My grip with Adachi Social Link is the arcana they choose for him, I played Golden first, the moment I saw the Arcana of his social link I knew he was the culprit, kind of terrible move on Atlus part imo.
Just to clarify, since a lot of people make the same criticism of Yukiko’s development, her problem was never inheriting the in , it was the fact she never got the choice. She doesn’t hate the inn or hate running it, she just never liked how she felt she never got a say in it and how everyone just assumed she was going to take over. She even says at the end of her Social Link that while she is going to take over the inn she plans on trying new things still in case she changes her mind. Her route is less “I’m breaking out of my cage by not doing what others want me to do” but “I’m breaking my cage by making my own decisions and taking control of my life with confidence.”
This tbh One of the main properties of the High Priestess arcana is the ability to make decisions. And I felt like Yukiko does fit in her arcana really well. Understanding the Arcanas, their symbolism and their properties are very important tools to analyze the characters in the Social Links.
Hell you didn't even need to do all of her SL to see that if you do her boss fight you can see she is a bird in a cage but that cage she complains about being trapped in was *open* meaning she could leave anytime but it was up to *her* to leave it not for someone to come by & make the choice for her. Just like how her running the Amagi Inn was her choice & not her parents or the people at the Inn bothering her to do it they even supported her choice if she decided to leave since they understood.
Dude. People get Yukiko's sl soooooo wrong. Yes, she felt trapped but not because she didn't like her position as the inn heiress, it was due to it being intrusted on her. She wanted to make her own decisions and decide her own future. She came to the decision of taking over the inn when she realized how much it meant to her. One of the inn workers even said that they would support Yukiko's decision if she chose to leave. Yukiko was never trapped, she only perceived it that way. She always had a choice, and she chose the inn because everything and everyone she loves is a part of that.
I think it helps if the player has gone through something similar, it doesn't have to be as severe as Yukiko's example but just generally being coerced into something even you were going to do it anyway. If someone else has gone through that it would be easier to understand but if someone hasn't gone through that it might be harder for them to get it. Some people also see no issue with coercing people into doing something if it's for "their own good," these are sick sick people and they are sadly very common, they won't get the character arc at all.
It’s also symbolized in her Shadow fight. The cage opens every once and a while and the bird never leaves still. It’s about her having the confidence to act on her desires and not rely on a “prince” to do it for her.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. I was looking for this comment after seeing him cover that SL briefly. Even in her Shadow Battle, The Cage was always open and it could have left anytime, proving that she was never trapped, to begin with. She wanted to make her own decisions in life and choosing to remain is of her own choice after thinking things over. People out here saying she is regressing and it feels sooo wrong.
Personally I disagree with a good chunks of the points like Okina city for instance, it makes sence for the characters to want to get away form the small town if they have the oppertunity. The Yukiko gripe made no sence though, Yukiko wanted to get away because she felt she was being steered into inheriting the inn and when she decided to ingerit it it was because she chose to. The dungeon randomization and Marie are both up to personal prefrence in my opinon. That and comparing 4 to 5 is slighty unfair.
The only problem I had with Okina City was a nitpick & it was due to December. In December the Fog appears & covers all of Inaba which makes sense since that is where the Midnight Channel rumors are being spread & where all the people are being killed but how come when you choose to drive to Okina City the Fog is also there? & it's not like the residence in Inaba where they are wearing Gas Masks or acting crazy they are just standing around completely fine like it's a normal day for them.
20:18 So of course correct me if I'm wrong, but the concert isn't used in any way in regards to Adachi. The point of the concert is to give Namatame, who's in the shot, confirmation that the kids he believes he was saving are in fact alive and well, and he was contemplating approaching them to ask them why they were hanging out and what they remembered. This scene is only brought up again when the team speaks to him in the hospital where he tells you this. Adachi still figures the investigation team out as he originally did.
@@Mangakamen It's cool. I agree with most of all of your other points, especially with the point of how picturesque the ending is compared to the original. That's the one thing that gets me the most no matter how much I love the game.
What did Cvit do? I already think he should probably just never touch going back to talking about the Yugioh animes again with a ten foot pole cause the rest of his content is to me way better. So I'm interested to hear why.
@@GatorRay if you’re in for a long sit down, MangaKamen made a series responding to Cvit’s critique of P5. Mainly because most of critiques incorrect or inaccurate. Either from incompetence, or just not paying full attention to the game or it’s story. And he did it all with a very matter-of-fact manner.
@@GatorRay bad takes, fake arguments with manipulated footage or just him stating objectivly that p5 is bad game cause he didnt care enough to read 2 lines of dialogue on screen that answers his question
Ugh, yeah, everything about Marie is something I agree with. You want to know how I know how Kasumi and Maruki were made with the lessons learned from Marie in mind? Because I didn't want to *strangle* either of them by the midpoint of the game, let alone the end of the story!
I personally like the slice of life scenes and they're a really nice part of the game and build the characters and make me remember them more, but I get what you mean. Good video regardless
This wasn't just the turning point of Persona- a lot of people noticed how different SMT 4 Apocalypse's tone is in comparison to the previous mainline game. Strange Journey Redux later had its own Marie: Alex shows up to give you true ending versions of the three endings of the original game. Surprisingly, said routes actually were pretty well received because mainline fans were getting annoyed by how hamfisted SJ, 4 and 4A were about how Law and Chaos would give you bad endings (especially with how obtuse the Neutral route was in 4).
It seems like Atlus lost a bit of confidence in themselves around this time. Cause if they thought their games were good enough, they wouldn’t need to resort to adding content that obviously didn’t fit the tone of the original product, or even the more anime based dialogue in Persona.
Wait, where are you getting this from? Most people that i talk about SJR and 4A often talk about them in an negative light and only usually prefer it due to gameplay changes.
@@funninoriginal6054 SJR is just better version that is the popular opinion, you are talking to majority or people who can't accept the changes were all for the better.
@@sarthakarora3212 Honestly i would argue that the new routes introduced in SJR all subtracted from the game's themes, all of them feel like "the perfect ending" and it dosen't sit right with me considering how every base route (yes, even neutral) had the implications that everything could go to shit again. But yeah, the gameplay changes were godly to the point were i can only imagine someone playing the og SJ if they legit can't play SJR by any means, or are doing an challenge run.
@@mothbikini5811 I feel that while Kasumi was a bit of a shifty addition, Maruki and his arc make Royal skyrocket high over the OG when solely considering the story content.
@@HollowG8 I really enjoyed Maruki as well, but I feel his magnificent story was tacked on. P5 already had a story and a satisfying ending (imo). Maruki would've been an even more bomb ass plot for p6
@@GaeaRage0798 A tad late to a year old comment; BUT at the same time I got to like.... dungeon 2 of Royal and tapped out so never really interacted with her. Honestly given how the games are set up, it's just really awkward to try and slide in a TOTALLY HERE GUYS character.
Honestly with the grip on the Main Story (i.e., Marie and her bullshit) and Settings, fair point. Me personally I liked that it was more flexible to customize Personas, but the one point one I disagree with in this video is Adachis social link, yes it spoonfeads u, but even in the Original P4 it was too easy to piece after the Stalker Kids Dungeon. Since Detectives would at least question him and his motives after Marukas death (since he turned himself in) and then he disappears when he was being questioned which collides with Adachi since other than Dojima he is the only Detective we know (Naoto is a private detective who wouldn't have Jurisdiction unless granted permission by the Judiciary) and Namatame would not have the access to push him into the TV world and was present in every single disappearance. So it basically told u the Murderer is Adachi. Edit: I don't really get the point in the video regarding the October Concert either since Subtlety was never their Strong Suit in the First Place (For fucks sake they go into the TV world at Junes like how are cameras not picking that shit up), Ski Trip fair point (even tho it's fun shit at the beginning) bc of the worst character in all of Persona, but it doesn't need to add to the story, since it's a friend group dicking around and socializing. That criticism should be on P4 as a whole (Even tho I personally like it, shows personality makes me love this group), plus Dojima already suspected that the Magical Mystery Group had some kind of involvement and by contrast Adachi too since their partners. Maybe that's just personal preference but at the end of the day but I don't see how that's a red flag when the entire story was already hinting at Adachi from Kanjis Dungeon onwards with Namatame and The Stalker kid being a curveball
Hindsight is 20/20 though as we see that now but we didn’t really know unless you paid attention and notice them. It becomes more obvious when you have the answers and are able to get an idea on how the pieces fit.
Though Golden I feel made a real good addition of giving Adachi a Social Link as he was the one important character that repeatedly throughout the game showed up in some manner and had no Social Link which would lead to suspicions as one of the twists was that someone you knew in Persona 3 betrayed you and they also never got a social link. I think it was to try and make it so people that may have played Persona 3 but only came back when P4 Golden came out would be less likely to guess until you choose who it is since he got a social link but made it subtle by making it be a arcana like the Fool arcana that Yu/Soji/protagonist has.
@@josephconover5270 and then Akechi shows that they learned their lesson, making him like Teddie where his Social Link and Sae's both go up automatically acting as a curve ball until you realize only he could screw you over since A. Haru has nothing to gain betraying you since she already lost her father, B. Makoto wants to change her sisters heart because she wants her to go back to how she was and C. Pancakes, no one else could betray you even if they wanted to and wouldn't make sense anyways since Ryuji, Ann and Morgana were there since the beginning, Yusuke has nothing no parents no job and no money only his art skills and Futaba lives next door if she wanted to fuck us over she would have done so from the moment she found out who we were, Royal tried to pull an Adachi and make him something you do manually but it doesn't change the other stuff about him
My biggest gripe is Marie and everything to do with her. Otherwise Golden is my original experience with it, so the tone being that way is what I'm already familiar with.
Regardless of your views of the persona series I still have to thank you for the P5 defense videos. If Cvit just made a video saying he disliked persona 5 and thought it was bad for XYZ reasons then that would've been just fine. I understand that not everybody would love P5 and that's okay, not everybody is going to like the same thing, or anime stuff for that matter. But what I can't stand is people going out of their way and misconstruing the evidence that completely misrepresent the overall message that P5 was trying to do, just so he can stroke his massive ego to convince people he's right. I'm glad you called out him out for it. I loved P5 and P5R, but I know they have blatant flaws in them. Oh and just for the record, I was also introduced to Persona from P4A and still remains to this day one of the funniest anime I've ever seen. Keep doing what you're doing! Cheers!
The point about Adachi was literally just a time filler. Golden or not it is stupidly obvious Adachi would catch on who is saving people if an idiot like Namatame figured it out not to mention the fact that he literally "talks too much" about stuff from the case to you constantly gives away it's him too. As someone who has played both i do prefer the original but the issues you have with Golden are even more basic than half the issues people usually so with it
I never played the original when I played Golden, so I can't debate whether or not the changes damaged what the original did. But, I feel Golden went more in on the social aspect over the mystery story. Which personal preference dictates which is better.
Honestly so far I have pretty much agreed and disagreed on some parts of this video, but I can say your point about how people seem to almost misunderstand the point of two certain characters to be very true. In general with head cannons and interpretations, I just feel that people can go overboard with them to the point that they forget that it's just what they think, not what everyone else does. Aside from that, I think my feelings on the tone are definitely different from yours, considering I played P4G and finished it this year, so I kind of feel that some inclusions (like the ski trip or concert) don't bother me at all. I didn't even really had issue with that night bar. IDK how I can really explain it, but I don't think it really ruins themes of it to me. Almost about to get with this video, but all I can say is that any complaint you have with Marie is something i'd probably agree with. Literally the more I thought about her inclusion, the more I realized how forced she really was. Feels like they really wanted you to like her, and it makes me feel that Kasumi was done better, even if she feels somewhat forced romantically. Edit: I also don't know if adachi actually did figure it out from the concert? Might've not been paying attention, or just didn't realize that, because I still thought he figured it out the way you did. Edit Edit: I enjoyed the epilogue too, but again, I see how it could ruin the themes.
I don’t remember a single line about adachi and the concert. All I remember is Nametame talking about the concert and how he found it weird everyone he “saved” was hanging out
23:52 It was the opposite for me. Whenever I went into the dungeons I would think "I am bored of this dungeon, when does my free time to hang out with friends starts?"
What's even worse about the whole marie social link is that when you complete it the game forces you to romance her. You do have the option to just be friends with her, but in the valentine day scene she still kisses you as if you chose to romance her.
As someone who played P4G as their first persona game, I both agree and disagree on some points. I disagree on the concert part as I don’t think there was any indication that Adachi figured out the Investigation team because of it and just felt like a filler thing. Though it did have Namatame figure things out there more than anything rather than Adachi who had been leading everyone on after Kanji’s disappearance since he knew what they were up to. Though I heavily agree with Marie since she is by far one of the worst video game characters out there and I ignore her on all my replays of the game since she was just so bad. It didn’t help that Marie is shoved in all the time especially since you can’t even reject her like other girls in the game. I am glad you addressed her atrocious social link where everyone instantly loves her. It doesn’t help that the Golden Anime adaptation makes her even worse since she defeats Izanami by hugging her, stealing Rise’s moment in the concert and apparently being just as good of an idol as her, and her being the sole reason everyone’s persona ascends. Overall it’s a good video
Man if that is true about the P4G anime that jesus fucking christ, that is awful. Seriously, why did they try so hard to push this character? And I say this as somehow who simply just fines her to be funny.
@@shinji2898 yeah that’s true for the P4G anime which is pretty much trash aside from the Adachi-centric episodes and the Christmas episode only because the former gives stuff about Adachi and all those episodes are the only ones where Marie isn’t pushed on the audience
@@Mangakamen I know you have that pinned comment, but will reply to this anyway since it just feels rude to leave ya hanging, but it probably is a misinterpretation since there are times earlier in the game Adachi knew who the Investigation team were with the whole Rise situation, how he leaks information "on accident", and throwing Mitsuo in the TV. The concert scene in the grand scheme of the plot was I think to draw more attention to Namatame since he doesn't appear much in the game before his encounter beyond earlier portions and some optional dialogue. Otherwise it just feels like a slice of life moment to show the group together more. That's at least what I got, either way really enjoyed the video.
You are not alone in not enjoying the side stories in 4 (camping, concert, ski trip, etc). I’ve seen that argument before and massively disagreed with it then as well as I do here. I myself REALLY enjoy them; to the point where Hawaii and the lack of an Inaba trip in Persona 5 were my 2 biggest disappointments with that game. To me, these side events with the cast are what flesh out the characters beyond the main plot. They allow them to just showcase who they are and have fun, rather then forcing things to just tie into the base narrative. They’re what allow the cast to be characters rather then plot tools to me. Hawaii was disappointing because they had an amazing opprotunity to explore this cast, take a break from being “the Phantom Theives” and enjoy themselves, getting to know one another and having fun in a new environment… only to waste most of that opportunity setting up for the Okumura arch and talking about plot stuff. And ever since 3 it’s been tradition for the cast of the new game to visit the town from the previous one. (The hot sprint scene in the P2 town in P3, the school exchange in P4, etc) P5 broke that tradition and it was a major disappointment to me. Those moments are what I go to persona for. And while I LOVE P5… the lack of it is one of the things that makes it weaker than P4 to me. Straight up. Because the cast are more “Phantom Thieves” then they are individual characters with their own setup beyond that.
Did the P3 cast really visit Sumaru city for the hot springs scene? I'm pretty sure that school trip took place in Kyoto. Or maybe you might be referring to the hermit social link for the male protagonist?
it's kinda funny how these same people complain about gender norms, yet when a character doesn't act on these gender norms, they scream trans right away. Like when Mulan stole the armor of her father.... yeah fuck context, appearently she is trans.... freakin morons
Like, it's spelled out for them? Kanji was insecure about his masculinity because he was emasculated for liking sewing and the like. Meanwhile, Naoto just figured dressing and sounding like a boy would be a workaround to the sexism of her preferred field.
@@PathBeyondTheDark basically people say that naoto is trans for how she want to be considered a guy. And that kanji is gay and closeted for his appreciation of effeminate things and how aggressively acts when people point out how he might be gay
I don’t like reused assets but I recognize that it’s not realistic to expect that they will create a new asset and only use that once, from both time wise and money wise cause making new assets is expensive
6:55 I didn't grow up in a small town as much as a suburb in the Ventura County area known for its strawberry fields but this sort of thing happened to me too, not because of corporations edging out small business (not that this wasn't a problem of course) but because the city council wanted to make the city more metropolitan, even going as so far as to destroy a lot of the strawberry farms to build skyscrapers. It was really disgusting. I've moved to LA and haven't been back there for a long time and I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't even be able to recognize it anymore when I inevitably do go back to visit my dad after the pandemic.
I’ll admit, I’m someone who’s never played the original P4 and never really plan to, so I don’t have much of the same issues with P4G that you have. I personally felt that its additional scenes didn’t take that much away from the small-town feel or isolationism of the game since they’re simply small diversions, and the main focus is still on Inaba and the main murder mystery plot. And not only did I enjoy seeing the characters interact more in said scenes since…well, they’re characters that I still know and love, but I felt they were incorporated in the game well enough that I wouldn’t have even known they were added in Golden unless I played the OG P4 beforehand. But I guess that this is mostly subjective and will be dictated by if you either played Golden or the original first, and with me with it’s former. At the very least, I can still understand and respect your perspective when it comes to this. With Marie though, I entirely agree with all of your points with her. People call Kasumi forced, and while I personally disagree, I felt she was incorporated into the plot *far* more organically than Marie. Being that Kasumi had scenes specifically made between her and Joker that didn’t contradict the main plot, yet still foreshadowed her eventual twist in the third semester and even elevated it due to her connection with Maruki. Some could argue you can remove her from Royal and have little change, but since she’s the only personal example we have of Maruki’s methods and abilities, it makes the third semester far stronger than it would’ve been otherwise. Whereas with Marie, her addition feels so tacked-on that you can entirely ignore her S-link and barely see any of her in the main game. And her S-link itself is nothing but needless padding since it revolves around trying to learn about her past, and yet you don’t actually find out any details about said past until Hollow Forest. Marie also contradicts the main themes of the game since while all the other characters revolved around rejecting and then later on accepting their inner selves and flaws, the main problem is that Marie has no flaws to overcome. Instead, her storyline is simply about learning her past, then running away after learning it, and then the others go after her and everything gets solved perfectly in the end through the power of friendship. Even without all this, Marie sticks out like a sore thumb since she feels the most “anime” out of all the characters due to just being a wannabe tsundere with no notable character traits other than writing crappy poetry. She’s not the worst character out there, but unlike with Kasumi and Maruki with P5, her addition adds nothing to P4 and in some cases actively takes away from it. Hence why I entirely agree with your rant on her, as I said. Tl;dr, despite disagreeing with you in some points and agreeing on others, like most of your vids this’s still a very solid and well-made video. And at least with your critique of P4G, you’re still able to give fair judgment to it and admit that it’s still an overall solid game despite your personal perspective on it. Which’s the least that a certain UA-camr did in their own criticism of another Persona game…
Interesting. So, my introduction to Persona 4 was Persona 4 Golden - after finishing and enjoying Persona 5, I went out of my way to buy a used Vita JUST so I could play Persona 4 Golden. And in probably the most convoluted form of media consumption ever, I watched Persona 4 The Animation alongside playing Persona 4 Golden. By the end of it all, both the anime and the game came to mean something very special to me. What's fascinating to me is that I pretty much completely forgot all of the extra stuff that Golden threw in until this video essay brought it up - the city, the night bar, the concert, I forgot about all of it. Hell, when I watched the anime in tandem with playing Golden, I didn't even notice the differences. Probably because I never cared to hang out with Marie, who I honestly keep on forgetting exists whenever I think about Persona 4, even after having gotten the TRUE True Ending........... Dude, I even completely forgot that Marie was apparently the "real" Izanami until this essay brought it up, and then I got all pissed about a story element that I didn't even care to pay attention to when it was first revealed to me! I think the only thing I remember when it comes to the extra content in Golden is some of Adachi's social link stuff, and the Accomplice Ending. (Also the winter stuff). Now, it may be that the reason I forgot so much of Golden's extra content was because of the Persona 4 anime. I am tentatively not sorry to say I really, really, really enjoyed that anime, the point I could say its one of my favourite animes, because my taste is questionable when its not basic. Playing the game alongside watching the anime helped really solidify the story in my mind (not to mention I think it's a really good example of an adaptation done right, since it did something new with the material while also remaining faithful to it). And seeing as the anime is obviously devoid of Golden's extra content, well, I guess my mind deemed that stuff not worth remembering in the grand scheme of the story. (hiimdaisy’s comic series also may have played a part lol) Watching this essay, a part of me is sad that I wasn't able to experience Persona 4 the way everyone else seems to have experienced it. I AM what one would probably call a normie. That being said, I don't think playing Golden, or even watching the anime, diminished the story's themes for me. Especially considering how much of an impact both the game and the anime made on me. The protagonist has become one of my favourite characters (again probably due to the anime, as I found I related to him a lot in there, and also I'm a sucker for Johnny Yong Bosch's voice work), as has Naoto (whose character arc also spoke to me personally, and I hear and relate to your complaints, good sir). I hold a lot of fondness for every character, even those who I am not quite as fond of compared to others (sorry Rise), and I hold a lot of fondness for the small town vibes and small town mystery vibes. So in conclusion, as someone who has only played Golden (and watched the anime), I somehow still get your complaints. And also think that playing Golden does not inherently diminish the raw experience of Persona 4. (But then again, that's just me).
Yeah sometimes it takes another perspective to reveal details we missed before. Also did happen to watch the P4 Golden Anime adaption? It covers the core storyline mostly the differences from added from the new content. It was sadly never dubbed however.
@@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv I did actually watch the Golden anime adaptation…! I will admit I didn’t really like it nearly as much as the original P4 anime, either because I’m so attached to the original P4 anime or because it focused so much on Marie… who I don’t really care for all that much, I’m sorry to say. That being said, the Golden anime still had some fun scenes, and I actually really enjoyed the Accomplice Ending episode
Almost everyone only played golden so don't worry you got the experience most people did. Besides that though i do think that golden can be appreciated if you have already played the original and treat golden as a new game plus of sorts
Man, the intros. I remember how everytime I booted up the original game, I always watched that intro. It was so good. With Golden though, I always skip it after seeing it for the very first time. It's not that I dislike Shadow World, the intro itself just didn't hit me that well. The differences in the soundtracks really epitomize the changes that were made between the versions. Also, after playing Golden several times to platunum it, I wish it was easier to skip a lot of the extra fanservice bits so bad. Because that was what I wanted: an Operation Babe Hunt Sequeal that I was forced to play when I coulda been doing a social link. Like, it was kinda funny the first time, but not when I just wanna grind trophies. I'm not even gonna go into that annoying concert since you did it already. One thing I do appreciate Golden for (besides third awakenings, and some gameplay bits) was that it made me realize Yukiko was my favorite girl. I know she's not super popular, but she fell really flat for me in the original. Seeing her be a little goofier (or a lot depending on how you feel), I dunno, it appealed to me a lot. Anyway, solid video once again. Memes were on point.
I love Marie but that's besides the point, my personal theory on Marie's design is that in her color scheme, the white, black and red colors match with Izanami's design in my mind and with the smaller amount of blue it makes sense in my mind due to her not being of actual Velvet Roomian (pretends it's a real word) descent. Also I think with Marie I liked her character due to the feelings of not understanding others. Social isolation is something I've dealt with in the past, and it tugged on my withered heartstrings to the point of being overdone, but this was a good video.
I often here that tropes are often what make up anime, anime games, JRPGs, etc. Therefore complaining/criticizing about is pointless. But I can’t agree with that. I feel like adding a bunch of tropes will make any story feel boring and unoriginal. Like if JoJo starred an oblivious anime protagonist with a tsundere main lover who beats him up for accidents, with tropes like the beach episode, sauna episode, a dark character with a mysterious a past, then I’d rather watch something that isn’t like 30+ shows that came before it.
I mean to be fair, the tropes in and of themselves aren't bad. It's the way they're used, which is basically just checking boxes and opposed to it actually being there naturally or actually making sense for the character. Like Tsunderes. Digibro even did a video on that one a few years ago.
There is no inherent issue with any trope, any cliche, or any storytelling device. The issue is always execution. The most cliche thing executed well and organically will still be worthwhile.
Yes! Someone who agree on the music part! I always disliked Shadow World on a level and could catch myself rant about it a lot. And, it was my first ever complaint with Golden. I know its just a song but, dang, it bothered me so much. But, my biggest complaint with the game is really how EASY it became: They nerfed Shadow Kanji boss fight! The golden enemies are easy to battle and give you tons of EXP, when you lose, you can start from the start of the floor.... What? What's the point? When you look at the rest of the game, Marie's dungeon is great because it's harder than the rest of the game at this point. (BTW, I am comparing the normal difficulties of both game, og P4 and golden, and Golden is easier.) Okay, yes, they nerfed some of the bosses, but they also nerfed some of the playable characters (*cough* Yosuke *cough*). It doesn't make the game harder since you can become OP rather quickly and your friends got tons of awesome new super attacks and combos. They tried the balance the game but ended up making it easier anyway... At least, they let you beat the reaper when you are not on NG+...
The one who came up with the idea to include Digimon world 2 boss music in the background at 11:10, hats off to you my man, I rarely ever hear DW2 music used in videos and I respect that music choice greatly 😁
Me. I grew up playing it on my Ps2 since it was backwards compatible. And it was my first Digimon game. Can't say I'm too fond of it. But the first boss music was one of the few pieces of music that I absolutely loved. Hated the boss music you get right after since it lacked the punch the first one had to me. Also hated how they handled Digivolving and such due to the level cap and having to incorporated their whack ass dna Digivolving tricks.
I know this is a year late, but man I am so bummed I got spoiled about Adachi being the main villain, in a reddit thread in the Persona 5 subreddit. So here I am, game not beaten yet, but watching a full analysis because eff it, I know the main twist
For some reason I kinda never thought about what it means for Marie to be the other half of Izanami. The Izanami in Persona 4 is a shadow collective in the same way as Erebus and Yaldabaoth are, brought forth from the Collective Unconscious by humanity's desires, which also makes them one of the masks of Nyarlathotep. That would then mean that Marie is like Teddie; a sentient shadow that isn't innately twisted or evil. ... Or she's the actual goddamn demon Izanami, which would screw extremely hard with the established world building. I'm just gonna assume that she's a shadow collective, since that's what the evil Izanami is and it'd be less of a world building headache. No, we do not talk about Nyx. All of the world building in the series after 2 is a mess. Though I will admit that imagining a Devil Summoner making Marie pop out of their GUMP seems hilarious.
And you can take people to the movies for a boost so you can't just *ignore* it Marie's a Canon Sue to be sure. Maybe if she'd shown up the first time and dropped a poem, then you see her in the limo on and off but can't interact with her, and your party members find more scribblings at random (either as part of S. Link events or as added text during the "searching for clues" segments where they're all over town), then it all gets put together and the Investigation Team can be like, "Let's save poem girl!" And then she's less tsundere and more shy girl who's a romantic-type, and then the "I love you, MC!" is implied to be an overreaction and then she just vibes like every other love interest.
Come to think of it, Royal still hasn't gotten an anime adaptation. Wonder how long _that_ will last lol. Or did the P5 anime's backlash convince Atlus to not bother? ....Naaaaaaah....
@@sergiosalazar8702 Not really. All of the extended media is always handled separately. The musicals in one continuity, the mangas in another, the anime adaptations in another. Hell, Persona 3 technically had _two_ anime adaptations with separate continuity while not even covering FES with Persona trinity soul being a thing, though apparently that one was more of a sequel.
I would actually say that Adachi having a social link in Golden is to his benefit, considering how Adachi is the only major character in base P4 without a social link. This kinda makes it obvious that Adachi is the culprit, so if you walk into Golden WITHOUT BEING SPOILED BY LIVING UNDER A ROCK, it does make it a little bit less obvious that he is the killer. But that's just my opinion.
I rather enjoy Golden, it does have some issues. Like the fact Adachi's social link was entirely useless, the additional days making balancing training and socializing a lot more simple and how cryptic they kept several plot progression points, those being getting past THAT hospital scene and accessing the final boss, but with all that time and what not, I hate that Marie was basically bolted to the game with no integration beyond the surfaces of where she was placed. Out side of the few new bits of content she makes no other contributions to the plot so it makes her feel like a side character even though she is very plot relevant. Which sucks cause I actually really like her and her story. That said, her palace is probably the single most brutal dungeon crawl I've ever endured. I don't know what sadist decided slicing your SP in half after every battle wasn't just a good idea, but needed to be the tip of the iceburg that is your torment, but I hope I get to kick em' in the balls some day. For fuck sake.
the only thing I hate about P3s story is the main character dying at the end... it's just a trope I cannot stand, like why can't the main enjoy the world he saved. Also hate it when people try to justify this trope...
You one of those doom and gloom, "my entertainment" types when a subsequent entry does not adhere to strict tonal and storytelling devices? You know, the ones who basically want the same thing over and over again with just slightly altered events and ideas? There's SMT for that (to be clear I'm not shitting on SMT fans, just those who want to dictate the strict guidelines every sub-entry should follow).
The main problem I had with P3 is that the first half of the game is super uneventful, nothing really interesting happens for the first 30 something hours, and couple that with the dull dungeon design and the uninspired designs of those doof ass slime enemies, it was quite a hard game to push through.
Persona 4 Golden was my third Persona game after Persona 5 and Royal. I haven't played the original P4, but I honestly wasn't a fan of Golden. I'm glad I found to finally see someone to talk about both positives and negatives, I feel like most conversations about P4G are overwhelmingly positive and I can't relate. So this was refreshing.
It’s “filler”, since it’s not mandatory to the game story nor the characters. It’s good filler bc we get to see scream time of the IT having fun, but it’s a pretty valid criticism, at least from my perspective
@@sergiosalazar8702 yeah it’s just personal preference, to me those scenes were comedy gold and I can’t really imagine the game without them. But to each their own.
I'm saying this as a fairly new fan of Persona (I picked P5R up in July 2021 and fell in love then completed P4G earlier this year). I kinda like the tonal difference between the more serious overarching story and the bits where you're just goofing around with your friends. It feels a lot like real life with how it mixes those moments. Yeah, life can have moments where everything seems dreadful and you have to face up to something eventually but you can also have moments of distraction and fun with people you love too. Admittedly, the stuff like the bath scenes in both games feel a bit anime trope-y and awkward but having some levity with the core cast of characters you've developed bonds with feels natural to me. It deepens the implication that you're friends with them and want to hang out with them doing shit a teenager in a small town might do.
this is so interesting to me! as someone who didn't know about persona until 5, golden is the only version of 4 I've ever been able to play. Kinda wish I could play the original now lol
Outside of hearing Chie's original VA, experiencing some wonky balancing(Yosuke after his Social Link not having a weakness lol). You aren't missing that much, honesty.
Spoilers for Persona 4/Golden I prefer original P4 to Golden (also prefer original P5 to Royal). I find Marie to be an OK character but, the bad retcons added to the story to justify her being part of the plot is what kills it for me. Why would Izanami use Marie to spy on humanity? Izanami gave the power to enter TVs to Yu, Adachi and Namatame to see what humanity wanted through them. Izanami can also control the Weather at will, so why need Marie to get rid of of the Fog? I've seen people say that Golden made Adachi being the killer obvious but, others also say that him NOT having a social link also made him obvious. Saying how Golden puts a spotlight on him and that original tried too hard to make him not stand out. The new scenes like Operation Babe Hunt, the Beach Trip, and the Concert didn't add anything to the game for me and just made it drag on. People have said that it makes no sense to like the original more over the re-releases since you can avoid the new content you don't like. But, if I'm actively avoiding the new content, then why am I playing the re-releases to begin with? Also some more specific things I have to say: 13:20 - 13:42 Royal tries to push you into getting the 3rd Semester too. Having mandatory cutscenes with Kasumi and trying to push you into doing her Social Link. That's on top of Kasumi only having 5 social link ranks at first which makes her stand out. Maruki getting mandatory cutscenes with your party members all liking him and Kawakami reminding you when he's leaving Shujin. Suggesting for you to do the social link before it's too late. Both Kasumi and Maruki have their Rank 1 events as mandatory too. 23:40 - 24:06 Don't forget how you also need to collect information on the kidnapping victims before you can go into the dungeons. Something Golden also could have sped up but didn't. Persona 5's prologue is longer than P4's and while it does give you combat, it has slow tutorials explaining how the combat works, one mechanic at a time. Persona 4 managed to explain combat with 2 tutorial fights but, I wouldn't say either does it better. It's either 3 hours of no gameplay for P4 or 6 hours of P5 sprinkling in slow tutorials in a mostly isolated area so you aren't making any real progress in the dungeon. 35:50 - 36:11 Don't forget the part where Dojima mentions how he now has a lead on finding his wife's killer! Sure his social link was helping him realize that he can't obsess over this and needs to raise his daughter and to stop making excuses to avoid her. But who cares, perfectly happy ending for everybody! Also, Golden's new epilogue also replaces the credits track "Nevermore" with "Never More Welcome Home" changing the bittersweet "goodbye" and emphasizing a happier "welcome back", both tracks are still great though.
Finally someone else who gets it with P5's prologue. I would much rather deal with P4 because I can skip or at least fast forward the cutscenes, I can't do that with P5 and it makes replays drag so much worse than 4 IMhO, better for a first playthrough definitely but godawful if you're a completionist or just like replaying games in general.
Yeah, P5s intro has more stuff but it’s much longer to explain the mechanics. I got really tired of having the game stop every few minutes and have Morgana explain something else.
I’ve seen many people missing out on 3rd semester tho. Plus, I think Kasumi was implemented much better than Marie. I can’t see the og being better than Royal (it made Akechi good, gameplay improvements and Maruki)
@@sergiosalazar8702 Royal pushes you into doing the 3rd Semester but, doesn't mean everyone will notice sadly. Same thing happened where people had to be told to do Marie's social link. Sometimes people don't notice the hints or they don't want to do the Social Link of the character in question unless instructed to do so. I ended up hating Kasumi and Maruki. The 3rd Semester is my most disliked arc in a Persona game and felt tacked on like the Hollow Forest in P4G. I didn't like Akechi in P5 and Royal did nothing to change my opinion on him. There are good gameplay improvements like changes to "Baton Pass" and the re-designed Mementos but, additions like "Fusion Alarm" and "Showtime" take an already easy game and make it really easy. My biggest issue with the original P5 was the writing and boss fights. Royal did nothing to improve those in my opinion.
@@Gordoniankid The 3rd Semester is arguably the best in Persona imo, to each their own. They didn’t change much of og P5 aside from SL for Akechi (pretty good), Kasumi (build up for 3rd Semester) and Maruki (pretty good as well). Akechi in the og was mainly a villain, but not that fleshed out. Royal gave him a whole SL and a role in the 3rd Semester. In the end there’s no rules for our taste in things, so there’s that
It’s certainly more challenging, but I would argue is isn’t really between dus to Golden’s QoL improvements. That and Chie’s new VA is way better in Golden too.
"I been annoy with People saying Naoto is trans" I never been happier to click like on a video before. Totally not like thevwhole point of Naoto was accepting that she female and having a manga where she looking more female than ever.
Ehhhh, that conclusion is a bit of a miss as well. The whole point wasn't exactly accepting that she was female, it was accepting that despite being a female in a male focused society, she was still just as able. The police/detective field is highly sexist. That and her being the only female detective in her family, lead to a sense of inadequacy because she wasn't taken seriously. Its a critique of japans sexism. So its less so accepting that she's female and more like encouraging that despite her femininity, she's just as good-- if not better than the men in her place of work and in the world and that its okay to embrace the side of her she feels is inadequate. Again, that being her femininity. Hell, Sae Nijima from P5 even has a little bit of Naoto's story. She makes a comment about how difficult it is to be a women in her line of work.
@@aozorahaou2643 Her shadow mostly wanting to do gender reassignment surgery. Her story could be seen as a trans allegory, but that conclusion neglects the events of her story and the meaning behind them. Most people who call Naoto trans really haven't played the game or just blantantly misunderstood its a critique of Japans sexism rather than a belief of differing gender identity.
I have a similar criticism of the Golden opening that I do with Royal Fits better for the extra month If only the opening could've changed dynamically based on the progress of your last loaded save file's completion As for what you say on the normal battle themes you wouldn't hear the new one if you got a preemptive attack
I played golden on vita first without ever knowing any spoilers from vanilla and while I liked Marie’s design I didn’t really interact with her or finish her social link so I only got the good vanilla ending. I was surprised to find out sometime later that there was another dungeon and story that I didn’t know I missed because I didn’t finish Marie’s social link and I was still very happy with the game. Basically I agree Marie doesn’t really add anything if you didn’t play the original and I feel I enjoyed the story more before knowing later about Golden’s true ending
11:30 You know what would be great? If these people actually made a game tackling the subjects they want instead of shoving content into other people's properties. There's nobody stopping them, they for sure have the numbers.
This is just an address to some points made about Adachi because it was the only facet about video that made my brain throb unnaturally. First of all, when was Adachi's method for knowing the investigation team stated to be the concert? If I remember correctly, he had sent the first warning a good while before that, and the man in the delivery uniform was implied to be Namatame. And even if was stated that Adachi "found out" because of it, how would that discredit everything he did to hide the truth and throw the team off base beforehand? As you said, it makes little to no sense how that would line up. Secondly, minor ass point, I know, but personally I feel that Adachi being "the one important guy who has a Sprite, has close ties to the main character, but doesn't have a social link for whatever non-plot related reason" makes for a way worse case than "Has a social link that stops midway and progresses automatically". I played Golden first so maybe it's nostalgia bias, but Akechi had a similar problem of being extremely obvious due to his position in the MC's life clashing with his unusual lack of confidant. Adding a confidant makes it less obvious because they look less out of place up until they are completely revealed to the audience, especially to a first-timer.
@@Mangakamen First of all, sorry for not reading the pin, I got a bit carried away. Anyway, the comparison to Akechi was mainly because the two are so similar in the way they are affected in the enhanced release, getting confidants. They both had a similar problem with being easy to discern when you see them for their unnatural place in the MC's life, having direct ties to, but with no confidant like most if not all other plot-relevant characters. This to say, not having a confidant is actually more suspicious for those who haven't played the game because of how unnaturally they fit in to the MC's life. This was a small point you made in the Black Sheep chapter which is why I said it was an admittedly a minor gripe, even more so because of the variable interpretation of the player. And when it comes to the consequences of the concert, you do state that him deducing who they were there takes away from his characterization as a smart detective, and while that point doesn't stand anymore due to it's false context, the blatant misdirection of the MC and his gang shows that he has already found out about their identity as "investigators" and is taking steps to both befriend and mislead them way before Dojima is said to have to found out. It was only minor things that irked me, but I do appreciate the reply and I do find this video to hold a lot of truth and merit.
@@Mangakamen This is true, though I feel the case Mitsuo Kubo is a much better example of this seeing as the other 3 aren't involved in the Main Plot unless and until they get murdered themselves. At most they act as gag characters and or low potential culprits unlike Adachi who is directly involved in the thick of the main plot from his introduction till defeat and Kubo who while not introduced as incredibly relevant, serves as kinda obvious, but serviceable red herring seeing as his design, portrayal, and screen time don't make his lack of a social link too bizarre.
Love that some people still to this day, can't understand Naoto only dressed up like a boy, because Japanese culture would not be able to wrap their heads around the fact a girl wanted to do a profession that is normally a very male dominated and dangerous career path, not because she wanted to dress up like a boy.
Yha and she starts acting more like a girl later. With this game just announced on switch (today) there already worries because a translator that has bad reputation of changing things and she deletes any tweets that try to tell her not to change persona 4 golden on new ports. There also few people telling her to get rid of the transphobia in P4 Golden (there is none).
concept wise it's not a bad idea... but the way it's handled, to which character it's attached to and the two bosses at the end... yeah it was trash. Like I never used a breaker item or ability in the game, cause it seemed pointless. Oh this enemy is immune to this type of attack? Well then I don't use this attack on them... and then suddenly you have two bosses where you are forced to used breakers. It was pure luck I had enough break items on me for this.
I think Adachi's social link is a mostly positive addition, while it does foreshadow his identity a bit too much, I could say the same thing about Akechi's social link-at least in vanilla P5-And Adachi's Arcana changing from Jester to Hunger helps give some pretty cool symbolism to him dropping the good-guy detective act even if he does try to spoon-feed that info to you in the conversation directly beforehand. I would also like to note that despite me playing Golden before the original, this video is the first time I've ever considered even the possibility of Adachi knowing about the concert, I had just assumed he knew of the investigation team from Dojima like you said, maybe I missed some line of dialogue or something but the concert didn't ruin my perception of his character.
big fan of pesona 4 vanilla, so I always wanted to play golden... pretty much just because of the feather man suits... I'm serious. Even in P5, feather man all the way! And while I enjoyed a lot of the additions, two things I can't stand: 1) The new intro... it sucks 2) Marie, who I swear was named on purpose this way to make even more clear of what a freakin marie sue she is. Also are there really people like the "It's not like I like you" kind of character? Why? All and all she was sooooo annoying and I espcially hated it when the game tried to force a romance on me. Not Marie, I do not want your creepy ass chocolate. Oh and you have no memory of who you really are? Sorry but we ALREADY GOT SUCH A CHARACTER! HIS NAME IS TEDDY AND HE DOES IT SO MUCH BETTER AND NOT GOES THE "I'M ACTUAL THE MOST POWERFULL BEING OF ALL" KINDA BS! And in the last moment when the final boss got me and I hear the voices of all my friends... how FUCKIN dare you to come right after Nanako? Nanako should be the last. She is way more important and she keeped it short and emotional and did start an annoying long speech. And her boss and mini boss before... yeah not really fun if you never ever made use of breakers in the game cause it seemed absoutly pointless. Oh a enemy is immune to something? Well then I just don't attack it with that. Oh these Bosses are basicly immune to everything? Well fuck you then Gosh I hate this bitch sooo freakin much, if I ever play this game again, I will not even bother with her. Glad p5 royal did their extra content way better, to the point where it was downright the best part. Even though it was kinda obvious of the psyichatrist turning into a spiderman villain :P
Tbf fair with Marie's boss fights, her dungeon gives you items for the sole purpose of using them against her, so the break moves aren't needed so you can have an actually useful move like Matarukaja or Samerecarm or something.
I don’t mind the addition of Okina city because while it does make you feel less trapped, the think is I see it like in Higurashi, where the nearby city isn’t even that big. It’s like my hometown of Inwood, WV and then going to Martinsburg.
Can you stop jumping into my brain and taking the major points and evidence I use for my opinions on games? Because holy fuck, the majority of what you touched upon in regards to P4, P4G, P5, and P5R in this video are conclusions I've come to. XD Joking aside, I appreciate the video and the points you touched upon. I do love these games despite the flaws they have, but I'm in agreement that P4 Golden is a mixed bag. As far as the original music for Golden, I feel like it was done more as a nod to returning players from P4 vanilla, offering a "return to glory days/revisiting old friends" sort of vibe that also resonates well with a slice of life approach that would appeal to those who came in from the anime. The problem was in the execution of that, how it contradicts the core aspects of the original, and how the extra content doesn't vibe with the core experience. What's more, games like Persona Q did a better job in executing the need for additional time between the Investigation Team, fleshing them out more and having those moments of levity. Marie didn't do any service to the story like Maruki and Kasumi did for P5's story in Royal, creating contrivances that made the story worse. It's why I only have P4G on Steam for the sake of gameplay, but I retain my original PS2 copy of Persona 4: the story's experience in vanilla is just better, and Golden seems to operate better when you're already familiar with the story in the first place (in theory). Once again, thanks for the vid. AND I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE ON FF9.
Agree on certain things, some not. I agree most of the slice of life additions were unnecessary at best (though a couple do genuinely make me ball out laughing) and definitely see how some additions clash with the tone while the gameplay is a vast and refreshing improvement and yes, Marie is poorly implemented at best. Aside from my aforementioned inconsistency issue with your argument, I do not agree with Adachi's Social Link detracting from the mystery or his character. On the contrary, I think it does wonders for it, giving him nuance and depth without ever really falling into the trappings of redeeming him. Its the equivalent of what Akechi's new Confidant did for him in P5R, albeit OG Akechi had more issues going into it that needed fixing. The overall tone shift is not as much an issue as well despite me agreeing there can be some whiplash. I am a sucker for character dynamic growth even in the face of pacing issues, however, so it does not bother me even if when removing bias I do see the problem with it. But again, I think its just slightly exaggerated (for lack of a better term) from your perspective since the original also implemented this. It just got egregious in Golden.
This why I enjoyed SMT more. I like anime as much as anyone else but the anime tropes don't mesh well with the atmosphere or context. Both 4 and 5 were jarring for me. Some deadly serious thing is happening, then "Beach episode". Also glad FFIX got it's props for being fantastic.
2:17 A powerful statement. With barely any access to internet. This is how I found most golden gems talked about today. Just going in and picking a random rpg game cause your parents was rushing you. Lol.
I respect your opinion, however you did make a few bad faith arguements here- like the stuff with the club, that you claimed was in inaba, that was in fact in the persona 3 location, and the fact that you said okina was a small town, despite it being described as a city, hell, yosuke even comments on how it reminds him of his home town
Probably posted somewhere else at this point, but Yukiko's never felt like it flew into its own face for me. She starts off honestly believing she wants someone to save her from her situation, people around her just kind of see her as a challenge, or something to interact with, referencing the Amagi Challenge. I personally don't feel like the Shadows reflect all of the persons true feelings, definitely pushing them to inevitably reject them- Yosuke might not have liked Inaba, but I honestly doubt he hated it to the extent his Shadow was showing, same for Chie and how she feels about Yukiko, but continuing on about Yukiko herself, She's shaky when she even makes the choice to not inherit the inn during the beginnings of her Social Link. She says it herself, she ''Thinks'' those were her true feelings, but a lot of the additional things she decide to do come back to things she had learned from the staff of the Inn. She feels bad about leaving, but I leave that up to her struggling for her own independence, I think it's her 5th or 6th one, but she brings up that without doing/learning the cooking on her own, it doesn't mean anything, and that the cooks always try to help her before taking over themselves, her social link starts with her believing she wants to break free from everything holding her back, but as it goes on and she has time to talk to someone with it, she starts showing a genuine pride and care for the Inn and it's workers. She goes from resenting the fact that they, at surface level they won't let her do anything herself, to bringing up the fact the workers themselves sacrifice their breaks to help her learn more. The Reporters that come around basically personify her own doubts and parts of her insecurity about the situation, instead of the pride she was starting to develop, they bring up that it running for generations just means it's run down and shoddy, she's content with just taking what they say until they keep driving in at her, instead of standing there and letting someone tell her what they're going to do and letting them goad her into it, she snaps back- And it's a pretty nice moment for her character too, makes me wish a bit harder that Social Links were actually involved with the story to a degree and that the growth was consistent. She says it pretty clearly in her 9th, started watching them while I was typing this out- She just didn't like the fact she was being railroaded into doing it and just wanted a way out, but after everything with Chad Ziodynecock/Charlie Tunoku/Souji Seta/Yu Narukami, she wants to genuinely protect the Inns traditions and people. It's nothing super groundbreaking or earth shattering, but that's my favorite thing about P4 in general, for the most part it's something I could see happening- A kid doesn't want to stick with the family traditions and wants out, and potentially might be worried about becoming the black sheep because of it, only to start to appreciate what they do have after some time to reflect with another person. It's normal, kinda generic, but a believable scenario that allows me to feel invested in the characters Social Link/Confidant. Yukiko might not be my favorite member of the Investigation Team, but she's definitely a part of it, and Inaba. P4 is a special kind of game for me, I relate hard-core to the small-town part you brought up, I didn't even live in the town until I was in late middle school, so when I grabbed P4 from a Gamestop, it felt like my teen-years OoT, but more relatable as far as the setting went.
@@Mangakamen Just woke up, and appreciate the reply- Not at all! Doesn't mean you have to like it a bit; I personally think it just fits a bit more with the whole bird imagery thing for her, going from wanting out of the nest to wanting to protect it. I can't say I relate to the desire to find my own particular path through life without assistance, but that's mostly because I grew up away from a solid chunk of my family for better or worse, I always kinda got the feeling that it was more leaning towards letting people know it was okay if they weren't different from their family and that if they did choose to be with, or like their family it was fine too in the end. I really enjoy being able to shoot the shit about differences in interpretations in characters because it allows me to understand where other people are coming from; I gotta say- I never really thought about Yukiko as being potentially the most "Normal" out of the I.T, between how she appears somewhat elegant from a distance and kind of ends up a wheezing wreck as far as her interactions with close friends go I definitely let that part of her fly way over radar; Definitely gonna miss it when you stop replying to comments after that milestone though. If you don't mind, are there any other S.L's that definitely pop out as potentially shooting themselves or the message in the foot?
Pre-work addition; I guess an in-game version would be that Adachi definitely views the characters grouping up despite knowing the particularly most negative parts about each other as pretty gross, the whole licking each others wounds part; Playing through the game I only saw it as a positive, but Adachi viewing the I.T as what's basically a pity party of people essentially telling each other ''No matter how you might really feel, that's fine.'' is definitely something I've seen in both online and offline communities; I can't say I agree with him since, for the most part they help each other become better people, but at this point I'm kind of used to looking at a games central message and being happy if it at least fits the context of the games own world, and usually that ends up discrediting anything an antagonist or villain says to make it work even if it could make sense- If that makes sense?
I feel like I should make a compliment about the video... But I'm still reeling from the surreal feeling of Kamen having that Digimon World 2 OST thrown in so casually. And the fact I was playing DW2 while watching this...
I love the original persona 4 cause I think it's the perfect balance of having troupes and elements that appeal to the mainstream audience, while still maintaining the darker and grounded elements from the originals that appeals to the more hardcore SMT fans
30:52 Nah, I got into Persona through the PC port of Golden last year. Marie bothers me to no end lol. The slam poetry, the actual voiced “ihateyousomuchyoustupidjerk” every few times you enter the Velvet Room, the very VERY asymmetrical and overly detailed design, finding out from friends who were Persona fans that she was added in Golden and was required to have her SL maxed out to get the true ending (since I didn’t know the differences between versions/went in blind). It annoyed the hell out of me and I could only really tolerate her when she was not all awkward and shit at the end of the game.
I thought this was a common complaint? Yes, she is very annoying and most of that comes from how much she stands out as added content. She is not organically integrated into the story and feels overbearing in an unnatural way. P5R does also have this issue, particularly with Kasumi but also Maruki despite how much I love his arc. It is not nearly as bad as P4G, but I have to set aside my bias for the third semester and admit it is still an issue.
@@PathBeyondTheDark Personally I felt Maruki was incorporated in the main story well despite not having a connection to Yaldabaoth, as he was more or less meant to show what would happen if a flawed yet well-meaning person gained access to Yaldabaoth’s abilities. It was a pretty great and unique twist of the previous Persona games of a god-like figure controlling society, instead of just completely rehashing the same thing they did with Yaldabaoth like in P5S. Kasumi you could make a case for, but I also feel that they incorporated her the best they could (not having her account join the thieves until the third semester) without having her feel forced into the main plot like with Marie.
I didn't own a Vita or have a computer that supports Golden but I am glad that I am not the only one who doesn't like the premise of this game, including Marie. People complain that Sumire is a Mary Sue but fail to look at Marie, who in all purposes IS one. The original game is truly a lot better. Edit: I love the option of Joker being able to make fun of Marie in PQ2 because it's so satisfying.
It might just be me, but having Adachi’s social link change when you call him out as the murderer was pretty epic.
yeah i agree, it's one of the few times when an optional social link actually impacts the story
My grip with Adachi Social Link is the arcana they choose for him, I played Golden first, the moment I saw the Arcana of his social link I knew he was the culprit, kind of terrible move on Atlus part imo.
True love is acknowledging something has flaws but being able to look past them in spite of it
Agree.
Exactly how I feel with P4, 5 and 3 especially.
Indeed, and despite this being common knowledge it is ironically quite rarely understood these days.
Just to clarify, since a lot of people make the same criticism of Yukiko’s development, her problem was never inheriting the in , it was the fact she never got the choice. She doesn’t hate the inn or hate running it, she just never liked how she felt she never got a say in it and how everyone just assumed she was going to take over. She even says at the end of her Social Link that while she is going to take over the inn she plans on trying new things still in case she changes her mind. Her route is less “I’m breaking out of my cage by not doing what others want me to do” but “I’m breaking my cage by making my own decisions and taking control of my life with confidence.”
This tbh
One of the main properties of the High Priestess arcana is the ability to make decisions. And I felt like Yukiko does fit in her arcana really well.
Understanding the Arcanas, their symbolism and their properties are very important tools to analyze the characters in the Social Links.
True
Hell you didn't even need to do all of her SL to see that if you do her boss fight you can see she is a bird in a cage but that cage she complains about being trapped in was *open* meaning she could leave anytime but it was up to *her* to leave it not for someone to come by & make the choice for her. Just like how her running the Amagi Inn was her choice & not her parents or the people at the Inn bothering her to do it they even supported her choice if she decided to leave since they understood.
Dude. People get Yukiko's sl soooooo wrong. Yes, she felt trapped but not because she didn't like her position as the inn heiress, it was due to it being intrusted on her. She wanted to make her own decisions and decide her own future. She came to the decision of taking over the inn when she realized how much it meant to her. One of the inn workers even said that they would support Yukiko's decision if she chose to leave. Yukiko was never trapped, she only perceived it that way. She always had a choice, and she chose the inn because everything and everyone she loves is a part of that.
I think it helps if the player has gone through something similar, it doesn't have to be as severe as Yukiko's example but just generally being coerced into something even you were going to do it anyway. If someone else has gone through that it would be easier to understand but if someone hasn't gone through that it might be harder for them to get it. Some people also see no issue with coercing people into doing something if it's for "their own good," these are sick sick people and they are sadly very common, they won't get the character arc at all.
Not as wrong as players get Naoto's whole backstory. It hurts to see come comments about Naoto on the net.
It’s also symbolized in her Shadow fight. The cage opens every once and a while and the bird never leaves still. It’s about her having the confidence to act on her desires and not rely on a “prince” to do it for her.
@@sfsreiq Same with Kanji. Like the people saying what he identifies as miss the point of his entire character arc.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. I was looking for this comment after seeing him cover that SL briefly. Even in her Shadow Battle, The Cage was always open and it could have left anytime, proving that she was never trapped, to begin with. She wanted to make her own decisions in life and choosing to remain is of her own choice after thinking things over. People out here saying she is regressing and it feels sooo wrong.
Personally I disagree with a good chunks of the points like Okina city for instance, it makes sence for the characters to want to get away form the small town if they have the oppertunity. The Yukiko gripe made no sence though, Yukiko wanted to get away because she felt she was being steered into inheriting the inn and when she decided to ingerit it it was because she chose to. The dungeon randomization and Marie are both up to personal prefrence in my opinon. That and comparing 4 to 5 is slighty unfair.
The only problem I had with Okina City was a nitpick & it was due to December. In December the Fog appears & covers all of Inaba which makes sense since that is where the Midnight Channel rumors are being spread & where all the people are being killed but how come when you choose to drive to Okina City the Fog is also there? & it's not like the residence in Inaba where they are wearing Gas Masks or acting crazy they are just standing around completely fine like it's a normal day for them.
20:18 So of course correct me if I'm wrong, but the concert isn't used in any way in regards to Adachi. The point of the concert is to give Namatame, who's in the shot, confirmation that the kids he believes he was saving are in fact alive and well, and he was contemplating approaching them to ask them why they were hanging out and what they remembered. This scene is only brought up again when the team speaks to him in the hospital where he tells you this. Adachi still figures the investigation team out as he originally did.
@@Mangakamen It's cool. I agree with most of all of your other points, especially with the point of how picturesque the ending is compared to the original. That's the one thing that gets me the most no matter how much I love the game.
"I already painted a bullseye on my back with persona fans"... I think that, as long as you don't do what Cvit did, you will be fine.
What did Cvit do? I already think he should probably just never touch going back to talking about the Yugioh animes again with a ten foot pole cause the rest of his content is to me way better. So I'm interested to hear why.
@@GatorRay if you’re in for a long sit down, MangaKamen made a series responding to Cvit’s critique of P5. Mainly because most of critiques incorrect or inaccurate. Either from incompetence, or just not paying full attention to the game or it’s story. And he did it all with a very matter-of-fact manner.
@@robkoh7290 Oh yeah. I remember those videos.
@@GatorRay bad takes, fake arguments with manipulated footage or just him stating objectivly that p5 is bad game cause he didnt care enough to read 2 lines of dialogue on screen that answers his question
I like ur pfp, Mega Man Powered Up is my favorite PSP game.
Ugh, yeah, everything about Marie is something I agree with.
You want to know how I know how Kasumi and Maruki were made with the lessons learned from Marie in mind? Because I didn't want to *strangle* either of them by the midpoint of the game, let alone the end of the story!
I personally like the slice of life scenes and they're a really nice part of the game and build the characters and make me remember them more, but I get what you mean. Good video regardless
Same with me. I always thought the Persona series was to have a SMT game that focused more on the social links/slice of life part of the franchise
This wasn't just the turning point of Persona- a lot of people noticed how different SMT 4 Apocalypse's tone is in comparison to the previous mainline game. Strange Journey Redux later had its own Marie: Alex shows up to give you true ending versions of the three endings of the original game. Surprisingly, said routes actually were pretty well received because mainline fans were getting annoyed by how hamfisted SJ, 4 and 4A were about how Law and Chaos would give you bad endings (especially with how obtuse the Neutral route was in 4).
It seems like Atlus lost a bit of confidence in themselves around this time. Cause if they thought their games were good enough, they wouldn’t need to resort to adding content that obviously didn’t fit the tone of the original product, or even the more anime based dialogue in Persona.
Wait, where are you getting this from? Most people that i talk about SJR and 4A often talk about them in an negative light and only usually prefer it due to gameplay changes.
@@studio_1 now to think about it. why atlus as a company , reached at this point like that?
@@funninoriginal6054 SJR is just better version that is the popular opinion, you are talking to majority or people who can't accept the changes were all for the better.
@@sarthakarora3212
Honestly i would argue that the new routes introduced in SJR all subtracted from the game's themes, all of them feel like "the perfect ending" and it dosen't sit right with me considering how every base route (yes, even neutral) had the implications that everything could go to shit again. But yeah, the gameplay changes were godly to the point were i can only imagine someone playing the og SJ if they legit can't play SJR by any means, or are doing an challenge run.
One change I can get behind with Persona 4 Golden is Chie’s new voice actress.
I know there’s someone out there that disagrees with this statement.
@@Kaisona2017
Hello I'm someone
@@Skallva Nice to meet you.
@@Kaisona2017 Aw nice to meet you too! Hope you're having a great day!
Idk, her original VA made her sound like a middle-aged woman instead of a teenager, so I’m personally glad they changed it.
Marie is fine the way the Fandon feels is how I feel about Kasumi till the new dungeon with maruki
I personally think both Marie and Kasumi are pointless additions. I prefer the og P4 and P5 all the way
@@mothbikini5811 That's a fair argument, especially since both seem to be jammed into the game. I feel they could have put them in the story better
@@mothbikini5811 I feel that while Kasumi was a bit of a shifty addition, Maruki and his arc make Royal skyrocket high over the OG when solely considering the story content.
@@HollowG8 I really enjoyed Maruki as well, but I feel his magnificent story was tacked on. P5 already had a story and a satisfying ending (imo). Maruki would've been an even more bomb ass plot for p6
@@mothbikini5811 This is... painfully true.
Marie - "Oh. Don't worry. I'll make them love you." = Author.
That's basically her in a nutshell.
Yoshizawa is even worse in that regard.
@@GaeaRage0798 A tad late to a year old comment; BUT at the same time I got to like.... dungeon 2 of Royal and tapped out so never really interacted with her.
Honestly given how the games are set up, it's just really awkward to try and slide in a TOTALLY HERE GUYS character.
Honestly with the grip on the Main Story (i.e., Marie and her bullshit) and Settings, fair point. Me personally I liked that it was more flexible to customize Personas, but the one point one I disagree with in this video is Adachis social link, yes it spoonfeads u, but even in the Original P4 it was too easy to piece after the Stalker Kids Dungeon. Since Detectives would at least question him and his motives after Marukas death (since he turned himself in) and then he disappears when he was being questioned which collides with Adachi since other than Dojima he is the only Detective we know (Naoto is a private detective who wouldn't have Jurisdiction unless granted permission by the Judiciary) and Namatame would not have the access to push him into the TV world and was present in every single disappearance. So it basically told u the Murderer is Adachi.
Edit: I don't really get the point in the video regarding the October Concert either since Subtlety was never their Strong Suit in the First Place (For fucks sake they go into the TV world at Junes like how are cameras not picking that shit up), Ski Trip fair point (even tho it's fun shit at the beginning) bc of the worst character in all of Persona, but it doesn't need to add to the story, since it's a friend group dicking around and socializing. That criticism should be on P4 as a whole (Even tho I personally like it, shows personality makes me love this group), plus Dojima already suspected that the Magical Mystery Group had some kind of involvement and by contrast Adachi too since their partners. Maybe that's just personal preference but at the end of the day but I don't see how that's a red flag when the entire story was already hinting at Adachi from Kanjis Dungeon onwards with Namatame and The Stalker kid being a curveball
Also, Adachi would frequently go "Oops, I said too much!" before he walks away from the Investigation Team in both Golden and the original.
Hindsight is 20/20 though as we see that now but we didn’t really know unless you paid attention and notice them. It becomes more obvious when you have the answers and are able to get an idea on how the pieces fit.
Though Golden I feel made a real good addition of giving Adachi a Social Link as he was the one important character that repeatedly throughout the game showed up in some manner and had no Social Link which would lead to suspicions as one of the twists was that someone you knew in Persona 3 betrayed you and they also never got a social link. I think it was to try and make it so people that may have played Persona 3 but only came back when P4 Golden came out would be less likely to guess until you choose who it is since he got a social link but made it subtle by making it be a arcana like the Fool arcana that Yu/Soji/protagonist has.
@@josephconover5270 and then Akechi shows that they learned their lesson, making him like Teddie where his Social Link and Sae's both go up automatically acting as a curve ball
until you realize only he could screw you over since A. Haru has nothing to gain betraying you since she already lost her father, B. Makoto wants to change her sisters heart because she wants her to go back to how she was and C. Pancakes, no one else could betray you even if they wanted to and wouldn't make sense anyways since Ryuji, Ann and Morgana were there since the beginning, Yusuke has nothing no parents no job and no money only his art skills and Futaba lives next door if she wanted to fuck us over she would have done so from the moment she found out who we were, Royal tried to pull an Adachi and make him something you do manually but it doesn't change the other stuff about him
My biggest gripe is Marie and everything to do with her. Otherwise Golden is my original experience with it, so the tone being that way is what I'm already familiar with.
Regardless of your views of the persona series I still have to thank you for the P5 defense videos. If Cvit just made a video saying he disliked persona 5 and thought it was bad for XYZ reasons then that would've been just fine. I understand that not everybody would love P5 and that's okay, not everybody is going to like the same thing, or anime stuff for that matter. But what I can't stand is people going out of their way and misconstruing the evidence that completely misrepresent the overall message that P5 was trying to do, just so he can stroke his massive ego to convince people he's right. I'm glad you called out him out for it.
I loved P5 and P5R, but I know they have blatant flaws in them. Oh and just for the record, I was also introduced to Persona from P4A and still remains to this day one of the funniest anime I've ever seen. Keep doing what you're doing! Cheers!
I don’t hate Marie but I don’t particularly like her either. She’s cute and that’s about it
The point about Adachi was literally just a time filler. Golden or not it is stupidly obvious Adachi would catch on who is saving people if an idiot like Namatame figured it out not to mention the fact that he literally "talks too much" about stuff from the case to you constantly gives away it's him too. As someone who has played both i do prefer the original but the issues you have with Golden are even more basic than half the issues people usually so with it
I never played the original when I played Golden, so I can't debate whether or not the changes damaged what the original did. But, I feel Golden went more in on the social aspect over the mystery story. Which personal preference dictates which is better.
As someone who picked Chie, the on screen kiss with Marie upsets me greatly
Honestly so far I have pretty much agreed and disagreed on some parts of this video, but I can say your point about how people seem to almost misunderstand the point of two certain characters to be very true. In general with head cannons and interpretations, I just feel that people can go overboard with them to the point that they forget that it's just what they think, not what everyone else does.
Aside from that, I think my feelings on the tone are definitely different from yours, considering I played P4G and finished it this year, so I kind of feel that some inclusions (like the ski trip or concert) don't bother me at all. I didn't even really had issue with that night bar. IDK how I can really explain it, but I don't think it really ruins themes of it to me.
Almost about to get with this video, but all I can say is that any complaint you have with Marie is something i'd probably agree with. Literally the more I thought about her inclusion, the more I realized how forced she really was. Feels like they really wanted you to like her, and it makes me feel that Kasumi was done better, even if she feels somewhat forced romantically.
Edit: I also don't know if adachi actually did figure it out from the concert? Might've not been paying attention, or just didn't realize that, because I still thought he figured it out the way you did.
Edit Edit: I enjoyed the epilogue too, but again, I see how it could ruin the themes.
I don’t remember a single line about adachi and the concert. All I remember is Nametame talking about the concert and how he found it weird everyone he “saved” was hanging out
23:52 It was the opposite for me. Whenever I went into the dungeons I would think "I am bored of this dungeon, when does my free time to hang out with friends starts?"
What's even worse about the whole marie social link is that when you complete it the game forces you to romance her. You do have the option to just be friends with her, but in the valentine day scene she still kisses you as if you chose to romance her.
As someone who played P4G as their first persona game, I both agree and disagree on some points.
I disagree on the concert part as I don’t think there was any indication that Adachi figured out the Investigation team because of it and just felt like a filler thing. Though it did have Namatame figure things out there more than anything rather than Adachi who had been leading everyone on after Kanji’s disappearance since he knew what they were up to.
Though I heavily agree with Marie since she is by far one of the worst video game characters out there and I ignore her on all my replays of the game since she was just so bad. It didn’t help that Marie is shoved in all the time especially since you can’t even reject her like other girls in the game. I am glad you addressed her atrocious social link where everyone instantly loves her. It doesn’t help that the Golden Anime adaptation makes her even worse since she defeats Izanami by hugging her, stealing Rise’s moment in the concert and apparently being just as good of an idol as her, and her being the sole reason everyone’s persona ascends.
Overall it’s a good video
Man if that is true about the P4G anime that jesus fucking christ, that is awful. Seriously, why did they try so hard to push this character? And I say this as somehow who simply just fines her to be funny.
@@shinji2898 yeah that’s true for the P4G anime which is pretty much trash aside from the Adachi-centric episodes and the Christmas episode only because the former gives stuff about Adachi and all those episodes are the only ones where Marie isn’t pushed on the audience
@@Mangakamen I know you have that pinned comment, but will reply to this anyway since it just feels rude to leave ya hanging, but it probably is a misinterpretation since there are times earlier in the game Adachi knew who the Investigation team were with the whole Rise situation, how he leaks information "on accident", and throwing Mitsuo in the TV.
The concert scene in the grand scheme of the plot was I think to draw more attention to Namatame since he doesn't appear much in the game before his encounter beyond earlier portions and some optional dialogue. Otherwise it just feels like a slice of life moment to show the group together more.
That's at least what I got, either way really enjoyed the video.
You are not alone in not enjoying the side stories in 4 (camping, concert, ski trip, etc). I’ve seen that argument before and massively disagreed with it then as well as I do here.
I myself REALLY enjoy them; to the point where Hawaii and the lack of an Inaba trip in Persona 5 were my 2 biggest disappointments with that game. To me, these side events with the cast are what flesh out the characters beyond the main plot. They allow them to just showcase who they are and have fun, rather then forcing things to just tie into the base narrative. They’re what allow the cast to be characters rather then plot tools to me.
Hawaii was disappointing because they had an amazing opprotunity to explore this cast, take a break from being “the Phantom Theives” and enjoy themselves, getting to know one another and having fun in a new environment… only to waste most of that opportunity setting up for the Okumura arch and talking about plot stuff.
And ever since 3 it’s been tradition for the cast of the new game to visit the town from the previous one. (The hot sprint scene in the P2 town in P3, the school exchange in P4, etc)
P5 broke that tradition and it was a major disappointment to me.
Those moments are what I go to persona for. And while I LOVE P5… the lack of it is one of the things that makes it weaker than P4 to me. Straight up. Because the cast are more “Phantom Thieves” then they are individual characters with their own setup beyond that.
Did the P3 cast really visit Sumaru city for the hot springs scene? I'm pretty sure that school trip took place in Kyoto. Or maybe you might be referring to the hermit social link for the male protagonist?
Kyoto isn’t in Persona 2.
P2 wasn’t referenced and I wouldn’t like to say this, but you disappointed yourself with those scenes in P5
God don't remind the whole kanji naoto debacle. I always feel my hands itch whever I hear those discussions online. Great video as usual thou
it's kinda funny how these same people complain about gender norms, yet when a character doesn't act on these gender norms, they scream trans right away.
Like when Mulan stole the armor of her father.... yeah fuck context, appearently she is trans.... freakin morons
Like, it's spelled out for them? Kanji was insecure about his masculinity because he was emasculated for liking sewing and the like. Meanwhile, Naoto just figured dressing and sounding like a boy would be a workaround to the sexism of her preferred field.
It’ll make sense for Kanji to be bisexual.
@@lulu_TheWitchBoy kinda, but I would say it is a fanon interpretation. We are talking about a characte that tries to break a stereotype
@@PathBeyondTheDark basically people say that naoto is trans for how she want to be considered a guy. And that kanji is gay and closeted for his appreciation of effeminate things and how aggressively acts when people point out how he might be gay
I always enjoy your videos, even if they're for a series I know almost nothing about.
I don’t like reused assets but I recognize that it’s not realistic to expect that they will create a new asset and only use that once, from both time wise and money wise cause making new assets is expensive
Agreed.
6:55 I didn't grow up in a small town as much as a suburb in the Ventura County area known for its strawberry fields but this sort of thing happened to me too, not because of corporations edging out small business (not that this wasn't a problem of course) but because the city council wanted to make the city more metropolitan, even going as so far as to destroy a lot of the strawberry farms to build skyscrapers. It was really disgusting. I've moved to LA and haven't been back there for a long time and I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't even be able to recognize it anymore when I inevitably do go back to visit my dad after the pandemic.
I’ll admit, I’m someone who’s never played the original P4 and never really plan to, so I don’t have much of the same issues with P4G that you have. I personally felt that its additional scenes didn’t take that much away from the small-town feel or isolationism of the game since they’re simply small diversions, and the main focus is still on Inaba and the main murder mystery plot. And not only did I enjoy seeing the characters interact more in said scenes since…well, they’re characters that I still know and love, but I felt they were incorporated in the game well enough that I wouldn’t have even known they were added in Golden unless I played the OG P4 beforehand. But I guess that this is mostly subjective and will be dictated by if you either played Golden or the original first, and with me with it’s former. At the very least, I can still understand and respect your perspective when it comes to this.
With Marie though, I entirely agree with all of your points with her. People call Kasumi forced, and while I personally disagree, I felt she was incorporated into the plot *far* more organically than Marie. Being that Kasumi had scenes specifically made between her and Joker that didn’t contradict the main plot, yet still foreshadowed her eventual twist in the third semester and even elevated it due to her connection with Maruki. Some could argue you can remove her from Royal and have little change, but since she’s the only personal example we have of Maruki’s methods and abilities, it makes the third semester far stronger than it would’ve been otherwise.
Whereas with Marie, her addition feels so tacked-on that you can entirely ignore her S-link and barely see any of her in the main game. And her S-link itself is nothing but needless padding since it revolves around trying to learn about her past, and yet you don’t actually find out any details about said past until Hollow Forest. Marie also contradicts the main themes of the game since while all the other characters revolved around rejecting and then later on accepting their inner selves and flaws, the main problem is that Marie has no flaws to overcome. Instead, her storyline is simply about learning her past, then running away after learning it, and then the others go after her and everything gets solved perfectly in the end through the power of friendship.
Even without all this, Marie sticks out like a sore thumb since she feels the most “anime” out of all the characters due to just being a wannabe tsundere with no notable character traits other than writing crappy poetry. She’s not the worst character out there, but unlike with Kasumi and Maruki with P5, her addition adds nothing to P4 and in some cases actively takes away from it. Hence why I entirely agree with your rant on her, as I said.
Tl;dr, despite disagreeing with you in some points and agreeing on others, like most of your vids this’s still a very solid and well-made video. And at least with your critique of P4G, you’re still able to give fair judgment to it and admit that it’s still an overall solid game despite your personal perspective on it. Which’s the least that a certain UA-camr did in their own criticism of another Persona game…
to be honest, i didn't even know those scenes were new and didn't bother me at all when i played the game
Interesting. So, my introduction to Persona 4 was Persona 4 Golden - after finishing and enjoying Persona 5, I went out of my way to buy a used Vita JUST so I could play Persona 4 Golden. And in probably the most convoluted form of media consumption ever, I watched Persona 4 The Animation alongside playing Persona 4 Golden. By the end of it all, both the anime and the game came to mean something very special to me.
What's fascinating to me is that I pretty much completely forgot all of the extra stuff that Golden threw in until this video essay brought it up - the city, the night bar, the concert, I forgot about all of it. Hell, when I watched the anime in tandem with playing Golden, I didn't even notice the differences. Probably because I never cared to hang out with Marie, who I honestly keep on forgetting exists whenever I think about Persona 4, even after having gotten the TRUE True Ending........... Dude, I even completely forgot that Marie was apparently the "real" Izanami until this essay brought it up, and then I got all pissed about a story element that I didn't even care to pay attention to when it was first revealed to me!
I think the only thing I remember when it comes to the extra content in Golden is some of Adachi's social link stuff, and the Accomplice Ending. (Also the winter stuff).
Now, it may be that the reason I forgot so much of Golden's extra content was because of the Persona 4 anime. I am tentatively not sorry to say I really, really, really enjoyed that anime, the point I could say its one of my favourite animes, because my taste is questionable when its not basic. Playing the game alongside watching the anime helped really solidify the story in my mind (not to mention I think it's a really good example of an adaptation done right, since it did something new with the material while also remaining faithful to it). And seeing as the anime is obviously devoid of Golden's extra content, well, I guess my mind deemed that stuff not worth remembering in the grand scheme of the story. (hiimdaisy’s comic series also may have played a part lol)
Watching this essay, a part of me is sad that I wasn't able to experience Persona 4 the way everyone else seems to have experienced it. I AM what one would probably call a normie. That being said, I don't think playing Golden, or even watching the anime, diminished the story's themes for me. Especially considering how much of an impact both the game and the anime made on me. The protagonist has become one of my favourite characters (again probably due to the anime, as I found I related to him a lot in there, and also I'm a sucker for Johnny Yong Bosch's voice work), as has Naoto (whose character arc also spoke to me personally, and I hear and relate to your complaints, good sir). I hold a lot of fondness for every character, even those who I am not quite as fond of compared to others (sorry Rise), and I hold a lot of fondness for the small town vibes and small town mystery vibes.
So in conclusion, as someone who has only played Golden (and watched the anime), I somehow still get your complaints. And also think that playing Golden does not inherently diminish the raw experience of Persona 4. (But then again, that's just me).
Yeah sometimes it takes another perspective to reveal details we missed before. Also did happen to watch the P4 Golden Anime adaption? It covers the core storyline mostly the differences from added from the new content. It was sadly never dubbed however.
@@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv I did actually watch the Golden anime adaptation…! I will admit I didn’t really like it nearly as much as the original P4 anime, either because I’m so attached to the original P4 anime or because it focused so much on Marie… who I don’t really care for all that much, I’m sorry to say. That being said, the Golden anime still had some fun scenes, and I actually really enjoyed the Accomplice Ending episode
Almost everyone only played golden so don't worry you got the experience most people did. Besides that though i do think that golden can be appreciated if you have already played the original and treat golden as a new game plus of sorts
Man, the intros. I remember how everytime I booted up the original game, I always watched that intro. It was so good.
With Golden though, I always skip it after seeing it for the very first time. It's not that I dislike Shadow World, the intro itself just didn't hit me that well.
The differences in the soundtracks really epitomize the changes that were made between the versions.
Also, after playing Golden several times to platunum it, I wish it was easier to skip a lot of the extra fanservice bits so bad. Because that was what I wanted: an Operation Babe Hunt Sequeal that I was forced to play when I coulda been doing a social link. Like, it was kinda funny the first time, but not when I just wanna grind trophies. I'm not even gonna go into that annoying concert since you did it already.
One thing I do appreciate Golden for (besides third awakenings, and some gameplay bits) was that it made me realize Yukiko was my favorite girl. I know she's not super popular, but she fell really flat for me in the original. Seeing her be a little goofier (or a lot depending on how you feel), I dunno, it appealed to me a lot.
Anyway, solid video once again. Memes were on point.
That intro was so not-MangaKamen, you took me by surprise there :-P
I love Marie but that's besides the point, my personal theory on Marie's design is that in her color scheme, the white, black and red colors match with Izanami's design in my mind and with the smaller amount of blue it makes sense in my mind due to her not being of actual Velvet Roomian (pretends it's a real word) descent. Also I think with Marie I liked her character due to the feelings of not understanding others. Social isolation is something I've dealt with in the past, and it tugged on my withered heartstrings to the point of being overdone, but this was a good video.
marie design fits more in persona 5, she really doesnt fit in persona 4, in my opinion
I often here that tropes are often what make up anime, anime games, JRPGs, etc. Therefore complaining/criticizing about is pointless. But I can’t agree with that. I feel like adding a bunch of tropes will make any story feel boring and unoriginal. Like if JoJo starred an oblivious anime protagonist with a tsundere main lover who beats him up for accidents, with tropes like the beach episode, sauna episode, a dark character with a mysterious a past, then I’d rather watch something that isn’t like 30+ shows that came before it.
I mean to be fair, the tropes in and of themselves aren't bad. It's the way they're used, which is basically just checking boxes and opposed to it actually being there naturally or actually making sense for the character. Like Tsunderes. Digibro even did a video on that one a few years ago.
There is no inherent issue with any trope, any cliche, or any storytelling device. The issue is always execution. The most cliche thing executed well and organically will still be worthwhile.
Naoto was done dirty by her spin-off novel (She looks neat with long hair though)
Yes! Someone who agree on the music part! I always disliked Shadow World on a level and could catch myself rant about it a lot. And, it was my first ever complaint with Golden. I know its just a song but, dang, it bothered me so much.
But, my biggest complaint with the game is really how EASY it became: They nerfed Shadow Kanji boss fight! The golden enemies are easy to battle and give you tons of EXP, when you lose, you can start from the start of the floor.... What? What's the point? When you look at the rest of the game, Marie's dungeon is great because it's harder than the rest of the game at this point. (BTW, I am comparing the normal difficulties of both game, og P4 and golden, and Golden is easier.) Okay, yes, they nerfed some of the bosses, but they also nerfed some of the playable characters (*cough* Yosuke *cough*). It doesn't make the game harder since you can become OP rather quickly and your friends got tons of awesome new super attacks and combos. They tried the balance the game but ended up making it easier anyway...
At least, they let you beat the reaper when you are not on NG+...
The one who came up with the idea to include Digimon world 2 boss music in the background at 11:10, hats off to you my man, I rarely ever hear DW2 music used in videos and I respect that music choice greatly 😁
Me. I grew up playing it on my Ps2 since it was backwards compatible. And it was my first Digimon game. Can't say I'm too fond of it. But the first boss music was one of the few pieces of music that I absolutely loved. Hated the boss music you get right after since it lacked the punch the first one had to me.
Also hated how they handled Digivolving and such due to the level cap and having to incorporated their whack ass dna Digivolving tricks.
I know this is a year late, but man I am so bummed I got spoiled about Adachi being the main villain, in a reddit thread in the Persona 5 subreddit. So here I am, game not beaten yet, but watching a full analysis because eff it, I know the main twist
For some reason I kinda never thought about what it means for Marie to be the other half of Izanami. The Izanami in Persona 4 is a shadow collective in the same way as Erebus and Yaldabaoth are, brought forth from the Collective Unconscious by humanity's desires, which also makes them one of the masks of Nyarlathotep. That would then mean that Marie is like Teddie; a sentient shadow that isn't innately twisted or evil. ... Or she's the actual goddamn demon Izanami, which would screw extremely hard with the established world building. I'm just gonna assume that she's a shadow collective, since that's what the evil Izanami is and it'd be less of a world building headache.
No, we do not talk about Nyx. All of the world building in the series after 2 is a mess.
Though I will admit that imagining a Devil Summoner making Marie pop out of their GUMP seems hilarious.
Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't touched Golden at all but I will keep it in mind when I get to it.
And you can take people to the movies for a boost so you can't just *ignore* it
Marie's a Canon Sue to be sure.
Maybe if she'd shown up the first time and dropped a poem, then you see her in the limo on and off but can't interact with her, and your party members find more scribblings at random (either as part of S. Link events or as added text during the "searching for clues" segments where they're all over town), then it all gets put together and the Investigation Team can be like, "Let's save poem girl!"
And then she's less tsundere and more shy girl who's a romantic-type, and then the "I love you, MC!" is implied to be an overreaction and then she just vibes like every other love interest.
Tsundere is a overused trope anyway, just admit that you are a submissive that gets turned on by insults and stop pretending its deep or anything
@@PancakemonsterFO4 But we gotta get that AnImE SLapStICk ComEDy!
@@kirbycommon7570 ...and the banana peel goes KYAAA...!
Come to think of it, Royal still hasn't gotten an anime adaptation. Wonder how long _that_ will last lol. Or did the P5 anime's backlash convince Atlus to not bother?
....Naaaaaaah....
I’d be interested if they adapt the P5 Manga
@@sergiosalazar8702 They won't.
@@mattwo7 It’s unlikely, but if they announce it next year, there’s still a chance
@@sergiosalazar8702 Not really. All of the extended media is always handled separately. The musicals in one continuity, the mangas in another, the anime adaptations in another. Hell, Persona 3 technically had _two_ anime adaptations with separate continuity while not even covering FES with Persona trinity soul being a thing, though apparently that one was more of a sequel.
@@mattwo7 I know. I’m just saying they could do something similar, so instead of writing the season they just follow the manga
I would actually say that Adachi having a social link in Golden is to his benefit, considering how Adachi is the only major character in base P4 without a social link. This kinda makes it obvious that Adachi is the culprit, so if you walk into Golden WITHOUT BEING SPOILED BY LIVING UNDER A ROCK, it does make it a little bit less obvious that he is the killer. But that's just my opinion.
I hope P6 goes back to a more down to earth story and cast of characters
or hell, brings back more of the horror elements of past personas
Idc as long as it’s good
16:31 I swear Mangakamen looks like he's going to cut me with a spoon so he can watch the life essence drain from my body.
Great video manga and editor.🙂
I rather enjoy Golden, it does have some issues. Like the fact Adachi's social link was entirely useless, the additional days making balancing training and socializing a lot more simple and how cryptic they kept several plot progression points, those being getting past THAT hospital scene and accessing the final boss, but with all that time and what not, I hate that Marie was basically bolted to the game with no integration beyond the surfaces of where she was placed. Out side of the few new bits of content she makes no other contributions to the plot so it makes her feel like a side character even though she is very plot relevant. Which sucks cause I actually really like her and her story. That said, her palace is probably the single most brutal dungeon crawl I've ever endured. I don't know what sadist decided slicing your SP in half after every battle wasn't just a good idea, but needed to be the tip of the iceburg that is your torment, but I hope I get to kick em' in the balls some day. For fuck sake.
Oh yes, the good ol "Tha gas station clerk was an evil god behind everything" game. Such a classic
@@Mangakamen I can hear it (0_0)
Damn I love Persona 3's themes and message but God damn does P4 and P5 blow it up with it's characters and gameplay.
the only thing I hate about P3s story is the main character dying at the end... it's just a trope I cannot stand, like why can't the main enjoy the world he saved. Also hate it when people try to justify this trope...
@@toongrowner1 because people die when they are -killed- making agreements to sacrifice their very being to lock away the embodiment of death to all.
You one of those doom and gloom, "my entertainment" types when a subsequent entry does not adhere to strict tonal and storytelling devices? You know, the ones who basically want the same thing over and over again with just slightly altered events and ideas? There's SMT for that (to be clear I'm not shitting on SMT fans, just those who want to dictate the strict guidelines every sub-entry should follow).
The main problem I had with P3 is that the first half of the game is super uneventful, nothing really interesting happens for the first 30 something hours, and couple that with the dull dungeon design and the uninspired designs of those doof ass slime enemies, it was quite a hard game to push through.
@@toongrowner1 Wdym? That was great
I never had a problem with Golden.
Me neither.
Persona 4 Golden was my third Persona game after Persona 5 and Royal. I haven't played the original P4, but I honestly wasn't a fan of Golden. I'm glad I found to finally see someone to talk about both positives and negatives, I feel like most conversations about P4G are overwhelmingly positive and I can't relate. So this was refreshing.
i seriously dont get why people complain about the fun trips they take, they were all hilarious and entertaining. Basically just nit picking.
but yeah i hate marie
It’s “filler”, since it’s not mandatory to the game story nor the characters. It’s good filler bc we get to see scream time of the IT having fun, but it’s a pretty valid criticism, at least from my perspective
@@sergiosalazar8702 yeah it’s just personal preference, to me those scenes were comedy gold and I can’t really imagine the game without them. But to each their own.
I'm saying this as a fairly new fan of Persona (I picked P5R up in July 2021 and fell in love then completed P4G earlier this year). I kinda like the tonal difference between the more serious overarching story and the bits where you're just goofing around with your friends. It feels a lot like real life with how it mixes those moments. Yeah, life can have moments where everything seems dreadful and you have to face up to something eventually but you can also have moments of distraction and fun with people you love too.
Admittedly, the stuff like the bath scenes in both games feel a bit anime trope-y and awkward but having some levity with the core cast of characters you've developed bonds with feels natural to me. It deepens the implication that you're friends with them and want to hang out with them doing shit a teenager in a small town might do.
this is so interesting to me! as someone who didn't know about persona until 5, golden is the only version of 4 I've ever been able to play. Kinda wish I could play the original now lol
Outside of hearing Chie's original VA, experiencing some wonky balancing(Yosuke after his Social Link not having a weakness lol).
You aren't missing that much, honesty.
Spoilers for Persona 4/Golden
I prefer original P4 to Golden (also prefer original P5 to Royal). I find Marie to be an OK character but, the bad retcons added to the story to justify her being part of the plot is what kills it for me. Why would Izanami use Marie to spy on humanity? Izanami gave the power to enter TVs to Yu, Adachi and Namatame to see what humanity wanted through them. Izanami can also control the Weather at will, so why need Marie to get rid of of the Fog?
I've seen people say that Golden made Adachi being the killer obvious but, others also say that him NOT having a social link also made him obvious. Saying how Golden puts a spotlight on him and that original tried too hard to make him not stand out. The new scenes like Operation Babe Hunt, the Beach Trip, and the Concert didn't add anything to the game for me and just made it drag on. People have said that it makes no sense to like the original more over the re-releases since you can avoid the new content you don't like. But, if I'm actively avoiding the new content, then why am I playing the re-releases to begin with?
Also some more specific things I have to say:
13:20 - 13:42
Royal tries to push you into getting the 3rd Semester too. Having mandatory cutscenes with Kasumi and trying to push you into doing her Social Link. That's on top of Kasumi only having 5 social link ranks at first which makes her stand out. Maruki getting mandatory cutscenes with your party members all liking him and Kawakami reminding you when he's leaving Shujin. Suggesting for you to do the social link before it's too late. Both Kasumi and Maruki have their Rank 1 events as mandatory too.
23:40 - 24:06
Don't forget how you also need to collect information on the kidnapping victims before you can go into the dungeons. Something Golden also could have sped up but didn't. Persona 5's prologue is longer than P4's and while it does give you combat, it has slow tutorials explaining how the combat works, one mechanic at a time. Persona 4 managed to explain combat with 2 tutorial fights but, I wouldn't say either does it better. It's either 3 hours of no gameplay for P4 or 6 hours of P5 sprinkling in slow tutorials in a mostly isolated area so you aren't making any real progress in the dungeon.
35:50 - 36:11
Don't forget the part where Dojima mentions how he now has a lead on finding his wife's killer! Sure his social link was helping him realize that he can't obsess over this and needs to raise his daughter and to stop making excuses to avoid her. But who cares, perfectly happy ending for everybody! Also, Golden's new epilogue also replaces the credits track "Nevermore" with "Never More Welcome Home" changing the bittersweet "goodbye" and emphasizing a happier "welcome back", both tracks are still great though.
Finally someone else who gets it with P5's prologue. I would much rather deal with P4 because I can skip or at least fast forward the cutscenes, I can't do that with P5 and it makes replays drag so much worse than 4 IMhO, better for a first playthrough definitely but godawful if you're a completionist or just like replaying games in general.
Yeah, P5s intro has more stuff but it’s much longer to explain the mechanics. I got really tired of having the game stop every few minutes and have Morgana explain something else.
I’ve seen many people missing out on 3rd semester tho. Plus, I think Kasumi was implemented much better than Marie. I can’t see the og being better than Royal (it made Akechi good, gameplay improvements and Maruki)
@@sergiosalazar8702 Royal pushes you into doing the 3rd Semester but, doesn't mean everyone will notice sadly. Same thing happened where people had to be told to do Marie's social link. Sometimes people don't notice the hints or they don't want to do the Social Link of the character in question unless instructed to do so.
I ended up hating Kasumi and Maruki. The 3rd Semester is my most disliked arc in a Persona game and felt tacked on like the Hollow Forest in P4G. I didn't like Akechi in P5 and Royal did nothing to change my opinion on him. There are good gameplay improvements like changes to "Baton Pass" and the re-designed Mementos but, additions like "Fusion Alarm" and "Showtime" take an already easy game and make it really easy.
My biggest issue with the original P5 was the writing and boss fights. Royal did nothing to improve those in my opinion.
@@Gordoniankid The 3rd Semester is arguably the best in Persona imo, to each their own.
They didn’t change much of og P5 aside from SL for Akechi (pretty good), Kasumi (build up for 3rd Semester) and Maruki (pretty good as well).
Akechi in the og was mainly a villain, but not that fleshed out. Royal gave him a whole SL and a role in the 3rd Semester. In the end there’s no rules for our taste in things, so there’s that
I think playing the OG version of Persona 4 is more better and challenging in my opinion.
It’s certainly more challenging, but I would argue is isn’t really between dus to Golden’s QoL improvements. That and Chie’s new VA is way better in Golden too.
"I been annoy with People saying Naoto is trans" I never been happier to click like on a video before. Totally not like thevwhole point of Naoto was accepting that she female and having a manga where she looking more female than ever.
Ehhhh, that conclusion is a bit of a miss as well. The whole point wasn't exactly accepting that she was female, it was accepting that despite being a female in a male focused society, she was still just as able. The police/detective field is highly sexist. That and her being the only female detective in her family, lead to a sense of inadequacy because she wasn't taken seriously. Its a critique of japans sexism.
So its less so accepting that she's female and more like encouraging that despite her femininity, she's just as good-- if not better than the men in her place of work and in the world and that its okay to embrace the side of her she feels is inadequate. Again, that being her femininity.
Hell, Sae Nijima from P5 even has a little bit of Naoto's story. She makes a comment about how difficult it is to be a women in her line of work.
@@kenamada5451 Then where did the normies get the idea Naoto is Trans from?
@@aozorahaou2643 Her shadow mostly wanting to do gender reassignment surgery.
Her story could be seen as a trans allegory, but that conclusion neglects the events of her story and the meaning behind them. Most people who call Naoto trans really haven't played the game or just blantantly misunderstood its a critique of Japans sexism rather than a belief of differing gender identity.
I have a similar criticism of the Golden opening that I do with Royal
Fits better for the extra month
If only the opening could've changed dynamically based on the progress of your last loaded save file's completion
As for what you say on the normal battle themes you wouldn't hear the new one if you got a preemptive attack
Persona 4 the animation FTW
I played golden on vita first without ever knowing any spoilers from vanilla and while I liked Marie’s design I didn’t really interact with her or finish her social link so I only got the good vanilla ending. I was surprised to find out sometime later that there was another dungeon and story that I didn’t know I missed because I didn’t finish Marie’s social link and I was still very happy with the game. Basically I agree Marie doesn’t really add anything if you didn’t play the original and I feel I enjoyed the story more before knowing later about Golden’s true ending
11:30
You know what would be great? If these people actually made a game tackling the subjects they want instead of shoving content into other people's properties. There's nobody stopping them, they for sure have the numbers.
This is just an address to some points made about Adachi because it was the only facet about video that made my brain throb unnaturally.
First of all, when was Adachi's method for knowing the investigation team stated to be the concert? If I remember correctly, he had sent the first warning a good while before that, and the man in the delivery uniform was implied to be Namatame. And even if was stated that Adachi "found out" because of it, how would that discredit everything he did to hide the truth and throw the team off base beforehand? As you said, it makes little to no sense how that would line up.
Secondly, minor ass point, I know, but personally I feel that Adachi being "the one important guy who has a Sprite, has close ties to the main character, but doesn't have a social link for whatever non-plot related reason" makes for a way worse case than "Has a social link that stops midway and progresses automatically". I played Golden first so maybe it's nostalgia bias, but Akechi had a similar problem of being extremely obvious due to his position in the MC's life clashing with his unusual lack of confidant. Adding a confidant makes it less obvious because they look less out of place up until they are completely revealed to the audience, especially to a first-timer.
@@Mangakamen First of all, sorry for not reading the pin, I got a bit carried away.
Anyway, the comparison to Akechi was mainly because the two are so similar in the way they are affected in the enhanced release, getting confidants. They both had a similar problem with being easy to discern when you see them for their unnatural place in the MC's life, having direct ties to, but with no confidant like most if not all other plot-relevant characters. This to say, not having a confidant is actually more suspicious for those who haven't played the game because of how unnaturally they fit in to the MC's life. This was a small point you made in the Black Sheep chapter which is why I said it was an admittedly a minor gripe, even more so because of the variable interpretation of the player.
And when it comes to the consequences of the concert, you do state that him deducing who they were there takes away from his characterization as a smart detective, and while that point doesn't stand anymore due to it's false context, the blatant misdirection of the MC and his gang shows that he has already found out about their identity as "investigators" and is taking steps to both befriend and mislead them way before Dojima is said to have to found out.
It was only minor things that irked me, but I do appreciate the reply and I do find this video to hold a lot of truth and merit.
@@Mangakamen This is true, though I feel the case Mitsuo Kubo is a much better example of this seeing as the other 3 aren't involved in the Main Plot unless and until they get murdered themselves. At most they act as gag characters and or low potential culprits unlike Adachi who is directly involved in the thick of the main plot from his introduction till defeat and Kubo who while not introduced as incredibly relevant, serves as kinda obvious, but serviceable red herring seeing as his design, portrayal, and screen time don't make his lack of a social link too bizarre.
Love that some people still to this day, can't understand Naoto only dressed up like a boy, because Japanese culture would not be able to wrap their heads around the fact a girl wanted to do a profession that is normally a very male dominated and dangerous career path, not because she wanted to dress up like a boy.
Hopefully egoraptor steers away from this game.
Yha and she starts acting more like a girl later. With this game just announced on switch (today) there already worries because a translator that has bad reputation of changing things and she deletes any tweets that try to tell her not to change persona 4 golden on new ports. There also few people telling her to get rid of the transphobia in P4 Golden (there is none).
I like Mire but I understand why people don't like her. I also like the Adache's link it makes the fact that he is the villain more impactful to me.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that actively dislikes shadow world
I moded the pc port so I get the original op back for the game
concept wise it's not a bad idea... but the way it's handled, to which character it's attached to and the two bosses at the end... yeah it was trash. Like I never used a breaker item or ability in the game, cause it seemed pointless. Oh this enemy is immune to this type of attack? Well then I don't use this attack on them... and then suddenly you have two bosses where you are forced to used breakers. It was pure luck I had enough break items on me for this.
I think Adachi's social link is a mostly positive addition, while it does foreshadow his identity a bit too much, I could say the same thing about Akechi's social link-at least in vanilla P5-And Adachi's Arcana changing from Jester to Hunger helps give some pretty cool symbolism to him dropping the good-guy detective act even if he does try to spoon-feed that info to you in the conversation directly beforehand.
I would also like to note that despite me playing Golden before the original, this video is the first time I've ever considered even the possibility of Adachi knowing about the concert, I had just assumed he knew of the investigation team from Dojima like you said, maybe I missed some line of dialogue or something but the concert didn't ruin my perception of his character.
29:37 Holy shit! When did Sans decide to wear white?! And become a human woman?!
big fan of pesona 4 vanilla, so I always wanted to play golden... pretty much just because of the feather man suits... I'm serious. Even in P5, feather man all the way! And while I enjoyed a lot of the additions, two things I can't stand:
1) The new intro... it sucks
2) Marie, who I swear was named on purpose this way to make even more clear of what a freakin marie sue she is. Also are there really people like the "It's not like I like you" kind of character? Why? All and all she was sooooo annoying and I espcially hated it when the game tried to force a romance on me. Not Marie, I do not want your creepy ass chocolate.
Oh and you have no memory of who you really are? Sorry but we ALREADY GOT SUCH A CHARACTER! HIS NAME IS TEDDY AND HE DOES IT SO MUCH BETTER AND NOT GOES THE "I'M ACTUAL THE MOST POWERFULL BEING OF ALL" KINDA BS!
And in the last moment when the final boss got me and I hear the voices of all my friends... how FUCKIN dare you to come right after Nanako? Nanako should be the last. She is way more important and she keeped it short and emotional and did start an annoying long speech.
And her boss and mini boss before... yeah not really fun if you never ever made use of breakers in the game cause it seemed absoutly pointless. Oh a enemy is immune to something? Well then I just don't attack it with that. Oh these Bosses are basicly immune to everything? Well fuck you then
Gosh I hate this bitch sooo freakin much, if I ever play this game again, I will not even bother with her.
Glad p5 royal did their extra content way better, to the point where it was downright the best part. Even though it was kinda obvious of the psyichatrist turning into a spiderman villain :P
Hah. Marie sue.
Tbf fair with Marie's boss fights, her dungeon gives you items for the sole purpose of using them against her, so the break moves aren't needed so you can have an actually useful move like Matarukaja or Samerecarm or something.
I don’t mind the addition of Okina city because while it does make you feel less trapped, the think is I see it like in Higurashi, where the nearby city isn’t even that big. It’s like my hometown of Inwood, WV and then going to Martinsburg.
Ayyyy another West Virginian, I can relate to you bro, I live in Charles Town. Not much here.
@@thegoodeboy2016 Small world. My best friend lived in Charles Town for years.
@@thegoodeboy2016 Hell, even Winchester is bigger than Martinsburg and even they don't really have anything.
Can you stop jumping into my brain and taking the major points and evidence I use for my opinions on games? Because holy fuck, the majority of what you touched upon in regards to P4, P4G, P5, and P5R in this video are conclusions I've come to. XD
Joking aside, I appreciate the video and the points you touched upon. I do love these games despite the flaws they have, but I'm in agreement that P4 Golden is a mixed bag. As far as the original music for Golden, I feel like it was done more as a nod to returning players from P4 vanilla, offering a "return to glory days/revisiting old friends" sort of vibe that also resonates well with a slice of life approach that would appeal to those who came in from the anime.
The problem was in the execution of that, how it contradicts the core aspects of the original, and how the extra content doesn't vibe with the core experience. What's more, games like Persona Q did a better job in executing the need for additional time between the Investigation Team, fleshing them out more and having those moments of levity. Marie didn't do any service to the story like Maruki and Kasumi did for P5's story in Royal, creating contrivances that made the story worse. It's why I only have P4G on Steam for the sake of gameplay, but I retain my original PS2 copy of Persona 4: the story's experience in vanilla is just better, and Golden seems to operate better when you're already familiar with the story in the first place (in theory).
Once again, thanks for the vid.
AND I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE ON FF9.
Agree on certain things, some not. I agree most of the slice of life additions were unnecessary at best (though a couple do genuinely make me ball out laughing) and definitely see how some additions clash with the tone while the gameplay is a vast and refreshing improvement and yes, Marie is poorly implemented at best.
Aside from my aforementioned inconsistency issue with your argument, I do not agree with Adachi's Social Link detracting from the mystery or his character. On the contrary, I think it does wonders for it, giving him nuance and depth without ever really falling into the trappings of redeeming him. Its the equivalent of what Akechi's new Confidant did for him in P5R, albeit OG Akechi had more issues going into it that needed fixing.
The overall tone shift is not as much an issue as well despite me agreeing there can be some whiplash. I am a sucker for character dynamic growth even in the face of pacing issues, however, so it does not bother me even if when removing bias I do see the problem with it. But again, I think its just slightly exaggerated (for lack of a better term) from your perspective since the original also implemented this. It just got egregious in Golden.
This why I enjoyed SMT more. I like anime as much as anyone else but the anime tropes don't mesh well with the atmosphere or context. Both 4 and 5 were jarring for me. Some deadly serious thing is happening, then "Beach episode".
Also glad FFIX got it's props for being fantastic.
Persona 4 Golden: Proving that screaming harmonicas do exist and can potentially rupture your eardrum.
"Small town setting?" I wonder if Stephen King must be fan of Persona 4.
I like the vaporwave version of shadow world. I need the full version.
2:17 A powerful statement. With barely any access to internet. This is how I found most golden gems talked about today. Just going in and picking a random rpg game cause your parents was rushing you. Lol.
I respect your opinion, however you did make a few bad faith arguements here- like the stuff with the club, that you claimed was in inaba, that was in fact in the persona 3 location, and the fact that you said okina was a small town, despite it being described as a city, hell, yosuke even comments on how it reminds him of his home town
@@Mangakamen I can respect it- hope you have a nice day. Honestly, everything's gotten pretty depressing lately
While I understand your opinion, I will respectfully disagree.
@@Mangakamen Opinions! Aren't they a lovely thing? :D
Regardless, good content as per the usual!
Probably posted somewhere else at this point, but Yukiko's never felt like it flew into its own face for me.
She starts off honestly believing she wants someone to save her from her situation, people around her just kind of see her as a challenge, or something to interact with, referencing the Amagi Challenge.
I personally don't feel like the Shadows reflect all of the persons true feelings, definitely pushing them to inevitably reject them- Yosuke might not have liked Inaba, but I honestly doubt he hated it to the extent his Shadow was showing, same for Chie and how she feels about Yukiko, but continuing on about Yukiko herself, She's shaky when she even makes the choice to not inherit the inn during the beginnings of her Social Link. She says it herself, she ''Thinks'' those were her true feelings, but a lot of the additional things she decide to do come back to things she had learned from the staff of the Inn.
She feels bad about leaving, but I leave that up to her struggling for her own independence, I think it's her 5th or 6th one, but she brings up that without doing/learning the cooking on her own, it doesn't mean anything, and that the cooks always try to help her before taking over themselves, her social link starts with her believing she wants to break free from everything holding her back, but as it goes on and she has time to talk to someone with it, she starts showing a genuine pride and care for the Inn and it's workers.
She goes from resenting the fact that they, at surface level they won't let her do anything herself, to bringing up the fact the workers themselves sacrifice their breaks to help her learn more.
The Reporters that come around basically personify her own doubts and parts of her insecurity about the situation, instead of the pride she was starting to develop, they bring up that it running for generations just means it's run down and shoddy, she's content with just taking what they say until they keep driving in at her, instead of standing there and letting someone tell her what they're going to do and letting them goad her into it, she snaps back- And it's a pretty nice moment for her character too, makes me wish a bit harder that Social Links were actually involved with the story to a degree and that the growth was consistent.
She says it pretty clearly in her 9th, started watching them while I was typing this out- She just didn't like the fact she was being railroaded into doing it and just wanted a way out, but after everything with Chad Ziodynecock/Charlie Tunoku/Souji Seta/Yu Narukami, she wants to genuinely protect the Inns traditions and people. It's nothing super groundbreaking or earth shattering, but that's my favorite thing about P4 in general, for the most part it's something I could see happening- A kid doesn't want to stick with the family traditions and wants out, and potentially might be worried about becoming the black sheep because of it, only to start to appreciate what they do have after some time to reflect with another person. It's normal, kinda generic, but a believable scenario that allows me to feel invested in the characters Social Link/Confidant.
Yukiko might not be my favorite member of the Investigation Team, but she's definitely a part of it, and Inaba.
P4 is a special kind of game for me, I relate hard-core to the small-town part you brought up, I didn't even live in the town until I was in late middle school, so when I grabbed P4 from a Gamestop, it felt like my teen-years OoT, but more relatable as far as the setting went.
@@Mangakamen Just woke up, and appreciate the reply- Not at all!
Doesn't mean you have to like it a bit; I personally think it just fits a bit more with the whole bird imagery thing for her, going from wanting out of the nest to wanting to protect it.
I can't say I relate to the desire to find my own particular path through life without assistance, but that's mostly because I grew up away from a solid chunk of my family for better or worse, I always kinda got the feeling that it was more leaning towards letting people know it was okay if they weren't different from their family and that if they did choose to be with, or like their family it was fine too in the end.
I really enjoy being able to shoot the shit about differences in interpretations in characters because it allows me to understand where other people are coming from; I gotta say- I never really thought about Yukiko as being potentially the most "Normal" out of the I.T, between how she appears somewhat elegant from a distance and kind of ends up a wheezing wreck as far as her interactions with close friends go I definitely let that part of her fly way over radar; Definitely gonna miss it when you stop replying to comments after that milestone though.
If you don't mind, are there any other S.L's that definitely pop out as potentially shooting themselves or the message in the foot?
Pre-work addition; I guess an in-game version would be that Adachi definitely views the characters grouping up despite knowing the particularly most negative parts about each other as pretty gross, the whole licking each others wounds part; Playing through the game I only saw it as a positive, but Adachi viewing the I.T as what's basically a pity party of people essentially telling each other ''No matter how you might really feel, that's fine.'' is definitely something I've seen in both online and offline communities; I can't say I agree with him since, for the most part they help each other become better people, but at this point I'm kind of used to looking at a games central message and being happy if it at least fits the context of the games own world, and usually that ends up discrediting anything an antagonist or villain says to make it work even if it could make sense- If that makes sense?
I feel like I should make a compliment about the video...
But I'm still reeling from the surreal feeling of Kamen having that Digimon World 2 OST thrown in so casually. And the fact I was playing DW2 while watching this...
I'm just gonna say one thing, i love persona 4 (not golden), is not perfect but i love it, also Chie Satonaka best girl.
And Ameno best boss
as someone who played p5r as their first persona game, the p4g dungeons were extremely underwhelming
I love the original persona 4 cause I think it's the perfect balance of having troupes and elements that appeal to the mainstream audience, while still maintaining the darker and grounded elements from the originals that appeals to the more hardcore SMT fans
30:52 Nah, I got into Persona through the PC port of Golden last year. Marie bothers me to no end lol. The slam poetry, the actual voiced “ihateyousomuchyoustupidjerk” every few times you enter the Velvet Room, the very VERY asymmetrical and overly detailed design, finding out from friends who were Persona fans that she was added in Golden and was required to have her SL maxed out to get the true ending (since I didn’t know the differences between versions/went in blind). It annoyed the hell out of me and I could only really tolerate her when she was not all awkward and shit at the end of the game.
I thought this was a common complaint? Yes, she is very annoying and most of that comes from how much she stands out as added content. She is not organically integrated into the story and feels overbearing in an unnatural way. P5R does also have this issue, particularly with Kasumi but also Maruki despite how much I love his arc. It is not nearly as bad as P4G, but I have to set aside my bias for the third semester and admit it is still an issue.
MANDATORY SOCIAL LINK?
WHAT THE FUCK?
THAT'S SHITTY
@@PathBeyondTheDark Personally I felt Maruki was incorporated in the main story well despite not having a connection to Yaldabaoth, as he was more or less meant to show what would happen if a flawed yet well-meaning person gained access to Yaldabaoth’s abilities. It was a pretty great and unique twist of the previous Persona games of a god-like figure controlling society, instead of just completely rehashing the same thing they did with Yaldabaoth like in P5S.
Kasumi you could make a case for, but I also feel that they incorporated her the best they could (not having her account join the thieves until the third semester) without having her feel forced into the main plot like with Marie.
2 videos in a technical week dang that's fast
Spitting facts in this one
OwO talking about one of my favorite games
I share half your complaints while disagreeing with half of them
That's fine. Opinions are opinions.
I didn't own a Vita or have a computer that supports Golden but I am glad that I am not the only one who doesn't like the premise of this game, including Marie. People complain that Sumire is a Mary Sue but fail to look at Marie, who in all purposes IS one. The original game is truly a lot better.
Edit: I love the option of Joker being able to make fun of Marie in PQ2 because it's so satisfying.
I’m glad I’ve only got the ps2 version, speaking of which I’m struggling with kunino sagiri got any tips
9:28
It’s the same with most anime games that get put into anime/TV shows.
Yu Yu Hakusho live action and Even Scarlet Nexus the Animation.
Bruh when I heard that second opening I thought it was troll post
Hell yeah! Name dropping FF9 near the end!
12:29 XD
Chihiro isn't trans
Naoto isn't trans
Kokichi isn't a gay grape boy
Tenko is bisexual
V3's ending is good
Unpopular opinion, all the openings from the enhanced versions sucks compared to the original, specially the FES one
FES' opening was so fucking trash, why they made it a shitty AMV is beyond me.
P3P's opening tho...that shit was a headbopper
At least the music was good lmao
28:00 MarII or MariEH
In the JP dub I mean
It just reminds me of P1 PSone who’s VERY DIFFERENT... Mary