You want a buffer to drive the signal through the pedal chain, AND you want a buffer at the end to push the signal to the amp. You should've tried the same with another buffer BEFORE the looper/pedals. When you have all the pedals in the chain, it's like adding feet of cable. So the signal when it finally gets to the Xotic buffer has been degraded. But if you add a buffer IN FRONT of all those true bypass, you'll find little difference. UNLESS your Polytune is acting like a buffer, in which case I'm surprised it didn't keep that signal strong through the looper chains to the Xotic's buffer. It should have, but I can't attest to the quality of TCE's buffers. Loopers can create a problem you need a buffer to solve. All the extra cables in the path when you're using the looper. 6 pedals in your looper, using 8" cables to connect them to looper => 96" of wire (8 feet), not including the wire inside each pedal. 8 pedals chained side-by-side with good pedal couplers => 1.75" of wire.
Been looking for exactly this kind of demo. I went on the same journey of switching to better pedals, power supply upgrade, cable upgrades but what you clearly demonstrated is that all isn't enough.
One thing you don't mention is that when you use switcher, you use a lot more patch cables. For examle - 5 pedals in pedalboard = 4 patch cables - 5 pedals in switcher = 10 patch cables It might be a result why you get as much of top end loss in the 3rd round. So it isn't really a good " imitation of a pedalboard " in the 3rd round. It's not that drastic with my pedalboard ( 10 stomp's ) vs straight into amp.
i've got nine on my pedalboard ... and i dont get so such of the difference too ... but i have in the star of the chain .. a Polytune3 tuner with buffer ... and JRockett Archer in the middle (that i believe it has a buffer in it too) ... and in the end i have the FLINT (that i believe it has a buffer in it too) ... eheh so ... this might help "boosting" the signal too
Mikal - the patch cable count isn’t entirely valid unless you frequently have ALL of your pedals on at the same time. OTOH patch cable lengths will be longer if every run is from a pedal to the switcher (assuming 2 rows or more of pedals).
i have a musicomlab switcher. and while i use some pedals i get different output. Example: I have only the Hardwire RV-7 reverb in one loop and i get some tone loss when pedal is off. when i have another loop with the Wet Reverb pedal i have better sound when pedal is off.. Im talking about loops that have pedals and are off that matters if they have buffer. Its like you need a buffer in every loop so that each pedal to maintain the tone and output. i really feel lost and dont know whats wrong..
And this is the reason why I have been so reluctant to get a switcher device myself. I dont understand how people have massive boards and tons of cable where the board looks like an aqueduct of sorts with multiple long cable runs from switcher to each pedal, All that amount of added patch cables plus their length. It is going to degrade your impedance. Even with a buffered input and output device. I dont know if that makes sense, but I just cant seem to understand how people have these massive boards with pedal switchers and TONS of cable length that looks like downtown aqueduct town or a power plant and basically no tone loss? That is amazing. I have a buffer IO interface under my board. All pedals are connected in series using EBS high performance flat patch cables and I keep the lengths really short. then back to the IO interface before it goes to my amp. I have a mix of True bypass and Buffered bypass pedals. My tone stays the same. But sometimes I do wonder and would like to have 1 single midi and pedal switcher to do all of the changes with 1 tap.
Hey Kris, great video! Just a point about the buffers the idea of them is to drive the length of cable with a low impedance signal rather than recovering already lost tone, so try sticking one as close to the start of your board as possible (just after any sensitive pedals like vintage style fuzz's) and you may get even better results. Some people even like to use two, one at the start and one at the end of the board before the cable returning to the amp. (I guess to correct the impedance of any pedals with a funky output? Someone let me know if this is right :) ) Just thought if you've ever got spare time it might be cool to do a video on buffer placement
Needs a buffer at the beginning of the chain to preserve the tone. Buffer at the end doesn't recover the tone, it just changes the impedance down for the final cable run to the amp. A TC tuner, always on, with a buffer brings the impedance down to 100 ohms and preserves the signal through the board. :o)
WOW...when the loops were on it sounded like you put a pillow over the speaker...i never imagined it made that much difference...I thought with “tru-bypass” i was good to go...rock on Kris!!!!!
@@KrisBarocsi don't all the pod 500's, helix's, fractal, et. al. have this feature built in? switchers are for sure a plus... unless you play ac/dc stuff.
UA-cam kills a significant portion of the differences, but in the room the difference between straight into the amp and through a chain of pedals is huge. I got a GigRig QMX 6 to solve this issue. I have three pedals before it, but two of those have buffers that correct for the loss. It's almost as good as plugging straight into the amp now.
TC's poly mini tune pedal has a,switchable buffer. Does two jobs in one. Klon type pedals have high quality buffers as part of the circuit. Another way of getting round impedance loss on pedal boards. Not a fan of switchers but can see their appeal.
Thanks for the video Kris. It’s great that you showed the buffer and the switcher in the same video. A lot of videos I’ve seen show one or the other so it’s hard to get a feel for the difference, although I assumed a switcher would be better.
That’s exactly why I included true bypass and buffers. Otherwise the video would’ve been way too shallow. Happy to hear you appreciate it Liam! Cheers
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Truly an eye opener. I left the video running in the background while doing something else, though I knew you were testing something. When I heard the pedals off without the switcher I went "whoa, what happened there?" and had to look at the video. It was that noticeable.
I don't have any issues running like 8 pedals in line, but all pedals are true bypass and I have a high quality buffer before and after all my pedals (except a fuzz or two before the first buffer) I'm also using super low capacitance cables
Wow! Really nice video! So cool to see someone that has faced the same problems even amateur guitarists like myself have run across, then share the tips and knowledge you have accumulated. When I found out how much tone just the 3 pedals I use (wah, Overdrive, delay) was being sucked out before hitting my amp, I freaked out too! Was considering a buffer. A loop switcher may be a better answer since I’m thinking about adding a couple more cool pedals. Thanks man!
Without the loop bypass, it was like a blanket got thrown over your amp. It really makes a huge difference. I don't have many pedals but I'm going to be building a simple switcher to bypass them. I'll definitely do a video about it when it's ready.
Hey! Great video! I have one question. I’m using an Orange Amp with an FX LOOP in order to separate overdrive pedal and modulation pedals (delay, reverb, flanger). I’m really considering getting a pedalswitcher like yours, but how do I have to set it up with the FX LOOP? And how do you even connect a noise gate which already has a send/return..? I’m really confused about the connection..
Another thing I really like about switchers is not wearing the pedals out by stepping on them. Wear shoes is a must for me when using pedals. I have baby sensitive feet and the buttons on them start to wear me out pressing them with my feet. I know you can use button adapters to widen the footprint of the button but most times I have shoes on anyway. Less scratches and wear on the pedals... especially if you wanna keep their value to possibly resell them. Good switcher is a must for me these days. Totally worth it. As always, great video and much love from Tulsa brother.
Absolutely true, Eric! Most of my pedals are just dirty from stage dust but they don't have any scratches or other signs of use. Thanks for the comment man! Cheers!
Thanks for this demo. I’ve been crying about this forever. It’s amazing how much better guitar str8 to the amp with a 10-12 foot high quality sounds. The clarity and nuances are notable. As soon as you add even one pedal and cable there’s a signal loss. A high quality buffer helps but doesn’t quite compare. If I want to use my expensive boutique pedals all I can do is mitigate the loss with a switcher, buffer and the least amount of cabling. Its maddening...
I have the exact same problem, and the difference happens as soon as I have only one pedal between guitar & amp! Did you find a good compromise? What are you using to solve this?
Great video! A great buffer really is essential to preserve the full dynamics of your tone when using long cable-runs. I do however often find myself explaining the importance of buffer placement that many people seem to be unaware of, and that is that a buffer will only effect the signal to the next "active" pedal in your chain. I see a lot of people putting buffer pedals in the middle of the chain and then using say like an (non buffered) always on reverb last in the chain, that means that the buffer pedal will NOT be driving the signal from that point on (which most likely is the longest cable of the entire setup) So putting a buffer as the very last thing before the long cable run to the amp (as Kris demonstrating in this video) really is the best place to start in my opinion. Again, great video Kris! :)
Thanks for the video, but at bit confused at 7mins 20s (?). Of course buffers can not "recover" frequencies ? - they step- change the impedance of your guitar's cicuit, by a large factor, so that high frequencies will not be lost from that point on in the chain. So to stop your cable lengths bleeding treble (due to high impedance of the guitar) you must hit a buffer EARLY in the chain - a buffer (or buffered pedal) should come first. That's how they work; not sure there's any point having it at the end of the chain. Something all tone-lovers should know is: your guitar cable (the 1st in chain) must be high quality (very low capancitance) to avoid bleed. But after the buffer/buffered pedal, it barely matters - the treble wont be lost anything like as much. Sorry if that's obvious, but the video seemed a bit confused on that point. Nice tone and feel btw. The first min of this vid has a good demo... ua-cam.com/video/eaZY4P_hsuU/v-deo.html
I'm surprised you didn't mention using a dedicated buffer...has input that goes to and returns pedals and then another buffer that pushes cable signal to amp? Thats how I do it...have considered using a switcher with buffering in the right places.
How do you connect the noise gate with switcher, where does it go and do you need a switcher for the pedals in the FX loop beside adding them to presets?
Great video, thanks! I wish you had make the same comparison, but with the Polytune working as a buffered bypass... maybe is better trying to mantain the signal quality/impedance rather than trying to recover it at the end of the signal chain. I'm not convinced about the necessity of a switcher for improving tone, but there is no doubt about the coolness of not having to stomp a sequence of pedals any more
there are a lot of people that have a switcher and want to avoid the tone loss. i also have a switcher and i really hate to lose tone and output volume. some pedals doesnt have buffer the result is awfull. I havent seen anywhere someone to talk about buffers while using a switcher.. but even now i dont know what to do..
I have just gone back to using a switcher. I replaced all the switches as some of the originals died. After tonight's rehearsal, I may add a buffer under the board.
Great video. I’ve just recognised the signal loss a view weeks ago when I plugged straight in my amp. I thought about buying a Switcher. But I made it a little bit easier. I am now using my Helix as a pedalboard replacement 🤗
Awesome video ...learned a lot .. Is there any switcher that could control pedals infront of the amp and pedals on the FX loop of the amp? lets say solo boost before the preamp and delay in the FX loop with just one stomp..
Basically all switchers can do that. And if it’s a programmable one, you can swap between more pedals with one step. If it can switch amp channels, even that can be done with that one step. I’ll explain how to do this is my next Comment Time video. Stay tuned!
I use a fair amount of pedals so have used a switcher (joyo/harley) for a few years. With those units I love being able to program patches. Going from overdrive pedal, chorus, delay, verb into a clean amplifier then one click it's Fuzz, octave, another delay into the overdrive channel!
@@KrisBarocsi cheers dude! Ran a joyo pxl for years and that finally gave up during covid lock down so ordered a HB Pxl from Thomann which has midi so I can swap reverb presets too etc.
Great demo; staggering difference! Question: Any thoughts on how/where to incorporate "always on" pedals in a chain with a switcher/loop strip? More specifically, I run an eq, always on, as the second pedal in my chain after my wah, and an ep preamp pedal, always on, last in my chain before my amp. I'm thinking those are best left out of the switcher/looper to minimize cable length as they're switched on 100% of the time? Thank you for such a great video!
you can't get something back once it is lost. You are basically just EQing the muffled signal to be a bit brighter, but the original information is gone.
To do a fair comparison wouldn't you need to compare your pedals in bypass when NOT connected to the switcher? The connections to/from the switcher between the pedals will increase the cabling significantly as there are many more cables and they will need to be longer than connecting the pedals directly. I think your point is still valid and real, but I expect these results are exaggerated.
Yes David, you’re right. The differences are a bit exaggerated due to the extra patch cables. The shocking experience is still the same without the switcher.
Hi Kris - thanks for the vid. What happens if you put the buffer before the switcher (as an input buffer), rather than after the switcher (as an output buffer)?
Hey Peter, having the buffer in front is pretty similar to having the buffer at the end. Sometimes it helps even more but not always. The downside of that is most fuzz pedals freak out if you have a buffer in front of them so I stopped putting them there. Cheers!
Great video. Thanks. Advice please, I would like a small footprint switcher, good quality circuit that is programable but I don't midi. Suggestions? I live in the US.
I would actually put the buffer earlier, after any fuzzes or temperamental pedals. If you put it at the end of the board, that's like having an insanely long cable!
So Kris, I'm starting to play more and more stuff that demands tap dancing (swapping from an ambient tone with an analog delay to a compressed metal sound with a digital delay is just one example), I have 7 pedals, but since we're gear addicts more can come (though not a lot, moniez). :Are there switchers that will also seperate straight into the amp and into the FX loop of the amp? I know in the Helix you can set that up digitally, but it's still all done in the helix module. I know in that big Boss unit you can have the amp take up a "loop" for this, but that one is a bit too expensive for me :(
The Crocodile and Caiman from this same brand (One Control) have an In/Out, part way along the series of loops, so that you can have some before the amp and some in the amp's FX loop. These are expensive though. What I'm wondering is whether you can "spend" one of the loops of Agamidae on your amp's preamp section (imagine it as a pedal)? That would still give you 5 loops for your pedals, and let you decide how many go in front of the amp, and how many in the amp's FX loop.
There s something that i don get, with the swichter can i change the configuration of each pedal? I mean, for exmple in the loop 1 i want: the boss ds1 setting with the tone at 50 ( in the middle), and a reverb, and in the loop 2 i want the same boss ds1 but this time with fully tone, plus a delay. Can the switcher change the setting of a pedal when i change the banks? Im really confuse and all the data that i founded dont explaine this well.
Nice vid Kris. Yep, there's more tone suckage from a pedalboard than you think. During bar gigs, the audience will never notice, but for recording, it's important. Just curious how you programmed your switcher to get the individual sides of your KOT. My KOT has the usual 1-pair of IN/OUT jacks.
Was expetcing power supply, daisy chain vs isolated outputs, but this is also very helpfull. So far, I have no pedal switcher, but have buffered reverb as last pedal in my chain. I cant understand why The Rig Doctor has all his pedal boards without pedal switcher???
Thanks Stanislav! It was a bit of a surprise, right? :) Yeah, I also don't understand why he doesn't use switchers a lot. He probably uses like two buffers. If you have one of those in front and one after your board, you can get away with not using a switcher.
So using a switcher I can put each peddle in the loop going send/return and I can program into the switcher which pedals I want to turn on/shut off at the press of a button? I have an E-harmonics pedal switcher. Just figured I'd ask before reassembling my current board.
Hey, yeah, all programmable switchers can do exactly what you described. I’m not sure if that E-harmonics switcher is programmable too, please check the specs to be sure. My One Control is capable of doing this, I know that for sure. If you wanna check its specs, there’s a link in the description box. Cheers
@@KrisBarocsi ayy thanks for the reply, yeah it has that capability i just wanted to make sure it works how i was hoping since it takes up so much room on my board haha
Matt Allen Hey Matt, do you mean my Thomann video? It’s right there on that channel. :) Search for Pickup adjustment Guitar Tech Tips. You’ll find it. Cheers
@@KrisBarocsi your videos are really good Kris! I really want to get into guitar teching and maybe do it as a part time job as i enjoy it a lot. I've already learnt so much working on my own guitars and from videos like your own. Do you have any tips on how to get into it and do it professionally?
John Frewin thanks every so much John! I don’t get compliments for my English very often so I appreciate it even more. Switches are essential for good guitar sounds. I couldn’t live without one. Cheers!
Very interesting video, I guess it will helps many if you try to "educate" people to dicover the diffrencies in the sound. Sometimes is not easy to catch them, even with headphones.
Is the solution really a switcher or a switcher with built in buffer? And if I use buffered bypass tuner with bufferless switcher, is the signal buffered when the tuner is off?
Hey, a switcher with a buffer is awesome if you can turn it on and off (mainly because of fuzz pedals which hate buffers). If a buffered tuner is in a loop and the loop is off the buffer is also gonna be off. Put the buffered tuner in front of the switcher, that will solve that.
Nice explanation and demo of the benefits of a looper. I thought their only purpose was to simplify the “pedal dance” for the longest time. The buffer needs to be at the start of the effects loop (or before switcher). Also remember that the first pedal you have “on” after the buffer drives everything after it. For example, my compressor has a mix control and is on a lot of the time with just a touch of compression so I put the buffer AFTER that pedal. I’m still wondering if a buffer at the end would help as well …
Hey, thanks! Bigger at the start is more effective indeed. Fuzz pedals hate buffers though, that’s why I have it after the board when I‘m using a fuzz. I didn’t want to lose a precious loop „only“ for a buffer as the first pedal after the fuzz. 🤷♂️
Then consider connecting the buffer after the fuzz, but before the rest. What's getting lost can't be recreated afterwards. But having a buffer before prevents signal loss in the first place.
David Gärdeborn You are absolutely right, still there’s two reasons why I prefer doing things this way. I’ll explain everything in my next Comment Time video. 👍🏻 cheers!
Pascal Abadie Only you can tell that. Try your rig with the pedals plugged in and then the guitar straight into the amp. If there’s a big difference, a small switcher would help you. Cheers
I can sum up the video in one sentence if you don't have 10 minutes to watch it: always start your pedal chain with a buffered bypass pedal. I would choose TC polytune 3 since you will need a tuner anyway.
Mi Pe I use the Polytune and I love it. But it sucks way too much treble for my taste. I think I still recommend watching the whole video. Especially the part with the buffer comparison. Cheers
@@KrisBarocsi @7:50 what you tried there to "recover" the tone with the buffer that is not how it works. You need to understand the underlying physics. Buffering turns 1 MΩ impedance guitar output into a 100-150 Ω low impedance signal. (Hi-Z - Low Z as they say). Then the 100Ω signal can travel safely in long cable runs. So you cannot recover what is lost, but you can prevent it to be lost if you start your chain with the impedance conversion. I tried and look it up for you for more details read this if you don't believe me: blog.lehle.com/2017/06/14/do-i-need-a-buffer/ De amúgy gratu, imádom a videóidat és köszi a sok melót vele, igazán hasznosak!
maybe 25 pedals is what cha need maybe 3 but a smart switcher will definitely improve your SNR and help make switching multiple toys all at once without needing the extra legs of a tech side stage running ya stuffs 🤣
That is true! But it doesn't suck a lot of tone, especially not if I'm using my Super Clean Buffer behind it. That's almost the same as going straight into the amp. Cheers!
People don't realize that most guitar pedals are now made with digital circuits which requires A/D D/A converters. They assume the guitar player won't notice a drop in sound quality, but when you chain them, it really adds up. Modelers are the worst. They all put cheap 48khz A/D converters in their. Give me at least 96khz.
Wow didnt know that it made such a difference! Thanks Kris its nice of you to share this! Have a great week and stay safe!
I second that. Can’t believe it sounds like a blanket over the amp! Over to reverb to buy a switcher...
You want a buffer to drive the signal through the pedal chain, AND you want a buffer at the end to push the signal to the amp.
You should've tried the same with another buffer BEFORE the looper/pedals. When you have all the pedals in the chain, it's like adding feet of cable. So the signal when it finally gets to the Xotic buffer has been degraded. But if you add a buffer IN FRONT of all those true bypass, you'll find little difference.
UNLESS your Polytune is acting like a buffer, in which case I'm surprised it didn't keep that signal strong through the looper chains to the Xotic's buffer. It should have, but I can't attest to the quality of TCE's buffers.
Loopers can create a problem you need a buffer to solve. All the extra cables in the path when you're using the looper.
6 pedals in your looper, using 8" cables to connect them to looper => 96" of wire (8 feet), not including the wire inside each pedal.
8 pedals chained side-by-side with good pedal couplers => 1.75" of wire.
Been looking for exactly this kind of demo. I went on the same journey of switching to better pedals, power supply upgrade, cable upgrades but what you clearly demonstrated is that all isn't enough.
One thing you don't mention is that when you use switcher, you use a lot more patch cables.
For examle
- 5 pedals in pedalboard = 4 patch cables
- 5 pedals in switcher = 10 patch cables
It might be a result why you get as much of top end loss in the 3rd round.
So it isn't really a good " imitation of a pedalboard " in the 3rd round.
It's not that drastic with my pedalboard ( 10 stomp's ) vs straight into amp.
i've got nine on my pedalboard ... and i dont get so such of the difference too ... but i have in the star of the chain .. a Polytune3 tuner with buffer ... and JRockett Archer in the middle (that i believe it has a buffer in it too) ... and in the end i have the FLINT (that i believe it has a buffer in it too) ... eheh so ... this might help "boosting" the signal too
Mikal - the patch cable count isn’t entirely valid unless you frequently have ALL of your pedals on at the same time. OTOH patch cable lengths will be longer if every run is from a pedal to the switcher (assuming 2 rows or more of pedals).
i have a musicomlab switcher. and while i use some pedals i get different output. Example: I have only the Hardwire RV-7 reverb in one loop and i get some tone loss when pedal is off. when i have another loop with the Wet Reverb pedal i have better sound when pedal is off.. Im talking about loops that have pedals and are off that matters if they have buffer. Its like you need a buffer in every loop so that each pedal to maintain the tone and output. i really feel lost and dont know whats wrong..
And this is the reason why I have been so reluctant to get a switcher device myself. I dont understand how people have massive boards and tons of cable where the board looks like an aqueduct of sorts with multiple long cable runs from switcher to each pedal, All that amount of added patch cables plus their length. It is going to degrade your impedance. Even with a buffered input and output device. I dont know if that makes sense, but I just cant seem to understand how people have these massive boards with pedal switchers and TONS of cable length that looks like downtown aqueduct town or a power plant and basically no tone loss? That is amazing. I have a buffer IO interface under my board. All pedals are connected in series using EBS high performance flat patch cables and I keep the lengths really short. then back to the IO interface before it goes to my amp. I have a mix of True bypass and Buffered bypass pedals. My tone stays the same. But sometimes I do wonder and would like to have 1 single midi and pedal switcher to do all of the changes with 1 tap.
Hey Kris, great video! Just a point about the buffers the idea of them is to drive the length of cable with a low impedance signal rather than recovering already lost tone, so try sticking one as close to the start of your board as possible (just after any sensitive pedals like vintage style fuzz's) and you may get even better results. Some people even like to use two, one at the start and one at the end of the board before the cable returning to the amp. (I guess to correct the impedance of any pedals with a funky output? Someone let me know if this is right :) ) Just thought if you've ever got spare time it might be cool to do a video on buffer placement
Needs a buffer at the beginning of the chain to preserve the tone. Buffer at the end doesn't recover the tone, it just changes the impedance down for the final cable run to the amp.
A TC tuner, always on, with a buffer brings the impedance down to 100 ohms and preserves the signal through the board. :o)
WOW...when the loops were on it sounded like you put a pillow over the speaker...i never imagined it made that much difference...I thought with “tru-bypass” i was good to go...rock on Kris!!!!!
Yeah, right? I couldn’t live without a switcher since I first tried this. I was literally shocked. Cheers Larry!
This describes it perfectly.
@@KrisBarocsi don't all the pod 500's, helix's, fractal, et. al. have this feature built in? switchers are for sure a plus... unless you play ac/dc stuff.
UA-cam kills a significant portion of the differences, but in the room the difference between straight into the amp and through a chain of pedals is huge. I got a GigRig QMX 6 to solve this issue. I have three pedals before it, but two of those have buffers that correct for the loss. It's almost as good as plugging straight into the amp now.
Best demonstration of this I've seen. The difference is so clear. Switcher/loope just climbed massively on my priority list. Thanks!
TC's poly mini tune pedal has a,switchable buffer. Does two jobs in one. Klon type pedals have high quality buffers as part of the circuit. Another way of getting round impedance loss on pedal boards. Not a fan of switchers but can see their appeal.
Thanks for the video Kris. It’s great that you showed the buffer and the switcher in the same video. A lot of videos I’ve seen show one or the other so it’s hard to get a feel for the difference, although I assumed a switcher would be better.
That’s exactly why I included true bypass and buffers. Otherwise the video would’ve been way too shallow. Happy to hear you appreciate it Liam! Cheers
Truly an eye opener. I left the video running in the background while doing something else, though I knew you were testing something. When I heard the pedals off without the switcher I went "whoa, what happened there?" and had to look at the video. It was that noticeable.
En Japonés Con Rafy Haha! That’s a good story. Yeah, it’s pretty scary, isn’t it?
I don't have any issues running like 8 pedals in line, but all pedals are true bypass and I have a high quality buffer before and after all my pedals (except a fuzz or two before the first buffer) I'm also using super low capacitance cables
That sounds perfect! Good buffer in front and after the pedals is a great solution too!
Wow! Really nice video! So cool to see someone that has faced the same problems even amateur guitarists like myself have run across, then share the tips and knowledge you have accumulated. When I found out how much tone just the 3 pedals I use (wah, Overdrive, delay) was being sucked out before hitting my amp, I freaked out too! Was considering a buffer. A loop switcher may be a better answer since I’m thinking about adding a couple more cool pedals. Thanks man!
Without the loop bypass, it was like a blanket got thrown over your amp. It really makes a huge difference. I don't have many pedals but I'm going to be building a simple switcher to bypass them. I'll definitely do a video about it when it's ready.
Finally I get it...and thank you for taking the theory and turning it into a video! The best explanation in youtube!
Glad you liked it Nick! Thanks!
Great video! I also didi the A/B test before I splashed out for an ES8. The differene is masive. Thanks
Hey! Great video! I have one question. I’m using an Orange Amp with an FX LOOP in order to separate overdrive pedal and modulation pedals (delay, reverb, flanger). I’m really considering getting a pedalswitcher like yours, but how do I have to set it up with the FX LOOP? And how do you even connect a noise gate which already has a send/return..? I’m really confused about the connection..
What a great video Kris. Learned a lot subscribed to this one as well.
Thanks! I really appreciate that!!
Another thing I really like about switchers is not wearing the pedals out by stepping on them. Wear shoes is a must for me when using pedals. I have baby sensitive feet and the buttons on them start to wear me out pressing them with my feet. I know you can use button adapters to widen the footprint of the button but most times I have shoes on anyway. Less scratches and wear on the pedals... especially if you wanna keep their value to possibly resell them. Good switcher is a must for me these days. Totally worth it. As always, great video and much love from Tulsa brother.
Absolutely true, Eric! Most of my pedals are just dirty from stage dust but they don't have any scratches or other signs of use. Thanks for the comment man! Cheers!
Definitely hear the difference with and without. Thanks kris
Great video. Great back to back comparisons. Not too technical at all. Thanks. Very helpful.
Thanks for this demo. I’ve been crying about this forever. It’s amazing how much better guitar str8 to the amp with a 10-12 foot high quality sounds. The clarity and nuances are notable. As soon as you add even one pedal and cable there’s a signal loss. A high quality buffer helps but doesn’t quite compare. If I want to use my expensive boutique pedals all I can do is mitigate the loss with a switcher, buffer and the least amount of cabling. Its maddening...
I have the exact same problem, and the difference happens as soon as I have only one pedal between guitar & amp! Did you find a good compromise? What are you using to solve this?
This is the best comparison of buffer/buferless setups I've ever seen
Great video! A great buffer really is essential to preserve the full dynamics of your tone when using long cable-runs. I do however often find myself explaining the importance of buffer placement that many people seem to be unaware of, and that is that a buffer will only effect the signal to the next "active" pedal in your chain.
I see a lot of people putting buffer pedals in the middle of the chain and then using say like an (non buffered) always on reverb last in the chain, that means that the buffer pedal will NOT be driving the signal from that point on (which most likely is the longest cable of the entire setup)
So putting a buffer as the very last thing before the long cable run to the amp (as Kris demonstrating in this video) really is the best place to start in my opinion. Again, great video Kris! :)
Thanks for the video, but at bit confused at 7mins 20s (?). Of course buffers can not "recover" frequencies ? - they step- change the impedance of your guitar's cicuit, by a large factor, so that high frequencies will not be lost from that point on in the chain. So to stop your cable lengths bleeding treble (due to high impedance of the guitar) you must hit a buffer EARLY in the chain - a buffer (or buffered pedal) should come first. That's how they work; not sure there's any point having it at the end of the chain. Something all tone-lovers should know is: your guitar cable (the 1st in chain) must be high quality (very low capancitance) to avoid bleed. But after the buffer/buffered pedal, it barely matters - the treble wont be lost anything like as much. Sorry if that's obvious, but the video seemed a bit confused on that point. Nice tone and feel btw.
The first min of this vid has a good demo...
ua-cam.com/video/eaZY4P_hsuU/v-deo.html
I'm surprised you didn't mention using a dedicated buffer...has input that goes to and returns pedals and then another buffer that pushes cable signal to amp? Thats how I do it...have considered using a switcher with buffering in the right places.
How do you connect the noise gate with switcher, where does it go and do you need a switcher for the pedals in the FX loop beside adding them to presets?
This is incredibly important and is why I am proud to have buffered pedals on my board. It really really helps (if you don’t use fuzzes that is)
A couple of buffers is fine, but every buffer is a gain stage so your noise floor goes up if you add too many buffered bypass pedals.
Great video, thanks! I wish you had make the same comparison, but with the Polytune working as a buffered bypass... maybe is better trying to mantain the signal quality/impedance rather than trying to recover it at the end of the signal chain. I'm not convinced about the necessity of a switcher for improving tone, but there is no doubt about the coolness of not having to stomp a sequence of pedals any more
there are a lot of people that have a switcher and want to avoid the tone loss. i also have a switcher and i really hate to lose tone and output volume. some pedals doesnt have buffer the result is awfull. I havent seen anywhere someone to talk about buffers while using a switcher.. but even now i dont know what to do..
I have just gone back to using a switcher. I replaced all the switches as some of the originals died. After tonight's rehearsal, I may add a buffer under the board.
Great video. I’ve just recognised the signal loss a view weeks ago when I plugged straight in my amp. I thought about buying a Switcher. But I made it a little bit easier. I am now using my Helix as a pedalboard replacement 🤗
This is crazy... The difference is unbelievable!
Dani Torres Official so I guess the video answered your initial question, didn’t it? I mean the buffer vs switcher question. 😉 Csók Danim!
@@KrisBarocsi It did indeed! :D Pusszantalak!!!
Awesome video ...learned a lot ..
Is there any switcher that could control pedals infront of the amp and pedals on the FX loop of the amp? lets say solo boost before the preamp and delay in the FX loop with just one stomp..
Basically all switchers can do that. And if it’s a programmable one, you can swap between more pedals with one step. If it can switch amp channels, even that can be done with that one step. I’ll explain how to do this is my next Comment Time video. Stay tuned!
@@KrisBarocsi Thanks man... love your work.. Keep rocking!
I use a fair amount of pedals so have used a switcher (joyo/harley) for a few years. With those units I love being able to program patches. Going from overdrive pedal, chorus, delay, verb into a clean amplifier then one click it's Fuzz, octave, another delay into the overdrive channel!
My Guitar Stuff way to go man, your rig sounds awesome! Cheers
@@KrisBarocsi cheers dude! Ran a joyo pxl for years and that finally gave up during covid lock down so ordered a HB Pxl from Thomann which has midi so I can swap reverb presets too etc.
Hi. I know that this is a few months late, but I was wondering what joyo and Hb switcher did you buy? I was planning to get a switcher
@@francescocagnacci I got the HB pxl live? With two midi and two triggers
Great demo; staggering difference! Question: Any thoughts on how/where to incorporate "always on" pedals in a chain with a switcher/loop strip? More specifically, I run an eq, always on, as the second pedal in my chain after my wah, and an ep preamp pedal, always on, last in my chain before my amp. I'm thinking those are best left out of the switcher/looper to minimize cable length as they're switched on 100% of the time? Thank you for such a great video!
you can't get something back once it is lost. You are basically just EQing the muffled signal to be a bit brighter, but the original information is gone.
Best explanation I’ve come across!! Thanks so much.. Now I need a switcher lol
Any time Julie! Thanks for the kind words!
To do a fair comparison wouldn't you need to compare your pedals in bypass when NOT connected to the switcher? The connections to/from the switcher between the pedals will increase the cabling significantly as there are many more cables and they will need to be longer than connecting the pedals directly. I think your point is still valid and real, but I expect these results are exaggerated.
Yes David, you’re right. The differences are a bit exaggerated due to the extra patch cables. The shocking experience is still the same without the switcher.
Hi Kris - thanks for the vid. What happens if you put the buffer before the switcher (as an input buffer), rather than after the switcher (as an output buffer)?
Hey Peter, having the buffer in front is pretty similar to having the buffer at the end. Sometimes it helps even more but not always. The downside of that is most fuzz pedals freak out if you have a buffer in front of them so I stopped putting them there. Cheers!
I needed a good excuse to tell my wife. Thanks mate!
Haha! Happy to help where I can. 😂
ingenious!
Great video. Thanks. Advice please, I would like a small footprint switcher, good quality circuit that is programable but I don't midi. Suggestions? I live in the US.
Mooer has one.
old thread, but what if you go straight to the amp, and use the switcher on the amp's FX loop? does it fix things?
Really useful video. thanks
How can we connect pedal switchers and time base effects when we put our delay and reverb pedals through amps fx loop ?
I would actually put the buffer earlier, after any fuzzes or temperamental pedals. If you put it at the end of the board, that's like having an insanely long cable!
So Kris, I'm starting to play more and more stuff that demands tap dancing (swapping from an ambient tone with an analog delay to a compressed metal sound with a digital delay is just one example), I have 7 pedals, but since we're gear addicts more can come (though not a lot, moniez). :Are there switchers that will also seperate straight into the amp and into the FX loop of the amp? I know in the Helix you can set that up digitally, but it's still all done in the helix module. I know in that big Boss unit you can have the amp take up a "loop" for this, but that one is a bit too expensive for me :(
The Crocodile and Caiman from this same brand (One Control) have an In/Out, part way along the series of loops, so that you can have some before the amp and some in the amp's FX loop. These are expensive though.
What I'm wondering is whether you can "spend" one of the loops of Agamidae on your amp's preamp section (imagine it as a pedal)?
That would still give you 5 loops for your pedals, and let you decide how many go in front of the amp, and how many in the amp's FX loop.
There s something that i don get, with the swichter can i change the configuration of each pedal? I mean, for exmple in the loop 1 i want: the boss ds1 setting with the tone at 50 ( in the middle), and a reverb, and in the loop 2 i want the same boss ds1 but this time with fully tone, plus a delay. Can the switcher change the setting of a pedal when i change the banks? Im really confuse and all the data that i founded dont explaine this well.
Nice vid Kris. Yep, there's more tone suckage from a pedalboard than you think. During bar gigs, the audience will never notice, but for recording, it's important. Just curious how you programmed your switcher to get the individual sides of your KOT. My KOT has the usual 1-pair of IN/OUT jacks.
Was expetcing power supply, daisy chain vs isolated outputs, but this is also very helpfull.
So far, I have no pedal switcher, but have buffered reverb as last pedal in my chain.
I cant understand why The Rig Doctor has all his pedal boards without pedal switcher???
Thanks Stanislav! It was a bit of a surprise, right? :)
Yeah, I also don't understand why he doesn't use switchers a lot. He probably uses like two buffers. If you have one of those in front and one after your board, you can get away with not using a switcher.
So using a switcher I can put each peddle in the loop going send/return and I can program into the switcher which pedals I want to turn on/shut off at the press of a button?
I have an E-harmonics pedal switcher. Just figured I'd ask before reassembling my current board.
Hey, yeah, all programmable switchers can do exactly what you described. I’m not sure if that E-harmonics switcher is programmable too, please check the specs to be sure. My One Control is capable of doing this, I know that for sure. If you wanna check its specs, there’s a link in the description box. Cheers
@@KrisBarocsi ayy thanks for the reply, yeah it has that capability i just wanted to make sure it works how i was hoping since it takes up so much room on my board haha
Hi Kris, what happened to your pickup height tutorial video? I was looking for it today and couldn't find it, it was really useful.
Matt Allen Hey Matt, do you mean my Thomann video? It’s right there on that channel. :) Search for Pickup adjustment Guitar Tech Tips. You’ll find it. Cheers
@@KrisBarocsi oh, its on the Thomann channel. Got it, thanks! Its the best video on the topic I've found.
Matt Allen Thank you Matt, that’s really good to hear. I love shooting those Guitar Tech Tips videos. Cheers!
@@KrisBarocsi your videos are really good Kris! I really want to get into guitar teching and maybe do it as a part time job as i enjoy it a lot. I've already learnt so much working on my own guitars and from videos like your own. Do you have any tips on how to get into it and do it professionally?
So The easy way to solve this tone suck issue could be to get an Axe Fx iii?
Very clear explanation, your English is excellent (I’m English myself!) I always use a switcher on my big board 👍🎸🇬🇧
John Frewin thanks every so much John! I don’t get compliments for my English very often so I appreciate it even more. Switches are essential for good guitar sounds. I couldn’t live without one. Cheers!
John Frewin *ever so much
*Switchers
...#masteroftypos 😂
Very interesting video, I guess it will helps many if you try to "educate" people to dicover the diffrencies in the sound. Sometimes is not easy to catch them, even with headphones.
Is the solution really a switcher or a switcher with built in buffer? And if I use buffered bypass tuner with bufferless switcher, is the signal buffered when the tuner is off?
Hey, a switcher with a buffer is awesome if you can turn it on and off (mainly because of fuzz pedals which hate buffers). If a buffered tuner is in a loop and the loop is off the buffer is also gonna be off. Put the buffered tuner in front of the switcher, that will solve that.
My mind is officially blown 🤯
Nice explanation and demo of the benefits of a looper. I thought their only purpose was to simplify the “pedal dance” for the longest time.
The buffer needs to be at the start of the effects loop (or before switcher). Also remember that the first pedal you have “on” after the buffer drives everything after it. For example, my compressor has a mix control and is on a lot of the time with just a touch of compression so I put the buffer AFTER that pedal. I’m still wondering if a buffer at the end would help as well …
Hey, thanks! Bigger at the start is more effective indeed. Fuzz pedals hate buffers though, that’s why I have it after the board when I‘m using a fuzz. I didn’t want to lose a precious loop „only“ for a buffer as the first pedal after the fuzz. 🤷♂️
Hi Kris! Thank you for the video. Are you getting the same results with the buffer in front of the pedalboard?
That's pretty similar to having the buffer at the end. The downside of that is most fuzz pedals freak out if you have a buffer in front of them.
Then consider connecting the buffer after the fuzz, but before the rest. What's getting lost can't be recreated afterwards. But having a buffer before prevents signal loss in the first place.
David Gärdeborn You are absolutely right, still there’s two reasons why I prefer doing things this way. I’ll explain everything in my next Comment Time video. 👍🏻 cheers!
@@KrisBarocsi I like your videos man!
Great vid, Thats why 4CM is a good alternative.
Do I need a pedal switcher when I have a total of 2 pedals on my board?
Pascal Abadie Only you can tell that. Try your rig with the pedals plugged in and then the guitar straight into the amp. If there’s a big difference, a small switcher would help you. Cheers
Good stuff Kris, as always! Midi loop switchers next? 😂
What? Did anyone say midi? I'm definitely not enough patient for midi. Or not clever enough. One of those. Haha!
One of the best videos I've seen recently. You got yourself a subscription
Great Video
That Harley Benton is really satisfying to look at even though I also have it.
Levente Vághy haha! That’s exactly what I think every time I cool at it. Szia! ;)
... i have a question .... Cheap Programable Pedal Switchers .... :p
is there any ?!!!
:p
Greetings from Portugal
Stay Safe & Keep Rockin
well done
Interesting test with the loops on but the pedals off... I don’t think I’ve ever seen it presented like that before...
I can sum up the video in one sentence if you don't have 10 minutes to watch it: always start your pedal chain with a buffered bypass pedal. I would choose TC polytune 3 since you will need a tuner anyway.
Mi Pe I use the Polytune and I love it. But it sucks way too much treble for my taste. I think I still recommend watching the whole video. Especially the part with the buffer comparison. Cheers
@@KrisBarocsi @7:50 what you tried there to "recover" the tone with the buffer that is not how it works. You need to understand the underlying physics. Buffering turns 1 MΩ impedance guitar output into a 100-150 Ω low impedance signal. (Hi-Z - Low Z as they say). Then the 100Ω signal can travel safely in long cable runs. So you cannot recover what is lost, but you can prevent it to be lost if you start your chain with the impedance conversion. I tried and look it up for you for more details read this if you don't believe me:
blog.lehle.com/2017/06/14/do-i-need-a-buffer/
De amúgy gratu, imádom a videóidat és köszi a sok melót vele, igazán hasznosak!
For a small pedalboard I find the Boss LS 2 is a cheap alternative and it has 2 line level volumes www.thomann.de/gb/boss_ls2_line_selector.htm
Tone sucker are everywhere or are everything... PRS Paul says everything is subtractive . So only use what cha need 👍🏽
Great wisdom in these words. I’m not sure if I can resist having too many pedals on my board though. Haha! So switchers are my saviors. 💛
maybe 25 pedals is what cha need maybe 3 but a smart switcher will definitely improve your SNR and help make switching multiple toys all at once without needing the extra legs of a tech side stage running ya stuffs 🤣
When you turned on those loops, it literally sounded like you just put your amp in the next room over. I hate buffers.
Even your looper switcher sucks tone too. Heard a demo of that a long time ago here on UA-cam, and even the Carl Martin Octaswitch changed the tone.
That is true! But it doesn't suck a lot of tone, especially not if I'm using my Super Clean Buffer behind it. That's almost the same as going straight into the amp. Cheers!
6:43 between 6:56 says it all
man you really max out your board
arigatou, thanks, gracias, merci!
You’re welcome, gerne, szívesen, de nada! :)
People don't realize that most guitar pedals are now made with digital circuits which requires A/D D/A converters. They assume the guitar player won't notice a drop in sound quality, but when you chain them, it really adds up. Modelers are the worst. They all put cheap 48khz A/D converters in their. Give me at least 96khz.
You mean, most important AFTER the tuner, right ?
Enjoy the 1000th like on this video!
That’s awesome! Thanks for the heads up, I wasn’t aware of that. 🥳🙌
Impressive ...
Firstest....Hi Kris Awsome Video
Hey Ami, thanks a lot!
I think you are a genuin musical guitarist - not many famous guitarist are.
You have no idea how much I appreciate this. Thank you! 🙏
Wow. Well now i need a switcher. Ugh
I feel like I'm watching Kris, but listening to Paul Davids. Anybody else get that vibe?
This dude is great. However, his real name is Nobbel87.
For a small pedalboard I find the Boss LS 2 is a cheap alternative and it has 2 line level volumes www.thomann.de/gb/boss_ls2_line_selector.htm