One I hear a lot is starving pedals of power causes damage. Little do they know many pedals, such as fuzz, can sound even better when starving the power by a hair to get the dying battery effect.
@@cheesy6516 under powering shouldn't be an issue, it's over powering them that is. Restricting voltage will sound different, you can watch our Battery Power Supply demo to get a sound reference for that.
So, I hear that you need an input and output buffer but, I've also heard that all pedals are buffers when you turn them on. If my Bass Compressor has an input impedance of 1Mohm and an output of 600ohm, is that a sufficient input buffer or would you still recommend sandwiching the board?
@@isaacramirez3729 yes, but just like all buffers, there are good and bad ones. A pedal on is a buffer, but the buffer could, and likely does suck. If your bass compressor is always on and is 1M, that will work for the input buffer, but you'd still want an output buffer. If you got a higher quality dual buffer it also wouldn't hurt anything.
I couldn’t agree more Loren! I will say though, listening to Mason and other pro builders and going to soldered sp400s with Mogami 2314 totally improved my tone. I went from blackbird solderless and man o man the clarity of the Mogami
I got a new job and more money = upgrading gear! I was debating on compressors, but my standard dynacomp is perfect for me. No fuss, just shut up and play your guitar. Don’t fix what’s not broken 😎
I am an electronics engineer that is new to guitars and guitar gear. I must say the amount of myths ans false information when taking about guitar gear really blew me away. alot of it is perpetuated by manufactures so the can sell you over spec'd gear so you end up spending a lot more money than you really need to. This channel is spot on though with its advice being the best I have found on youtube. keep up the good work
Doesn't matter if you like the guy or not, there is no denial that this is just good information given freely by a knowledgeable person. Thanks a lot for this. Also, one question: does 18v increase the noise floor on overdrives/eqs also? I always heard people say the opposite: 18v increases headroom and lowers the noise floor. I have 3 pedals that take 18v (Cmats Signa Drive, Cmats Ratified and Wampler Equator), and I always run them at 18v "just because". I read everywhere on the internet that these Cmats pedals at 18v sound better, have more headroom, are more dynamic and with better note separation. Aside from the headroom, do you think that there is any grounds to claim that pedals become "clearer" and with better "note definition" at 18v? To be really honest I can't say I noticed any difference ever. Also, regarding the Equator, Wampler claims it is designed to "sound best" in 9v, but I just can't see how this could be true. I also run it at 18v "just because". Herd behavior is real...
Hope you enjoy the video. 18V typically increases the noise floor. Headroom also goes up. You may run them in conditions where you don't need the headroom to get the sound you want. There is no reason to run it at 18 if you don't have to or you aren't getting a more desirable tone if the pedal can still operate on 9V based on its design.
I have no idea if this is why, but it’s my best guess: Less voltage means a less clean sound. The best example of this would be 70’s guitarists purposely using dying batteries in their fuzz pedals
Mason, you hit so many targets here that on my sofa, I had to just pause and start writing you a message: right on Mason! on buffers and so many points, nothing but underlining and confirming as to what you said is so true. I could time stampt 10 points that you just gave away to the public, in one word: good job! Hello from Finland
A local player approached me several years back to redo his board cause he had suffered a cable connection failure during a live performance in front of 25,000 people at the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver , Canada . His board now contains Mogami cable , Neutrik jacks an plugs , and lots of Solder !! Great Segment Mason !!!
Appreciate your passion and perspective Mason. #1 Of course, all connections are not made equally; people’s experiences and requirements are also not the same. I was doing 3 to 6 month international tours pre-covid (where I’m my own tech too - reality for majority of working musicians), I’ve had more failures with soldered instrument cables than with my Free The Tone solderless patch cables. Mackie cable tester reading is the same if the cable is good. Regular maintenance is required either way. #2 Run my “input” buffer after fuzz, octave, boost and OD, like a “normal” person. 😉 #3-#5 TOTALLY agree with you! 🤓
There can be individual experiences but both being made equally well with the same wire, soldered will always prevail and prevail over time as the connections will not oxidize.
Been watching for a while now. You really make me rethink what i was planning each time and end up coming out with something better! Got my courage to start modding my pedals. Keep at it!
B+ running cables together it's the only one I got wrong. I figured out the 18v with an sp comp . Moving the goal post is a good analogy. More noise because I had to dime it to get it to compress to my liking.
I found out 18V wasn’t always optimal with the exact same pedal, funny enough. The manual tells you to try it at 18V, but I couldn’t get rid of a certain low, but very present hum until I set it back to 9V then it worked as it should.
@@atonofspiders of all the pedals I have that can use 18 none actually sound better. More headroom is usually the opposite of what i want especially with comp.
Thx mason There’s some hate around you I was hesitant at first But I dig your work and love your pedals You clearly have passion and dedication to this I’m a lifer in music make it or break it I’m having a blast Thx man Bout to build my first pro pedal board 🙏🙏🙏
Hi, touring musician here.... After #1 I gave up, stagger your input and output jacks and maybe I can start using soldered cables again.... but I can’t tell you how many 6in patch cables I smoked having to twist them to get them to work where I wanted my pedals to be. I changed over to George L’s Solderless cables years and years ago and never been happier. I run A/B stereo style pedal 5 pedals split into two other boards with 5 pedals each running to separate amps 15 pedals total so I went from running 7 extra feet for 6in patch cables to just under 20 inches of cable and it had a HUGE effect on my tone.
I guess you're presuming in all this that the patch cable quality was good when you were using soldered, and my guess is that it wasn't high quality. Most quality patch cables, ours included, have lifetime warranties and can be made to any length you want from 3" to 42" so you can order whatever you want and most companies are doing that now. When's the last time you saw a lifetime warranty on a solderless cable - I sure haven't.
Would love a video comparing different buffer input/output impedances. Don't know how entertaining it would be, but something like the cable test video with expert opinions on how the buffers affect the overall tone.
Awesome Episode Mason, really informative, I always learn something cool from your vids!! Stay Groovy man!! (maybe explore myths concerning the use and order of Fuzz and Wah)
The reason why running DC power cables next to audio cables is ok while doing the same with AC will cause noise is because DC cables produce a steady magnetic field while AC doesn't. The magnetic field produced by a cable is proportional to the current flow and changes directions when the flow changes direction such as when AC oscillates. Noise is caused by the magnetic field inducing a current in another wire (your audio cable) that is inside the field, but current is only induced if the magnetic field is changing. DC field doesn't really change, but AC oscillates at 60Hz (or 50Hz depending on your grid), so DC will not induce noise into your other cables, but AC will.
True except if your DC supply goes out of regulation and induces a ripple on the output. You'll get a lower magnitude AC ripple that could be induced on any nearby audio cable. But a good supply should maintain regulation up to the maximum current.
Great stuff! I look forward to seeing more videos like this. Knowledge is power especially as a musician when you have to work on your own rigs lol 😁🙏🏾thank you Mason! Appreciate you man!
I've read a bunch of descriptions for power supplies online, none of them mentions switch or linear. All of them claim to be 'isolated' and 'noise free'. From a £20 to £250. How am I going to find this out prior to purchase if manufacturers do not include this information? Or am I let to go though countless forums looking for the information? It shouldn't be that difficult to state this in the product description.
There will be clues in the description. Looking on Sweetwater at the CS12 and Zuma, for example, you see switch-mode, switchable, and worldwide in the description. The Voodoo specifically says in its description that it has a toroidal transformer.
Appreciate the time you take to make a bunch of videos to educate people on this stuff. I myself am planning on building my own pedal board, wouldn’t have the confidence to do so without you keep up the good work👍🏻
Thanks for the debunk on Dc cables vs audio. I had read that and I remember looking over at my gear and thinking "if that's true, I should have all kinds of noise?" It stuck in the back of my brain and the next time I was setting up a board I was trying to keep the 2 separate. I kinda gave up on the idea. Imagine if it were true! We'd have to set things up quite differently.
I have some early 1980s DOD pedals that use 1/8 in plugs I have a old DOD power supply but it is not isolated What can I use Will it make too much noise if I use the DOD and use Boss psa120 for my other Boss pedals thanks
You can buy 1/8" cables from Voodoo Lab to use with any normal power supply. The 1/8" is just a different barrel size, it won't change the noise floor using a supply with a 2.1mm barrel size. You'll just need an adaptor or a new cable to go to your power supply.
Thanks for all your advice the difference between my old and new boards since I started following you is night and day in terms of noise and reliability.
Possible downsides of switching mode power supplies is "beat tones", particularly with pedals that use charge pumps. Another problem with them is when they fail, it's often catastrophic and can run wall voltage down to your pedals as they generally don't have any protections for that. Each power supply design has it's plusses and minuses. Electromagnetic shielding is easy to add to linear supplies in the form a faraday cage, older power supplies often have this built in to the form factor they are encased in.
This would be a problem with the design of a particular switch mode supply or the design of the pedal using a charge pump - not something inherent in either. Yes charge pumps (or any pedal with high frequency) can cause this kind of problem. This is because it is a poor design. When a high frequency that is “above” audible is in the output of one pedal and the second pedal also has a high frequency with the audio (from any high frequency circuitry - in this case the high frequency oscillator for the delay device) both frequencies create a sub harmonic that is in the audible range and it will change depending on the chorus or delay setting (high frequency oscillator) so the noise will change with setting. This stuff happens when the circuitry is poorly designed, corners are cut, or the engineer does not understand enough electronics. The very old devices were built as cheap as possible with no thought of other pedals in the chain and the devices they had to work with (let alone affordable) were pretty bad back then. I am surprised this does not show up a lot. It really should be a big problem often based on most of the designs I have seen. Most people are just lucky, we should be seeing a lot more of this problem in reality.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah we should see it more, I've seen it a few times, it's very annoying and hard to track down sometimes as it can be an interaction between two pedals and the supply. Some inexpensive effects (I won't name names) still can have this problem. The power supplies should filter out that high freq noise too (again not naming names).
Thank you for this video. It confirms many items that I learned in college back in 1988. Especially the running signal with DC and keeping AC perpendicular to the DC wiring. The perpendicular part I was also doing while I was wiring controls panel at my job during those college years.
I’m confused: when you were talking about linear power supplies causing interference and explaining that you mount them up top away from pedals you show a shot of the the True Tone supply - but earlier you classify those power supplies as Switching types (which wouldn’t cause interference). Can you clarify?
I think it was just showing a power supply in the video...our editors aren't technical and I didn't catch the discrepancy. The Truetone is switch mode to be clear.
I like the idea of debunking myths but YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG about Switch mode and Linear power supplies. Switch mode supplies are fundamentally noisier than linear power supplies because they are switching during the regulation process at frequencies between 100Khz-1MHz. This switching noise, its harmonics and subharmonics, can be reduced but it is costly to add the supression components. Linear supplies do not switch their input voltage to regulate their output, thus they do not generate switching noise. Additionally if they have a gapless toroidal transformer a linear supply will generate less field than a cut core transformer. Simple circuit layout and a metal box will be sufficient to shield the 60Hz field noise of a linear supply transformer. With the high frequencies generated in a switching supply the enclosure needs to be continuous at the seams and the ac input and dc outputs need supression at the switching frequencies. So why are switching supplies popular? COST and efficiency, In consumer electronics price of manufacture and sale is most important to maximize profit. That being said I DO AGREE that solderless cables are much less desirable than soldered so i do appreciate your info on those.
I'm sure you're right but after watching this, I replaced my voodoo labs power supply with the Strymon Zuma and my noisy cramped pedal board became quiet
Donald, if you're looking at two supplies in our field - guitar based products and accessories - that have equal number of outputs, voltage ranges, and current output that are the best examples in their respective classes of switch mode and linear, then the linear will NOT be superior, in particular, if you're looking at what shows up in the audio range. I think many critics here of switch mode supplies are taking poor examples of these style supplies and putting them up against a gold standard linear powers supply - that's an easy straw man to knock down. If you put a Strymon Zuma ($249.99) against a Pedal Power Mondo ($279.99) it's pretty easy to see why you'd want to go with a switch mode supply practically. The Zuma less than one-third of the size, has more voltage options, more current per output, can work in any country in the world, and can be placed anywhere on the pedalboard without consequence of noise or risk of the magnetic field interfering with your pedals with ZERO noise in the audio range from the supply. The Mondo, by contrast, has no consequential electromagnetic shielding - fully aluminum chassis (which most linear supplies have that are putting out as much current and voltage options as the Mondo because they use the chassis as a heatsink). As a result, this supply causes noise if you get your pedals too close to it (or even your patch leads), or dare I say, put it under your pedalboard like most DIY folks do on a Pedaltrain or similar style board. You've put your pedals in the path of the magnetic field and the more current you draw against the supply the more intensified the field becomes. Now you can place the Mondo on a board in a way where it's going to be objectively equal in performance to the Zuma without any noise risk in an equal environmental condition. However, it will command more space, a larger pedalboard if you're using the same number of effects on a rig as you would with a Zuma as your PSU. Your routing and pedal placement will also have to consider the magnetic field - again needing more space on the board to distance the supply from the pedals. Coming full circle to the practicality stand point, I don't see how this is advantageous to someone building a rig in 2021 with a choice between these two supplies all things being equal. The biggest thing that I think you're discounting here about linear supplies (along with some other critics here in the comments section) is you underestimate the magnetic field leakage and the fact that most of these linear supplies aren't actually toroidal transformers even though they say they are, and as a result don't have the same benefits. A true toroid has to have these qualities: a round, not oval, magnetic core and even that isn't enough. It has to have equal winds fully (360 degrees) around this magnetic core or it "leaks" magnetic field. Also, any hold down material down the center can cause spurious leakage. If the center hold down bolt is magnetic material, it has to be perfectly centered or will cause issues. Non-magnetic stainless steel (not all stainless steel is non-magnetic by the way, there are many different stainless steel grades) - even then, a toroid leaks, it just does so in a controlled manner and at a low level on axis of the hole where a steel chassis or steel can control it. The advantage is the horizontal magnetic filed is null, so sensitive electronics on that plane will not see any magnetic field. I have seen it done wrong with some major manufacturers power supplies that actually defeats the expensive toroid altogether.
You have a wealth of knowledge, and experience and you are a star for sharing it, and not jealously guarding it. Polite observation: you need an editor for your videos - someone who is harsh and cuts down the footage.
It's always a tough gig making blanket statements... There is more background knowledge in your head informing your opinion than you can reasonably explain in a few minutes. There's often a kernel of "It depends..." in these answers somewhere. On the linear vs. switch mode power supply question: I've seen examples of (admittedly "poor") switch mode power supplies that emit high-frequency hash that some pedals can pick up as noise with some "whistles". I've also recently been through a design exercise and made myself a very efficient linear supply (with multiple types of interference suppression) that measures to have lower losses and better power factor than many of the switchers claim to have. But I've also designed it specifically for the way I use things and it isn't as flexible as an SMPS. Anyway, my point is that a "well designed" linear power supply can be quieter and more efficient than a "not so well designed" SMPS. Yes, you need to take care with locating it so that the magnetic field doesn't interfere with your pedals (the only thing I've had a little trouble with is a Dunlop Crybay...), but one should also take similar care checking out an SMPS. Your point is well made as a "general" comment, but I don't think it's quite as black-and white as it came across. YMMV. It's probably similar with buffers: As you say, they aren't all equal. I think that with most things about our rigs, we need to find what works for us. Unless there is a glaring problem, it is sometimes difficult to be objective and decide that I made a bad choice and should change something. And maybe I'm being overly defensive of my linear power supply because I invested so much time into it...
I don't think anything in here that I say is disqualified by what's stated in the video. With respect to the power supplies, taking two equally equipped supplies, both well made to the industry standard, one linear - one switching. The switching is going to be as quiet, more efficient, lighter, work anywhere in the world (unless the linear supply has a multi-tap transformer for offsets for each country), will provide more power and current to a cost equivalent linear supply. Furthermore you're not going to have any risk of noise depending on where it sits in relation to your pedals or interacting with say your wah inductor. It is the magnetic field leakage that most people don't understand as the critical factor between linear and switch mode power supplies in the context of a pedalboards. There are a lot of power supplies claiming to have toroids, but they are not really. A true toroid has a round, not oval, magnetic core and even that's not nearly enough. It has to have equal winds fully 360 degree around this magnetic core or it leaks magnetic field. Also any hold down material down the center can cause spurious leakage. If the center hold down bolt is magnetic material, it has to be perfectly centered or will cause issues. Non-magnetic stainless steel (not al stainless steel is non-magnetic by the way, there are many different stainless steel grades) and even then, a Toroid leaks, it just does so in a controlled manner and at a low level on axis of the hole where a steel chassis or steel can control it. With buffers, there is a standard for neutral. A buffer shouldn't add color by definition and the litmus test for a good one should be guitar plugged into amp with a 10ft cable of your choice as the reference. You won't be able to get a pedalboard with 30 ft. of cable, 10 pedals, and a mix of true bypass and buffered pedals to get the same tone as a 10ft cable unless you're willing to adhere to certain buffering guidelines and qualities, and even then you might not fully get back to the "neutral" reference. The 1M input impedance and 100 ohm output impedance is a good general starting point. Most buffers are way higher on the output Z especially - 1K is typical. In practice 1K won't do very well with any amount of capacitance on the output and the more it has to drive the more unstable it becomes. You may like this sound - but it's not a buffer. Buffers aren't distortion generators.
I tightened every input/output and replaced all of my patch cables when I was still getting hum after getting a VooDoo Mondo. Now I know why it was happening. Thanks, Rig Doctor!
@@VertexEffectsInc That explains why it also went away. Moved my looper pedal to the other side so I can control it with my right foot (better foot-eye coordination with that right foot). Still sad to see that I'm going to lose some pedalboard real estate until I upgrade the power supply.
Jessie...thanks. I would say I'm pretty average, just most pedal guys don't understand it at all so it makes it hard to get the facts right. I'm low man on the totem pole compared to some of these rock start engineers out there, however most of them are averse to UA-cam so you're stuck with me for now ;)
Had a boutique builder recently put a manifesto in their product manual about how terrible all switching power supplies are and that their products can ONLY use a transformer-based linear supply. It was a strange thing because I’ve been so used to hearing everyone complain about noise from the magnetic fields on older linear power bricks, but they had this narrative that “switch-mode power may be fine to charge your cell phone, but they are cheaply manufactured and can introduce noise on effect pedals”.
A cheap switch mode supply can be bad and problematic, but there are some great ones, and some of the bad ones often reveal issues with pedals that are oversights in the engineering. I don't know who it is that you're talking about, but I think he's making a generality based on a bad switch mode supply and not the quality ones like the Cioks, Strymon, and some of the newer Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 3 varieties.
Correctly engineered switching power supplies are a beautiful thing. One thing I have noticed is many of those trashing switching power supplies trash Class D amps. I demoed a Quilter Tone Block and it blew me away. I'm buying one plus a 4ohm speaker cabinet with 2 12 inch greenbacks
DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT messing with voltage (idiocy). Manufacturers specifications are printed for very good reasons. Increasing voltage is NOT something to be encouraged in any circumstance.
Great video. The only thing I can’t agree with is regarding buffers - TL072 make excellent buffers in the right configuration. Anything else is silly mojo talk. Also - the power supply myth need some clarification: a linear power supply will feed cleaner DC (if it’s filtered properly). However in recent years, higher end switch-mode PSU’s have become good enough that the difference in result for our application is negligible, thus favorable for size, cost, variable input voltage and lastly lower interference, as mentioned in the video. With that said, a toroidal transformer will have most of it’s magnetic field on the inside of the coil, meaning that it’s usually safe to put a pedal next to it. In many conditions it’s perfectly fine to put things on top too, depending on type of pedal (a pedal which internal amplification, i.e overdrive/distortion is generally undesirable, while e.g a tuner most often works just fine). Conclusion: I’d rather have a quality linear PSU (with a toroidal transformer) than a cheap switch-mode one, whereas the pros of a quality switch-mode PSU usually outweighs the cons (potential high frequency noise) nowadays. Ps. A switch-mode PSU also has a transformer, just a different type and in a different configuration (and purpose). 😉
TL072 can be used to make a buffer, sure - just not a neutral one. Even TI will tell you they can't run a TL0 below 1K without issues. I see guys trying to run TL072 close to zero, but still will not be able to drive long lines - TL0 series has very poor current output and has stability problems driving output capacitance. Again, TI states that normal use is at least 1000 ohms (1K) series output to keep stable under. Also, the input biasing is very poor. You're going to get color, distortion, etc. with a TL0 and that's not what you want for a buffer. Buffers aren't and shouldn't be distortion generators.
In our field, with the quality of switch mode power supplies, and the size of them, there is no reason to use a linear supply any longer. The question is not which is better on an infinite spectrum, but rather what's the best solution given our application and what's actually available (there really aren't any REAL true "toroid" supplies out there for the most part - or very few). Remember, our field has few, if any, standards, pedals are spec'd and the maker's discretion. A real "wild west". Designing products like a power supply is all about engineering compromises, and I think most notably, the litmus test is "what's in the audio range". If you can filter accordingly so any noise is well about what the human ear can detect that you're pretty safe and they've been using this for years on the Pro Audio side even though we're just adopting it now in guitar pedals and accessories. I think the false premise here is about the presumption of application and use on a pedalboard and the quality of a high end linear supply in other industries as being equal in the pedal industry. In our field, with our application for pedals there are far more issues with linear supplies than with switch mode supplies of equal quality. Namely because, 1) getting a linear supply to produce the same voltage options and current options as switch mode for today's pedals - you're looking at a supply twice as big and twice as heavy (at least) than its switch mode equivalent. 2) most of the larger supplies that can get close to what the higher end switch mode supplies provide (in terms of V and mA) are aluminum so they can use the chassis as a heat sink - this means no more electromagnetic shielding. Magnetic leakage is now an issue and you're going to have sensitivities to pedals in proximity to the supplies. This is further problematic because these higher current pedals draw so much that you're most of the linear supplies I see come through here are almost pulling max current which means the magnetic field is as exaggerated as it can be - typically resulting in more noise issues. And again many of these "Semi-Toroid" (mostly C core or R core) supplies don't have mumetal or steel caps on them, so not much protection there. Easy to test this with a single coil pickup wired to a 1/4" jack - I do this all the time when I used to work with more linear supplies to see exactly where there were "problem areas". 3) Linear supplies are impractical for bands that travel - you're either switching supplies for every voltage of each country or using transformers - not that practical for those on lower touring budgets that have to resolve this on their own without a road crew or tour manager.
As far as power supplies go, Maybe I could have made myself clearer. I’m not at all arguing the legitimate use of switch mode supplies, and their clear benefits in pedalboard applications. My comment was perhaps more intended for any curious readers wanting to know why they are becoming standard practice in this application. (“Cheap” switch mode supplies, in my book, are wall warts and similar, not the products mentioned in the video). As you say, it’s not about what’s best on an infinite spectrum, but most suitable for the application at hand. And in this particular case, a no brainer. // About buffers - not sure what you are referring to in terms of Ti specifications, but I’m curious as to how one of the most common standard op-amps for this very application allegedly is terrible and how you arrived at this conclusion. I’ve built loads of designs in the buffer/line driver realm with TL072 without any of the issues you describe. What annoys me about pedal manufacturers (and the boutique scene in particular) is the constant nag about color/transparency, and the inherit misdirection it presents. Most things generally appreciated are all but transparent, but that’s the whole point. The same way Hendrix’s long coiled cables played a crucial role in warming up a strat hitting cranked plexis, people opt for what sounds good, not what’s technically transparent. Passing any overdrive off as transparent is like describing beer as a clear liquid, but that’s a whole different discussion. My point being that saying “the klon buffer is not such a good buffer” is at best highly subjective. And that the TL072 chip is bad for buffers is just blatantly wrong. You might like the possibly slightly warmer sound of a FET or transistor based approach (like the Cornish buffer for example), even though it’s technically less transparent. That’s all good, but it’s still an opinion and not a fact.
@@benstolt I think you were clear on this, I was just solidifying that in practice with the gear in question - switch mode now supersedes what a linear supply can equal at the size and price point. I think we're in agreement on this. I reference the TI specs because it provides a baseline for the optimal conditions for the OPA. I mention 1K a one of the critical specs as the TL072 OPA isn't stable below that (by TI's own admission) and 1K is already a poor output Z for a buffer that's intended to drive any amount of capacitance on the output without any change in tone. Sure, a buffer could be made from a TL072, just not one that will accurately represent the sound of your guitar plugged into your amplifier with a 10ft. cable as the baseline "reference" when driving 10+ pedals, all the patch cable interconnections (presuming for now they're all in bypass and true bypass), circuitry inside the pedals from the I/O's to the footswtich, and a 20ft output cable bringing the pedalboard back to the amp input (a standard pedalboard). I'm not excluding the possibly that someone could decide to use a TL072 for a buffer, it would just be a the wrong part for the job if the goal is to be as colorless as possible. I think your point about the boutique pedal industry has merit. I would say where we diverge here is that typically these terms in aggregate are attributed to characteristics of "distortion" colors or lack there of. This conversation is not typically associated with buffers as so few companies actually make dedicated buffers, and even fewer make great ones (or even good ones). I also think there is a lot of "broad brush" painting of buffers - with the narrative reading something like "as long as you have a buffer you're fine" not differentiating for the quality or efficacy of the buffer itself. It would be like saying "you don't need a Klon as long as you have an overdrive" as though all overdrives are the same. It reads to me like where you're going at this from more of a taste profile ideology, i.e. "do I like the sound that Buffer X imparts?" Of course that is subjective - but not what I'm talking about here. In particular, I'm looking at what we can reasonably qualify as a high quality buffer based on the specifications and what we can test as amateur guitar players without much if any instrumentation. The baseline I talk about often here is putting your rig in a true bypass looper and brining it in/out so you can test how close your tone and dynamics are running through a pedalboard versus directly with a 10ft. cable into the amp for example. To me, that's the litmus test. I like the sound of my amp, I want as close to that sound as possible when running through my pedalboard, so my testing procedures and reference point reflects that. A TL072 versus a superior OPA for a buffer that's linear (BB2134 perhaps) will more more accurately represent what came in on the input even after a slew of pedals can cables. You may prefer a TL072 sonically, but it won't be as colorless as a more neutral OPA choice, and I would guess at that point that you prefer your amp with some additional color beyond what it produces normally if the TL072 is your preference. With the Hendrix example, this is a compensation - perhaps informed by preference but also potentially by limitations of the time and lack of people to properly modify his amplifiers to his liking so he's adding a bunch of capacitance after his pickups before hitting any pedals which were all pretty high Z. It's hard to say if he would've done it different had he made music for more than a handful of years before his untimely death. This set up wasn't unique to Hendrix, we see most guitar players of his genre and generation doing much of the same with long coil cables into multiple loud 100W amps, maybe a few pedals. Most of them that are still around have evolved out that set up decades ago for reasons we can mostly only speculate. The Klon buffer isn't a great buffer if you're measurement is how well it represents the input signal on the output when it's driving say a 50 foot cable with 40pf/ft. (Mogami 2524 type cable let's say) compared to a high quality buffer - like the Mesa Boogie High Wire for example. I've done these tests ad nauseam and it's no magic trick to see what these style buffers impart to the sound. Remember most pedal builders aren't rig builders, their not typically representing the conditions that most of their pedals will be used it with 5+ pedals preceding them, and 5+ pedals following them - all mixed impedances in/out, all different buffers from OPA, JFET, BJT, etc. Most pedal builders are optimizing for their own test conditions, typically in a vacuum, without much consideration of the above. I prefer OPA buffers over all else, they're generally the most neutral, but there is "more than one way to skin a cat" - but choosing the right part for the job is critical, and I'd never choose a TL072 for a buffer - again buffers shouldn't be an EQ, and most certainly not distortion generators which they become the more capacitance that is added on the output of a poorly designed buffer or a buffer insufficiently designed to be a high quality line driver. The Cornish buffer is BJT as I recall and does some unique stuff with the feedback loop to to get the input impedance up instead of going the Boss route of using a FET input so you can get that 1M input Z and then the BJT on the output for the lower output Z. I know many like Cornish's buffer, however it's not neutral by a mile and has a color of its own for sure. Some may like what it does to the signal, but it's not the same as the guitar into the amplifier with a lot of capacitance on the output. So again, by my standard of guitar into amp with a 10ft cable as the reference tone - the Cornish buffer doesn't resemble that sound when you but a pedalboard after it and lots of cable capacitance.
I hear you. I just don’t agree with you. No, TL072 won’t have stability issues in a buffer circuit with lower output impedance than 1k. Sure, op-amps in general can become unstable driving a capacitive load, commonly solved with a series resistor in the capacitor-resistor junction on the output. Still not sure what you base this argument on, it sure isn’t the data sheet. But you do you, I rest my case.
I can actually be both depending on usage, look up EMF on internet and use as applies to your field (no put intended). One of the issue with using acronyms is there is bound to be overlap. In Wikipedia (as one data point) for example, EMF as electromagnetic fields supersedes "electromotive force" by a few results. Again, in our field, this is the standard abbreviation and you'd find it fairly pervasive as a universally used term to mean electromagnetic fields.
Hey Mason very good video! Your comment on the myth of DC cables running next audio cables, the answer is it depends. Especially with switch mode power supplies. Often times the output stages are not properly filtered and they have switch mode frequency noise on the DC lines. Usually from a cost cutting measure by the manufacturer they leave out components like inductors capacitors and resistors designed to suppress that noise. Those inferior power supplies in that situation would not be a good power supply first off and two running audio lines next to those DC lines that are not filtered will induce noise on the audio lines. So I can understand why many builders don't trust DC power lines.
If you're using a DC power supply that's designed for audio, you won't have this issue and if you do, it's no related to the proximity of low voltage low current cables but the supply itself and the switching noise relative to what it's connected to.
@@VertexEffectsInc 100% agreed! I beta test for Caline Technologies in China. They have a new switchmode psu, and in my testing had to change out a load resistor value, but found the resistor/cap values that makeup the snubber network (components to filter out the switching frequency on the DC lines) were adequate. Its cool to learn about this stuff...including buffers! :-P
I think I’d rather just plug my guitar straight into a computer for effects than have such a strong opinion on the subject of solder. If you’re *so* worried about a few thousandths of a percent of signal loss per patch cable just get rid of all the cables and use an audio interface.
@@bassyey I mean damn just tweak the eq to compensate, which is something you were going to do anyway. If you perform live just buy the most reliable cables you can get and carry a few extra as spares. That microscopic bit of signal degradation isn't even in the top 100 things that'll impact how your guitar sounds in a crowded bar anyway. "HEY, HEY EVERYBODY OUT THERE, SHUT UP AND PUT YOUR DRINKS DOWN SO YOU CAN FULLY APPRECIATE THE TONE OF MY PATCH CABLES!!!!"
@@michaelw6277 Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Just solder/screw properly, and it'll be fine. And people can mess up both, big time. If anything, most people can't solder but can use screws.
I think the 18 volt thing started because there are a lot of (especially lower gain) overdrive and AIAB pedals that take 9-18 volts or anything in-between, and some sound a LOT better, with a lot more headroom and control in the sweep, at 18. The problem is, obviously, not every pedal is designed for this use LOL But everyone has the one guitar playing friend they know who's blown up multiple pedals doing this
A very well known American pedal company sells a buffer like pedal with 1 MΩ input impedance and 1 kΩ output impedance, and stating that, I quote: "Power This device takes a standard 9 volt DC power supply with a 2.1mm negative center barrel. We always recommend pedal-specific, transformer-isolated wall-wart power supplies or multiple isolated-output supplies. Pedals will make extra noise if there is ripple or unclean power. Switching-type power supplies, daisy chains and non-pedal specific power supplies do not filter dirty power as well and let through unwanted noise. DO NOT RUN AT HIGHER VOLTAGES!" It is really confusing for us, the consumers, to know who to trust. I was about to order this pedal, but right now, I 'm having second thoughts about it! Great video, for one more time Mason!! :)
Exactly! All this tech talk is totally confusing to a lot of us musicians, someone really needs to break it down for us if they want some steady customers.
1M input impedance, good. 1K output impedance, NOT good. Their warning about switch mode power supplies is because there are some poor wall wart varieties that will cause noise because they're poorly made and cheap. If you go with any of the supplies we're recommending they'll be superior to any linear supply out there.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks Mason, I 've got the truetone CS12, but after your impedance recommendation, I'd rather not risk it and look for an alternative. This was not good news, but probably saving me from trouble in the long run. Any Vertex dealers in Europe? ;)
Mason, I smiled when you said to consult the manufacturer to make sure 18V is ok, since I’ve discussed it with you in the comments and am loving the extra headroom
@@VertexEffectsInc can you describe this more ? I have a 18v earthquaker compressior , and I’ve had it with a 9v power supply this whole time. Now I’m nervous 😂😅
@@jessieplaysmusic8530 if it's rated for 18V, then it's fine. You can under power a pedal without damage, you just can't over power a pedal and not expect damage.
I like running two of my pedals at 18v , it's a factory option on them. The mxr stereo chorus I run at 18v, and my Ibanez Nu-tube screamer. The Nu-tube is gain stacked with a mxr Zakk Wylde overdrive. It gives it a little bit more headroom, more of a big open sound. Like you said it takes some compression out of the sound. I run them into two 50 watt tube amps. An old Carvin X50B with 4x12 cab and a Marshall jcm800 4010 combo. Loud and unique!
Less myth, more a buffer question Mason. When I split my drive pedals chain at a buffer (I have a Humdinger, but building one of your designs for my 'other' board) to my Dry amp (let's call that Out 'A') and the rest of my effects (let's call that Out 'B') before going on to Wet amp(s), those outputs A & B are *usually* marked 'buffered' and 'isolated', respectively. Often, the isolated output will also have a phase inverter (just swapping the hot and cold?) and will be marked as un-earthed, or have an earth-lift switch. I *imagine* it would be best to 'save' the phase-switchable output to go through my time based Wet effects, so that if they ended up out-of-phase at the Wet amp speakers, recorder inputs, etc, I could *just* flip it... and that would mean the drive pedals to Dry amp input is coming out of the *plain* buffered output. Are my assumptions correct, incorrect, or *it doesn't really mater*? Is isolated/phase-shiftable/earth-liftable Output B (typically) buffered like the plain Output A as well? Please :-)
Well you wet effects could invert just as easily as your dry effects could invert the polarity. Those switches are really to ensure that your amplifiers are in the proper polarity (phase is not really the right word although these two terms get collapsed). Typically the isolated output will sound worse...most transformers can't take a lot of signal output for this application and are prone to low-end distortion. If you're using it as a splitter it probably doesn't matter much which goes where. The polarity control is more to correct the amp polarity, not stuff in the pedals.
Some constructive criticism... This is one of your best videos so far. You have a bad tendency to drone on about obvious points and skip over obvious questions. I have found several of your videos to be frustrating in what they left out. However this video was excellent from beginning to end. I can say I actually learned quite a few things. You might want to consider adhering to this format more closely in the future. Good work!
@@VertexEffectsInc Hit me up at calcooper4@mailbox.org. I'll give you a couple of specific examples to help make your videos more focused. BTW, I'm and art director and editor by training, so I'm not just mouthing off. ; )
I have a compressor that I had connected to 18v and I got it to sound amazing in rehearsal, but when I took it on stage all of a sudden it sounded really squashed and over-compressing and I had no idea why. After watching this video I understand that the reason was that on stage I had it connected to 9v instead of 18v and just like you said, the compression threshold changed dramatically. Thanks for the eye-opener, excellent video 👌🏼
@@chopperdeath Yes…. I suppose if you weren’t an active musician and the pedalboard stayed stationary at home, it would take longer to have issues. But, what a pain in the middle of a gig.🤬
@@GtrPknMama Terrible! The George Ls do sound really great - bright and extremely clear. But too many connection issues over the years for me, so I’ve switched to soldering my own.
Buffers: thanks for being very specific about the target input and output impedance. It gives people something very clear to try (and compare with buffers that have different specs, if we wish) to see if we hear any difference.
I've had just as many problems with soldered cables as I have had with solderless cables. In fact, I've been using Lava Cable for a number of years now and if you put it together properly, you'll have little to no problems. But cables are simply a weak link in the chain. If you're dragging your pedalboard to gigs and rehearsals a lot, there's just a chance that a cable will fail and the weakest point will be where the plug attaches to the cable. But that also applies to soldered cables. The only brand I've had excessive problems with is George L. And I also think that's the brand that gave solderless cables a bad name. Once I switched to Lava Cable, I actually had almost no problems anymore. Difficult to put together. But if it's done right, it's just as strong as a soldered cable. Guaranteed. People should not immediately write something off on a single experience. That is also very inherent to the guitarist world. This is how myths arise and happen again here. Too bad a professional does it. But I've already seen a number of professionals doing it.
Said it yourself: If put together properly, solderless cables work without issue, I've been using George L cables for 20 (+/-) years and have never experienced a failure, Anyone who does is simply assembling their cables incorrectly.
You underestimate the power of humidity. Corrosion will eventually get to your solderless cables’ connections. If you’re touring festivals, playing outdoors in humid environments, or just have bad climate control where your board is stored, using solderless connections is an unnecessary risk to take. Your anecdote should not be taken as fact. You may experience “almost no problems anymore”, but that doesn’t mean your solution is just as good. People don’t want to feel dumb about their purchases. I understand the urge to justify the way you spent your hard-earned money. I don’t think you’re stupid for buying a product that works for you, and is simpler to put together than the alternative. But if you’re a musician traveling for work and performing in different environments every night, especially outdoors, you could save yourself a headache by using more reliable techniques.
@@steffengotsch The chance of corrosion is neither smaller nor greater with a solderless connection. A bad solder joint causes the same problems as a poorly assembled solderless patch cable. I have performed on many different stages in the past and it has also happened that drinks spilled over a pedal. The pedal eventually started giving me problems but I've never had any problems with a solderless patch cable. At least, not with Lava Cable. There are also plenty of professionals who fill their pedalboard with solderless patch cables. They would never do that if it would cause a lot of problems. It is also much easier to repair a patch cable. Try that with a soldered patch cable and plug. The guy from GigRig also uses Lava Cable as far as I know. Sorry to say, but the arguments against solderless cables are a lot of hear-say and parroting. Even professionals parrot each other without any real experience with solderless patch cables. I have not yet heard one argument that has convinced me. But the experience with solderless patch cables has shown the opposite so far. But I understand that I'm the one who doesn't want to feel stupid. I am fine with it.
I was suggested this video after watching you on sweetwater, where one of your "mistakes" people make is NOT separating DC and audio and doing perpendicular crossovers. You quite literally perpetuate this idea in one video then debunk it in another? Im lost.
Literally Tip#2 - granted he makes valid points about how its negligible with low voltage, and that AC vs DC power is more a concern... he still does claim that it has an affect on noise, and recommends you separate audio from dc cables and to go perpendicular if they must cross... as a "best practice" 🤷♂️ ua-cam.com/video/FwZoACLZx2g/v-deo.html
Are you sure there wasn't a distinction between AC and DC? Typically, the rule of thumb, when mixing audio signal with DC, is there no problem at all with the currents and low voltages of guitar pedals. However, sometimes I will separate them to make easier trouble shooting if I ever need to re-work the power or audio without having to undo an entire loom of cables. With AC however, this can be much trickier and if you're going to touch AC and audio cables it's best to do it at 90% or perpendicular to avoid any noise resulting from this intersection.
@@VertexEffectsInc truthfully your description in said video was a little lacking of direction and hard to discern between different thoughts, so perhaps you meant to make that distinction, as as I said in my above reply you did mention AC vs DC within it, but you very clearly stated that although low voltages arent a huge concern, you should always at least try and separate your audio from your current. Honestly I didnt see an issue with it, its good practice whether it matters or not - but watching this video felt as if you were saying exactly the opposite while also kind of snarking at people who do say you should care about DC and Audio lines. Just seemed a little odd and i was confused.
Good stuff on the 9 volt vs.18 volt debate. I’m glad to hear that it isn’t always “best” to run pedals at 18 just because they can be, which is what a LOT of people believe. It’s nice to know that there are some cases where it’s a good idea but some where it’s completely unnecessary.
A lot of this video comes across as the sales tactic of making you think what you have is inadequate and casting doubt on the quality of what is common. To be fair, I’m not accusing you of committing any type of fraud. The first two had the tone of “your connections are going to fail” and “your buffer is not good enough.” Your content is usually good. This just comes across a bit like a sales video.
I have the Voodoo Lab Power 2 attached to a Pedal Train board underneath. How would I shield it from the pedals that are over it? Or like you said don’t put any pedals on top of it. Or a sheet of led in between? Arrrrg . Can’t afford to change up now. Thanks for the info.
Luckily, that's the only supply they make that actually uses steel as the chassis and does provide some shielding. You may not be experiencing noise now...so you can test that and see. Also the EMF increases the more power you draw against the power supply...the more current drawn against the supply the larger the field. Mumetal or steel would be the ordinary way to do this, but it's not as easy as just throwing sheets of metal between the supply - you have to ID where the field is and try to encase it as much as possible.
As always, Great video for us novices. How can you tell if a power supply is Switch Mode or Linear ? I currently have a Rockboard ISO Powerblock V10 Isolated Power Supply.
An easy way to tell is if it's only designed for one input voltage, e.g. 120V only! or 220V only! Or they'll have a slider or rocker switch to switch the input voltages to match the country. That's usually a sign that it's linear. Switch mode supplies will take any wall voltage on the input.
As always great advice, I read everything in the manuals supplied with my pedals about voltage!! Although some1 started not giving the power cords w/the boxes anymore & it caught on! Not that it really matters, it depends on 1's rig but it's the point of it. Thanks!
I still don't understand how anyone can take that clown "The Tone King" seriously. Perfect example of "a guy" who pretends to be an expert, but he's an absolute embarrassment.
@@VertexEffectsInc Consider yourself lucky. If want an excuse to poke your eardrums out or light yourself on fire, just search for The Tone King here on YT. If you want a laugh while poking your eardrums out, watch him "perform" Detroit Rock City with Phil X in GuitCon video from a few years back.
@@ScottyBrockway No personal vendetta. TTK seems like a nice enough fellow. What I take issue with is his self-proclaimed expertise when all he is is a collector. He's a horrible player, he's horrible at dialing in tone, and plays the same things over and over and over again. And I brought him up only because Uncle Mason brought up people the difference between people who are knowledgeable and those who are "just a guy" and fundamentally not skilled and the latter is TTK.
This may have been an informative video, but these constant "Pop"-sounds were so incredibly annoying that I had to stop watching after 7 minutes. Unbearable.
2 questions, can you add Bufferin to your board to solve buffering problems, and are current power supplies better than old timey power supplies because they are more current?
Any pedal that's "ON" is a buffer. True bypass or not. The quality of buffers varies greatly. I recommend you put a buffer on the input of your system (first) and an output buffer at the end (last). If you want to use a boost you can do that too, but I wouldn't rely on it as a buffer.
I've heard that if you spend over $10,000 on your pedal board (s), you'll immediately gain rock star status and you'll find a Lambo in your driveway the next morning with a bimbo in the passenger seat ready for a road trip....
AC digital voltmeter. A scope would work, FFT analyzer, even a 1/3 octave display as they all show levels. The Voltmeter would give you a value readings, so that is best. But putting the rig in a true bypass looper and bringing it in/out is also a great test that you can do with stuff you might already have.
Your claim about solderless cables has a significant, misleading issue in your video. Full disclosure...I have one board with Lava Cable Tightrope/Solderless ends (22 cables) and one board with soldered Mogami/HOSA pancake connectors (16 cables) which I have made. There are going to faulty connections with both when you are new to putting them together. After I found out how to do both correctly I have not had a bad connection in years...and I am not a road musician but one that plays gigs 35-45 times year and have not had a problem with either pedalboard. I did have more connection issues/mistakes with the solderless ends in the beginning but was able to improve my assembly technique and have avoided these problems. You're opinions on solderless are potentially good ones but when you are saying things like, "You almost see zero of the rig building professional community using solderless cables...", you should actually say who and their words instead of showing shots of named individuals in the industry. They are not saying they agree with you in your video. You mention that you like to see proof but you speak without it when you make a claim like this. Plus, that strength test was ridiculous. 25 lbs. is a great strength level for a patch cable. And let's be honest here, one of the most popular gear UA-cam channels in That Pedal Show and Dan Steinhardt are very comfortable in using solderless for world-class professional pedalboards. He has clamed that he has not had one come apart on a professionally made, significantly road-used board...but this is only be one professional example. I am not trying to prove you wrong but do think you are being misleading. I like both...I don't need one over the other as I like soldering cables but the solderless are great ,too. I don't normally comment on UA-cam videos but I don't like seeing claims being made with misleading evidence and even more so when it seems you are trying to insinuate that popular gear companies are on your opinion's 'side' without actually validating it. I like your channel and some of the DIY tips you've shared. This whole comment is really a suggestion that you do a better job of backing up your claims as you have made this one frequently.
Aaron, that video exists, several in fact where I read statements from (some directly to me or from interviews) or do actual interviews with the top rig building professionals. Guys like Robert Bradshaw, Pete Cornish, Paul Rivera, John Suhr, Dave Friedman, Steen Skrydstrup, Paul Lenders. If that's not the canonized list of the best rig builders in the world, I don't know who else should be there. They do say in their statements that they don't use nor recommend solderless cables. The proof of solderless cables not being a gas tight connection is inherent in the connection itself. We're not using cold welding crimps to create a solderless bond in our industry using $5,000 crimping tools that require a calibration every 500 crimps. We're using a set screw that 1/10 the diameter of the center conductor or a threaded connector that taps soft metal (copper) to create a connection while the shield floats and the entire return path is exposed. The proof is in plain site - how can a floated shield be gas tight? It's as if there is a disconnect between physical science and our preference to use one cable over another. 25 pounds is great if the cable is sedentary, but do you know how much inertia is generated by the human leg at normal walking speed with a 160 lbs man at a normal pace? Way more than 25 lbs. I like Daniel, and I think he and Mick do a huge service to guitarists everywhere. That can be true, and he can be wrong about solderless cables. He's actually chimed in comments sections in some videos and said that he agrees that a soldered connection is superior but has found solderless to work for his applications. Very well...but that makes him the exception, not the rule. Finding one guy out of 8 that use solderless that are known rig builders isn't a great testimony for solderless being the professional standard. It's not. I think if you do a little research (or just watch some of our older videos) you'll see that what I'm stating isn't being pulled out of thin air. The facts regarding gas tight connections, the efficacy of solderless connections, and that anyone purporting to use solderless as a pro rig builder is an outlier - with virtually no agreement among the rig building community among legacy builders that pre-exist me or Daniel.
@@VertexEffectsInc I appreciate the response. My point wasn't that solderless cables are better than soldered which seams to be the theme of your comment. My point was that you did a poor job or trying to relay proof abut your claim. Viewers shouldn't need to do their own when the maker of said video makes a claim. I don't know if the gentlemen you mentioned agree with you but I don't believe they do simply from this video. Provide proof for viewers in the moment of the comment if you are as vocal and repetitious about your opinion. Be the dagger in the heart of solderless cables if that's your aim...but do it effectively. And if a pedalboard is in some situation where you put 25lbs of pressure on a connector then, yeah, use soldered simply for that issue. I don't think that's a good enough reason to only use soldered cables as it seems to be relating to an unusual situation. I am not in Radiohead playing 2-300 shows a tour all over the world. Most of the people watching your videos are probably not touring musicians and have fun with their gear at home or playing out a bit. Again, I am not saying one type is better than the other in this comment but after learning how to assemble the solderless cables properly I have not had a failure in the 2-3 years I've used them on a board which was been used for close to 100 gigs with all the loading and unloading of gear, beer spills (not too many), stomps, kicks, etc...However, in my heart I feel soldered is probably a superior connection but that's not because of your video but rather through common sense. I'm not trying to be a dick here but I work in science and if I tried to support a claim they way your video did I would be ripped apart by my collogues.
One thing I can’t agree with is linear verse switchmode. I haven’t come across a smps which has lower noise floor than a linear supply. I make my own linear supply’s and recently I made an isolated 8 output using a Weber transformer. I have smashed the lowest noise floor. I have also learnt to keep anything with an oscillator or processor to dedicated dc output. So if you have a large pedal board you can often have gain pedals sharing a dc output, but I try and keep modulation on its own dc output. I did a comparison with my Zuma power supply and my own and the linear was heaps quieter. That my take!
I've gotten Jack Black, Geraldo Rivera, and now Chris Farley in the same video...what are the chances. Well...unlike a used car salesman, I'm not selling anything - nothing that I manufacture, rather giving you the best information that I can that's vetted and fact checked for accuracy. You're welcome to do the opposite of what I recommend and see how it goes if you want to do some experimenting on your own.
holy schnikes I have two power supplies- a Zuma and an MXR ISO brick m238. I have resigned myself to the fact that I will probably never get rid of some of the noise my rig creates but now you got me thinking that linear power supply might be the culprit. I don't have any petals on top of it but it is surrounded by other petals. Thank you for the tip
The Zuma is a Switch Mode, so is the MXR...if you have noise, it's not likely from there. Could be cables, could be pedals. Watch our noise trouble shooting video for more on this!
Question revolving around buffers--if there is a pedal at the end of my board (tc electronics HOF II mini) that is on all the tiome, does that count as a buffer? It is true bypass, but I basically leave it on with a plate reverb setting....
In the intro B roll footage is an "In/Out Buffer Test Box" that I don't see mentioned further in the video, or listed in the description. A quick search online didn't yield anything. Is there any info on what this exactly tests, and where it's available?
If I am using a Boss ES8, would I turn off all initial buffers in the unit, and use a Mesa Buffer for I/O buffering?? Also I’m using fuzzes and I’ve heard that they are not compatible with buffers? With a system like the Boss ES8 would it be more ideal to just use an output buffer??
My favourite pedals are expensive, but I don’t expect them to sound several times better than the clones or cheap pedals. In a mix, it’s all gonna sound the same. But being the one playing is different from listening. I just like how they sound when I’m playing. And how tweakable they to my core sound.
Do you need an input and output buffer if you’re only using 3 or 4 pedals? My last pedal before the amp is a delay pedal with a quality buffer. I’m assuming it wouldn’t make much difference in my case but am still curious about it. Thanks
If you have a pedalboard myth that we didn't cover in this video, let us know in the comments below!
One I hear a lot is starving pedals of power causes damage. Little do they know many pedals, such as fuzz, can sound even better when starving the power by a hair to get the dying battery effect.
@@cheesy6516 under powering shouldn't be an issue, it's over powering them that is. Restricting voltage will sound different, you can watch our Battery Power Supply demo to get a sound reference for that.
So, I hear that you need an input and output buffer but, I've also heard that all pedals are buffers when you turn them on. If my Bass Compressor has an input impedance of 1Mohm and an output of 600ohm, is that a sufficient input buffer or would you still recommend sandwiching the board?
@@isaacramirez3729 yes, but just like all buffers, there are good and bad ones. A pedal on is a buffer, but the buffer could, and likely does suck. If your bass compressor is always on and is 1M, that will work for the input buffer, but you'd still want an output buffer. If you got a higher quality dual buffer it also wouldn't hurt anything.
"Every pedal board needs 2 buffers." True or false?
My number 1 rule for my pedalboard setup: if I like the way it sounds, then we're good to go.
that's a good overarching rule
I couldn’t agree more Loren! I will say though, listening to Mason and other pro builders and going to soldered sp400s with Mogami 2314 totally improved my tone. I went from blackbird solderless and man o man the clarity of the Mogami
@@stevensrp2music985 heck yea!!!
I got a new job and more money = upgrading gear! I was debating on compressors, but my standard dynacomp is perfect for me. No fuss, just shut up and play your guitar. Don’t fix what’s not broken 😎
@@trav1th3rabb1 heck yeah!
I am an electronics engineer that is new to guitars and guitar gear. I must say the amount of myths ans false information when taking about guitar gear really blew me away. alot of it is perpetuated by manufactures so the can sell you over spec'd gear so you end up spending a lot more money than you really need to. This channel is spot on though with its advice being the best I have found on youtube. keep up the good work
And Woodstock was ruined when it was discovered Hendrix didn't use true bypass pedals.
:-))))))))))))
He also really didn't have any TRUE buffers on there either.
@@VertexEffectsInc And Santana got a killer sound out of a solid state amp at Woodstock! Hahaha, this is supposed to be impossible!!!
@@TeleCaster66 I'm not sure where anything that I've said disqualifies this.
@@VertexEffectsInc I agree, I have a solid state amp I love, just saying what many people believe.
Doesn't matter if you like the guy or not, there is no denial that this is just good information given freely by a knowledgeable person. Thanks a lot for this.
Also, one question: does 18v increase the noise floor on overdrives/eqs also? I always heard people say the opposite: 18v increases headroom and lowers the noise floor.
I have 3 pedals that take 18v (Cmats Signa Drive, Cmats Ratified and Wampler Equator), and I always run them at 18v "just because". I read everywhere on the internet that these Cmats pedals at 18v sound better, have more headroom, are more dynamic and with better note separation. Aside from the headroom, do you think that there is any grounds to claim that pedals become "clearer" and with better "note definition" at 18v? To be really honest I can't say I noticed any difference ever.
Also, regarding the Equator, Wampler claims it is designed to "sound best" in 9v, but I just can't see how this could be true. I also run it at 18v "just because". Herd behavior is real...
Hope you enjoy the video. 18V typically increases the noise floor. Headroom also goes up. You may run them in conditions where you don't need the headroom to get the sound you want. There is no reason to run it at 18 if you don't have to or you aren't getting a more desirable tone if the pedal can still operate on 9V based on its design.
Great info on myth 5. I was wondering why my Hudson Broadcast didn’t quite do it for me at 18v, but was amazing at 9v. Thank you!
It's nice to try it if the pedal can accept it, but isn't always "better"
I have no idea if this is why, but it’s my best guess:
Less voltage means a less clean sound. The best example of this would be 70’s guitarists purposely using dying batteries in their fuzz pedals
Mason, you hit so many targets here that on my sofa, I had to just pause and start writing you a message: right on Mason! on buffers and so many points, nothing but underlining and confirming as to what you said is so true. I could time stampt 10 points that you just gave away to the public, in one word: good job! Hello from Finland
thank you so much for watching!!!!
A local player approached me several years back to redo his board cause he had suffered a cable connection failure during a live performance in front of 25,000 people at the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver , Canada . His board now contains Mogami cable , Neutrik jacks an plugs , and lots of Solder !!
Great Segment Mason !!!
Glad you dug it!
Thank you so much for your time. Investment in a good "brick"... Always awesome. I hate background electric noise.
Appreciate your passion and perspective Mason. #1 Of course, all connections are not made equally; people’s experiences and requirements are also not the same. I was doing 3 to 6 month international tours pre-covid (where I’m my own tech too - reality for majority of working musicians), I’ve had more failures with soldered instrument cables than with my Free The Tone solderless patch cables. Mackie cable tester reading is the same if the cable is good. Regular maintenance is required either way.
#2 Run my “input” buffer after fuzz, octave, boost and OD, like a “normal” person. 😉
#3-#5 TOTALLY agree with you! 🤓
There can be individual experiences but both being made equally well with the same wire, soldered will always prevail and prevail over time as the connections will not oxidize.
The power supply info was a great help!
I'm so glad!
Been watching for a while now. You really make me rethink what i was planning each time and end up coming out with something better! Got my courage to start modding my pedals. Keep at it!
Glad to hear it!
B+ running cables together it's the only one I got wrong. I figured out the 18v with an sp comp . Moving the goal post is a good analogy. More noise because I had to dime it to get it to compress to my liking.
Glad you found it useful!
I found out 18V wasn’t always optimal with the exact same pedal, funny enough. The manual tells you to try it at 18V, but I couldn’t get rid of a certain low, but very present hum until I set it back to 9V then it worked as it should.
@@atonofspiders of all the pedals I have that can use 18 none actually sound better. More headroom is usually the opposite of what i want especially with comp.
dude you ARE the very best, no one comes close to what you are providing us
Thanks for watching!
Use dielectric grease for solderless connectors to keep them clear of corrosion.
Just got hooked on your channel. Don't know how we've been missing it! Catching up on your old videos ✌Really love your in depth explanations
Welcome aboard!
Thx mason
There’s some hate around you
I was hesitant at first
But I dig your work and love your pedals
You clearly have passion and dedication to this
I’m a lifer in music make it or break it I’m having a blast
Thx man
Bout to build my first pro pedal board 🙏🙏🙏
Have fun with your rig! Thanks for the support and see you around!!!
Really good sensible description and advice… you merit the name of rig doctor sir.
Do you still recommend a buffer first if using fuzz pedal first in chain?
Depends on the fuzz, but generally buffer after fuzz.
What about overdrive? Buffer before or after?
Hi, touring musician here.... After #1 I gave up, stagger your input and output jacks and maybe I can start using soldered cables again.... but I can’t tell you how many 6in patch cables I smoked having to twist them to get them to work where I wanted my pedals to be. I changed over to George L’s Solderless cables years and years ago and never been happier. I run A/B stereo style pedal 5 pedals split into two other boards with 5 pedals each running to separate amps 15 pedals total so I went from running 7 extra feet for 6in patch cables to just under 20 inches of cable and it had a HUGE effect on my tone.
I guess you're presuming in all this that the patch cable quality was good when you were using soldered, and my guess is that it wasn't high quality. Most quality patch cables, ours included, have lifetime warranties and can be made to any length you want from 3" to 42" so you can order whatever you want and most companies are doing that now. When's the last time you saw a lifetime warranty on a solderless cable - I sure haven't.
Would love a video comparing different buffer input/output impedances. Don't know how entertaining it would be, but something like the cable test video with expert opinions on how the buffers affect the overall tone.
good call!
Awesome Episode Mason, really informative, I always learn something cool from your vids!! Stay Groovy man!! (maybe explore myths concerning the use and order of Fuzz and Wah)
Great suggestion!
The reason why running DC power cables next to audio cables is ok while doing the same with AC will cause noise is because DC cables produce a steady magnetic field while AC doesn't. The magnetic field produced by a cable is proportional to the current flow and changes directions when the flow changes direction such as when AC oscillates. Noise is caused by the magnetic field inducing a current in another wire (your audio cable) that is inside the field, but current is only induced if the magnetic field is changing. DC field doesn't really change, but AC oscillates at 60Hz (or 50Hz depending on your grid), so DC will not induce noise into your other cables, but AC will.
Correct!
True except if your DC supply goes out of regulation and induces a ripple on the output. You'll get a lower magnitude AC ripple that could be induced on any nearby audio cable. But a good supply should maintain regulation up to the maximum current.
Great stuff! I look forward to seeing more videos like this. Knowledge is power especially as a musician when you have to work on your own rigs lol 😁🙏🏾thank you Mason! Appreciate you man!
so glad you dig it!
I've read a bunch of descriptions for power supplies online, none of them mentions switch or linear. All of them claim to be 'isolated' and 'noise free'. From a £20 to £250. How am I going to find this out prior to purchase if manufacturers do not include this information? Or am I let to go though countless forums looking for the information? It shouldn't be that difficult to state this in the product description.
There will be clues in the description. Looking on Sweetwater at the CS12 and Zuma, for example, you see switch-mode, switchable, and worldwide in the description. The Voodoo specifically says in its description that it has a toroidal transformer.
Appreciate the time you take to make a bunch of videos to educate people on this stuff. I myself am planning on building my own pedal board, wouldn’t have the confidence to do so without you keep up the good work👍🏻
Thanks so much for the support! Glad it's helping!
Why am I just learning about the difference between linear and switch power supplies? After decades I finally run into this. 🧐
They weren't that pervasive in guitar stuff until recently.
Thanks for the debunk on Dc cables vs audio. I had read that and I remember looking over at my gear and thinking "if that's true, I should have all kinds of noise?" It stuck in the back of my brain and the next time I was setting up a board I was trying to keep the 2 separate. I kinda gave up on the idea. Imagine if it were true! We'd have to set things up quite differently.
Glad it was helpful!
I have some early 1980s DOD pedals that use 1/8 in plugs I have a old DOD power supply but it is not isolated What can I use Will it make too much noise if I use the DOD and use Boss psa120 for my other Boss pedals thanks
You can buy 1/8" cables from Voodoo Lab to use with any normal power supply. The 1/8" is just a different barrel size, it won't change the noise floor using a supply with a 2.1mm barrel size. You'll just need an adaptor or a new cable to go to your power supply.
Thanks for all your advice the difference between my old and new boards since I started following you is night and day in terms of noise and reliability.
amazing! I'm so glad!
Possible downsides of switching mode power supplies is "beat tones", particularly with pedals that use charge pumps. Another problem with them is when they fail, it's often catastrophic and can run wall voltage down to your pedals as they generally don't have any protections for that. Each power supply design has it's plusses and minuses. Electromagnetic shielding is easy to add to linear supplies in the form a faraday cage, older power supplies often have this built in to the form factor they are encased in.
This would be a problem with the design of a particular switch mode supply or the design of the pedal using a charge pump - not something inherent in either. Yes charge pumps (or any pedal with high frequency) can cause this kind of problem. This is because it is a poor design. When a high frequency that is “above” audible is in the output of one pedal and the second pedal also has a high frequency with the audio (from any high frequency circuitry - in this case the high frequency oscillator for the delay device) both frequencies create a sub harmonic that is in the audible range and it will change depending on the chorus or delay setting (high frequency oscillator) so the noise will change with setting. This stuff happens when the circuitry is poorly designed, corners are cut, or the engineer does not understand enough electronics. The very old devices were built as cheap as possible with no thought of other pedals in the chain and the devices they had to work with (let alone affordable) were pretty bad back then. I am surprised this does not show up a lot. It really should be a big problem often based on most of the designs I have seen. Most people are just lucky, we should be seeing a lot more of this problem in reality.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah we should see it more, I've seen it a few times, it's very annoying and hard to track down sometimes as it can be an interaction between two pedals and the supply. Some inexpensive effects (I won't name names) still can have this problem. The power supplies should filter out that high freq noise too (again not naming names).
@@ScottyBrockway I"m with you!
@@ScottyBrockway This is the point I raised in my post!
Exceptional video, appreciate the time taken to create it and for sharing your expertise.
Thank you so much for watching!
Okay Uncle mason - my big question - what is a good buffer? What do you recommend, and why?
see our description, our recommended products are posted in every video :)
Jhs little black buffer i use the two output one
Dude, I learned a ton in this video, especially number 3. I think I found out where that hum is coming from now...thank you!
🙏🙏🙏
Awesome info, sir. SOOO many myths in the guitar world and I like facts. 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for this video. It confirms many items that I learned in college back in 1988. Especially the running signal with DC and keeping AC perpendicular to the DC wiring. The perpendicular part I was also doing while I was wiring controls panel at my job during those college years.
I’m confused: when you were talking about linear power supplies causing interference and explaining that you mount them up top away from pedals you show a shot of the the True Tone supply - but earlier you classify those power supplies as Switching types (which wouldn’t cause interference). Can you clarify?
I think it was just showing a power supply in the video...our editors aren't technical and I didn't catch the discrepancy. The Truetone is switch mode to be clear.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks so much for the clarification! Gonna mount a switching type under my pedal train now with no doubts! 🙏🏼
Thanks for asking this question because I was wondering the exact same thing. 🤷♂️
Excellent show/presentation, Mason! You’re a great teacher and superb presenter 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
I like the idea of debunking myths but YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG about Switch mode and Linear power supplies. Switch mode supplies are fundamentally noisier than linear power supplies because they are switching during the regulation process at frequencies between 100Khz-1MHz. This switching noise, its harmonics and subharmonics, can be reduced but it is costly to add the supression components. Linear supplies do not switch their input voltage to regulate their output, thus they do not generate switching noise. Additionally if they have a gapless toroidal transformer a linear supply will generate less field than a cut core transformer. Simple circuit layout and a metal box will be sufficient to shield the 60Hz field noise of a linear supply transformer. With the high frequencies generated in a switching supply the enclosure needs to be continuous at the seams and the ac input and dc outputs need supression at the switching frequencies. So why are switching supplies popular? COST and efficiency, In consumer electronics price of manufacture and sale is most important to maximize profit.
That being said I DO AGREE that solderless cables are much less desirable than soldered so i do appreciate your info on those.
I'm sure you're right but after watching this, I replaced my voodoo labs power supply with the Strymon Zuma and my noisy cramped pedal board became quiet
Donald, if you're looking at two supplies in our field - guitar based products and accessories - that have equal number of outputs, voltage ranges, and current output that are the best examples in their respective classes of switch mode and linear, then the linear will NOT be superior, in particular, if you're looking at what shows up in the audio range. I think many critics here of switch mode supplies are taking poor examples of these style supplies and putting them up against a gold standard linear powers supply - that's an easy straw man to knock down. If you put a Strymon Zuma ($249.99) against a Pedal Power Mondo ($279.99) it's pretty easy to see why you'd want to go with a switch mode supply practically. The Zuma less than one-third of the size, has more voltage options, more current per output, can work in any country in the world, and can be placed anywhere on the pedalboard without consequence of noise or risk of the magnetic field interfering with your pedals with ZERO noise in the audio range from the supply. The Mondo, by contrast, has no consequential electromagnetic shielding - fully aluminum chassis (which most linear supplies have that are putting out as much current and voltage options as the Mondo because they use the chassis as a heatsink). As a result, this supply causes noise if you get your pedals too close to it (or even your patch leads), or dare I say, put it under your pedalboard like most DIY folks do on a Pedaltrain or similar style board. You've put your pedals in the path of the magnetic field and the more current you draw against the supply the more intensified the field becomes. Now you can place the Mondo on a board in a way where it's going to be objectively equal in performance to the Zuma without any noise risk in an equal environmental condition. However, it will command more space, a larger pedalboard if you're using the same number of effects on a rig as you would with a Zuma as your PSU. Your routing and pedal placement will also have to consider the magnetic field - again needing more space on the board to distance the supply from the pedals. Coming full circle to the practicality stand point, I don't see how this is advantageous to someone building a rig in 2021 with a choice between these two supplies all things being equal. The biggest thing that I think you're discounting here about linear supplies (along with some other critics here in the comments section) is you underestimate the magnetic field leakage and the fact that most of these linear supplies aren't actually toroidal transformers even though they say they are, and as a result don't have the same benefits. A true toroid has to have these qualities: a round, not oval, magnetic core and even that isn't enough. It has to have equal winds fully (360 degrees) around this magnetic core or it "leaks" magnetic field. Also, any hold down material down the center can cause spurious leakage. If the center hold down bolt is magnetic material, it has to be perfectly centered or will cause issues. Non-magnetic stainless steel (not all stainless steel is non-magnetic by the way, there are many different stainless steel grades) - even then, a toroid leaks, it just does so in a controlled manner and at a low level on axis of the hole where a steel chassis or steel can control it. The advantage is the horizontal magnetic filed is null, so sensitive electronics on that plane will not see any magnetic field. I have seen it done wrong with some major manufacturers power supplies that actually defeats the expensive toroid altogether.
You have a wealth of knowledge, and experience and you are a star for sharing it, and not jealously guarding it. Polite observation: you need an editor for your videos - someone who is harsh and cuts down the footage.
Thanks for watching. This was edited by an editor, not me.
@@VertexEffectsInc your editor likes you!
Biggest myth - something sounds "better" - people always want easy answers.
It's always a tough gig making blanket statements... There is more background knowledge in your head informing your opinion than you can reasonably explain in a few minutes. There's often a kernel of "It depends..." in these answers somewhere.
On the linear vs. switch mode power supply question: I've seen examples of (admittedly "poor") switch mode power supplies that emit high-frequency hash that some pedals can pick up as noise with some "whistles". I've also recently been through a design exercise and made myself a very efficient linear supply (with multiple types of interference suppression) that measures to have lower losses and better power factor than many of the switchers claim to have. But I've also designed it specifically for the way I use things and it isn't as flexible as an SMPS. Anyway, my point is that a "well designed" linear power supply can be quieter and more efficient than a "not so well designed" SMPS. Yes, you need to take care with locating it so that the magnetic field doesn't interfere with your pedals (the only thing I've had a little trouble with is a Dunlop Crybay...), but one should also take similar care checking out an SMPS. Your point is well made as a "general" comment, but I don't think it's quite as black-and white as it came across. YMMV.
It's probably similar with buffers: As you say, they aren't all equal. I think that with most things about our rigs, we need to find what works for us. Unless there is a glaring problem, it is sometimes difficult to be objective and decide that I made a bad choice and should change something. And maybe I'm being overly defensive of my linear power supply because I invested so much time into it...
I don't think anything in here that I say is disqualified by what's stated in the video. With respect to the power supplies, taking two equally equipped supplies, both well made to the industry standard, one linear - one switching. The switching is going to be as quiet, more efficient, lighter, work anywhere in the world (unless the linear supply has a multi-tap transformer for offsets for each country), will provide more power and current to a cost equivalent linear supply. Furthermore you're not going to have any risk of noise depending on where it sits in relation to your pedals or interacting with say your wah inductor. It is the magnetic field leakage that most people don't understand as the critical factor between linear and switch mode power supplies in the context of a pedalboards. There are a lot of power supplies claiming to have toroids, but they are not really. A true toroid has a round, not oval, magnetic core and even that's not nearly enough. It has to have equal winds fully 360 degree around this magnetic core or it leaks magnetic field. Also any hold down material down the center can cause spurious leakage. If the center hold down bolt is magnetic material, it has to be perfectly centered or will cause issues. Non-magnetic stainless steel (not al stainless steel is non-magnetic by the way, there are many different stainless steel grades) and even then, a Toroid leaks, it just does so in a controlled manner and at a low level on axis of the hole where a steel chassis or steel can control it.
With buffers, there is a standard for neutral. A buffer shouldn't add color by definition and the litmus test for a good one should be guitar plugged into amp with a 10ft cable of your choice as the reference. You won't be able to get a pedalboard with 30 ft. of cable, 10 pedals, and a mix of true bypass and buffered pedals to get the same tone as a 10ft cable unless you're willing to adhere to certain buffering guidelines and qualities, and even then you might not fully get back to the "neutral" reference. The 1M input impedance and 100 ohm output impedance is a good general starting point. Most buffers are way higher on the output Z especially - 1K is typical. In practice 1K won't do very well with any amount of capacitance on the output and the more it has to drive the more unstable it becomes. You may like this sound - but it's not a buffer. Buffers aren't distortion generators.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you for responding and the additional info!
Thank you very much Mason! Your knowledge and experience are appreciated! 🙏
thank you for watching!
I tightened every input/output and replaced all of my patch cables when I was still getting hum after getting a VooDoo Mondo. Now I know why it was happening. Thanks, Rig Doctor!
it's still workable you might just have to isolate it in one corner of the board so that pedals are out of the way of the magnetic field
@@VertexEffectsInc That explains why it also went away. Moved my looper pedal to the other side so I can control it with my right foot (better foot-eye coordination with that right foot). Still sad to see that I'm going to lose some pedalboard real estate until I upgrade the power supply.
Bro.... your knowledge on buffers is RIDICULOUS !!! Thank you 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Jessie...thanks. I would say I'm pretty average, just most pedal guys don't understand it at all so it makes it hard to get the facts right. I'm low man on the totem pole compared to some of these rock start engineers out there, however most of them are averse to UA-cam so you're stuck with me for now ;)
Had a boutique builder recently put a manifesto in their product manual about how terrible all switching power supplies are and that their products can ONLY use a transformer-based linear supply.
It was a strange thing because I’ve been so used to hearing everyone complain about noise from the magnetic fields on older linear power bricks, but they had this narrative that “switch-mode power may be fine to charge your cell phone, but they are cheaply manufactured and can introduce noise on effect pedals”.
A cheap switch mode supply can be bad and problematic, but there are some great ones, and some of the bad ones often reveal issues with pedals that are oversights in the engineering. I don't know who it is that you're talking about, but I think he's making a generality based on a bad switch mode supply and not the quality ones like the Cioks, Strymon, and some of the newer Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 3 varieties.
Correctly engineered switching power supplies are a beautiful thing. One thing I have noticed is many of those trashing switching power supplies trash Class D amps. I demoed a Quilter Tone Block and it blew me away. I'm buying one plus a 4ohm speaker cabinet with 2 12 inch greenbacks
@@circuitsandcigars1278 heck yea!!!
DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT messing with voltage (idiocy).
Manufacturers specifications are printed for very good reasons.
Increasing voltage is NOT something to be encouraged in any circumstance.
Great video. The only thing I can’t agree with is regarding buffers - TL072 make excellent buffers in the right configuration. Anything else is silly mojo talk.
Also - the power supply myth need some clarification: a linear power supply will feed cleaner DC (if it’s filtered properly). However in recent years, higher end switch-mode PSU’s have become good enough that the difference in result for our application is negligible, thus favorable for size, cost, variable input voltage and lastly lower interference, as mentioned in the video.
With that said, a toroidal transformer will have most of it’s magnetic field on the inside of the coil, meaning that it’s usually safe to put a pedal next to it. In many conditions it’s perfectly fine to put things on top too, depending on type of pedal (a pedal which internal amplification, i.e overdrive/distortion is generally undesirable, while e.g a tuner most often works just fine).
Conclusion: I’d rather have a quality linear PSU (with a toroidal transformer) than a cheap switch-mode one, whereas the pros of a quality switch-mode PSU usually outweighs the cons (potential high frequency noise) nowadays.
Ps. A switch-mode PSU also has a transformer, just a different type and in a different configuration (and purpose). 😉
TL072 can be used to make a buffer, sure - just not a neutral one. Even TI will tell you they can't run a TL0 below 1K without issues. I see guys trying to run TL072 close to zero, but still will not be able to drive long lines - TL0 series has very poor current output and has stability problems driving output capacitance. Again, TI states that normal use is at least 1000 ohms (1K) series output to keep stable under. Also, the input biasing is very poor. You're going to get color, distortion, etc. with a TL0 and that's not what you want for a buffer. Buffers aren't and shouldn't be distortion generators.
In our field, with the quality of switch mode power supplies, and the size of them, there is no reason to use a linear supply any longer. The question is not which is better on an infinite spectrum, but rather what's the best solution given our application and what's actually available (there really aren't any REAL true "toroid" supplies out there for the most part - or very few). Remember, our field has few, if any, standards, pedals are spec'd and the maker's discretion. A real "wild west". Designing products like a power supply is all about engineering compromises, and I think most notably, the litmus test is "what's in the audio range". If you can filter accordingly so any noise is well about what the human ear can detect that you're pretty safe and they've been using this for years on the Pro Audio side even though we're just adopting it now in guitar pedals and accessories. I think the false premise here is about the presumption of application and use on a pedalboard and the quality of a high end linear supply in other industries as being equal in the pedal industry. In our field, with our application for pedals there are far more issues with linear supplies than with switch mode supplies of equal quality. Namely because, 1) getting a linear supply to produce the same voltage options and current options as switch mode for today's pedals - you're looking at a supply twice as big and twice as heavy (at least) than its switch mode equivalent. 2) most of the larger supplies that can get close to what the higher end switch mode supplies provide (in terms of V and mA) are aluminum so they can use the chassis as a heat sink - this means no more electromagnetic shielding. Magnetic leakage is now an issue and you're going to have sensitivities to pedals in proximity to the supplies. This is further problematic because these higher current pedals draw so much that you're most of the linear supplies I see come through here are almost pulling max current which means the magnetic field is as exaggerated as it can be - typically resulting in more noise issues. And again many of these "Semi-Toroid" (mostly C core or R core) supplies don't have mumetal or steel caps on them, so not much protection there. Easy to test this with a single coil pickup wired to a 1/4" jack - I do this all the time when I used to work with more linear supplies to see exactly where there were "problem areas". 3) Linear supplies are impractical for bands that travel - you're either switching supplies for every voltage of each country or using transformers - not that practical for those on lower touring budgets that have to resolve this on their own without a road crew or tour manager.
As far as power supplies go, Maybe I could have made myself clearer. I’m not at all arguing the legitimate use of switch mode supplies, and their clear benefits in pedalboard applications. My comment was perhaps more intended for any curious readers wanting to know why they are becoming standard practice in this application.
(“Cheap” switch mode supplies, in my book, are wall warts and similar, not the products mentioned in the video).
As you say, it’s not about what’s best on an infinite spectrum, but most suitable for the application at hand. And in this particular case, a no brainer.
//
About buffers - not sure what you are referring to in terms of Ti specifications, but I’m curious as to how one of the most common standard op-amps for this very application allegedly is terrible and how you arrived at this conclusion. I’ve built loads of designs in the buffer/line driver realm with TL072 without any of the issues you describe.
What annoys me about pedal manufacturers (and the boutique scene in particular) is the constant nag about color/transparency, and the inherit misdirection it presents. Most things generally appreciated are all but transparent, but that’s the whole point. The same way Hendrix’s long coiled cables played a crucial role in warming up a strat hitting cranked plexis, people opt for what sounds good, not what’s technically transparent. Passing any overdrive off as transparent is like describing beer as a clear liquid, but that’s a whole different discussion.
My point being that saying “the klon buffer is not such a good buffer” is at best highly subjective. And that the TL072 chip is bad for buffers is just blatantly wrong. You might like the possibly slightly warmer sound of a FET or transistor based approach (like the Cornish buffer for example), even though it’s technically less transparent. That’s all good, but it’s still an opinion and not a fact.
@@benstolt I think you were clear on this, I was just solidifying that in practice with the gear in question - switch mode now supersedes what a linear supply can equal at the size and price point. I think we're in agreement on this.
I reference the TI specs because it provides a baseline for the optimal conditions for the OPA. I mention 1K a one of the critical specs as the TL072 OPA isn't stable below that (by TI's own admission) and 1K is already a poor output Z for a buffer that's intended to drive any amount of capacitance on the output without any change in tone. Sure, a buffer could be made from a TL072, just not one that will accurately represent the sound of your guitar plugged into your amplifier with a 10ft. cable as the baseline "reference" when driving 10+ pedals, all the patch cable interconnections (presuming for now they're all in bypass and true bypass), circuitry inside the pedals from the I/O's to the footswtich, and a 20ft output cable bringing the pedalboard back to the amp input (a standard pedalboard). I'm not excluding the possibly that someone could decide to use a TL072 for a buffer, it would just be a the wrong part for the job if the goal is to be as colorless as possible.
I think your point about the boutique pedal industry has merit. I would say where we diverge here is that typically these terms in aggregate are attributed to characteristics of "distortion" colors or lack there of. This conversation is not typically associated with buffers as so few companies actually make dedicated buffers, and even fewer make great ones (or even good ones). I also think there is a lot of "broad brush" painting of buffers - with the narrative reading something like "as long as you have a buffer you're fine" not differentiating for the quality or efficacy of the buffer itself. It would be like saying "you don't need a Klon as long as you have an overdrive" as though all overdrives are the same.
It reads to me like where you're going at this from more of a taste profile ideology, i.e. "do I like the sound that Buffer X imparts?" Of course that is subjective - but not what I'm talking about here. In particular, I'm looking at what we can reasonably qualify as a high quality buffer based on the specifications and what we can test as amateur guitar players without much if any instrumentation. The baseline I talk about often here is putting your rig in a true bypass looper and brining it in/out so you can test how close your tone and dynamics are running through a pedalboard versus directly with a 10ft. cable into the amp for example. To me, that's the litmus test. I like the sound of my amp, I want as close to that sound as possible when running through my pedalboard, so my testing procedures and reference point reflects that. A TL072 versus a superior OPA for a buffer that's linear (BB2134 perhaps) will more more accurately represent what came in on the input even after a slew of pedals can cables. You may prefer a TL072 sonically, but it won't be as colorless as a more neutral OPA choice, and I would guess at that point that you prefer your amp with some additional color beyond what it produces normally if the TL072 is your preference.
With the Hendrix example, this is a compensation - perhaps informed by preference but also potentially by limitations of the time and lack of people to properly modify his amplifiers to his liking so he's adding a bunch of capacitance after his pickups before hitting any pedals which were all pretty high Z. It's hard to say if he would've done it different had he made music for more than a handful of years before his untimely death. This set up wasn't unique to Hendrix, we see most guitar players of his genre and generation doing much of the same with long coil cables into multiple loud 100W amps, maybe a few pedals. Most of them that are still around have evolved out that set up decades ago for reasons we can mostly only speculate.
The Klon buffer isn't a great buffer if you're measurement is how well it represents the input signal on the output when it's driving say a 50 foot cable with 40pf/ft. (Mogami 2524 type cable let's say) compared to a high quality buffer - like the Mesa Boogie High Wire for example. I've done these tests ad nauseam and it's no magic trick to see what these style buffers impart to the sound. Remember most pedal builders aren't rig builders, their not typically representing the conditions that most of their pedals will be used it with 5+ pedals preceding them, and 5+ pedals following them - all mixed impedances in/out, all different buffers from OPA, JFET, BJT, etc. Most pedal builders are optimizing for their own test conditions, typically in a vacuum, without much consideration of the above. I prefer OPA buffers over all else, they're generally the most neutral, but there is "more than one way to skin a cat" - but choosing the right part for the job is critical, and I'd never choose a TL072 for a buffer - again buffers shouldn't be an EQ, and most certainly not distortion generators which they become the more capacitance that is added on the output of a poorly designed buffer or a buffer insufficiently designed to be a high quality line driver. The Cornish buffer is BJT as I recall and does some unique stuff with the feedback loop to to get the input impedance up instead of going the Boss route of using a FET input so you can get that 1M input Z and then the BJT on the output for the lower output Z. I know many like Cornish's buffer, however it's not neutral by a mile and has a color of its own for sure. Some may like what it does to the signal, but it's not the same as the guitar into the amplifier with a lot of capacitance on the output. So again, by my standard of guitar into amp with a 10ft cable as the reference tone - the Cornish buffer doesn't resemble that sound when you but a pedalboard after it and lots of cable capacitance.
I hear you. I just don’t agree with you.
No, TL072 won’t have stability issues in a buffer circuit with lower output impedance than 1k. Sure, op-amps in general can become unstable driving a capacitive load, commonly solved with a series resistor in the capacitor-resistor junction on the output. Still not sure what you base this argument on, it sure isn’t the data sheet. But you do you, I rest my case.
Just to be pedantic; “emf” stands for electromotive force. “EM Field” is the proper abbreviation for electromagnetic field. 😃
I can actually be both depending on usage, look up EMF on internet and use as applies to your field (no put intended). One of the issue with using acronyms is there is bound to be overlap. In Wikipedia (as one data point) for example, EMF as electromagnetic fields supersedes "electromotive force" by a few results. Again, in our field, this is the standard abbreviation and you'd find it fairly pervasive as a universally used term to mean electromagnetic fields.
Hey Mason very good video! Your comment on the myth of DC cables running next audio cables, the answer is it depends. Especially with switch mode power supplies.
Often times the output stages are not properly filtered and they have switch mode frequency noise on the DC lines. Usually from a cost cutting measure by the manufacturer they leave out components like inductors capacitors and resistors designed to suppress that noise. Those inferior power supplies in that situation would not be a good power supply first off and two running audio lines next to those DC lines that are not filtered will induce noise on the audio lines. So I can understand why many builders don't trust DC power lines.
If you're using a DC power supply that's designed for audio, you won't have this issue and if you do, it's no related to the proximity of low voltage low current cables but the supply itself and the switching noise relative to what it's connected to.
@@VertexEffectsInc 100% agreed! I beta test for Caline Technologies in China. They have a new switchmode psu, and in my testing had to change out a load resistor value, but found the resistor/cap values that makeup the snubber network (components to filter out the switching frequency on the DC lines) were adequate. Its cool to learn about this stuff...including buffers! :-P
I have a T-rex Chameleon for my power supply, would this be a switch-mode supply?
I'm pretty sure those are linear.
I had one of these as my first power supply. They hum alot so I would agree that it's linear
thank you for the information!!! your videos have enlightened me so much and its helping me shop for the right products. Thank you!!!
I think I’d rather just plug my guitar straight into a computer for effects than have such a strong opinion on the subject of solder. If you’re *so* worried about a few thousandths of a percent of signal loss per patch cable just get rid of all the cables and use an audio interface.
Belongs to a guitarpedalscirclejerk lol.
@@bassyey I mean damn just tweak the eq to compensate, which is something you were going to do anyway.
If you perform live just buy the most reliable cables you can get and carry a few extra as spares. That microscopic bit of signal degradation isn't even in the top 100 things that'll impact how your guitar sounds in a crowded bar anyway.
"HEY, HEY EVERYBODY OUT THERE, SHUT UP AND PUT YOUR DRINKS DOWN SO YOU CAN FULLY APPRECIATE THE TONE OF MY PATCH CABLES!!!!"
@@michaelw6277 Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Just solder/screw properly, and it'll be fine. And people can mess up both, big time. If anything, most people can't solder but can use screws.
@@bassyey yeah man I got you right, I just felt like ranting some more.
People are passionate about what they love, It's obvious he's a pro. Take what knowledge you can, be envious not jealous.
I think the 18 volt thing started because there are a lot of (especially lower gain) overdrive and AIAB pedals that take 9-18 volts or anything in-between, and some sound a LOT better, with a lot more headroom and control in the sweep, at 18.
The problem is, obviously, not every pedal is designed for this use LOL
But everyone has the one guitar playing friend they know who's blown up multiple pedals doing this
A very well known American pedal company sells a buffer like pedal with 1 MΩ input impedance and 1 kΩ output impedance, and stating that, I quote: "Power
This device takes a standard 9 volt DC power supply with a 2.1mm negative center barrel. We always recommend pedal-specific, transformer-isolated wall-wart power supplies or multiple isolated-output supplies. Pedals will make extra noise if there is ripple or unclean power. Switching-type power supplies, daisy chains and non-pedal specific power supplies do not filter dirty power as well and let through unwanted noise. DO NOT RUN AT HIGHER VOLTAGES!"
It is really confusing for us, the consumers, to know who to trust. I was about to order this pedal, but right now, I 'm having second thoughts about it!
Great video, for one more time Mason!! :)
Exactly! All this tech talk is totally confusing to a lot of us musicians, someone really needs to break it down for us if they want some steady customers.
1M input impedance, good. 1K output impedance, NOT good. Their warning about switch mode power supplies is because there are some poor wall wart varieties that will cause noise because they're poorly made and cheap. If you go with any of the supplies we're recommending they'll be superior to any linear supply out there.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks Mason, I 've got the truetone CS12, but after your impedance recommendation, I'd rather not risk it and look for an alternative. This was not good news, but probably saving me from trouble in the long run. Any Vertex dealers in Europe? ;)
I learn a lot for you thx
Thanks for watching!
Mason, I smiled when you said to consult the manufacturer to make sure 18V is ok, since I’ve discussed it with you in the comments and am loving the extra headroom
Make sure you know before you go to 18V...I've seen too many accidents
@@VertexEffectsInc can you describe this more ? I have a 18v earthquaker compressior , and I’ve had it with a 9v power supply this whole time. Now I’m nervous 😂😅
@@jessieplaysmusic8530 if it's rated for 18V, then it's fine. You can under power a pedal without damage, you just can't over power a pedal and not expect damage.
Dave Friedman told me to take my 1-spot wall wart and toss out the window.
I think he's right.
I agree - the wall warts are not good. An example of a poor and cheap wall wart switching supply
Power xl warwick i think.....battery powered power supply works great no noise whatsoever
I like running two of my pedals at 18v , it's a factory option on them. The mxr stereo chorus I run at 18v, and my Ibanez Nu-tube screamer. The Nu-tube is gain stacked with a mxr Zakk Wylde overdrive. It gives it a little bit more headroom, more of a big open sound. Like you said it takes some compression out of the sound. I run them into two 50 watt tube amps. An old Carvin X50B with 4x12 cab and a Marshall jcm800 4010 combo. Loud and unique!
If it sounds good and you like it and the pedals can take it, do it!
Good video 😁
Thanks for watching!
Less myth, more a buffer question Mason. When I split my drive pedals chain at a buffer (I have a Humdinger, but building one of your designs for my 'other' board) to my Dry amp (let's call that Out 'A') and the rest of my effects (let's call that Out 'B') before going on to Wet amp(s), those outputs A & B are *usually* marked 'buffered' and 'isolated', respectively. Often, the isolated output will also have a phase inverter (just swapping the hot and cold?) and will be marked as un-earthed, or have an earth-lift switch. I *imagine* it would be best to 'save' the phase-switchable output to go through my time based Wet effects, so that if they ended up out-of-phase at the Wet amp speakers, recorder inputs, etc, I could *just* flip it... and that would mean the drive pedals to Dry amp input is coming out of the *plain* buffered output. Are my assumptions correct, incorrect, or *it doesn't really mater*? Is isolated/phase-shiftable/earth-liftable Output B (typically) buffered like the plain Output A as well? Please :-)
Well you wet effects could invert just as easily as your dry effects could invert the polarity. Those switches are really to ensure that your amplifiers are in the proper polarity (phase is not really the right word although these two terms get collapsed). Typically the isolated output will sound worse...most transformers can't take a lot of signal output for this application and are prone to low-end distortion. If you're using it as a splitter it probably doesn't matter much which goes where. The polarity control is more to correct the amp polarity, not stuff in the pedals.
Some constructive criticism... This is one of your best videos so far. You have a bad tendency to drone on about obvious points and skip over obvious questions. I have found several of your videos to be frustrating in what they left out. However this video was excellent from beginning to end. I can say I actually learned quite a few things. You might want to consider adhering to this format more closely in the future. Good work!
Cal, thanks! What were things I didn't cover well and glossed over?
@@VertexEffectsInc Hit me up at calcooper4@mailbox.org. I'll give you a couple of specific examples to help make your videos more focused. BTW, I'm and art director and editor by training, so I'm not just mouthing off. ; )
I have a compressor that I had connected to 18v and I got it to sound amazing in rehearsal, but when I took it on stage all of a sudden it sounded really squashed and over-compressing and I had no idea why.
After watching this video I understand that the reason was that on stage I had it connected to 9v instead of 18v and just like you said, the compression threshold changed dramatically.
Thanks for the eye-opener, excellent video 👌🏼
Thanks for watching!
I didn't believe any of these myths - nor would anyone who watches this channel regularly, since Mason's dealt with these all before.
Thanks for watching!!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc always watch every time a new Rig Doctor video drops. We may not all be pros, but it sure makes our weekend warriors gigs better!
@@EdmHistorEE I'm so glad you find it helpful!
Thanks! Very informative :-) (Should have watched this before GAS set in, but I managed to evade these 5)
Glad it helped!
Tried solderless…. Headaches at the most inappropriate times.
Always right before a rehearsal or a gig - at no other time! Everyone watches while we fiddle and see where the problem is...
Connection problems?
@@chopperdeath
Yes…. I suppose if you weren’t an active musician and the pedalboard stayed stationary at home, it would take longer to have issues. But, what a pain in the middle of a gig.🤬
@@MagnusonMusic1
Absolutely 😎👍🏼🎶
I’ve had a disconnect in the middle of a gig…. No fun
@@GtrPknMama Terrible! The George Ls do sound really great - bright and extremely clear. But too many connection issues over the years for me, so I’ve switched to soldering my own.
I agree about buffers. Buffers are THE stage that interacts with your pickup.
At least the input buffer is.
@@VertexEffectsInc Fave tube buffers: Sarno Black Box, Fuch's Tube Buffer; Fave other buffer: Analogman - so reactive, silky and smooth. Really good
No, you dont need that 55th tube screamer
No, you don’t.
Buffers: thanks for being very specific about the target input and output impedance. It gives people something very clear to try (and compare with buffers that have different specs, if we wish) to see if we hear any difference.
There are some "cheats" to this but this is a good general place to start.
Everybody knows, the tone is stored in the solder.
Ha!
I've had just as many problems with soldered cables as I have had with solderless cables. In fact, I've been using Lava Cable for a number of years now and if you put it together properly, you'll have little to no problems. But cables are simply a weak link in the chain. If you're dragging your pedalboard to gigs and rehearsals a lot, there's just a chance that a cable will fail and the weakest point will be where the plug attaches to the cable. But that also applies to soldered cables.
The only brand I've had excessive problems with is George L. And I also think that's the brand that gave solderless cables a bad name. Once I switched to Lava Cable, I actually had almost no problems anymore. Difficult to put together. But if it's done right, it's just as strong as a soldered cable. Guaranteed. People should not immediately write something off on a single experience. That is also very inherent to the guitarist world. This is how myths arise and happen again here. Too bad a professional does it. But I've already seen a number of professionals doing it.
Said it yourself: If put together properly, solderless cables work without issue, I've been using George L cables for 20 (+/-) years and have never experienced a failure, Anyone who does is simply assembling their cables incorrectly.
You underestimate the power of humidity. Corrosion will eventually get to your solderless cables’ connections. If you’re touring festivals, playing outdoors in humid environments, or just have bad climate control where your board is stored, using solderless connections is an unnecessary risk to take. Your anecdote should not be taken as fact. You may experience “almost no problems anymore”, but that doesn’t mean your solution is just as good.
People don’t want to feel dumb about their purchases. I understand the urge to justify the way you spent your hard-earned money. I don’t think you’re stupid for buying a product that works for you, and is simpler to put together than the alternative. But if you’re a musician traveling for work and performing in different environments every night, especially outdoors, you could save yourself a headache by using more reliable techniques.
@@steffengotsch The chance of corrosion is neither smaller nor greater with a solderless connection. A bad solder joint causes the same problems as a poorly assembled solderless patch cable. I have performed on many different stages in the past and it has also happened that drinks spilled over a pedal. The pedal eventually started giving me problems but I've never had any problems with a solderless patch cable. At least, not with Lava Cable. There are also plenty of professionals who fill their pedalboard with solderless patch cables. They would never do that if it would cause a lot of problems. It is also much easier to repair a patch cable. Try that with a soldered patch cable and plug. The guy from GigRig also uses Lava Cable as far as I know. Sorry to say, but the arguments against solderless cables are a lot of hear-say and parroting. Even professionals parrot each other without any real experience with solderless patch cables. I have not yet heard one argument that has convinced me. But the experience with solderless patch cables has shown the opposite so far. But I understand that I'm the one who doesn't want to feel stupid. I am fine with it.
I was suggested this video after watching you on sweetwater, where one of your "mistakes" people make is NOT separating DC and audio and doing perpendicular crossovers. You quite literally perpetuate this idea in one video then debunk it in another? Im lost.
I was thinking the same thing. Hmm.
Guys we need to upvote this comment. We can’t leave the Rig Doctor contradicting himself like that.
Literally Tip#2 - granted he makes valid points about how its negligible with low voltage, and that AC vs DC power is more a concern... he still does claim that it has an affect on noise, and recommends you separate audio from dc cables and to go perpendicular if they must cross... as a "best practice"
🤷♂️
ua-cam.com/video/FwZoACLZx2g/v-deo.html
Are you sure there wasn't a distinction between AC and DC? Typically, the rule of thumb, when mixing audio signal with DC, is there no problem at all with the currents and low voltages of guitar pedals. However, sometimes I will separate them to make easier trouble shooting if I ever need to re-work the power or audio without having to undo an entire loom of cables. With AC however, this can be much trickier and if you're going to touch AC and audio cables it's best to do it at 90% or perpendicular to avoid any noise resulting from this intersection.
@@VertexEffectsInc truthfully your description in said video was a little lacking of direction and hard to discern between different thoughts, so perhaps you meant to make that distinction, as as I said in my above reply you did mention AC vs DC within it, but you very clearly stated that although low voltages arent a huge concern, you should always at least try and separate your audio from your current. Honestly I didnt see an issue with it, its good practice whether it matters or not - but watching this video felt as if you were saying exactly the opposite while also kind of snarking at people who do say you should care about DC and Audio lines. Just seemed a little odd and i was confused.
FYI : Running two tube amps same time , drop the ground off one of them !
Good stuff on the 9 volt vs.18 volt debate. I’m glad to hear that it isn’t always “best” to run pedals at 18 just because they can be, which is what a LOT of people believe. It’s nice to know that there are some cases where it’s a good idea but some where it’s completely unnecessary.
Yes indeed! Thanks for watching!
A lot of this video comes across as the sales tactic of making you think what you have is inadequate and casting doubt on the quality of what is common. To be fair, I’m not accusing you of committing any type of fraud. The first two had the tone of “your connections are going to fail” and “your buffer is not good enough.” Your content is usually good. This just comes across a bit like a sales video.
That's the FIRST thing that popped into my head too. "Don't buy a Ford, they are junk...." Says the Chevy dealer.
I have the Voodoo Lab Power 2 attached to a Pedal Train board underneath. How would I shield it from the pedals that are over it? Or like you said don’t put any pedals on top of it. Or a sheet of led in between? Arrrrg . Can’t afford to change up now. Thanks for the info.
Luckily, that's the only supply they make that actually uses steel as the chassis and does provide some shielding. You may not be experiencing noise now...so you can test that and see. Also the EMF increases the more power you draw against the power supply...the more current drawn against the supply the larger the field. Mumetal or steel would be the ordinary way to do this, but it's not as easy as just throwing sheets of metal between the supply - you have to ID where the field is and try to encase it as much as possible.
How about MIDI splitters, and their effect on devices that accept MIDI
They're great I like the MIDI solutions boxes for this application.
@@VertexEffectsInc Have you checked out the Amptone Lab MIDI Splitter? Works similar to the MIDI Solutions
As always, Great video for us novices. How can you tell if a power supply is Switch Mode or Linear ? I currently have a Rockboard ISO Powerblock V10 Isolated Power Supply.
An easy way to tell is if it's only designed for one input voltage, e.g. 120V only! or 220V only! Or they'll have a slider or rocker switch to switch the input voltages to match the country. That's usually a sign that it's linear. Switch mode supplies will take any wall voltage on the input.
The L is not silent in the word Solder Or it would be SODER
They say SAW-drrrr around here. Tragic.
@@mikerevis6439 Ha ha YES I know I'm a Brit But I lived in Missouri for 10 Years
Seattle here.
The silent "L" the most underrated silent consonant after the "PH"
It is silent if you can't hear it. I can hear it...are you saying that you can't? Hmmm...must be genetic...
As always great advice, I read everything in the manuals supplied with my pedals about voltage!! Although some1 started not giving the power cords w/the boxes anymore & it caught on! Not that it really matters, it depends on 1's rig but it's the point of it. Thanks!
Soder.....🤣
Wow, this was great information! Always love your content, Mason. Very detailed and informative always.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I still don't understand how anyone can take that clown "The Tone King" seriously. Perfect example of "a guy" who pretends to be an expert, but he's an absolute embarrassment.
I don't know who that is
@@VertexEffectsInc Consider yourself lucky. If want an excuse to poke your eardrums out or light yourself on fire, just search for The Tone King here on YT. If you want a laugh while poking your eardrums out, watch him "perform" Detroit Rock City with Phil X in GuitCon video from a few years back.
@@tommynoble3428 rock n roll!
Uh, why are you slamming another youtuber, what's the relation to this video? Personal vendetta or something? Just curious.
@@ScottyBrockway No personal vendetta. TTK seems like a nice enough fellow. What I take issue with is his self-proclaimed expertise when all he is is a collector. He's a horrible player, he's horrible at dialing in tone, and plays the same things over and over and over again. And I brought him up only because Uncle Mason brought up people the difference between people who are knowledgeable and those who are "just a guy" and fundamentally not skilled and the latter is TTK.
Awesome vid as always. Speaking of buffers, where should a buffer go when you have a patch bay for the 4 cable method?
Input buffer (guitar), output buffer (to front of amp), fx return (coming from the last pedal in the fx loop)
This may have been an informative video, but these constant "Pop"-sounds were so incredibly annoying that I had to stop watching after 7 minutes. Unbearable.
sorry you found them off putting...seems overwhelmingly it didn't have the same impact, but we'll consider that for future videos.
Any chance you can do a demo how to use a multi meter to check inputs and outputs on guitars and amps and pedals etc?
To check that pedal is working? I think we have some multimeter basics in a few of the early videos. Let me know specifically what you're asking for.
2 questions, can you add Bufferin to your board to solve buffering problems, and are current power supplies better than old timey power supplies because they are more current?
Dude, I understood exactly zero of what you said. Thats on me. Lol
So should you have a buffer and a boost pedal??? or is the buffer basically doing that?
Any pedal that's "ON" is a buffer. True bypass or not. The quality of buffers varies greatly. I recommend you put a buffer on the input of your system (first) and an output buffer at the end (last). If you want to use a boost you can do that too, but I wouldn't rely on it as a buffer.
I've heard that if you spend over $10,000 on your pedal board (s), you'll immediately gain rock star status and you'll find a Lambo in your driveway the next morning with a bimbo in the passenger seat ready for a road trip....
If only that were true.
Is there a way to measure if signal is being lost or attenuated in a pedal chain with either a frequencey analyzer or an oscilloscope?
AC digital voltmeter. A scope would work, FFT analyzer, even a 1/3 octave display as they all show levels. The Voltmeter would give you a value readings, so that is best. But putting the rig in a true bypass looper and bringing it in/out is also a great test that you can do with stuff you might already have.
Your claim about solderless cables has a significant, misleading issue in your video.
Full disclosure...I have one board with Lava Cable Tightrope/Solderless ends (22 cables) and one board with soldered Mogami/HOSA pancake connectors (16 cables) which I have made. There are going to faulty connections with both when you are new to putting them together. After I found out how to do both correctly I have not had a bad connection in years...and I am not a road musician but one that plays gigs 35-45 times year and have not had a problem with either pedalboard. I did have more connection issues/mistakes with the solderless ends in the beginning but was able to improve my assembly technique and have avoided these problems.
You're opinions on solderless are potentially good ones but when you are saying things like, "You almost see zero of the rig building professional community using solderless cables...", you should actually say who and their words instead of showing shots of named individuals in the industry. They are not saying they agree with you in your video. You mention that you like to see proof but you speak without it when you make a claim like this. Plus, that strength test was ridiculous. 25 lbs. is a great strength level for a patch cable. And let's be honest here, one of the most popular gear UA-cam channels in That Pedal Show and Dan Steinhardt are very comfortable in using solderless for world-class professional pedalboards. He has clamed that he has not had one come apart on a professionally made, significantly road-used board...but this is only be one professional example. I am not trying to prove you wrong but do think you are being misleading.
I like both...I don't need one over the other as I like soldering cables but the solderless are great ,too. I don't normally comment on UA-cam videos but I don't like seeing claims being made with misleading evidence and even more so when it seems you are trying to insinuate that popular gear companies are on your opinion's 'side' without actually validating it. I like your channel and some of the DIY tips you've shared. This whole comment is really a suggestion that you do a better job of backing up your claims as you have made this one frequently.
Aaron, that video exists, several in fact where I read statements from (some directly to me or from interviews) or do actual interviews with the top rig building professionals. Guys like Robert Bradshaw, Pete Cornish, Paul Rivera, John Suhr, Dave Friedman, Steen Skrydstrup, Paul Lenders. If that's not the canonized list of the best rig builders in the world, I don't know who else should be there. They do say in their statements that they don't use nor recommend solderless cables. The proof of solderless cables not being a gas tight connection is inherent in the connection itself. We're not using cold welding crimps to create a solderless bond in our industry using $5,000 crimping tools that require a calibration every 500 crimps. We're using a set screw that 1/10 the diameter of the center conductor or a threaded connector that taps soft metal (copper) to create a connection while the shield floats and the entire return path is exposed. The proof is in plain site - how can a floated shield be gas tight? It's as if there is a disconnect between physical science and our preference to use one cable over another. 25 pounds is great if the cable is sedentary, but do you know how much inertia is generated by the human leg at normal walking speed with a 160 lbs man at a normal pace? Way more than 25 lbs.
I like Daniel, and I think he and Mick do a huge service to guitarists everywhere. That can be true, and he can be wrong about solderless cables. He's actually chimed in comments sections in some videos and said that he agrees that a soldered connection is superior but has found solderless to work for his applications. Very well...but that makes him the exception, not the rule. Finding one guy out of 8 that use solderless that are known rig builders isn't a great testimony for solderless being the professional standard. It's not.
I think if you do a little research (or just watch some of our older videos) you'll see that what I'm stating isn't being pulled out of thin air. The facts regarding gas tight connections, the efficacy of solderless connections, and that anyone purporting to use solderless as a pro rig builder is an outlier - with virtually no agreement among the rig building community among legacy builders that pre-exist me or Daniel.
@@VertexEffectsInc I appreciate the response. My point wasn't that solderless cables are better than soldered which seams to be the theme of your comment. My point was that you did a poor job or trying to relay proof abut your claim. Viewers shouldn't need to do their own when the maker of said video makes a claim. I don't know if the gentlemen you mentioned agree with you but I don't believe they do simply from this video. Provide proof for viewers in the moment of the comment if you are as vocal and repetitious about your opinion. Be the dagger in the heart of solderless cables if that's your aim...but do it effectively. And if a pedalboard is in some situation where you put 25lbs of pressure on a connector then, yeah, use soldered simply for that issue. I don't think that's a good enough reason to only use soldered cables as it seems to be relating to an unusual situation. I am not in Radiohead playing 2-300 shows a tour all over the world. Most of the people watching your videos are probably not touring musicians and have fun with their gear at home or playing out a bit. Again, I am not saying one type is better than the other in this comment but after learning how to assemble the solderless cables properly I have not had a failure in the 2-3 years I've used them on a board which was been used for close to 100 gigs with all the loading and unloading of gear, beer spills (not too many), stomps, kicks, etc...However, in my heart I feel soldered is probably a superior connection but that's not because of your video but rather through common sense. I'm not trying to be a dick here but I work in science and if I tried to support a claim they way your video did I would be ripped apart by my collogues.
One thing I can’t agree with is linear verse switchmode. I haven’t come across a smps which has lower noise floor than a linear supply. I make my own linear supply’s and recently I made an isolated 8 output using a Weber transformer.
I have smashed the lowest noise floor.
I have also learnt to keep anything with an oscillator or processor to dedicated dc output.
So if you have a large pedal board you can often have gain pedals sharing a dc output, but I try and keep modulation on its own dc output.
I did a comparison with my Zuma power supply and my own and the linear was heaps quieter. That my take!
There's something about this guy that I just dont like..or trust. Reminds me of a used car salesman. He sounds like Tommy Boy. Lol.
I've gotten Jack Black, Geraldo Rivera, and now Chris Farley in the same video...what are the chances. Well...unlike a used car salesman, I'm not selling anything - nothing that I manufacture, rather giving you the best information that I can that's vetted and fact checked for accuracy. You're welcome to do the opposite of what I recommend and see how it goes if you want to do some experimenting on your own.
holy schnikes I have two power supplies- a Zuma and an MXR ISO brick m238. I have resigned myself to the fact that I will probably never get rid of some of the noise my rig creates but now you got me thinking that linear power supply might be the culprit. I don't have any petals on top of it but it is surrounded by other petals. Thank you for the tip
The Zuma is a Switch Mode, so is the MXR...if you have noise, it's not likely from there. Could be cables, could be pedals. Watch our noise trouble shooting video for more on this!
Question revolving around buffers--if there is a pedal at the end of my board (tc electronics HOF II mini) that is on all the tiome, does that count as a buffer? It is true bypass, but I basically leave it on with a plate reverb setting....
It is a buffer if it's on...the quality of the buffer matters however. Just because you have one doesn't make it good.
In the intro B roll footage is an "In/Out Buffer Test Box" that I don't see mentioned further in the video, or listed in the description. A quick search online didn't yield anything. Is there any info on what this exactly tests, and where it's available?
If I am using a Boss ES8, would I turn off all initial buffers in the unit, and use a Mesa Buffer for I/O buffering?? Also I’m using fuzzes and I’ve heard that they are not compatible with buffers? With a system like the Boss ES8 would it be more ideal to just use an output buffer??
Yes, in a second! Yes, put fuzzes before your buffers generally. Some fuzzes do OK with low impedance, most do not however.
My favourite pedals are expensive, but I don’t expect them to sound several times better than the clones or cheap pedals. In a mix, it’s all gonna sound the same.
But being the one playing is different from listening. I just like how they sound when I’m playing. And how tweakable they to my core sound.
Do you need an input and output buffer if you’re only using 3 or 4 pedals? My last pedal before the amp is a delay pedal with a quality buffer. I’m assuming it wouldn’t make much difference in my case but am still curious about it.
Thanks