of conflict though, but it can be pretty confusing ngl. Sometimes, I just shut down having to think about it because it's like the more I try to figure things out, the more confusing it becomes, especially when things don't match as stereotypically, like for instance, my mum being in therapy for 10+ years, but with a therapist that rarely, if ever, challenges her and seems almost more like filling in the role a friend would have, because my mum doesn't have any friends to talk to and interpersonal relationships tend to fall apart pretty quickly with her/none of us adult children talk to her atm (I admittedly tend to go on/off, like I said, she leaves me feeling very confused sometimes and part of me doesn't want to believe she could be this, although the evidence seems to be pretty obvious at least behaviourally that there is something wrong, and I admittedly suck at enforcing my own boundaries/sticking to saying no and cutting her off for good, my siblings are a lot better at that than me), so I'd say we can't all be crazy.
My brother in law went to therapy with my narcissistic sister years ago ~ He talked about how the therapist had him express his view and then stopped him midway and asked my sister ~ What did you hear him say about you? He later told me *" She got it wrong every time"* I told him " Your actually living with someone who's detached from reality. She refused to go to anymore sessions ~ like he didn't see that coming~ right
I did not go into therapy with anyone who has NPD but I was smear campaigned by people who were trying to simulate an intervention for NPD even though I’m actually a survivor of multiple pathological people- not a person with the disorder. Questioned about every detail of my life and interrogated on many things that were invented. I’m traumatized.
Yes, please create a video with couples therapy and NPD. I am the partner
When I was severing the ties with my ex wife and she finally went to a few therapy sessions at the very end of our relationship, she said; "I know with enough time I can convince/beat the thearpist." You can't help these people, and keeping close to them you will only lose yourself.
My brother in law has all the traits of a covert victim narcissist and when he was out of a job for a while he got very “depressed” and went to see a therapist. He had obviously heard from people in his life that he was a narcissist as his takeaway from those sessions with a psychiatrist was an antidepressant and the announcement that “I’m not a narcissist he said so.” (announced to my husband out of the blue at a very infrequent catch up). He is one of the nastiest, most manipulative people I know and his lack of self esteem magnifies that. Yet out he comes with validation and yet another excuse to treat everyone around him atrociously (I’m so depressed etc).Most of the family have given up on him altogether, we haven’t see him for 3 years. But to get to the point, therapy gave him a ticket to ride.
This sounds like a classic narc bald-faced lie. Any therapist worth their license would be highly unlikely to tell someone they're NOT a narcissist, because lying and manipulation are key features of the disorder. I've heard of other narcs using this line though.
Glad for you that you haven't had to see him for 3 years.
@@bellaluce7088 good point. Sometimes it is just so hard to think like them. Thank goodness I guess. We won’t be seeing him again he’s just been too cruel to so many vulnerable people in their family. Their father is the same. And both such victims, last time my husband saw his father and called him out on a few things he denied all of it “I don’t remember” or “it’s your imagination” blah blah textbook stuff and then got upset because “no one will be at my funeral.” All about him to the bitter end haha.
@@futz1656 Ugh. So classic for your husband's father to turn natural consequences of his own misbehavior into a pity party. Eye roll. Glad your husband spoke up though. That's healing even if the other person never takes responsibility. ❤
Thank you so much. You are exceptional
All they do is learn new tactic and weapons to use against you.
My ex would flirt with his therapist and they were having an affair with each other. So that’s another way to get around it and manipulate the therapist.
Why would they change if they feel entitled to trample over everyone to be on top. Also, they perfect and no longer a need to give it further thought
Stop it people run for your life
From my own experience. Nothing changes a narcissist. Even seasoned therapists are fooled by them.
My husband believes I have an NPD - he is talking about it every single day. He is not a psychologist. And his guessing comes out from the youtube videos. I've agreed to go to the family therapy to get this diagnosis from a real specialist.
Unfortunately, such information can be very helpful for the potential victims of NPD persons, but can be used quite opposite by the guys who are the real NPD persons.
I would love to see anything about couple's therapy; now, I've pretty much decided I'm leaving, period. However... nah, as soon as I can find a place for my Mother and I, we have to go. Even if God, Himself, is able to burn out of her the Narcissism, I just need to move on.
Hi Barbara, i have a question.
Can a narcissist be depressed? Have you ever seen a narcissist being diagnosed with major depressive disorder? Can these two things go together?
Yes, they definitely can go together.
@BarbaraHeffernan but I haven't seen people who manipulate being depressed. They are usually successful in manipulating others and so are usually happy.
My husband went to therapy in order for me to marry him. He was supposed to go to therapy because he was controlling and wouldn’t take responsibility for his abusive behavior. He came home from therapy and said he would love our pets…. What…..
Would love to know narcissist with emotion couples therapy.
Our therapist eventually let him go and suggested he see someone else as he wasn’t willing to do the deep work. We got there because of his secret life.
He was diagnosed with a very very strong DA/ FA. I’m wondering now if he’s covert narc.
Outstanding. I must sdmit, the scenario made me smile. Is the couples video available?
How can therapy change DNA?
My husband is an abusive been for 33 years and he was supposed to go to therapy but he keeps cancelling appointments
I'm definitely interested in hearing about couples counseling with a narcissist. As both a therapist and the soon to be ex spouse of someone with narcissistic traits, my instinct is "don't." The narcissist won't change and you might end up giving them ammunition. Can you keep the spouse safe in a session with a narcissist?
Could you tell me: Can a therapist duped by a NPD and married, be of true healing help to sick patients? I mean to heal, not just get some intermittent relief or get a little better?
@Medietos Before I respond, I want to make it clear that I can't offer you any kind of professional help since we don't have a client/therapist relationship. These are personal observations of myself and others.
It's not entirely clear what you're asking for. Are you currently in a relationship? Or are you out/preparing to leave? Are you talking about therapy with the narcissist or individual therapy? If you're looking for help to heal, I would recommend individual therapy with a therapist who does not know or work with the narcissist. If you're doing therapy with a narcissist and the therapist seems to have been duped, work with your own therapist to decide what you want to do. You can't change the therapist or the narcissist, so you need to decide what you need/want to do to keep yourself as safe as possible.
What do you consider to be "true healing"? That's a pretty broad phrase, and it's something you need to discuss with your therapist. It's hard to accomplish something if you don't know what it is.
What a client can achieve with a therapist is hard to predict. Healing is a journey, and it can be a very uneven, uncertain one. It's not an easy one, either. It's different for everybody. People who make progress seem to have several things in common.
They get back up on the horse when they fall off. Maybe not right away, but sooner or later, they get up. They learn to mourn the what if's and the might-have-beens and then let them go. They're forward-facing, meaning that their healing is as much about finding out who they are, what they value, who they would like to be, and where to go from here now that they're out from under the narcissist's thumb as it is about processing pain. They want to be whole, and while that might sound obvious, it's not. They learn how to accept help, and they learn how to reach out for it. They learn to set boundaries with toxic people. They learn good self-care.
Mostly, they have a lot of courage, they work hard, and they give themselves a lot of grace. To sum it all up, I don't know if a therapist can help you find true healing. But therapy is a good option, and the only way to find out is to try.
@@SuzannaLiessa Kudos for the gracious and generous reply. ❤
@@Medietos "Duped" is a loaded way of putting it, but I can report that just watching *videos* (nevermind one-on-one therapy) by therapists who've experienced narcissistic abuse has turbocharged my healing like nothing else. People who really get it can illuminate what "it" is (half the battle), explain why it wasn't your fault in a *convincing* way because they've been there, and give you narc-specific tips for healing others might not think of (e.g. making a list of every awful thing they did to un-gaslight yourself and resist hoovering...).
I was a hot mess most of my life, but can now center and soothe myself, recover from upsets more quickly, state my needs and feelings, enforce healthy boundaries, and not be overly concerned if people are upset with me for silly reasons or simply don't like me. Huzzah!
I'm also no longer grieving the fact that my mother didn't love me, or secretly hoping that someday she will (she was incapable--no need to take it personally). Now I love and validate mySELF, as well as healthy people who know how to be reciprocal, honest, kind, and loving.
That feels significantly healed to me. So does the fact that I can continue learning and healing as a form of self-care without feeling desperate or getting massively triggered.
- Some of the therapists who are NPD abuse survivors who helped me get here:
Ingrid Clayton, Patrick Teahan, Jay Reid, Dr. Ramani.
- Ingrid's videos in particular are a master class on modeling what self-acceptance looks like.
- Pete Walker is another healed/healing therapist. His book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving is a classic.
- Same with John Bradshaw and his book Homecoming on doing inner child work.
- Patrick Teahan has some great videos role playing inner child work with his mentor Amanda Curtin.
When backed in a corner by therapist. They rin out
How probable would it be for a narcissist to successfully convince their therapist of the alternate reality they exist in or to weaponize their therapist against their partner? I suspect this is happening with someone I know but if I am right it would be a fairly egregious error on the part of the therapist and extremely effective manipulation from this person to have fully convinced both a professional and their partner that their flipped narrative is reality. Am I paranoid or is that actually possible?
Narcissists are made when daddy spoils the dumb child and scorns the intelligent one. You either deal with it, fight back, of F off. Choice is yours. I'm a combative type, so I stay back and fight even to the point of insanity. I'm a scorned child and still are well in my 40's but started to fight back on a kamikazi basis. I am all the following: Wrong nationality, wrong height, wrong language, wrong everything. Yeah, if you worship one child and scorn the other; the latter will be your end. #Yosef #Yaakov #Esa #Isaac