Yeah, Gatekeeping is a user solution to game design. The game needs fundamental changes to make players feel like they can get things done reasonably without gatekeeping (as hard).
@gr8b8m85 no game has ever solved gatekeeping for raids. It apart of mmo gaming you can't solve that what you can do is take steps so less people are gatekept.
@@TyroneBigguns-mk3og Gatekeeping is especially brutal in Lost Ark because people will gatekeep on the littlest things that take a long time to achieve, and if you don't meet the standard for the latest raid there are no viable alternatives to progress. A game like this cannot survive without a casual playerbase and those casuals will quit when faced with this. Ignite servers really are just a crutch, they do nothing to address the main issues here. Before Ignite servers the player base fell off a cliff (it will again) and I noticed that even streamers/youtubers were getting frustrated with the gatekeeping.
@gr8b8m85 its not gatekeeping that killing the game it's the core mechanics of the game that are predatory and made to make people want to spend money. They need to fix honing, get rid of cards and also include the gold sink cmvertical systems like elixirs just let people choose what they get now transcendance should be a flat rate like 10k per item. People that play the game shouldn't never have to struggle to get to the latest content. Make honing to 1680 easy and back load the cost to anything beyond 1680. Whales will still whales, normies will be able to prog hm with everyone, less gatekeeping because no cards and everyone is progging together at the start.make event gems be able to be combined and coverted to t4. Max to lvl 9
I think the ignite servers are perfectly suited for players who quit previously and gives them a nice opportunity to work their way back into the game. I quit the game since Akkan basically, and returning back got me quite hooked on the game again for a couple of weeks. Then reality started to set in and I started interacting with the extremely shitty systems that are elixirs and trancendence (how the FUCK did people stomach those pre-nerfs?????) coupled with a bit of raid stress and then I decided I've kinda had enough. The game is in a good spot nowadays especially if you don't let it get into your head and just accept that you will be slowly grinding for a few months before you even get to use your ark passive points if you just came fresh off the ignite server, but I kinda realized I don't really have what it takes anymore.
Yeah, that's why I'm disappointed that T4 wasn't a hard reset, letting people just skip through all the painpoints of T3 and really just reset the game and difficulty curve for new players to learn the game with Tier 4. Overall how to handle new players is one of the floating topics in my mind to yap about one day. As it's just rough in a very established game and gamers wanting to rush to the end of things, how should this be handled. Especially in a game like LOA where new players are feared as jailers.
Game is not in a good spot there was no change made to fix the games core issues. They made chaos dungeons 1 but it's takes nearly double the time. They are adding more vertical to the already existing vertical did you think a couple of months? That will be barely opening the ark passive for most people. Not to mention farming 100 relic books how long do you think that takes. What about all the new cards. They are absolutely braindead over at sg right now. They need to see a shrink for mental evaluations.
Yeah, I think solo mode should be up to current for those who just have raid anxiety or just want to raid on their own time. Make it even more bound gold if they're concerned about farming gold from bad actors.
Ignite good for vets bad for new players. Should have launched 2 to 4 weeks before t4 not at the same time as t4. Should have been able to do echidna but thaemine and echidna should have been nerfed significantly. For the vets the nerf wouldn't matter for new and returning it would make all the diff. yet another thing that could have been great ruined by poor timing and poor execution.
I feel like it's not for new players. It's only for few weeks and throws instantly into end game. Western players don't have that grind mentality like Koreans. We would like to be able to play the story and learn all of it with normal pacing, not get pushed to final chapters with all the system at ones + very toxic and gatekeeping community. Some ppl said that after Ignite i could make a regular character but at this point i would have a TON of spoilers from the end game progression on the "new" servers. It feels more like an easy way for some extra materials for vets then a tutorial for mokokos.
I do think Lost Ark's design right now is a result of that mindset. I mean we went into the game seeing story as a 8 hour tutorial. I think in the West too though, a lot of people do want to be at the endgame. But considering yeah, the steam chart numbers, I feel like this was just a free character for existing players. Which I mean if this is how ignite is and keeps coming back, that's good for what new players join up now on Ignite at least, since then they can just hold off on adding to their roster. But I do think that for those who do want to enjoy story, the story express type of "event" should just be an always active thing for at least the first couple characters on an account with maybe a little revamp/addition to make this game always accessible for new players instead of a couple small timeframes a year.
Ignite is great, huge step up from last year’s jumpstart. I do agree it’s not perfect: DD30 is asking for insta declines, they could’ve let you pick your elixir set without having to reroll the two pieces, they should’ve just handed out maxed out trans, etc. That said: Not perfect does not equal bad for new players, I strongly disagree with this sentiment (not saying you said that, but I’m just saying); new Ignite players will be in a much better position than I was last year after jumpstart. I still had like 4-6 months of horizontals to do plus still had to prog Clown through Akkan alongside that on top of only being active during degen hours for NAE. Again it’s not perfect and I do think there’s some objective areas for improvement (still a long hard road so they should think carefully lol) but it’s a pretty solid jumping off point if someone seriously wants to take to take the plunge.
As someone who started on JS hard disagree. JS actually had new and returning players in addition to vets alt rosters. Since JS ended I've played with the people from JS and the few vets I met there ever since. JS not being given as much for free as current ignite is obviously way worse and farming los30 was quite painful but this was compensated for by the fact that there was a community on JS. Ignite on the other hand at least in EUC makes it impossible to make contact with new players or people in general. Everyone is doing solo raids and groups don't fill for any content, nobody plays support and virtually every lobby is vet reclear (like 95% of the lobbies as opposed to maybe 40% on JS). And the move on to legacy servers will have the same exact problems as with JS. New players will still pull up without LOS30, no well geared alts, no roster level, no titles (cant even play current endgame content and hellmode is closed aswell for whatever reason) -> gatekept just as hard as JS players did but this time with the added benefit of not having had the opportunity to build their own groups/communities on the server.
@@shgalagalaa Can’t speak to EUC obviously but that’s not what’s happening on where I’m at; town chat is full of mokokos asking questions and vets have been helping them, super wholesome to see. There’s also plenty of learner lobbies last I saw, especially for Theamine since it’s probably the most relevant but there were learning lobbies for as far back as Kayangel. Does suck if that’s happening in EUC but idk how that’s because Ignite is worse or horrible for new players as opposed to JS as a concept. I’m sure there were people on last JS who struggled getting into communities in the game itself, I’m one of them. Fostering in game communities is a core game issue I feel, the JS community I was in I found on Discord for example.
Overall these servers are 100% better than nothing. Ignite is def better than JS in terms of new player progression was, and I think it's a good sign that if they continue to go this route that they will further focus on problem areas.( Like I shit on deep dive, but at least you end up with a full set) Though as far as new player stuff, yeah when I looked at party finder last you could kind of see that a lot of people were probably doing solo raids for sure. Which was always a concern with solo raids from a lot of people, that it further splits up the community. But at the same time I think that is a great environment for people to learn. I will say though yeah, with like afking on Ingite East for like an hour. I saw the same person asking for a Theamine support. I think with all these free taps we got, everyone was just like, hey I'm just going to get a 100 quality DPS weapon or bust. And that lead to even less supports.
Love the marvel music. I’ve played la for two years and quit to come back to ignite. I have a current great guild that gets me into everything but some times I have to pug. I played super casual only missing about 3 skill points and still no los30. So it felt more about my guild carrying me than me ACTUALLY playing and just focusing on wipe mechs. That’s what ultimately led me to quit because I was being gatekept(understandable) but if I wasn’t getting gatekept it just felt like a guild bus where my predator slayer would just lose stacks and not having fun. That was my experience but I love/hate lost ark. There’s a lot of things I love about it but there are things I hate about it that I just can’t recommend it to my friends even with ignite servers. Because even if I transfer a hunger reaper back to the legacy server, wouldn’t I be repeating the same thing that made me quit? And I got no 1620 mains except for ignite so all the breaker and slayers I made, they tell me to just focus on ignite. What about the skins I paid for and now I got to ditch them. Thanks for reading! I am coming back for ignite and just taking it slow
Yeah, another response made a pretty great point which is that Ignite is really good for current players. For new players its still just subpar because it's simply just not enough to get them on their feet. These are good characters to add to an established roster, but to start fresh it's just not great. Having a guild and friends def carries the game a lot, which is why I think there is actually a pretty big disconnect from current players when talking about new players and their experience. Since they exist in a completely different environment. But yeah, even as an established player I've decided to take T4 slow myself.
right now my Main is time-gated by honing shards and my 1620 alts are time-jailed by msqs, kenuats fortress, and of course elixers and transcendence. feel like I'm getting my time wasted to hide a lack of content, tier 4 needs more time in the oven
I really wanna share my experience with this a bit You talked about how the ignite servers aren't really bringing in new players and I'm gonna be real, I haven't heard a single word about this game ever since I quit one month into release. The reason I'm here now is because I have a friend who still plays and we were talking about the game while raiding in FFXIV. I do believe a big reason ignite servers aren't bringing in new players is because unless you actively consume Lost Ark content or play the game yourself, this game might as well not exist. Also to add to the conversation of the new player experience... well my experience back on release was awful. Remember a long time ago when I believe Saintone made two videos on Brelshaza? Got lots of attention? Yeah, that's what I wanted to do, that's the reason I had any interest in the game at all. Then the game release, I put in 300 hours into it and I was barely in T3, and I wasn't going to be anywhere near close to doing the first raid when would have dropped. Not only that, I was doing all that arbitrary busywork every single day on three characters, believing in the promise that the game respected my time (something said by yet another content creator). Doing the daily minibosses(I forgot what they're called) was kinda fun, yeah, but as a progression thing, not my entire combat experience. Chaos dungeons are so ass and we had to do it twice on every character back then, and the story of the MSQ was awful. I don't even know if the game has good lore because the storytelling was so painful to sit through. Talking to that friend I was told about his experience throughout these 2(?) years, the good and the bad, what has changed and what is pretty much the same. He told me about the ignite servers and what they give you, what they don't give you and where that leaves you. He told me about the current state of dailies and realistic expectations of what I'll get and what I'm allowed to play depending on how much time I spend. I'm willing to give the game a try again because I really genuinely want to do the raids, I watched more of them and they look so fun This game genuinely has to stop gatekeeping people out of the content. It's one thing for content to be really hard and most players can't clear until they improve and get better, I think that's totally valid, but it's absolutely insane that they release content you cannot ever engage with until you clock in to work for half a year
I think a lot of people know of Lost Ark and have heard of it, especially considering how we had over a million concurrent players near launch. But a lot of people I think ran into the walls and deterrents you mentioned. The amount of grinding you have to do to just experience the content is pretty massive and we're at a point in gaming where players have a lot of options and other things they can do with their time. So to just commit to putting time in every day to do your dailies on multiple characters is a rough task for your average person. The truth is the things that made you run for the hills are a core part of Lost Ark's game design. It is extremely gated like this to do the content and I haven't even gone on to talk about the Gatekeeping and actually doing the content. I think that Solo mode needs to go up to current or this game needs to rethink or add a difficulty that is similar to WoW's Looking For Raid where you mostly need warm bodies and a basic understanding. This game is a casual killer and it shows, since I don't think Ignite brought back many players or brought in new ones. I think coming back to the game and giving it a shot, I think you should just focus on playing with your friend and hopefully they have an alt they can play with you while you just take the game at your own pace and try to avoid over-alting. Which is really one of the biggest mistakes most of the West has made ( myself included.) Lastly when it comes to content creators and such, I think it's really a rough situation. Streamers especially, generally enjoy doing those mindless task you and many others dislike. This is often because doing it is not your job like it is theirs. It's laid back content for them to talk to the chat, but for the average player its probably them trying to watch youtube or a movie and just getting their Lost Ark homework done when they can. And I think this is factor to why you see a lot of streamer hate on reddit. People streamer logic and viewpoints don't lineup with their own. Like if I was a streamer myself, hell yeah I would be more fine with doing more dailies. Grinding two jobs at once. But I'm not, and to respect my own time, I've put my own limits on how much I can commit to a game. Edit : So I should clarify I am not faulting streamers for any of this by any means. I think a major issue is that your average player gets caught up in where the hardcores and streamers are at that they feel its normalized to be x far and spend y time playing etc. People tend to not be realistic with their own time allocation due to their perception on how someone should play the game.
Oh yeah for sure people know the game exists, I meant more like I haven't heard of the game in a really long time, like news have very little reach outside of its audience When you say casual, what do you mean? Time invested or difficulty of content? I ask because I've had plenty of conversations where ppl just don't agree on what that means. In my case I personally like doing hard content and really learning the ins and outs of the systems, but then leave when I'm done. I've played FFXIV for years and I engage with the hardest content as soon as it drops and clear it. I also play fighting games and get really deep into those. The thing with both of these is that there aren't really any barriers stopping me from entering the content I want(item level in ffxiv is trivial, fighting game lobbies and ranked are there from the start) and when I reach a point where I'm satisfied I can stop for as long as I want. Next time I'm back I can continue to play the fun part of the game I'll do what you suggested and play one or two characters max, mostly with that friend, but if that means I'm forever locked out of current endgame then I'll end up quitting again
@@MallowJam I always forget this doesn't show replies as new comments if I've already responded. When I say casual in this context, I actually mean in both regards. As this is a game that is very greedy in your time, and players feel compelled to minmax by making their 6 man roster. But many will overhone a good spot to park an alt because either they think that the gold gain from newer raids will break even and it's a good idea ( it usually isn't ), or they just genuinely enjoy multiple characters. And in either regard people end up with more "mains" at the front lines of endgame or desire more than they can afford. Additionally the content is also a casual killer in terms of difficulty, as raids have many different points of failure due to patterns and mechanics that a single person messing up can wipe the attempt and waste the entire poll. In a game where this is content people mostly pug, in fear of being caught in a multi hour run of a gate that if one tapped would take 10-20 minutes because one person may be less experienced and can't do the mechanics 10/10 times, players have resorted to very aggressive gatekeeping to mitigate this. Not many people pug content on item level or expect a full party of on item level, and people are pretty much expected to be overhoned in party finder at least. A new player coming from Ignite will be missing things to get into pug parties. A good cardset, high roster level, probably near item leveling, and missing titles. They might not be high enough level to have a lot of skill points, and they are assumed to be lacking runes. Given a really shitty 40 set elixir and hopefully they got full transcendence unlocked from Theamine in Ingite otherwise goodluck getting it in legacy. Without all of these factors, a new player has the potential to spend hours in party finder without getting accepted. Which is why discords are often encouraged to find learning parties ( Lost Ark LFG, you can find it on Lostark.nexus ). All this combined makes Lost Ark a very hard game to get into because the amount of dedication to get to the endgame. But most players find the endgame, the combat the raids so enjoyable, so worth it that they cannot look any other game the same or accept them as enough. The combat is just second to none and it carries the tedious painpoints of the game so much. For me having friends who played was key, as with my main static falling apart around Enchilada really demotivated to be as hardcore with the game. I have other friends who play, but it's rough to lose the static I've spend 2+ years with with some of my better friends being the ones who quit the game and handed me their gear. And the reason the majority quit is because they cannot handle keeping up with this game and maintaining their life outside of it well as F2P. This is a big factor to why I am passionate about the state of the game and topics like this.
so ignited servers are good and all only complaint. Just give every new player on ignited LOS 30. People are making it a minimum now. Change honing up to t4 to silver. Give everyone level 9 gems. Remove old guardians. Allow ignited servers character to be transfered every 4 months. Change thaemine g1 boss xp on ignited to make it easier to clear without sp as their is a sp shortage.
We're getting new card sets so its a chance LOS is even less important moving forward? So more reason to make LOS more accessible imo. And I never talked about gems in the video, but yeah since events can't even be converted I don't think there is much harm in full 9ing the event character.
there aren't that many new players i have seen only a couple of mokokos also the the party finder is still heavily gatekept even in the ignite servers there r no learning lobby so i doubt there r many new players the game needs to change its gatekeeping or it will die eventually
I think there are probably a good amount of them doing solo raids. New players are less likely to bumrush to Theamine. But yeah I do fear that we just don't get enough.
@@Jukwol which is not a good thing they'll all be tier 4 by the end of it there's a gold nerf on the solo raid also they won't be able to do ageir and according to guides that means no ark passive for them as they won't have ancient gear
Yeah, I was hoping Tier 4 would reduce the amount of systems more than it did. A lot of old stuff just needs to be baked in by now as they keep on introducing new stuff.
You can put as much chocolate syrup on a turd, but it still gonna taste like shit. The core of the game is just predatory, unjust, unfair, toxic community, rmt, bots, rushed content and much more.
Yeah, that's why I'm an advocate of core changes to the game. It has some great basework and design to it, but a lot of things that deter people from playing.
there is an easy answer. just stop catering to exclusively hardcore people. let people do raids more than once a character and just prevent them from getting rewards for extra runs. i'd happily run learning groups if they let me.
Yeah, a lot of choices are made to keep the hardcore engaged. It comes at the determent to new players and ultimately companies are scared to make the changes in just fear of losing them. I think the game is doing fine enough in other regions that they didn't feel like they needed to pull that trigger, as I'm pretty sure KR at least isn't like the West with this constant bleed out of players.
@@Jukwol Yeah, I wonder how much of that is because of the general gaming culture there and how much of it is because of the pace of development KR got compared to our sped-up version.
@@tenshifx yeah, the game would actually be fun and social. i'm sure bussing would happen, but there's literally nothing else to do in the game lol. it's boring AF.
They haven't solved the core problems with raids and gatekeeping and until they do, none of this matters. It's a slow bleed to EoS.
Yeah, Gatekeeping is a user solution to game design. The game needs fundamental changes to make players feel like they can get things done reasonably without gatekeeping (as hard).
@gr8b8m85 no game has ever solved gatekeeping for raids. It apart of mmo gaming you can't solve that what you can do is take steps so less people are gatekept.
@@TyroneBigguns-mk3og Gatekeeping is especially brutal in Lost Ark because people will gatekeep on the littlest things that take a long time to achieve, and if you don't meet the standard for the latest raid there are no viable alternatives to progress. A game like this cannot survive without a casual playerbase and those casuals will quit when faced with this. Ignite servers really are just a crutch, they do nothing to address the main issues here. Before Ignite servers the player base fell off a cliff (it will again) and I noticed that even streamers/youtubers were getting frustrated with the gatekeeping.
@gr8b8m85 its not gatekeeping that killing the game it's the core mechanics of the game that are predatory and made to make people want to spend money. They need to fix honing, get rid of cards and also include the gold sink cmvertical systems like elixirs just let people choose what they get now transcendance should be a flat rate like 10k per item. People that play the game shouldn't never have to struggle to get to the latest content. Make honing to 1680 easy and back load the cost to anything beyond 1680. Whales will still whales, normies will be able to prog hm with everyone, less gatekeeping because no cards and everyone is progging together at the start.make event gems be able to be combined and coverted to t4. Max to lvl 9
I think the ignite servers are perfectly suited for players who quit previously and gives them a nice opportunity to work their way back into the game.
I quit the game since Akkan basically, and returning back got me quite hooked on the game again for a couple of weeks. Then reality started to set in and I started interacting with the extremely shitty systems that are elixirs and trancendence (how the FUCK did people stomach those pre-nerfs?????) coupled with a bit of raid stress and then I decided I've kinda had enough.
The game is in a good spot nowadays especially if you don't let it get into your head and just accept that you will be slowly grinding for a few months before you even get to use your ark passive points if you just came fresh off the ignite server, but I kinda realized I don't really have what it takes anymore.
Yeah, that's why I'm disappointed that T4 wasn't a hard reset, letting people just skip through all the painpoints of T3 and really just reset the game and difficulty curve for new players to learn the game with Tier 4. Overall how to handle new players is one of the floating topics in my mind to yap about one day. As it's just rough in a very established game and gamers wanting to rush to the end of things, how should this be handled. Especially in a game like LOA where new players are feared as jailers.
Game is not in a good spot there was no change made to fix the games core issues. They made chaos dungeons 1 but it's takes nearly double the time. They are adding more vertical to the already existing vertical did you think a couple of months? That will be barely opening the ark passive for most people. Not to mention farming 100 relic books how long do you think that takes. What about all the new cards. They are absolutely braindead over at sg right now. They need to see a shrink for mental evaluations.
@@TyroneBigguns-mk3og True brother
Just want up-to current solo mode contents
Yeah, I think solo mode should be up to current for those who just have raid anxiety or just want to raid on their own time. Make it even more bound gold if they're concerned about farming gold from bad actors.
doomers doom
Yeah, you don't know what dooming actually is. You can sift through reddit for that.
Ignite good for vets bad for new players.
Should have launched 2 to 4 weeks before t4 not at the same time as t4.
Should have been able to do echidna but thaemine and echidna should have been nerfed significantly. For the vets the nerf wouldn't matter for new and returning it would make all the diff.
yet another thing that could have been great ruined by poor timing and poor execution.
yeah, day 1, vets were instantly gatekeeping lmao
It's wild that ignite came with t4 launch ngl. Like the MSQ being broken at launch almost seems intentional to make people play ignite lol
@@Jukwol 100% was intentionally.
I feel like it's not for new players. It's only for few weeks and throws instantly into end game. Western players don't have that grind mentality like Koreans. We would like to be able to play the story and learn all of it with normal pacing, not get pushed to final chapters with all the system at ones + very toxic and gatekeeping community. Some ppl said that after Ignite i could make a regular character but at this point i would have a TON of spoilers from the end game progression on the "new" servers. It feels more like an easy way for some extra materials for vets then a tutorial for mokokos.
I do think Lost Ark's design right now is a result of that mindset. I mean we went into the game seeing story as a 8 hour tutorial. I think in the West too though, a lot of people do want to be at the endgame. But considering yeah, the steam chart numbers, I feel like this was just a free character for existing players. Which I mean if this is how ignite is and keeps coming back, that's good for what new players join up now on Ignite at least, since then they can just hold off on adding to their roster.
But I do think that for those who do want to enjoy story, the story express type of "event" should just be an always active thing for at least the first couple characters on an account with maybe a little revamp/addition to make this game always accessible for new players instead of a couple small timeframes a year.
Ignite is great, huge step up from last year’s jumpstart. I do agree it’s not perfect: DD30 is asking for insta declines, they could’ve let you pick your elixir set without having to reroll the two pieces, they should’ve just handed out maxed out trans, etc.
That said: Not perfect does not equal bad for new players, I strongly disagree with this sentiment (not saying you said that, but I’m just saying); new Ignite players will be in a much better position than I was last year after jumpstart. I still had like 4-6 months of horizontals to do plus still had to prog Clown through Akkan alongside that on top of only being active during degen hours for NAE.
Again it’s not perfect and I do think there’s some objective areas for improvement (still a long hard road so they should think carefully lol) but it’s a pretty solid jumping off point if someone seriously wants to take to take the plunge.
As someone who started on JS hard disagree. JS actually had new and returning players in addition to vets alt rosters. Since JS ended I've played with the people from JS and the few vets I met there ever since. JS not being given as much for free as current ignite is obviously way worse and farming los30 was quite painful but this was compensated for by the fact that there was a community on JS. Ignite on the other hand at least in EUC makes it impossible to make contact with new players or people in general. Everyone is doing solo raids and groups don't fill for any content, nobody plays support and virtually every lobby is vet reclear (like 95% of the lobbies as opposed to maybe 40% on JS). And the move on to legacy servers will have the same exact problems as with JS. New players will still pull up without LOS30, no well geared alts, no roster level, no titles (cant even play current endgame content and hellmode is closed aswell for whatever reason) -> gatekept just as hard as JS players did but this time with the added benefit of not having had the opportunity to build their own groups/communities on the server.
@@shgalagalaa Can’t speak to EUC obviously but that’s not what’s happening on where I’m at; town chat is full of mokokos asking questions and vets have been helping them, super wholesome to see. There’s also plenty of learner lobbies last I saw, especially for Theamine since it’s probably the most relevant but there were learning lobbies for as far back as Kayangel. Does suck if that’s happening in EUC but idk how that’s because Ignite is worse or horrible for new players as opposed to JS as a concept. I’m sure there were people on last JS who struggled getting into communities in the game itself, I’m one of them. Fostering in game communities is a core game issue I feel, the JS community I was in I found on Discord for example.
Overall these servers are 100% better than nothing. Ignite is def better than JS in terms of new player progression was, and I think it's a good sign that if they continue to go this route that they will further focus on problem areas.( Like I shit on deep dive, but at least you end up with a full set) Though as far as new player stuff, yeah when I looked at party finder last you could kind of see that a lot of people were probably doing solo raids for sure. Which was always a concern with solo raids from a lot of people, that it further splits up the community. But at the same time I think that is a great environment for people to learn. I will say though yeah, with like afking on Ingite East for like an hour. I saw the same person asking for a Theamine support. I think with all these free taps we got, everyone was just like, hey I'm just going to get a 100 quality DPS weapon or bust. And that lead to even less supports.
Love the marvel music. I’ve played la for two years and quit to come back to ignite. I have a current great guild that gets me into everything but some times I have to pug. I played super casual only missing about 3 skill points and still no los30. So it felt more about my guild carrying me than me ACTUALLY playing and just focusing on wipe mechs. That’s what ultimately led me to quit because I was being gatekept(understandable) but if I wasn’t getting gatekept it just felt like a guild bus where my predator slayer would just lose stacks and not having fun. That was my experience but I love/hate lost ark. There’s a lot of things I love about it but there are things I hate about it that I just can’t recommend it to my friends even with ignite servers. Because even if I transfer a hunger reaper back to the legacy server, wouldn’t I be repeating the same thing that made me quit? And I got no 1620 mains except for ignite so all the breaker and slayers I made, they tell me to just focus on ignite. What about the skins I paid for and now I got to ditch them. Thanks for reading! I am coming back for ignite and just taking it slow
Yeah, another response made a pretty great point which is that Ignite is really good for current players. For new players its still just subpar because it's simply just not enough to get them on their feet. These are good characters to add to an established roster, but to start fresh it's just not great.
Having a guild and friends def carries the game a lot, which is why I think there is actually a pretty big disconnect from current players when talking about new players and their experience. Since they exist in a completely different environment.
But yeah, even as an established player I've decided to take T4 slow myself.
right now my Main is time-gated by honing shards and my 1620 alts are time-jailed by msqs, kenuats fortress, and of course elixers and transcendence. feel like I'm getting my time wasted to hide a lack of content, tier 4 needs more time in the oven
Yeah, that's essentially what time gating is. It exist to buy developers time to create more content.
I really wanna share my experience with this a bit
You talked about how the ignite servers aren't really bringing in new players and I'm gonna be real, I haven't heard a single word about this game ever since I quit one month into release. The reason I'm here now is because I have a friend who still plays and we were talking about the game while raiding in FFXIV. I do believe a big reason ignite servers aren't bringing in new players is because unless you actively consume Lost Ark content or play the game yourself, this game might as well not exist.
Also to add to the conversation of the new player experience... well my experience back on release was awful. Remember a long time ago when I believe Saintone made two videos on Brelshaza? Got lots of attention? Yeah, that's what I wanted to do, that's the reason I had any interest in the game at all. Then the game release, I put in 300 hours into it and I was barely in T3, and I wasn't going to be anywhere near close to doing the first raid when would have dropped. Not only that, I was doing all that arbitrary busywork every single day on three characters, believing in the promise that the game respected my time (something said by yet another content creator). Doing the daily minibosses(I forgot what they're called) was kinda fun, yeah, but as a progression thing, not my entire combat experience. Chaos dungeons are so ass and we had to do it twice on every character back then, and the story of the MSQ was awful. I don't even know if the game has good lore because the storytelling was so painful to sit through.
Talking to that friend I was told about his experience throughout these 2(?) years, the good and the bad, what has changed and what is pretty much the same. He told me about the ignite servers and what they give you, what they don't give you and where that leaves you. He told me about the current state of dailies and realistic expectations of what I'll get and what I'm allowed to play depending on how much time I spend. I'm willing to give the game a try again because I really genuinely want to do the raids, I watched more of them and they look so fun
This game genuinely has to stop gatekeeping people out of the content. It's one thing for content to be really hard and most players can't clear until they improve and get better, I think that's totally valid, but it's absolutely insane that they release content you cannot ever engage with until you clock in to work for half a year
I think a lot of people know of Lost Ark and have heard of it, especially considering how we had over a million concurrent players near launch. But a lot of people I think ran into the walls and deterrents you mentioned. The amount of grinding you have to do to just experience the content is pretty massive and we're at a point in gaming where players have a lot of options and other things they can do with their time. So to just commit to putting time in every day to do your dailies on multiple characters is a rough task for your average person.
The truth is the things that made you run for the hills are a core part of Lost Ark's game design. It is extremely gated like this to do the content and I haven't even gone on to talk about the Gatekeeping and actually doing the content. I think that Solo mode needs to go up to current or this game needs to rethink or add a difficulty that is similar to WoW's Looking For Raid where you mostly need warm bodies and a basic understanding. This game is a casual killer and it shows, since I don't think Ignite brought back many players or brought in new ones.
I think coming back to the game and giving it a shot, I think you should just focus on playing with your friend and hopefully they have an alt they can play with you while you just take the game at your own pace and try to avoid over-alting. Which is really one of the biggest mistakes most of the West has made ( myself included.)
Lastly when it comes to content creators and such, I think it's really a rough situation. Streamers especially, generally enjoy doing those mindless task you and many others dislike. This is often because doing it is not your job like it is theirs. It's laid back content for them to talk to the chat, but for the average player its probably them trying to watch youtube or a movie and just getting their Lost Ark homework done when they can. And I think this is factor to why you see a lot of streamer hate on reddit. People streamer logic and viewpoints don't lineup with their own. Like if I was a streamer myself, hell yeah I would be more fine with doing more dailies. Grinding two jobs at once. But I'm not, and to respect my own time, I've put my own limits on how much I can commit to a game.
Edit : So I should clarify I am not faulting streamers for any of this by any means. I think a major issue is that your average player gets caught up in where the hardcores and streamers are at that they feel its normalized to be x far and spend y time playing etc. People tend to not be realistic with their own time allocation due to their perception on how someone should play the game.
Oh yeah for sure people know the game exists, I meant more like I haven't heard of the game in a really long time, like news have very little reach outside of its audience
When you say casual, what do you mean? Time invested or difficulty of content? I ask because I've had plenty of conversations where ppl just don't agree on what that means.
In my case I personally like doing hard content and really learning the ins and outs of the systems, but then leave when I'm done. I've played FFXIV for years and I engage with the hardest content as soon as it drops and clear it. I also play fighting games and get really deep into those. The thing with both of these is that there aren't really any barriers stopping me from entering the content I want(item level in ffxiv is trivial, fighting game lobbies and ranked are there from the start) and when I reach a point where I'm satisfied I can stop for as long as I want. Next time I'm back I can continue to play the fun part of the game
I'll do what you suggested and play one or two characters max, mostly with that friend, but if that means I'm forever locked out of current endgame then I'll end up quitting again
@@MallowJam I always forget this doesn't show replies as new comments if I've already responded. When I say casual in this context, I actually mean in both regards. As this is a game that is very greedy in your time, and players feel compelled to minmax by making their 6 man roster. But many will overhone a good spot to park an alt because either they think that the gold gain from newer raids will break even and it's a good idea ( it usually isn't ), or they just genuinely enjoy multiple characters. And in either regard people end up with more "mains" at the front lines of endgame or desire more than they can afford.
Additionally the content is also a casual killer in terms of difficulty, as raids have many different points of failure due to patterns and mechanics that a single person messing up can wipe the attempt and waste the entire poll. In a game where this is content people mostly pug, in fear of being caught in a multi hour run of a gate that if one tapped would take 10-20 minutes because one person may be less experienced and can't do the mechanics 10/10 times, players have resorted to very aggressive gatekeeping to mitigate this. Not many people pug content on item level or expect a full party of on item level, and people are pretty much expected to be overhoned in party finder at least.
A new player coming from Ignite will be missing things to get into pug parties. A good cardset, high roster level, probably near item leveling, and missing titles. They might not be high enough level to have a lot of skill points, and they are assumed to be lacking runes. Given a really shitty 40 set elixir and hopefully they got full transcendence unlocked from Theamine in Ingite otherwise goodluck getting it in legacy. Without all of these factors, a new player has the potential to spend hours in party finder without getting accepted. Which is why discords are often encouraged to find learning parties ( Lost Ark LFG, you can find it on Lostark.nexus ).
All this combined makes Lost Ark a very hard game to get into because the amount of dedication to get to the endgame. But most players find the endgame, the combat the raids so enjoyable, so worth it that they cannot look any other game the same or accept them as enough. The combat is just second to none and it carries the tedious painpoints of the game so much.
For me having friends who played was key, as with my main static falling apart around Enchilada really demotivated to be as hardcore with the game. I have other friends who play, but it's rough to lose the static I've spend 2+ years with with some of my better friends being the ones who quit the game and handed me their gear. And the reason the majority quit is because they cannot handle keeping up with this game and maintaining their life outside of it well as F2P. This is a big factor to why I am passionate about the state of the game and topics like this.
so ignited servers are good and all only complaint. Just give every new player on ignited LOS 30. People are making it a minimum now. Change honing up to t4 to silver. Give everyone level 9 gems. Remove old guardians. Allow ignited servers character to be transfered every 4 months. Change thaemine g1 boss xp on ignited to make it easier to clear without sp as their is a sp shortage.
We're getting new card sets so its a chance LOS is even less important moving forward? So more reason to make LOS more accessible imo. And I never talked about gems in the video, but yeah since events can't even be converted I don't think there is much harm in full 9ing the event character.
Not dont give los 30 just get rid of cards, literally just nuke the system.
there aren't that many new players i have seen only a couple of mokokos also the the party finder is still heavily gatekept even in the ignite servers there r no learning lobby so i doubt there r many new players the game needs to change its gatekeeping or it will die eventually
I think there are probably a good amount of them doing solo raids. New players are less likely to bumrush to Theamine. But yeah I do fear that we just don't get enough.
@@Jukwol which is not a good thing they'll all be tier 4 by the end of it there's a gold nerf on the solo raid also they won't be able to do ageir and according to guides that means no ark passive for them as they won't have ancient gear
Too much system bloat and the lack of casual friendly content is holding this game back so much. They designed it for sweats.
Yeah, I was hoping Tier 4 would reduce the amount of systems more than it did. A lot of old stuff just needs to be baked in by now as they keep on introducing new stuff.
You can put as much chocolate syrup on a turd, but it still gonna taste like shit.
The core of the game is just predatory, unjust, unfair, toxic community, rmt, bots, rushed content and much more.
Yeah, that's why I'm an advocate of core changes to the game. It has some great basework and design to it, but a lot of things that deter people from playing.
@@Jukwol well well well forgot to mention exploits and minimum punishments
there is an easy answer. just stop catering to exclusively hardcore people. let people do raids more than once a character and just prevent them from getting rewards for extra runs. i'd happily run learning groups if they let me.
Yeah, a lot of choices are made to keep the hardcore engaged. It comes at the determent to new players and ultimately companies are scared to make the changes in just fear of losing them. I think the game is doing fine enough in other regions that they didn't feel like they needed to pull that trigger, as I'm pretty sure KR at least isn't like the West with this constant bleed out of players.
@@Jukwol Yeah, I wonder how much of that is because of the general gaming culture there and how much of it is because of the pace of development KR got compared to our sped-up version.
Easy? Are you really think this will change anything?
I only see ilimited buss right here
@@tenshifx yeah, the game would actually be fun and social. i'm sure bussing would happen, but there's literally nothing else to do in the game lol. it's boring AF.
Yes let me bus echidna infinitely.