The winged cars were the perfect specimen. The King even said the wing acted like rudders on a plane, if the car started to slide in the rear, the air would hit the side and straighten the car back out.
Keep in mind that it is Bill Elliott that holds the record for the fastest NASCAR in a Ford Tbird number 9 at qualifying at Talladega with 212.80 MPH and backed that up with a qualifying run at Daytona of 210.364 MPH that same year with an unrestricted engine and those speeds were what NASCAR said were too fast which lead to restrictor plates to slow them down a little and those are average speeds around the track which means about 220 to 225 MPH on the straightaways.....WOW, loved watching NASCAR back then it was wild and crazy fast.
@kramnull8962 This is true. And after the run I heard that Rusty said it was all he could do to keep the car on the ground. He agreed with the restrictions after that run.
When the Fords won my buddy jumped up and kicked his chair over cursing the Fords. "They shouldn't even be on the track!!" As the finish order rolled, I rubbed it in a little, "Look at that, they blew up 15 Chevys trying to catch 3 Fords." LOL He went PURPLE!
another reason why nascar went to restrictor plates was because of bobby Allison's wreck into the catchfence at the 1987 talladega 500 whhen his engine blew sending shrapnel into his left rear tire causing it to blow, sending his car airborne into the catchfence. that crash alone almost ended nascar right then and there.
@@minenhledlamini334 well the road legal ones did, it still was close as a hemi engine was tested above 480hp. The nascar superbirds would probably be around 600hp i would think prehaps the statistic is wrong in game
I really wish I could have grown up watching those Superbirds out on the track. Actual car you could buy. Not just sheet metal over a cage. The best era in NASCAR
As a winged cars nerd, yes it could, and this video is kind of accurate as the Superbird needs some laps of being in the back because of acceleration (Tho it has around 700HP in real life) Also consider this Superbird mod is the restricted car, NASCAR put restrictor plates on winged cars in 1970 because the Daytona in 1969 shown that winged cars were too fast for other cars, and even with restrictions they were banned. So yea, insanely impressive
The restrictor plates were first used in 1988, before that, engines were ran unrestricted in every track. Don't know what the hell you're talking about, there was no restricting the engines before that. Nascar only mandated a displacement reduction in the 70's...
@@AndresSztaba they were introduced only for winged cars, and that’s the only times they were used, then no more until 88, however the car was still too fast and the regulations changed from 426 C.I. to 305 C.I. (It’s a car with around .27 drag with 700HP, you can clearly see that since it’s struggling to hit 310km/h is restricted)
@@Giugiu7077the 1988 NASCAR cars even with restrictor plates can still hit 220mph at Talladega. Dale Jarrett ever posted a lap speed of 215.344 mph in qualifying for 1992 NASCAR Winston 500.
@AndresSztaba nascar first mandated restrictor plates on August 16th 1970 at Michigan speedway, and all engines bigger than 366 cubic inches were restricted from that point until the big blocks were eliminated in 1974 different engines had different sizes of restrictor plates. The Ford boss 429 had the smallest, the mopar himi was slightly bigger, next was the Ford 427 wedge then the mopar 426 wedge and the Chevrolet 427 had the largest restrictor plates. Regardless of body style until 1971 when all areo cars were limited to 305 CID, super bird, Daytona, torino talladega, mercury cyclone spoilers, and even the 69 charger 500.Dick Brooks drove a 305 powered Daytona in the 71 Daytona 500, and that was the last time the areo cars ever ran. In 74 everyone switched to 366 CID until 1981 when the cars were down sized and engines were limited to 358 CID. No restrictor plates again until 1988.
Several comments from an old (71) long time NASCAR fan: 1- The Dodge Charger Daytonas and Plymouth Superbirds were 426 CID HEMI V-8 engines. 2- These were closer to stock than cars of today. There had to be at least 500 (or so) similar cars sold to the public. 3- Neither the Dodge Charger Daytona nor the Plymouth Superbird won the pole for the Daytona 500 - ever. 4- In 1971, 72 and 73 NASCAR allowed 358 CID V-8 unrestricted engines to be run against restricted 427 CID engines. This caused speeds to drop off from 1970 and earlier. 5- Since 1974 all NASCAR Cup engines were 358 CID. There have been various rule changes on engine specs since then, but the 358 CID remains. 6- The 1st driver to to exceed 200 MPH for the Daytona 500 pole was Cale Yarborough in 1984 in a Chevrolet running an unrestricted 358 CID engine (201.848 MPH). 7- The fastest Daytona 500 pole was set by Bill Elliott in an unrestricted 358 CID Ford at 210.364 MPH in 1987. 8- Since 1988 all Daytona and Talladega engines have been 358 CID using various sized restriction plates or tapered spacers to try to keep speeds under 200 MPH. 9- There was no such thing as "pack racing" or "superspeedway racing" before restrictor racing in 1988. 10- Finally, I believe that the cars of today, unrestricted, could probably top out at 220 MPH. At these speeds the force required to push thru the air would likely be the limiting factor with the 358 CID engine. Sims are interesting, but real life is more fun and more nuanced.
Fascinating stuff, very interesting, thank you much for all that information. Love reading these comments from passionate racing fans. Hope you enjoy Sunday's race. I simulated an unrestricted NASCAR Cup car at Talladega a few months ago, you might find this interesting: ua-cam.com/video/7kU8VRzh4hU/v-deo.html
OMG a youtube poster who actually KNOWS SOME FACTS............thank you........but the 71 engine rule was for 366 inches or less, not 358...........NASCAR knew Chrysler had a stock 360 and wanted to give them some slack.
It isn’t always slower in fact the cup car is usually faster paced because of it being flat out in xfinity tires mater way more and the extra horsepower makes for off throttle racing
I think it would be neat if Mr. Petty would let his cars do this for real, at Charlotte, Daytona, or Talladega. It would be fun to see how close the reality would be to the simulation, regardless of the outcome.
My brother was talking with Richard Petty in the pits at a race one day. Petty told him that they could have hit 265 mph in the Superbirds if NASCAR had let them. Note: NASCAR doesn't happen in kilometers per hour!
Those Hemis were making well north of 500 HP in 1970 - 425HP was the "Street Hemi" number and even that was well under what it made on the dyno. Mild tuning and a bigger carb could get 550HP on a street hemi. A NASCAR engine had to live 500 miles so 550 is probably a good guess of what Maurice Petty engine would make on the dyno.
The dyno I saw of a bluprinted 426 Hemi built to NASCAR specs was somewhere in the 7-800 hp range. I think that was from an article that compared the top NASCAR engines from the big block era. The 426 Hemi made the most power. The 427 Tunnel Port made the second most. The 427 Chevy was third. IDR what other engines they tested. I do remember wondering why they didn't build a 429 Boss.
around 1970 the Boss 429 made about 640-650 in nascar trim, the 426 hemi made about 630-635,the 427 chevy made 615-620 and the 427 ford tunnleport about 600 hp. the tunnleport was a wedge head while 427 chevy was a semi-hem with staggered valves and the boss was considered to be a hemi. this was according to Roger Huntington who a very respected and knowledgeable writer for car magazines back in that era.these h.p. figures were for un-restricted racing engines boss
I wanted to hear a beep beep when the Superbird passed the BowTie….😎 NASCAR will never put cars as beautiful as the Superbirds and Daytona Chargers on the tracks ever again. Long live the memories of the Winged Warriors! 👍🏻❤️😎
No, they used a 426 cui Wedge head engine. 7.0 liters was the limit back then. In 71 the wing cars were limited to a 5.0 liter engine which made them non-competative.
They lost me when it stopped being a "Stock Car" and became a spec car with different stickers. There used to be innovation that was made available to the public, engines, body style all were incorporated into a team. Yes you could have a few races where a team would dominate which pushed other car makers to innovate and push the bar further.
For me, as a spectator, the 60's and early 70's were the greatest time for stockcar/NASCAR racing. Because they still used actual production vehicles. But I don't today's drivers would agree with me though...
@@gzuzsavz how can you say that a 426 C.I. HEMI NASCAR engine produced 500HP? They literally hit 217 at Bonneville, it means at least 600-700HP, considering the car had only 4 gears, 1588kg and .279/28 of drag
Buddy Baker would be smiling from ear to ear . I loved this clip tremendous velocity , could you imagine how much fun that would be if you could drive that well.😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Camaros were never raced in NASCAR's premier categories. A NASCAR version of Chrysler's 426 Hemi was usually good for around 600 horsepower. This is not a useful comparison.
it's an interesting test but would be cool to see it taken further, like a non-restricted engine. I think where we'd see the biggest difference in on a short track or road course. The narrower, bias ply tires and rudimentary aero of the superbird would really struggle against the modern stock car. The modern aerodynamics are so much more efficient that the crew could heap on more downforce without the same drag sacrifice.
It's already lighter with more horsepower how much more advantage you figure it needs??? It's the torque of the big block that keeps digging Homer the small block bogs down dude???
They need to work on their sound for the hemi. Once you've heard the sound of a hemi bouncing off the walls coming out turn 4, you'll never forget it. Especially the dirt tracks with drivers like Ernie Deer or the hemi chargers USAC ran on mile dirt tracks late 60's, early 70s. Just nothing like them. It's like the same hearing the Pratt-Whitney engines they used in the heavy bombers in WWII. Nothing like a 1830 twin Wasp flying overhead for sound. Same with the old 426 hemi on the racetrack.
The young punks who know it all have never heard the sound of a field of big blocks with open headers coming down for the green, they would pee their pants..
Nope. When it comes to the 69-70 Aero wars, FoMoCo had 22 wins at the big tracks and Chrysler had 15. Superbird won 8, Daytona won 6, Charger 500 won 1, Cyclone won 8, Cobra won 3 and Talladega won 11. Overall, counting short tracks, it was very even with FoMoCo getting 37 wins and Chrysler getting 36.
No, they came in more around 520hp, but Chrysler never confirmed nor denied it, but I’ve rebuilt my own 426 engine from a nascar with all original parts and it came to about 502hp so I’m betting the average is about 520
@@Zoso55 Nope. 595 HP on a good day. Chrysler documents show 595 HP in testing so while you claim Chrysler never confirmed or denied it, you're just wrong and never looked for the documents I have.
I truly miss NASCAR period!!! NASCRAP took over when the 21st century started and NASCRAP car racing...(you can not call it "stock" car racing anymore...) came to be. Considering NASCAR use to compete with the NFL for spectator and TV ratings it is pretty easy to conclude that NASCRAP has run the sport into the ground. I think the WNBA gets more viewers.
I don't even have to watch, YES. A 70s car was all about how fast can you go. Since then it's been, what can we do to slow you down so it's safer. It started with the winged aerodynamic cars with the big motors. Nascar has become less and less enjoyable to watch over the years, especially the big highbank tracks were it now takes at least a full lap to get up to speed.
What was the second track? Another commenter said it's "old school Daytona track", but Daytona Int'l Speedway was built with the 31 degree banking it has today. Just curious. Also, it's worth noting that Dodge ran a very similar car the year before, in 1969, called the Charger Daytona. This car featured the pointed nosecone and a similar high wing design to the video's Plymouth Road Runner Superbird and had been banned for the 1970 year. In 1971, after the Plymouth had also been subject to restrictive rules changes, one team, K&K Racing, decided to take one of their Charger Daytonas to the Bonneville Salt Flats to see what the car would do on the salt. With driver Bobby Isaac, the 1970 championship winner, the car set a 28 records over four days, some of which still stand. The car set a flying mile record just shy of 217 miles per hour, or 349 kph for the rest of the world. The car was stock NASCAR specs, other than sitting a bit lower, and used a qualifying engine with low mileage. There are several articles and videos out there about this, and the car itself has been restored and lives at the International Motorsports Hall of Fame Museum in Talladega, Alabama, USA. (Edit: Technical error. Cars were not banned, only subjected to rules changes that rendered them far less competitive.)
No.. The Daytona was not banned for 1970.. It and all of the "aero" cars (Charger 500, Daytona, Superbird, Cyclone Spoiler, Torino Talladega) were limited to 305 CID from 1971 on.
@@Ziggy_Moonglow I bow to superior wisdom. I misread the phrase "effectively banned" to mean "banned". NASCAR changed the rules for these cars and there was at least one aero car running in 1971. Thank you for correcting me.
@@minenhledlamini334 Not even close, in single car runs they barely reach 180, and most get to 177/178 tops. As slim as they are, these cars are still big in terms of frontal area, the DESPERATELY NEED more power...
Noticed the 426 Hemi was only rated at 430 HP unrestricted....The production version was rated at 425 HP. I will guarantee that the race Hemi was WAY more than 430. Interesting video none the same.
cold be wrong but there is no way a 1970 Mopar Engine would turn 8,000 Rpm's. very cool simulator and the track with the stands the way they were back then?
You are correct. 7400 RPMs was pushing the end of the line for the 1970 Hemi. Documents mention transmission tests that had the cars hitting 7400 and advising against that transmission. The next set of documents talks about the teams that ran the 'blue stripe' transmission all had engine failures, due to running 7400 RPMs.
@@marcumexe a stock 426 hemi in a road legal supper bird was 425 hp and even those figures have always been questioned if chrysler where talking the numbers down to keep insurance companies and politicians of there back. Modern nascars have been sitting around the 700hp to 750hp range for the last 20 years I don't know why you think I must be a engine builder to this I am a mechanic and have had experience with building engines but this is more to do with knowledge of motor sport history this are numbers that are written down in books and articles on the subject go fact check if you don't believe me
I don't think NASCAR wants their cars flying into catchfences on their own again lol. That was the whole point of the restrictor plate. I think they should bump the power up for every track, it's unreasonable to literally choke the motors as much as they are.
In ‘86 or ‘87, Road & Track magazine arranged a top speed comparison between the Holbert/Bell Porsche 962 and the Harry Hyde crewed/ Tim Richmond driven Monte Carlo. Even my wife predicted the fastest: the 962 ran 227 or 230-something but Tim clocked 240 mph at the test track. 240. Look up the article. In that same era, Allison’s car lost a vibration damper in Talladega’s tri-oval, in a pack of cars. His AIRBORNE 3700 lb. car got into the fence and injured some spectators. I believe the saving grace was the facility had installed new fencing and mitigated injury and damage. Then the restrictor plate era began. Check out the earlier 1955 LeMans crash. NASCAR is not afraid of speed’s potential, but respectful. If they can provide a sensational “show” with close competition (they do) and meet their underwriter’s performance criteria, racing will continue. The consequences of extreme speed are sobering for ALL sanctioning bodies.
What you have to remember is that NASCAR began restrictions after some pretty horrific accidents. While it's true that they restricted the aero cars to 305 cubic inches (too bad flat-plane cranks weren't thought of) the speeds kept creeping up and the wrecks kept getting worse until today. Today we have the "Car of Tomorrow", basically a glorified IROC car. Innovation isn't rewarded, it's penalized. I stopped watching after Dodge walked away after not only being banned from using the new Hemi but banned from advertising the Hemi word on the cars.
Those winged Hemi cars made a lot closer to 600 horsepower than 430. 430 would be a stock production road car rating. Bobby Allison claimed 600 was “quite low” compared to the 600 estimation.
To the “wing cars weren’t that special” crowd….they were the first to break 200mph. Bill France obviously saw the writing on the wall…that had these cars been giving another season or two to be developed a little further, not only would they have completely dominated the large oval tracks but all the other car companies would’ve copied them….they had really already started.
What's your favorite decade in NASCAR?
First reply!
The 2010's
1970 has better-looking cars, but I love the sound of modern stock cars
Gen 4
90s(early 90s particular) was the best in my opinion.
For all the years of racing sims and they STILL can't get the sound right. That 70's car sounds like a two stroke outboard motor.
The real race Hemi has a great sound.
@@lisam4503 I bet!
It’s pretty pathetic.
@@gasmanoav RIGHT?!
they don't ever get power or handling right either, Simulation can only do so much
The winged cars were the perfect specimen. The King even said the wing acted like rudders on a plane, if the car started to slide in the rear, the air would hit the side and straighten the car back out.
I wish Gen 7 NASCAR cars have rear wings like 1970 Superbird.
@@purwantiallan5089the SRX cars do in a way
The Charger Daytona and Superbird Road Runner had a 0.28 drag coefficient, which is very impressive at the time.
Who the fuck put this in kilometers!!
THANK YOU !!!@@johngeary8534
Keep in mind that it is Bill Elliott that holds the record for the fastest NASCAR in a Ford Tbird number 9 at qualifying at Talladega with 212.80 MPH and backed that up with a qualifying run at Daytona of 210.364 MPH that same year with an unrestricted engine and those speeds were what NASCAR said were too fast which lead to restrictor plates to slow them down a little and those are average speeds around the track which means about 220 to 225 MPH on the straightaways.....WOW, loved watching NASCAR back then it was wild and crazy fast.
Yep those were the best days of nascar imo
They say Rusty Wallace took a Pontiac unrestricted 230 top speed at Talladega. I think they were using the 4.125" 400 blocks then that helped a lot.
@kramnull8962 This is true. And after the run I heard that Rusty said it was all he could do to keep the car on the ground. He agreed with the restrictions after that run.
When the Fords won my buddy jumped up and kicked his chair over cursing the Fords. "They shouldn't even be on the track!!"
As the finish order rolled, I rubbed it in a little, "Look at that, they blew up 15 Chevys trying to catch 3 Fords." LOL He went PURPLE!
another reason why nascar went to restrictor plates was because of bobby Allison's wreck into the catchfence at the 1987 talladega 500 whhen his engine blew sending shrapnel into his left rear tire causing it to blow, sending his car airborne into the catchfence. that crash alone almost ended nascar right then and there.
Unrestricted will beat restricted every day
Which is funny considering the Superbird had less than 500 hp
@@minenhledlamini334 well the road legal ones did, it still was close as a hemi engine was tested above 480hp. The nascar superbirds would probably be around 600hp i would think
prehaps the statistic is wrong in game
Until the engines blew.
@@minenhledlamini334 AERO DYNAMICS BABY
@@highoctanegames Then the IRL 43 Superbird thats kept in a garage somehow had 700 bhp, which is either false info or real.
Pretty cool that you also include the old school Daytona track.
Old Daytona kinda reminded me a lot to NASCAR RACING PS1 game again.😢
Yeah.. but it had SAFER barriers?
Was it that terrible on banking transitions though?
I really wish I could have grown up watching those Superbirds out on the track. Actual car you could buy. Not just sheet metal over a cage. The best era in NASCAR
As a winged cars nerd, yes it could, and this video is kind of accurate as the Superbird needs some laps of being in the back because of acceleration
(Tho it has around 700HP in real life) Also consider this Superbird mod is the restricted car, NASCAR put restrictor plates on winged cars in 1970 because the Daytona in 1969 shown that winged cars were too fast for other cars, and even with restrictions they were banned. So yea, insanely impressive
The restrictor plates were first used in 1988, before that, engines were ran unrestricted in every track. Don't know what the hell you're talking about, there was no restricting the engines before that. Nascar only mandated a displacement reduction in the 70's...
@@AndresSztaba they were introduced only for winged cars, and that’s the only times they were used, then no more until 88, however the car was still too fast and the regulations changed from 426 C.I. to 305 C.I.
(It’s a car with around .27 drag with 700HP, you can clearly see that since it’s struggling to hit 310km/h is restricted)
@@Giugiu7077the 1988 NASCAR cars even with restrictor plates can still hit 220mph at Talladega. Dale Jarrett ever posted a lap speed of 215.344 mph in qualifying for 1992 NASCAR Winston 500.
@@purwantiallan5089that’s because they engineered what we can call “solutions” to get around the restrictor plate restrictions lol
@AndresSztaba nascar first mandated restrictor plates on August 16th 1970 at Michigan speedway, and all engines bigger than 366 cubic inches were restricted from that point until the big blocks were eliminated in 1974 different engines had different sizes of restrictor plates. The Ford boss 429 had the smallest, the mopar himi was slightly bigger, next was the Ford 427 wedge then the mopar 426 wedge and the Chevrolet 427 had the largest restrictor plates. Regardless of body style until 1971 when all areo cars were limited to 305 CID, super bird, Daytona, torino talladega, mercury cyclone spoilers, and even the 69 charger 500.Dick Brooks drove a 305 powered Daytona in the 71 Daytona 500, and that was the last time the areo cars ever ran. In 74 everyone switched to 366 CID until 1981 when the cars were down sized and engines were limited to 358 CID. No restrictor plates again until 1988.
Several comments from an old (71) long time NASCAR fan:
1- The Dodge Charger Daytonas and Plymouth Superbirds were 426 CID HEMI V-8 engines.
2- These were closer to stock than cars of today. There had to be at least 500 (or so) similar cars sold to the public.
3- Neither the Dodge Charger Daytona nor the Plymouth Superbird won the pole for the Daytona 500 - ever.
4- In 1971, 72 and 73 NASCAR allowed 358 CID V-8 unrestricted engines to be run against restricted 427 CID engines. This caused speeds to drop off from 1970 and earlier.
5- Since 1974 all NASCAR Cup engines were 358 CID. There have been various rule changes on engine specs since then, but the 358 CID remains.
6- The 1st driver to to exceed 200 MPH for the Daytona 500 pole was Cale Yarborough in 1984 in a Chevrolet running an unrestricted 358 CID engine (201.848 MPH).
7- The fastest Daytona 500 pole was set by Bill Elliott in an unrestricted 358 CID Ford at 210.364 MPH in 1987.
8- Since 1988 all Daytona and Talladega engines have been 358 CID using various sized restriction plates or tapered spacers to try to keep speeds under 200 MPH.
9- There was no such thing as "pack racing" or "superspeedway racing" before restrictor racing in 1988.
10- Finally, I believe that the cars of today, unrestricted, could probably top out at 220 MPH. At these speeds the force required to push thru the air would likely be the limiting factor with the 358 CID engine.
Sims are interesting, but real life is more fun and more nuanced.
Fascinating stuff, very interesting, thank you much for all that information. Love reading these comments from passionate racing fans. Hope you enjoy Sunday's race. I simulated an unrestricted NASCAR Cup car at Talladega a few months ago, you might find this interesting: ua-cam.com/video/7kU8VRzh4hU/v-deo.html
Yeah, but Buddy Baker did go 200 IN the Daytona in ‘69. Just wasn’t AT Daytona.
RIP to Cale, always liked that guy a lot
OMG a youtube poster who actually KNOWS SOME FACTS............thank you........but the 71 engine rule was for 366 inches or less, not 358...........NASCAR knew Chrysler had a stock 360 and wanted to give them some slack.
I wish nascar would up the hp kinda ridiculous how the cup car is slower than the xfinity car
Definitely. On qualifying pace, even Gen 7 Cup Cars lapped 0.198 slower than 2020s NASCAR TRUCK SERIES Cars.
Yeah that's a bit weird, same at the intermediate tracks between 2019 and 2021
It isn’t always slower in fact the cup car is usually faster paced because of it being flat out in xfinity tires mater way more and the extra horsepower makes for off throttle racing
@@justwiz4879 I’m just talking about overall speed the next gen can brake and corner much better than xfinity pretty sure anyway
@@JayStephens8 yes your correct overall the xfinity car is faster in terms of speed but the cup car corners faster
Nothing beats Nascar of the Aero Wars in 1969-'70 season and mid 1980s.
Bill Elliot with his 1987 Ford Thunderbird would be like
"Hold my beer" 😆😉
He drove the Coors car, how ironic 😂
And Wallace did a test at 242 at ‘Dega. Tires lasted two laps
I think it would be neat if Mr. Petty would let his cars do this for real, at Charlotte, Daytona, or Talladega. It would be fun to see how close the reality would be to the simulation, regardless of the outcome.
Alternative Title: The King Vs Lightning McQueen
430 HP for the superbird? That would get the engine builder fired in 1970 😮
And 1963! The 426 Wedge was pulling 480 HP in 1963!
the dinoco chopper in the background is a nice touch
Glad someone saw it!
My brother was talking with Richard Petty in the pits at a race one day. Petty told him that they could have hit 265 mph in the Superbirds if NASCAR had let them. Note: NASCAR doesn't happen in kilometers per hour!
Those Hemis were making well north of 500 HP in 1970 - 425HP was the "Street Hemi" number and even that was well under what it made on the dyno. Mild tuning and a bigger carb could get 550HP on a street hemi. A NASCAR engine had to live 500 miles so 550 is probably a good guess of what Maurice Petty engine would make on the dyno.
And 425hp street wasn't true, a friend of mine has a 426 wedge that is listed @425hp. It's dynoed at 502hp
The dyno I saw of a bluprinted 426 Hemi built to NASCAR specs was somewhere in the 7-800 hp range. I think that was from an article that compared the top NASCAR engines from the big block era. The 426 Hemi made the most power. The 427 Tunnel Port made the second most. The 427 Chevy was third. IDR what other engines they tested. I do remember wondering why they didn't build a 429 Boss.
around 1970 the Boss 429 made about 640-650 in nascar trim, the 426 hemi made about 630-635,the 427 chevy made 615-620 and the 427 ford tunnleport about 600 hp. the tunnleport was a wedge head while 427 chevy was a semi-hem with staggered valves and the boss was considered to be a hemi. this was according to Roger Huntington who a very respected and knowledgeable writer for car magazines back in that era.these h.p. figures were for un-restricted racing engines
boss
-- The did that, smartly, so it'd fall into a lower insurance bracket. @@dangarrison3503
595 HP on a good day. Chrysler documents 595 HP as the highest HP and it's listed as a 'test' engine.
The King Strip Weathers :D
The old blue car, kids, was our childhood
The King, the one and only Strip Weathers
Doesn't matter if you're 65 or 20 😂
@@KitKitChanIsaacno, It’s Richard Petty, the King of Nascar in real life, the voice of Strip weathers, and the driver of the car the king is based on.
I wanted to hear a beep beep when the Superbird passed the BowTie….😎 NASCAR will never put cars as beautiful as the Superbirds and Daytona Chargers on the tracks ever again.
Long live the memories of the Winged Warriors! 👍🏻❤️😎
Those cars do not even make the field in the 80's.
This should definitely convince Nascar to boost the next gen’s horsepower.
Yeah make them have 1100hp
@@rctd3260no, 950.
@@rctd3260 😮
@@rctd3260 that's a bit too much i think
@@OlivierMoisan-um2ln well they already have like 900 I think
Don't forget that the Superbird had that amazing 426 Hemi in it!
Nope. 426 Hemi was banned from NASCAR in 1965.
@@afastcuda1970 after an image search, they must have been lying for printing 426ci on the hood
No, they used a 426 cui Wedge head engine. 7.0 liters was the limit back then. In 71 the wing cars were limited to a 5.0 liter engine which made them non-competative.
a few days ago I had a question half LOL
Could an F1 from the 50s/60s or 70s beat a current street car?
I would say absolutely from the 70s when aero was starting to get well developed, 50/60s not so sure…
How about a comparison between an F1 car from one of those eras vs. a modern F2 car?
@@El_JFS The same I was thinking, the 50s I think will be an absolute win for the road car, the 60s and 70s is the doubt
@@El_JFS from the 80s and forward i think is an easy win for the F1
@@getnaenaed4222 that question is more normal than mine jajaja
You don't know how bad I want to see someone actually do this test on the track.
They lost me when it stopped being a "Stock Car" and became a spec car with different stickers. There used to be innovation that was made available to the public, engines, body style all were incorporated into a team. Yes you could have a few races where a team would dominate which pushed other car makers to innovate and push the bar further.
That was awesome. You should do. The Porsche 963 vs 917 with the LeMans Chicane. And without.
962
What about: 962 vs 911 GT1 vs 911 GT3RS.
Thank you buddy! Definitely doing it!
@@purwantiallan5089 the 911 gt1 is a 962 under the bodywork so it would be a good fight
For me, as a spectator, the 60's and early 70's were the greatest time for stockcar/NASCAR racing. Because they still used actual production vehicles.
But I don't today's drivers would agree with me though...
I don’t know who did this mod but the Superbird had like 650 to 700HP, 430 is the street car lol
close. the street Hemi made 425 hp at 5200 rpm. the engine made pwr to 6100 rpm, at which point it made 490 hp.
@@gzuzsavz how can you say that a 426 C.I. HEMI NASCAR engine produced 500HP? They literally hit 217 at Bonneville, it means at least 600-700HP, considering the car had only 4 gears, 1588kg and .279/28 of drag
@@Giugiu7077 i didn't. i said street hemi.
the street hemi definitely made 500 hp easy
@@torrieaccardi5079You still owe me a ten second car !!
You could buy a close copy of a Plymouth Superbird next day at the dealership. You can't buy a Next Generation NASCAR at any dealership today!
And then there was Rusty’s 2004 tire test…
That's pretty darn cool! And I'm not even a NASCAR fan, but that is a great video!!
Thank you buddy!
Buddy Baker would be smiling from ear to ear . I loved this clip tremendous velocity , could you imagine how much fun that would be if you could drive that well.😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Camaros were never raced in NASCAR's premier categories. A NASCAR version of Chrysler's 426 Hemi was usually good for around 600 horsepower. This is not a useful comparison.
it's an interesting test but would be cool to see it taken further, like a non-restricted engine. I think where we'd see the biggest difference in on a short track or road course. The narrower, bias ply tires and rudimentary aero of the superbird would really struggle against the modern stock car. The modern aerodynamics are so much more efficient that the crew could heap on more downforce without the same drag sacrifice.
The modern car would destroy the Superbird on any race track otside tge superspeedways. Without even being unrestricted
It's already lighter with more horsepower how much more advantage you figure it needs??? It's the torque of the big block that keeps digging Homer the small block bogs down dude???
Loved those winged warriors, Baker, Petty, Hamilton, Issac, Glotzbach, Allison.
Nothing can stop "The King" of _THE_ KING.
NASCAR implemented air flow restrictor plates in 1970 -for safety.
Maybe. We’ll probably not know but they sure looked better in the 60s and 70s
Back in the day the Hemi only ran 7,200rpms..... It had way more hp than you are giving. We pulled a much higher gear than today's car.
now remove the gen 7 restrictor plate and see it go 220 - 230 mph
Oh it would be faster than that in the draft if you also cut down the spoiler
😉 ua-cam.com/video/7kU8VRzh4hU/v-deo.html
@@THEWINDTUNNEL thank you
They need to work on their sound for the hemi. Once you've heard the sound of a hemi bouncing off the walls coming out turn 4, you'll never forget it. Especially the dirt tracks with drivers like Ernie Deer or the hemi chargers USAC ran on mile dirt tracks late 60's, early 70s. Just nothing like them. It's like the same hearing the Pratt-Whitney engines they used in the heavy bombers in WWII. Nothing like a 1830 twin Wasp flying overhead for sound. Same with the old 426 hemi on the racetrack.
The young punks who know it all have never heard the sound of a field of big blocks with open headers coming down for the green, they would pee their pants..
The only thing a super bird cannot beat is a green hitler car
That joke was terrible even for a movie reference
No, the king still whooped Chick’s ass
NASCAR isn’t the same today. Haven’t watched it in years
The Superbird was an absolute beast. Thus wasn't a competition, it was a slaughter.
Nope. When it comes to the 69-70 Aero wars, FoMoCo had 22 wins at the big tracks and Chrysler had 15. Superbird won 8, Daytona won 6, Charger 500 won 1, Cyclone won 8, Cobra won 3 and Talladega won 11. Overall, counting short tracks, it was very even with FoMoCo getting 37 wins and Chrysler getting 36.
That a 70s Bird Or Dodge Daytona can beat the modern cars confirm the nanny state we live in.
The 1970s nascar bird had just around 600 hp
No, they came in more around 520hp, but Chrysler never confirmed nor denied it, but I’ve rebuilt my own 426 engine from a nascar with all original parts and it came to about 502hp so I’m betting the average is about 520
@@Zoso55 Nope. 595 HP on a good day. Chrysler documents show 595 HP in testing so while you claim Chrysler never confirmed or denied it, you're just wrong and never looked for the documents I have.
Could the exhaust sound any worse? Pretty sure the hemi never sounded like a 6 cylinder with a hole in the muffler.
Too bad you weren't around to hear them then you would understand that you have no clue..
@@marcumexe fake exhaust noise on an EV is right up there with fake hood scoops that don't actually vent. Lame and a waste of time.
Great video, I Think every gen of nascar car beats the current one... but i think the 80's car was the crazyest to drive....
430hp for the Superbird😂 right…
430hp for the Superbird? Did you take out two sparkplugs???
I truly miss NASCAR racing WITHOUT restrictor plates. Fast and fun to watch.
I truly miss NASCAR period!!! NASCRAP took over when the 21st century started and NASCRAP car racing...(you can not call it "stock" car racing anymore...) came to be. Considering NASCAR use to compete with the NFL for spectator and TV ratings it is pretty easy to conclude that NASCRAP has run the sport into the ground. I think the WNBA gets more viewers.
I don't even have to watch, YES. A 70s car was all about how fast can you go. Since then it's been, what can we do to slow you down so it's safer. It started with the winged aerodynamic cars with the big motors. Nascar has become less and less enjoyable to watch over the years, especially the big highbank tracks were it now takes at least a full lap to get up to speed.
Now do them on a road course :)
Bring them to Mars???
The Superbird must have a restricted 2 barrel carburetor, and single stock exhaust.
What was the second track? Another commenter said it's "old school Daytona track", but Daytona Int'l Speedway was built with the 31 degree banking it has today. Just curious.
Also, it's worth noting that Dodge ran a very similar car the year before, in 1969, called the Charger Daytona. This car featured the pointed nosecone and a similar high wing design to the video's Plymouth Road Runner Superbird and had been banned for the 1970 year. In 1971, after the Plymouth had also been subject to restrictive rules changes, one team, K&K Racing, decided to take one of their Charger Daytonas to the Bonneville Salt Flats to see what the car would do on the salt. With driver Bobby Isaac, the 1970 championship winner, the car set a 28 records over four days, some of which still stand. The car set a flying mile record just shy of 217 miles per hour, or 349 kph for the rest of the world. The car was stock NASCAR specs, other than sitting a bit lower, and used a qualifying engine with low mileage. There are several articles and videos out there about this, and the car itself has been restored and lives at the International Motorsports Hall of Fame Museum in Talladega, Alabama, USA.
(Edit: Technical error. Cars were not banned, only subjected to rules changes that rendered them far less competitive.)
It's a 1970 version of Daytona. Way bumpier and with less grip. Awesome story that one, seen a couple videos/documentaries about it
@@THEWINDTUNNEL Thank you!
No.. The Daytona was not banned for 1970.. It and all of the "aero" cars (Charger 500, Daytona, Superbird, Cyclone Spoiler, Torino Talladega) were limited to 305 CID from 1971 on.
@@Ziggy_Moonglow I bow to superior wisdom. I misread the phrase "effectively banned" to mean "banned". NASCAR changed the rules for these cars and there was at least one aero car running in 1971. Thank you for correcting me.
The Dodge had a sloped back glass which made it slipperier.
Take the plates off and see who really wants to go fast
The torque makes the difference, Homer..
Next gen can’t even crack 185 mph 💔
They do that consistently at the super speedways and most of mile and half tracks. Their lap times aren't that far off of the Gen 6 lap times.
@@BaronOBeefDip when in the draft, during single car runs the cars can only get to 184 mph
@@minenhledlamini334 Not even close, in single car runs they barely reach 180, and most get to 177/178 tops. As slim as they are, these cars are still big in terms of frontal area, the DESPERATELY NEED more power...
@@minenhledlamini334 You're worried about non-race speeds?
@@BaronOBeefDip this vid just showed a lone gen 7 vs a lone superbird, what I said was in relation to that occurrence
The 70’s daytona was WAY faster then that.
Whats the song at the start im begging you
Noticed the 426 Hemi was only rated at 430 HP unrestricted....The production version was rated at 425 HP. I will guarantee that the race Hemi was WAY more than 430. Interesting video none the same.
430HP is the street legal car, the racecar had around 600HP
On "Nick's Garage" he easily gets 550 out of a 426 Hemi!
I think it was some time in the late 80's they let Bill Elliott run an unrestricted car at Daytona and he was running 230 something.
In a video game anything can happen! It would also take a driver with balls of steel. None of those left anymore!
Baloney! Production 426 Hemi cars made way more than 430 horsepower!
around 490 they didn't want insurance companies to know that.
@@bultacowally maybe more. The NASCAR Hemis probably made 800.
@@denniseaton8136 Nope.. 595 HP on a good day.
You must be an engine builder, right???
cold be wrong but there is no way a 1970 Mopar Engine would turn 8,000 Rpm's. very cool simulator and the track with the stands the way they were back then?
You are correct. 7400 RPMs was pushing the end of the line for the 1970 Hemi. Documents mention transmission tests that had the cars hitting 7400 and advising against that transmission. The next set of documents talks about the teams that ran the 'blue stripe' transmission all had engine failures, due to running 7400 RPMs.
you're going restricted against unrestricted, take the plate off the camaro....
My name is Rick Simpson and I'm living in Columbus Ohio I used to own a 77 LT 4 speed bored over 30 308 gears
Hi...my name is Forest....Forest Gump. Stupid is as stupid does sir.....
FINALLY
Make them use the same pit crews and pit supplies they used back then.
If the 70's car makes it 500 miles, it might win
That would be very interesting
Poor lost soul???
fyi the old race hemi was underrated at that 410 hp by about 130 hp. it was a mean machine. miss those days.
That is why 340 Dusters used to beat Hemi cars, right??? They were not very popular back then..
Chick Hicks: I am not coming behind again you old man! *rams King*
richard petty casually walks into a dodge/plymouth dealship and picks out his race car from the floor and wins the race...probably happened
I want to see #6, #11, #5, on the Daytona track against a race prepped Dodge Daytona and Bill Elliott's Ford Thunderbird for a 10 lap shoot out.
The superbird is slow to start, but when the move they can really move
No governor on that old beast, but amazing that it took til the last lap to start catching up.
Not if you take the restrictor plate off.
Power figures where a bit low I'm pretty sure the the super birds where closser to 600hp and nascar are pushing past 700hp
You must have been an engine builder, right???
@@marcumexe a stock 426 hemi in a road legal supper bird was 425 hp and even those figures have always been questioned if chrysler where talking the numbers down to keep insurance companies and politicians of there back.
Modern nascars have been sitting around the 700hp to 750hp range for the last 20 years I don't know why you think I must be a engine builder to this I am a mechanic and have had experience with building engines but this is more to do with knowledge of motor sport history this are numbers that are written down in books and articles on the subject go fact check if you don't believe me
"It's not the car ! It's the pilot in the box !"
No reason modern day nascars shouldn’t be able to do 200mph at Daytona by itself
I don't think NASCAR wants their cars flying into catchfences on their own again lol. That was the whole point of the restrictor plate. I think they should bump the power up for every track, it's unreasonable to literally choke the motors as much as they are.
Well, I think the reason is for safety although it would be nice to up the HP for all non superspeedways.
Would be awesome but a 1.5 ton car flying at 215 mph into a catch fence doesn't sound like a good idea though...
In ‘86 or ‘87, Road & Track magazine arranged a top speed comparison between the Holbert/Bell Porsche 962 and the Harry Hyde crewed/ Tim Richmond driven Monte Carlo. Even my wife predicted the fastest: the 962 ran 227 or 230-something but Tim clocked 240 mph at the test track. 240. Look up the article. In that same era, Allison’s car lost a vibration damper in Talladega’s tri-oval, in a pack of cars. His AIRBORNE 3700 lb. car got into the fence and injured some spectators. I believe the saving grace was the facility had installed new fencing and mitigated injury and damage. Then the restrictor plate era began. Check out the earlier 1955 LeMans crash. NASCAR is not afraid of speed’s potential, but respectful. If they can provide a sensational “show” with close competition (they do) and meet their underwriter’s performance criteria, racing will continue. The consequences of extreme speed are sobering for ALL sanctioning bodies.
At least back in the day, they were real cars! Now, they are all the same...kinda like go carts!
I love dinoco
But don't forget it.. Dinoco's all mine!!!
@@THEWINDTUNNEL thunder always comes after lightning kachow!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
whats the song at the start?
The Daytona 500 qualifying speed record is Bill Elliott's 1987 TBird at 210 mph. that was with a 351 Cleveland engine.
Bill said at 210 mph I'm going out there, but I don't know if I'll be comming back.
I truly miss the racing of cars that the public could actually go down to the dealership and purchase.
Honestly, i wonder what its like a 2024 NASCAR Cup Car, with the 2014 engine specs. (Both power, AND SOUND.)
*That would be an unforgettable show.*
It would be so awesome if this happened in real life.
Bill Elliott's 1985 car with easily beat them running 212.00 mpr
😂😂😂 STP TIME
What you have to remember is that NASCAR began restrictions after some pretty horrific accidents. While it's true that they restricted the aero cars to 305 cubic inches (too bad flat-plane cranks weren't thought of) the speeds kept creeping up and the wrecks kept getting worse until today.
Today we have the "Car of Tomorrow", basically a glorified IROC car. Innovation isn't rewarded, it's penalized.
I stopped watching after Dodge walked away after not only being banned from using the new Hemi but banned from advertising the Hemi word on the cars.
YEP, F nascar AND WHO CAME BACK AFTER 25 YEAR PROTEST....#9 DODGE BILL WAS BEST OF ALL AND HIS TALLIE RECORD STILL STANDS!!
@@velocity5918 The news that NASCAR is courting Honda is just another reason to not watch.
Those winged Hemi cars made a lot closer to 600 horsepower than 430. 430 would be a stock production road car rating. Bobby Allison claimed 600 was “quite low” compared to the 600 estimation.
To the “wing cars weren’t that special” crowd….they were the first to break 200mph. Bill France obviously saw the writing on the wall…that had these cars been giving another season or two to be developed a little further, not only would they have completely dominated the large oval tracks but all the other car companies would’ve copied them….they had really already started.
Wing cars will always have my bias
Bill Elliott still has the speed record of 212 mph set in 1987 at Talladega.
You damn right!
Those were true racing days before restrictions. Run what ya’ brought
If you put a Richard Petty or a David Pearson in it these drivers now couldn't handle it.
We had 426 hemis with the newest head making nearly 780 to 800 at 7500 to 8000 rpm on dynos in north carolina.
you should compare a 2000's impala with a 1980's thunderbird