They wrote a 10-episode season, then ohly got budget for 8 episodes and instead of rewriting it to trim down the padding, they just straight up moved the last 2 episodes into Season 3. Completely breaking the structure and leaving a perfectly normal "average" episode to serve as a finale for a season where nothing happened. Incredible.
Bingo. You'd think HBO would've learned that having SHORTER SEASONS would NOT WORK. It was the biggest problem with s7 and s8. Granted, I should note that in GOT this is how it was always. The finale wasn't grand or epic, but set things up for later. The big wtf moment was in episode 9. But they had that extra time to have the cooldown. Things like the lannister twin being in Essos should've been earlier in the season, around ep 6 or 7. The Red Sowing should've been episode 9. Then episode 10 would be the reaction, fallout, cooldown and setup from that.
Its criminal to use a normal episode that wasn't even the best episode as the finale without making some changes to make it feel like one. How they all sat, watched all that and thought it was a good ending is beyond me. To make it worse, we have to wait TWO YEARS to get going again.
Where did u get this info from? Seems right tho. Not sure why networks only want 8 episode seasons now it’s so shitty. Every tv show should have at least 10 episode seasons not less!
The problem with Season 1 was its time skips made it feel rushed since it covered two decades. But the problem with Season 2 is it felt too drawn out for only being about a year.
Glad Jeremy gave props to the first half of the season, cause I genuinely enjoyed the first 4 episodes. It’s only after ep 4 that the show slowed way down and felt like it had no wind in its sails.
Bruh episode 7 was awesome wdym. I get episode 5 also being a bit slower because you had so much happening in episode 4. Don't you remember GoT had some slow episodes too in its seasons? It was really only episodes 6 and 8 where it felt they could've made better use of em, and episode 8 would've been considered an amazing episode had it had one more after at least and not just the finale
I enjoyed ALL of the episodes, but it was really only episode 4 that had true momentum.. It blew me away but it was a one off. We want this to be much better, of course, but there's a lot of problems with this show imo.
Daemon at the end of season 1: bends the knee to Rhaenyra and accepts her as his queen Daemon at the end of season 2: bends the knee to Rhaenyra and accepts her as his queen Can’t wait to see what Daemon does at the end of season 3!
There was never a single scene where he bent the knee in season 1 lol nor was that season about Daemon changing his heart to pledge genuine fealty to Rhaenyra without thinking of himself first. If you don’t understand the show just say so lol
Daemon: “Winter is coming.” Me: Oh don’t worry about it. It’s all taken care of by a teenage girl with a butterknife so it genuinely doesn’t matter at all.
He completely forgot Rhaena exists. Most people, as well. Her plot is so useless and she appears for "hey, she still exists, let's go now to the next scene with other actors".
The writers wanted to give her a dragon for DEI reasons, that she never got in the book. So they sent her off to just look for a dragon, on foot, without any supplies. Makes totally sense.
@@IdocarebutIdontyou know what else makes sense? The potential heir to Driftmark just takes off course direction and not one person looks for her. Excellent.
Bro same here. Especially since I felt like GOT had the climax on the penultimate episode, then on the season finale we saw the aftermath of that and set up for the next season
The season desperately needed another big event to end with, HBO cutting 2 episodes was clearly a massive error. The vast majority of what we got was amazing, but ending the season like that felt so bad.
@@solomonokpobrisi4799It should not be considered as bad as season 8 of GoT. This season was clearly set up for the massive wars the next 2 seasons and since it got announced that HOTD will only be 4 seasons total, I don’t mind the finale, just the massive wait time for season 3 is the thing bugging everyone imo.
*SPOILERS* Even what we got coulda been more impactful. I didn't feel Rhaenys's, Sunfyre's, or any of the deaths enough as I could have. At least episode 4 was a great episode tho.
honestly i was more intrigued by the song of ice and fire possibly being a self-aggrandizing myth the targaryens tell themselves to maintain power, but instead it’s 100% a real prophecy that just happens to go nowhere
It only goes nowhere because the books are not finished. The last seasons of GOT which throw the series off the rails are rushed, nonsensical fanfiction.
@@smittyjjensin558 HOTD is clearly basing itself of the game of thrones TV show canon, where the prophecy indeed goes nowhere. a targaryen is nowhere near the iron throne when the white walkers are defeated, and neither jon or daenerys are hugely consequential in the fight against them.
@@PandainAtlanta she was in the throne room AFTER the white walkers were defeated, which the prophecy was actually about, not the political future of westeros. jon’s “sacrifice” of dany after the battle was also meaningless because the prophecy claimed it was necessary for the prince who was promised to sacrifice a woman they love to defeat the walkers. HOTD further confuses this by daemon’s vision painting dany as the prince who was promised, instead of GOT, which frames jon.
Great review. You are one of the few keeping it honest. Could not put my finger on what was bothering me about this season but you called it. I’m glad to be back in the Westeros world again but they need to pick up the pace. Thanks for sharing.
Describing it as a four episode season stretched to eight episodes is perfect, and particularly odd considering that they crammed 1.5-2 seasons worth of content into the first reason. The whole story could have been a three season series, but I just read there will be a fourth season, so I'm sure we're in for more weird pacing going forward.
That's because season 2 covered so little. I was dead certain that this season will end on SPOILERS Rhaenyra taking over King's Landing. It's such a natural conclusion to the storylines of this season. And then we could have had 3rd and final season about her rule and downfall. The end.
@@MatiZ815 Probably Season 3 is gonna cover the Battle of the Gullet, the fall of King's Landing, the Honeywine and Tumbleton. Season 4 could be the end of the dance with the Battle above the Gods Eye, the storming of the Dragonpit, the fall of Rhaenyra and Aegon, and the Hour of the Wolf. If they make the right choices the next 2 seasons could be great.
Apparently this was supposed to be a ten episode season, but HBO told them to cut the last two literally a month before filming. Then the writer’s strike happened and they couldn’t readjust anything while filming. That may explain the pacing issues with this season. The last two episodes of season two (which were never filmed) will likely be the premiere of season three
That might explain why their finale was a bit meh for most but it doesn't explain the issues the entire season had. It's not terrible but if they had known from the get go they had shorter seasons then they could really tighten up the story, have a more satisfying final. The need people have to want more episodes at the cost of quality, especially with a book that has limited story in it. Make the show to fit the story in it, if that means 5/6 episodes then do that, if it fits 8/9 do that. Sometimes you just can't have your cake (highest quality episodes) and eat it (big seasons).
Somehow I never noticed the wordplay House of the Drag-on. Now I can see the backroom where a certain producer guy read that wrong and asked a certain screenwriter guy to actually drag em on.
Dude, you perfectly encapsulate exactly what I was thinking the entire time I was like OK this is gonna pay off. OK it’s gonna pay off and all of a sudden the season just ends. It’s at least five out of the eight episodes were full. Filler could be trimmed down to nothing it was the same talking points, the same conversation over and over and over again, I love the world. I wanna know what happens but my God it’s a slow drip IV.
To me the biggest problem with this season finale is that it’s all setup for next season. It just doesn’t feel like a season finale. Also why are they trying to retroactively fix got season 8? They should know that’s impossible.
To be fair, that's how a lot of finales of GoT were. The difference is that in GoT we always had an amazing penultimate episode that felt like a climax.
The only way to fix it is with the Jon Snow show. He finds out that The Children males are actually warging into Night Walkers and make a whole new army. The only way to stop them is to wipe out the Children and it's up to him to take the throne, reunite the kingdoms and go full xenocide
@@MatiZ815 I think we're forgetting how awesome the finales of early GoT was. 1x10 literally ended with Robb declaring war and actually going to war. After Ned's head chopping that was great. 2x10 ends on the white walkers showing in force and Tywin being hand, this episode started the whole Valar morghulis thing. 3x10 ends with Dany well doing what she did the whole season I guess, but I'll give that finale a pass because of Red wedding clean up. 4x10, Tywin dies. Tyrion runs, Arya finally goes to Braavos. Remember that scene when she leaves to bravvos that was amazing. And you're right these things aren't happening in a vacuum, it's happening after MASSIVE ep9 battles/fights/deaths. So it's like even better in context. Just listing these things out in early GoT makes me mad about GoT ending and HoTD.
@@ribottostudio the ending shot breaks the show with Varys fast travelling from Merreen to Dorne then back to Merreen to be with Dany’s fleet. I can think of quite a few finale miles better than the got s6. The first five got finales were all better, the HotD s1 finale was the better.
I’m like 80% sure that they were screwed out of at least one or two episodes. As a book reader I know there’s two huge things that would have been the perfect finale or final two episodes that the “finale” was building to
Contrary to others’ claims, there is no evidence to support that HBO did anything (and I’ll note that the same writing issues affect the other episodes). The scripts were finalised in 2022 during preproduction, table readings started in January 2023 and production started in April 2023. Condal and Hess have also advised that the scripts were already finalised and further polished during table readings before the WGA strike started in May 2023. What we got was what they wrote - more episodes wouldn’t have made a difference to how they decided to structure the story this season.
@@Damon242 That's wrong, we know their initial plan was another 10 episode season before that was changed, and one of executive producers said in May this year to EW that reduced episodes was not their choice.
Yup. People are trying to make HBO the scapegoat here when the real criminals is the showrunner and writers. 2 more episodes would not fix the choices the writers made. They absolutely butchered the character of Alicent.@@Damon242
Why is that the reason people are gonna justify it? Alright they cut 2 episodes then why does the whole season feel like filler? You're telling me they couldn't cut down on that awful Lannister sub plot on the final episode to make room for more? Or all those scenes with Rhaena and the dragon? And you could go on, honestly it's just sad that they knew it was gonna be 2 less episodes and said alright this is what we consider important let's film it
I thought when Season 2 started with "Blood & Cheese," our season finale would be either the Battle of the Gullet or Fall of Kings Landing, but because they did so many filler episodes to "stretch things" out, we didn't get to either of those two, so the only real action packed sequence we truly got was the Rook's Rest episode (best one by far in Season 2). Daemon was wasted away at Harrenhall, Corlys was sitting around barely doing anything, Helaena is an interesting character, but they're not giving her much screen-time, they're clearly replacing Nettles with Rhanea's character now, and they didn't give enough character development or screen-time to the dragonseed characters (Hugh, Ulf, & Addam) enough for us to know their motivations or intentions going into Season 3 at all. Another was the whole dynamic between Alicent & Rhaenyra the entire season because the show wanted us to really care about their relationship clearly and it just didn't hit or work especially in the season finale episode! After what we saw and learned from Season 2 episode 3 up to that finale, how could Alicent honestly expect Rhaneyra to trust her word on anything! The only consolation with how slow Season 2 was and how much they didn't allow to happen, Season 3 has a lot of good action packed events on the horizon!
Honestly, if they had just one more episode where Rhaenyra and Alicent actually enact their plan, and the season ended with Rhaenyra sitting the Iron Throne, that would have made the entire season feel way more worth it. All the big battles are still to come, lots of crazy shit is still going to happen, but it would have given the season an actual purpose other than just setting up season 3. It is funny, when season one was airing, the showrunners described it as the prelude to the dance…… when in reality, it was the prelude to the prelude to the dance.
Yeah but that can't happen because the triarchy about to attack the gullet. Also why tf does Alicent suggest to take kings landing when a) she has no sway over the guards b) they don't need her help since she literally just told them aemond left and c) it's literally supposed to be daemons plan because the goldcloaks are loyal to him and not fucking Alicent?
My biggest question for people is: Would you rather we got like 2-3 episodes of Daemon, and then nothing? Cause that's about how much we would've gotten if they followed what's laid out in the books. I'm not a huge fan of the overabundance of Harrenhal shenanigans, either, but a lot of the characters shown in those scenes will play their parts later as well. Idk, I get why people are upset, but everyone latches on to the easily thing to grip about like a leech nowadays. I still enjoyed the season, even if I think it should've been a couple more episodes with how much they padded things up.
The season was great and it would be a disservice to the audience for the next major plot point to be rushed within two episodes. Big battle scene finales are nice in theory and for fanfare but it’s terrible for pacing and momentum going into the next season. It’s confusing to me how this comment section is willing to praise S1 but not S2 when they were both comprised of mostly politics. The only big battle in S1 was the Daemon vs the Triarchy. S1 may have seemed to have more “content” because it was actually rushed. They covered an incredible amount of time in one season. I believe people just enjoy complaining about everything. Twitter brain.
I really feel they sidelined Deamon this season for the sole reason that he doesn't overshadow Alicent and Rhaenyra. Because for the life of me i can't figure out why are we still focusing on their relationship when we are WELL past the point of diplomacy. And that ending with Alicent agreeing to kill her kids? Absolute character assassination.
Not really a characther assasination when she clearly loves some of her children over the pthers. Problem is we never saw one of them, she didn't spend much time with her daughter or the other two lunatics as a mother. It's not Sophie's choice but I can buy Alicent agreeing to kill some of her children.
The finale drew the battle lines, affirmed a future problem with Dragonseeds that'll be confronted next season, put all the necessary pieces on the board. The season was more about cautiously approaching the impending war and absolute destructive potential of Dragons. Next season will probably focus on the actual fighting and Rhaenyra's reign over King's Landing and why she just doesn't cleanhouse Alicent and Haelaena when she takes the city. The characters are lot less spite driven and vicious than their book counterparts (in keeping with unreliable narrator problem Fire and Blood hits on). I'm juiced for Season 3 and Knight of the Seven Kingdoms looks like it's gonna be good.
There are so many references that you make to heroes, I wish you would just do a rewatch on heroes. That first season and even second season, deserve so much more love.
Warner Brothers made them cut the last 2 episodes and then the writer's strike happened and there was no time to rewrite the season as 8 episodes. So basically episodes 9 and 10 with the big battles were moved to Season 3 which now screws up that season too.
*Remeber how in Game of Thrones, we used to get a mind-blowing episode 9, before the mind-blowing season finale, we don't get that in House of Dragons. This series is missing something.*
It's a much shorter story than GoT, and the most exciting bits need to be sprinkled across four seasons. Shots could've technically been a WILD 3 seasons.
You guys absolutely dont remeber anything from GOT. Go rewatch it. Episode 8 or 9 was big battle/thing and last episode was alway aftermath and set up for next season.
Trust me for all the padding of this season you would not want them to "make things faster" in the next two seasons. They have so much ground to cover still and rushing it would be another got s8 scenario. They needed ten episodes this season to cover the two battles that they teased at the end. While seasons 3 and 4 also need ten episodes each
I understand that people are upset with the slow pacing of the season, but the entire section devoted to the Dance of the Dragons in Fire & Blood is only like 100 pages in total, and supposedly House of the Dragon is only supposed to be four seasons total. Honestly they are having to add a lot of stuff in, because the Dance isn't super drawn out as a whole event and is rather jumpy and sporatic in the telling.
I just HATE how they spoiled character deaths and other stuff for prophecy bs scenes. That's like spoiling the end of a 12 round boxing match and then expect me to watch the entire thing starting at round 1. When Game of Thrones did these scenes, at least they kept them so vague that you couldn't consider them to be spoilers.
I can absolutely agree it was dissapointing. BUT a lot of people seem to mix the definition of what "garbage" and what "disappointing" is. So many people are saying this episode is awful, garbage, poorly written, boring and on and on it goes, but it's truly not. Flawed? Sure. It's not perfect. But it hasn't ruined the show in any way or done any damage to the show either. The writing is for the most part still excellent, but i see people throwing around that the writing is "garbage", but that's 100% wrong. At times, the writing hasn't been able to reach the level it was at in season 1, but 95% of the time, it's been excellent. The scene with Daemon and Rhaenyra at Harrenhal was freaking amazing, the scene with Aemond, Helaena and Alicent was freaking amazing, the scene with the weirwood tree + Daemon was freaking amazing, the montage at the end was nice and Cristen and Gwayne's scene was freaking amazing. So many great things about this episode, even though it had the unfortunate placement of being a season finale. Some of the criticism is valid, but most of the criticism i see is far too harsh. At least that's my opinion.
Good season but I agree with the pacing. Should have been 10 episodes! Also Jeremy says it should have been a 2 season show but that’s not true. I am a book reader and there are many battles yet to come! At least 6!
The problem with Daemon also exists in the book. He gets sent to Harrenhall and basically does nothing for a long while. He actually has something to do here even if its losing his damn mind. It would have helped if they added a quick battle. The Lannisters attack Harrenhall not realizing Daemon is there and he drives them off. That could be Daemon trying to release some stress from his dreams and the reason the Lannister army refuses to march without Aemond and Vaegar.
he literally rallies the riverlords to the black's side ffs what do you mean he does 'nothing' they could've went deep into the politics of gaining allies and showing Daemon that he needs more than fear to gain them, instead of showing him fucking his mother, declaring himself king and watching GOT s8
Yea they had to fill that part with something but it could have been done better. Like making him focus more on the drama of getting the river lords on his side. There could have even been a few internal battles from that. That would have been better than multiple episodes of hallucinations
@@ninjastorm540 Maybe going to actually visit each Riverlord would've been better, but he NEEDED to stay at Harrenhal, because that's an important part of the map. They said it over and over that the Riverlands are important stretches of territory. Easy to march across, easy to battle on. Flat land makes for good conquest.
You sum it up well. I kept looking at run time last episode thinking are we going get going or what? And it never did ha. Its right 2nd from last ep has often been the big budget ep, but usually in last ep there would at least be a feel good chills moment. This had nothing. Forwarded nothing.
I liked it. I liked all of it. I think they are setting up season three very well. Everyone is getting into place and will be ready for what is to come. I haven't read the book/s, I don't know, and don't know if they are keeping to it/them but I find it good TV.
In my frustration with this season, and the prospect of another 2-year wait, I read quite a few book spoilers and have a controversial opinion: With the changes they've made to certain characters, I don't think they can follow the book and still have a satisfying conclusion. I find myself wanting them to not follow the book, even though the fact that this was based on a finished work was the only reason I decided to give it a shot after the end of GoT.
@@govinddas7876 The can't get rid of her bc WOMAN, WOMAN PERFECT. I have have vagina so I can write whatever dogshit fanfiction I want and HBO won't do shit out "diversity", Ultimate trump card is sexist victim card.
I disagree with the filler comment. I feel like it was needed for the characters placement and for what's happening next. If we didn't have the "filler" of harrenhall daemons change wouldn't have felt earned. We needed to know where he's at with his mindset and how he got there. Everything feels very purposefully done to have a near perfect build and execution for some very satisfying action. Where we actually feel the weight of everything that's happening and why it's happening.. I just feel like we could have got more than 8 episodes so we could see it happen this year and not 2026
I just fundementaly disagree with this ''It's filler'' claim. It really isn't. It should have been 10 Episodes with there being 2 more episodes after this. YES! But the season asa whole is solid. And it's not HBO draging it out. They have a billion things they wanna do. No, George R.R. Martin, the guy who fought for minimum 10 seasons of Game of Thrones is the one who's said they need atleast 4 seasons for House of the Dragon. He didn't get his wish for GoT. But he's getting it for HotD.
The reason he wasn’t in Harrenhal for only an episode or two is because he’s suppose to be there for majority of the story as he is in the books in deviating from that would’ve changed the story drastically And it’s not like this story is that long so they have to drag it out in order to get four seasons but one thing I will say is even though they’re dragging it they’re still leaving certain stuff out they left out an entire battle that came before Rhaenys battle/death
It's not that the audience wanted that, they just wanted a better product. This season has so many holes. Plot, characters, pacing and more. It's just OK which isnt a bad thing. But the expectations for a show of this magnitude is HIGH. gotta deliver when you set that kind of bar (season 1 being a banger). Let's see what they Roll out next time, but it's pretty clear from all the ruckus that they dropped the ball here 😂
@@edwinbatiste4810 The quality is top notch. All i see is people wanting more dumb action and less interesting political maneuvering and character development.
@@alexm2889 if this is top notch then what you do call season one cause it was way better. It’s not even about the action sequences, the best thing about this show has always been the dialogue and superb character and world building. Not action sequences smh. They had Daemon wasting away in that busted up castle. Those sequences were boring asf
Every season of every show is a trailer for the following season unless its the final season. In the case of HotD S2 sure the pace slowed down in the backend but still I feel there is value in every episode as opposed to say some anime filler where the divergence from the main plot can be genuinely insane.
The whole point of Daemon going to Harrenhal is that he had to face its "curse" If he failed, he'd be there as a shell of a man who eventually rots away to nothing..but if he succeeds..well, he raises an army.. The curse was designed to be like trying to do anything while stuck in mud. It isn't until he gains certain knowledge that he's able to get himself out of the mud.
I watched the first 3 episodes on a weekly basis, then had to stop for work reasons. This weekend, I binged the whole season and actually really enjoyed it. I think binging it actually enhances the the story. In my review, I also added some thoughts about why some of the episodes felt a little long, but I think it was for a good reason.
I think George was saying he wanted 4-5 seasons. He also said he wanted GOT to be more than 8. Those creators didn’t listen and everyone got angry at the ending of GOT. I think this time the creators are listening to George so let’s see.
While watching the Daemon stuff felt sluggish and too long to get moving (also a bit frustrating because he’s my favourite character), I found the payoff satisfying and it would’ve been very out of character if he came to that realisation in one or two episodes. Even though I thought they were setting up a bigger finale with the end of the last episode I still loved this season overall and can’t wait to see where they go next season (as someone who has hasn’t read the book).
Im the opposite. There was very good character expansion with all the visions but then they ruin ALL that by making Daemon go "im doing it all because of a prophecy" Not because he as a character grew, but a prophecy told him to.
this actually wasn't a case of HBO stretching it out, it was them cutting it short. The season was written as 10 episodes, with episode 9 set to be the crazy battle at The Gullet, but Warner execs slashed budgets and cut the season by 2 episodes just before filming. Thus, our crazy episode 9 has been pushed to episode 1 of Season 3. That's why the season feels so ant-climactic.
Honestly, it's a terrible decision. Starting the war in season 3, episode 1 just won't work. By the time it airs, casual viewers will likely have forgotten the storyline, the characters, and even the reasons behind the war. All the subtle details that we remember now, which would make the experience more emotional, will be lost. I’d much prefer if they used episode 1 to show the marches, the sailings, and some smaller moments of drama so we can reconnect with the characters and rebuild that emotional attachment.
As a book reader I can assure you there's so many battles and interesting events that they can't possibly (I hope) use the next two seasons for filler if that's any reassurance to viewers but you definitely hit the nail on the head this season felt like another run up to war 😕
House of the politics got a bit too much democracy with everyone randomly being more pragmatic than the modern world, they keep on squabbling like a chess game making it so deep and seemingly suspensive that it's lacking action and sword fights like in the first couple seasons of GOT. Ruining a cool nervestruck character like Daemon over some stupid mind visions
I literally loved every episode except the finale. After that though, I'm starting to realize that the writers of the show are framing Rhaenyra to be the righteous one while Alicent gets released from any responsibility for starting this. Ultimately it's the men's fault, and I find that counter to the entire show leading up to it.
Then make the character self realize that into existence. What they did instead was "I saw it in a vision it has to ve true" They ruined 6 episodes of vision character growth only for him to do it because of a prophecy. Lame lazy writing.
@@govinddas7876 Daemon had to reject the crown so that he could believe the prophecy. If Daemon never had the visions he had, then based off what Daemon has done previously in the show, he wouldn’t have believed it and instead would want to still be on the throne instead of Rhaenyra.
@@Unknown-by6mr I just dont buy that. This felt like he changed his mind PURELY based on the prophecy. At least have some changes beforehand or something. But nope now he's just like Rhaenyra, doing it 'because it is what has to happen' removes all agency from the characters when you make their entire motivation a prophecy.
Gotta get those episodes in. But those dragon episodes have to be verrrrrrry expensive. That’s my thought as to why it was 8 episodes. Shorter than normal, but still dragged out a bit.
Such unfair treatment of Aemond… he’s looked upon as the villain, yet he’s only defending his cause, as anyone should. He’s fighting a war his mother started yet being condemned for it. Also, giving Ewan 20 minutes total screen time is a crime, he’s easily one of the best actors on the show, the little breakdown after the chat with Helena was amazing. I hope they give him a lot more presence in s3 and a satisfying death (which they spoiled to everyone for some reason).
Yeah Alicent is afraid of Aemond because he burned down a village but didn't give 2 fucks when criston cole did the same or when her dad slaughtered all of Rhaenyra's supporters in kings landing. What a fucking hypocrite.
They way people talk about the Daemon plotline reminds of how people complained about Arya and The Hound spending an entire season just traveling. Just so impatient.
@attiepollard7847 you can simply look up reviews and read the comments from back then. It's just funny in the end how it keeps happening. Also, I looked through your comments are you're an incel. So I'll just ignore you.
@@attiepollard7847"yeah but not everyone said that", "you can't even spell", and calling people "boy". Grow up you man child. IamXhedo is right. Ignoring you seems to be the right move. So cry some more.
Overall thought this season was very good, but suffered from the episode count dropping from 10 to 8. The finale was a really well done episode but would have probably worked better with the battle following it up and then ending the season on the aftermath. I’m glad they didn’t try to cram that all into 8 episodes though. As someone who’s read the book, I think this pacing/setup from season 2 will pay off in the long run and it sets up seasons 3 and 4 perfectly.
@@Sonsofgod26 GoT had plenty of prophecies that go unfulfilled so the audience has reason to believe the same for the one about Aemond. Good job being a d**k to non-book readers, though.
@@aln5494 Those prophecies are vague and ambiguous. This is clear as day. You don’t have to be a book reader to see the writing on the wall. Now go white knight somewhere else.
To me it seems that hbo is not going to give them the budget they need to do this story justice going forward as next season would have to have 6-7 battles in that would need to be massive
Still its no Acolyte or Zack Snyder cut, Rings of Power bullshit. Thanks to the show producers that made a well made product that didnt really have a payoff for the end.
I can’t agree with you with it being filler. I agree, the Daemon at Harrenhall was long stretched out but we did get decent payoff in the finale with that huge army. There was plenty of significance that happened from episode 4 onwards.
Glad you mentioned that about the penultimate episode being more action-packed. I noticed that too with GoT, so this show seems to be following that method.
Iinm, it’s 4 seasons because GRRM wants it to be 4 seasons, and I’m pretty sure he wanted ten episodes each. And I’m really pretty sure at least some of the show runners and/or like, people at HBO have said they want to cut it down, which it seems like they already have with 8 episodes this season if that’s true. About Daemon and Harrenhal, in the book he’s supposed to be sort of a foil to Aemond. They both super similar but daemon is more than twice his age and they’ve had different life experiences and circumstances, and made different choices because of that, I think they had so much Harrenhal stuff to show us why the battle above the gods eye plays out the way it does, that and to flesh out some old gods green magic stuff, imo
Nah, this story definitely needs 4 seasons. They're not stretching it out. Two seasons would have been way too rushed. I do agree that this season meandered a bit though, especially in the second half.
I completely agree. The first half was a little slow, but had a lot of Good stuff. Everything after that was me wondering when we were going to pick up the pace. Based on the actual action, this season was, as you said, a four-episode season, disguised as an eight-episode season. Also, thanks for the Heroes highlight. I forgot about that show and might go back and watch it. lol
I thought you were supposed to give honest reviews. It fell off in the second part? It was a piece of woke bullsh*t with horrendous writing in every single aspect, weak ass characters, dialogue and plot development. Seriously where do they get this writers from? People should demand more from this shows and I cant understand how they just swallow this sh*t And Jeremy I encorauge you to do better and have no fear of being cancelled and just say what it is man. Cause if somebody doesnt stand against this we’ll just keep getting the same thing every time. And I’m honestly tired of the propaganda, the wasted potential on fantastic universes and of never watching a truthfully meaningfull story
It's a classic book vs movie (TV) argument. In the book, time can pass for 1 character in just a few lines, and while it could pass on screen just as fast, it doesn't when you pay an actor that much money ro give up years of their lives for your show...they (actors and producers) will want the FaceTime with the audience. I liked where the Daemon thing eventually went, but I thought it could also have been way shorter. I liked that the castle is cursed and was messing with him, I liked the werewood tree vision (and it may have been what was messing with him too). There is a book theory that those trees contain a collective consciousness of countless souls of the Children of the Forest and some of the First Men who worshipped the old gods. The theory also goes on to include a "time traveling" Branden Stark who can project his consciousness through the trees and see and influence the world through them. (Which is why it was a big deal when the Andols cut them down in their war vs the Children and the First Men.) Those trees also messed with Sweet Robin, Bran's weird cousin from the Veil. That said, I could have done with about 45 minutes less of Harren Hall...and maybe even added a 1 second clip of Bran in that vision or have the witch mentioned him once or twice ... as opposed to a very Freudian vision of Daemon's Mom. Admittedly though, I liked the parts with his brother King Visarys. I loved the very quick glimpse of the 3 Eyed Crow at the start of that werewood vision...shows you that this is better written than D&D's GoT and that GRRM might have a bit more to do with it...which is why we will never get the end to those books.
There are many criticisms to have of the season, but my eyes were glued to every Daemon scene. He had to essentially be deconstructed and rebuilt as a character, and I don’t see that happening in two episodes.
The thing is, it's mostly not really filler (Daemon's storyline excluded) , it's BUILDUP and setting the board, it's all leading to things (bookreader here lol) but the problem is that it's setting up things that they didn't payoff this season. I had a really strong image in my mind where the season was going because (without spoiling anything) there are very interesting moments to come that they could have ended this season with. However it really just feels like this season was cut short because the dragon CGI is too expensive for HBO now, so it's almost like we literally got 8 out of 10 planned episodes. That said, as much as it frustrates me, season 3 should be really cool. It's just annoying we have to wait so long to get there...
Yes! It's like this season's sole showrunner - Ryan C - wanted to punish Daemon's character & Matt Smith for being SO popular in the brilliant & superior season 1. Confine & segregate him from the other main characters by sending him on a draaawn out side quest. Smfh.
Ending of season 1: "We're going to war"
Ending of season 2: "We're going to war"
Season 3 episode 1: The war is over and happened offscreen, here's the aftermath episode
Ending of season 3: “we're also going to war“
@@abu-karam0 oh please end of season 3 will probably be the storming of the dragonpit if they open with the fall of king's landing.
@@chaosiscoming9184 😂😂😂😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣
Ending of season 4: Rat catcher gets resurrected and Alisent becomes queen of the 7 kingdoms.
Season 1: we're on the brink of war!
Season 2: we're on the brink of war!
you could say that for Jon Snow, who basically says 'winter is coming' for seasons
@@CaptainFrankBlack House of Edging 🤣
@extrasoap4881
Ok that had a certain date, and before those events compelling crap actually happened
@@AscendantStoic Larys be edging fr
They wrote a 10-episode season, then ohly got budget for 8 episodes and instead of rewriting it to trim down the padding, they just straight up moved the last 2 episodes into Season 3. Completely breaking the structure and leaving a perfectly normal "average" episode to serve as a finale for a season where nothing happened. Incredible.
Bingo. You'd think HBO would've learned that having SHORTER SEASONS would NOT WORK. It was the biggest problem with s7 and s8. Granted, I should note that in GOT this is how it was always. The finale wasn't grand or epic, but set things up for later. The big wtf moment was in episode 9. But they had that extra time to have the cooldown. Things like the lannister twin being in Essos should've been earlier in the season, around ep 6 or 7. The Red Sowing should've been episode 9. Then episode 10 would be the reaction, fallout, cooldown and setup from that.
@@ribottostudio I'm pretty sure it was D&D that wanted less episodes. HBO was more than willing to give them more seasons for GOT.
Its criminal to use a normal episode that wasn't even the best episode as the finale without making some changes to make it feel like one. How they all sat, watched all that and thought it was a good ending is beyond me. To make it worse, we have to wait TWO YEARS to get going again.
Where did u get this info from? Seems right tho. Not sure why networks only want 8 episode seasons now it’s so shitty. Every tv show should have at least 10 episode seasons not less!
Also George R.R. Martin wanted 4 seasons of this show. When they wanted 3.
Finale that never was
Oh yes. Sadly
Best comment!
No it literally happened.
@@mufasa37 what happened? Nothing literally happened as it was no finale but normal episode
absolute best comment. I was 100% sure E8 wasnt the last one in s2...... but sadly
This finale left my balls so blue.
We’ve been smurfed
@@Eddie_fn_g 😂😂😂😂 I did not expect this. I am going to use it and hope it becomes an actual phrase people use.
Stop Edging
As blue as Daeron's dragon
This show has great writing, sets, acting... but it struggles with the same things as Andor
The problem with Season 1 was its time skips made it feel rushed since it covered two decades. But the problem with Season 2 is it felt too drawn out for only being about a year.
Glad Jeremy gave props to the first half of the season, cause I genuinely enjoyed the first 4 episodes. It’s only after ep 4 that the show slowed way down and felt like it had no wind in its sails.
Same here. First 4 episodes were great.
Same I didn’t know until after eps 4 that it would be 8 episodes….all downhill from there.
Bruh episode 7 was awesome wdym. I get episode 5 also being a bit slower because you had so much happening in episode 4. Don't you remember GoT had some slow episodes too in its seasons? It was really only episodes 6 and 8 where it felt they could've made better use of em, and episode 8 would've been considered an amazing episode had it had one more after at least and not just the finale
I enjoyed ALL of the episodes, but it was really only episode 4 that had true momentum..
It blew me away but it was a one off.
We want this to be much better, of course, but there's a lot of problems with this show imo.
This show has great writing, sets, acting... but it struggles with the same things as Andor
Daemon be playing Luigi's Mansion for six episodes straight 💀
😂😂😂So true.
Daemon at the end of season 1: bends the knee to Rhaenyra and accepts her as his queen
Daemon at the end of season 2: bends the knee to Rhaenyra and accepts her as his queen
Can’t wait to see what Daemon does at the end of season 3!
LMAO
I dunno what you'll see tbh
i can spoil it for you if you want, but its guna be awesome
He dies
There was never a single scene where he bent the knee in season 1 lol nor was that season about Daemon changing his heart to pledge genuine fealty to Rhaenyra without thinking of himself first.
If you don’t understand the show just say so lol
At this point it feels like most of season 3 will be marching and sailing to war 😂.
😂
They gave us a 60 minute commercial for season 3 🤣
Wow, what an original comment. Definitely haven't seen that verbatim on literally every video about this episode...
Did you come up with this all by yourself?
It's almost like that's the job of a finale of a season.
*8 episode trailer
@@edwitt137someone’s triggered 🤣🫵
Daemon: “Winter is coming.”
Me: Oh don’t worry about it. It’s all taken care of by a teenage girl with a butterknife so it genuinely doesn’t matter at all.
He completely forgot Rhaena exists. Most people, as well. Her plot is so useless and she appears for "hey, she still exists, let's go now to the next scene with other actors".
I didn't understand any of that plot line. I kinda get it now but... it was odd
to be fair that's exactly how she is in the book. Her and A LOT of characters are just there.
The writers wanted to give her a dragon for DEI reasons, that she never got in the book. So they sent her off to just look for a dragon, on foot, without any supplies. Makes totally sense.
@prettyboyg1278 The character she is replacing is also a woman 🙄
@@IdocarebutIdontyou know what else makes sense? The potential heir to Driftmark just takes off course direction and not one person looks for her. Excellent.
I didn’t even realise it was the finale until this video 😭 I thought surely there’s 2 more episodes with the actual war
Lol
Bro same here. Especially since I felt like GOT had the climax on the penultimate episode, then on the season finale we saw the aftermath of that and set up for the next season
Nah those 2 episodes were cut by WB and moved to s3.
Hota 2, was such a let down
The season desperately needed another big event to end with, HBO cutting 2 episodes was clearly a massive error. The vast majority of what we got was amazing, but ending the season like that felt so bad.
The vast majority of what we got was amazing, but the ending was so bad.....
No one else seeing the pattern?
Just me?
@@solomonokpobrisi4799 The ending wasn't bad, it was missing entirely, moved to next season by HBO (probably trying to cut costs).
Like at least give us what happens to the girl and the dragon
@@solomonokpobrisi4799It should not be considered as bad as season 8 of GoT. This season was clearly set up for the massive wars the next 2 seasons and since it got announced that HOTD will only be 4 seasons total, I don’t mind the finale, just the massive wait time for season 3 is the thing bugging everyone imo.
*SPOILERS*
Even what we got coulda been more impactful. I didn't feel Rhaenys's, Sunfyre's, or any of the deaths enough as I could have. At least episode 4 was a great episode tho.
All buildup and no payoff. The only episodes that mattered were 1, 4 and 7.
I dunno I'd add in episode 5 to that list. Showing off Meleys was a big moment. Leading of course to the dragonpit.
Poor Meleys. Didn't deserve it.
Agreed. I’d say Episode 1,2,4 and 7
that sounds like pretty good pacing...
@@alexm2889You don’t understand pacing if you think that’s true.
honestly i was more intrigued by the song of ice and fire possibly being a self-aggrandizing myth the targaryens tell themselves to maintain power, but instead it’s 100% a real prophecy that just happens to go nowhere
It only goes nowhere because the books are not finished. The last seasons of GOT which throw the series off the rails are rushed, nonsensical fanfiction.
@@smittyjjensin558 HOTD is clearly basing itself of the game of thrones TV show canon, where the prophecy indeed goes nowhere. a targaryen is nowhere near the iron throne when the white walkers are defeated, and neither jon or daenerys are hugely consequential in the fight against them.
@@issaphae9659Did we forget that Dany literally died next to the iron throne?
@@PandainAtlantaNobody wants to remember that trash .. people erased it from their memories.
@@PandainAtlanta she was in the throne room AFTER the white walkers were defeated, which the prophecy was actually about, not the political future of westeros. jon’s “sacrifice” of dany after the battle was also meaningless because the prophecy claimed it was necessary for the prince who was promised to sacrifice a woman they love to defeat the walkers. HOTD further confuses this by daemon’s vision painting dany as the prince who was promised, instead of GOT, which frames jon.
Great review. You are one of the few keeping it honest. Could not put my finger on what was bothering me about this season but you called it. I’m glad to be back in the Westeros world again but they need to pick up the pace. Thanks for sharing.
Describing it as a four episode season stretched to eight episodes is perfect, and particularly odd considering that they crammed 1.5-2 seasons worth of content into the first reason. The whole story could have been a three season series, but I just read there will be a fourth season, so I'm sure we're in for more weird pacing going forward.
There is WAY too much remaining for just 1 season, honestly it'll be a stretch even to fit it into 2 (which makes this season more baffling).
That's because season 2 covered so little. I was dead certain that this season will end on SPOILERS
Rhaenyra taking over King's Landing. It's such a natural conclusion to the storylines of this season. And then we could have had 3rd and final season about her rule and downfall. The end.
@@MatiZ815 Probably Season 3 is gonna cover the Battle of the Gullet, the fall of King's Landing, the Honeywine and Tumbleton. Season 4 could be the end of the dance with the Battle above the Gods Eye, the storming of the Dragonpit, the fall of Rhaenyra and Aegon, and the Hour of the Wolf.
If they make the right choices the next 2 seasons could be great.
@@MatiZ815 but there will be 4 seasons
@@MatiZ815 There is way too much to cover after the Fall of King's Landing to fit in just one season
Apparently this was supposed to be a ten episode season, but HBO told them to cut the last two literally a month before filming. Then the writer’s strike happened and they couldn’t readjust anything while filming. That may explain the pacing issues with this season. The last two episodes of season two (which were never filmed) will likely be the premiere of season three
That might explain why their finale was a bit meh for most but it doesn't explain the issues the entire season had. It's not terrible but if they had known from the get go they had shorter seasons then they could really tighten up the story, have a more satisfying final. The need people have to want more episodes at the cost of quality, especially with a book that has limited story in it. Make the show to fit the story in it, if that means 5/6 episodes then do that, if it fits 8/9 do that. Sometimes you just can't have your cake (highest quality episodes) and eat it (big seasons).
Somehow I never noticed the wordplay House of the Drag-on. Now I can see the backroom where a certain producer guy read that wrong and asked a certain screenwriter guy to actually drag em on.
Yet another conflict in this show that just boils down to a tragic misunderstanding, ya hate to see it.
Oh getting dragged on is TIGHT!!
Dude, you perfectly encapsulate exactly what I was thinking the entire time I was like OK this is gonna pay off. OK it’s gonna pay off and all of a sudden the season just ends. It’s at least five out of the eight episodes were full. Filler could be trimmed down to nothing it was the same talking points, the same conversation over and over and over again, I love the world. I wanna know what happens but my God it’s a slow drip IV.
To me the biggest problem with this season finale is that it’s all setup for next season. It just doesn’t feel like a season finale. Also why are they trying to retroactively fix got season 8? They should know that’s impossible.
To be fair, that's how a lot of finales of GoT were. The difference is that in GoT we always had an amazing penultimate episode that felt like a climax.
The only way to fix it is with the Jon Snow show. He finds out that The Children males are actually warging into Night Walkers and make a whole new army. The only way to stop them is to wipe out the Children and it's up to him to take the throne, reunite the kingdoms and go full xenocide
@@MatiZ815 I think we're forgetting how awesome the finales of early GoT was. 1x10 literally ended with Robb declaring war and actually going to war. After Ned's head chopping that was great. 2x10 ends on the white walkers showing in force and Tywin being hand, this episode started the whole Valar morghulis thing. 3x10 ends with Dany well doing what she did the whole season I guess, but I'll give that finale a pass because of Red wedding clean up. 4x10, Tywin dies. Tyrion runs, Arya finally goes to Braavos. Remember that scene when she leaves to bravvos that was amazing.
And you're right these things aren't happening in a vacuum, it's happening after MASSIVE ep9 battles/fights/deaths. So it's like even better in context.
Just listing these things out in early GoT makes me mad about GoT ending and HoTD.
@@midgetwars1 I will forever die on the hill that GOT S6's finale was THE BEST finale on tv. That ending shot was chef's kiss.
@@ribottostudio the ending shot breaks the show with Varys fast travelling from Merreen to Dorne then back to Merreen to be with Dany’s fleet. I can think of quite a few finale miles better than the got s6. The first five got finales were all better, the HotD s1 finale was the better.
The reason daemon's character took a massive dip is because sara hess didn't like how popular he got in s1 she literally stated it that's all
I’m like 80% sure that they were screwed out of at least one or two episodes. As a book reader I know there’s two huge things that would have been the perfect finale or final two episodes that the “finale” was building to
HBO cut the season to 8 episodes (from 10) against what the showrunners wanted.
Contrary to others’ claims, there is no evidence to support that HBO did anything (and I’ll note that the same writing issues affect the other episodes).
The scripts were finalised in 2022 during preproduction, table readings started in January 2023 and production started in April 2023. Condal and Hess have also advised that the scripts were already finalised and further polished during table readings before the WGA strike started in May 2023.
What we got was what they wrote - more episodes wouldn’t have made a difference to how they decided to structure the story this season.
@@Damon242 That's wrong, we know their initial plan was another 10 episode season before that was changed, and one of executive producers said in May this year to EW that reduced episodes was not their choice.
Yup. People are trying to make HBO the scapegoat here when the real criminals is the showrunner and writers. 2 more episodes would not fix the choices the writers made. They absolutely butchered the character of Alicent.@@Damon242
Why is that the reason people are gonna justify it? Alright they cut 2 episodes then why does the whole season feel like filler? You're telling me they couldn't cut down on that awful Lannister sub plot on the final episode to make room for more? Or all those scenes with Rhaena and the dragon? And you could go on, honestly it's just sad that they knew it was gonna be 2 less episodes and said alright this is what we consider important let's film it
I thought when Season 2 started with "Blood & Cheese," our season finale would be either the Battle of the Gullet or Fall of Kings Landing, but because they did so many filler episodes to "stretch things" out, we didn't get to either of those two, so the only real action packed sequence we truly got was the Rook's Rest episode (best one by far in Season 2).
Daemon was wasted away at Harrenhall, Corlys was sitting around barely doing anything, Helaena is an interesting character, but they're not giving her much screen-time, they're clearly replacing Nettles with Rhanea's character now, and they didn't give enough character development or screen-time to the dragonseed characters (Hugh, Ulf, & Addam) enough for us to know their motivations or intentions going into Season 3 at all.
Another was the whole dynamic between Alicent & Rhaenyra the entire season because the show wanted us to really care about their relationship clearly and it just didn't hit or work especially in the season finale episode! After what we saw and learned from Season 2 episode 3 up to that finale, how could Alicent honestly expect Rhaneyra to trust her word on anything!
The only consolation with how slow Season 2 was and how much they didn't allow to happen, Season 3 has a lot of good action packed events on the horizon!
Honestly, if they had just one more episode where Rhaenyra and Alicent actually enact their plan, and the season ended with Rhaenyra sitting the Iron Throne, that would have made the entire season feel way more worth it. All the big battles are still to come, lots of crazy shit is still going to happen, but it would have given the season an actual purpose other than just setting up season 3.
It is funny, when season one was airing, the showrunners described it as the prelude to the dance…… when in reality, it was the prelude to the prelude to the dance.
Oh, I remember that. They were like "Season 2! This is where the fun begins"
I thought that was going to happen in the last ten minutes of the episode.
Yeah but that can't happen because the triarchy about to attack the gullet. Also why tf does Alicent suggest to take kings landing when a) she has no sway over the guards b) they don't need her help since she literally just told them aemond left and c) it's literally supposed to be daemons plan because the goldcloaks are loyal to him and not fucking Alicent?
Well, season was literally supposed to have 10 episodes, only for that to be reduced to 8 when script was already written.
If they rushed through the plot and either skipped or killed off everyone you’d complain it was rushing too much
exactly
Beard Meet Food shoutout, what a guy, Jeremy.
They look like they could be brothers
@@devanman7920I can see it. One chose to review film & TV and the other chose to review food challenges 😂
@@devanman7920 Beard Meets Food does not look like "Jerimiah Jahns"
disgusting beard man
@@TchHry Its just the very dark hair. You don't think if Jeremy grew a big beard they wouldn't pass as bros?
My biggest question for people is: Would you rather we got like 2-3 episodes of Daemon, and then nothing? Cause that's about how much we would've gotten if they followed what's laid out in the books. I'm not a huge fan of the overabundance of Harrenhal shenanigans, either, but a lot of the characters shown in those scenes will play their parts later as well.
Idk, I get why people are upset, but everyone latches on to the easily thing to grip about like a leech nowadays. I still enjoyed the season, even if I think it should've been a couple more episodes with how much they padded things up.
The season was great and it would be a disservice to the audience for the next major plot point to be rushed within two episodes.
Big battle scene finales are nice in theory and for fanfare but it’s terrible for pacing and momentum going into the next season.
It’s confusing to me how this comment section is willing to praise S1 but not S2 when they were both comprised of mostly politics. The only big battle in S1 was the Daemon vs the Triarchy.
S1 may have seemed to have more “content” because it was actually rushed. They covered an incredible amount of time in one season.
I believe people just enjoy complaining about everything. Twitter brain.
I really feel they sidelined Deamon this season for the sole reason that he doesn't overshadow Alicent and Rhaenyra. Because for the life of me i can't figure out why are we still focusing on their relationship when we are WELL past the point of diplomacy. And that ending with Alicent agreeing to kill her kids? Absolute character assassination.
Not really a characther assasination when she clearly loves some of her children over the pthers. Problem is we never saw one of them, she didn't spend much time with her daughter or the other two lunatics as a mother. It's not Sophie's choice but I can buy Alicent agreeing to kill some of her children.
The last episode was like a very long nice trailer not like an actual finale. 7/10
Season two was an entire Filler EPISODE.
(Spoilers)
Aemond is going to be having a similar Harenhall arc like Daemon as he did took the castle and stayed there for like 6 months.
@@danielbauchman5715 exactly this 😂 fans are gonna go nuts. Then Daemon and Aemond will fight at the end of season 3. The end
The finale drew the battle lines, affirmed a future problem with Dragonseeds that'll be confronted next season, put all the necessary pieces on the board. The season was more about cautiously approaching the impending war and absolute destructive potential of Dragons. Next season will probably focus on the actual fighting and Rhaenyra's reign over King's Landing and why she just doesn't cleanhouse Alicent and Haelaena when she takes the city. The characters are lot less spite driven and vicious than their book counterparts (in keeping with unreliable narrator problem Fire and Blood hits on). I'm juiced for Season 3 and Knight of the Seven Kingdoms looks like it's gonna be good.
There are so many references that you make to heroes, I wish you would just do a rewatch on heroes. That first season and even second season, deserve so much more love.
Warner Brothers made them cut the last 2 episodes and then the writer's strike happened and there was no time to rewrite the season as 8 episodes. So basically episodes 9 and 10 with the big battles were moved to Season 3 which now screws up that season too.
*Remeber how in Game of Thrones, we used to get a mind-blowing episode 9, before the mind-blowing season finale, we don't get that in House of Dragons. This series is missing something.*
Good writing is what is missing
It's a much shorter story than GoT, and the most exciting bits need to be sprinkled across four seasons. Shots could've technically been a WILD 3 seasons.
You guys absolutely dont remeber anything from GOT. Go rewatch it. Episode 8 or 9 was big battle/thing and last episode was alway aftermath and set up for next season.
@@taylorwalker7417it definitely didn’t NEED to be spread out like this. This show should have been 2 seasons. They’re stretching it out to 4 or 5
To be fair, the finale episodes weren’t exactly “mind blowing”. Still better then most of this season though
Trust me for all the padding of this season you would not want them to "make things faster" in the next two seasons. They have so much ground to cover still and rushing it would be another got s8 scenario. They needed ten episodes this season to cover the two battles that they teased at the end. While seasons 3 and 4 also need ten episodes each
Daemon tripped all of Game of Thrones in that weirwood tree and hated the 8th season
I understand that people are upset with the slow pacing of the season, but the entire section devoted to the Dance of the Dragons in Fire & Blood is only like 100 pages in total, and supposedly House of the Dragon is only supposed to be four seasons total. Honestly they are having to add a lot of stuff in, because the Dance isn't super drawn out as a whole event and is rather jumpy and sporatic in the telling.
I just HATE how they spoiled character deaths and other stuff for prophecy bs scenes. That's like spoiling the end of a 12 round boxing match and then expect me to watch the entire thing starting at round 1. When Game of Thrones did these scenes, at least they kept them so vague that you couldn't consider them to be spoilers.
I can absolutely agree it was dissapointing. BUT a lot of people seem to mix the definition of what "garbage" and what "disappointing" is. So many people are saying this episode is awful, garbage, poorly written, boring and on and on it goes, but it's truly not. Flawed? Sure. It's not perfect. But it hasn't ruined the show in any way or done any damage to the show either. The writing is for the most part still excellent, but i see people throwing around that the writing is "garbage", but that's 100% wrong. At times, the writing hasn't been able to reach the level it was at in season 1, but 95% of the time, it's been excellent. The scene with Daemon and Rhaenyra at Harrenhal was freaking amazing, the scene with Aemond, Helaena and Alicent was freaking amazing, the scene with the weirwood tree + Daemon was freaking amazing, the montage at the end was nice and Cristen and Gwayne's scene was freaking amazing. So many great things about this episode, even though it had the unfortunate placement of being a season finale. Some of the criticism is valid, but most of the criticism i see is far too harsh. At least that's my opinion.
Is it just me who thinks the actor who plays Rhaenerys is doing a bang average job? The actress who played the younger version was MUCH better imo.
Good season but I agree with the pacing. Should have been 10 episodes! Also Jeremy says it should have been a 2 season show but that’s not true. I am a book reader and there are many battles yet to come! At least 6!
The problem with Daemon also exists in the book. He gets sent to Harrenhall and basically does nothing for a long while. He actually has something to do here even if its losing his damn mind. It would have helped if they added a quick battle. The Lannisters attack Harrenhall not realizing Daemon is there and he drives them off. That could be Daemon trying to release some stress from his dreams and the reason the Lannister army refuses to march without Aemond and Vaegar.
he literally rallies the riverlords to the black's side ffs what do you mean he does 'nothing' they could've went deep into the politics of gaining allies and showing Daemon that he needs more than fear to gain them, instead of showing him fucking his mother, declaring himself king and watching GOT s8
He actually did a little by stealing a castle while the lord was away, which also set up for him doing it again later.
Yea they had to fill that part with something but it could have been done better. Like making him focus more on the drama of getting the river lords on his side. There could have even been a few internal battles from that. That would have been better than multiple episodes of hallucinations
@@ninjastorm540 Maybe going to actually visit each Riverlord would've been better, but he NEEDED to stay at Harrenhal, because that's an important part of the map. They said it over and over that the Riverlands are important stretches of territory. Easy to march across, easy to battle on. Flat land makes for good conquest.
You sum it up well. I kept looking at run time last episode thinking are we going get going or what? And it never did ha. Its right 2nd from last ep has often been the big budget ep, but usually in last ep there would at least be a feel good chills moment. This had nothing. Forwarded nothing.
They are seriously milking this short book for as many seasons as possible
well in a 700+ page book, the Dance of the Dragons only has like 100 pages or so devoted to it
I liked it. I liked all of it. I think they are setting up season three very well. Everyone is getting into place and will be ready for what is to come. I haven't read the book/s, I don't know, and don't know if they are keeping to it/them but I find it good TV.
I liked the season and think it'll be even better on a binge
In my frustration with this season, and the prospect of another 2-year wait, I read quite a few book spoilers and have a controversial opinion:
With the changes they've made to certain characters, I don't think they can follow the book and still have a satisfying conclusion. I find myself wanting them to not follow the book, even though the fact that this was based on a finished work was the only reason I decided to give it a shot after the end of GoT.
Crazy how much better season 1 was. They need to clear out the writers room.
Correct
They need to clear out Sara Hess. She has consistenly written both the worst episodes from both seasons.
@@govinddas7876 The can't get rid of her bc WOMAN, WOMAN PERFECT. I have have vagina so I can write whatever dogshit fanfiction I want and HBO won't do shit out "diversity", Ultimate trump card is sexist victim card.
BeardMeatsFood!! Another one of my favorite UA-camrs! Never thought I'd hear him mentioned here. 😂 Love Adam!
I disagree with the filler comment. I feel like it was needed for the characters placement and for what's happening next. If we didn't have the "filler" of harrenhall daemons change wouldn't have felt earned. We needed to know where he's at with his mindset and how he got there. Everything feels very purposefully done to have a near perfect build and execution for some very satisfying action. Where we actually feel the weight of everything that's happening and why it's happening..
I just feel like we could have got more than 8 episodes so we could see it happen this year and not 2026
This show is like my job. Tons of meetings and nobody actually doing anything.
I just fundementaly disagree with this ''It's filler'' claim. It really isn't. It should have been 10 Episodes with there being 2 more episodes after this. YES! But the season asa whole is solid. And it's not HBO draging it out. They have a billion things they wanna do. No, George R.R. Martin, the guy who fought for minimum 10 seasons of Game of Thrones is the one who's said they need atleast 4 seasons for House of the Dragon. He didn't get his wish for GoT. But he's getting it for HotD.
Im just happy we got to see our frosty friends from beyond the wall for a split second. Still haven't gotten over my boy the night king 👑
4 seasons? Are they kidding? This story is not worth 4 seasons. It's one book about one major event and it gets half the seasons all of ASOIAF got?
The reason he wasn’t in Harrenhal for only an episode or two is because he’s suppose to be there for majority of the story as he is in the books in deviating from that would’ve changed the story drastically And it’s not like this story is that long so they have to drag it out in order to get four seasons but one thing I will say is even though they’re dragging it they’re still leaving certain stuff out they left out an entire battle that came before Rhaenys battle/death
the irony of the audience wanting fire and blood when the queens are trying to do everything they can to make it peaceful.
It's not that the audience wanted that, they just wanted a better product. This season has so many holes. Plot, characters, pacing and more. It's just OK which isnt a bad thing. But the expectations for a show of this magnitude is HIGH. gotta deliver when you set that kind of bar (season 1 being a banger). Let's see what they Roll out next time, but it's pretty clear from all the ruckus that they dropped the ball here 😂
@@edwinbatiste4810 The quality is top notch. All i see is people wanting more dumb action and less interesting political maneuvering and character development.
@@alexm2889 if this is top notch then what you do call season one cause it was way better. It’s not even about the action sequences, the best thing about this show has always been the dialogue and superb character and world building. Not action sequences smh. They had Daemon wasting away in that busted up castle. Those sequences were boring asf
Daemon's Harrehal experience reminded me of Daenarys' House of the Undying sequence except that it lasted way more episodes than was needed.
Season 2: an 8 episode trailer for Season 3.
Every season of every show is a trailer for the following season unless its the final season. In the case of HotD S2 sure the pace slowed down in the backend but still I feel there is value in every episode as opposed to say some anime filler where the divergence from the main plot can be genuinely insane.
The whole point of Daemon going to Harrenhal is that he had to face its "curse" If he failed, he'd be there as a shell of a man who eventually rots away to nothing..but if he succeeds..well, he raises an army.. The curse was designed to be like trying to do anything while stuck in mud. It isn't until he gains certain knowledge that he's able to get himself out of the mud.
I watched the first 3 episodes on a weekly basis, then had to stop for work reasons. This weekend, I binged the whole season and actually really enjoyed it. I think binging it actually enhances the the story. In my review, I also added some thoughts about why some of the episodes felt a little long, but I think it was for a good reason.
Referencing GoT is a bad idea. We don't want to remember how this leads to a boring version of Charles Xavier getting the crown.
I think George was saying he wanted 4-5 seasons. He also said he wanted GOT to be more than 8. Those creators didn’t listen and everyone got angry at the ending of GOT. I think this time the creators are listening to George so let’s see.
While watching the Daemon stuff felt sluggish and too long to get moving (also a bit frustrating because he’s my favourite character), I found the payoff satisfying and it would’ve been very out of character if he came to that realisation in one or two episodes. Even though I thought they were setting up a bigger finale with the end of the last episode I still loved this season overall and can’t wait to see where they go next season (as someone who has hasn’t read the book).
Im the opposite. There was very good character expansion with all the visions but then they ruin ALL that by making Daemon go "im doing it all because of a prophecy"
Not because he as a character grew, but a prophecy told him to.
Yeah ruining a cool nervestruck character like daemon over some tacky mind vision game
Heroes, what a throwback. That first season was unmatched
this actually wasn't a case of HBO stretching it out, it was them cutting it short. The season was written as 10 episodes, with episode 9 set to be the crazy battle at The Gullet, but Warner execs slashed budgets and cut the season by 2 episodes just before filming. Thus, our crazy episode 9 has been pushed to episode 1 of Season 3. That's why the season feels so ant-climactic.
Honestly, it's a terrible decision. Starting the war in season 3, episode 1 just won't work. By the time it airs, casual viewers will likely have forgotten the storyline, the characters, and even the reasons behind the war. All the subtle details that we remember now, which would make the experience more emotional, will be lost. I’d much prefer if they used episode 1 to show the marches, the sailings, and some smaller moments of drama so we can reconnect with the characters and rebuild that emotional attachment.
As a book reader I can assure you there's so many battles and interesting events that they can't possibly (I hope) use the next two seasons for filler if that's any reassurance to viewers but you definitely hit the nail on the head this season felt like another run up to war 😕
House of the politics got a bit too much democracy with everyone randomly being more pragmatic than the modern world, they keep on squabbling like a chess game making it so deep and seemingly suspensive that it's lacking action and sword fights like in the first couple seasons of GOT. Ruining a cool nervestruck character like Daemon over some stupid mind visions
I literally loved every episode except the finale. After that though, I'm starting to realize that the writers of the show are framing Rhaenyra to be the righteous one while Alicent gets released from any responsibility for starting this. Ultimately it's the men's fault, and I find that counter to the entire show leading up to it.
The point of Daemon being in Harrenhall is so that he can over come his personal desire for the crown and instead help Rhaenyra become queen
i think everyone got that. it was just executed poorly that made it seem like it was just going on and on forever
We didn't need a prophecy about white walkers for that, the scene with Paddy was enough.
Then make the character self realize that into existence. What they did instead was "I saw it in a vision it has to ve true"
They ruined 6 episodes of vision character growth only for him to do it because of a prophecy. Lame lazy writing.
@@govinddas7876 Daemon had to reject the crown so that he could believe the prophecy. If Daemon never had the visions he had, then based off what Daemon has done previously in the show, he wouldn’t have believed it and instead would want to still be on the throne instead of Rhaenyra.
@@Unknown-by6mr I just dont buy that. This felt like he changed his mind PURELY based on the prophecy. At least have some changes beforehand or something. But nope now he's just like Rhaenyra, doing it 'because it is what has to happen'
removes all agency from the characters when you make their entire motivation a prophecy.
Gotta get those episodes in. But those dragon episodes have to be verrrrrrry expensive. That’s my thought as to why it was 8 episodes. Shorter than normal, but still dragged out a bit.
Such unfair treatment of Aemond… he’s looked upon as the villain, yet he’s only defending his cause, as anyone should. He’s fighting a war his mother started yet being condemned for it. Also, giving Ewan 20 minutes total screen time is a crime, he’s easily one of the best actors on the show, the little breakdown after the chat with Helena was amazing. I hope they give him a lot more presence in s3 and a satisfying death (which they spoiled to everyone for some reason).
Yeah Alicent is afraid of Aemond because he burned down a village but didn't give 2 fucks when criston cole did the same or when her dad slaughtered all of Rhaenyra's supporters in kings landing. What a fucking hypocrite.
A 10 episode S2 would have fixed it. As later GOT seasons proved, shorter seasons just don’t work.
They way people talk about the Daemon plotline reminds of how people complained about Arya and The Hound spending an entire season just traveling. Just so impatient.
Man gtfoh no one was complaining about Arya and the hound. Nothing in that book when it comes to storyline was interesting.
@attiepollard7847 you can simply look up reviews and read the comments from back then. It's just funny in the end how it keeps happening. Also, I looked through your comments are you're an incel. So I'll just ignore you.
@@IamXhedo you read a review from 10 people out of a thousand. That's not a legitimate argument to tell you the truth.
@@IamXhedo boy you can't even spell incel so you don't even know what that means
@@attiepollard7847"yeah but not everyone said that", "you can't even spell", and calling people "boy". Grow up you man child. IamXhedo is right. Ignoring you seems to be the right move. So cry some more.
This is why I come back for Jeremy’s takes. He tells it how it is.
With so much crap on tv or streaming, I'd take the HOTD filler over lot's of other shows. I was still entertained.
Overall thought this season was very good, but suffered from the episode count dropping from 10 to 8. The finale was a really well done episode but would have probably worked better with the battle following it up and then ending the season on the aftermath. I’m glad they didn’t try to cram that all into 8 episodes though.
As someone who’s read the book, I think this pacing/setup from season 2 will pay off in the long run and it sets up seasons 3 and 4 perfectly.
It’s bad enough they wanna milk it. But to reveal Aemonds death this early? HBO got a lot of nerve.
Isn't Aemond still alive?
@@amagupt Until the gods eye. Didn’t you watch the episode?
@@Sonsofgod26 GoT had plenty of prophecies that go unfulfilled so the audience has reason to believe the same for the one about Aemond. Good job being a d**k to non-book readers, though.
They need that Almond Milk.
@@aln5494 Those prophecies are vague and ambiguous. This is clear as day. You don’t have to be a book reader to see the writing on the wall. Now go white knight somewhere else.
To me it seems that hbo is not going to give them the budget they need to do this story justice going forward as next season would have to have 6-7 battles in that would need to be massive
So basically. No Deadpool and Wolverine spoiler review ever. Message received lol
Still its no Acolyte or Zack Snyder cut, Rings of Power bullshit. Thanks to the show producers that made a well made product that didnt really have a payoff for the end.
I can’t agree with you with it being filler. I agree, the Daemon at Harrenhall was long stretched out but we did get decent payoff in the finale with that huge army. There was plenty of significance that happened from episode 4 onwards.
Glad you mentioned that about the penultimate episode being more action-packed. I noticed that too with GoT, so this show seems to be following that method.
Not a great finale, but still a good ep. I think it'll age well watching the series as a whole.
Iinm, it’s 4 seasons because GRRM wants it to be 4 seasons, and I’m pretty sure he wanted ten episodes each. And I’m really pretty sure at least some of the show runners and/or like, people at HBO have said they want to cut it down, which it seems like they already have with 8 episodes this season if that’s true.
About Daemon and Harrenhal, in the book he’s supposed to be sort of a foil to Aemond. They both super similar but daemon is more than twice his age and they’ve had different life experiences and circumstances, and made different choices because of that, I think they had so much Harrenhal stuff to show us why the battle above the gods eye plays out the way it does, that and to flesh out some old gods green magic stuff, imo
Maybe lay off the sauce Jeremy.
He’s wasted in nearly every episode
When the music started ramping up i was like no way is this over already
Nah, this story definitely needs 4 seasons. They're not stretching it out. Two seasons would have been way too rushed. I do agree that this season meandered a bit though, especially in the second half.
I completely agree. The first half was a little slow, but had a lot of Good stuff. Everything after that was me wondering when we were going to pick up the pace. Based on the actual action, this season was, as you said, a four-episode season, disguised as an eight-episode season. Also, thanks for the Heroes highlight. I forgot about that show and might go back and watch it. lol
I thought you were supposed to give honest reviews.
It fell off in the second part?
It was a piece of woke bullsh*t with horrendous writing in every single aspect, weak ass characters, dialogue and plot development. Seriously where do they get this writers from?
People should demand more from this shows and I cant understand how they just swallow this sh*t
And Jeremy I encorauge you to do better and have no fear of being cancelled and just say what it is man. Cause if somebody doesnt stand against this we’ll just keep getting the same thing every time. And I’m honestly tired of the propaganda, the wasted potential on fantastic universes and of never watching a truthfully meaningfull story
They killed the show with that woke shit
@@مشاريالتميمي-ي8ش when you got no brain you use words like 'woke'.
It's a classic book vs movie (TV) argument. In the book, time can pass for 1 character in just a few lines, and while it could pass on screen just as fast, it doesn't when you pay an actor that much money ro give up years of their lives for your show...they (actors and producers) will want the FaceTime with the audience.
I liked where the Daemon thing eventually went, but I thought it could also have been way shorter. I liked that the castle is cursed and was messing with him, I liked the werewood tree vision (and it may have been what was messing with him too).
There is a book theory that those trees contain a collective consciousness of countless souls of the Children of the Forest and some of the First Men who worshipped the old gods. The theory also goes on to include a "time traveling" Branden Stark who can project his consciousness through the trees and see and influence the world through them. (Which is why it was a big deal when the Andols cut them down in their war vs the Children and the First Men.) Those trees also messed with Sweet Robin, Bran's weird cousin from the Veil.
That said, I could have done with about 45 minutes less of Harren Hall...and maybe even added a 1 second clip of Bran in that vision or have the witch mentioned him once or twice ... as opposed to a very Freudian vision of Daemon's Mom. Admittedly though, I liked the parts with his brother King Visarys.
I loved the very quick glimpse of the 3 Eyed Crow at the start of that werewood vision...shows you that this is better written than D&D's GoT and that GRRM might have a bit more to do with it...which is why we will never get the end to those books.
There are many criticisms to have of the season, but my eyes were glued to every Daemon scene. He had to essentially be deconstructed and rebuilt as a character, and I don’t see that happening in two episodes.
The thing is, it's mostly not really filler (Daemon's storyline excluded) , it's BUILDUP and setting the board, it's all leading to things (bookreader here lol) but the problem is that it's setting up things that they didn't payoff this season. I had a really strong image in my mind where the season was going because (without spoiling anything) there are very interesting moments to come that they could have ended this season with. However it really just feels like this season was cut short because the dragon CGI is too expensive for HBO now, so it's almost like we literally got 8 out of 10 planned episodes. That said, as much as it frustrates me, season 3 should be really cool. It's just annoying we have to wait so long to get there...
I actually thought the payoff with Daemon was when he bends the knee and I loved it. I wanna rewatch season two now in it’s entirety and see how it is
It was, it felt like a huge weight was lifted off me when watching that
Yes! It's like this season's sole showrunner - Ryan C - wanted to punish Daemon's character & Matt Smith for being SO popular in the brilliant & superior season 1. Confine & segregate him from the other main characters by sending him on a draaawn out side quest. Smfh.
Just that title alone about sums it up.
The Deamon story was awesome. He had to learn the river lands and tge politics of building that army took time!