Well what can I say. I've been working in forests like this for about 25 years. These valleys are deep and the large leaves of the plants are due to lack of light. Plants need to have larger leaves to capture the little light that reaches these valleys. It looks like a bare forest, damp and dark. A very difficult place to walk during the day. Imagine walking in this forest at night.
@videodeecologia7468 Wow i didnt knew that you have 25 years of experience with these forests. I found this comment of you by coincidence. It deepens my estimation about your expertise (maybe you remember me - we talked not long ago about this topic - and we had quiet the same view on this case, as far i remember).
Really great work! Besides that this is really interesting and unique info, these videos show how extremely beautiful the landscape and the plants there are. Thank you for sharing.
@Romain C, in your experience, is it possible to hike down the river (for whatever reason) and get stuck in a ravine or behind a waterfall with no way to return to the starting point? Thank you for the video and hopefully for your answer in advance.
Wow Romain thanks for sharing this awesome content with us. Now i have a better overview of the situation. If they went a long the river their are indeed a lot of dangerous spots which could bring the girls in serious accidents. Also if you get apart from the trail its really horrible to find back in the middle of this thick woods its even more worst than a labyrinth to me. Hence on this facts I do pretty think that the girls could lost and succumbed to the elements. Looking forward to see more exciting content. Thank you!
Except in all of the pictures they took that day they are squarely on the trail in each and every one of them and none show any inclination to explore even just a little bit off trail. Also, surely if they'd gone off the trail into a new type of area they would have taken some pictures of this totally different scenery? They took pictures of their entire route.
@@lyndoncmp5751If they got scared or were chased off the trail they would use a river to go into the jungle. Camera may have been dropped and became waterlogged early on. Phones may have become wet at some point as well.
Awesome footage. I’m intrigued by the hidden waterfall and have thought it a possibility that the girls continued off the trail in search of something specific like that.
Makes sense. The last picture we have of them is at the stream that leads to the waterfall. I read on scarletts blog that one of myriams kids said they were going to a waterfall if I'm not mistaken. I know the eyewitnesses were all over the place though. From the looks of it this appears to be a place you could follow and then not be able to turn back.
I would like to know if they discussed the waterfall with the Dutch lads they met earlier in the week. Let’s be honest a lot of the main trail was less than spectacular and I have a sense that they were looking for a brilliant picture to upload and show their fb friends.
The problem with that is in all of the pictures they took that day they are squarely on the trail in each and every one of them and none show any inclination to explore even just a little bit off trail. Also, surely if they'd gone off the trail into a new type of area they would have taken some pictures of this totally different scenery, away from the trail? They took pictures of their entire route. Yet none after 508. If they were exploring they would have. We know this from what they did up to that point. They wouldn't have suddenly stopped taking photographs for nearly 3 whole hours before the first emergency call. I don't buy that.
Eu, nessa trilha, teria me perdido seriamente assim que adentrasse a selva. Além disso, ao me desesperar por estar perdida, caminharia mais e mais, me perdendo mais ainda.
Feliziano helped a lot in the search for months! There is no reason for a psychopath to do that. Also foul play people would have burned the backpack, or at least buried it. Not even the dumbest killer just lets the backpack flow in the river, waiting to be found by someone - with no pieces missing (ID of both girls were in it, the camera, the phones, money... everything).
I studied tropical vegetation in the last 25 years. Here goes some thinking that can help, I guess... 03:31 I'm pretty sure that some Cecropia trees similar to that ones in the left side of the screen are in the night photos of the ravine. I also see bamboo in the night photos... So. A place with stones, streams, ravines and Cecropia [or even the tree on the left side in 05:30] and bamboo is the night location ... I'm not sure if there is Banana trees in the night photos... Maybe yes [some people pointed a stand person in the ravine night photo - what I guess is a banana tree - or something similar to banana - like in 21:19]... Well that would indicate a place close to a house... Putting all these vegetation info together indicates that the night photos were took at a place with some degree of forest disturbance... Not a pristine location... I guess that a more detailed search with drone can find the night photo location because the girls made sign on a stone to be seen from the sky. So is possible to see the stone from the sky... But now I think that is a more open area than that in this video... 28:46 or an area like this...
The accident theory has 3 main possibilities for me: a) they were misguided to continue on the path beyond the Pianista on the reassurance(by locals or other turists that they met) that it circles around and joins the main path again. b) there is a sight like a waterfall or a pont they wanted to see further down the path that necessitates to walk along the creek they met after the pianista and slipped on wet rocks to a ravine or a fall bellow. c) they got disoriented and started to return back home going the opposite direction that the should have been. Then trying to walk at night, or as darkness was falling, they had an accident. The mystery though remains , why weren't they found? It would have taken a day the most to cover all possible paths and river beds.
PS As everyone can see from this video, the girls could have slipped on any on the rocks from that creek and the fall would have been nasty. A broken ankle or leg doesn't need a greater fall from that.
Yes I agree, Lisanne was found to have suffered a broken metatarsal bone in her recovered foot. It’s the kind of injury you get from landing awkwardly and would have made it impossible go for her to return upstream.
A) The people crossing their path would have come out by now. B) Who told you "they wanted to see a waterfall"? C) You can't go wrong at the Mirador, you go back or you continue in the jungle. You forgot D) They decided to continue a little, since it was only around 1pm... they fell off a the trail a little bit after the first river, or on their way back (between the first river and the Mirador) there's plenty of places where you can fall if you go a little bit off the trail, they were seriously injured by falling on the rocks below, which we see in the night photos... I don't think they moved from there at all, one of the girl most probably had her two legs broken or something like that... the way they acted from the phone datas and the pictures they took is consistent with one or two women being seriously injured. The thing is the search team never went off trail, they only stay on the trail and came back... which is disgusting. That's why they died, the time it took to do a real search and rescue operation was way too long, complete failure.
Bonjour Monsieur Romain Premièrement Bravo à vous c'est un bel hommage que vous rendez à Kris et lisane en cherchant la vérité Je ne sais pas si on a le même ressenti sur le terrain mais à travers cette vidéo je ressens quelque chose de malaisant et une atmosphère pesante sur ce sentier peut-être car les filles sont décédées pas loin mais j'ai toujours un petit frisson en regardant ces vidéos J'ai aussi l'impression qu'il est vraiment impossible de se perdre même après le mirador Dernière question je me demande si vous avez réussi à trouver l'endroit où le rocher des fameuses photos de nuit ?? à mon humble avis la clé de ce mystère se trouve ici Au revoir et encore bravo à vous et votre équipe
Essa inquietação provavelmente é por saber que as garotas morreram por perto, mas o lugar é muito lindo, eu gosto muito de lugares assim na natureza, mas por saber do que aconteceu aí eu não teria coragem de ir apesar do lugar ser muito bonito, acredito que foi criminal as mortes das duas garotas e não acidental ou por se perderem, se for realmente criminal tomara que um dia descubram o ou os responsáveis e que paguem por isso.
A search like this one [until ~16:50] in the Changuinola or even in the Serpent river nearbound can find the place of the night photos, I'm convinced now.
Hi Romain, thanks for the upload and you did a really nice job getting this drone footage of River 1, especially navigating the branches of the trees which looks very challenging. I always wondered how long of a stretch this River was and it seems like it goes on forever. 🙂 I was wondering, what time you took this footage? Also at 10:06 when you show us the ground view or your perspective, I'm assuming you were able to hike down to this spot. How did you manage that? Did you take a separate path to hike to this area or did you hike alongside the River? Did you need to have a machete to cut through some of the dense foliage to get to this spot? Were you able to go any further than this particular spot? If not, why weren't you able to go further? Lastly did you also take drone footage of River 2 and River 3 as well? I'm curious how they look as well if you did. Thanks for all the work you have done Romain. Cheers!
Thank you ! I took that video the 17th of april and the second part with the Mavic Air 2 around the 22nd when I was going for a quick expedition. I sometimes needed to go around in the vegetation to avoid certain places too hard to cross. I was able to get further but not by river 1 because of that waterfall. It's possible threw other routes. "Lastly did you also take drone footage of River 2 and River 3 as well? I'm curious how they look as well if you did." Actually I recorded most of the rivers, and I plan to publish more. However I need to keep some footage for another project, but in the end it will be published soon or later.
@@Romain_C Thank you Romain. That's brilliant. Do you remember what time of day you took the footage? I'm curious if this was in the morning or afternoon? Great work as always and I look forward to seeing your next videos on the Rivers.
@@Romain_CIs very likely a fall either at this waterfall or another one on River 3 (they join a bit further down and become the same river) is where an initial fall happened with one or both girls getting injured. No chance to climb back up, phones and camera waterlogged. Dealing with injuries for a while (until 4:40pm) then emergency calls made but phones are glitching due to moisture. Attempt to dry phones overnight, priority is get to a safe spot out of the water by dark. Phones still glitching and no signal so turned off, concentrate on surviving the first night. Further phone use very minor due to concern about phones shorting out, battery drain. But by third night delirium so Samsung kept on until battery drains. They make some progress down the River a few hundred meters by the 7th and hear searchers in evening. They keep trying camera which finally works by 1am April 8 and they take the night photos. Camera battery drains, one girl still alive and continues downstream, phones wet again. Near death, phones dried again and tried last time on 11th before second girl succumbs.
@tomszabo7350 This is probably the best / most reasonable, of all of the accident theories I've heard. But it requires the girls to make the very bad decision of going off the trail and following the river. I have a hard time believing they would do this dressed as they were, and with so little time left in the day. Seeing the river in this video makes me seriously doubt they would follow the river because it appears immediately dangerous. With bare arms and legs, I can't believe they would go through such rugged terrain getting all scratched up. It just doesn't seem their style. This theory also requires that they double down on the bad decisions by traveling further downstream instead of staying put or attempting to crawl back up to the path. Also, it's unlikely that both girls would get injured to the point of being incapacitated at the same time. I do like how this theory explains the camera and call evidence.
@shannonroberts5080 Yes no matter the theory for their disappearance it seems to require some unlikely things to have happened. Why they went down the river might not simply have been curiosity. Maybe they got scared, maybe they were chased. Not far down, there are a number of drop-offs and waterfalls so if they did go down the river for whatever reason, it is not unreasonable that they would have subsequently fallen. If just one was badly injured enough to be almost immobile, there is a good chance they would have stayed together. Also climbing back up might simply not have been possible -- say one girl really injured (broken pelvis) and the other girl less severely injured (broken foot). In desperation after several days, they might have come to believe that their only chance was to go down the river even of a huge struggle in case maybe it intersected or got close to another trail. Unfortunately as Google Earth makes clear, the river pointed further into the jungle and away from any trails. Also, I believe that the backpack and one of the girl's body was found by somebody or somebodies who for some reason did not want to alert authorities... either because they were the ones who scared/chased the girls, or because they did not want more scrutiny of the area (drug transport route) or at first intended to keep the backpack contents. These people buried the body while the other girl remained exposed to the elements explaining the different decomposition. Then somebody else found out and they decided to plant the backpack and some body parts (which they dug up) downriver from the actual spot the girls had been.
Despite the persistence of foul play theories, it is easy to see how one of the girls might have sustained a serious injury. Then without food and shelter for several days became too weak to return.
@@johndonahue3509Camera and phone likely waterlogged. Needed to he dried out to avoid possible short. They could only risk minimal use turning on in short bursts. Samsung dried out by third day and was left on until battery drained. Camera dried out and became operational few days later and was used to signal until battery died.
Très impressionnant....on y est vraiment !....je ne suis pas certain d’accepter de me risquer à une randonnée sur ce sentier !....franchement, les repères semblent inexistants....une des pire situation pour un randonneur !!.....
@@danielracovitan9779 le problème c’est qu’une fois derrière vous, facile de la perdre comme repère....je ne sais pas ce que donne comme résultat le GPS de randonnée dans ce secteur, mais s’il,est inopérant, ne reste que la boussole pour faire le point....Pas évident dans un contexte de tourisme....
Sorry for the v. long post but the mystery is so perplexing. A scenario that makes most sense to me is that the girls continued on past the Mirador and onto the Serpent Trail at 1pm on April 1st. Soon after the last stream photo of Kris they decided not to return to the Mirador but thought they could reach some other place of interest they’d seen on the tourist map. In my view they didn't get lost on a trail as it seems unlikely, but perhaps they decided to follow a stream bed that crossed the trail that would be much drier at the time than in the drone video. They might think this would be a more direct route, underestimating the difficulty. As they progressed the stream became a rocky gully with steeper sides but they continued on hopefully. The going got harder as they descended and it might have been too hard to turn back. By 4pm they were concerned enough to try to phone for help as is known, but there was no phone signal here. At some point the girls tried to climb out of the gully but Lisanne slipped and fell back, breaking her foot (the broken foot). Perhaps Kris was also injured in another attempt or in the stress now forgot her phone PIN number making the one working phone unusable. With Lisanne or both badly injured the girls were immobilized among boulders with high overhanging trees where the mysterious night photos would be taken. They weren't roaming the jungle for days but were at this single relatively inaccessible rocky stream location, perhaps even by nightfall on the first day. This would explain why they were never seen by locals or search parties and why Kris's hair looks so clean in the night photo. In desperation they set up the ‘SOS’ message on a boulder using things from the backpack (as seen in photo 577). The map they had torn up and white tissues spread around (identifiable in the photo). A Pringles tube torn apart (curly tube pieces and the round 'mirror' base) is also seen in the photo. In the early hours of April 8th as rain now fell (pale spots in the darkness), Lisanne heard something in the blackness that made her think rescuers were near (it's known that search parties operated earlier that very evening). She used the camera flash a kind of distress signal, pointing the camera around and mainly upwards towards the overhead trees. The mysterious dark photos in the camera were an unintended effect of doing this. They weren't deliberate photos to record anything but they accidentally recorded the surroundings including the back of Kris's head. When combined into a panorama the photos show the nearby landscape of the gully walls with boulders and overhanging trees. The strange branch with the two orange plastic bags (photo 550) could have been used to reach out behind the boulders to collect drinking water from the stream in the days they were there. Bright highlights and mossy vegetation in the dark background of this photo indicate wetness of rocks on the far side of the stream behind the boulder. But as more days passed the girls succumbed to the conditions. As the early summer rains came between April and June the stream rose and their remains were gradually carried out into the main river on the northern side of the divide and dispersed. A small few were later found some miles downstream in river shallows where such material tends to be deposited. Phosphate chemicals found on the remains could be traces of absorbed chemical fertilizers washed into the river from local farming. 'Bleaching' of the pelvic bone could be sun-bleaching rather than chemical. Remains would show different levels of decomposition depending on their exact locations and history in the river. It's not known if the 'missing' photo 509 ever existed. It's possible the electronic record of it itself was a camera glitch. But its occurrence between the last of the ordinary photos and the night photos is interestingly coincidental. Is it possible Lisanne's fall that broke her foot could have affected the camera momentarily? This would also have occurred in this period and the camera must have been in her backpack that she was likely carrying at the time. This scenario requires that the backpack containing the phones and camera etc remained afloat and basically dry inside in also being carried downstream over days perhaps before being found. Discovered in the low branches of a tree overhanging the river one local newspaper report stated at the time. This is the hardest aspect to imagine personally, but is it ‘impossible’? I don't know.
@@videosdeecologia7468 Thanks. Could I ask if the phone signal check information you describe a 'known fact'? I haven't come across it myself. Looking at the comprehensive Imperfect Plan website analysis of the phones, I can't see any mention of the phone data showing any changes in location.
@@mutinyonthekitkat I believe that there is no data on the location of the cell phones due to the lack of signal... But from the last daytime photo and the first night photo [and the remains found] it is clear that the Dutch have changed location.
Getting lost on a little mini adventure off trail does make sense. It doesn't make any sense for murderers or kidnappers to place the backpack with a camera and a phone which could possibly contain some kind of evidence where it could be discovered ... when it would be easier to hide it forever in an impenetrable jungle. The rolled up piece of Liseannes skin doesn't make sense. As soon as you reach a logical conclusion, something doesn't make sense. I don't think we will ever understand what happened to these young travelers. RIP.
is it really possible that they continue exploration of river 1 after that waterfall. for me it seems to be a stopping barrier for continue at river 1???. maybe it is possible that one girl slides of the waterfall by accident? Would be nice to know how river 2 evolves. Also at river 2 you might miss the trail, because the trail continuation is a little bit hidden. For me it is a matter of fact, that they died somehow near one of these rivers.
I'm thinking along the same lines. So the last picture is at River 1, and maybe they followed it down and made it to that waterfall, and like you said, maybe one or both fell down. With no way of making it back up, their only option is to move forward and make emergency calls.
1. They never showed any inclination to explore off trail all along the route. Every picture taken is of them squarely on the trail. Never once even a little bit off it. 2. They took pictures of their entire route. If they decided to explore off trail why no pictures of this new exciting venture? 3. If an accident why no blood transfer while rummaging around inside the backpack, and why didn't they use the bras as a bandage, strapping or padding?
@@lyndoncmp5751 if one had to poop i could see them go far off trail fearing people would see or hear. a fall resulting in a broken foot wouldnt produce blood and if you break your foot you dont want to remove socks and shoes, instinctively from pain. and if an injury happened that explains why touristy photographing stopped. possible also the camera fell in water and resulted in the missing picture. they waited for it to dry out before using it on april 8th.
There are a few things I'd like to point out. The water bottle they had (one 100% confirmed) but did they have a second? We don't know. But who cares right? In several photos, 508 and the one where Kris is bent over saluting the camera we can clearly see she has the water bottle wedged into the front right pocket of her jean shorts. So what? This is a terrible place to put your "only" water bottle. It's half way sticking out of her pocket. Theory: While crossing the monkey bridge (1) the water bottle came loose from her pocket. 1. She attempted to grab it before it fell, possibly losing grip on the bridge and fell off. 2. The bottle completely fell down to the water and they went on a mission to retrieve their "only" water bottle. Now problems with this theory? Photographed in the backpack contents is the same water bottle. So if Kris had dropped it, they were successful in retrieving it. However; this does not mean they would have made it safely back to the trail if they had infact successfully retrieved the bottle. Also, these rocks are beyond slippery when covered by water, moss and algae. It's plausible one or both we're injured after successfully retrieving the dropped bottle and that is where they remained or close by that location maybe up to 50 yards off the trail. Two more possible support to this dropped bottle theory. 1. In photo 507 Kris is seen descending down to the stream to cross it. On her left buttocks you can see a dirt stain. This stain is too high on the back hip to of been created by sitting down. It's possible she brushed against the side of the many dirt walls. It's also possible she slipped and fell at some earlier point. Possibly creating a minor irritated hip or back that made further trekking made it worse. 2. In the photo taken of the back of Kris's jean shorts after they were found, a rip and missing material is either exactly or near the same location as the dirt stain captured in photo 507.
To me it shows how difficult it would be to find the girls if they lost their bearings and deviated the wrong way. Looking down at that is like looking at the head of brocoli. Virtually impossible to be seen unless one is where the river flows. I got lost in New Zealand, having gone off of a path; I panicked a bit but fortunately refound the path. Easily done and very confusing once you are in terrain where everything looks the same and sound travels in a vacuum. Must've been awful for them -RIP
Indeed, it's the worst place for someone to become lost. What circumstances or danger pushed the girls to move away from the well-marked trail and further into the dense jungle? It's hard to believe that they simply chose to be adventurous and explore deeper into the ravine, especially considering they were dressed in shorts and sleeveless shirts, had limited supplies of food and water, and had only half of their phone battery remaining. Even if accident or they somehow got injured, they will be slow to manuaver and not continue walking for another 7 days.
I wonder where exactly on the cow path route after the mirador summit is the secret waterfall? No photos of it on their camera ? Was that when they got lost looking for that waterfall? When hiking. They had no real food would be tired and need proper calories if lost. After that , add injury and cold hypothermia , time is ticking in this scenario .
Merci Romain. Etes-vous ce Francais interviewé par le podcast Lost in Panama? Etes-vous le membre du projet qui continue de travailler sur le cas? Ces vidéos sont exceptionellles et nous aident a nous mettre litérallement dans leurs chaussures, et imaginer un peu plus comment les filles ont pu penser en ce 1 avril 2014.
Je suis en train de travailler sur une vidéo d’1h15-30, je pourrais vraiment m’exprimer après la publication mais n’hésitez pas à poser une question. Je pourrais peut-être y répondre.
@@Romain_C I meant steep river banks without vegetation like we can see in the photo #542. To me banks of the first river seem pretty low with vegetation near water level...
In fact, the tragedy began when they decided to go past the top of the Mirador. It is very likely that they strayed from the path and great evil began in the lives of those young women.
🤩 Wonderful work Romain! There seems to be a wide path on the left, visible between 33:40 and 34:11. Is that correct? Left -> I presume that that's along the Southern river bank
I guess the only way to find the place of the night pictures is walking down those rivers with night pictures in hand and try to fit the picture upon a "in loco" place. Otherwise is very difficult to be certain of that...
On April 2nd of the night there was a storm this is supported by the phone logs of lisanne where she looked up weather and left her phone on. So by the third monkey bridge is where they slipped into the river any Idea how big the rivers get during a storm?
@@gtr5860 the night photos shows droplets of water in the air suggesting that it had rained that night the reason why the camera had a unusual date is because it's battery died while taking 509 lisanne probably left her phone on the to recharge the camera. Maybe her flashlight on her phone wasn't working or that her phone camera flash wasn't bright enough.
I live in costa rica on a farm of 120 acres with similar canyons on both north and south boundaries. When it rains the streams in the canyon swell in no time and transform from a gentle flow to a torrent within 5 to 10 minutes. The currents are phenominally strong and can take a person off their feet and downstream in seconds. Excellent footage.
The weather app usage was explained by a contributor on the Imperfect Plant website. Here it is: "" Hi Matt, Chris and Romain, regarding the weather app that is assumed to have been purposely opened and consulted by Lisanne, I believe that something else completely might have been going on. The Galaxy phone has 3 opening pages that can be reached by swiping left and right, prior to logging in. One of those 3 pages is the accu weather app/page. Who ever turns on the phone and does not know the log in pin code, can only swipe left or right and toggle between those 3 pages. The person who switched on Lisanne’s phone, did not log in / insert the pin code and swiped to the left instead thus opened the Accu weather page. It is my understanding that that person did not know how to log into the phone and the only thing that person could do, is swipe. Small chance that that person would have been the owner of the phone, i.e. Lisanne. Not only, the Accu weather app does not update offline. Lisanne knew that. There’s no point of consulting the app offline after x days. Whether rain was on its way or not at the time the app was opened, the app would not have been of any help at all. If it rains, it rains. If it doesn’t, then it simply doesn’t. No need for an app that doesn’t even function. The fact that the phone was not logged in to, and that the weather app page was swiped open instead, tells me that someone unfamiliar with the phone, had been handling it. Why do I say this? Because the exact same happened to me. I have had to learn how the Galaxy works.""
Thanks for the effort of going out there and make this footage. I will have to look in seperated pieces though. I was getting a bit of rollercoaster dizzyness after a while. I do hope that you made footage on the spot of the night-pictures. And we get to see that later. As far as I looked, I could not find pictures or video taken from the spot with the red plastic on the twigs. That would be very interesting. To see that spot in daylight. I only found a picture that has an arrow pointing at that location. But I would like to see that spot. Obvious they were under some overhang. It was raining during the photos. Yet water did not get on the lens in any of them. Did I miss that spot in previous footage you made? Or is that spot on a location you don't know where it might be?
I think that maybe Lisanne broke her foot it was found broken. Pretty easy to do in those rough places. I really hope they didn’t meet up with foul play. Whatever happened to them in either way is horrific.
If there was a serious accident why did they not use the bras as padding, strapping or bandage? That's the first thing they'd think to utilise. They had nothing else. They were smart young women. Yet the bras were not use to aid any injuries.
Who took the photos, a number of days later, of the back of Kris' head, one has to wonder. If Lisanne were okay enough to take the photos and then thoughtfully put the camera back into the backpack, she would certainly have taken photos to "explain" things more. Those who found the backpack might have more of a story to tell!
@@macclift9956 Also how come the hair of Kris still looks clean and fresh after a week of being out in the woods? It doesn't add up. Nobody would have hair like that after sleeping rough and getting filthy each night for a week.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Exactly, her hair was too clean. I feel they went through hell at the hands of human predators. As far as I could see, it was impossible to tell whether the hair was still on Kris' head or (alarmingly) had been removed and washed like a wig for future use; she had very striking hair. No matter how awful, I have a feeling those girls would want their loved ones to know *exactly* what they went through; there has been no closure!
A big reason ,why the girls went on that hike all alone, because until 2014 the hike to El Mirador was considered as easy 2 hour hike , that even beginners could manage. Lisanne read that on the web, and therefore she was encouraged, she could manage it easily. Because it was planned as 4 hour hike (2 hours to El Mirador, and 2 hours back) , both girls had only minimal food and water with them (only one pringles crackers, and chewing gum, and two small water bottles). And indeed, they managed to get to El Mirador in record time (below 2 hours, which is even for good hikers rare). A big reason for that record time was: that the weather was very good ... dry, but not hot... and sunny so that they could see easily the path. And the soil wasnt muddy at all. So they had a good grip on the soil. Because it seemed so easy, Lisanne became overconfident (i am sure about that), because she looked into google maps at El Mirador (we know that from her cellphone-data). Meaning: she very likely wanted to go further, and spot another location..because the day was still young (it was around 1pm only). And thats where danger set in. Because after El Mirador, a lot of paths are like a labyrinth, and its not as easy anymore, to find the way back. Because of that there is a sign at El Mirador - placed after 2014 (after Kris and Lisanne got lost) , saying: that no tourist should go further than El Mirador, because its so easy to get lost. Lisanne was to overconfidend. She had zero experience with hiking (and also Kris had zero experience, although she once was hiking in Peru for a small trail, when she was a child - with her parents and a guide- thats it) . Both didnt knew how to use a compass (although at least Kris had a compass-app on her Iphone 4)...And even without a compass: its possible to determine where north, south, east , west is : from the sun alone (but they didnt know how (for instance: at 12 o'clock the sun is always exactly at south... the opposite of south is north... right from north is always: east... opposite of east: is west ). From that alone they could have been navigating. But they were women. And had zero interest in science, and physics. Kris had a degree in art. And Lisanne had a degree in psychology. None of those have anything to do with science. Therefore their knowledge about nature , sky, astrophysics , geometry, math, was literally zero. And so was their knowledge about survival. And they were total unprepared. They literally went for a hike, with supplies, like they would go to a shopping mall. In my youth i was hiking with my uncle for many years. My uncle was a mountain-rescuer. He told me quiet a lot about survival in nature.. one golden rule is: "if you think you are going for a 5 hour hike, always pack your backpack as if you were going for 3 times of that... meaning: like its a 15 hours hike" ... that amount of food, water etc.. Besides that: always have in your backpack a 3 ounzes (100 gramm) chocolate (which you never touch... even when you get lost... only after days, when you begin to feel dizzy (due to low sugar levels) you can eat a bit of that chocolate , just to increase your sugar levels a bit. Save that chocolate as long as you can (its not to use like food... but for the blood sugar levels)... Because after few days without food, sugar levels can drop very badly.. as long your body didnt turned into ketosis (meaning: bodyfat turning into sugar), you are in danger to starve from low sugar levels. After the body got used to ketosis (that can be 10-14 days) the chocolate isnt to important anymore to maintain sugar levels. Also, whenever you go for a hike: always carry a good knife with you. Besides water the knife is the most important thing you need. Those are small pieces of survival knowledge.. there is so much more, but from that alone what i said: you are increasing your chances to survive by a lot! None of these things Kris and Lisanne did. And still many people want to believe, they got killed.... people just cant imagine, how dangerous nature is. First world people take it for granted: that they are never thirst or hungry. Food and water is absolutely not a 'granted" thing in nature. Thats why animals literally need to fight eachother to death, to survive.
@@PygmalionFaciebat I agree with you! You seem to know so much about hiking !but why they didn't send a message ,besides the phone calls to 112 ?this is a mystery
@@sunsunny2929 Actually you would be surprised what a small fraction of people in emergency-situations send messages to their loved ones. Lets take the 9/11-incident from 2001, where literally more than 10 000 people were in lifethreatening situation (and around 3000 people died, as we know). Only a fraction of those 10 000 people sent messages to their loved ones - maybe 100 ? 200 ? That scale... Even on the airplanes, only a fraction of people sent messages to their loved ones. Sure, not everyone had a cellphone back then, but few borrowed it from their seat-neighbor. Overall still: almost no one leave a message to their loved ones. That has different reasons. First reason is: the priority always stays: to solve the problem, trying to survive. Thats always first priority - and the whole mind is captured by that thought "what could i make.. what should i make.. how could i survive ?" ... In a lifethreatening situation, thats always the thing in the head. Its not easy to get away from those thoughts... but occassionaly it happens... Second: unlike in hollywood movies where the actor knows "the movie goes only for another 20 minutes, .. i should leave a message for my loved ones, before i die" , in real life its very hard to estimate "what will be my last day" ... Actually 7 days without eating (the day of the night shots) already felt like "near to death" , i am sure .. low sugar levels in the blood made their hearts pounding like hell (heartrate increases, to try to supply the organs with energy, even when there is no energy in the body left). The body eats itself to gain energy from it , and thats quiet a horrible feeling. Electrolytes like potassium and sodium, which are crucial for nerves (even for the nerves in the heart) are barely there anymore , which leads to sweating, shivering, low blood pressure (while high heartrate), and frightening heartrhythm-disorders. But still: its not easy to estimate "thats my last day" ... because even in this state Lisanne lived at least another 3 days, and was even able to pack her backpack. You just dont give up, regardless how bad your situation is. To write a message for the loved ones is an aknowlegdement of dying .. and i am sure, young 21-22 year old girls, with a life ahead (Lisanne had just finished her psychology degree, and Kris her art-degree) ... both just weren't ready to aknowledge "these are our last hours, we should leave a mesage before we die" ... Thats a hard task. Another thing is: even when they aknowledged it... after 8 days, your hands are shaking so much, and your mental situation is so bad (halluzinating inclusive) that you are barely able to write a message on the phone, which needs quiet precise fingertips... And sure, someone could say "but to record a video, doesnt need fingertips" ... yes - it doesnt.. but Lisannes phone died in the first 2-3 days. And Kris - maybe even because of her shaking hands and condition, wasnt able to enter the pin correct. After giving three times the wrong pin, the phone usually locks, and asks for the puk-code (which is around 10-12 digits as far i know). Most people dont know their puk-code. I assume also Kris didnt knew it. Therefore, after 5th april, it wasnt possible to use Kris phone for video recordings. Some people will say here "ok, but how about the camera ? The camera was able to record videos... and if Lisanne was able to push the button on it for the flash, she also would have been able to record a video" ... Yes she would... But in this case Lisanne decided to use the whole battery of the camera to make flash signals, to get a rescue (remember, thats first priority). After her 4 hour long flash signals, the camera also died (i calculated from information in the internet, how much battery she had in the camera, on 1st april ... it was around 80% .. (the phones only had around 50% before the hike !). Around 30 % of battery the camera lost on the first day, with the daytime-pictures. The rest of the battery the camera literally lost on that night on 8th april, when she took more than hundred photos in 4 hours (the camera is designed to take around 250 photos with full battery, as i researched). So its safe to say: 6 days before they died they didnt prioritized to make "last messages to loved ones" , because they didnt felt that bad, and prioritized survival-thoughts (that was on 5th april). Later on, Kris wasnt able to unlock her phone anymore (probably because of her condition), to record a video on her phone. And the camera was used on the 8th april, to give signals to rescuers (who obviously didnt saw the girls). The camera got empty that night very likely .. so that it was impossible to leave any last message. They also had nothing to write as far as we know. They only had a map from boquete - that was one paper. They teard it apart, to make a SOS-sign with the small paper-pieces. They laid it on the stone, which is visible in one of the nightshots. Now all what i wrote is about probability. There is a small chance they even left a message. There are two possibilities for that: Lisanne and/or Kris found a sharp stone, and carved something into a tree, which at least marks were they died (very likely the location of the nightshots). They maybe carved something like "love you mom, dad ..Lisanne& Kris" ... Thats a possibility both had, even with empty batteries, and locked phones. But to find that tree is obviously hard. Not even the spot of the nightshots is found to this day. Another possibility is: that Lisanne and Kris indeed wrote messages in their phones, days before the phones died/locked. The fact, that for the investigators that information was not important to solve the case, and therefore they didnt published it, doesnt mean, those messages didnt exist. The parents of Lisanne and Kris got the phones.. .and very likely the parents had no interest to feed the internet with the last private messages from Kris and Lisanne, which were dedicated only for the eyes of the parents. If my father, daughter, etc would leave me a last message, regardless how much media-publicity his/her case had made.. i very likely also wouldnt publish his last message (i dont see any reasons why strangers in the internet should know about the last words of my father towards me). In my opinion, all of those explainations of "no last message" are quiet strong, i would say. Whats your opinion about my thoughts ?
@@PygmalionFaciebat when they attempted calls on 112 without success, wouldn't they send messages and write we are lost help us ?to inform their parents or anybody for help
@@sunsunny2929 Maybe. But their phones never got enough signal that their messages got through. Even worse: Lisanne had her phone the whole night from the 2nd April to the 3rd april on - which drained the battery to zero % ... The only phone left was Kris phone after 3rd april. And she also only unlocked it for another 2 days. After 5th April she was not able, or didnt want to unlock her phone (because emergency calls can be also made from locked phones, and she saved a lot of battery with that because the phone didnt needed to boot). To compare it: between 1st april and 5th april her phone lost 20 % of battery. But between 5th april and 11th april her phone only lost 10% of battery. So for battery-saving her new method was twice effective, than her old method with "powering on her phone every time" ... Even on the last day (11th April) her phone still had around 20% of battery. I am quiet sure Lisanne was the last survivor, because the battery was drained to zero in one hour (that behavior fits perfect to Lisanne, because she treated her own phone, and the camera the same way: draining the battery in one session). But back to your question: if Kris and Lisanne wrote their messages on the 1st April... it would have needed a signal to get trough. As i mentioned: the whole next 10 days both phones didnt get signal. The first possible date to transmit the messages was when the phones went to the forensics many month later. Usually the forensics doesnt turn on the phone in a classical way (meaning they dont turn on the phones - also because they cant know the pin), but instead they connect it with their hardware, to get to the phonedata itself on the sd-cards and internal storage - i assume (i am not a expert on that field... i am interested in computer stuff, and i am even programming since 25 years, but still - i am not an expert on forensics - so i only guess how they saved the data from the phones). If there are messages on the phone, the parents maybe didnt told the public , because there was no reason for that. Its quiet a private thing. This means we maybe will never know wether they left a message on the phone or not. I think the parents could answer this question. Its really hard to tell. But to go back to your very first posting: the girls really never should go past El Mirador... and even the "easy El Mirador hike" was not a good idea for two unexperienced girls, without any preperation, gear, etc .. Its half of an miracle that they even got to El Mirador - in a jungle they never was before. They literally had no idea of the trail, and even their map was not about the trail but about Boquete itself. Like i said: its even a miracle they made it to El Mirador. Sure its only one "trail" - but as far i researched and saw videos about the trail : partielly the trail isnt easy to spot. And its absolutely not like a forest trail in europe.. El Pianista is far more dangerous, and would have needed far better equipment. And everyone i see who takes the hike is far better equipped than those girls, with better shoes, raincoat in the backpack, compass, gps, first aid pack, etc ... Even i with my uncle back then, always had a first aid pack, even in forest we know for 10 years. Even for far smaller hikes than the girls did. The girls were super careless.. not even after El Mirador, but also before. But the decision to go beyond El Mirador was the most bad idea ever (even if they would made it back healthy).
Great footage! The terrain and forest along the river was exactly what I was interested about. In my opinion the night pictures were taken at this river anywhere between the trail and the monkey bridge. Maybe it was at the time the phones were used less when they found this place where they stayed several days. I don't know the reason and how they got there, but after they got lost I think nobody was involved anymore. They built the SOS and red-bag sign and hoped to be seen. In the night where the pictures where taken they hoped with light signs to be seen. Any theory of a gang or the tour guide and all was planed is absolutly irrational agains the facts that we have. Maybe there was somebody because of whom they where scared and all resulted from, but not after that.
Esta corriente de agua no es un rio, su nombre más exacto es quebrada o riachuelo y conducen el agua de lluvias desde lo alto de las montañas hacia un rio, en este caso el rio culebra. Aca lo vemos desde arriba por un dron, pero es bastante improbable que alguien recorra una larga distancia a través de una quebrada sin un buen motivo pues es incomodo y hay ramas de arboles alredor. Especificamente en el caso de las chicas la foto 508 es tomada aca a las 1:56 pm, no hay más fotos del sendero, hay un archivo 509 desaparecido y la 1era llamada de emergencia es a las 4:39 pm. Esa brecha de 2:43 horas sin actividad en telefonos y camara fotografica es intrigante.
@@lyndoncmp5751 (irony on) somebody spendet hours in Photoshop to fake pictures, all have been planned days before, somebody pretend phone activity over days, stood in the night over 3 hours to take pictures, manupulated the camera storage, killed them, used chemicals to bleach bones, took bones and the backpack over a 14 hours hike back to the river. Yes, that sounds absolutly realistic (irony off)
@@zwanzischmark The pictures weren't photoshopped. They were real. They suddenly stop after 508 (except the deleted on a computer 509). The night pictures are cryptic nonsense. Anyone could have taken them. You really think Kris had such perfect hair after being in the forest for a week? When the coroner says it was foul play and also all the locals including a policeman, say the same, you have to listen. People were murdered for knowing too much others have been threatened. Its easy to to fake emergency calls. Takes seconds. Not a jot of evidence for lost/accident. Miraculously, the bones only appeared after the reward increase and only small parts easily transported in a backpack and planted. No intact femurs, no spinal columns, no rib cages etc were ever found. No skulls either. Skulls would give the game away if they were shot or beaten. Not a single pending SMS or WhatsApp message to their loved ones, not a single picture or video showing what happened, no goodbye messages etc. Considering they were in constant contact with their loved ones and all of a sudden they don't bother to leave any messages? The backpack didn't show signs of being out there all that time. Nor were their bras used to aid any injuries and used as bandage, strapping or padding etc. No blood transference while rummaging around in the backpack for phones, water bottle etc. Nothing. The accident/lost theory is naive and ignorant nonsense. Use your brain.
@@zwanzischmark "stood in the night over 3 hours to take pictures" People camp out all the time. No big deal to sit up in the woods at night drinking beers and messing around taking random pictures. Its easy. Far more difficult to explain no pictures taken for a whole week then all those ridiculous night pictures. None of which are either selfies or show either of the women alive. Would have been much easier to just turn the damn video function on and record a video instead of all those purposely misleading nonsense pictures. Somebody clearly did that for "shits and giggles" as the saying goes.
I did not see much evidence for foul play. How to hijack two persons, and keep them captive over that time of period? Also the phone activity (not calling Panama emergency), night fotos does not indicate any foul play.
The locals know it was foul play including the coroner and policeman. Not a single picture that day after 508, when they had been taking pictures all along their hike. Not a single attempt to call home, no pending SMS or WhatsApp messages, not a single picture of what happened to them, not a single video message explaining what happened. Etc etc. The night photos are total cryptic nonsense.
Foul play does not require them to be hijacked. It could be foul play by the men they befriended in Boquete, so they went without force. And the phones DID call Panama emergency after initially calling EU emergency.
Yo I'm very certain that their remains are further north up the river perhaps the the entire river from the first piece of evidence to La Mina lake is a crime scene.
@@kennethmacalpin7655😅😅😅I saw them on girls pictures I examined very carefully it. They r existing Little black African people with white strikes on chest
Well what can I say. I've been working in forests like this for about 25 years. These valleys are deep and the large leaves of the plants are due to lack of light. Plants need to have larger leaves to capture the little light that reaches these valleys. It looks like a bare forest, damp and dark. A very difficult place to walk during the day. Imagine walking in this forest at night.
Or is lisana froon stil alive or stuck somewhere
@@kristienderyckere7850 Bones from Lisanne were found few months after she got lost. Its safe to say, that she isnt alive anymore - unfortunately.
@videodeecologia7468 Wow i didnt knew that you have 25 years of experience with these forests. I found this comment of you by coincidence. It deepens my estimation about your expertise (maybe you remember me - we talked not long ago about this topic - and we had quiet the same view on this case, as far i remember).
@@PygmalionFaciebat Yes, I remember. Thanks!
@@videosdeecologia7468 What if they gave in and drank the stream water too?
We need to focus on the river with all the
physical evidence.
Really great work! Besides that this is really interesting and unique info, these videos show how extremely beautiful the landscape and the plants there are. Thank you for sharing.
At 5:22 we can see very similar Stone as in the night photos.
@Romain C, in your experience, is it possible to hike down the river (for whatever reason) and get stuck in a ravine or behind a waterfall with no way to return to the starting point? Thank you for the video and hopefully for your answer in advance.
Magnífico. Siempre he querido ver esa parte.
Wow Romain thanks for sharing this awesome content with us. Now i have a better overview of the situation. If they went a long the river their are indeed a lot of dangerous spots which could bring the girls in serious accidents. Also if you get apart from the trail its really horrible to find back in the middle of this thick woods its even more worst than a labyrinth to me. Hence on this facts I do pretty think that the girls could lost and succumbed to the elements. Looking forward to see more exciting content. Thank you!
Except in all of the pictures they took that day they are squarely on the trail in each and every one of them and none show any inclination to explore even just a little bit off trail. Also, surely if they'd gone off the trail into a new type of area they would have taken some pictures of this totally different scenery? They took pictures of their entire route.
@@lyndoncmp5751 this is fact. Another lead for a foulplay.
@@mr.b.3633 Absolutely. No doubt in my mind.
@@lyndoncmp5751 the photos after Mirador are off the trail. They got lost.
@@lyndoncmp5751If they got scared or were chased off the trail they would use a river to go into the jungle. Camera may have been dropped and became waterlogged early on. Phones may have become wet at some point as well.
I think the yellow flowers are Neurolaena lobata and also captured in the last day time photos of Kris at the stream.
Thank you for the video!
Awesome footage. I’m intrigued by the hidden waterfall and have thought it a possibility that the girls continued off the trail in search of something specific like that.
the hidden waterfalls is far from that zone, on the other side of the mountain ; there was no point in liooking for them in that area
Makes sense. The last picture we have of them is at the stream that leads to the waterfall. I read on scarletts blog that one of myriams kids said they were going to a waterfall if I'm not mistaken. I know the eyewitnesses were all over the place though. From the looks of it this appears to be a place you could follow and then not be able to turn back.
I would like to know if they discussed the waterfall with the Dutch lads they met earlier in the week. Let’s be honest a lot of the main trail was less than spectacular and I have a sense that they were looking for a brilliant picture to upload and show their fb friends.
The problem with that is in all of the pictures they took that day they are squarely on the trail in each and every one of them and none show any inclination to explore even just a little bit off trail. Also, surely if they'd gone off the trail into a new type of area they would have taken some pictures of this totally different scenery, away from the trail? They took pictures of their entire route. Yet none after 508. If they were exploring they would have. We know this from what they did up to that point. They wouldn't have suddenly stopped taking photographs for nearly 3 whole hours before the first emergency call. I don't buy that.
@@lyndoncmp5751 There's actually at least three photos after the Pianista trail and after the Continential divide.
Amazing footage. New subscriber. Thanks.
And I too😊
Eu, nessa trilha, teria me perdido seriamente assim que adentrasse a selva. Além disso, ao me desesperar por estar perdida, caminharia mais e mais, me perdendo mais ainda.
Feliciano has a house in the forest, and his son was seen laughing at the girls death...both psycopaths...
Feliziano helped a lot in the search for months! There is no reason for a psychopath to do that. Also foul play people would have burned the backpack, or at least buried it. Not even the dumbest killer just lets the backpack flow in the river, waiting to be found by someone - with no pieces missing (ID of both girls were in it, the camera, the phones, money... everything).
Los psicópatas les gusta involucrarse en las búsquedas de sus victimas
Я бы прогулялась по этой живописной речке. Красотень то какая 😍
бери с собой рюкзак, бутылку воды, банку Принглс и фотоаппарат. Не забудь в конце прогулки телефон, фотоаппарат и лифчик положить в рюкзак.
@@Ravenarh Ок. Только не одна, а с подругой))
I studied tropical vegetation in the last 25 years. Here goes some thinking that can help, I guess... 03:31 I'm pretty sure that some Cecropia trees similar to that ones in the left side of the screen are in the night photos of the ravine. I also see bamboo in the night photos... So. A place with stones, streams, ravines and Cecropia [or even the tree on the left side in 05:30] and bamboo is the night location ... I'm not sure if there is Banana trees in the night photos... Maybe yes [some people pointed a stand person in the ravine night photo - what I guess is a banana tree - or something similar to banana - like in 21:19]... Well that would indicate a place close to a house... Putting all these vegetation info together indicates that the night photos were took at a place with some degree of forest disturbance... Not a pristine location... I guess that a more detailed search with drone can find the night photo location because the girls made sign on a stone to be seen from the sky. So is possible to see the stone from the sky... But now I think that is a more open area than that in this video... 28:46 or an area like this...
LMAO...they made a sign but took no pix of their injuries or of themselves and what was happening..or leave notes on the phone... Jesus Christ
@@johndonahue3509 What's wrong with you?
@@RideAcrossTheRiver lmao..DEMOCRATS SAY MEN GET PREGNANT..YOURE A FKN IDIOT
@@RideAcrossTheRiver fkn moron..LEARN ABOUT FORENSICS RETARD..THATS WHY IT WAS MURDER..BASED ON FORESNICS...BRAIN DEAD ILLITERATE.
The accident theory has 3 main possibilities for me:
a) they were misguided to continue on the path beyond the Pianista on the reassurance(by locals or other turists that they met) that it circles around and joins the main path again.
b) there is a sight like a waterfall or a pont they wanted to see further down the path that necessitates to walk along the creek they met after the pianista and slipped on wet rocks to a ravine or a fall bellow.
c) they got disoriented and started to return back home going the opposite direction that the should have been. Then trying to walk at night, or as darkness was falling, they had an accident.
The mystery though remains , why weren't they found? It would have taken a day the most to cover all possible paths and river beds.
PS As everyone can see from this video, the girls could have slipped on any on the rocks from that creek and the fall would have been nasty. A broken ankle or leg doesn't need a greater fall from that.
Yes I agree, Lisanne was found to have suffered a broken metatarsal bone in her recovered foot. It’s the kind of injury you get from landing awkwardly and would have made it impossible go for her to return upstream.
A) The people crossing their path would have come out by now. B) Who told you "they wanted to see a waterfall"? C) You can't go wrong at the Mirador, you go back or you continue in the jungle. You forgot D) They decided to continue a little, since it was only around 1pm... they fell off a the trail a little bit after the first river, or on their way back (between the first river and the Mirador) there's plenty of places where you can fall if you go a little bit off the trail, they were seriously injured by falling on the rocks below, which we see in the night photos... I don't think they moved from there at all, one of the girl most probably had her two legs broken or something like that... the way they acted from the phone datas and the pictures they took is consistent with one or two women being seriously injured. The thing is the search team never went off trail, they only stay on the trail and came back... which is disgusting. That's why they died, the time it took to do a real search and rescue operation was way too long, complete failure.
@@EazyKamikaze they wrote in the diary that they wanted to see the waterfall.
@@EazyKamikaze May be 🕵♀
Bonjour Monsieur Romain
Premièrement Bravo à vous c'est un bel hommage que vous rendez à Kris et lisane en cherchant la vérité
Je ne sais pas si on a le même ressenti sur le terrain mais à travers cette vidéo je ressens quelque chose de malaisant et une atmosphère pesante sur ce sentier peut-être car les filles sont décédées pas loin mais j'ai toujours un petit frisson en regardant ces vidéos
J'ai aussi l'impression qu'il est vraiment impossible de se perdre même après le mirador
Dernière question je me demande si vous avez réussi à trouver l'endroit où le rocher des fameuses photos de nuit ?? à mon humble avis la clé de ce mystère se trouve ici
Au revoir et encore bravo à vous et votre équipe
Essa inquietação provavelmente é por saber que as garotas morreram por perto, mas o lugar é muito lindo, eu gosto muito de lugares assim na natureza, mas por saber do que aconteceu aí eu não teria coragem de ir apesar do lugar ser muito bonito, acredito que foi criminal as mortes das duas garotas e não acidental ou por se perderem, se for realmente criminal tomara que um dia descubram o ou os responsáveis e que paguem por isso.
Great work thank you
I was convinced they'd been murdered. But after seeing a live tour of the area, it's easy to see how a person could get lost or stranded here.
A search like this one [until ~16:50] in the Changuinola or even in the Serpent river nearbound can find the place of the night photos, I'm convinced now.
Hi Romain, thanks for the upload and you did a really nice job getting this drone footage of River 1, especially navigating the branches of the trees which looks very challenging. I always wondered how long of a stretch this River was and it seems like it goes on forever. 🙂
I was wondering, what time you took this footage?
Also at 10:06 when you show us the ground view or your perspective, I'm assuming you were able to hike down to this spot. How did you manage that? Did you take a separate path to hike to this area or did you hike alongside the River?
Did you need to have a machete to cut through some of the dense foliage to get to this spot?
Were you able to go any further than this particular spot? If not, why weren't you able to go further?
Lastly did you also take drone footage of River 2 and River 3 as well? I'm curious how they look as well if you did.
Thanks for all the work you have done Romain.
Cheers!
Thank you !
I took that video the 17th of april and the second part with the Mavic Air 2 around the 22nd when I was going for a quick expedition.
I sometimes needed to go around in the vegetation to avoid certain places too hard to cross.
I was able to get further but not by river 1 because of that waterfall. It's possible threw other routes.
"Lastly did you also take drone footage of River 2 and River 3 as well? I'm curious how they look as well if you did."
Actually I recorded most of the rivers, and I plan to publish more. However I need to keep some footage for another project, but in the end it will be published soon or later.
@@Romain_C Thank you Romain. That's brilliant. Do you remember what time of day you took the footage? I'm curious if this was in the morning or afternoon? Great work as always and I look forward to seeing your next videos on the Rivers.
@@Romain_CIs very likely a fall either at this waterfall or another one on River 3 (they join a bit further down and become the same river) is where an initial fall happened with one or both girls getting injured. No chance to climb back up, phones and camera waterlogged. Dealing with injuries for a while (until 4:40pm) then emergency calls made but phones are glitching due to moisture. Attempt to dry phones overnight, priority is get to a safe spot out of the water by dark. Phones still glitching and no signal so turned off, concentrate on surviving the first night. Further phone use very minor due to concern about phones shorting out, battery drain. But by third night delirium so Samsung kept on until battery drains. They make some progress down the River a few hundred meters by the 7th and hear searchers in evening. They keep trying camera which finally works by 1am April 8 and they take the night photos. Camera battery drains, one girl still alive and continues downstream, phones wet again. Near death, phones dried again and tried last time on 11th before second girl succumbs.
@tomszabo7350 This is probably the best / most reasonable, of all of the accident theories I've heard. But it requires the girls to make the very bad decision of going off the trail and following the river. I have a hard time believing they would do this dressed as they were, and with so little time left in the day. Seeing the river in this video makes me seriously doubt they would follow the river because it appears immediately dangerous. With bare arms and legs, I can't believe they would go through such rugged terrain getting all scratched up. It just doesn't seem their style. This theory also requires that they double down on the bad decisions by traveling further downstream instead of staying put or attempting to crawl back up to the path. Also, it's unlikely that both girls would get injured to the point of being incapacitated at the same time. I do like how this theory explains the camera and call evidence.
@shannonroberts5080 Yes no matter the theory for their disappearance it seems to require some unlikely things to have happened. Why they went down the river might not simply have been curiosity. Maybe they got scared, maybe they were chased. Not far down, there are a number of drop-offs and waterfalls so if they did go down the river for whatever reason, it is not unreasonable that they would have subsequently fallen.
If just one was badly injured enough to be almost immobile, there is a good chance they would have stayed together. Also climbing back up might simply not have been possible -- say one girl really injured (broken pelvis) and the other girl less severely injured (broken foot). In desperation after several days, they might have come to believe that their only chance was to go down the river even of a huge struggle in case maybe it intersected or got close to another trail. Unfortunately as Google Earth makes clear, the river pointed further into the jungle and away from any trails.
Also, I believe that the backpack and one of the girl's body was found by somebody or somebodies who for some reason did not want to alert authorities... either because they were the ones who scared/chased the girls, or because they did not want more scrutiny of the area (drug transport route) or at first intended to keep the backpack contents. These people buried the body while the other girl remained exposed to the elements explaining the different decomposition. Then somebody else found out and they decided to plant the backpack and some body parts (which they dug up) downriver from the actual spot the girls had been.
Merci
01:40 Four or five huge leafs [top - right] like this could do a good roof in a shelter L o L
Despite the persistence of foul play theories, it is easy to see how one of the girls might have sustained a serious injury. Then without food and shelter for several days became too weak to return.
Ain injury would not explain the photoshopped photos, the recovered backpack, the shorts, the bleached bones.
Why did they never use the bras as strapping, bandage or padding? That would be the first thing they'd use to aid an injury. They had nothing else.
If they were injured on the trail they would have been found.
And too dumb not to take pics or leave notes on phone..ok GENIUS
@@johndonahue3509Camera and phone likely waterlogged. Needed to he dried out to avoid possible short. They could only risk minimal use turning on in short bursts. Samsung dried out by third day and was left on until battery drained. Camera dried out and became operational few days later and was used to signal until battery died.
Très impressionnant....on y est vraiment !....je ne suis pas certain d’accepter de me risquer à une randonnée sur ce sentier !....franchement, les repères semblent inexistants....une des pire situation pour un randonneur !!.....
si, j'irais sans hésitation ; repères inexistants ? la riviere est là pour repère
@@danielracovitan9779 le problème c’est qu’une fois derrière vous, facile de la perdre comme repère....je ne sais pas ce que donne comme résultat le GPS de randonnée dans ce secteur, mais s’il,est inopérant, ne reste que la boussole pour faire le point....Pas évident dans un contexte de tourisme....
Sorry for the v. long post but the mystery is so perplexing. A scenario that makes most sense to me is that the girls continued on past the Mirador and onto the Serpent Trail at 1pm on April 1st. Soon after the last stream photo of Kris they decided not to return to the Mirador but thought they could reach some other place of interest they’d seen on the tourist map.
In my view they didn't get lost on a trail as it seems unlikely, but perhaps they decided to follow a stream bed that crossed the trail that would be much drier at the time than in the drone video. They might think this would be a more direct route, underestimating the difficulty. As they progressed the stream became a rocky gully with steeper sides but they continued on hopefully. The going got harder as they descended and it might have been too hard to turn back. By 4pm they were concerned enough to try to phone for help as is known, but there was no phone signal here.
At some point the girls tried to climb out of the gully but Lisanne slipped and fell back, breaking her foot (the broken foot). Perhaps Kris was also injured in another attempt or in the stress now forgot her phone PIN number making the one working phone unusable. With Lisanne or both badly injured the girls were immobilized among boulders with high overhanging trees where the mysterious night photos would be taken. They weren't roaming the jungle for days but were at this single relatively inaccessible rocky stream location, perhaps even by nightfall on the first day. This would explain why they were never seen by locals or search parties and why Kris's hair looks so clean in the night photo. In desperation they set up the ‘SOS’ message on a boulder using things from the backpack (as seen in photo 577). The map they had torn up and white tissues spread around (identifiable in the photo). A Pringles tube torn apart (curly tube pieces and the round 'mirror' base) is also seen in the photo.
In the early hours of April 8th as rain now fell (pale spots in the darkness), Lisanne heard something in the blackness that made her think rescuers were near (it's known that search parties operated earlier that very evening). She used the camera flash a kind of distress signal, pointing the camera around and mainly upwards towards the overhead trees. The mysterious dark photos in the camera were an unintended effect of doing this. They weren't deliberate photos to record anything but they accidentally recorded the surroundings including the back of Kris's head. When combined into a panorama the photos show the nearby landscape of the gully walls with boulders and overhanging trees.
The strange branch with the two orange plastic bags (photo 550) could have been used to reach out behind the boulders to collect drinking water from the stream in the days they were there. Bright highlights and mossy vegetation in the dark background of this photo indicate wetness of rocks on the far side of the stream behind the boulder.
But as more days passed the girls succumbed to the conditions. As the early summer rains came between April and June the stream rose and their remains were gradually carried out into the main river on the northern side of the divide and dispersed. A small few were later found some miles downstream in river shallows where such material tends to be deposited. Phosphate chemicals found on the remains could be traces of absorbed chemical fertilizers washed into the river from local farming. 'Bleaching' of the pelvic bone could be sun-bleaching rather than chemical. Remains would show different levels of decomposition depending on their exact locations and history in the river.
It's not known if the 'missing' photo 509 ever existed. It's possible the electronic record of it itself was a camera glitch. But its occurrence between the last of the ordinary photos and the night photos is interestingly coincidental. Is it possible Lisanne's fall that broke her foot could have affected the camera momentarily? This would also have occurred in this period and the camera must have been in her backpack that she was likely carrying at the time.
This scenario requires that the backpack containing the phones and camera etc remained afloat and basically dry inside in also being carried downstream over days perhaps before being found. Discovered in the low branches of a tree overhanging the river one local newspaper report stated at the time. This is the hardest aspect to imagine personally, but is it ‘impossible’? I don't know.
Good theory. However, the signal check pattern on cell phones indicates that they probably walked through the forest until April 5th.
@@videosdeecologia7468 Thanks. Could I ask if the phone signal check information you describe a 'known fact'? I haven't come across it myself. Looking at the comprehensive Imperfect Plan website analysis of the phones, I can't see any mention of the phone data showing any changes in location.
@@mutinyonthekitkat I believe that there is no data on the location of the cell phones due to the lack of signal... But from the last daytime photo and the first night photo [and the remains found] it is clear that the Dutch have changed location.
yep that's what most probably happened.
Getting lost on a little mini adventure off trail does make sense. It doesn't make any sense for murderers or kidnappers to place the backpack with a camera and a phone which could possibly contain some kind of evidence where it could be discovered ... when it would be easier to hide it forever in an impenetrable jungle. The rolled up piece of Liseannes skin doesn't make sense. As soon as you reach a logical conclusion, something doesn't make sense. I don't think we will ever understand what happened to these young travelers. RIP.
5:22 !!!!!!!!!!
is it really possible that they continue exploration of river 1 after that waterfall. for me it seems to be a stopping barrier for continue at river 1???. maybe it is possible that one girl slides of the waterfall by accident? Would be nice to know how river 2 evolves. Also at river 2 you might miss the trail, because the trail continuation is a little bit hidden. For me it is a matter of fact, that they died somehow near one of these rivers.
I'm thinking along the same lines. So the last picture is at River 1, and maybe they followed it down and made it to that waterfall, and like you said, maybe one or both fell down. With no way of making it back up, their only option is to move forward and make emergency calls.
1. They never showed any inclination to explore off trail all along the route. Every picture taken is of them squarely on the trail. Never once even a little bit off it.
2. They took pictures of their entire route. If they decided to explore off trail why no pictures of this new exciting venture?
3. If an accident why no blood transfer while rummaging around inside the backpack, and why didn't they use the bras as a bandage, strapping or padding?
@@lyndoncmp5751 they did say they wanted to see a waterfall off the trail.
@@alexstar5182
Thats a myth.
@@lyndoncmp5751 if one had to poop i could see them go far off trail fearing people would see or hear. a fall resulting in a broken foot wouldnt produce blood and if you break your foot you dont want to remove socks and shoes, instinctively from pain. and if an injury happened that explains why touristy photographing stopped. possible also the camera fell in water and resulted in the missing picture. they waited for it to dry out before using it on april 8th.
There are a few things I'd like to point out.
The water bottle they had (one 100% confirmed) but did they have a second? We don't know. But who cares right?
In several photos, 508 and the one where Kris is bent over saluting the camera we can clearly see she has the water bottle wedged into the front right pocket of her jean shorts.
So what?
This is a terrible place to put your "only" water bottle. It's half way sticking out of her pocket.
Theory: While crossing the monkey bridge (1) the water bottle came loose from her pocket.
1. She attempted to grab it before it fell, possibly losing grip on the bridge and fell off.
2. The bottle completely fell down to the water and they went on a mission to retrieve their "only" water bottle.
Now problems with this theory?
Photographed in the backpack contents is the same water bottle. So if Kris had dropped it, they were successful in retrieving it.
However; this does not mean they would have made it safely back to the trail if they had infact successfully retrieved the bottle.
Also, these rocks are beyond slippery when covered by water, moss and algae.
It's plausible one or both we're injured after successfully retrieving the dropped bottle and that is where they remained or close by that location maybe up to 50 yards off the trail.
Two more possible support to this dropped bottle theory.
1. In photo 507 Kris is seen descending down to the stream to cross it. On her left buttocks you can see a dirt stain. This stain is too high on the back hip to of been created by sitting down.
It's possible she brushed against the side of the many dirt walls.
It's also possible she slipped and fell at some earlier point. Possibly creating a minor irritated hip or back that made further trekking made it worse.
2. In the photo taken of the back of Kris's jean shorts after they were found, a rip and missing material is either exactly or near the same location as the dirt stain captured in photo 507.
Another thing that occurred to me is that if the police had a drone like that at the time, maybe they would have been found alive.
To me it shows how difficult it would be to find the girls if they lost their bearings and deviated the wrong way. Looking down at that is like looking at the head of brocoli. Virtually impossible to be seen unless one is where the river flows. I got lost in New Zealand, having gone off of a path; I panicked a bit but fortunately refound the path. Easily done and very confusing once you are in terrain where everything looks the same and sound travels in a vacuum. Must've been awful for them -RIP
@@Ack359 indeed
If they'd had matches or a lighter, they'd have been rescued in a day.
To think the rest of their remains could still be there
I believe they are under a dam, but they are difficult to find, especially after 10 years.
maybe that's why they took all of those pictures at night during the rain, she knew it would be her finally resting spot, the last thing she sees
Indeed, it's the worst place for someone to become lost. What circumstances or danger pushed the girls to move away from the well-marked trail and further into the dense jungle? It's hard to believe that they simply chose to be adventurous and explore deeper into the ravine, especially considering they were dressed in shorts and sleeveless shirts, had limited supplies of food and water, and had only half of their phone battery remaining. Even if accident or they somehow got injured, they will be slow to manuaver and not continue walking for another 7 days.
Deberias grabar el camino, o se es dificil??
Please identify which "river" this is! If it's the river in photo 508 or not? Could the videographer please clarify?
It's river crossing #1, and yes that is the location of photo #508
It appears to be the river 508, however the place has changed quite a lot.
I wonder where exactly on the cow path route after the mirador summit is the secret waterfall? No photos of it on their camera ? Was that when they got lost looking for that waterfall? When hiking. They had no real food would be tired and need proper calories if lost. After that , add injury and cold hypothermia , time is ticking in this scenario .
Merci Romain. Etes-vous ce Francais interviewé par le podcast Lost in Panama? Etes-vous le membre du projet qui continue de travailler sur le cas? Ces vidéos sont exceptionellles et nous aident a nous mettre litérallement dans leurs chaussures, et imaginer un peu plus comment les filles ont pu penser en ce 1 avril 2014.
Oui, c'est bien moi. Et merci !
Puis-je vous demander votre avis sur cette affaire, vous qui avez eu l'ooprtunité d'aller sur le terrain? @@Romain_C
Je suis en train de travailler sur une vidéo d’1h15-30, je pourrais vraiment m’exprimer après la publication mais n’hésitez pas à poser une question. Je pourrais peut-être y répondre.
@@Romain_C kan je kyken 2014 the girls sit in a car wiht five young men near panama cite casino who are di youg men looking for that can you
Great job! Thank you very much!
Have you seen any outcrops on rivers' banks around there? The vegetation seems very dense
Thank you !
Outcrops ? No, unless you consider a wall an outcrop ?
@@Romain_C I meant steep river banks without vegetation like we can see in the photo #542. To me banks of the first river seem pretty low with vegetation near water level...
Searches at the altitude in 28:17 maybe are ineffective...
Этот водопад находится, вниз по течению первого ручья с фото 508? Если так, то это и есть место начала трагедии.
In fact, the tragedy began when they decided to go past the top of the Mirador. It is very likely that they strayed from the path and great evil began in the lives of those young women.
🤩 Wonderful work Romain!
There seems to be a wide path on the left, visible between 33:40 and 34:11.
Is that correct?
Left -> I presume that that's along the Southern river bank
Thank you ! The path is the trail.
Parem de falar em acidente.
Que ingenuidade 😮
Foi achado um pé de uma delas na bota!!!!
Okay we have the point where both crossed the river on that path. where is the destination of this path?
Rock??? Just take a look 4:07 I think it's that rock from the night pictures.
Y point of view is that they all look very similiar
I guess the only way to find the place of the night pictures is walking down those rivers with night pictures in hand and try to fit the picture upon a "in loco" place. Otherwise is very difficult to be certain of that...
On April 2nd of the night there was a storm this is supported by the phone logs of lisanne where she looked up weather and left her phone on. So by the third monkey bridge is where they slipped into the river any Idea how big the rivers get during a storm?
there are no storm on April 2nd 2014
@@gtr5860 the night photos shows droplets of water in the air suggesting that it had rained that night the reason why the camera had a unusual date is because it's battery died while taking 509 lisanne probably left her phone on the to recharge the camera. Maybe her flashlight on her phone wasn't working or that her phone camera flash wasn't bright enough.
I live in costa rica on a farm of 120 acres with similar canyons on both north and south boundaries. When it rains the streams in the canyon swell in no time and transform from a gentle flow to a torrent within 5 to 10 minutes. The currents are phenominally strong and can take a person off their feet and downstream in seconds. Excellent footage.
The weather app usage was explained by a contributor on the Imperfect Plant website. Here it is:
"" Hi Matt, Chris and Romain, regarding the weather app that is assumed to have been purposely opened and consulted by Lisanne, I believe that something else completely might have been going on.
The Galaxy phone has 3 opening pages that can be reached by swiping left and right, prior to logging in. One of those 3 pages is the accu weather app/page.
Who ever turns on the phone and does not know the log in pin code, can only swipe left or right and toggle between those 3 pages.
The person who switched on Lisanne’s phone, did not log in / insert the pin code and swiped to the left instead thus opened the Accu weather page. It is my understanding that that person did not know how to log into the phone and the only thing that person could do, is swipe.
Small chance that that person would have been the owner of the phone, i.e. Lisanne.
Not only, the Accu weather app does not update offline. Lisanne knew that. There’s no point of consulting the app offline after x days.
Whether rain was on its way or not at the time the app was opened, the app would not have been of any help at all.
If it rains, it rains. If it doesn’t, then it simply doesn’t. No need for an app that doesn’t even function.
The fact that the phone was not logged in to, and that the weather app page was swiped open instead, tells me that someone unfamiliar with the phone, had been handling it.
Why do I say this? Because the exact same happened to me. I have had to learn how the Galaxy works.""
15:14 is that the place where they crossed the river?
If they died somewhere along this river, is it possible for the remains to be found near Alto Romero?
Certainly not
no
Is 10.05 the location of photo 508?
tremendo ....
Thanks for the effort of going out there and make this footage.
I will have to look in seperated pieces though. I was getting a bit of rollercoaster dizzyness after a while.
I do hope that you made footage on the spot of the night-pictures. And we get to see that later.
As far as I looked, I could not find pictures or video taken from the spot with the red plastic on the twigs.
That would be very interesting. To see that spot in daylight.
I only found a picture that has an arrow pointing at that location. But I would like to see that spot. Obvious they were under some overhang. It was raining during the photos. Yet water did not get on the lens in any of them.
Did I miss that spot in previous footage you made? Or is that spot on a location you don't know where it might be?
Romain, haven't read this before: was it possible to hear the waterfall from the original photo point?
Honestly, you just hear the sound of the river.
А те ветки с красными пакетами на концах что на ночных фото нашли?
the only foul play I see is, that at least one girl was possibly still alive as Panama goverment discontinued their search operations
Most of the locals know it was foul play. Listen to the latest Jeremy Kryt podcasts.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Baloney
I think that maybe Lisanne broke her foot it was found broken. Pretty easy to do in those rough places. I really hope they didn’t meet up with foul play. Whatever happened to them in either way is horrific.
If there was a serious accident why did they not use the bras as padding, strapping or bandage? That's the first thing they'd think to utilise. They had nothing else. They were smart young women. Yet the bras were not use to aid any injuries.
Who took the photos, a number of days later, of the back of Kris' head, one has to wonder. If Lisanne were okay enough to take the photos and then thoughtfully put the camera back into the backpack, she would certainly have taken photos to "explain" things more. Those who found the backpack might have more of a story to tell!
@@macclift9956
Absolutely 👍
@@macclift9956
Also how come the hair of Kris still looks clean and fresh after a week of being out in the woods? It doesn't add up. Nobody would have hair like that after sleeping rough and getting filthy each night for a week.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Exactly, her hair was too clean. I feel they went through hell at the hands of human predators. As far as I could see, it was impossible to tell whether the hair was still on Kris' head or (alarmingly) had been removed and washed like a wig for future use; she had very striking hair.
No matter how awful, I have a feeling those girls would want their loved ones to know *exactly* what they went through; there has been no closure!
My God, why did they go there all alone ??
A big reason ,why the girls went on that hike all alone, because until 2014 the hike to El Mirador was considered as easy 2 hour hike , that even beginners could manage. Lisanne read that on the web, and therefore she was encouraged, she could manage it easily. Because it was planned as 4 hour hike (2 hours to El Mirador, and 2 hours back) , both girls had only minimal food and water with them (only one pringles crackers, and chewing gum, and two small water bottles).
And indeed, they managed to get to El Mirador in record time (below 2 hours, which is even for good hikers rare). A big reason for that record time was: that the weather was very good ... dry, but not hot... and sunny so that they could see easily the path. And the soil wasnt muddy at all. So they had a good grip on the soil.
Because it seemed so easy, Lisanne became overconfident (i am sure about that), because she looked into google maps at El Mirador (we know that from her cellphone-data). Meaning: she very likely wanted to go further, and spot another location..because the day was still young (it was around 1pm only).
And thats where danger set in. Because after El Mirador, a lot of paths are like a labyrinth, and its not as easy anymore, to find the way back. Because of that there is a sign at El Mirador - placed after 2014 (after Kris and Lisanne got lost) , saying: that no tourist should go further than El Mirador, because its so easy to get lost.
Lisanne was to overconfidend. She had zero experience with hiking (and also Kris had zero experience, although she once was hiking in Peru for a small trail, when she was a child - with her parents and a guide- thats it) . Both didnt knew how to use a compass (although at least Kris had a compass-app on her Iphone 4)...And even without a compass: its possible to determine where north, south, east , west is : from the sun alone (but they didnt know how (for instance: at 12 o'clock the sun is always exactly at south... the opposite of south is north... right from north is always: east... opposite of east: is west ). From that alone they could have been navigating. But they were women. And had zero interest in science, and physics. Kris had a degree in art. And Lisanne had a degree in psychology. None of those have anything to do with science. Therefore their knowledge about nature , sky, astrophysics , geometry, math, was literally zero. And so was their knowledge about survival. And they were total unprepared. They literally went for a hike, with supplies, like they would go to a shopping mall.
In my youth i was hiking with my uncle for many years. My uncle was a mountain-rescuer. He told me quiet a lot about survival in nature.. one golden rule is: "if you think you are going for a 5 hour hike, always pack your backpack as if you were going for 3 times of that... meaning: like its a 15 hours hike" ... that amount of food, water etc.. Besides that: always have in your backpack a 3 ounzes (100 gramm) chocolate (which you never touch... even when you get lost... only after days, when you begin to feel dizzy (due to low sugar levels) you can eat a bit of that chocolate , just to increase your sugar levels a bit. Save that chocolate as long as you can (its not to use like food... but for the blood sugar levels)... Because after few days without food, sugar levels can drop very badly.. as long your body didnt turned into ketosis (meaning: bodyfat turning into sugar), you are in danger to starve from low sugar levels. After the body got used to ketosis (that can be 10-14 days) the chocolate isnt to important anymore to maintain sugar levels. Also, whenever you go for a hike: always carry a good knife with you. Besides water the knife is the most important thing you need.
Those are small pieces of survival knowledge.. there is so much more, but from that alone what i said: you are increasing your chances to survive by a lot! None of these things Kris and Lisanne did. And still many people want to believe, they got killed.... people just cant imagine, how dangerous nature is. First world people take it for granted: that they are never thirst or hungry. Food and water is absolutely not a 'granted" thing in nature. Thats why animals literally need to fight eachother to death, to survive.
@@PygmalionFaciebat I agree with you! You seem to know so much about hiking !but why they didn't send a message ,besides the phone calls to 112 ?this is a mystery
@@sunsunny2929 Actually you would be surprised what a small fraction of people in emergency-situations send messages to their loved ones. Lets take the 9/11-incident from 2001, where literally more than 10 000 people were in lifethreatening situation (and around 3000 people died, as we know). Only a fraction of those 10 000 people sent messages to their loved ones - maybe 100 ? 200 ? That scale... Even on the airplanes, only a fraction of people sent messages to their loved ones. Sure, not everyone had a cellphone back then, but few borrowed it from their seat-neighbor. Overall still: almost no one leave a message to their loved ones.
That has different reasons. First reason is: the priority always stays: to solve the problem, trying to survive. Thats always first priority - and the whole mind is captured by that thought "what could i make.. what should i make.. how could i survive ?" ... In a lifethreatening situation, thats always the thing in the head. Its not easy to get away from those thoughts... but occassionaly it happens...
Second: unlike in hollywood movies where the actor knows "the movie goes only for another 20 minutes, .. i should leave a message for my loved ones, before i die" , in real life its very hard to estimate "what will be my last day" ... Actually 7 days without eating (the day of the night shots) already felt like "near to death" , i am sure .. low sugar levels in the blood made their hearts pounding like hell (heartrate increases, to try to supply the organs with energy, even when there is no energy in the body left). The body eats itself to gain energy from it , and thats quiet a horrible feeling. Electrolytes like potassium and sodium, which are crucial for nerves (even for the nerves in the heart) are barely there anymore , which leads to sweating, shivering, low blood pressure (while high heartrate), and frightening heartrhythm-disorders. But still: its not easy to estimate "thats my last day" ... because even in this state Lisanne lived at least another 3 days, and was even able to pack her backpack.
You just dont give up, regardless how bad your situation is. To write a message for the loved ones is an aknowlegdement of dying .. and i am sure, young 21-22 year old girls, with a life ahead (Lisanne had just finished her psychology degree, and Kris her art-degree) ... both just weren't ready to aknowledge "these are our last hours, we should leave a mesage before we die" ...
Thats a hard task.
Another thing is: even when they aknowledged it... after 8 days, your hands are shaking so much, and your mental situation is so bad (halluzinating inclusive) that you are barely able to write a message on the phone, which needs quiet precise fingertips...
And sure, someone could say "but to record a video, doesnt need fingertips" ... yes - it doesnt.. but Lisannes phone died in the first 2-3 days. And Kris - maybe even because of her shaking hands and condition, wasnt able to enter the pin correct. After giving three times the wrong pin, the phone usually locks, and asks for the puk-code (which is around 10-12 digits as far i know). Most people dont know their puk-code. I assume also Kris didnt knew it.
Therefore, after 5th april, it wasnt possible to use Kris phone for video recordings.
Some people will say here "ok, but how about the camera ? The camera was able to record videos... and if Lisanne was able to push the button on it for the flash, she also would have been able to record a video" ...
Yes she would... But in this case Lisanne decided to use the whole battery of the camera to make flash signals, to get a rescue (remember, thats first priority).
After her 4 hour long flash signals, the camera also died (i calculated from information in the internet, how much battery she had in the camera, on 1st april ... it was around 80% .. (the phones only had around 50% before the hike !). Around 30 % of battery the camera lost on the first day, with the daytime-pictures. The rest of the battery the camera literally lost on that night on 8th april, when she took more than hundred photos in 4 hours (the camera is designed to take around 250 photos with full battery, as i researched).
So its safe to say: 6 days before they died they didnt prioritized to make "last messages to loved ones" , because they didnt felt that bad, and prioritized survival-thoughts (that was on 5th april).
Later on, Kris wasnt able to unlock her phone anymore (probably because of her condition), to record a video on her phone.
And the camera was used on the 8th april, to give signals to rescuers (who obviously didnt saw the girls). The camera got empty that night very likely .. so that it was impossible to leave any last message.
They also had nothing to write as far as we know. They only had a map from boquete - that was one paper. They teard it apart, to make a SOS-sign with the small paper-pieces. They laid it on the stone, which is visible in one of the nightshots.
Now all what i wrote is about probability. There is a small chance they even left a message. There are two possibilities for that:
Lisanne and/or Kris found a sharp stone, and carved something into a tree, which at least marks were they died (very likely the location of the nightshots). They maybe carved something like "love you mom, dad ..Lisanne& Kris" ... Thats a possibility both had, even with empty batteries, and locked phones. But to find that tree is obviously hard. Not even the spot of the nightshots is found to this day.
Another possibility is: that Lisanne and Kris indeed wrote messages in their phones, days before the phones died/locked.
The fact, that for the investigators that information was not important to solve the case, and therefore they didnt published it, doesnt mean, those messages didnt exist.
The parents of Lisanne and Kris got the phones.. .and very likely the parents had no interest to feed the internet with the last private messages from Kris and Lisanne, which were dedicated only for the eyes of the parents. If my father, daughter, etc would leave me a last message, regardless how much media-publicity his/her case had made.. i very likely also wouldnt publish his last message (i dont see any reasons why strangers in the internet should know about the last words of my father towards me).
In my opinion, all of those explainations of "no last message" are quiet strong, i would say. Whats your opinion about my thoughts ?
@@PygmalionFaciebat when they attempted calls on 112 without success, wouldn't they send messages and write we are lost help us ?to inform their parents or anybody for help
@@sunsunny2929 Maybe. But their phones never got enough signal that their messages got through. Even worse: Lisanne had her phone the whole night from the 2nd April to the 3rd april on - which drained the battery to zero % ...
The only phone left was Kris phone after 3rd april. And she also only unlocked it for another 2 days. After 5th April she was not able, or didnt want to unlock her phone (because emergency calls can be also made from locked phones, and she saved a lot of battery with that because the phone didnt needed to boot). To compare it: between 1st april and 5th april her phone lost 20 % of battery. But between 5th april and 11th april her phone only lost 10% of battery. So for battery-saving her new method was twice effective, than her old method with "powering on her phone every time" ...
Even on the last day (11th April) her phone still had around 20% of battery. I am quiet sure Lisanne was the last survivor, because the battery was drained to zero in one hour (that behavior fits perfect to Lisanne, because she treated her own phone, and the camera the same way: draining the battery in one session).
But back to your question: if Kris and Lisanne wrote their messages on the 1st April... it would have needed a signal to get trough. As i mentioned: the whole next 10 days both phones didnt get signal.
The first possible date to transmit the messages was when the phones went to the forensics many month later. Usually the forensics doesnt turn on the phone in a classical way (meaning they dont turn on the phones - also because they cant know the pin), but instead they connect it with their hardware, to get to the phonedata itself on the sd-cards and internal storage - i assume (i am not a expert on that field... i am interested in computer stuff, and i am even programming since 25 years, but still - i am not an expert on forensics - so i only guess how they saved the data from the phones).
If there are messages on the phone, the parents maybe didnt told the public , because there was no reason for that. Its quiet a private thing.
This means we maybe will never know wether they left a message on the phone or not. I think the parents could answer this question.
Its really hard to tell.
But to go back to your very first posting: the girls really never should go past El Mirador... and even the "easy El Mirador hike" was not a good idea for two unexperienced girls, without any preperation, gear, etc .. Its half of an miracle that they even got to El Mirador - in a jungle they never was before. They literally had no idea of the trail, and even their map was not about the trail but about Boquete itself. Like i said: its even a miracle they made it to El Mirador. Sure its only one "trail" - but as far i researched and saw videos about the trail : partielly the trail isnt easy to spot. And its absolutely not like a forest trail in europe.. El Pianista is far more dangerous, and would have needed far better equipment. And everyone i see who takes the hike is far better equipped than those girls, with better shoes, raincoat in the backpack, compass, gps, first aid pack, etc ...
Even i with my uncle back then, always had a first aid pack, even in forest we know for 10 years. Even for far smaller hikes than the girls did. The girls were super careless.. not even after El Mirador, but also before. But the decision to go beyond El Mirador was the most bad idea ever (even if they would made it back healthy).
😮
Were you nervous gettin out there by yourself?
there is a tree house of panama Henry in the Woods coffee farms workers sleeping daer in boquete to tree house or boquete and panama
Boquete panama radio station in the jungle
You can t see the girls in photos elpiansta walking path why not el sendero el pianista landscape that s wierd
someone wrong lead us
Great footage! The terrain and forest along the river was exactly what I was interested about. In my opinion the night pictures were taken at this river anywhere between the trail and the monkey bridge. Maybe it was at the time the phones were used less when they found this place where they stayed several days. I don't know the reason and how they got there, but after they got lost I think nobody was involved anymore. They built the SOS and red-bag sign and hoped to be seen. In the night where the pictures where taken they hoped with light signs to be seen.
Any theory of a gang or the tour guide and all was planed is absolutly irrational agains the facts that we have. Maybe there was somebody because of whom they where scared and all resulted from, but not after that.
Esta corriente de agua no es un rio, su nombre más exacto es quebrada o riachuelo y conducen el agua de lluvias desde lo alto de las montañas hacia un rio, en este caso el rio culebra. Aca lo vemos desde arriba por un dron, pero es bastante improbable que alguien recorra una larga distancia a través de una quebrada sin un buen motivo pues es incomodo y hay ramas de arboles alredor. Especificamente en el caso de las chicas la foto 508 es tomada aca a las 1:56 pm, no hay más fotos del sendero, hay un archivo 509 desaparecido y la 1era llamada de emergencia es a las 4:39 pm. Esa brecha de 2:43 horas sin actividad en telefonos y camara fotografica es intrigante.
The theory they simply got lost is irrational and goes against every logical thought process. It was foul play for sure. Even the coroner says so.
@@lyndoncmp5751 (irony on) somebody spendet hours in Photoshop to fake pictures, all have been planned days before, somebody pretend phone activity over days, stood in the night over 3 hours to take pictures, manupulated the camera storage, killed them, used chemicals to bleach bones, took bones and the backpack over a 14 hours hike back to the river. Yes, that sounds absolutly realistic (irony off)
@@zwanzischmark
The pictures weren't photoshopped. They were real. They suddenly stop after 508 (except the deleted on a computer 509). The night pictures are cryptic nonsense. Anyone could have taken them. You really think Kris had such perfect hair after being in the forest for a week?
When the coroner says it was foul play and also all the locals including a policeman, say the same, you have to listen. People were murdered for knowing too much others have been threatened.
Its easy to to fake emergency calls. Takes seconds.
Not a jot of evidence for lost/accident.
Miraculously, the bones only appeared after the reward increase and only small parts easily transported in a backpack and planted. No intact femurs, no spinal columns, no rib cages etc were ever found. No skulls either. Skulls would give the game away if they were shot or beaten.
Not a single pending SMS or WhatsApp message to their loved ones, not a single picture or video showing what happened, no goodbye messages etc. Considering they were in constant contact with their loved ones and all of a sudden they don't bother to leave any messages? The backpack didn't show signs of being out there all that time. Nor were their bras used to aid any injuries and used as bandage, strapping or padding etc. No blood transference while rummaging around in the backpack for phones, water bottle etc. Nothing.
The accident/lost theory is naive and ignorant nonsense. Use your brain.
@@zwanzischmark
"stood in the night over 3 hours to take pictures"
People camp out all the time. No big deal to sit up in the woods at night drinking beers and messing around taking random pictures. Its easy. Far more difficult to explain no pictures taken for a whole week then all those ridiculous night pictures. None of which are either selfies or show either of the women alive. Would have been much easier to just turn the damn video function on and record a video instead of all those purposely misleading nonsense pictures.
Somebody clearly did that for "shits and giggles" as the saying goes.
Canibalismo talvez
"The river"... Is this the river going down stream from 508?
Eso no es un río, es simplemente un quebradon, que en invierno por estar en la parte alta de la cordillera ataja a cualquiera.
@@josevicenteramirez2456 Ok. A creek or stream. Not a river.
Dense vegetation.
I did not see much evidence for foul play. How to hijack two persons, and keep them captive over that time of period? Also the phone activity (not calling Panama emergency), night fotos does not indicate any foul play.
The locals know it was foul play including the coroner and policeman.
Not a single picture that day after 508, when they had been taking pictures all along their hike. Not a single attempt to call home, no pending SMS or WhatsApp messages, not a single picture of what happened to them, not a single video message explaining what happened. Etc etc.
The night photos are total cryptic nonsense.
Foul play does not require them to be hijacked. It could be foul play by the men they befriended in Boquete, so they went without force. And the phones DID call Panama emergency after initially calling EU emergency.
@@kennethmacalpin7655 Weird how "the men they befriended" are expert hikers in the dark and rain. Superhuman, in fact.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Well they worked as tour guides, so it make sense.
@@kennethmacalpin7655 Tour guides are superhuman and can see in the dark, in the rain, and can cross impassable terrain in dark?
This jungle have cannibal tribe
where? i don't see people or animals
Yo I'm very certain that their remains are further north up the river perhaps the the entire river from the first piece of evidence to La Mina lake is a crime scene.
Take a video by dron of canibal tribe they lived in mountains there conejos
The conejos aren't real. They are folklore. They're like elves.
@@kennethmacalpin7655😅😅😅I saw them on girls pictures
I examined very carefully it.
They r existing
Little black African people with white strikes on chest
It’s too bad you couldn’t have located the cabin and cave the girls were held in
Because the girls werent in a cabin in the first place.
@@PygmalionFaciebat the girls sit in a car wiht five young men near panama cite casino way look nobody that who are di youg men
😂
Have a girl on UA-cam 2023 why does the girl say we remember you kris why doesn t she say lisana too das wierd
Why are you so obsessed with the trails and rivers? the pictures on the camera were manipulated.... so all this research is useless.