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410 Fiocchi 3" Loading (New Hulls) 3/4oz 8 shot. 40yd Patterning. Good, Bad and Ugly!!!!!
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- Опубліковано 24 січ 2023
- Hey folks,
Today we are putting together some 3" 410 hulls in 3/4oz 8 shot. Give it a look and let me know what you think about the hulls at the end.
Thanks for watching.
In my experience, whatever your max distance is with other guages, you'll find your max distance with the 410 to be about 10 yards less. With that in mind, I'd pattern at 30 yards instead of 40.
Don't know the exact cause of the hull damage, but they are definitely getting too hot. Maybe the friction from the unprotected shot column? Might try some buffer or a full-length wad.
Smaller shot sizes work best. The 410 maxes out with #6. Anything larger performs poorly - until you get to double and triple ought and slugs. Those work okay.
It's definitely a fun little cartridge, and the older I get, the more I find myself reaching for the lighter 410...........😏
I really like the show I will say 410s have changed after 50 plus years away from 410 shooting and loading I purchased a 410 sxs love the gun fun to shoot . In my youth I loaded many thousands 410 shells for a single shot shot gun that I still have so I went back to the same load that I used as a kid and wow 3/4oz went threw the conograph at 1280 now that is a little hot but shot fine I always shot the WinAA wad and 2400 powder now the wads you get are claybuster and look the same but I think the plastic is different seems stiffer than I remember and the powder could be a little different over the years so my powder charge will need to be adjusted down a little but am happy with what I see at 30 yards 90 % patern in 30 inch circle and 100 % in 34 inches improved mod choke slowing the load should make pattern even better no.8 shot thank you for your content keep it up
My BP roll crimped hulls do the same thing. I can cut them down to a little over 2 1/2 and then cut them again for a 2 inch short range 410 round perhaps using Nitro cards instead of a plastic wad. Like you said that is what it is all about , we learn , we experiment and we grow in the hobby. I love reloading and have for 43 years.
Thanks for watching. And yes...with 410 hulls these days....we need every use out of them we can get.
Yes Fiocchi 410 hulls have done that to me on reloads . I believe I changed my wads and they work fine now !
What wads did you change to?
Thanks! I tested this load a year ago and got 1131 fps with 62% pattern at 40yards. I went away from this load as I was able to get 67% patterns at 40yards by dropping the charge from 3/4 to 11/16 and using a claybuster wad with H110/Win296. Seems the claybuster helped keep the pattern better than the stump wad even though I was able to dial the fps up to 1170 while using Hogden powder. None of my lilgun loads had the messed up hull like yours. Even though your fold crimps actually looked better than mine (also made on MEC 600jr).
I feel that through my testing the 410 black hulls using the steel shot wad from BP stops much of the burning ont he wad,. I am using WW296.
I have two 410's, both suvival type guns and use buck and slugs mostly. It amazes me how much more this gauge costs to buy, especially since your using a fraction of the materials
At 40 yards it’s very good. Great patterns for 410 when 25-30 yards is usually the maximum.
Thanks for all the info. Great work, complete follow through the whole cycle. Most people just show assembly and move on, you give us much more.
You're welcome. I may actually get away from the assembly part as youtube doesn't care for folks to show how to "make" ammunition. May focus more on results in the future.
@@bullet225ho I can understand that direction but, there are ways to work within that dynamic. There are plenty of assembly videos on YT. You can display components arranged in visually understandable patterns. If a unique situation arises you can show that snippet of assemblage to describe those differences. All I’m saying is there are MANY ways to step up your video contents to 1.) comply with YuK tube and 2.) elevate your ammo descriptions. Few changes to your current “SOP” would really need altered. At First you could just leave out a few steps and refer to earlier videos already produced or have a specific video to post to an individual with questions. Questions, drop me a line.
Excellent, who dont love a 410
Thanks. 410 is fun to mess with....that's for sure
Thankyou very good video good audio as well. Not a terrible pattern but pretty good for the little pea shooter. I have a Mossberg over and under love it. The pattern has some holes and wonder if there is a way to eliminate that. What about the BP 410 wad from Ballistic. ??? I am also doing some evalutations on the little gun even though I have nice 12 gauges there is just something about the small bore that I love, perhaps my childhood shooting the Mossberg 183B bolt gun. Thankyou much enjoy your expertise and we are all still learning .
I would like to see 30 yard patterns with 2.5" hulls and #8 and 9 shot with a 20" target. Especially patterns using various chokes. The 410 works well with smaller shot. 7.5, 8, 8.5 and 9 shot. #6 and up are too big.
Thanks for watching. I'll have to get more 2.5 loads put together and patterned.
Agreed 💯%. Couple friends wanted me to load 2.5" 1/2oz #5. It's way too course a pellet. Only bout 92 pellets in a half oz. But they're shooting garden varmints at 25 yds max. 🤷♂️
Like to see the 410 patterns with 2 1/2” #8’s , 7 1/2’s , and #9’s at 35 or 40 yards For Most of us shooting clays that’s usually the range we are shooting at.
Just started loading the 410 using the same recipe and had the same hull damage I suspect its the Fiocchi hulls are very stiff compared to others. I think the standard pattering the 410 is 30 yards. This should make a good woodcock, quail, rabbit and squirrel load.
Fiocchi huls can be prone to this even on there factory loads it's made worse by the long shot column scrubbing up the inside of the case and case mouth . Felt wads are popular in the UK and these give the same problems with case mouth damage and tearing the crimp on the first firing so I tend to load felt wads in cases that have been used a few times so if they get ripped up I just trim them down and use for roll crimp 2 1/2" or slug loads .
As for patterning 🤔 40yds with lead shot is pushing it to the max that first modified pattern should be mustard at 25/30 yards 👍 loving the 410 vids keep them coming
Looking forward to the next one
I may start patterning the lead 410 loads at 30. I'm seeing that is probably max range for the amount of shot in this tiny barrel.
FIOCHI ARE NOT EVEN NEW RELOABLES ARE ONLY A PICE OF GARBAGE PERIOD
One nice thing, when you figure out how they are damaged you can cut the 3" down and use them at 2-1/2" so no loss.
Exactly what I did. Thanks for watching
AHHAHAHAHA GOOD IDEA BUT FIOCHI ARE GARBAGE SORRY BUT TRUE
Great video. JUST GOT SOME 3" AND I'LL TRY SOME.
Standard patterning practices for most gauges except 410 is done at 30yds...410 is done at 15yds..because of the limited shot count according to the Lyman shot gunners manual. Still interesting to see how far you can stretch a 410 using different wads and chokes
I think standard practice is 30" circle at 40yds in all gauges except 410. 410 is 25 or 30 yds and 30" circle (also other gauges with Cyl and Skeet are 30yds) I went to 40 on this one as it's 3/4oz load... should work well at 40 on doves if the pattern would hold up.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO ONLY IN NORTH AMERICA WICH ARE GOOD WITH RIFLES BUT NOT WITH SHOTGUNS ***** ALWAY PATTERN A SHOT GUN AT 40 ***** P E R I O D MY FRIEND
The stump wad is the culprit.
I loaded the mg410 and stump loads from bpi in 3/4oz with #7.5 and #6 lead shot. I loaded the mg410 in 11/16oz as well. All using litttle gun powder and new fiocchi hulls.
All the hulls with the mg410 look great.
The hulls with the stump wads are almost all streched or torn.
I watched your video before loading. I wondered if the velocity/pressure could make a difference in the hulls with the stump wad . I only loaded them to the bpi load for 1,000fps.
I'd say from your observations and mine....It's the stump wad. I think all the exposed shot coming out frays and mangles the end of the hull. It would make sense that the more protected the shot is the better shape the hull will be. I'm also seeing this in steel loads where the shot isn't completely protected. Also have witnessed this in some factory bismuth loads where all the shot isn't in the cup.
@@bullet225ho I believe you are correct. I'm a little surprised the mg410 loads dont tear/ stretch the hulls. The 3/4 loads have about half the shot out of the wad.
Have you tried the stretch wads ? I'm thinking about ordering some soon . Bpi only lost them up to 5/8 oz shot while the manufacture list them up to 11/16 oz. They look like hey will hold most if not all of the shot in the wad.
I thought I’d try this load if your pattern looked nice. Pattern didn’t scare me nearly as much as the torn “precious” 3” hulls!
I’m editing this after posting a comment here that I had no trouble with stump in another load. Looking at my manual, it was the BX wad.
Anyway, as for me, I’m going to stay with 40yds because like you, I pattern for hunting. And, being 110% honest, I’m going to stretch a shot at a dove to 45 yds. I’d prefer 25-30 yds shots at every bird but that’s not realistic. Knowing that 40yd pattern is the only way you can be confident in knowing your lead and making the shot.
Oh, and where you were going at the end of the video, every grain of powder does add up. Especially if you use Alliant that just went up 30% to a stupid price. Anything other than TSS won’t be loaded with Alliant from here on out.
I shoot the lil TriStar Cobra, also. I find a nice 40 yard pattern, I’ll definitely share with you. - keep on showing the pattern boards… great vids! 👍🏻
Hull damage is definitely from the stump wad.
I load these hulls with either the stretch wad and a 5/8oz load with lil gun, or I use the claybuster waa410hs and 15gr of win296 for a 3/4oz load.
Both buffered(payload adjusted for buffer), 6gr in the 5/8 and 8gr in the 3/4, and both pattern very well and none of my hulls deform like that.
Thanks for the info.
Would a mylar wrap help that pattern out if it doesn't affect the column height too much? How about using a felt over-shot wad? Would it help the crimp damage?
Do you draw the circle first and put the bead in the center? That would tell you if the barrel is bent. I shoot first then use a stiff, clear plastic circle and move it around until it covers most of the pattern. I do not count pellet holes! I look for holes in the pattern and I want to know the diameter of the pattern. Thanks for the vid!
A thin layer of mylar may help with hull damage. I doubt that it would affect pattern at all. It may affect the total weight of the load as some volume would be taken up by the mylar.
I shoot the pattern at the center of the paper then draw the circle around the most shot.
Thanks for watching
I had that happen to me with the hulls being mess up and damage on my 28 gauge hulls by using BPI brush wad with the Winchester AA hulls. The brush wad look just like the stump wad on your 410. I ended not using them anymore because it like a one shot deal, can't reload it again, and I also found the pattern isn't all that great for close up shots what is it was design for. It not worth it to me. So I went back using the Win AA wad and use more open choke for the close range shots and still can continue reloading the same hulls again. It's all trial and error I guess.
Thanks for the feedback. Could be the stump wad for sure. Thanks for watching
Just starting to get my feet wet with reloading 410, and was reading in ballistic products manual that the stump wads are meant for closer range. They have a mg410 wad that is more cupped and was wondering if it would be better at range. Let me know what you thoughts are
I got this load from the BPI manual. It's only one I could find that was 3/4in Fiocchi. The stump wad is not really good with larger shot or the 3" shells. I wanted to do a video showing loading a new Fiocchi hull and that's the load I picked. Thanks for watching
Looks a decent pattern on paper but at 40 yds No8 shot will lose its kinetic energy great video by the way
I load bismuth and steel/tss in 20ga with lil gun. Never seen that case mouth damage. It’s a decent powder, fairly consistent, just kinda dirty.
I've shot thousands with lil gun in 28ga and only time I ever seen anything close to this (and not that bad) is developing 7/8oz steel load in 3" 28.
would definitely like to see 410 loads patterned at 15 to 30 yards / a friend had similar results with hull damage with this same hull!
I've started doing the 410 at 25 and 30yds. I'm going to try some full size wads with these hulls and see what happens. I'd really hate for these to be a 1 and done on 3" and have to cut them down to 2.5"
Anychace you could get your hands on some BPI Max410 wad. Love to see how they would work.
Also would like to see a video on your trace tool.
My next order will probably have max 410 on it. right now they aren't in stock. The stretch wad looks promising too. I may look into putting together some footage on the Pressure Trace.
Looks like a grouse and dove hammer! I would like to see these shells patterned with #6 or #7 1/2 shot. Do you think you could swap bismuth for lead in this load?
Not just swap it out as is. would need a powder change and such. I have a bismuth load here. ua-cam.com/video/4gtEkVZveUA/v-deo.html
Great video; but sadly, not much real information.
What is this "psi Test device" you have?
What %-age of the .410 hulls were deformed as to be un-reloadable? I have _never_ seen a hull deformed like that in 50 years of shooting at ranges, & my own reloads; albeit not .410!
It has been 7 months, now, would you attribute this to your specific load or the integrity of the Hull used?
Have you developed a load you would shoot Trap with -- from a .410?
That's good for a 410
Thanks for this Video. I especially like the idea of seeing the pattern of the shot at different yardage. I just got back into reloading 410 shotgun loads. I noticed you load each shell by hand, is that because the loader gives poor measurements of powder and shot??
Your welcome and thanks for watching. Yes, I load each shell by hand just to get proper measurement from shell to shell. If you're comfortable with your charge bar then by all means use it for what it was put there for. I just like everything to be equal.
Curious to know what primer you would use to reprime these if you’d load it again? I got my hands on some but only have cheddites on hand so I don’t have a way to follow the data with fio primers
Did you ever consider using a felt tipped pen to mark each pellet hole. I do that when I pattern loads, marking each hole as I count it. On your video, I can hardly see the pellet holes. Also, marking them would make it easier for you to evaluate your different patternings, with a lot less eye strain.
They are marked with a huge fat sharpie. I'm not sure I could mark them any darker. I'll try and get better lighting or closer to the pattern paper next time. Thanks for watching
Is 3 inch 6 shot considered a magnum load for a 410?
So your guy! Lol i put 2 bags of them in my cart last week and by the time i checked out they were out of stock.
Wasn't me....I ordered about 3 weeks ago. LOL They'll show back up.
I dont have a fold crimper could I roll crimp these Thanks
Very nice are/will you be doing any 20g loading videos Steel or tss or duplex ?
It's looking that i'll lean into 20 slowly. Have to get components together.
My can please try to make a 45 slug for a 410 and put some shot with it and try shooting it and see if it will work a 410 shotgun my brother
What type of pre-crimp is that? My Mec has the plastic spindex mec one, and it works fine.
It's the BPI brass crimp starter. I use it on new hulls mostly. If it's on a machine for a video on once fired hulls It's because it was already on there.
I’d love to see some AA HS 2 1/2 hulls with non toxic shot if you’d ever catch a wild hair and decide to load one up. That seems to be the only shells I can find now days
I'm working on some. may be a month or two.
I’m new to reloading 3” .410 . I’m trying Remington once fired hulls using 12.5 gn Lil Gun, clay buster wads and 11/16 of #6 lead for squirrel hunting. Loaded hulls show shot dimples and are chambers tight. Could this be caused by over crimping?
Could be a beet deep on crimp depth...could be that that hull doesn't have quite enough room for the components. Where did you get your data?
@@bullet225ho Lyman Reloading Handbook 5th Edition.
Page 215
I purchased a good pile of 2.5" primed cheddite hulls(1,000) is there a wad for lead shot grouse loads you like besides a federal .410sc? Theyre discontinued and all load info i have calls for it of course
You can use the clay buster 410 wad. It's pretty much a direct substitute for the 410SC. Model # CB5050-410HS (SP410, 410SC, WAA41, WAA410HS)
@@bullet225ho sweet thanks
Man I'd die if I grabbed one bags worth!! Hahaha. Trying to load up turkey loads suck right now.
I'll be doing a give away soon. 3" 410 hulls will be in the give away. Look out for the video. They are hard to come by. I was lucky enough to grab 1000 from a supplier.
Pattern 410 at 30m
Where are you getting the data for 3/4 ounce ??? 11/16 is the most I have data for. I would use a different wad like a Stretch wad from Ballistic Products and I think you will have a much better result.
The data is from BPI. Advantages Manual. I think I referenced it in the video. 11/16 with WinAA wad or Stretch would probably help the hull damage for sure. Thanks for watching
Also the BPI Small Bore has more loads plus loads for AA Rem Fed hulls. I’m looking at the exact load demonstrated in this video in my Advantages.
Locate an old Lyman #2 shot shell manual. You’ll find 3/4oz. load data upto 12200 fps.
@@bullet225ho What about a stretch with a mylar wrap , seems like that might help keep things tighter or with 410 is the Mylar just a fairy tale. I think the lead shot is tearing up the hull lips. I would try #6 shot with a claybuster and I bet that 40 yard pattern would be tighter. Nice video as usual. so informative.
👍💯⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Can anyone guide me to where on earth I can buy some 3" 410, hulls????
Where you located?
Where did you find the hulls? Bpi shows out of them for months now.
BPI, Prairie Wind, Precision......They show up from time to time. have to snatch them up for sure.
@@bullet225ho thanks.
Powder used?
my buddy who owns a shop finally took shipment of 2 cases of win aa 7.5s. Needless to say when they were dropped off they never hit yhe shelf. I bought them both. 17/box. I couldnt bitch at all
Hey man who has the best way for a few days
Best way for what? not sure I understand your question. Thanks for watching.
Never use Lil gun powder in .410!!!!!! It develops tremendous pressure compared to any other .410 powders!!! Why don’t you use the 300-MP Alliant powder you have on your shelf behind you????? If you run out of crimp height, trim off the end of the petals about 1/8” at a time. If you compare data you’ll notice L/Gun develops as much as 2000 more pressure than other powder using the same primers, wads, and amount of shot???? My favorite shot charge is 5/8oz. as it 1275-1325fps depending on primer, wad, and powder choice. I pattern my 410 at 30 yards, as that the longest distance we can shoot at my club, safely! All my 410’s pattern 80%-100% at that distance.
Lil gun was introduced expressly for .410. I've seen .357 mag data too. .410 with 3/4 ounce #5 would really interest me as a serious squirrel load. I think using a shot cup wad for tighter patterns is probably more appropriate for what I need. Wing shooting isn't likely for me.
Lil Gun is notorious for ruining hulls, just like you experienced. 296/H110 is a prefered powder to reduce this ruination.
How about doing a video on nickel plated shot vs magnun shot vs chilled shot, on patterning with the .410 or 28 gauge.
.410's are typically patterned at 25 yards in a 20" circle, unlike other gauges which are patterned at 40 yards in a 30" circle.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the comments. If shot was free I'd load a bunch and pattern it in everything. I would like to try some magnum vs nickel shot in both gauges. Also have this hair up my tail about working up a plated 6 shot load in 28 (1oz) for turkey....you know...a cheaper alternative to the $6 a shot TSS loads. Keep it effective inside of 40yds (most turkey hunters worth their salt shoot under that)
fiochi hulls are garbage to reload do not use them period (fed,winchester,chedite ,remington are good at list for 10 reload )