since i started riding bikes with injection i have not missed carbs one bit - i grew up in the 70s and rode carbs right until efi made it to bikes - side note, my god these new #ktm are utterly gorgeous, the new styling is just to die for
125s are sooo much fun and even more when you have 2 friends going at it together to see who runs the best lap times !!!! Both of you keeping these bikes in the meat of the power which is easier said than done like Sean at 53 I am 55 and still riding /racing and having a blast doing it so cheers to you boys !!! Back to the bikes - 125s once in the sweet spot of the power curve they really only have that speed - no reserve like a bigger bike would have so mentally keeping it there can be a challenge itself for most - which having the light weight does make it nicer to run hard and not get so tired ( even at us old guys age lol Sean ) myself I prefer the carb bikes better imo - I like to tinker with jetting etc , it is the old school in me - I must admit I do have a 2023 KTM sx 250 2 stroker that is TBI and it has the best power I have ever ridden/raced as far as a 2 stroke goes - it really is almost 4 stroke power feeling imo - very nice seeing just how close the bikes compare - nice riding Sean and 999 - as always a great video - thank you both for what you contribute to our sport 🏁
Idk i think i prefer my gen 1 zx14 screaming. Dont get me wrong i love two smokes. Ive had a few but 4 cylinder road bikes are where the real adrenaline is haha
The earlier fuel injection bikes have been prone to break down in different areas a lot more.. I think that is probably the case why they choose the carb one..not for the lack of power etc..
EFI probably doesn’t matter as much on the 125s as it does in the bigger bites. Some people might like that snappier power on the small bikes. It’s probably beneficial though on the bigger classes where you would want that smoother powerband. But it’s always awesome to not have to re-jet your carb if you travel with your bike.
I would still take the Carb just simpler cheaper and for the average Joe it is not going to make a difference, great video keep up the great work Mick NSW Australia
Thanks for taking the time to watch Mick :-) I totally agree with you on the carb being much simpler for the average Joe, all the electronics on the FI system scare me lol
Well I riding KTMs and Huskys smokers last 10+ years. Had various models from 2009 and all was 250's. So I will talk only about 250. And it's easy to say all that biges was good. But damn that TBi model 23+ is another level. Motor goes in low RPM in corners so steering is much better, than you just grab full gas and that thing just fly and fly. And it goes on whole spread of rpm you doesn need to go 8 or 9+ you can go on higher gear with lower rpm if you want. It's all about comfort and options and Finjection giving all that. What also is much better. Map changing! It actually make difference! (Yea 016 carb bikes had also switch , but it does nothing!!) No carb smoker have that big change in sound, power,torque on lower/high rpm, just on click of one button. My bike is also equiped with Rekluse autoclutch and damn. Best bike I ever riden, love it.
Love the sound of both bikes!!! Reminds me of ripping around on my old '83 Honda CR125R back in the mid/late 80's! (Sean and I are a similar age - I've got one year on him...😁😁) Max, would it be possible to get a carbureted KTM 125 to run against the GASGAS 125? I can't recall if the 2023 KTM has a carb or not. I think that Sean did that 1/2 second better per lap on the KTM not due to the engine so much - but due to the different frame and suspension on the KTM. For an exact comparison, you'd need two bikes with the same frame and suspension but one engine with a carb and one with fuel injection. Swapping a FI engine with a carb engine probably isn't practical - although that would be the ultimate way to test whether FI is in fact faster than a carb engine.....
I’m kinda disappointed they just went to electric power valve. I rode ktm from 2003 till 2018 switched to Shercos and loved their 125. Then switched from sherco to tm 144 and I don’t think I’ll ever ride another ktm again lol tm really should put some money into a race team for 125 and 85 cuz no one got a faster motor then they do lol they need to put some effort in tho for amateurs think they’d do good
Think is not the laptimes but the amount of new fuel injected bikes that break after a few hours... Know alot that just would not stay in 1 piece. Got my kid a fresh Ktm 65, it vibrates more than an old 500 2 stroke. Its crazy
My friends 2002 exc300 numbs my hands after a little bit of riding :D My fiances brothers 2004 KX250 is smooth like butter though. Only downside is the stock powervalve and massive torque dip before powerband :)
Why are people surprised that a 1st model year with new technology isn’t as refined as something that’s been produced for years. Anyone who expected the 23 to be as good as prior year carb models is silly. It makes that the 25 is better in pretty much all areas
@@c4r5on88actually that’s exactly what it does. It’s repeatable exactly. Someone’s feelings are not and it’s proven time and time again someone might feel they were fast or slow and reality showed the opposite proven by his feelings between the two maps on the Ktm and the times shown.
@@c4r5on88 Dyno sheet gives answer for everything. Otherwise why would tuners spend so much money for such a tool as dyno if it's better to take a ride
I have no idea why people argue about how its fed. I've had great experiences with both and complete horrors with both. It all depends on the bike itself and how well its set up for its specific mods and use case. The newer chassis was always likely to be faster because thats usually how things go - makers usually benchmark their old bike or whatever is top of the class so its unusual for them to get slower. The carb bike is only keeping close because its on a pipe and its probably making more power over a larger spread than the FI bike. In equal chassis on equal settings there's not really much in it.
yup agreed, and considering the price difference of about 1300$ca, and about 3hp less, but also is about 8lbs less then the ktm, the yz has still better bang for the buck and that 1300 could be put into engine modding making it far superior to the ktm and itll be more reliable
@@stunessa1 Agree!!! YZ is easier to ride and more durable. Most importantly, it is more enjoyable to ride. And that is the thing that is absolutely the most important in a 125cc. With GYTR kit it makes enough power for everyone. These FI engines have a big problem in terms of durability. And their sound is not pretty either. I don't understand why KTM needed to screw up a good bike.
A 125 probably doesn't benefit from fuel injection as much as bigger bikes because with a 125, you're either pinned or the bike isn't running. One or the other 😁
I think the fuel injected one’s lost bottom which is key to get the 125 up and going, maybe small bore it’s worse fuel injected but 300/250 may be the way to go
The KTM sounded crisp and reviver but the gas gas just does it for me sounds raw looks more of a handful KTM probably took it the gasser seemed to bog on Shaun
I could listen to both them bikes riding and tell you which one is carb and which one is fuel injected lol carb bikes sound like their always in meat of power and healthy fuel injected bikes sound lean and like their not in the meaty part of power lol
Honestly what is the benefit to fuel injection? They make the same power, but now you have more things that can break. The HP output is seriously exactly the same at 38hp
Fuel injection on 2 strokes is worthless and pointless. Same with electric start on 125. Pointless as you can kick it with your hand, or rolling at .5 mph on flat ground. All they do is add weight and complexity.
I think fuel injection is a good thing (I ride a 24 Tc125) But I think a kick start would be very usable, I just don't really like carb work but I don't mind kicking it, I love the bike though.
I agree with putting e-start on a 125 2T - if you can't kickstart one of these tiddlers, you need to either quit riding or hit the gym!!! I don't know if fuel injecting two strokes is worthless - it does have the advantage of not having to worry about jetting. That means you can't screw it up and blow a piston because you were playing with the jetting and went too lean.....
Absolutely not.........i thought the same thing until i bought my 2023 husky 125 the electric start is great especially for enduros wear you could be stuck starting it on the opposite side on a rocky hill or somthing........as far as fuel injection goes its wayyyy better on the bottom end ive noticed compared to carb 125s that fall flat on their face and its nice not ever having to change jettings my FI is as smoothas Michael Jackson doing the moon walk......i was iffy at first but now ill never go back to carb eventually it will be a thing of the past just like carb cars im just being realistic!!!
@@billyfletcher9388 Exactly dude, I love my 24 125. I go between different elevation a ton and not having to worry about carb work is amazing, also I agree the bottom end increase is def noticeable.
Think its safe to say, ktm bankrupted itself with the billions spent on 2 stroke fuel injection r&d. I was afraid ktm would go out of business when they bought gas gas & husky, taking both of them out on the way. Its like british Leyland or the American big 3 bailout. These conglomerates become bloated & wasteful. Its not healthy for manufacturers to offer so many redundant models. They steal market shares from each other & never have the money to invest in each brands identify.
EFI isnt a step forwards or back. Its a step to the side. It it simply another way to feed the engine the fuel and air it needs. If you ride a pefectly jetted carbed bike and and then a injected bike back to back, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Different brands, different engine maps, lots of variables. If you took 1 bike, took its carb off and replaced it with injection, you wouldn't know the difference.
As long as 2 strokes are still made, that's the main thing....lovely power, sound and smell 😎
since i started riding bikes with injection i have not missed carbs one bit - i grew up in the 70s and rode carbs right until efi made it to bikes - side note, my god these new #ktm are utterly gorgeous, the new styling is just to die for
That sound never gets old
Great video Max, you and Sean were ripping round that track , both bikes are
Similar on times , nice one mate.
Thanks Kevin
Thanks!
thanks Mark much appreciated
125s are sooo much fun and even more when you have 2 friends going at it together to see who runs the best lap times !!!! Both of you keeping these bikes in the meat of the power which is easier said than done like Sean at 53 I am 55 and still riding /racing and having a blast doing it so cheers to you boys !!! Back to the bikes - 125s once in the sweet spot of the power curve they really only have that speed - no reserve like a bigger bike would have so mentally keeping it there can be a challenge itself for most - which having the light weight does make it nicer to run hard and not get so tired ( even at us old guys age lol Sean ) myself I prefer the carb bikes better imo - I like to tinker with jetting etc , it is the old school in me - I must admit I do have a 2023 KTM sx 250 2 stroker that is TBI and it has the best power I have ever ridden/raced as far as a 2 stroke goes - it really is almost 4 stroke power feeling imo - very nice seeing just how close the bikes compare - nice riding Sean and 999 - as always a great video - thank you both for what you contribute to our sport 🏁
Cheers Mike, really appreciate you taking the time to comment
Brilliant content as per usual. Loved it.👍
nothing better than the sound of a 125 🔥
unless there is two of them...lol :)
Wasp on heat max @@999lazer
Yeah, a four cylinder 500GP bike.
Well I high revving small block Chevy and an 2006 GSXR 1000…
Idk i think i prefer my gen 1 zx14 screaming. Dont get me wrong i love two smokes. Ive had a few but 4 cylinder road bikes are where the real adrenaline is haha
Great comparison video. Slick and informative as ever. Thanks Max!
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! :-)
@keep smashing it👍🏾
The earlier fuel injection bikes have been prone to break down in different areas a lot more.. I think that is probably the case why they choose the carb one..not for the lack of power etc..
they say the 2025 is a different beast so I guess only time will tell. It is a great bike to ride out of the box though
Great video guys!
Thanks :)
What a great sound on this bikes! The KTM sounds just lovely, but the GasGas sound a little lean on the main jet. Great racing both of you guys!
EFI probably doesn’t matter as much on the 125s as it does in the bigger bites. Some people might like that snappier power on the small bikes. It’s probably beneficial though on the bigger classes where you would want that smoother powerband. But it’s always awesome to not have to re-jet your carb if you travel with your bike.
Love seeing you two boys enjoying yourselves on the bikes. BEST MOTO X channel on You Tube.
thanks so much
I would still take the Carb just simpler cheaper and for the average Joe it is not going to make a difference, great video keep up the great work Mick NSW Australia
Thanks for taking the time to watch Mick :-) I totally agree with you on the carb being much simpler for the average Joe, all the electronics on the FI system scare me lol
Well I riding KTMs and Huskys smokers last 10+ years. Had various models from 2009 and all was 250's. So I will talk only about 250. And it's easy to say all that biges was good. But damn that TBi model 23+ is another level. Motor goes in low RPM in corners so steering is much better, than you just grab full gas and that thing just fly and fly. And it goes on whole spread of rpm you doesn need to go 8 or 9+ you can go on higher gear with lower rpm if you want. It's all about comfort and options and Finjection giving all that.
What also is much better. Map changing! It actually make difference! (Yea 016 carb bikes had also switch , but it does nothing!!) No carb smoker have that big change in sound, power,torque on lower/high rpm, just on click of one button.
My bike is also equiped with Rekluse autoclutch and damn. Best bike I ever riden, love it.
Love the sound of both bikes!!! Reminds me of ripping around on my old '83 Honda CR125R back in the mid/late 80's! (Sean and I are a similar age - I've got one year on him...😁😁)
Max, would it be possible to get a carbureted KTM 125 to run against the GASGAS 125? I can't recall if the 2023 KTM has a carb or not.
I think that Sean did that 1/2 second better per lap on the KTM not due to the engine so much - but due to the different frame and suspension on the KTM. For an exact comparison, you'd need two bikes with the same frame and suspension but one engine with a carb and one with fuel injection. Swapping a FI engine with a carb engine probably isn't practical - although that would be the ultimate way to test whether FI is in fact faster than a carb engine.....
KTM developing 2 stroke tech while being billions in debt is class 😂 gotta respect it!
Both beautiful and amazing power for a 125
I’m kinda disappointed they just went to electric power valve. I rode ktm from 2003 till 2018 switched to Shercos and loved their 125. Then switched from sherco to tm 144 and I don’t think I’ll ever ride another ktm again lol tm really should put some money into a race team for 125 and 85 cuz no one got a faster motor then they do lol they need to put some effort in tho for amateurs think they’d do good
WELL DONE , ANOTHER INTELLIGENT INTERESTING COMPARISON TEST 💃💃💃
Thank you!
Think is not the laptimes but the amount of new fuel injected bikes that break after a few hours... Know alot that just would not stay in 1 piece. Got my kid a fresh Ktm 65, it vibrates more than an old 500 2 stroke. Its crazy
My friends 2002 exc300 numbs my hands after a little bit of riding :D My fiances brothers 2004 KX250 is smooth like butter though. Only downside is the stock powervalve and massive torque dip before powerband :)
Why are people surprised that a 1st model year with new technology isn’t as refined as something that’s been produced for years. Anyone who expected the 23 to be as good as prior year carb models is silly. It makes that the 25 is better in pretty much all areas
Will you try to review Kove mx250 or mx450. I think it is the best china dirtbike.
Man that gas gas sounds so crisp! Technology has came a long ways. Imagine the next few years ahead. The first one wore him out lol.
love it i could smell the 2 Stroke watching this video .. great content as normal
Thank you!
You should fit a KTM 150 enduro bike engine to a honda crf150r 4 stroke race bike
I'd rather have a carb just for the simplicity
No only. And for no tbi tpi problems!!!!!
How is a carb more simple?
You must live where there's zero elevation change and the temp never changes.
Brilliant as always 👍🏻🇬🇧
Thank you! Cheers!
WHY NEVER DYNO RUNS?
You know people with dynos
Numbers don't give you answers
@c4r5on88 I know, but numbers is measurable
@@c4r5on88actually that’s exactly what it does. It’s repeatable exactly. Someone’s feelings are not and it’s proven time and time again someone might feel they were fast or slow and reality showed the opposite proven by his feelings between the two maps on the Ktm and the times shown.
@@c4r5on88 Dyno sheet gives answer for everything. Otherwise why would tuners spend so much money for such a tool as dyno if it's better to take a ride
@saymek9373 yes but not for track times. Which is what this is about. Which is fastest around the track
I love the sound of the injection more in my opinion
I have no idea why people argue about how its fed. I've had great experiences with both and complete horrors with both. It all depends on the bike itself and how well its set up for its specific mods and use case.
The newer chassis was always likely to be faster because thats usually how things go - makers usually benchmark their old bike or whatever is top of the class so its unusual for them to get slower. The carb bike is only keeping close because its on a pipe and its probably making more power over a larger spread than the FI bike.
In equal chassis on equal settings there's not really much in it.
YZ125 laptime please! :D
yup agreed, and considering the price difference of about 1300$ca, and about 3hp less, but also is about 8lbs less then the ktm, the yz has still better bang for the buck and that 1300 could be put into engine modding making it far superior to the ktm and itll be more reliable
@@stunessa1 Agree!!! YZ is easier to ride and more durable. Most importantly, it is more enjoyable to ride.
And that is the thing that is absolutely the most important in a 125cc.
With GYTR kit it makes enough power for everyone.
These FI engines have a big problem in terms of durability. And their sound is not pretty either.
I don't understand why KTM needed to screw up a good bike.
cant go wrong with a carb. 🤘
You can!!
@@mixalis6168can you?
This just proves that power really doesn't matter.
Don't tell anyone with their big 500-700cc bikes, they might feel bad.
A 125 probably doesn't benefit from fuel injection as much as bigger bikes because with a 125, you're either pinned or the bike isn't running. One or the other 😁
Are the riders doing clutch blips when accelerating from the corners? It sounds like that almost all the time. Also clutchless shifting?
I think the fuel injected one’s lost bottom which is key to get the 125 up and going, maybe small bore it’s worse fuel injected but 300/250 may be the way to go
I kinda hope KTM sells Husky and GasGas and they become distinct brands again.
Unlikely as Pierer Mobility Group (the owners of all three) is making money hand over fist with all three marques.....
When someone says, 'What does a two stroke sound like?'.
The KTM sounded crisp and reviver but the gas gas just does it for me sounds raw looks more of a handful KTM probably took it the gasser seemed to bog on Shaun
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks dude!
Both are great bikes the KTM fuel injected sounded faster
Not a hairs breadth between them.
Isnt the 2023 ktm sx 125 also with e start and fuel injected
the 2023 ktm is , but the other bike is a gasgas which was still a carb in 2023
Sean actually looked faster then ive ever seen him.
I could listen to both them bikes riding and tell you which one is carb and which one is fuel injected lol carb bikes sound like their always in meat of power and healthy fuel injected bikes sound lean and like their not in the meaty part of power lol
Honestly what is the benefit to fuel injection? They make the same power, but now you have more things that can break. The HP output is seriously exactly the same at 38hp
gasgas have doma exaust
Ktm sounds great
Take the carb
Nothing sounds better than a 125 singing.
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Cheers
The stop watch proves feel and opinion wrong more often than not and it is more prevalent the larger and more powerful bikes are.
Well the 25 can handle better and just enough power to still beat the gas gas lol we need someone to put carb motor in 25 chassis 😂
KTM !
GG looked pretty bouncy compared to the KTM
Brass is Best & learn how 2 Jet ✊
Gas gas
👌🏻
Spoiler alert! The KTM beat the KTM
Πρώτος
Gasgas seems faster but ktm easier to ride.
Fuel injection on 2 strokes is worthless and pointless. Same with electric start on 125. Pointless as you can kick it with your hand, or rolling at .5 mph on flat ground. All they do is add weight and complexity.
Ive got a 300TBI and it whoops all over my modded yz250. Not even comparable.
I think fuel injection is a good thing (I ride a 24 Tc125) But I think a kick start would be very usable, I just don't really like carb work but I don't mind kicking it, I love the bike though.
I agree with putting e-start on a 125 2T - if you can't kickstart one of these tiddlers, you need to either quit riding or hit the gym!!!
I don't know if fuel injecting two strokes is worthless - it does have the advantage of not having to worry about jetting. That means you can't screw it up and blow a piston because you were playing with the jetting and went too lean.....
Absolutely not.........i thought the same thing until i bought my 2023 husky 125 the electric start is great especially for enduros wear you could be stuck starting it on the opposite side on a rocky hill or somthing........as far as fuel injection goes its wayyyy better on the bottom end ive noticed compared to carb 125s that fall flat on their face and its nice not ever having to change jettings my FI is as smoothas Michael Jackson doing the moon walk......i was iffy at first but now ill never go back to carb eventually it will be a thing of the past just like carb cars im just being realistic!!!
@@billyfletcher9388 Exactly dude, I love my 24 125. I go between different elevation a ton and not having to worry about carb work is amazing, also I agree the bottom end increase is def noticeable.
There is one massive advantage with fuel injected 2 strokes - there are no jets to change!
That can also be a massive disadvantage.
Think its safe to say, ktm bankrupted itself with the billions spent on 2 stroke fuel injection r&d. I was afraid ktm would go out of business when they bought gas gas & husky, taking both of them out on the way.
Its like british Leyland or the American big 3 bailout. These conglomerates become bloated & wasteful. Its not healthy for manufacturers to offer so many redundant models. They steal market shares from each other & never have the money to invest in each brands identify.
EFI isnt a step forwards or back.
Its a step to the side.
It it simply another way to feed the engine the fuel and air it needs.
If you ride a pefectly jetted carbed bike and and then a injected bike back to back, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
So how do you explain that they did ride them back to back and said to have noticed quite a few differences?
Different brands, different engine maps, lots of variables. If you took 1 bike, took its carb off and replaced it with injection, you wouldn't know the difference.