Patience? Vader was breathing down the neck of every officer and demanded quick results. Otherwise he would've killed them instantly. This fear and panic most likely compelled many Imperial Officers to commit to a poorly planned and executed offensive, which was intended to producea quick and very presentable victory to boost their reputation and prevent a slow and painful death. It was really Vader who failed at Hoth. He never set any meaningful plans, immediately killed one of the Imperial admirals and didn't do anything on Hoth except lumber through the corridors of Echo Base and slaugher Rebel stragglers. He didn't plan a good offensive and didn't prevent any of the key personell from escaping.
And don't forget Vader probably didn't want to kill Luke, whom he had just learned was his son. It's possible that the Imperials had a much better plan before Vader learned that particular fact at the last minute...
Those key personnel were able to escape because they had enough time to organize one due to the incompetence of Admiral Ozzel, who Vader then killed. And what else could Vader do besides lumber around? The empire was just barely storming the base, and by that time the rebels had escaped.
It's actually hard to tell what Vader wanted at the time. When they dropped out of Hyper-Space, Vader was informed of the shield and said they dropped too close. One of the admirals blatantly disobeyed him. I think Vader wanted to slowly move in and starve them out. That could've given him prisoners and information about other rebel bases and forces. Then deliver Luke to the Emperor.
I personally subscribe to the theory that Ozzel was either a rebel spy or sympathizer. First, he tries to dismiss the evidence of the rebel base, arguing it's probably just smugglers, and only goes to Hoth once Vader insists and it is inevitable. Then, Ozzel comes out of hyperspace early, allowing the Rebels to detect Death Squandron and bring up their shields and begin an evacuation. This allowed the rebels to survive, along with most of the high command, and live to fight another day. Sure Imperial officers are often incompetent, but Ozzel is next level, every decision he makes hinders the Empire's attack. It would actually make more sense if he was making these mistakes on purpose.
True, and his obsession with capturing him would get him killed, but it did give Luke time to prepare for his training as a Jedi, and Obi-Wan being reminded that there's still good in him, something that Luke knew when he was born. Before Padme died, those first words he heard from her dying mouth is that She knows there's still good in Anakin (Darth Vader), and it's proven when the Rebels destroyed the second Death Star, Vader, redeeming himself to send the Emperor crashing down into the shaft, and saving his son's life.
The Tarkin doctrine is probably the biggest culprit here. Most of these other strategies make sense and would be very viable but doesnt exude the "imperial might" quite as well as a bunch of stompy seemingly invincible mechs moving on your base.
I honestly don't see how it affected anything. Like what would/could he have done any differently? If his officers (aside from veers) had followed his orders things would have gone fine. He ordered Ozzel to sneak up on them, he didn't. Before he left the ship he ordered the fleet to stop anyone from leaving the system. The fleet just....didn't.
i Tqzy, in a way they are like nazis. The have red, white, and black in their flags, they conquer a lot of places, they oppress their citizens, they didn't like a group of people because of their religion and killed them, their leader made bad decisions was arrogant. A lot of people compare the Empire to the Nazis. And btw, it was a joke dumbass
Airsoft Gamers "they oppress their citizens, they didn't like a group of people because of their religion and killed them, their leader made bad decisions was arrogant" sounds like the US lmao
Well The empire was based off of the Third Reich To say that the USA (Systematically) Opresses their citizens is not correct, the US does not (Systematically) dislike a group of people because of a religion (If you are speaking of Islam then you can hardly blame them, Islamic followers blew up a major monument and plenty of leaders of plenty of nations are arrogant.
ISIS has nothing to do with islam, their leaders only use the religion to brainwash them, like all the other religious terrorist organizations in the world.
Not to mention the COC of the empire was filled with people who shouldn't be in those positions people who have never seen a battle field in their life they gor there position due to bribery or flat out cheating
Throughout the entire Rebels vs Empire saga just about every Imperial officer's command decision was, lets face it, written in such a way to Let the terrori- I mean the freedom fighters win. No officer in their right mind would open such a vitally important shield bunker in the middle of a battle with enemy commandos running around all over the damn place just because some low ranking AT-ST driver says so. The commander of the air wing on the DS at the battle of Yavin is not sending out 6 Tie fighters to deal with 30. Their going to send out 600 to completely overwhelm and crush the scu- freedom loving "heros" . The Empire itself is not going to assign 2 lowly ISDs to guard one of the most critically important planets in the entire Empire (Scarif). Their assigning a fleet. And to beat the "Oh but the Empire was filled with such incompetents" I say a resounding NO. No government could continue functioning for more than 6 months with such incompetent ppl in charge. Plus of course Plot armor. Tons and tons and tons of Plot armor. Ugg. Long live the Empire.
In regards to the “send all the TIE Bomber and TIE Fighters you’ve got,” it wouldn’t actually work because as observed in “Empire at War,” bombing runs are ineffective against base shields, even orbital bombardment is ineffective as General Veers puts it. “Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area of the sixth planet in the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.” Even _Force Commander_ has a general say “We would simply bomb the base, but the Rebels have established a shield around it [the base].” Apparently, not only is the field resistant against energy weapons, but against fast moving solid objects. As established in Episode I, it appears that slow moving objects are able to penetrate the shields as well as objects that have contact with the ground, which was probably why the MTTs nor the AATs could bypass the Gungan shields. Another reason why Vader wanted to attack immediately was because he wanted Luke Skywalker, to convert him over to the Dark Side of the Force, so he could neither risk killing him nor give him any time to escape. There was also the Millennium Falcon and Luke’s allies. As evidenced in the DLC of _The Force Unleashed_, Lord Starkiller managed to use the Force to hold the Falcon hostage in order to tempt Luke to the Dark Side, which he was successful. Such would have been the case for Vader had he managed to get to Luke or the Falcon in time. Lastly, the Rebels _did_ suffer significant losses, 17 out of 30 GR-75 transports were destroyed, over 50% to 57% personnel were killed in the escape. And don’t forget Vader’s order to Captain Piett, who was immediately promoted to Admiral, to “deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off the system.” So, he _did_ account for that. They had a considerable amount of success, and the Rebels were desperate to escape as well. The biggest error was that Ozzel brought the fleet “too close to the system.” Had Ozzel brought the fleet out of range of the Rebel sensors, jammed them, then they could have bombed the base successfully.
Plus with the game Rouge Squadron II and III, it shows that once the shields came down. The Empire launched an insane amount of TIE Wings to bomb the base.
@@Seriona1 Agreed. I think the planetary shield went both ways. The Empire couldn't use TIEs in atmosphere, and the Alliance couldn't use X-Wings. However, once the shield generator was destroyed, all bets were off. It's why we suddenly saw TIEs deployed in Rogue Squadron II and III. I also agree with @soundmixer6393. Admiral Ozzel screwed up majorly by bringing the Imperial fleet too close to the system. His blunder didn't cost the Empire a victory, BUT it did allow the Alliance to escape with far more of its equipment and personnel than they would have originally.
I agree on everyword. Also blockade in 3D isn't easy, space is huge, even huge amount of fleet if spread out evenly. So as the Rebels made a run for it, tried to zoom through there will be only 1 Star Destroyer close enough. If that one is temporarly disabled by planetary Ion Cannon you have a chance to pass through. The only thing would seem possible for me is to deploy all TIE squadrons while ground forces break through, and order them to patrol reinforce the blockade. The movie implied the transport with 2 X-Wing escort was quickly gaining altitude toward a chosen spot in the blockade, passed the disabled Star Destroyer and jumped into hyperspace ASAP. But TIE figthers and TIE bombers are as fast as X-Wings, they should have been fast enough to intercept the transport with at least the squadrons from the Star Destroyer closest (und currently disabled), 2 X-Wings can't hold off a swarm of TIE figthers escorting a TIE Bomber squadron, who can destroy the transport, or at least damage it's engines.
simplest no-nonsense strategy: lock down the place, keep them on edge with orbital bombadment, deploy ground units to take off the shield generator, once it's out throw down as many tie fighters as possible and follow later with bombers once air superiority is ensured to take down all the important infrastructures, THEN you can go with infantry to sweep the place.
you're not shooting the base, you're shooting the shield center so the rebels are hesitant in opening it and shoot the fleet with their ion cannon, it's got the offensive purpose of taking down the shield by force, the defensive purpose of preventing the enemy to fire back and the diversive purpose of splitting the already undersized enemy force, not allowing them any rest and making them use more resources.
ok that makes a but more sense. though you got to be careful and not kill your the at-ats you sent to take out the shield with your orbital bombardment.
CDgonePotatoes we see in Rebels that this kind of bombardment is not that precise. Given the situation you described, once the shield is down turbolasers would hit rebels and imperials alike. The bombardment would only delay the ion cannon, but eventually you would need to stop firing, and at that moment some star destroyer would get ionezed. Also, the ion shot travels at hundreds of miles per hour, the shield wouldn't be down for long and the Rebels might want to risk doing it. After some consideration, I remembered we don't see Thrawn using TIEs at the ground assault of Atollon, not to get through the shield at least, it may mess with repulsorlift technology or something.
Not being funny but if the empire had completely destroyed the rebels with overwhelming tie bombers and orbital laser cannons it would kinda of been a short film..
yeah it makes a better story when the good guys win because they were smarter or found an unknown flaw, it kills drama when you win because the villain is painfully inept
Plot armor is pretty much what characterizes Star Wars. It's a shame the fanbase has to scramble so hard to cover up the plot armor conjured up by Lucas and Disney. Just look at the Battle of Endor. People questioned why Stormtroopers wore so much armor if a bloody ewok with a stick can beat them to death. The fanbase shat their collective pants and came up with "Stormtrooper armor is designed to defeat blaster fire, not kinetic projectiles". In that case a Nazi with an MG-42 could literally chew up an entire regiment.
There are two key elements you're overlooking. 1. A lot of the things you're referencing didn't actually happen (the video game clips of TIE Bombers attacking transports) or didn't exist at the time the movie was made (Interdictor Cruisers). As well, the Rebels don't use X-wings against the AT-ATs. Which could suppose that use of TIE fighters within a planetary shield is dangerous. They are much faster than Airspeeders and could be in danger of exploding against the shield (they could theoretically "fly slower" but there could be more to it than that. we go with what we know; neither side used starfighters). 2. And most importantly, Darth Vader was in command and the destruction of the base meant nothing to him. It was not his objective. His sole purpose for finding and attacking this base was to capture Luke Skywalker. That's why he used the ENTIRE Death Squadron to pursue ONE ship and let the rest of the rebels escape. It's also why he didn't use any orbital bombardment, AND it's why he went down to secure the base himself. He wanted to capture the crew of the Falcon without risking damage to Luke. In other words, this wasn't a campaign that was mismanaged by the Empire (save for Admiral Ozzel's fatal misstep), but rather Darth Vader using a giant fleet of ships to capture one ship. Which, technically, in the end he did.
Have u ever watched Star Wars Rebels? Interdictor cruisers existed even before the battle of yavin yknow. Even if it didn’t exist before the movies, it can still be used for this video
Splattercat I have heard before, mainly from the fanbase, that starfighters don’t function well within the atmosphere. Star Wars today has disproven this claim. I agree Vader was more obsessed with capturing Luke at that point than fighting Sidious’ war. He seems to only care about discovering the base because as he says, “I’m sure Skywalker is with them”.
@@frankdees507 I like the 'starfighters don't function well within the atmosphere' theory myself. I've always believed TIEs were built in huge quantities because they were super cheap -- no ray shielding and no repulsor lifts -- so the idea of them working well with no real control surfaces in almost any atmosphere seems unlikely. TIEs and X-Wings had well defined roles and performance envelopes and that was space superiority IN SPACE. I mean why not use X-Wings and Y-wings for patrol on Hoth? The cold would not affect them so why wait and adjust speeders to do the job? Because they don't work well within the atmosphere. I just love the production design from these movies. Kit bashing wasn't just for the motion control models -- they made ship interiors and control panels from whatever was handy apparently and no effort was made to ensure that it 'made sense' in any way. None of that was important to the story.
While I absolutely agree that the decisions made in this battle were flawed, it still made for some of the most iconic scenes in cinema history. A cultural victory, I suppose.
A planetary blockade seems to be what they tried, which is why the ion cannon was so effective. The ships were spread way out to cover the escape path, but because they could literally fly out from anywhere they needed lots of space between them. I also think the shield somehow blocks aerial vehicles like TIEs, which is why they weren’t used in Rogue Squadron until after the shield fell.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember in one story or another stating that the Imps did send in commando's to disable the Ion Cannon's which is what that one rebel in the movie warns about, "Imperial Troops have entered the base. Imperial Troops have -", before getting shot by said commando's
Not just that, it was also confirmed that was Mon Mothma's son Jobin, who were the last ones left in Hoth for evacuation but Vader caught up with him and eliminated his life personally.
That's the theory I prescribe to myself. We see the one probe droid that landed on Hoth find the shield generator and send that back to the Imperial fleet. We didn't see it find the ion cannon, probably because Han and Chewie took it out before it could be discovered.
Please create a battle that you come up with on your own with your favorite battle tactics from Star Wars. I want to see what your awesome mind comes up with, maybe do a colab with spacedock. Just a suggestion.
RTS without the resourcing. More tabletop war game where they pick factions, fleet roster and loadouts, agree on a location for the battle to take place then play it out.
Vader did not care about destroying the Rebel Alliance so much as capturing Luke Skywalker. In the novel Star Wars Battle Front: Twilight Company, Vader only force chokes Everi Chalis to get information about Skywalker. Vader could care less that she betrayed the Empire!
Based on what we see in Episode 1, the rebels shield might not have allowed fast moving ties to move through it. We see battle droids almost shuffling in order to get through the gungan shield. The slow speed of the ATAT might have been an asset there.
I thought the Tie Bombers in Rogue Squadron were deployed after the Rebel's shield generator was destroyed. The shield generator would have protected the Rebel base from bombing runs, just like it does in games like Empire at War.
Should we consider that Vader wanted Luke alive and that intention hobbled the tactics proposed above i.e. hence we got 'General Veers, prepare your men' as opposed to a hypothetical 'Admiral Piett, prepare your fighters' to kill Rebels selectively ?
Suggesting airstrikes from within the atmosphere against the rebel base forgets one crucial fact: The shield is strong enough to not only block turbo-laser fire from obit, but also block smaller spacecraft from passing through it. This is evident by the fact that the rebels need to "open the shield" briefly to let transports and their fighter escort out. This is strongly indicative that attempting to fly through the shield would either result in outright destruction of the craft, or perhaps more likely, the shield will majorly distrupt spacecraft flight controls leading to a crash. This is also probably the reason why the rebels opted to engage the walkes with ground-skimming snowspeeders, instead of their much more heavily armed X- and Y-wing starfighers who are perfectly capable of atmospheric engagement and just a handful of them would have made a mess of the ATATs in short order. In sort. Landing on the ground and walking through the shield was indeed the only option available to the empire.
My interpretation of this battle is that: 1. The Empire *did* blockade Hoth in an attempt to intercept the fleeing Rebel transports and this is why the ion cannon was able to clear a path for them by targeting one ISD at a time - the fleet was widely spread out. Transports could simply be given new egress vectors to counter any reactive Imperial redeployments. 2. The slow method with a prolonged orbital bombardment to wear the shield down would have meant heavy losses from the ion cannon. Combined with the need to spread out to effectively blockade the planet meant that the Rebels would likely still be able to flee. 3. The Empire couldn't simply send in TIE Bombers to destroy the shield generator because - at least when this battle was written - aircraft couldn't pass through a shield from the outside. Thus, the need for a ground assault to destroy the generator. Once the shields were down *then* bombing became possible. If you can simply send bombers through a shield to destroy the generator then there's virtually never any reason to mount a ground assault and armies become instruments of occupation only - Star Wars writers should keep that in mind. The thing I've never understood is why dropping out of hyperspace too close to Hoth alerted the Rebels and bought them time to prepare. It would make more sense the other way around if Ozzel - out of excessive caution, which would be fitting for his character - brought the fleet out of hyperspace too far away in direct contravention of Vader's aggressive intentions.
I think that the Empire’s main goal was to capture the Rebel leaders. If a quick bombardment took them out, they couldn’t capture the Rebel leadership and make examples of them to prevent further rebellion
"Let the escape pod go." "Don't lock down docking bay 94 before we go in blasting." "Let the rebels escape with the Death Star plans so we can track them down." "Put the one-and-only shield generator on a moon and defend it with bikers."
3:21 is on of my favorite scenes. It only lasts for a second, but the shot of the snowspeeders rushing across the ground like that, with the AT-ATs in the background is really cool. It's a great action shot, even if the special effects are a little lacking, and if anything, I personally love those lesser quality, but still easily watchable graphics. It's almost like an unintended, gritty scene that totally befits both the rebels, but also the intensity of the scene in my opinion
Also, the snowspeeders aren't just flying straight and level. They're bobbing and weaving, whether because that looked cool for the shot, they're were preemptively evading the enemy's shots, or because the craft are just hard to control, it's just a great action scene ...Geek rant over
What about the Rebels awful tactics of not having the shield generator buried underground. It's thanks to that Generator that Vader realized they were on Hoth.
The generator probably had to be in open. we know from rebels that they do overheat alot and alot of the time actually project the shield itself, and the ground would block it. We also know the alliance is fairly mobile, so burying it would mean a higher commitment to the base than they would be comfortable with.
Overheating might be a problem on other planets, but Hoth is one place where being buried is certainly colder. This was also their attempt to establish a permanent base. Some commitment is required.
tesnacloud Well no, snow is a very effective insulator and would retain the generated heat very well. Meanwhile, Hoth is cold and very windy on the surface, which would take away heat very effectivity. In fact, Hoth would be one of the few planets that was warmer slightly underground than on the surface.
Snow is a good insulator when there is an additional barrier of air. Packing the snow on is not good insulation. Heat is not transferred easily between solids and gasses, but is transferred readily between two solids. Wind chill is a valid point, but I feel they likely wouldn't have required it anyway.
Ok, at this point, we are all applying too much science to a franchise that has always had science so soft you could spread it on toast like jelly. I am just as guilty. If we want to continue down the rabbit hole, there will eventually come a point where the entire franchise falls apart.
This video reminded me of a post I saw where someone says that during all of TESB Vader is simply trying to get Luke. Yes destroying the Alliance is the Empire's goal, but that was secondary to capturing Luke. He's acting solely on the basis of finding Luke, which is why he chases the Falcon through the asteroid field and clearly instructs 'No disintegrations' to the Bounty Hunters. Explains why he was so impatient, searching through the base, not wanting to completely obliterate it less the risk of Luke dying and the questionable tactics. Also it may be hilarious to imagine him thinking 'son, son, son, son,' while you listen to this theme as he shows up on screen. Anyways, nice video. I enjoy your perspective on the warfare of this franchise.
The empire is actually even dumber than this video makes it sound. Their plan was thus: send in the AT-ATs to disable the shield so that the fleet can bombard the base, killing all the rebels. The rebels can only flee in their ships when the shield is open, so there is no reason to disable the shield if you do not immediately kill the rebels. However, instead of this, Vader decides to go down there personally, something that *in no way requires the shield to be disabled* because he could just take an AT-AT. However, though the shield was disabled, the presence of the Empire's commanding officer on the battlefield made bombardment impossible. Wow that plan was stupid.
@@drugaddicter then he should've went with the AT-ATs, captured Luke first, left, then disabled the shield and bombarded the rebels-disabling the shields before capturing anyone let most of them escape, they did it way too early
To be fair, I think that I read somewhere that the majority of the Imperial Admirals did not like the Interdictors, as they were a waste of a good ship, and went against the Tarkin Doctrine and what Few that the Empire did have were being used in Anti Smuggling operations and actions against the rebels elsewhere
I don't understand how jumping too close to the system is a bad decision. Sure, they say it, but the closer you are, the closer your turbolasers are to their base meaning that reaction time is much faster for the attackers as opposed to just raising a shield? How would the asteroid field have helped at all aside from sensor scrambling? Launching fighters and landing craft from behind the belt? They'd blind themselves (turbolasers) with the asteroid field, so they couldn't bombard the base before deploying their items. If the Rebels had a shield generator anyway, then a ground force would have been needed anyway? How would there have been plenty of time to prepare if they were closer and right on top of them? I don't understand the lore's explanation of this problem... I'm not smart. edit: am hafway through the video now. Your bombardment by fighter rules make more sense but the Rebels still had time to escape? And the Empire did set up a blockade... Dunno
Jason L Yeah, me too. How would the Empire coming out of hyperspace closer to the system give the Rebels more time to react? If anything, it'd give them less time, on top of making any orbital bombardment more precise given the shorter distances.
ShadowFalcon Exactly. I also wondered all my years how suddenly arriving on top of them gave them an advantage by alerting them. Seems much more likely that creeping in from afar would give them away and alert the rebels if anything.
53rd Attempt; Yuuzhan Vong vs. Reapers * thanks for making today's video, I can finally explain why the empire failed to my friend * also, for my 70th attempt could I make a video instead of commenting and send it to you? heart this if yes
I think that makes sense though, patience is something that anakin struggled with, he would on occasion rush in when he should have waited. The difference is that Vader/anakin could handle rushing in, normal troops can’t.
I've been watching your videos on and off, and I also like the battle tactics videos, but I'm subbing mainly because of the thing with the dog at the end. Just too funny!
It’s been a while since I’ve seen the Empire Strikes Back but I thought the reason they did what they did was because they wanted prisoners specifically Luke Skywalker.
They wanted Luke Skywalker. Because at this point, he was famous, the one who killed the Death Star. The Empire clearly had good intelligence on the Alliance because they knew Luke would be with any Rebel base they found, that tells me that they knew the Alliance only had one base on some planet somewhere.
My understanding is this operation was lead by just Vader to capture Skywalker, maybe Solo and Leia. The only objective was Skywalker. they didn't all-out attack due to chances that Skywalker might be killed. How would Vader react to being told that Skywalker is dead?
@@Rendo86 Not only Skywalker, but Palpatine was also pretty much focused on the idea of capturing the Rebel leadership in order to "Make example of them". He wanted to have a public execution to show that treason will not be tolerated and break any hints of hope and morale the people may have against the Empire. In itself, it would work, but considering that everything that happens in Star Wars isn't just situated on one single planet, capturing people alive forces the Empire to take questionable battle tactics in order to ensure prisoners, instead of merely killing them off in battle. The only time Palpatine was ok with no public execution was during the Battle of Endor, showing off his new Death star and the destruction of the Rebel fleet would have been enough, if they had succeeded then.
"Why not use TIE Bombers?" Because as it has been shown in EP1, the clone wars, and in ROTJ, you can move through a shield but only VERY SLOWLY. Slower than even a thrown grenade. Bombers would slam against the shield, and your attack just ended before it begun. And your second argument is "Why not relax and use some patience?" You argue this after saying that walkers took too long to attack the base. The Hoth battle plan was sound as it was: >Come out of hyperspace further away from the planet, undetected in the asteroid belt, and move into a blockade position. >Land heavy ground units to penetrate the shield, destroying the front lines, and leaving it open and exposed. >Land reinforcements, mop up, destroy remaining ships/defenses. >Revel in the glory of the Empire. What foiled the Empire from a total crushing defeat was the admiral who came out of hyperspace in the wrong location, giving the rebels time to prepare and evacuate.
Duncan McOkiner Brutes would have done badly, they would've tried to rush the base and got mown down by defensive emplacements. Unless you're talking about Atriox. He could probably take the whole base single-handed.
Fully disable with a 2 shot salvo? Not likely I think. Screw with the areas on the SSD that got hit limiting the Executor's capabilities for a little bit yes. You have to remember that they were dropping the shield for a few seconds only which limited the Ion Cannon to only a couple of shots to cover the transports and their escorts. A full disable against an ISD knocks a hole in the 'blockade', tickling a SSD leaves the 'blockade' intact.
The Ion Canon was being powered by the reactor of a Star Dreadnought, a Mandator 2 I think. It would have taken a while for it to overwhelm the shields of an Executor, which is powered by a stronger reactor.
Best transforming fighter: VF-11 thunderbolt from Macross plus vs the Union Flag from Gundam 00 vs the Viking from StarCraft vs the Mecha Tengu from Command and Conquer vs the Legioss from Genesis Climber mospeda.
Before watching this, I'd like to remind everyone that the Empire was the victor at the Battle of Hoth. The Rebels were still caught unprepared and narrowly managed to escape. 2:45 TIE Bombers probably weren't used because they don't pack enough firepower to destroy the shield generator. Remember that the shield prevents all forms of orbital bombardment, so the Empire's no. 1 objective was to take out the generator. It took two blasts from an AT-AT at maximum power to destroy it. TIE bombers are great for destroying craft, gun emplacements & foot soldiers, but no much else. Since you mention the Rebel Strike video game, remember that Y-Wings are comparable to TIE bombers, and in one of the missions, it takes multiple drops from a Y-Wing to destroy a structure much smaller than the shield generator. Just curious.....your graphic shows 20 regular Star Destroyers surrounding the Executioner --- where do you get this number from? It was my understanding that the Executioner was flanked by only 2, possibly 3 regular Star Destroyers -- encountered by the Millennium Falcon during her escape.
Dennis Gray I remember seeing at most, maybe 4 (including the one the Falcon was attached to). There's also a scene near the beginning of the asteroid chase where Han dives the Falcon causing 2 approaching Star Destroyers to collide with one that was chasing. These same three presumably continued the pursuit. I think the fourth ship was the Executioner, Vader's ship. Besides, apart from the Battle of Endor, the Empire had a tendency to underestimate the resourcefulness of the Rebels, often sending too few ships.
sixstanger00 Vaders death squadron consisted of the executor and five other star destroyers. Only twenty seven were used in the battle of endor and it had been the largest fleet ever assembled.
Frank Dees Which proves my point -- the graphic in this video is inaccurate, as it shows 18 or Star Destroyers + the Executor in stationary orbit above Hoth.
I've long had difficulty with the idea of blaming Ozzal for "taking the fleet out of hyperspace too close to the system." Vader's orders did imply getting there fast and that a battle was expected. I think Ozzal real mistake was questioning Vader's insistence that the Rebels were ideed on Hoth and Vader was looking for an excuse to strangle him.
I know this would be difficult, but can you breakdown what is by far the largest space battle in the whole franchise? *The* *Battle* *of* *Yuuzhan'tar!* I have made this request: Three times.
Something I didn't get as a kid was why it mattered that the fleet emerged so close to the system. I figured that if anything it would give the imps an advantage. The reason it messed everything up for them is that if the fleet had slowly moved into the system which was rather cluttered with asteroids, they could have remained undetected, then bombarded the planet from long range. When a ship emerges from hyperspace into normalspace it emits a burst of radiation that is easily detectable from a few light seconds away. So while a ship might not be able to be detected if it jumps in outside the system (which would be a number of light *hours*), the radiation of an inbound jump would be easily detectable if the ships jumped in close to the planet, even if the ships themselves are outside sensor range
If the Imperials had jumped in outside of Rebel sensor range they could have shuttled in special forces units to disable the shield generator covering the base, and the ion cannon that was threatening the star destroyers. After that they could move in their fleet and impose a tight blockade to prevent Rebel ships retreating, bomb any remaining targets on the surface, and deployed ground forces to root out the remaining Rebels underground. The problems with this plan however are, unfortunately, many: 1. The Imperials jumped into detectable range, meaning that the Rebels could prepare. 2. When the Grand Army of the Republic became the Imperial Army they let their spec ops branch gather dust as the Imperial leadership preferred big gaudy displays of power over subtlety. 3. The ion cannon was preventing the Imperials from imposing a tight blockade(as the Tyrant learned). 4. The shield generator was preventing orbital bombardment. In the end only the ground assault, combined with a loose blockade, was feasible. Why more TIE support wasn't deployed is anyone's guess. Maybe this Imperial fleet wasn't carrying that many. That would explain their limited use during the pursuit of the Falcon.
There is one thing this argument could have taken into account: the intimidation factor. What is more intimidating than mobile fortresses that have armor "too strong for blasters"? Perhaps the Empire wanted the rebels to feel hopeless with star destroyers in space and walkers making their way to the base. Also, the Empire didn't know there was an ion cannon on Hoth and therefore weren't prepared for it.
Not allot of technical info involving the system where the battle took place if I remember correctly. It would be interesting to see him go over it though.
Regarding, re: TIEs; it's mentioned that they have to specifically open the shield to let the x-wings and transports out in the movie. Suffice to say, it's easy to assume that TIEs would go splat against the shield if they tried to fly down, hence the use of AT-ATs. The other thing to remember is that the air speeder isn't a proper aircraft either. They skim at low to medium heights, so from that alone, can assume that whilst the shield protected from above, ground forces (which would include the speeder) could operate beneath it.
If you’re whole mission is to stop and destroy a highly mobile force, then why wouldn’t you take interdictors with you? I’m blaming it on Vader, sure admiral ozzel may have come out of hyperspace “too close to the system”, but Vader would’ve had the necessary “pull” to get interdictors assigned to the fleet. And the most probable reason the entire fleet wasn’t there was because they weren’t in the right formation, again this is something Vader should’ve ordered. Ozzel still had it coming (because he’s a space nazi) and was probably purposely trying to screw up Vader’s plan or just didn’t expect Vader to be correct. This does beg the question, why wouldn’t they take everything Vader says seriously? He’s a Sith Lord right? Probably because he’s been wrong about his “feelings” in the past.
Great video. I just want to bring up that Vader wanted to capture Luke and that is probably why he chose a ground assault as opposed to a scorched Earth approach as well as lacked focus on the actual battle.
Dear EckhartsLadder, Great video as always. Your tactical and strategic assessments in these videos is always on point and thoughtful even though you state here you were "spitballing". I would have definitely sent in every bomber I had with full air support once the shield generator was down, and I would have had them deployed already. Once the generator was down, I would have sent them in wasting no time at all. Also, the walkers and ground forces could have used the air support. The Empire should have used a more Combined Arms approach which would have made their invasion a hell of a lot more powerful. This is particularly true considering the resources they had available. As cool as these videos are, a more interesting video would be what the Rebels could have done better considering how outmatched they were. Even if the Empire did everything right, I think the Rebels still could have escaped.
I think the idea is that the cannon is what prevents the empire from creating a blockade. They thought hey *did* have a blockade that would prevent escape and that they could simply send ground forces to destroy the base. However the ion canon poked holes in their blockade which let key personal escape
fyi, they can't really blockade them, not enough ships if you were wondering. Remember that any vehicle capable of launching through the atmosphere and then travelling that distance is obviously able to maneuver in the atmosphere and come out where they so desire mostly.
poetic licence. Lucas wanted to show how terrifying it is to fight against the Empire. The first time you see the AT-ATs, it’s pretty mind-blowing. Plus it paints up the whole inhuman, mechanistic nature of the Empire. That the walkers lumber slowly is on purpose, to build the tension as their overwhelming firepower draws ever closer. If the battles made military sense a lot of the poetry and drama would be lost.
Another great video, as always. I do think that the Empire truly failed at Hoth at the strategic level. Tactically, the Rebel Alliance lost its newfound base of operations, many of its soldiers, and some of its best pilots. Yet, the Empire failed to achieve two key objectives: 1. completely destroy the Rebel Alliance's leadership and 2. annihilate the capabilities of the Rebel Fleet. As such, the Rebel Alliance was able to continue the fight and, even with the losses incurred amongst its army, was able to rebuild its ground forces, a detachment of which effectively played a part at the Battle of Endor.
Here is what is interesting about the shields. It blocks turbolaser bombardment but not ground or air vehicles. In my opinion, the shield was a high energy electromagnetic field. The cannons were plasma based weapons. Magnetic fields can repel plasma.
You didnt take into account the Intel possibly gathered by sending ground troops in like they did, which may have been a priority with tracking the rebel fleet location.
I believe the reasoning of why the TIEs weren't used the way you suggest was because the planetary shields prevented them from doing so, and the terrain dictated where the Imperials could and couldn't land their troops, and the AT-AT's are used partly as terror weapons. Plus from what I've read, Death Squadron only had a limited number of snowtroopers and other cold-weather specialized troops, which limited how many troops that they could deploy, not to mention that Vader would've been to impatient to go for the blockade/siege option (even as Anakin Skywalker, patience was never his strongest point).
Patience? Vader was breathing down the neck of every officer and demanded quick results. Otherwise he would've killed them instantly. This fear and panic most likely compelled many Imperial Officers to commit to a poorly planned and executed offensive, which was intended to producea quick and very presentable victory to boost their reputation and prevent a slow and painful death.
It was really Vader who failed at Hoth. He never set any meaningful plans, immediately killed one of the Imperial admirals and didn't do anything on Hoth except lumber through the corridors of Echo Base and slaugher Rebel stragglers. He didn't plan a good offensive and didn't prevent any of the key personell from escaping.
And don't forget Vader probably didn't want to kill Luke, whom he had just learned was his son. It's possible that the Imperials had a much better plan before Vader learned that particular fact at the last minute...
And ozzel was pretty shit
Those key personnel were able to escape because they had enough time to organize one due to the incompetence of Admiral Ozzel, who Vader then killed. And what else could Vader do besides lumber around? The empire was just barely storming the base, and by that time the rebels had escaped.
It's actually hard to tell what Vader wanted at the time. When they dropped out of Hyper-Space, Vader was informed of the shield and said they dropped too close. One of the admirals blatantly disobeyed him. I think Vader wanted to slowly move in and starve them out. That could've given him prisoners and information about other rebel bases and forces. Then deliver Luke to the Emperor.
Not to mention his obsession with Skywalker.
I personally subscribe to the theory that Ozzel was either a rebel spy or sympathizer.
First, he tries to dismiss the evidence of the rebel base, arguing it's probably just smugglers, and only goes to Hoth once Vader insists and it is inevitable.
Then, Ozzel comes out of hyperspace early, allowing the Rebels to detect Death Squandron and bring up their shields and begin an evacuation. This allowed the rebels to survive, along with most of the high command, and live to fight another day.
Sure Imperial officers are often incompetent, but Ozzel is next level, every decision he makes hinders the Empire's attack. It would actually make more sense if he was making these mistakes on purpose.
Justafan IV I hope that can actually be cannon one day. I’d love to see a novel about that.
It would also show him to be a fucking awesome spy if he was able to reach the rank of Admiral without ever being caught.
IIRC, it's now canon that Ozzel was in the Navy since the CW era, so if he became a spy, it's definitely after Empire Day
HalfDemonInuyasha that would definitely be awesome
I love this theory cause if you read star wars allegiance it would totally make sense that he defected
So I know part of the blame is on Ozzel, but I personally believe that a lot of the mistakes are because of Vader's obsession with capturing Luke.
True, and his obsession with capturing him would get him killed, but it did give Luke time to prepare for his training as a Jedi, and Obi-Wan being reminded that there's still good in him, something that Luke knew when he was born. Before Padme died, those first words he heard from her dying mouth is that She knows there's still good in Anakin (Darth Vader), and it's proven when the Rebels destroyed the second Death Star, Vader, redeeming himself to send the Emperor crashing down into the shaft, and saving his son's life.
The Tarkin doctrine is probably the biggest culprit here.
Most of these other strategies make sense and would be very viable but doesnt exude the "imperial might" quite as well as a bunch of stompy seemingly invincible mechs moving on your base.
He Needed luke to have a strong force sensitive ally to overthrow the emperor.
I honestly don't see how it affected anything. Like what would/could he have done any differently? If his officers (aside from veers) had followed his orders things would have gone fine. He ordered Ozzel to sneak up on them, he didn't. Before he left the ship he ordered the fleet to stop anyone from leaving the system. The fleet just....didn't.
Clearly, the Empire did not learn enough from that time they tried to invade Russia in winter
ArticPrank The Empire are not Nazis
i Tqzy, in a way they are like nazis. The have red, white, and black in their flags, they conquer a lot of places, they oppress their citizens, they didn't like a group of people because of their religion and killed them, their leader made bad decisions was arrogant. A lot of people compare the Empire to the Nazis. And btw, it was a joke dumbass
Airsoft Gamers "they oppress their citizens, they didn't like a group of people because of their religion and killed them, their leader made bad decisions was arrogant" sounds like the US lmao
Well The empire was based off of the Third Reich
To say that the USA (Systematically) Opresses their citizens is not correct, the US does not (Systematically) dislike a group of people because of a religion (If you are speaking of Islam then you can hardly blame them, Islamic followers blew up a major monument and plenty of leaders of plenty of nations are arrogant.
ISIS has nothing to do with islam, their leaders only use the religion to brainwash them, like all the other religious terrorist organizations in the world.
To be fair to the Empire, the Rebels just had too much plot armour
Not to mention the COC of the empire was filled with people who shouldn't be in those positions people who have never seen a battle field in their life they gor there position due to bribery or flat out cheating
no to much *H I G H G R O U N D*
Throughout the entire Rebels vs Empire saga just about every Imperial officer's command decision was, lets face it, written in such a way to Let the terrori- I mean the freedom fighters win. No officer in their right mind would open such a vitally important shield bunker in the middle of a battle with enemy commandos running around all over the damn place just because some low ranking AT-ST driver says so. The commander of the air wing on the DS at the battle of Yavin is not sending out 6 Tie fighters to deal with 30. Their going to send out 600 to completely overwhelm and crush the scu- freedom loving "heros" . The Empire itself is not going to assign 2 lowly ISDs to guard one of the most critically important planets in the entire Empire (Scarif). Their assigning a fleet. And to beat the "Oh but the Empire was filled with such incompetents" I say a resounding NO. No government could continue functioning for more than 6 months with such incompetent ppl in charge. Plus of course Plot armor. Tons and tons and tons of Plot armor. Ugg. Long live the Empire.
Dylan M , every time, ever battle, 😕
The one thing the death star can't destroy
Plot armour
In regards to the “send all the TIE Bomber and TIE Fighters you’ve got,” it wouldn’t actually work because as observed in “Empire at War,” bombing runs are ineffective against base shields, even orbital bombardment is ineffective as General Veers puts it. “Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area of the sixth planet in the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.” Even _Force Commander_ has a general say “We would simply bomb the base, but the Rebels have established a shield around it [the base].” Apparently, not only is the field resistant against energy weapons, but against fast moving solid objects. As established in Episode I, it appears that slow moving objects are able to penetrate the shields as well as objects that have contact with the ground, which was probably why the MTTs nor the AATs could bypass the Gungan shields.
Another reason why Vader wanted to attack immediately was because he wanted Luke Skywalker, to convert him over to the Dark Side of the Force, so he could neither risk killing him nor give him any time to escape. There was also the Millennium Falcon and Luke’s allies. As evidenced in the DLC of _The Force Unleashed_, Lord Starkiller managed to use the Force to hold the Falcon hostage in order to tempt Luke to the Dark Side, which he was successful. Such would have been the case for Vader had he managed to get to Luke or the Falcon in time.
Lastly, the Rebels _did_ suffer significant losses, 17 out of 30 GR-75 transports were destroyed, over 50% to 57% personnel were killed in the escape. And don’t forget Vader’s order to Captain Piett, who was immediately promoted to Admiral, to “deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off the system.” So, he _did_ account for that. They had a considerable amount of success, and the Rebels were desperate to escape as well. The biggest error was that Ozzel brought the fleet “too close to the system.” Had Ozzel brought the fleet out of range of the Rebel sensors, jammed them, then they could have bombed the base successfully.
Plus with the game Rouge Squadron II and III, it shows that once the shields came down. The Empire launched an insane amount of TIE Wings to bomb the base.
@@Seriona1 Agreed. I think the planetary shield went both ways. The Empire couldn't use TIEs in atmosphere, and the Alliance couldn't use X-Wings. However, once the shield generator was destroyed, all bets were off. It's why we suddenly saw TIEs deployed in Rogue Squadron II and III. I also agree with @soundmixer6393. Admiral Ozzel screwed up majorly by bringing the Imperial fleet too close to the system. His blunder didn't cost the Empire a victory, BUT it did allow the Alliance to escape with far more of its equipment and personnel than they would have originally.
I agree on everyword.
Also blockade in 3D isn't easy, space is huge, even huge amount of fleet if spread out evenly. So as the Rebels made a run for it, tried to zoom through there will be only 1 Star Destroyer close enough. If that one is temporarly disabled by planetary Ion Cannon you have a chance to pass through.
The only thing would seem possible for me is to deploy all TIE squadrons while ground forces break through, and order them to patrol reinforce the blockade.
The movie implied the transport with 2 X-Wing escort was quickly gaining altitude toward a chosen spot in the blockade, passed the disabled Star Destroyer and jumped into hyperspace ASAP.
But TIE figthers and TIE bombers are as fast as X-Wings, they should have been fast enough to intercept the transport with at least the squadrons from the Star Destroyer closest (und currently disabled), 2 X-Wings can't hold off a swarm of TIE figthers escorting a TIE Bomber squadron, who can destroy the transport, or at least damage it's engines.
Fuuucking Force Commander.
I miss that game so much.
Is there any way to play it in 2024 on Win 10?
@@Seriona1 There's no such thing as Rouge Squadron
Grand Admiral Eckharts would have ensured that the Empire truly conquered the Galaxy.
Corgi owners OP.
Admiral Eckharts... it has a good ring to it.
dagdamor1 I don't want to ruin the 66 likes
We need to hire him. IMMEDIATELY.
dagdamor1 Grand Moff Eckharts sounds better
Grand moff is better.
The outro still gets me.
Love the angry Doge lol. want OG video lol
Those eyes right before the action truly begins... they know what is coming.
Does anyone know the name of the song?
TerriaHub Resonance by Home
Thanks :D
simplest no-nonsense strategy: lock down the place, keep them on edge with orbital bombadment, deploy ground units to take off the shield generator, once it's out throw down as many tie fighters as possible and follow later with bombers once air superiority is ensured to take down all the important infrastructures, THEN you can go with infantry to sweep the place.
CDgonePotatoes how do you get ground troopers inside the base if you are shooting around it.
you're not shooting the base, you're shooting the shield center so the rebels are hesitant in opening it and shoot the fleet with their ion cannon, it's got the offensive purpose of taking down the shield by force, the defensive purpose of preventing the enemy to fire back and the diversive purpose of splitting the already undersized enemy force, not allowing them any rest and making them use more resources.
ok that makes a but more sense. though you got to be careful and not kill your the at-ats you sent to take out the shield with your orbital bombardment.
CDgonePotatoes we see in Rebels that this kind of bombardment is not that precise. Given the situation you described, once the shield is down turbolasers would hit rebels and imperials alike. The bombardment would only delay the ion cannon, but eventually you would need to stop firing, and at that moment some star destroyer would get ionezed.
Also, the ion shot travels at hundreds of miles per hour, the shield wouldn't be down for long and the Rebels might want to risk doing it.
After some consideration, I remembered we don't see Thrawn using TIEs at the ground assault of Atollon, not to get through the shield at least, it may mess with repulsorlift technology or something.
I remember Ties fighting A-wings during atollon but i don't remember if they had gone through the shied.
Not being funny but if the empire had completely destroyed the rebels with overwhelming tie bombers and orbital laser cannons it would kinda of been a short film..
That's why you shouldn't write yourself into a hole that big.
Yeah, we kinda get that feeling already.
yeah it makes a better story when the good guys win because they were smarter or found an unknown flaw, it kills drama when you win because the villain is painfully inept
Plot armor is pretty much what characterizes Star Wars. It's a shame the fanbase has to scramble so hard to cover up the plot armor conjured up by Lucas and Disney. Just look at the Battle of Endor. People questioned why Stormtroopers wore so much armor if a bloody ewok with a stick can beat them to death. The fanbase shat their collective pants and came up with "Stormtrooper armor is designed to defeat blaster fire, not kinetic projectiles". In that case a Nazi with an MG-42 could literally chew up an entire regiment.
Should Plot armor never been invented at all in the first place?
Roses are red
Twileks are from ryloth
Eckharts ladder Is now explaining the battle of hoth
OKTOBERFEST Good one
Thanks
whyv know not do i backwards is it comments to reply i When
Stanchion and register need a little work?
OKTOBERFEST do first battle of the Hoover dam from fallout new Vegas or the battle reach from halo
There are two key elements you're overlooking.
1. A lot of the things you're referencing didn't actually happen (the video game clips of TIE Bombers attacking transports) or didn't exist at the time the movie was made (Interdictor Cruisers). As well, the Rebels don't use X-wings against the AT-ATs. Which could suppose that use of TIE fighters within a planetary shield is dangerous. They are much faster than Airspeeders and could be in danger of exploding against the shield (they could theoretically "fly slower" but there could be more to it than that. we go with what we know; neither side used starfighters).
2. And most importantly, Darth Vader was in command and the destruction of the base meant nothing to him. It was not his objective. His sole purpose for finding and attacking this base was to capture Luke Skywalker. That's why he used the ENTIRE Death Squadron to pursue ONE ship and let the rest of the rebels escape. It's also why he didn't use any orbital bombardment, AND it's why he went down to secure the base himself. He wanted to capture the crew of the Falcon without risking damage to Luke.
In other words, this wasn't a campaign that was mismanaged by the Empire (save for Admiral Ozzel's fatal misstep), but rather Darth Vader using a giant fleet of ships to capture one ship. Which, technically, in the end he did.
Have u ever watched Star Wars Rebels? Interdictor cruisers existed even before the battle of yavin yknow. Even if it didn’t exist before the movies, it can still be used for this video
Splattercat I have heard before, mainly from the fanbase, that starfighters don’t function well within the atmosphere. Star Wars today has disproven this claim. I agree Vader was more obsessed with capturing Luke at that point than fighting Sidious’ war. He seems to only care about discovering the base because as he says, “I’m sure Skywalker is with them”.
3. It's a movie.
@@frankdees507 I like the 'starfighters don't function well within the atmosphere' theory myself. I've always believed TIEs were built in huge quantities because they were super cheap -- no ray shielding and no repulsor lifts -- so the idea of them working well with no real control surfaces in almost any atmosphere seems unlikely. TIEs and X-Wings had well defined roles and performance envelopes and that was space superiority IN SPACE. I mean why not use X-Wings and Y-wings for patrol on Hoth? The cold would not affect them so why wait and adjust speeders to do the job? Because they don't work well within the atmosphere.
I just love the production design from these movies. Kit bashing wasn't just for the motion control models -- they made ship interiors and control panels from whatever was handy apparently and no effort was made to ensure that it 'made sense' in any way. None of that was important to the story.
Eh-chan he means the Interdictor is not DESIGNED then
While I absolutely agree that the decisions made in this battle were flawed, it still made for some of the most iconic scenes in cinema history. A cultural victory, I suppose.
Thrawn and the empire actually won the battle
You should have led this battle though, the rebellion would have been wiped out!
I still crack up whenever that dog comes on screen.
powerofanime1 It makes the whole video funny and informative
I only watch it to see the dog.
ua-cam.com/video/wSa0UsPzyUU/v-deo.html
Thank you. But you probably shouldn't be just cutting a clip from the end of someone else's video without giving credit.
true
"How things in movies universes that were invented after the movie should have been used in said movie" The ultimate hindsight 20/20
i love that intro music and outro it realy is calm and relaxing to listen to in your videos
Dr Jack FR
"Why did they use walkers?"
MERCHANDISING!
A planetary blockade seems to be what they tried, which is why the ion cannon was so effective. The ships were spread way out to cover the escape path, but because they could literally fly out from anywhere they needed lots of space between them. I also think the shield somehow blocks aerial vehicles like TIEs, which is why they weren’t used in Rogue Squadron until after the shield fell.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember in one story or another stating that the Imps did send in commando's to disable the Ion Cannon's which is what that one rebel in the movie warns about, "Imperial Troops have entered the base. Imperial Troops have -", before getting shot by said commando's
Ricardo Valdes that's right, they needed more I guess
Could be. Legends sources were divided about whether the cannon was set to self destruct or not, also.
Those were Vader's personal strike force which had to wait for the shield to come down to land.
Not just that, it was also confirmed that was Mon Mothma's son Jobin, who were the last ones left in Hoth for evacuation but Vader caught up with him and eliminated his life personally.
The SSD should have hyperspace rammed the planet
You should keep this series up I’m in love❤️
Luke Krivosh
Battle Breakdowns are awesome
Tim Bartsch I know right
Luke Krivosh
Nice Halo picture 👍
Tim Bartsch thanks man
Perhaps the Empire’s intel was lacking - the probe droids confirmed a rebel base, but perhaps not the ion cannon.
That's the theory I prescribe to myself. We see the one probe droid that landed on Hoth find the shield generator and send that back to the Imperial fleet. We didn't see it find the ion cannon, probably because Han and Chewie took it out before it could be discovered.
Perhaps it’s the far more likely theory that the writers didn’t intend for fans to go this in depth to the battle.
@goat bringing a Doylian explanation to a Watsonian discussion is bad form.
Please create a battle that you come up with on your own with your favorite battle tactics from Star Wars. I want to see what your awesome mind comes up with, maybe do a colab with spacedock. Just a suggestion.
awesome idea I would also love to see that
That Gamer Clone Wars stuff!
sounds really fun!
RTS without the resourcing. More tabletop war game where they pick factions, fleet roster and loadouts, agree on a location for the battle to take place then play it out.
Vader did not care about destroying the Rebel Alliance so much as capturing Luke Skywalker. In the novel Star Wars Battle Front: Twilight Company, Vader only force chokes Everi Chalis to get information about Skywalker. Vader could care less that she betrayed the Empire!
Darth Vader is not a girl :D
5:36 I’m not sure if that Rebel was killed by that ATAT, or if he just tripped. It took a second of so for him to fall after the blast lands
I think he stumbled because of the AT-AT blast and then tripped.
Joshua Dunford In the actual movie scene he lays down motionless after falling.
@@frankdees507 Maybe he tripped and then decided it was a good time to take a nap.
@@namename-yr1bn f o r e v e r n a p
Nah he tripped and died
Based on what we see in Episode 1, the rebels shield might not have allowed fast moving ties to move through it. We see battle droids almost shuffling in order to get through the gungan shield. The slow speed of the ATAT might have been an asset there.
Keep up the battle analysis. Love it. And you should bring back Galactic Versus.
Recusant Class vs Something
Frothy Walrus Here's one,Recusant(Rebel Version) VS Venator
I thought the Tie Bombers in Rogue Squadron were deployed after the Rebel's shield generator was destroyed. The shield generator would have protected the Rebel base from bombing runs, just like it does in games like Empire at War.
Should we consider that Vader wanted Luke alive and that intention hobbled the tactics proposed above i.e. hence we got 'General Veers, prepare your men' as opposed to a hypothetical 'Admiral Piett, prepare your fighters' to kill Rebels selectively ?
Suggesting airstrikes from within the atmosphere against the rebel base forgets one crucial fact: The shield is strong enough to not only block turbo-laser fire from obit, but also block smaller spacecraft from passing through it. This is evident by the fact that the rebels need to "open the shield" briefly to let transports and their fighter escort out. This is strongly indicative that attempting to fly through the shield would either result in outright destruction of the craft, or perhaps more likely, the shield will majorly distrupt spacecraft flight controls leading to a crash. This is also probably the reason why the rebels opted to engage the walkes with ground-skimming snowspeeders, instead of their much more heavily armed X- and Y-wing starfighers who are perfectly capable of atmospheric engagement and just a handful of them would have made a mess of the ATATs in short order.
In sort. Landing on the ground and walking through the shield was indeed the only option available to the empire.
THIS SERIES IS AWESOME! Keep it up Eck!
My interpretation of this battle is that:
1. The Empire *did* blockade Hoth in an attempt to intercept the fleeing Rebel transports and this is why the ion cannon was able to clear a path for them by targeting one ISD at a time - the fleet was widely spread out. Transports could simply be given new egress vectors to counter any reactive Imperial redeployments.
2. The slow method with a prolonged orbital bombardment to wear the shield down would have meant heavy losses from the ion cannon. Combined with the need to spread out to effectively blockade the planet meant that the Rebels would likely still be able to flee.
3. The Empire couldn't simply send in TIE Bombers to destroy the shield generator because - at least when this battle was written - aircraft couldn't pass through a shield from the outside. Thus, the need for a ground assault to destroy the generator. Once the shields were down *then* bombing became possible. If you can simply send bombers through a shield to destroy the generator then there's virtually never any reason to mount a ground assault and armies become instruments of occupation only - Star Wars writers should keep that in mind.
The thing I've never understood is why dropping out of hyperspace too close to Hoth alerted the Rebels and bought them time to prepare. It would make more sense the other way around if Ozzel - out of excessive caution, which would be fitting for his character - brought the fleet out of hyperspace too far away in direct contravention of Vader's aggressive intentions.
Resurgent class star destroyer VS fully armed lucrehulk class battleship
I think that the Empire’s main goal was to capture the Rebel leaders. If a quick bombardment took them out, they couldn’t capture the Rebel leadership and make examples of them to prevent further rebellion
"Let the escape pod go."
"Don't lock down docking bay 94 before we go in blasting."
"Let the rebels escape with the Death Star plans so we can track them down."
"Put the one-and-only shield generator on a moon and defend it with bikers."
Actually the moon base had ATATs, ATSTs, etc. The rebels just found the backdoor and assaulted that.
The Empire fucking had a super star destroyer and like a dozen star destroyers but yet they couldn't destroy a few GR 70s and a few x wings.
Snow is cold
You are in command now, Admiral Obvious.
kyler hernandez Fire is hot
And hell has frozen over
Snow actually falls ABOVE freezing, in the polar regions.
And sand is wet
from a filmmaking perspective in the 70s an attack with walking tanks was absolutely perfect
I like the new series
3:21 is on of my favorite scenes. It only lasts for a second, but the shot of the snowspeeders rushing across the ground like that, with the AT-ATs in the background is really cool. It's a great action shot, even if the special effects are a little lacking, and if anything, I personally love those lesser quality, but still easily watchable graphics. It's almost like an unintended, gritty scene that totally befits both the rebels, but also the intensity of the scene in my opinion
Also, the snowspeeders aren't just flying straight and level. They're bobbing and weaving, whether because that looked cool for the shot, they're were preemptively evading the enemy's shots, or because the craft are just hard to control, it's just a great action scene
...Geek rant over
Thanks a lot, Ozzel
Better tactics at Hoth would have demanded imagination and initiative on the part of Imperial officers, something Imperial ideology did not allow for.
What about the Rebels awful tactics of not having the shield generator buried underground. It's thanks to that Generator that Vader realized they were on Hoth.
The generator probably had to be in open. we know from rebels that they do overheat alot and alot of the time actually project the shield itself, and the ground would block it.
We also know the alliance is fairly mobile, so burying it would mean a higher commitment to the base than they would be comfortable with.
Overheating might be a problem on other planets, but Hoth is one place where being buried is certainly colder. This was also their attempt to establish a permanent base. Some commitment is required.
tesnacloud Well no, snow is a very effective insulator and would retain the generated heat very well. Meanwhile, Hoth is cold and very windy on the surface, which would take away heat very effectivity. In fact, Hoth would be one of the few planets that was warmer slightly underground than on the surface.
Snow is a good insulator when there is an additional barrier of air. Packing the snow on is not good insulation. Heat is not transferred easily between solids and gasses, but is transferred readily between two solids. Wind chill is a valid point, but I feel they likely wouldn't have required it anyway.
Ok, at this point, we are all applying too much science to a franchise that has always had science so soft you could spread it on toast like jelly. I am just as guilty. If we want to continue down the rabbit hole, there will eventually come a point where the entire franchise falls apart.
This video reminded me of a post I saw where someone says that during all of TESB Vader is simply trying to get Luke. Yes destroying the Alliance is the Empire's goal, but that was secondary to capturing Luke. He's acting solely on the basis of finding Luke, which is why he chases the Falcon through the asteroid field and clearly instructs 'No disintegrations' to the Bounty Hunters. Explains why he was so impatient, searching through the base, not wanting to completely obliterate it less the risk of Luke dying and the questionable tactics.
Also it may be hilarious to imagine him thinking 'son, son, son, son,' while you listen to this theme as he shows up on screen.
Anyways, nice video. I enjoy your perspective on the warfare of this franchise.
The empire is actually even dumber than this video makes it sound. Their plan was thus: send in the AT-ATs to disable the shield so that the fleet can bombard the base, killing all the rebels. The rebels can only flee in their ships when the shield is open, so there is no reason to disable the shield if you do not immediately kill the rebels. However, instead of this, Vader decides to go down there personally, something that *in no way requires the shield to be disabled* because he could just take an AT-AT. However, though the shield was disabled, the presence of the Empire's commanding officer on the battlefield made bombardment impossible. Wow that plan was stupid.
In hindsight I think it might've been a thing that Vader didn't want ALL the rebels gone 'n dusted. Still it does seem really stupid of him, though.
He wanted to capture Luke first and then bomb the rest of the rebels into the hell.
@@drugaddicter then he should've went with the AT-ATs, captured Luke first, left, then disabled the shield and bombarded the rebels-disabling the shields before capturing anyone let most of them escape, they did it way too early
just to notice, it was a group of 6 Imperial Star Destroyers and the Executor, not hundreds of imperial ships in orbit if i recognize it correctly...
Even just 5 ISDs and 1 SSD
Their biggest mistake (Besides Ozzel's blunder obviously) was not bringing any Interdictor Cruisers with them in the first place.
To be fair, I think that I read somewhere that the majority of the Imperial Admirals did not like the Interdictors, as they were a waste of a good ship, and went against the Tarkin Doctrine and what Few that the Empire did have were being used in Anti Smuggling operations and actions against the rebels elsewhere
I really enjoy those deep insights into Star Wars battles. Thanks for the cool videos :)
I don't understand how jumping too close to the system is a bad decision. Sure, they say it, but the closer you are, the closer your turbolasers are to their base meaning that reaction time is much faster for the attackers as opposed to just raising a shield? How would the asteroid field have helped at all aside from sensor scrambling? Launching fighters and landing craft from behind the belt? They'd blind themselves (turbolasers) with the asteroid field, so they couldn't bombard the base before deploying their items. If the Rebels had a shield generator anyway, then a ground force would have been needed anyway? How would there have been plenty of time to prepare if they were closer and right on top of them? I don't understand the lore's explanation of this problem... I'm not smart.
edit: am hafway through the video now. Your bombardment by fighter rules make more sense but the Rebels still had time to escape? And the Empire did set up a blockade... Dunno
Jason L
Yeah, me too.
How would the Empire coming out of hyperspace closer to the system give the Rebels more time to react?
If anything, it'd give them less time, on top of making any orbital bombardment more precise given the shorter distances.
ShadowFalcon Exactly. I also wondered all my years how suddenly arriving on top of them gave them an advantage by alerting them. Seems much more likely that creeping in from afar would give them away and alert the rebels if anything.
Patience...is not...a gift...Lord Vader...is burdened with...
53rd Attempt;
Yuuzhan Vong vs. Reapers
* thanks for making today's video, I can finally explain why the empire failed to my friend
* also, for my 70th attempt could I make a video instead of commenting and send it to you? heart this if yes
I think Yuuzhan vong win ball
goku black order No... think about what would happen if a World Ship got indoctrinated.
well indoctrination can take an extended amount of time but that's and interesting scenario
Angry Irishman the Reapers would have a very hard time destroying the world ship
goku black order My point is more what would happen if the Vong found themselves with their tech indoctrinated by the Reapers?
Gotta say, these Battle Breakdown videos are awesome! Please, keep making them!
actually empire did manage to destroy most of the escaping transports; but of course, no main characters were harmed due to plot armour
No. It is because they were in their own ships, like the Millennium Falcon or an X-wing.
I think that makes sense though, patience is something that anakin struggled with, he would on occasion rush in when he should have waited. The difference is that Vader/anakin could handle rushing in, normal troops can’t.
I agree with u and I like the end of this video keep it up
I've been watching your videos on and off, and I also like the battle tactics videos, but I'm subbing mainly because of the thing with the dog at the end. Just too funny!
It’s been a while since I’ve seen the Empire Strikes Back but I thought the reason they did what they did was because they wanted prisoners specifically Luke Skywalker.
Same.
They wanted Luke Skywalker. Because at this point, he was famous, the one who killed the Death Star. The Empire clearly had good intelligence on the Alliance because they knew Luke would be with any Rebel base they found, that tells me that they knew the Alliance only had one base on some planet somewhere.
My understanding is this operation was lead by just Vader to capture Skywalker, maybe Solo and Leia. The only objective was Skywalker. they didn't all-out attack due to chances that Skywalker might be killed. How would Vader react to being told that Skywalker is dead?
@@Rendo86 Not only Skywalker, but Palpatine was also pretty much focused on the idea of capturing the Rebel leadership in order to "Make example of them". He wanted to have a public execution to show that treason will not be tolerated and break any hints of hope and morale the people may have against the Empire.
In itself, it would work, but considering that everything that happens in Star Wars isn't just situated on one single planet, capturing people alive forces the Empire to take questionable battle tactics in order to ensure prisoners, instead of merely killing them off in battle.
The only time Palpatine was ok with no public execution was during the Battle of Endor, showing off his new Death star and the destruction of the Rebel fleet would have been enough, if they had succeeded then.
A sincere thanks for giving me videos that I never knew I wanted to watch:)
Empire does make a lot of mistakes and great video love your channel and videos.
Gerardo Reyes they were actually supposed to deploy around the asteroid field
"Why not use TIE Bombers?"
Because as it has been shown in EP1, the clone wars, and in ROTJ, you can move through a shield but only VERY SLOWLY. Slower than even a thrown grenade. Bombers would slam against the shield, and your attack just ended before it begun.
And your second argument is "Why not relax and use some patience?"
You argue this after saying that walkers took too long to attack the base.
The Hoth battle plan was sound as it was:
>Come out of hyperspace further away from the planet, undetected in the asteroid belt, and move into a blockade position.
>Land heavy ground units to penetrate the shield, destroying the front lines, and leaving it open and exposed.
>Land reinforcements, mop up, destroy remaining ships/defenses.
>Revel in the glory of the Empire.
What foiled the Empire from a total crushing defeat was the admiral who came out of hyperspace in the wrong location, giving the rebels time to prepare and evacuate.
This series is awesome,why don't u take control of the first order?
Darth Vader first order wasn't canon
I don't know why this was in my recommended but I'm really glad it was.
Not the whole fleet just one star destroyer under the moronic ozzel
Didn't Darth Vader say something about how the general made to many mistakes so he killed him. So it was mentioned in the movie.
I bet the Krogan would have done it better. Or the Brutes. Hey, you should put them against each other. [89th ask]
So are the Brutes, they're a good match.
Duncan McOkiner Brutes would have done badly, they would've tried to rush the base and got mown down by defensive emplacements.
Unless you're talking about Atriox. He could probably take the whole base single-handed.
I don't really care, I've been asking Eck to do Krogan vs Brutes most of this year and at this point I'm just trying to find new ways of phrasing it.
Duncan McOkiner Is this like UA-cam channels finding progressively more creative ways to introduce their skillshare ads?
I wouldn't call it 'creative' as much as annoying, obvious, time-wasting, aggravating or "fuck off" but yes, basically.
This video should serve as an example to the most vicious sequel haters that the battle strategies in these movies have always been horrific.
Could the ion cannon disable the Executor Super Star Destroyer?
Would take a large number of shots, during which it might reposition, or be shielded by an ISD.
Fully disable with a 2 shot salvo? Not likely I think. Screw with the areas on the SSD that got hit limiting the Executor's capabilities for a little bit yes. You have to remember that they were dropping the shield for a few seconds only which limited the Ion Cannon to only a couple of shots to cover the transports and their escorts. A full disable against an ISD knocks a hole in the 'blockade', tickling a SSD leaves the 'blockade' intact.
The Ion Canon was being powered by the reactor of a Star Dreadnought, a Mandator 2 I think. It would have taken a while for it to overwhelm the shields of an Executor, which is powered by a stronger reactor.
And not all that power can probably be diverted from the generator to the cannon...
I think that in EAW it takes to salvoes to do it
Best transforming fighter:
VF-11 thunderbolt from Macross plus vs the Union Flag from Gundam 00 vs the Viking from StarCraft vs the Mecha Tengu from Command and Conquer vs the Legioss from Genesis Climber mospeda.
Before watching this, I'd like to remind everyone that the Empire was the victor at the Battle of Hoth. The Rebels were still caught unprepared and narrowly managed to escape.
2:45 TIE Bombers probably weren't used because they don't pack enough firepower to destroy the shield generator. Remember that the shield prevents all forms of orbital bombardment, so the Empire's no. 1 objective was to take out the generator. It took two blasts from an AT-AT at maximum power to destroy it. TIE bombers are great for destroying craft, gun emplacements & foot soldiers, but no much else. Since you mention the Rebel Strike video game, remember that Y-Wings are comparable to TIE bombers, and in one of the missions, it takes multiple drops from a Y-Wing to destroy a structure much smaller than the shield generator.
Just curious.....your graphic shows 20 regular Star Destroyers surrounding the Executioner --- where do you get this number from? It was my understanding that the Executioner was flanked by only 2, possibly 3 regular Star Destroyers -- encountered by the Millennium Falcon during her escape.
Dennis Gray
I remember seeing at most, maybe 4 (including the one the Falcon was attached to). There's also a scene near the beginning of the asteroid chase where Han dives the Falcon causing 2 approaching Star Destroyers to collide with one that was chasing. These same three presumably continued the pursuit. I think the fourth ship was the Executioner, Vader's ship.
Besides, apart from the Battle of Endor, the Empire had a tendency to underestimate the resourcefulness of the Rebels, often sending too few ships.
sixstanger00 Vaders death squadron consisted of the executor and five other star destroyers. Only twenty seven were used in the battle of endor and it had been the largest fleet ever assembled.
Frank Dees
Which proves my point -- the graphic in this video is inaccurate, as it shows 18 or Star Destroyers + the Executor in stationary orbit above Hoth.
I've long had difficulty with the idea of blaming Ozzal for "taking the fleet out of hyperspace too close to the system." Vader's orders did imply getting there fast and that a battle was expected. I think Ozzal real mistake was questioning Vader's insistence that the Rebels were ideed on Hoth and Vader was looking for an excuse to strangle him.
I know this would be difficult, but can you breakdown what is by far the largest space battle in the whole franchise? *The* *Battle* *of* *Yuuzhan'tar!*
I have made this request: Three times.
Something I didn't get as a kid was why it mattered that the fleet emerged so close to the system. I figured that if anything it would give the imps an advantage. The reason it messed everything up for them is that if the fleet had slowly moved into the system which was rather cluttered with asteroids, they could have remained undetected, then bombarded the planet from long range.
When a ship emerges from hyperspace into normalspace it emits a burst of radiation that is easily detectable from a few light seconds away. So while a ship might not be able to be detected if it jumps in outside the system (which would be a number of light *hours*), the radiation of an inbound jump would be easily detectable if the ships jumped in close to the planet, even if the ships themselves are outside sensor range
Roses are red
Look are that wampas face
Imperial troops have entered the base
If the Imperials had jumped in outside of Rebel sensor range they could have shuttled in special forces units to disable the shield generator covering the base, and the ion cannon that was threatening the star destroyers. After that they could move in their fleet and impose a tight blockade to prevent Rebel ships retreating, bomb any remaining targets on the surface, and deployed ground forces to root out the remaining Rebels underground.
The problems with this plan however are, unfortunately, many:
1. The Imperials jumped into detectable range, meaning that the Rebels could prepare.
2. When the Grand Army of the Republic became the Imperial Army they let their spec ops branch gather dust as the Imperial leadership preferred big gaudy displays of power over subtlety.
3. The ion cannon was preventing the Imperials from imposing a tight blockade(as the Tyrant learned).
4. The shield generator was preventing orbital bombardment.
In the end only the ground assault, combined with a loose blockade, was feasible. Why more TIE support wasn't deployed is anyone's guess. Maybe this Imperial fleet wasn't carrying that many. That would explain their limited use during the pursuit of the Falcon.
Attempt 3: 2 Harrower Dreadnaughts vs 1 Imperial Star Destroyer
There is one thing this argument could have taken into account: the intimidation factor. What is more intimidating than mobile fortresses that have armor "too strong for blasters"? Perhaps the Empire wanted the rebels to feel hopeless with star destroyers in space and walkers making their way to the base. Also, the Empire didn't know there was an ion cannon on Hoth and therefore weren't prepared for it.
Cover the human-formic battle at the end of Ender's Game.
The book or the newish film?
The book
Not allot of technical info involving the system where the battle took place if I remember correctly. It would be interesting to see him go over it though.
I still can't get over the new outro, and that's good because I don't want to
That's 10/10 man
You wanna know why the empire lost? Cause they were the bad guys.
Otaku prince *Supposed to be the bad guys
But they really aren’t
No it was plot armour
I have always loved your videos, and your videos always make my day a little brighter. Thank you
NOTIFICATION SQUAD REPORT IN
Notification 2, standing by.
Notification 6 standing by
Notification squad stay alert were passing through there magnetic field
Regarding, re: TIEs; it's mentioned that they have to specifically open the shield to let the x-wings and transports out in the movie. Suffice to say, it's easy to assume that TIEs would go splat against the shield if they tried to fly down, hence the use of AT-ATs. The other thing to remember is that the air speeder isn't a proper aircraft either. They skim at low to medium heights, so from that alone, can assume that whilst the shield protected from above, ground forces (which would include the speeder) could operate beneath it.
i'll be honest, I subscribed for the corgi lol
Isn't it a Shibe Inu?
If you’re whole mission is to stop and destroy a highly mobile force, then why wouldn’t you take interdictors with you? I’m blaming it on Vader, sure admiral ozzel may have come out of hyperspace “too close to the system”, but Vader would’ve had the necessary “pull” to get interdictors assigned to the fleet. And the most probable reason the entire fleet wasn’t there was because they weren’t in the right formation, again this is something Vader should’ve ordered. Ozzel still had it coming (because he’s a space nazi) and was probably purposely trying to screw up Vader’s plan or just didn’t expect Vader to be correct. This does beg the question, why wouldn’t they take everything Vader says seriously? He’s a Sith Lord right? Probably because he’s been wrong about his “feelings” in the past.
Loving this series so far, but I can't wait for one dealing with the original battle of Sigma Octanus IV and the Keyes Loop
Great video. I just want to bring up that Vader wanted to capture Luke and that is probably why he chose a ground assault as opposed to a scorched Earth approach as well as lacked focus on the actual battle.
Dear EckhartsLadder,
Great video as always. Your tactical and strategic assessments in these videos is always on point and thoughtful even though you state here you were "spitballing".
I would have definitely sent in every bomber I had with full air support once the shield generator was down, and I would have had them deployed already. Once the generator was down, I would have sent them in wasting no time at all.
Also, the walkers and ground forces could have used the air support. The Empire should have used a more Combined Arms approach which would have made their invasion a hell of a lot more powerful. This is particularly true considering the resources they had available.
As cool as these videos are, a more interesting video would be what the Rebels could have done better considering how outmatched they were. Even if the Empire did everything right, I think the Rebels still could have escaped.
All ships present at the battle of coruscant (or just one side) vs the byss fleet during shadow hand (with or without byss present)
I think the idea is that the cannon is what prevents the empire from creating a blockade. They thought hey *did* have a blockade that would prevent escape and that they could simply send ground forces to destroy the base. However the ion canon poked holes in their blockade which let key personal escape
fyi, they can't really blockade them, not enough ships if you were wondering. Remember that any vehicle capable of launching through the atmosphere and then travelling that distance is obviously able to maneuver in the atmosphere and come out where they so desire mostly.
poetic licence. Lucas wanted to show how terrifying it is to fight against the Empire. The first time you see the AT-ATs, it’s pretty mind-blowing. Plus it paints up the whole inhuman, mechanistic nature of the Empire. That the walkers lumber slowly is on purpose, to build the tension as their overwhelming firepower draws ever closer. If the battles made military sense a lot of the poetry and drama would be lost.
Dude im loving this series!
I love ur videos just to note I watch them all the time keep up the good work
Another great video, as always. I do think that the Empire truly failed at Hoth at the strategic level. Tactically, the Rebel Alliance lost its newfound base of operations, many of its soldiers, and some of its best pilots. Yet, the Empire failed to achieve two key objectives: 1. completely destroy the Rebel Alliance's leadership and 2. annihilate the capabilities of the Rebel Fleet. As such, the Rebel Alliance was able to continue the fight and, even with the losses incurred amongst its army, was able to rebuild its ground forces, a detachment of which effectively played a part at the Battle of Endor.
Loving the battle breakdowns!
EckHartsLadder I just subbed :)
Also i freaking love this! I like to see more of this!!!
Here is what is interesting about the shields. It blocks turbolaser bombardment but not ground or air vehicles. In my opinion, the shield was a high energy electromagnetic field. The cannons were plasma based weapons. Magnetic fields can repel plasma.
You didnt take into account the Intel possibly gathered by sending ground troops in like they did, which may have been a priority with tracking the rebel fleet location.
I believe the reasoning of why the TIEs weren't used the way you suggest was because the planetary shields prevented them from doing so, and the terrain dictated where the Imperials could and couldn't land their troops, and the AT-AT's are used partly as terror weapons. Plus from what I've read, Death Squadron only had a limited number of snowtroopers and other cold-weather specialized troops, which limited how many troops that they could deploy, not to mention that Vader would've been to impatient to go for the blockade/siege option (even as Anakin Skywalker, patience was never his strongest point).
I love these types of videos please do more!