This is Holding Sonic Back
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Why do some Sonic games feel so constrained? Discover how SEGA's strict mandates have shaped the Sonic franchise, stifling creativity and missing opportunities for deeper storytelling. From Sonic '06 to Sonic Forces, we'll explore the impact of these rules on your favorite games. Join us as we discuss the changes SEGA is making to bring fresh adventures and richer characters to Sonic's world!
Sonic game restrictions, Sega mandates Sonic, Sonic creativity stifled, Sega’s control over Sonic, Sonic game design constraints, Sonic the Hedgehog franchise challenges, Sonic games held back, Sega policies Sonic, Sonic franchise limitations
00:00 - Intro
00:47 - The Mandates
2:02 - The Future Mandates
3:28 - Outro
Credits:
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Blood Flow - Sonic Frontiers - 7orisu Remix
Dropaholic - Sonic Frontiers
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in defense of the mandates, they do have a point to exist
Archie was doing some crazy ass shit with sonic
There are some that are completely unfair tho
Oh absolutely! I couldn’t imagine what would happen without some of these, and the way the “K word” was doing stuff with the series was very obscure! It just felt like during this whole setback, Sonic took a hit which caused a bit of a downfall for some of the games which could’ve done so much better. But it’s alright, they know what they’re up to and we have a good bright future ahead of us as fans! Thanks for your two cents I appreciate it 😁
Which is annoying because you have the craziness that is most of the first 160 issues, then you have the peak that is 160 and onwards. Ian run of archie is peak sonic stories in my opinion.
@@endosaurus1404 absolutely! I think he has done an amazing job with sonic story, lore and interactions within the comics!
@@7orisuFINALLY, someone else who appreciates Ian Flynn.
@endosaurus1404 don't just mesh all 160 issues into garbage category, buddy. A lot of early issues while goofy were still entertaining and Karl Bollers is an underrated Sonic writer who did some of the most engaging comic arcs like "Return to the Angel Island"
I don’t see how Sonic not being able to cry is a problem.
Even in the scene you showed TAILS is crying, and Sonic is clearly holding himself together which is all the emotions you need.
This isn’t even a bad mandate.
And if you worried about teaching kids.
this was already shown in Secret Rings which literally had Sonic telling a character it was okay to cry and let out your emotions as much as you need to
Also there's that scene during the SA2 Last Story when a single tear comes out of one of Shadow's eyes and slides down his cheek after the flashback that revealed that Shadow's memory of what Maria truly wanted him to be doing had been unlocked. That was emotional for sure.
It makes sense for Sonic to not want to cry, he probably wants to appear “Strong” for those around him.
That’s is a good point! And honestly he doesn’t need to just “cry” but show more depth into his emotional side. Not ugly cry haha! I loved sonic emotions in secret rings. And frontiers did really well in show that sonic can hold himself well. But still show his emotional side.
@@7orisu From my understanding Sonic is still allowed to convey strong emotions just in his own way.
For instance he was plenty angry at Eggman multiple times during the Zombot arc and even lashed out at him a ton in the comics.
If Sonic’s emotional range is holding writers back then that to me conveys they’re trying to give Sonic emotions in a way his character just isn’t designed to show.
He’s even shed a tear before in the comics as you read out as well and showed the usual range of Sonic emotions you’d expect since.
Like I said this mandate isn’t really an issue this just keeps writers in line so they don’t go overboard with the drama Sonic can go through
Sonic has shown more emotion in the Movies than most of the Meta era.
Absolutely! That moment when he's in the baseball park in the first movie and he's all alone, such a good scene!
can we all agree that the problem with Sonic 06 was never that it contained romance but that the writers and devs were clearly unhinged?
Romance is important. Just remember Mario and Bowser trying for Peach's hand in Mario Odyssey, but still ended with no answer. Just imagine if that scene never happened?
We never would've gotten Bowsette. 😂
I’m wheeezing 😂😂 But you got a point! It’s a good dynamic, in its rightful place
@@7orisu Thanks bro. I love to entertain. 😆
this just sounds like a kid that didn't have his fan game commissioned
Well when are they going to do it?! Jokes Sonic p-06 is the game fan I’ve always wanted! That’s why it’s in the intro 🤣
Some of these rules are just apart of the characters. When Sonic was created, Ohshima made it a point that Sonic doesn’t cry in front of people. He’s an unwavering beacon of freedom. Thats just his character but I do think the other characters should have more raw emotion and I do think Sonic should be allowed to be more dynamic.
As for romance, I agree they should be allowed.
But the misconceptions around the mandates is that as a writer, you should be able to work around them. Every franchise has mandates like these. You’re supposed to write around them while still presenting what you want to do. For example, if you want an emotional story, maybe Sonic can’t cry but you can show some frustration and dynamic negative emotions from him and then you can show his resolve. Thats how you write for IPs. In the case of someone like Ian Flynn who consistently complains about them, he wants to make his own interpretation of the characters but the mandates clash with that which they are keeping him consistent with the source material which is what he’s writing for. For example, he wants to make Shadow more like his Archie counterpart but the mandates keep him in check because thats not who Shadow is in the main canon. Shadow isn’t super emotional and friendly like he is in Archie. Shadow is compassionate but he’s reserved, he’s calm and collected. Or how Ian made Archie Shadow’s goals revolve around Maria but in the games, Shadow works to protect the world on his own will, not for Maria since he let her go back in 2005. The mandates exist to keep things like this from happening.
This is an excellent example! I completely understand where Sega are coming from. Ian wants what Archie has, however if Archie were ever to get a sniff of anything that Sega might agree upon. They'll throw hands wherever they can. I do believe that the interactions we got from frontiers was a good introduction to what we want. Instead of just throwing around corny jokes every 5 seconds, they look into their own concerns and instead of Sonic coming back with a happy go easy comeback, he steps back and listens, he feels it. If they can use that and create or go further with those emotions and stories, I'd be sold. Thanks for your awesome comment! This is some great info!
I agreed . If Sega was taking their extra time and development sonic 06 going through scripts writers and graphics looks.
The game would be on par if not better than Sonic P-06! Maybe one day we will see a polished remaster or remake
As for the mandates, I kinda understand Sega wanting to put some rules in place to organize the franchise.
Things like Sonic not dating anyone is understandable, although this is coming from someone who loves Sonally (and in my opinion the best Sonic ship).
Now, Shadow without friends, Sonic not being able to cry and disregarding Archie Comics is something that drives me seriously. And those who have to deal with these horrible changes are writers like Ian Flynn
I hope this doesn't happen again in the coming years -_-
Great video btw
Amazing comment! Yes rules are good to have a good structure but if they’re too complicated, they can destroy instead of build. I do feel sorry for Ian, it would be such a hassle with creativity, knowing he has so many fall backs. Hopefully over the next few years we’ll more and more change for the better of sonics future! Thanks for your amazing comment 😁
Underrated editing.
Still working on flow and transitions but thank you! I do put a lot of effort into these and they will only get better
I feel as that it's not just the mandates but also the way we (the west) have changed Sonic so much to the point that no one knows what's canon anymore. There's so many versions of Sonic now that people think it's all the same timeline due to the jumbled mess of references and . I personally believe that the characters should stay the same but they should also have room to grow like Knuckles wanting to find out more about his ancestors and Amy chilling out on chasing Sonic.
Btw, look up the Japanese translation of the original Frontiers story because I feel the English version tampered a fair bit with Sonic and the characters I mentioned, especially Amy (How they did Tails is fine though, it's mostly the same with both versions). You can like the English version if you want, I just think the changes came out of nowhere and feel forced in compared to the Japanese version.
Actually Frontiers was written in America first. It’s Japan that changed the script.
Since around Colors, The scripts were written in America first.
A very good point! So many different people or studios jumped in to give their spin on sonic. This however made things messy. If we use frontiers as an example of a “clean slate” They can introduce their concerns but not stray away from the true characters we know them to be. If they took that away then the transition is no better than that of the “Boom move” I’ll check it out in Japanese as I never actually did this! Very great points, thank you for pointing this out!
@@kendraroth1276 That actually makes sense since I thought the stories were kind of lacking so far. Even with Frontiers, I felt like there was something a bit off. Thanks for the clarification.
@@7orisu No problem. I might not know everything about it, but I noticed that the two different scripts don't get mentioned enough. One just felt more in character to me while the other was just a bit odd.
To be fair to Sega of America and Sega of Europe, up until the release of "Sonic Adventure" in 1999, other than core descriptions and characteristics of the then core cast of Sonic characters (i.e. Dr. Robotnik/Eggman, Knuckles, Tails, and Sonic), and the then main plot of the Sonic franchise (i.e. Robotnik wants to take over the world & roboticize all biological life, and Sonic & friends fight to stop him), Sega of Japan gave the western regions next to no core Sonic franchise lore and world building material to work with, nor had any hard-line rules to adhere to.
So I can't exactly fault the western regions for coming up with their own version of Sonic franchise lore to work around and with (Fleetway Sonic lore for Europe, and ultimately centering around SatAM Sonic lore for America, respectively).
It just really bums me out that Sega of Japan REFUSES to acknowledge, let alone utilize Sonic related locations (Knothole Village, Robotropolis, (the planet being called Mobius)), world building elements (power rings, roboticization), and ESPECIALLY characters that Sega LEGALLY owns (Sally Acorn, Bunnie Rabbot, Snivley Robotnik, Ixis Nagus, Porker Lewis, Tenko the Canary, Scratch, Coconuts, Breezie the Hedgehog, Katella, Charles "Uncle Chuck" the hedgehog, Lupe the Wolf, etc.) created by their western counterparts (be it out of jealousey/spite for the things their western counterparts came up with, legal complications due to the actions of a rogue few individuals in non Japanese regions, and/or the desire to have absolute control and creative say in the lore building and world establishing, regarding the Sonic franchise (or a combination of all of the above)).
Pretty sure it's SEGA rushing the developers since the early 2000s
Hell even Sonic 2 was rushed.
You’re right, that’s a whole other topic on its own! But very good point
Sega has been rushing Sonic devs from the jump, literally every title; crazy.
@@Cloke100Sonic 06 being number one 🥲
1:34 but they literally did that!! If you take a look at sonic frontiers and sonic's dialogues you will see sonic in this quote says:((wish we were sharing an umbrella Amy)) or ((Amy..I should've made up my mind sooner)) they clearly did show some interests that is sonic has some intrest to Amy and clearly Sega was teasing that whole sonamy again and making sonic have some interest towards Amy now..
Absolutely! In frontiers they have catered to the audience while keeping things mild. I believe what they’re doing is a great transition into future games and can’t wait to see how it looks in the next main game.
@@7orisu the future of blue blur in my opinion seems to be really bright.
But right now I will just wait for sonic frontier 2 and the game of the year sonic X shadow generations my only concern about that game is shadow's story hopefully he gets his identity back and sole character development for god sake...he was butchered for a long time.
@@user-vt6dd4kz5t I totally agree with you! Let's see how they play our edgy hedgehog for the character he is supposed to be and if they can get that right. It means we have a good indication what they'll do for the rest of the cast
The intro, I thought of sonic forces and sonic forces overclocked
Another amazing example! So many good fan games have been created recently
@@7orisu I know right
What they really need to do is make everyone else besides Sonic's super forms actually cool and different
This comment right here! They've got the super forms down, just need to create a more dynamic and cool feel to the other characters
@@7orisu Right! What they should do is make them a different enough color and change one thing about their design, like how Super Sonic is golden with standing up quills. For example, Super Amy could be Rose-Gold
Unfortunately... Sega will continue to play it safe for better profits.
I honestly believe Yuji Naka holds responsibility for this endless consequence, leaving the team with two separate games and a deadline for the holidays?
I personally love Sonic 06 but I wish they could have done more potential of it.
Absolutely! I wish and dream they would tap into what they wanted for Sonic 06, it was a good fresh take! And giving more time with just this game, I believe it could've change so many other games after 06. I get they're trying to play things safe, but it doesn't make the games any better than the lack of what they have brought to us. Maybe one day, I'm hopeful! But for now, I'll enjoy the fan remaster. 😅
@@7orisu Hey at least it will never be forgotten, and in the best way 👍
I see the Mandates as Sega's reflect on failed sonic games.
Absolutely, I just hope that they'll do something about it in the near future. Maybe from the games we get will we see improvements.
1:07 could you send a link to the source you used for these supposed mandates?
It's on the Sonic fandom wiki :) - sonic.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000200167
Nice video! I agree with the idea that forcing everything into the mandates and even being "canon" is overall limiting. Canonicity has literally never stopped anyone from enjoying a product. People love SatAM and Sonic X despite neither being "canon" but now with Prime it has to be "canon" and now we have to treat it that way instead of letting it do it's own thing. Even the comics have to be mostly static with the game characters only the comic ocs get to have character arcs.
On an unrelated note I like the editing but the Sound effects are a bit extra I would focus more on visual editing tbh and only adding sfx if it's for comedix effect or to emphasize something important otherwise it's just noisy. That's just how I feel though in the end of the day it's your video you should do what you want to 👍🏼
Absolutely! I miss the days of Sonic X being its own thing, and if the movies can do this why can other stuff do that as well? It’s like the comics, shows and movies have to follow the games but can’t have their own thing because it “butts heads” with the main media. And thanks! This is a new editing style I’m trying out so it’s a hit or miss period at the moment. I’ve had a few people mention the sfx and to add them less, I’ll try it for my next video so it’s not so much. Thanks for bringing this up and your awesome input! 😁
The thing I am worried about is after the rehash growth the heroes have in Sonic Frontiers. Flynn will just act like they are “concluded” when it comes to character development when there is so much more to do with them.
Not saying it has to be all the time but once in awhile.
Media like Sonic x did a great job expanding existing characters especially Tails in the Meterex saga after the adventure character development showing there is more to do with the characters. In my opinion that whole arch was mainly focused on Tails.
Absolutely! I hope this is just the start to their troubles and trials. I’m hoping that at the end of frontiers when everyone went their separate ways for their own goals, it’ll give the opportunity for their own stories to be told in future games! 😊
Idk to be honest, Flynn once said he was “concluding” the characters.
Still guess they have good reasons, as long as they make up for it with good moments for the characters.
Forgive me for being a downer, but I’m not entirely confident in Sega’s spring cleaning of Sonic…which by the way has been going on for seventeen years!
Now I know that the mandates was severely tightened was mostly because of Archie and ‘He who shall not be named’ but that was mostly because of Sega’s own arrogance, mostly Sega of Japan who didn’t care about what went down in the west much back in the day. But now they do…well they have a big bad habit of over correction.
I mean as of right now, Sega is prioritizing consistency, especially with the IDW comics being canon to the games. But that ironically stifles creativity. The comics now have to tip-toe around the games to avoid contradicting themselves…even though they already did. The original characters of the comics don’t have that much restrictions, thus their stories have more meat while the game characters feel like corporate mascots. Sure there are a few exceptions but the restrictions are still there.
And while Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow SEEM to be improving, Amy is kinda suffering. Her ‘character development’ if you call it that for the comics and especially the games as of late seems more like obligation because people found her original personality annoying. Now they took away that but didn’t replaced it with anything. She’s very dull now. Sure, one could say it’s because of the tone of Frontiers, but Tailstube doesn’t have me positive for Amy in the future. She’s just…the girl of the group who’s kind of the mother hen.
I know she was based on Minnie Mouse but she didn’t have to literally be her.
You’re absolutely right! There’s so much to be done, and whether or not they’ll make changes in different aspects or not is still to be seen, they loosened areas but a lot of areas still are held down because of what has happened before.. I just hope that at some point, Sega will see what they’re doing and allow things to change for the better. Or change the mandates. This is great input! I love the IDW series and hope they can continue to evolve and have more creativity, much like the main series.
I see your points but I would say that the cleaning has been strong so far due their focus on character consistency and story telling while also letting these characters feel different emotions and I'm not sure if the IDW comics are completely canon because they are doing there own thing and pivotal characters like Surge, Whisper, Starline, and Kit haven't been mentioned yet and it's possible that the some of the events from the comics are canon but done differently in the games.
I would say that Amy has been done well because they still keep her love of Sonic but they emphasized her compassionate side that people loved her for in games like SA1 and 2 which is seen in Frontiers and the IDW comics has these elements while also having her struggle with being a leader, being a emotional pillar for her friends, and trying to give enemies like Surge and Kit a chance while still having her passionate side that wants to protect her friends.
Honestly really like what tou said in this video but maybe change your editing style to not be that much in your face and tiktok video like( if that makes sense) but hey nuce video tho new sub for you
I honestly use to hate this style, the major popping with the quick transition etc, was never what felt natural to me. But unfortunately it’s what works in today’s social media, I try to find a solid line between what I want in my style and what the audience see’s. I’ll do what I can to still find that line though, thank you for showing the concern, I appreciate it! 😊
Can't agree more
@@7orisu i hope you succeed my friend!
I like the editing!
Thanks! Still improving but plenty more to come! 😁
Nah sonic team just needs to stop listening to fans and make something original
It’s like so many people are pulling at him that he’s now distorted. While listening to fans is crucial. They also need to listen to themselves and get back into the drawing board, keep the fundamentals but make something fresh.
They need to start something from scratch.
Bad Sonic game idea: a Sonic Game where all the zones are time periods!
I dont want to play green hill zone anymore
Please dont make me play green hill zone anymore sega
Green hill zone is the equivalent to Charizard in pokemon, its there and will forever be there 🥲
Sonic games are done for with me. Besides some remasters but even those can have issues.
I get it, I really do. I was done, after so many tries to believe that sonic games could actually be good and just being disappointed. But I’m also the idiot that keeps coming back every time haha!
Nice editing bro 👌 👍
Thanks! Still got lots to improve on but I appreciate it!
Booooooooo!!!!! to the rules
Yes!🙌
I really like the editing but I’m not a big fan of the 60fps filter.
cool video man 👍
Thanks! More coming very soon 😁
You remind me a lot of mr bane
Big inspiration of mine! 😊
Good points but you don't need a looney tunes boing sound every half a second
Damn! 😅 Do you suggest a better alternative sound? How about the more 'UI SFX' type sounds?
@7orisu yeah maybe when you shift topics and not with every point.
You do understand that theses mandates are only for the comics and not the games right?
Sorry?.. Since when? It literally mentions the games in the mandates multiple times.
@@7orisu game characters
Y’all Still Complaining About Sonic? Y’all need to chill. It’s Not That Serious bro
Especially with the new stuff we’re getting! Looks so good, I know fans that take this stuff straight to heart, which I can understand. I’ll play a sonic game regardless of its outcome ‘except boom, won’t play that again’ just interesting how the games have veered in different directions because of things that have happened in the past and the rules that were placed so solidly.