The Truth About Card Counting: Is Card Counting Illegal?
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- Опубліковано 31 бер 2020
- For anyone with an interest in Card Counting, one of the most common things you'll hear is "Isn't Card Counting Illegal?" Well, isn't it? Should it be? Why would it be? In this video, veteran card counter Colin Jones shares what card counting is, why most people think it's against the law, and some of the things casinos are doing about it.
Links Colin References in this Video:
How to Count Cards (and Bring Down the House)
• How to Count Cards (an...
The Truth about Backoffs as a Card Counter
• The Truth About Back C...
SUBSCRIBE for weekly Card Counting training: ua-cam.com/users/subscription_...
Get access to our FREE Card Counting Mini-Course: www.blackjackapprenticeship.c...
www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/ / blackjackapprenticeship
Casinos baning any suspicious player card counter is like if sports start baning people for getting good at sports
I always saw the negativity around card counting as exactly as you said, the casino doesn’t want ppl who are good and can win. And also they created a very clever narrative around it as you showed. Before I even knew what card counting was, I knew it was seen as “bad” or “wrong”. I like playing cards and I enjoy games which require a lot of strategy and skill vs games which are basically just chance. When I figured out what card counting was I was like oh ok so a legit card playing skill? Yea casinos suck lol
Wouldn't it make sense to keep a few card counters around, so to boost the casino image?
If people see other people win big, then they'll want to gamble more and make them even more money. I mean, come on, the average gambler isnt going to be that good at math, so not like they'll figure out how to card count
Yep - I was just about to make the same point. The losses the casino incurs due to card counting must be insignificant compared to the money they make off bad players, and like you said, seeing others win might actually encourage more bad players or higher risk betting strategies from those bad players.
Use the card counters as a marketing tool.
It's not worth the cost for them to advertise themselves as good places to card count. And they already advertise people who win big on any given day.
@@SanderBuruma I'm not suggesting the advertise it - but just don't stop it and let word of mouth do the advertising.
@@eljay5009 They'll only get more card counters this way, since it looks like most card counters hate casinos and won't encourage gambling. Plus, the variance of casinos makes it so at least some gamblers will make it big and encourage others to gamble. This is what makes a good add targetted at the right public
I believe computers were outlawed in Nevada mainly due to combat the threat of roulette wheel clocking. That's what brought Ed Thorpe into the casinos before blackjack.
Is it unethical for players to beat the casino's at blackjack? Yes
Is it unethical for casino's to beat the players at blackjack? No
🤔 Seems fair.
Went to vegas back in Feb and who do I see at the first casino I step in? Mr loudofton.
it's always funny to be reminded of card counting in casinos, because in trading card games the exact opposite philosophy is used, where you are expected to not only count your cards, but to effectively stack your deck so that you are more likely to pull good hands, and to make assumptions about/count the cards in the other person's deck based on every card they use.
Now’s the perfect time to learn and hone your skills...
this was very educational :) thank you so much for this. i never was much a gambler but this was a topic i was curious about.
Best thing to do now is to, later in the month, buy some stock in MGM, Boyd, Ceasers etc. when things tank to near zero.
This will help these wonderful businesses survive, so Colin and others can continue to make a living, and others like myself can practice a stimulating hobby.
I'm not a gambler at all, but I found this video interesting. I've long been intrigued by the whole card-counting thing. The casinos are corrupt.
Always the best at explaining! Thank you again for all your hard work and Sharing your knowledge with the world! Since all of my local casinos are closed for the moment, I’m getting back into my simulation games and practice while building up my bankroll even more than before. Stay safe and healthy my friend! Blessings!
Sounds like a movie you just described at the beginning.
Because it is
Great video Colin! You did an awesome job explaining that it is NOT illegal to use your brain in a casino. Well said.
I'm using this time to learn, and your videos are really helping! Thanks a ton!
It’s game and games require strategy
getting banned of cheating because you're too good at the game xD
Casino’s hate winners.... made me lol. Great points- learned a ton from this video.
I've tried card counting and it's FREAKIN AWESOME .... I don't know if people are messing with me when they say it takes a GENIUS to count cards , it's so hard for me to find out if I'm getting pranked lol
Card counters are a very cool group of people. Often left of centre with a streak of adventure in them. Not seedy, not dishonest at all
Wouldnt it be easy to _accidentally_ mark a card, just if your hands were dirty after eating or something? I feel like they'd get a lot of "false positives" that way... Now if i go to a casino, i'm going to be paranoid about keeping the cards as pristine as possible lol
As always, great video Colin! The casinos have done a great job of portraying card counting as cheating or illegal - which it clearly isn't.
About 50 hours deep into training :)
Started reading your book yesterday and am about halfway through.
Excited for the next vid
Been training since June 2019. Went to first casino in August 2019, lost. Think I finally had a winning game around November. Had a GREAT December. January was rough. February was good. Keep practicing and DO NOT go into a casino if you're still short at 1 of the 4 pillars
Thats the silver lining to all this covid stuff lol. Cant go to a casino even if i wanted to.
All done Colin's book.
Gettin my bankroll savings bigger and just practising whenever i got spare time :)
Trevor Jones just started. Please teach me lol
@@lovelyweather4057 the first thing to do is literally flip cards on one deck 1 at a time, like the 21 movie. If you can do the entire deck and get to a running count of 0 at the end of the deck, under 60 seconds. You're ready for the next training. The next training is start dealing cards, 2 cards per 6 players and then 1 upcard for the dealer (I know dealer gets a downcard also but for training don't do it). Run the count there as fast as you can and then discard those cards and run another 6 hands. I do this for the rest of my life haha.
Then you also need to memorize basic strategy for a 6 deck shoe, can be found online.
Playing deviations are something that Blackjack apprentice is trying to sell in their class.... but google is there also.
And the last pillar is running count to true count conversions. Take your running count and divide by how many decks are left in the 6 deck shoe. (The shoe is the device that holds the cards, always on the dealers left / players right)
@Max Kellerman I do although these days the decks remaining is pretty consistent as the tables aren't as full as they used to be pre covid days. Therefore it's just running count divided by decks remaining but decks remaining unfortunately remains high for much longer! eventually the decks remaining gets low enough for a serious true count and then we hit the cut card and all the 10's are still left in the remaining deck hahaha
Hi, do you have any recommendations on up-to-date books on how win at black jack and will basic strategy still be functional in a couple years (4 years perhaps)
Excellent video... Would you or do you have any info on when to go from one hand to two or even three and back to one..
Please
This is why when I hear stories about casinos getting screwed over I am glad how is it fair that's a casino is allowed to deny you service if you're winning but you're not using any devices to cheat screw the casinos
The book is beat the casino by Edward O Thorpe
So, for their big pile of cards, do they shuffle several decks together? Or do they shuffle them independently and then stack them next to each other to deal? I’ve never been to a Casino to play,
The casinos that i play do this. They'll take 2 decks and literally spread each card out over the table like a little kid and mix them all up (obviously facedown). Then they'll shuffle these 2 decks together and put them in the discard tray. Next 2 decks they do the same thing, spread out, and shuffled together. THey do this 3 times for a total of 6 decks. Then they'll take from the discard tray and once again, shuffle roughly 2 decks into eachother, 3 times. After this, they put the 6 decks into the automatic shuffler.
The system repeats with the next 6 deck shoe.
Colin, how do I now the rules of blackjack tables and the deck penetration in a casino before going there?
Sometimes there will be a giant sign if you go into certain areas. Otherwise ask the dealers. Asking about rules will make you look like a seasoned BlackJack player, but not a card counter. Deck penetration, you just have to watch before sitting at the table, (don't let them think you're wonging in)
I don't need to watch this video to tell you that it's not illegal.
Casinos thrive on snatching money from people, it's as simple as that. Just like how the government takes 25% of your wages and returns 1%, it's arbitrary.
The legality of something doesn't determine if something is /inherently/ good or bad, but usually when there is money, there is something going on.
Why does the blackjack in the intro pay 1:1?
Not like they don't hire deck controllers it's easy for slide of hand magicians. Hell think pen and teller have trick that explains it.
You can easily argue that cheating a casino is ethical, so I think its 100% ethical to just play the game in a smart way
In if was in the casino business I would cut a deal with counters. The can come once or twice a year and try and win, if they do, they have to brag about it in social media and tell everyone they can win too. Some are going to win but most will loose money. Counters win, casinos win and more people are brought to casinos. They have to think out of the box.
Card counting in blackjack is not illegal. However, casinos will have legal power to ban those players forever from their casino.
I have worked in casino industry in Atlantic City for 6 years, and I have seen these card counters playing single or double deck
blackjack trying to win huge money. When players are constantly winning money on the table, the players gets radar from the casino.
In the casino where I worked, we had a pit boss who is actually expert at counting cards. When a floor finds or thinks that
a player seems to be a card counter, our expert will go over to that game and watch if the player is "PERFECT CARD COUNTER".
If the player is not perfect counter, and makes a lot of mistakes, the casino will just let him keep on playing in the house even if he is been winning a lot of money.
Nowadays, it is almost impossible to make 6 figure money by counting cards because counters will likely get caught easily if they are playing big money.
I heard there are still many counters making couple of tens of thousand dollars playing between $50-$200 per hand and hopping around many different casinos.
I also play blackjack and tried to count cards hoping to make money... But, it is freaking hard............................. Well I do not even have enough bankroll to start
card counting journey in $25 minimum blackjack table anyway... I guess it will be better for me to play just for fun :)
Simple Gambler good on you blow your money
Hey, Colin and Blackjack Apprenticeship, I don't know if you saw, but @LegalEagle has a short segment about the legality of card-counting in his most recent video about "Legal Myths" (the whole video is worth watching, but the part about blackjack starts at 6:05) He doesn't go into as much depth as you do in this video, but it's a good summary: ua-cam.com/video/f2kEGj-S1Tc/v-deo.html
Spooking is illegal? I thought that if they show the whole card, or whatever, that it's a mistake then the player can take advantage.
Are the winnings taxed like regular income?
How do you practice card counting without going into a casino? Because I’m slow now and I need it get faster
There are programs online you can use. I think blackjack apprenticeship has one. There's also a blackjack simulator on casino verite you can buy
Similar to the movie 21, i was flipping card by card. Then once you get a deck under 60 seconds and your running count is accurate at 0, start dealing cards and PRACTICE COUNTING 2 CARDS AT A TIME. I think Collin calls it the cancel out system
I’m a noob at this. I haven’t even played for money with friends at a party or even sat at a table in the casino. Seriously, I’m not much of a gambler and only hope to win $500 a week just for fun. My question is, would a casino ban me for winning about $2K a month?
For card counting to be doableand profitable you need to atleast have 8 to 9 thousand dollars bankroll
Casino's shouldn't stress out about card counters. They just lower the pen and you're done. The non counters have no idea lol.
If you lose some money on purpose would they be out of your back?
What's your opinion on 6 deck free bet, push 22? Kinda feel the free doubles n free splits whenever u want, bring down RoR, but idk lol.
These blackjack variants have a much bigger house edge than regular blackjack and cant be beaten by counting cards. Wouldn't even play them except for Spanish 21
@@21AceJack thanks, just starting to count, and free bet is everywhere in my area, thanks for information.
The only game in the casino in which you choose the edge and have a lot of more power to maneuver to win is poker because you play against another player, not the house. Surprising how many people doesn't notice that and just associate casinos with gambling hahaha.
yes count cards in macau and monaco.
I think its a possible thing more than a fear of losing money game they make it seem like card counters are coming crimes which draws the attention to card counters a plants a seed in other people that wanna win, which brings them here to learn how to do it themselves and when even a small percentage of these 5mil. People think they got it and don't completely understand how to do it they lose money to the casino and the cycle continues, drawing in more people and making them more money in the long run. Cause remeber bad publicity is still publicity.
It appears I have picked up a side quest.
Is this an upload of an old video? I'm having deja vu!
Ben and I created a basic video in 2009 to answer this... thought it was time for a new, improved video answering this question.
to continue the logicitics and legality of card count when doing it full time do you pay taxes on your earnings? i figure 99.9% of people don't as there isn't a lot of income if any coming out of the casino but when you are winning 100k/ year I'm assuming you have to put it in a bank at some point do you not have to pay taxes but do have to keep strict logs incase you audited?
CojofoPlays the majority of card counters that I have met are very honest and keep very good logs and do pay taxes. Just like any cash based business or side hustle, there is the opportunity to lie on taxes, but that is fraud and the vast majority of card counters are highly ethical people
Just use the same deck, shuffle everytime after each hand, that's how we play and it's just a game of luck
So just throw money at a game and hope, "yahtzee?!" 😅
Braining down the House
How do i learn uk basic strategy and deviations? I have read your book
You can find UK BS on Wizard of Odds and we have the deviations in our Member's area!
@@Blackjackapprenticeship Ok i found the UK BS on W.O.O is the free deviation chart different for the UK?
Marcusian yeah. A little bit.
@@Blackjackapprenticeship Ok thanks when i bought your book i thought it would have everything i needed to start card counting but the actual technique was only in a few pages and not in complete detail. theres only a hand few casinos in london that dont use csm and im hoping to win some money before i get backed off.
Obviously it's not illegal I mean you're basically just thinking so if that's the illegal than idk
How effective is card counting in a 6 deck 6/5 Blackjack game?
6/5 payout can bring down the advantage to nearly zero.
Hey how are u? Could you say if exist some online casino trusted to play blackjack? In my country unfortunately it is illegal. Thks!
if i play online bj and they have the deck penetration of 4/8 cant i just count the cards as if it was only 4 decks of cards and devide it by the 4 instead of 8
Nope. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The true count conversion divisor begins at 8 for the first couple rounds, then would eventually dwindle down to 4 by the time the last couple rounds are dealt from the shoe.
50% penetration is not a winnable game if you are forced to make a wager every round. If you could somehow only make bets with a true 1 or more, then there'd be a chance for positive EV. This would only happen a small percentage of the time.
The answer to this is very simple: No
You mentioned spooking, but is hole carding illegal or just taking advantage of a weak dealer?
No, it's not illegal in the US... as long as you're sitting where a player is allowed to sit and you aren't colluding with a dealer.
Hi there This method only work on black jack or it can work on baccarat as well. !!
There are counting methods that can be used on baccarat for bonus bets. Check out wizard of odds
Jackson Kafe I always practice on the wizard site I’m not crazy about bonus.
i lost about 3k dollars in blackjack online casnios are shit.
I’m still working on perfecting my counting skills, so I’m not at the deviations part yet, but I was wondering if it’s worth it to play on a table where only doubles on 9-11 are allowed, since basic strategy tells you to double a lot of soft hands
If it's a double deck game you can still make a lot of money on one. Bet spread and penetration are the most important things
Hey how can we count cards at online casino ? they change deck when it comes to half
Don't bother with the online casinos. Waste of time and money
@@21AceJack thank you but are you sure ?
why would you say that ?
@@ceyhunkd If they cut the shoe in half your ev is virtually non existent in a 6 deck game. You cant make any good money long term with only half a 6 deck shoe. Not worth playing. You have to remember the majority of your EV is built on deck penetration. The more cards they give you in a shoe, the more true positive counts you get and the more you can make. With only half a shoe you might as well be gambling
@@21AceJack In my country casinos are forbbiden. Unfortunately. I have no other chance. Thats why Im playing online. :// atleast Im aware of my limit and that Im gambling
If its a 6 decks game and they cut it in half, can't we just divide the running count by 3 to get the real count? Always wondered that
Why not just trade out shoes or pre shuffle cards? All this drama for nothing. Change the betting limits to $30-300? There has to be a sweet spot for them to offer a game that doesn’t require unethical behavior by them upon discovering an actual winner!?!?!? How would you “beat” card counters if you owned a casino?
It's quite ridiculous how much casinos hate card counters and want to portray them as unethical, given that a lot of Casinos are pretty unethical scumbags themselves. They hate people who do have a working system to beat them, but they themselves promote systems that can supposedly beat them like the Martingale System.
Just go to any random video about the Martingale system and try to leave a comment explaining why it does not work and I guarantee you that this comment will have to be approved by the channel and will never get published. And if you then go a step further and do a little research, you will find out that the people behind those videos are actually working for casinos.
So they make false advertisement for systems that don't work, promising guaranteed wins while not allowing anyone to debunk them, but card counters are the unethical ones.
I wish more people would get into things card counting or matched betting to rip off those scumbags
Being smart in a casino is illegal.
Q:How can you count cards when you will get banned for every casino from the facial recognition program?
Theres probably soo many people that are flagged or banned from casinos but still go.
Cant catch everyone everytime.
Thousands of people come and go in a day. Its easy to miss a face
Not a card counter by the way
So what does a card counter do when most or all of the casinos are closed due to the Crono 19 virus. ( the ultimate back off)
I suppose after this card counters will be the casinos least of worries. Lol
Yeah, time for card counters to be training, improving their skills, and enjoy their time off. Casinos will reopen and the well prepared will make the most of it.
Blackjack Apprenticeship if you look closely on current world wide Covid 19 incident, majority of people tends to play blackjack online . Trust me , card counting only applicable in early 90s or early 20s. Now, card counting nearly inapplicable due to they cut half penetration on the shoes
@@redstar9072 ya trust him lulz 🙄
The real question is due to the lack of business income that casinos are taking a hit on due to corona pandemic will they start backing off card counters even more now than they did before...
@@21AceJack my biggest fear
I actually asked one of my local casinos and they said it is Illegal. Does it very state to state?
They cant make thinking illegal.
Innocent until proven guilty.
They have to prove without a reasonable doubt that you were cheating. No jury would convict. Counter sue. Instant bankroll.
I say hit that casino first :)
Whoever you asked doesn't know... that's part of the problem. They cannot arrest you for thinking. They can refuse service, but not convict you of a crime.
@@Blackjackapprenticeship is there legal paperwork proof or some other kind of proof of that?
@@Kas_Styles bet you can't find legal paperwork proof that using your brain is illegal 🤣not possible to make it illegal to think no matter how much power someone has. We go to school to learn math then get told by casino's not to use it. Ridiculous
@@mrgainz7252 oh i know. It’s stupid hat they say that just to make money. Actually the legal Eagle channel on UA-cam has a video that mentions that counting cards isn’t illegal at all.
Can't you sue the casino for using your brain
gimme money n god bless u
All businesses are about making money. In the case of Blackjack Apprenticeship, you get a LOT for what you pay.
Let me join in, please
Card counting may not be illegal but since a casino is a privately owned business couldn't they just say any one caught card counting will be kicked out and band?
I’m don’t gamble but how is using you brain cheating?
The deal is , Casino is a private business and they have the right to select their customers.
Hi collin I would like to know what you can try to do with about 500 dollars. A high risk of ruin is understandable but I would still like to try.
1. Save up more
2. Only wong in, probably true 3 and higher
3. Be incredibly patient and hope you get lucky early on
I cant play the game without focusin on that
Oh no you are good at math and you are taking all of our money. You must be cheating🙄. I wish I knew how to do that
Cards never cheat, only people do
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Very sorry card counters 100 precent chance you aren't making any EV during shut down plus cheddar card. Counting suX BAd,
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