Whats interesting is I just bought a new Charter Arms Undercover for about $250 and these same guns were selling new back in 1982 for $200. They say the quality was better on the older Charters however after having quite a bit of the old and new Charter revolvers the new ones are just as good if not better. Mostly because of the new light weight materials they use now on the new guns. I highly recommend getting one they are a very good deal for a reliable revolver. I like the Charters more than I do the Taurus as far as cheap guns are concerned.
Those black grips are wrong they look like they are for a square butt gun , how does the small ones fit the back strap looks to long for them, it look like the model 36 S&W, sell it to me
I liked mine carried it too, the only problem with mine it would fall apart after shooting. cylinder stop mainly, and any other pins. traded it for a Colt detective special miss the little guy still
I bought one for my mother back in 1983 as she went through a violent divorce with my step dad; A restraining order in hand and charter 38 with range time. Gladly she never had to use it. She passed away in 2010 (Cancer) and my sister gave this to me as we were packing out the house. I keep it locked up in a safe with the same 50 round box of ammo with 15 rounds fired from it. Same box as illustrated and I cleaned it up a bit. I periodically will take it out, oil it, and spin the cylinder.
glad you could keep your Charter in the family a3ddj Sounds like you should take it out and shoot it, and keep your Mom in your thoughts while you spend some time with it. Stay safe , Jon.
I have the same gun. I too bought this gun for my dad in 1962. When my dad died in 2005 I found it in his closet. The gun had 5 moldy bullets in it. He told me where it was before he passed and told me he never shot it . The old box of shells were even with it minus the 5 that were in the gun. I did clean it up because of the moldy bullets. Took it to the range and it performed perfectly. PS...at the range I fired those same bullets that were in the gun. Not too sure why dad never shot the gun. I think he just wanted the knowing that he had a little security if he needed it. Thanks for listening to a old timer story.
Excellent overview of this classic snubbie. I bought my Charter Arms Undercover in 1981 and paid $190 for it (serial number 680xxx). At the time, I mistakenly thought it was a so-called "Saturday night special", a cheap and shitty handgun, but I was young and it was all I could afford. Over the years, though, I've really come to appreciate this gun, and because I can now legally carry, I carry it almost daily. (My other carry is a Kahr CM9, another modest but excellent handgun imo.) Even after over 35 years, the bluing is still immaculate, the cylinder lockup is super tight, and the "splinter" grips are in excellent shape. My only mishap was losing the ejector rod while firing it at the range one day, but I ordered a replacement from Charter Arms and used loctite to secure it.
I own one of these and love it,in the summer time it IS my main carry gun. Mine was made circa 1982/1983. It's a well built little gun,thanks for sharing your review
These are actually pretty well built. Especially with the 1 piece steel frame. Mine is fairly accurate with 168gr semi-wadcutters I can put all 5 rds in a playing card at 7 yards.
Mine is also an older vintage one from Stratford, and it's actually very smooth. I think the owner before the guy that sold it to me had a gunsmith smooth it out!!! Cause the trigger is just as any Smith&Wesson that I've ever owned, and the double action is under 10lbs which from videos I'm seeing isn't the norm for the double action trigger, and single action is like a 2lb dream, breathe on the single action trigger and it'll shoot
I have three in that vintage- 2 blued one stainless (which I have never seen another stainless one). The older Stratford CT ones are definitely nicer than the current manufacture models. Cool that you have the original box, none of mine have the box.
Ah yes the Charter Underdogs... Handy little guns ive had a lot of them around they are very useful and good guns that tend to stick around while other newer guns have been sold off
I have the same gun, with the box and paperwork. It was $139 in 1979 (new). Model 1832 Undercover. Good little CCW gun for a small guy like me. Charter Arms said +P's are probably OK for defense, but don't feed them on the range all the time because they were never rated for them. Mine came new with the smooth wood grips with the Charter emblem in them. Minne is marked Strattford, Cn in the 490k serial range. Good gun
For those interested in 1st Gen. Charter Arms; All First Generation Charter Arms firearms were operated by the same ownership before changed hands and will say one of three things on the right side of the barrel, either: 1. CHARTER ARMS CORP. (There won't be a City Listed)(These are rare) 2. CHARTER ARMS CORP. over BRIDEGPORT CONN. 3. CHARTER ARMS CORP over STRATFORD CONN. All 1st Gen. are generally considered good quality in comparison to their price at the time.
Jon-Bob Munden was a rare talent. We can do some of the things he did, but as for some of his other feats, we would need 500 rounds and a fair amount of luck. One of the things that amazed me about the older time shooters was Bill Jordan of the Texas Rangers. He could draw his M19 Smith from holster and hit aspirin size targets from 10 feet away in .3 seconds total time. What that means is that a perp could have the drop on him, but he would be able to hit the eye before perp's rxn time!!
Bill Jordan was also border patrol, and had a hand in helping develop the 357 mag round. He was also one of the last true old west style gunfighter/ gunslinger!!!
I bought mine at Carters in 1983! I have recently started shooting this little gun again after 20+ years. I just put a set of Pachmeyer Compac grips on it and that improved my shooting considerably. 2-3” groups at 7 yards. I just ordered a Charter Arms Pitbull .40 S&W.
The new ones come in stainless steel, shrouded ejector rod and 38 Cal +P rated. It comes with a serious, though easily correctable, defect. It comes with larger rubber grips which blocks the ejection of the shells. So you have to order the original small wooden grips. At least one if not two shells will not eject and must be manually removed to unload the gun. If you fire the gun the spent casings will have expanded and must be manually removed individually.
I have this same gun. it was my grandmother's and inherited it about 5 or 6 years ago. I've never shot it yet and just decided to get a carry license. any tips or advice would be great. what other youtube channels do you recommend for guns and ammo?
My Smith and Wesson 442 airweight snubnose J Frame revolver carries nicely in a Remora holster. Also, if I use 158 grain, even standard pressure, it's brutal. But with 130 grain or less, I have no problem shooting all day. I realize that it's all personal preference, but in my opinion a 2" snubbie is the best choice for concealed or even open carry. I'd like to get something a little bit bigger and heavier, perhaps a Charter Arms Police Undercover or a Rock Island Armory m206. I can't afford a Smith and Wesson Model 10 (2 " barrel) or a Colt Detective Special, both of which are out of production anyway.
SHPD709 Thanks for stopping by and watching. It seems the quality of Charter revolvers goes up and down, depending on how the company was doing in regards to the economy at the time. Glad you got a good one, this one is pretty good too.
I have the same .38 and I love it. I also got the rock island m206 its exactly the same oh, except it comes with a bigger gripped along with the little wood grip. $220 for the m206.
I bought a first gen charter arms undercover for $280 at a used gun shop. Did I get a bad deal? I know a lot of people said bad things about this particular 38. Not to mention, it's also the same exact gun that killed john lennon
It's solid gun that will last maybe lacks in the finish department as far as looks no Smith and Wesson but for the price around 300 it will operate that's a good deal maybe I will be looking for one after the first of the year
Thank you for a very interesting video. I agree that it is a nice little shooter but not best for a beginner. I picked mine up for $150 from a friend at the range. You are right when you say that you wouldn't want to shoot it a lot but it is fun to take out and play with sometimes.
I got this gun from my grandfather when he passed. don't know much about it interested in using it as a bedside/home protection firearm. recommended ammo?
+Maddox McLeod I would not use +P ammo, but a good quality non +P 38 Special. Just picked up some Hornady 125 gr. XTP 38 special. I may upload a video, once I give it a try.
Phillip Acosta I'm not sure which screw you need, but my first stop was Numrich Arms, and an exploded diagram and parts description. Some parts are sold out, but this site will give you the correct name at least. My second recommendation is Charter Arms website, and third stop would be Gunbroker.com Good luck Numrich Arms site www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/CharterArms-33179/Revolvers-35692/OffDuty-37981.htm
The gun has a beryllium-copper firing pin that is nearly indestructible. Robert Dunlop, master gunsmith, says he has only ever seen one broken firing pin in a Charter Arms revolver. So yeah, you can dry fire this gun.
@@jeremydawson7344 Probably about $150, you have the box so that's good, mine is about that age, I like my new one even better and it's as light and plus P rated, I've shot plus P with my old one but just once long ago , not a good idea because I doubt it's rated for it, they tell me it will shorten the life of the gun down, the new one handles it fine, but being so light you do lose some accuracy. I like these guns and will keep my old one anyhow, why sell it for so little money, it will only go up in price. Check used prices with Bass pro shop and Cabela's
I bought one of these for my mother. She shot remarkably well at the range. She kinda used it one time. A neighbor lady called and said there was a sales lady selling magazines at her door that would not leave. That she kept saying just let her in because her manger gave her points for that. So she took the gun and tucked it in her waistband with her blouse pulled over it. She found the saleslady was a man in a dress who she told to leave and “she” did so. Later I found she did not load the gun and explained to her that unloaded it was only a short $180 club. Nice gun and now they have brought it out in stainless steel and capable of +P loads.
I have one looks exactly like your .38 just bigger. I'm thinking a 70's version of the mag pug. Not for sure since I haven't been able to find one like it.
Whats interesting is I just bought a new Charter Arms Undercover for about $250 and these same guns were selling new back in 1982 for $200. They say the quality was better on the older Charters however after having quite a bit of the old and new Charter revolvers the new ones are just as good if not better. Mostly because of the new light weight materials they use now on the new guns. I highly recommend getting one they are a very good deal for a reliable revolver. I like the Charters more than I do the Taurus as far as cheap guns are concerned.
Those black grips are wrong they look like they are for a square butt gun , how does the small ones fit the back strap looks to long for them, it look like the model 36 S&W, sell it to me
I have carried a Charter Arms Off Duty .38 Special for over 40 years first as a back up gun, then as my concealed carry. Never had any problems.
I liked mine carried it too, the only problem with mine it would fall apart after shooting. cylinder stop mainly, and any other pins. traded it for a Colt detective special miss the little guy still
I bought one for my mother back in 1983 as she went through a violent divorce with my step dad; A restraining order in hand and charter 38 with range time. Gladly she never had to use it. She passed away in 2010 (Cancer) and my sister gave this to me as we were packing out the house. I keep it locked up in a safe with the same 50 round box of ammo with 15 rounds fired from it. Same box as illustrated and I cleaned it up a bit. I periodically will take it out, oil it, and spin the cylinder.
glad you could keep your Charter in the family a3ddj Sounds like you should take it out and shoot it, and keep your Mom in your thoughts while you spend some time with it. Stay safe , Jon.
I have the same gun. I too bought this gun for my dad in 1962. When my dad died in 2005 I found it in his closet. The gun had 5 moldy bullets in it. He told me where it was before he passed and told me he never shot it . The old box of shells were even with it minus the 5 that were in the gun. I did clean it up because of the moldy bullets. Took it to the range and it performed perfectly. PS...at the range I fired those same bullets that were in the gun. Not too sure why dad never shot the gun. I think he just wanted the knowing that he had a little security if he needed it. Thanks for listening to a old timer story.
Thanks for telling it!
Charter was founded in 1964
Excellent overview of this classic snubbie. I bought my Charter Arms Undercover in 1981 and paid $190 for it (serial number 680xxx). At the time, I mistakenly thought it was a so-called "Saturday night special", a cheap and shitty handgun, but I was young and it was all I could afford. Over the years, though, I've really come to appreciate this gun, and because I can now legally carry, I carry it almost daily. (My other carry is a Kahr CM9, another modest but excellent handgun imo.) Even after over 35 years, the bluing is still immaculate, the cylinder lockup is super tight, and the "splinter" grips are in excellent shape. My only mishap was losing the ejector rod while firing it at the range one day, but I ordered a replacement from Charter Arms and used loctite to secure it.
Love those classic revolvers.
Mines in old school nickel,just picked it up for 190,what a beautiful and deadly firearm
I had one of these for a while, wickedly accurate very small and lightweight, great gun!
I own one of these and love it,in the summer time it IS my main carry gun. Mine was made circa 1982/1983. It's a well built little gun,thanks for sharing your review
Thanks for watching, Roy Warren , I have begun to carry this revolver as a backup. Nice little revolver.
My primary carry tool last 40 some years
....love it.....very easy conceal and gets it done np. She's a mini beast 😍
These are actually pretty well built. Especially with the 1 piece steel frame. Mine is fairly accurate with 168gr semi-wadcutters I can put all 5 rds in a playing card at 7 yards.
Mine is also an older vintage one from Stratford, and it's actually very smooth. I think the owner before the guy that sold it to me had a gunsmith smooth it out!!! Cause the trigger is just as any Smith&Wesson that I've ever owned, and the double action is under 10lbs which from videos I'm seeing isn't the norm for the double action trigger, and single action is like a 2lb dream, breathe on the single action trigger and it'll shoot
I have three in that vintage- 2 blued one stainless (which I have never seen another stainless one). The older Stratford CT ones are definitely nicer than the current manufacture models. Cool that you have the original box, none of mine have the box.
Ah yes the Charter Underdogs... Handy little guns ive had a lot of them around they are very useful and good guns that tend to stick around while other newer guns have been sold off
Nice little gun! I still carry my 1979 S&W, model 36. They’re definitely great for appendix carry.
Beautiful i also own a charter arms revolver and they are made pretty good quality and reliable.
I 'v carried a 44spl. bulldog for many years, from charter, love it. great co.
gapster46, i may not have bought this revolver, but i'm glad I have it, now that my Dad gave it to me. Thanks for watching.
I have one similar smooth handle and was used by my brother in law as backup when he worked for Brinks Armored.I use for home protection .
Just got bought one but I have to wait a week to pick it up so watching ur review in meantime.
I have the same gun, with the box and paperwork. It was $139 in 1979 (new). Model 1832 Undercover. Good little CCW gun for a small guy like me. Charter Arms said +P's are probably OK for defense, but don't feed them on the range all the time because they were never rated for them. Mine came new with the smooth wood grips with the Charter emblem in them. Minne is marked Strattford, Cn in the 490k serial range. Good gun
.
..
hawkuser604 yeah they changed to Stratford when the company was sold you should Google the history it's a good little gun my wife carry every day
For those interested in 1st Gen. Charter Arms; All First Generation Charter Arms firearms were operated by the same ownership before changed hands and will say one of three things on the right side of the barrel, either:
1. CHARTER ARMS CORP. (There won't be a City Listed)(These are rare)
2. CHARTER ARMS CORP. over BRIDEGPORT CONN.
3. CHARTER ARMS CORP over STRATFORD CONN.
All 1st Gen. are generally considered good quality in comparison to their price at the time.
Jon-Bob Munden was a rare talent. We can do some of the things he did, but as for some of his other feats, we would need 500 rounds and a fair amount of luck. One of the things that amazed me about the older time shooters was Bill Jordan of the Texas Rangers. He could draw his M19 Smith from holster and hit aspirin size targets from 10 feet away in .3 seconds total time. What that means is that a perp could have the drop on him, but he would be able to hit the eye before perp's rxn time!!
Bill Jordan was also border patrol, and had a hand in helping develop the 357 mag round. He was also one of the last true old west style gunfighter/ gunslinger!!!
That’s awesome I just got a 1984 off duty traded a shotgun for it. Never fired with the original box and papers.
I have one that age for many years and it's excellent every time out, well made all in all.
I bought mine at Carters in 1983! I have recently started shooting this little gun again after 20+ years. I just put a set of Pachmeyer Compac grips on it and that improved my shooting considerably. 2-3” groups at 7 yards. I just ordered a Charter Arms Pitbull .40 S&W.
She's a beauty! Just saw one in a shop, may pick it up.
I bought 2 of these with 3 inch bbl. about 35 yrs. ago ,Both shoot well. Wife and I love them.
Great fast shooting there brother. I have owned 2 charter arms revolvers both were 44 spl. And both shot great.
The new ones come in stainless steel, shrouded ejector rod and 38 Cal +P rated.
It comes with a serious, though easily correctable, defect.
It comes with larger rubber grips which blocks the ejection of the shells. So you have to order the original small wooden grips. At least one if not two shells will not eject and must be manually removed to unload the gun. If you fire the gun the spent casings will have expanded and must be manually removed individually.
A 44 bulldog would be cool to own. If I ever get a chance to find one, and have the funds, may buy one. Thanks for stopping by.
What a good looking little piece. My under cover's a Taurus M85.
This gun was passed down from my granddad, carrier it all most everywhere, something forget it's in my pocket.
It is small, and easy for carry. Why I like it.
I load it with +P bullets and only fire it on new years, are those bullets safe for this gun
Sam Clark i imagine they were not designed for +p ammo, but I'm sure that the Charter Arms website would give a clearer answer. Good luck.
+Sam Clark I shoot +P in mine it was made in the 70's
There are many firearms I have sold only to regret it, soon after. Thanks for stopping by Gunz...
One of the early models and in my opion on of the best CA made.
Great guns. Pacmyers makes a compact grip that works great. Love mine.
Nice revolver my friend!
An IWB is most likely what i would use, and UM does make them. Thanks for the suggestion.
have a Taurus 85 myself its really accurate/nice weapon tom
I have this same gun. it was my grandmother's and inherited it about 5 or 6 years ago. I've never shot it yet and just decided to get a carry license. any tips or advice would be great. what other youtube channels do you recommend for guns and ammo?
I worked U/C narcotics in & around Corpus for 12yrs and carried the C/A Police Bulldog 6 shot, .38. Screwed that thing in many an ear.
Was looking for a .38 snubby as a CC option. Had one at the shop for 120.00. I snagged it up.
nice vid john
This revolver is a quite similar sized to J frame S&W's and Taurus's too, Great snubby for EDC. Thanks for watching kabar...
I have the very same pistol mine was made in 1984 and has never been shot
Thanks trees...
FC45LC, Wow , 200 yards with a snubby is quite a feat. I could never achieve that level of skill.
I have one with-in arms reach right now!!
My Smith and Wesson 442 airweight snubnose J Frame revolver carries nicely in a Remora holster. Also, if I use 158 grain, even standard pressure, it's brutal. But with 130 grain or less, I have no problem shooting all day. I realize that it's all personal preference, but in my opinion a 2" snubbie is the best choice for concealed or even open carry. I'd like to get something a little bit bigger and heavier, perhaps a Charter Arms Police Undercover or a Rock Island Armory m206. I can't afford a Smith and Wesson Model 10 (2 " barrel) or a Colt Detective Special, both of which are out of production anyway.
Mark David Chapman shot John Lennon with a charter gun like yours.
Yes, light and accurate for it's size. Thanks for watching.
Both your friend and his Charter should be fondly remembered. Thanks for watching rls303.
Not sure if you commented on this, but do you know what year your gun was manufactured?
Nice video, thank you!
i have the exact twin .. mine was made in the late 70's
I wish I could find a thick grip like that black one for mine, mine has the little grips like the set you like.
when were the nickel finish ones made? or can I tell by the serial #.
Glockerbob, A 44 Bulldog Charter would be a great EDC revolver. Thanks for stopping by.
With this older blued steel, what are y'all's thoughts on shooting +P rounds through this?
Got one from my dad that was made in 64 or 64 i believe.. Very nice.
SHPD709 Thanks for stopping by and watching. It seems the quality of Charter revolvers goes up and down, depending on how the company was doing in regards to the economy at the time. Glad you got a good one, this one is pretty good too.
I have the same .38 and I love it. I also got the rock island m206 its exactly the same oh, except it comes with a bigger gripped along with the little wood grip. $220 for the m206.
Yes they are very good guns and dependable, I have a similar one, also the new ones are excellent and not over priced.
When was charter arms undercover 38 special silver plated with serial #110034 made?
I bought a first gen charter arms undercover for $280 at a used gun shop. Did I get a bad deal? I know a lot of people said bad things about this particular 38. Not to mention, it's also the same exact gun that killed john lennon
It's solid gun that will last maybe lacks in the finish department as far as looks no Smith and Wesson but for the price around 300 it will operate that's a good deal maybe I will be looking for one after the first of the year
Yo tuve este revolver,muy pequeño para portarlo y muy efectivo,me arrepiento haberlo vendido.
Disculpe, en cuánto lo vendió, si se puede saber?
@@victorrojaspardaian76955000 pesos Mexicanos,ya estaba un poco maltratado,pero lo que le dio valia fue que no tenía mucho desgaste en el mecanismo.
Thank you for a very interesting video. I agree that it is a nice little shooter but not best for a beginner. I picked mine up for $150 from a friend at the range. You are right when you say that you wouldn't want to shoot it a lot but it is fun to take out and play with sometimes.
That sounds like a fair price, a good quality firearm for $200 is hard to find.
How does this compare to a Taurus .38? Wood grain handle
I got this gun from my grandfather when he passed. don't know much about it interested in using it as a bedside/home protection firearm. recommended ammo?
+Maddox McLeod I would not use +P ammo, but a good quality non +P 38 Special. Just picked up some Hornady 125 gr. XTP 38 special. I may upload a video, once I give it a try.
Maddox McLeod 38 hollow points light load
Where can i find the screew that gos under the nose or do i even need it? Please help.
Phillip Acosta I'm not sure which screw you need, but my first stop was Numrich Arms, and an exploded diagram and parts description. Some parts are sold out, but this site will give you the correct name at least. My second recommendation is Charter Arms website, and third stop would be Gunbroker.com Good luck
Numrich Arms site www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/CharterArms-33179/Revolvers-35692/OffDuty-37981.htm
Where did u find those thin grips
This is actually the first revolver that I have owned, carried it for a few months too. I got to sell it for $350
I just inherited a undercover 38 special I’m trying to get an idea for curiosity what it’s value is
I’d love to shoot it, but not enough interest to purchase. Looks like a fun gun to shoot.
Thanks guns4fun.....
I have the same gun with the s/n 33270. do you know when it was made?
nico193rojo this undercover was from the mid 1980's. Perhaps Charter Arm website may be answer your question directly. Good luck.
Thanks man I already found the year when it was made. it was in the early 60's by the first company in Bridgeport Connecticut. thanks again bro
I have one it's made in Stratford shoots accurate and have shot +p.
yes, new ones are plus P rated.
Hickok45 hit the gong at 80 yards with the 642 model so just because the barrel short doesn't mean you cant stretch it just got to know what you doing
Is this pistol rated for +P cartridges?
Is this gun safe to dry fire?
The gun has a beryllium-copper firing pin that is nearly indestructible. Robert Dunlop, master gunsmith, says he has only ever seen one broken firing pin in a Charter Arms revolver. So yeah, you can dry fire this gun.
How do you remove the grips on this gun?
Kostas Tjortjis you just unscrew it with a flat head screwdriver
Go with a uncle mikes holster can't go wrong
WIsh I could get one of those little fellows.
Yukon12gauge it sure is a fun little revolver to carry and shoot. Thanks for watching, and commenting.
And FYI, speedloaders do not work well with this revolver
e
Use a speed strip
5 star speed loaders work fine in my from same era.
I have an old gun ARMS I would like to know how much it is currently priced
A nice new charter arms .38 snub nose, is about $345 in 2021, also it's plus P rated, very well made .
@@shicoff1398 I just inherited a early 1971 model one just out of curiosity what is it’s value
@@jeremydawson7344 Probably about $150, you have the box so that's good, mine is about that age, I like my new one even better and it's as light and plus P rated, I've shot plus P with my old one but just once long ago , not a good idea because I doubt it's rated for it, they tell me it will shorten the life of the gun down, the new one handles it fine, but being so light you do lose some accuracy. I like these guns and will keep my old one anyhow, why sell it for so little money, it will only go up in price. Check used prices with Bass pro shop and Cabela's
I have an old 32-pistol Armis gun
I bought one of these for my mother. She shot remarkably well at the range. She kinda used it one time. A neighbor lady called and said there was a sales lady selling magazines at her door that would not leave. That she kept saying just let her in because her manger gave her points for that. So she took the gun and tucked it in her waistband with her blouse pulled over it. She found the saleslady was a man in a dress who she told to leave and “she” did so. Later I found she did not load the gun and explained to her that unloaded it was only a short $180 club. Nice gun and now they have brought it out in stainless steel and capable of +P loads.
Why this piece is not a blade runner blaster yet ? Hop hop
No reason to view a snubbie as a backup. I’ve thwarted two armed robberies with a model 49.
I had been wondering about this gun saw some at gun show here in San Antonio tx for $200.ish
Has anyone ever come across this in .357 MAG. ?
A bulldog is a little bigger frame, and can be found in 357 mag and 44 special.
I have one looks exactly like your .38 just bigger. I'm thinking a 70's version of the mag pug. Not for sure since I haven't been able to find one like it.
What you mean not something you wanna shoot alot with ????? It's the best to shoot ever!
My grandpa got one for $80
My grandpa paid 89.99. I just inherited it. Wish I knew what iys value was
Am I the only one here because its they same model used to shoot john Lennon?
Vine por lenon
Belly gun
200 bucks seems high for 1892..could have bought a python used for 300 back then
just got to play with moving everything around all the time .. so fucking bad